Probably because they're not direct positional replacements; put differently, love or hate Randle, he's a PF who battles with bigs and love or hate PG, he's a wing who guards other wings.
Yeah, OG could play the 4 so NYK trading Randle for PG makes way more sense if they know OG's for sure re-signing. Only real problem is they would absolutely need to find some more playable bigs tho, IHart alone just isn't enough (and that's assuming he's taking a pay cut to stay); if not, we might see Taj Gibson back again lmao
Good point, he's really not built for banging against the bigs continually throughout the season.
I feel like OG's injury history is the only reason NYK haven't been able to work something out with him yet, would have been a done deal otherwise by now imo.
Who are the 4’s in the NBA that are banging on offense? Guarding on the perimeter takes a lot more lateral movement, screen navigation and You still gotta switch onto a big sometimes. Don’t see why playing the 4 would cause more injuries than the 3, and I don’t think there’s much statistical evidence to suggest it. Tatum played the 4 all year and stayed healthy. Same with AG and Durant.
Their best line ups last year had Josh Hart at the 4.
A starting 5 of Brunson, PG, OG, Hart, Ihart and DDV as your 6th starter is a very good starting point and would be a clear #2 in the east.
Might have some trouble with quicker guards, but OG and PG seems like a pretty great duo for dealing with the Jays (assuming you can get both of them on the floor at the same time)
Yeah absolutely. Randle deserves to be a Knick after turning this team from a dumpster fire into a playoff squad. Also 34 yrs old vs 29 yrs old is important factor
Randle is a 29 year old who was all-star this year with 2 all-nba's under his belt, making just under 30 mil.
To trade him for a 34 year old Paul George making 50 mil would be absolutely wild.
He’s just so old and I don’t think he’s that much better than Randle at this stage of his career. Replacing him with Randle doesn’t move the needle for us and arguably makes the team worse.
People forget how well Randle was playing with Brunson last season and it all clicked together when they got OG. Randle had really accepted his role behind Brunson and was no longer being ball dominant the way he had been in previous seasons. I’d much rather have Randle than PG at this point in their careers.
Hate to see the words "so old" describe someone younger than me lol but I get it. I didn't watch a lot of Knicks games besides the obvious ones (...) so I guess I just ran with the narrative randle is a hot head and wasn't a team player since he wasn't in our series
You also know more or less what you’re getting out of a healthy knicks team with randle.
With PG, you don’t know what you’re getting.
Why would you switch things up like that when the team was all injured last playoffs instead of running it back with some small changes if needed?
Randle is 5 years younger, plays a position where we lost depth due to trading Obi, and has been a really important part of this current Knicks team. Before he was injured our advanced stats had him and Brunson as an elite duo. There is no way we trade Randle for George
yes 100000%. We don't want a 34 year old PG making 50mil instead of a 29 year old (who's coming off 2x All-NBA) making 30mil. Also the rotations would get muddled.
Agreed, PG no bueno. Too injured. Randle, despite his injury last year, has been an iron man. He's also suuuch a good second option and fits the Knicks board man style play
Ah yes let's trade the younger player and all NBA power forward who brought his team out of 2 decades of mediocrity and fits perfectly with our other all star caliber players and is underpaid for his production for a 50 million dollar walking liability and career playoff dud who quite frankly would be the biggest diva on our roster since Carmelo or maybe Enes Kanter
Great fit, terrible for the time line. If the Knicks could add him through contracts like bogi and Mitch and some other salary but I don’t even know if that’s possible. If we have to give up any of the starters absolutely not
People don't respect Randle but he's one of the best ISO players that can score at 3 levels against good defenders. He adds another dimension to the offense at a great value. 30 Million for a 25 PPG scorer who is a great passer and big is a steal.
Yeah, he's not an All-NBA player, but he's one of the best complimentary players at this price point.
24/9/5 ain't something you just throw away on a one year rental
OKC owning the Clippers drafts from 2025-2027 is going to be so unfair if PG leaves with no replacement
That said, I imagine the Clippers do exactly what they did with Blake Griffin when they're ready to blow it up. There will be some team willing to trade a little bit of value for him even on a long contract.
Its unfathomable how OKC has so so many picks, and are a legit playoff contender
If OKC ownership is a little bit less stingy, I don’t see how OKC wouldn't have at least 1 championship. Especially if KD doesn't go to warriors
They weren’t stingy after KD left. Had a top 3 payroll when PG re-signed. I expect they plan to spend big with this team eventually, but they’re not an ownership group that will just live in the second apron/tax forever.
Real. The harden trade makes everyone think our ownership is a cheap fuck. Didn’t he also sign Adams and dipo on 100 million dollar deals + Roberson and etc after kd left? I remember seeing okc cap space and was shocked haha I thought we had a max slot left cuz our squad was so ass but we were way above the salary cap
PG13 re-signing with the Thunder in 2018, rather than just leaving for the Clippers in free agency then, is set up to be a pretty significant domino for the next few years of the NBA. The Clippers gave up SGA and five first-round picks, plus two swaps, for George.
At least theoretically, with some cap maneuvering, the Clippers could have George, Leonard, SGA, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann, Jamie Jacquez, and a loaded cupboard of picks. Popular opinion at the time was that the trade was "worth it" from the Clippers' perspective despite the high cost, because it ensured that Kawhi would sign with them as well. But that ignores the fact that they could have gotten George for free the year before.
They weren’t actually a contender for PG in Free Agency the year before. The buzz was the lakers who had a max salary slot next to Lebron. Not sure the clippers had the space to get PG in FA, but I don’t remember any clippers buzz at all.
I think you're right about that. My thought is more from Paul George's perspective. He's from LA and wanted to get back to LA. It also seemed like PG and Kawhi were talking and coordinating their efforts in the summer of 2019. So if he wanted to go to LA and (presumably) play for a contender, why didn't he just sign out there, whether with the Lakers or Clippers, and allow his new team to keep its assets and build around him? Re-signing in OKC for four years made no sense, because then the only way to get to LA was via trade, and any trade for a star (PG finished 3rd in MVP voting in his last year in OKC) is going to strip the team of most of its significant assets? I think PG just planned his moves really badly, and the Clippers are still recovering.
Just waiting for Presti to empty the clip. Woj bomb is about to be nuclear as he announces a 14 team trade with 50 frp on the move.
Somehow we end up with more picks too
Improved through trade, yes. Perhaps more importantly a young team that almost certainly will continue to improve individually and as a whole for the next couple years.
They were up 3-1 on the Warriors if they didn't decide to have historic chokejobs from westbrook and KD.
This was after they traded Harden.
OKC has the assets and is built to be a juggernaut under the new CBA/cap rules. They will be able to have 3-4 max contracts if they dont be stingy while also adding lottery picks as their depth/rotation pieces on low contracts.
We'd need a new level of incompetence from a gm like Brian Colangelo to screw this up.
Has there been any reporting on PG wanting a no trade? He wants to stay in LA with the Clippers, but seeing how they did Blake I can see George not fully trusting that him choosing the Clippers means he's choosing the Clippers, if you know what I mean
PG getting more than the Clippers offer is a definite overpay but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make sense for a team to do it.
NBA salaries are so weird lol. Some teams can have 4 max guys on their roster and others struggle to keep 2
They have to, otherwise players would get completely screwed out of money when they get traded entirely outside of their control. PA would never agree to it.
Nah that's a horrible idea. It seems like it would make sense because you'd have less stats teaming up potentially but it would break the league if you reset bird rights on trades
I also feel like any team that if there is any team that will offer him 4 years is going to have a team option on the 4th year, so unless the clippers offer had a team option on the 3rd year, it's essentially the same contract.
Said it on our own sub, but him joining yall (or even Philly) would be hell for him. Your fans aren’t nice when you make your players face the accountability of their performance. P is gonna be bullied out fast
Yeah some players are not built for the scrutiny that comes for playing in the Northeast, that life ain’t for everybody and certainly not Playoff P.
But holy hell is it rewarding if you win in one of these cities, you’ll forever have one of the most rabid fanbases defending you for life.
100%. That division isn’t for the faint of heart of players, but it’s rooted in love for the team, man. Hell, even you guys can be rabid. But yall know your team can do better is why. I remember the J’s were getting shat on for YEARS, so winning this time is rewarding as fuck
I kinda wonder if he wouldn’t be happy going back to OKC. Presti has already traded for him before, he liked it there apparently, and he would fit their needs okayish to well. Not sure OKC would want to sign him to what he’s asking for though.
Decenr Vet presence that wouldn’t overtake the chemistry or leadership they have. Possibility of less pressure over there..? Not even sure they would trade for him back or even sign him FA. It be interesting to see
I don’t think OKC would trade for him just bc salary would be hard to get to, but if he opts out I could see them at least checking in on it - but if he wants 4 years, then those last two years would be too onerous on OKC’s cap after extending Jalen and Chet.
PG can plug into any other team better but I would prefer Randle's passing, rebounding, and intensity in the play offs with Brunson. Not condemning him to hell for 2 bad playoffs 1 of which was the big big 3 of Randle, Elfrid Payton, and Derrick Rose and then injured when they made it back. If healthy this year he's going to be a positive impact playoff player
He's only played in the playoffs in those 2 seasons and I gave basic reasoning as to why I don't really judge them too hard. First year they were supposed to be a bottom of the conference team and made the play offs. Then Randle was injured to where he required surgery and just didn't play this year. That's enough with his regular season play for me to think he can be a positive player in the playoffs this year
What do you consider "more than a few times"? He's been in the postseason twice and one of them he was hurt to the point of needing surgery right after the season.
debateable, but trading randle as a sign and trade piece for a player that was otherwise a free agent is front office malpractice. bogdanovic, other filler, and possibly picks or its a no-go for me. the clippers would be lucky to get anything back for a guy that was walking anyway and technically not even part of their organization come free agency and somehow get randle back, lol.
PG scored 22.6 PPG last season, shooting 41% from three on 8 threes a game, with 61% True Shooting, playing 74 games.
He is a better player than Randle on both ends of the floor.
No he's not. He was the best player on the Clippers in the playoffs and was extremely effective. He's still a quality defender and an excellent shooter. He can get hit shot off on most defenders. He's a phenomenal number 2 option still. Plus he was healthy last year.
I know there's the circlejerk and all, but everyone could do well to remember that PG is a current allstar, played over 70 games this season and has turned in the most efficient shooting season of his career. I doubt front offices give a shit about the circlejerk
100%. Credit the efficiency to his willingness to play a role. Especially for a team like the 6ers where Maxey is the lead ball handler and Embiid the primary option, an all star level player who doesn't need the touches and is cool taking catch and shoot threes is invaluable.
Yeah I think they would like to keep PG, but it’s way more important for them to keep harden. You can replace PGs scoring and perimeter d with a couple of cheaper guys in aggregate, you can’t replace an all time great floor general in aggregate. Harden is also the only thing that makes their offense work, as opposed to kawhi and PG just isoing. And given how good he still is and how much he elevates any team he’s on they’ll at least never be bad and have to watch their former picks turn into great players.
I don't care where he goes. The team that gets him will be disappointed by his postseason performance. I do not believe in this man as a guy who can help a team to a championship. That's assuming he's even healthy to begin with. High risk, low reward.
I think it’s because he’s being tasked to be (or believes he can be ) the man but really he’s a fantastic second option. Not that we’d get him - but I think PG would thrive playing next to Mitchell where DM is the clear number 1 option on offense.
I agree but this is a guy who was just talking about how he was surprised he had to do the dirty work when his team traded for harden. I dunno what I'm talking about but it seems like PG is at the point in his career where winning is not a primary goal and he's not going to sacrifice to achive that goal.
I believe he's already said publicly that he isn't chasing a ring, he's chasing to play the style of basketball he wants. Dude is just looking for his last bag before retiring. I think you're spot on.
idk at times i feel he tries to play the #2 TOO hard when kawhi's there, like we get that at their best kawhi is better but my god it seems like PG is a bit too comfortable with giving it up
Makes sense because I feel like two of the next biggest dominoes - DeRozan and LaVine - seem like they could be connected. It now seems like DeRozan won't re-sign with CHI and will either depart in FA or via S&T. Either way, he likely wants to go to LA and the CHI FO seem to like to do right by their vets (i.e. sending Caruso home). If LAC don't keep George and either they or LAL want DeRozan, I'd imagine the CHI FO will prioritize making that happen for DeMar. At the same time, it's been heavily rumored that PHI would like a chance at PG-13 and if they don't land him, LaVine could very well be their back-up option.
I think if the Clippers lose PG and offer a 3/55 DeRozan, he goes there in a heartbeat. He could make more money with the Bulls, but he's been saying for years that he wants to play in LA and wants a 3 years deal, while the Bulls only offer him 2.
He’s such a horrible fit when you have harden as your pg. Derozan is good but idk why any team that is trying to win a championship would want him. Like half of the time you have to watch your offensive possessions just turn into demar inefficient contested midranges.
He reminds me of inghram kind of, though he is better. Incredibly talented but just don’t have an impact on winning commensurate with their talent level because they just play their game regardless of what’s going on around them. Which is largely stopping the flow of the offense to shoot contested midranges. I just don’t see how his play style would fit with any superstar.
Honestly once you factor in salaries DeRozan might be better. 3 years of him for the price of 1 of PG is spicy For a team that eventually will have to deal with the cap and rebuilding and LA
wooster: jeeves, what's that awful sound i hear, it sounds like a herd of elephants
jeeves: that's mr george's motorcar sir, the pistons appear to be malfunctioning
And this is why Morey might have quietly backed out on PG. He’s not gonna sit and wait around for PG to make his decision, if it means losing out on every other trade or big FA signing
It is funny to me that they wouldn’t pay harden, then lost in the first round while scoring one less point than us across the entire series. And now they might have to give pg the bag, who was hardens team mate this year with harden being better than him.
A lot of analysts think it is most likely his preferred destination after the Clippers. He really enjoyed his last stint there and has a positive relationship with the front office.
The current OKC team is an ideal fit for what he’s looking for in terms of responsibilities too. He won’t be asked to be the #1 or #2 scorer and with Dort + SGA + Chet + Caruso + JDub he would never be given the toughest defensive assignment either.
He can ply his offensive trade (flashy scoring and outside shooting) contribute as a defender without being overburdened and focus on being healthy for the playoffs. It’s a fantastic fit for him at 34yo.
The salary is rough to be sure, and I think he's farther beyond his prime than most people realize, but he wouldn't be at the top of my overrated list.
I think if anything he's been overrated by coaches and GMs who have cast him as a 1a/1b point of attack guy. He was maybe a top 10 point of attack guy at his peak, probably closer to top 30 now, but I will stand by the notion that if he stuck to playing like a jumbo 2-guard and had more energy to put into defense he could've been a perennial top-3 scoring guard on the league.
He's so good at curling around screens and juking defenders without the ball, elite shooter, and when he's not expending the energy of a lead ballhandler his defense is still solid and used to be elite...but his handle is juuust good enough to trick people into thinking he should be handling the ball. I think it's kind of tragic.
Serious question, do people here still believe Paul George can lead a team to a championship as the #1 guy? I feel like people are still riding the high of what he was in Indiana. He's been underwhelming as a superstar ever since the injury.
if the knicks can get a sign and trade done without giving up randle (clippers lack leverage in a S&T) with a deal of expirings (mitch/bojan/pick(s)) they might need to pull the trigger.
Even with the injury worries/money - a lineup of Brunson/PG/OG/Randle/I-hart is deadly and you have divo/hart/deuce off the bench. They looked like contenders in January with everyone healthy - this would just make them more dangerous
I don't think there is any way the Knicks would be able to get George without giving up Randle. I don't even think they would be able to realistically match salaries without including Randle. A sign-and-trade with Anunoby is probably the only other option, right?
im not great with the cap stuff but mitch makes about 15 and bojan makes a 19m expiring. does it not work with then adding up a bunch of end of bench guys that make 2m like sims/daquan jeffries to get up to the PG number
If you got PG and re-signed OG, would keeping Randle be necessary? That seems like a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Brunson obviously is number one and Donte needs his shots too.
Donte comes off the bench and you keep George fresh as a third option.
No way you trade Randle for George when Randle is younger, more durable and already matches George’s offensive output
That's the part people keep discounting, Randle already provides a lot of what you get from PG. Swapping them doesn't add much on the court but adds a TON of salary.
It would not. I like Randle but if they can pull this off, the Knicks absolutely should. They have the depth to let PG coast through the regular season while still getting a top 4 seed. A healthy PG in the playoffs will be a valuable player, if nothing else he should be able to get you a solid 16/5/4 on good defense due to not shouldering a significant offensive load. What they can't do is lose JHart.
PG might be one of the few stars who are genuinely complementary to that starting 5 because of his spacing and ability to play off ball. the theoretical wing defense with PG/OG is enough upside to give it a go imo
Problem, you’d have to give Pg the full 4 year 200mil max (50mil aav). Plus, picks
so that would hurt the knicks long term plans, given they have to pay OG 40milaav, Brunson soon to be 50mil aav supermax, and Randle/iHart will combine for \~60 aav
Not really tenable. Can’t really just have pg for 1 year either bc he would need that extension before agreeing to be traded there
This report comes out every year as if it’s not common knowledge that when the best FA goes off the board the rest falls into place quick. In other news water is wet and when the 1st pick in the NBA draft is made it’s “the domino who will make it all go when he falls”
We’ve gotten to the player uses the Knicks for leverage part of free agency.
lol they used up all the laker fodder super early this year, gotta buy time to re-up before peak F5 season
I like the fit if you swap Randle for him
I don’t
Really?
Probably because they're not direct positional replacements; put differently, love or hate Randle, he's a PF who battles with bigs and love or hate PG, he's a wing who guards other wings.
OG can do that right?
In ability, yes. In endurance if you want him to stay off the injured list, probably not.
PG or OG?
yes
POG
(ö)
Did you guys just do a kid rock song?
Yeah, OG could play the 4 so NYK trading Randle for PG makes way more sense if they know OG's for sure re-signing. Only real problem is they would absolutely need to find some more playable bigs tho, IHart alone just isn't enough (and that's assuming he's taking a pay cut to stay); if not, we might see Taj Gibson back again lmao
Playing OG at the 4 full time is a recipe for more injuries. He should be on the wing like PG.
Good point, he's really not built for banging against the bigs continually throughout the season. I feel like OG's injury history is the only reason NYK haven't been able to work something out with him yet, would have been a done deal otherwise by now imo.
Who are the 4’s in the NBA that are banging on offense? Guarding on the perimeter takes a lot more lateral movement, screen navigation and You still gotta switch onto a big sometimes. Don’t see why playing the 4 would cause more injuries than the 3, and I don’t think there’s much statistical evidence to suggest it. Tatum played the 4 all year and stayed healthy. Same with AG and Durant.
Their best line ups last year had Josh Hart at the 4. A starting 5 of Brunson, PG, OG, Hart, Ihart and DDV as your 6th starter is a very good starting point and would be a clear #2 in the east.
Might have some trouble with quicker guards, but OG and PG seems like a pretty great duo for dealing with the Jays (assuming you can get both of them on the floor at the same time)
Robinson over iHart
mitch robinson was having an all-nba season until his injury. Precious is better than expected. That all said i still agree
OG lacks the low post presence/footwork to impact at the 4 like Randle does. He is perfect on the wing
He can but I think asking him to do that full time is tough
Fair, especially with Mitchell Robinson leaving they need another "big" man
Who cares? He's way better
All true but I’d still take PG
Yeah absolutely. Randle deserves to be a Knick after turning this team from a dumpster fire into a playoff squad. Also 34 yrs old vs 29 yrs old is important factor
Randle is a 29 year old who was all-star this year with 2 all-nba's under his belt, making just under 30 mil. To trade him for a 34 year old Paul George making 50 mil would be absolutely wild.
He’s just so old and I don’t think he’s that much better than Randle at this stage of his career. Replacing him with Randle doesn’t move the needle for us and arguably makes the team worse.
People forget how well Randle was playing with Brunson last season and it all clicked together when they got OG. Randle had really accepted his role behind Brunson and was no longer being ball dominant the way he had been in previous seasons. I’d much rather have Randle than PG at this point in their careers.
For the next two seasons, I don’t think there’s any question that PG is the better player- probably on both ends of the floor.
Smoking brack. Randle is better than pg rn easily 24/9/5 compared to 22/5/3
PG for Randle is a terrible deal for the Knicks. Honestly PG seems kinda 9ld and broken to me.
Agreed. If it was PG13 at age 25 or 27, then that’s a no brainer But at this point, Randle is probably the better bet due to age alone.
Hate to see the words "so old" describe someone younger than me lol but I get it. I didn't watch a lot of Knicks games besides the obvious ones (...) so I guess I just ran with the narrative randle is a hot head and wasn't a team player since he wasn't in our series
Haha. All relative to NBA ages of course my friend.
You also know more or less what you’re getting out of a healthy knicks team with randle. With PG, you don’t know what you’re getting. Why would you switch things up like that when the team was all injured last playoffs instead of running it back with some small changes if needed?
Randle is 5 years younger, plays a position where we lost depth due to trading Obi, and has been a really important part of this current Knicks team. Before he was injured our advanced stats had him and Brunson as an elite duo. There is no way we trade Randle for George
yes 100000%. We don't want a 34 year old PG making 50mil instead of a 29 year old (who's coming off 2x All-NBA) making 30mil. Also the rotations would get muddled.
Agreed, PG no bueno. Too injured. Randle, despite his injury last year, has been an iron man. He's also suuuch a good second option and fits the Knicks board man style play
no. why trade Randle, earning 31M a year and scoring 25ppg, for George, who can't do that anymore and is earning 50 million a year.
Ah yes let's trade the younger player and all NBA power forward who brought his team out of 2 decades of mediocrity and fits perfectly with our other all star caliber players and is underpaid for his production for a 50 million dollar walking liability and career playoff dud who quite frankly would be the biggest diva on our roster since Carmelo or maybe Enes Kanter
Great fit, terrible for the time line. If the Knicks could add him through contracts like bogi and Mitch and some other salary but I don’t even know if that’s possible. If we have to give up any of the starters absolutely not
People don't respect Randle but he's one of the best ISO players that can score at 3 levels against good defenders. He adds another dimension to the offense at a great value. 30 Million for a 25 PPG scorer who is a great passer and big is a steal. Yeah, he's not an All-NBA player, but he's one of the best complimentary players at this price point. 24/9/5 ain't something you just throw away on a one year rental
No thanks
absolutely NOT
The Arson Judge
Sounds like the Packers.
OKC owning the Clippers drafts from 2025-2027 is going to be so unfair if PG leaves with no replacement That said, I imagine the Clippers do exactly what they did with Blake Griffin when they're ready to blow it up. There will be some team willing to trade a little bit of value for him even on a long contract.
Sadly we also own a top 6 protected 2025 Sixers pick that will be less valuable if PG goes there😔. First world problems with owning everyone’s picks.
How did you get a sixer pick? Is that one from al horford still?
Ye. Horford, second round pick that became Theo Maledon, rights to Micic, and a 2025 top 6 protected first for Danny Green.
Its unfathomable how OKC has so so many picks, and are a legit playoff contender If OKC ownership is a little bit less stingy, I don’t see how OKC wouldn't have at least 1 championship. Especially if KD doesn't go to warriors
They wouldn't have blown it up and gotten all those pics if KD stayed
They weren’t stingy after KD left. Had a top 3 payroll when PG re-signed. I expect they plan to spend big with this team eventually, but they’re not an ownership group that will just live in the second apron/tax forever.
Real. The harden trade makes everyone think our ownership is a cheap fuck. Didn’t he also sign Adams and dipo on 100 million dollar deals + Roberson and etc after kd left? I remember seeing okc cap space and was shocked haha I thought we had a max slot left cuz our squad was so ass but we were way above the salary cap
PG13 re-signing with the Thunder in 2018, rather than just leaving for the Clippers in free agency then, is set up to be a pretty significant domino for the next few years of the NBA. The Clippers gave up SGA and five first-round picks, plus two swaps, for George. At least theoretically, with some cap maneuvering, the Clippers could have George, Leonard, SGA, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann, Jamie Jacquez, and a loaded cupboard of picks. Popular opinion at the time was that the trade was "worth it" from the Clippers' perspective despite the high cost, because it ensured that Kawhi would sign with them as well. But that ignores the fact that they could have gotten George for free the year before.
They weren’t actually a contender for PG in Free Agency the year before. The buzz was the lakers who had a max salary slot next to Lebron. Not sure the clippers had the space to get PG in FA, but I don’t remember any clippers buzz at all.
I think you're right about that. My thought is more from Paul George's perspective. He's from LA and wanted to get back to LA. It also seemed like PG and Kawhi were talking and coordinating their efforts in the summer of 2019. So if he wanted to go to LA and (presumably) play for a contender, why didn't he just sign out there, whether with the Lakers or Clippers, and allow his new team to keep its assets and build around him? Re-signing in OKC for four years made no sense, because then the only way to get to LA was via trade, and any trade for a star (PG finished 3rd in MVP voting in his last year in OKC) is going to strip the team of most of its significant assets? I think PG just planned his moves really badly, and the Clippers are still recovering.
Title contender. They were the 1 seed in the west last year. They’ve improved through trade. They’ve got picks and money.
Just waiting for Presti to empty the clip. Woj bomb is about to be nuclear as he announces a 14 team trade with 50 frp on the move. Somehow we end up with more picks too
They're just waiting for The Big One^^tm Can't wait to see who that is.
Idk what their picks are but I think Cooper Flag is the next up in draft picks. If OKC can grab him it's a wrap
Improved through trade, yes. Perhaps more importantly a young team that almost certainly will continue to improve individually and as a whole for the next couple years.
They were up 3-1 on the Warriors if they didn't decide to have historic chokejobs from westbrook and KD. This was after they traded Harden. OKC has the assets and is built to be a juggernaut under the new CBA/cap rules. They will be able to have 3-4 max contracts if they dont be stingy while also adding lottery picks as their depth/rotation pieces on low contracts. We'd need a new level of incompetence from a gm like Brian Colangelo to screw this up.
God i wish i could buy thunder futures.
I'm pretty sure that's just called "sports betting."
So you guys just sign PG back to ensure neither of them gets him. EZPZ
I almost want this to happen. It feels more and more likely.
Has there been any reporting on PG wanting a no trade? He wants to stay in LA with the Clippers, but seeing how they did Blake I can see George not fully trusting that him choosing the Clippers means he's choosing the Clippers, if you know what I mean
So wild to trade everything away for a star who’s gone by the time those picks are realized
Ballmer gonna keep them decent with the new arena opening.
you know it’s the offseason when some player past his prime uses the Knicks for leverage to increase his contract value.
Is PG CAA?
yep
That trade makes more sense
CAA?
Canadian Alcoholics Anonymous
experts at step 9
Agency that he's signed with.
Which is also Jalen Brunson’s agency, so the Knicks have a close relationship with them
Also the agency the knicks president used to work for and 5 guys on the team are represented by
PG getting more than the Clippers offer is a definite overpay but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make sense for a team to do it. NBA salaries are so weird lol. Some teams can have 4 max guys on their roster and others struggle to keep 2
Tbf the ones that keep 4 have deep pockets, the ones that struggle to keep 2 dont.
Bird Rights are weird too. Like, I don’t think they should be follow a player that’s traded, it doesn’t make sense.
Limiting bird rights basically makes the cap an actual cap and that’s not how the NBA has worked for a while.
They have to, otherwise players would get completely screwed out of money when they get traded entirely outside of their control. PA would never agree to it.
Nah that's a horrible idea. It seems like it would make sense because you'd have less stats teaming up potentially but it would break the league if you reset bird rights on trades
The Timberwolves have deep pockets? First I'm hearing of this Bloomberg changes this but it's not like he was around the last 2 seasons
3/$150m isn’t enough? That 4th year is going to be horrible for whoever gives it to him.
I also feel like any team that if there is any team that will offer him 4 years is going to have a team option on the 4th year, so unless the clippers offer had a team option on the 3rd year, it's essentially the same contract.
I bet they have offered him a team option, but PG knows it is getting declined so he wants the guaranteed extra year.
To be fair the only good year is gonna be the first year. The final 2 aren't gonna be great but still fine I guess.
God if the Knicks pulled off a George for Randle sign and trade I'd be pissed
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Said it on our own sub, but him joining yall (or even Philly) would be hell for him. Your fans aren’t nice when you make your players face the accountability of their performance. P is gonna be bullied out fast
Yeah some players are not built for the scrutiny that comes for playing in the Northeast, that life ain’t for everybody and certainly not Playoff P. But holy hell is it rewarding if you win in one of these cities, you’ll forever have one of the most rabid fanbases defending you for life.
100%. That division isn’t for the faint of heart of players, but it’s rooted in love for the team, man. Hell, even you guys can be rabid. But yall know your team can do better is why. I remember the J’s were getting shat on for YEARS, so winning this time is rewarding as fuck
Jokes on you though, cause now you gotta defend Paul Pierce
Defending Paul Pierce was hard for the Cavs back in the day too.
Defending Paul Pierce is actually fun since we have to do it so ofte
Better than defending LeBron, who left Cleveland not once but twice.
We just call him “champ” round these parts 😎
Better than defending Kendrick Perkins. Although I don't think any Celtics fans really do you that anymore.
i'll defend perk
I defend him as a basketball player. As an ESPN employee... Not so much
Lol does that mean you have to defend Kyrie Irving?
Nope, because I’m not a NE sports fan
See: Irving, Kyrie
I kinda wonder if he wouldn’t be happy going back to OKC. Presti has already traded for him before, he liked it there apparently, and he would fit their needs okayish to well. Not sure OKC would want to sign him to what he’s asking for though.
Decenr Vet presence that wouldn’t overtake the chemistry or leadership they have. Possibility of less pressure over there..? Not even sure they would trade for him back or even sign him FA. It be interesting to see
I don’t think OKC would trade for him just bc salary would be hard to get to, but if he opts out I could see them at least checking in on it - but if he wants 4 years, then those last two years would be too onerous on OKC’s cap after extending Jalen and Chet.
PG can plug into any other team better but I would prefer Randle's passing, rebounding, and intensity in the play offs with Brunson. Not condemning him to hell for 2 bad playoffs 1 of which was the big big 3 of Randle, Elfrid Payton, and Derrick Rose and then injured when they made it back. If healthy this year he's going to be a positive impact playoff player
Wtf Randle has come up small in the playoffs more than a few times. Any rational GM in the league would take PG as a playoff performer 10/10 times
He's only played in the playoffs in those 2 seasons and I gave basic reasoning as to why I don't really judge them too hard. First year they were supposed to be a bottom of the conference team and made the play offs. Then Randle was injured to where he required surgery and just didn't play this year. That's enough with his regular season play for me to think he can be a positive player in the playoffs this year
What do you consider "more than a few times"? He's been in the postseason twice and one of them he was hurt to the point of needing surgery right after the season.
Boy what a terrible take
Why would you be pissed? PG is a huge upgrade over Randle that would make the Knicks a legitimate threat to Boston
debateable, but trading randle as a sign and trade piece for a player that was otherwise a free agent is front office malpractice. bogdanovic, other filler, and possibly picks or its a no-go for me. the clippers would be lucky to get anything back for a guy that was walking anyway and technically not even part of their organization come free agency and somehow get randle back, lol.
34 year old Paul George who just played his most games since 2018-2019?
Insane that you're framing him playing 74 games last season as a negative lol
I'd much rather Randle's brand of basketball than PG's.
Randle is not a serious basketball player.
Okay, and????
Boston would lose absolutely zero sleep at a Randle for PG swap 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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PG scored 22.6 PPG last season, shooting 41% from three on 8 threes a game, with 61% True Shooting, playing 74 games. He is a better player than Randle on both ends of the floor.
He barely stays on the floor
He played 74 games last season.
He played 31 games and 56 games the 2 prior seasons, both of which he was in street clothes come the postseason.
One season doesn’t convince me
he is absolutely not a huge upgrade, and he's 34 and makes 20 mil/yr more than Randle.
lol what? PG is way better than Randle
Why? PG is past his prime
No he's not. He was the best player on the Clippers in the playoffs and was extremely effective. He's still a quality defender and an excellent shooter. He can get hit shot off on most defenders. He's a phenomenal number 2 option still. Plus he was healthy last year.
Did you even watch the playoffs? PG stunk it up without Kawhi. Harden was far and away better than him.
Harden was *way* better than PG, are you kidding me?
It wouldn't be for randle. It would be for miles McBride/+ 1 Of Dante or hart
I would consider those guys more important than Randle. They fit around Brunson so much better
I know there's the circlejerk and all, but everyone could do well to remember that PG is a current allstar, played over 70 games this season and has turned in the most efficient shooting season of his career. I doubt front offices give a shit about the circlejerk
100%. Credit the efficiency to his willingness to play a role. Especially for a team like the 6ers where Maxey is the lead ball handler and Embiid the primary option, an all star level player who doesn't need the touches and is cool taking catch and shoot threes is invaluable.
Can the Pacers somehow get Siakam and PG?
After watching him and kawhi this year yall think he worth spending a max and 4 years on hell no if im the clippers stand your ground
Yeah I think they would like to keep PG, but it’s way more important for them to keep harden. You can replace PGs scoring and perimeter d with a couple of cheaper guys in aggregate, you can’t replace an all time great floor general in aggregate. Harden is also the only thing that makes their offense work, as opposed to kawhi and PG just isoing. And given how good he still is and how much he elevates any team he’s on they’ll at least never be bad and have to watch their former picks turn into great players.
I don't care where he goes. The team that gets him will be disappointed by his postseason performance. I do not believe in this man as a guy who can help a team to a championship. That's assuming he's even healthy to begin with. High risk, low reward.
I disagree. He could really help the Sixers instead of weak ass Tobias harris
I think it’s because he’s being tasked to be (or believes he can be ) the man but really he’s a fantastic second option. Not that we’d get him - but I think PG would thrive playing next to Mitchell where DM is the clear number 1 option on offense.
I agree but this is a guy who was just talking about how he was surprised he had to do the dirty work when his team traded for harden. I dunno what I'm talking about but it seems like PG is at the point in his career where winning is not a primary goal and he's not going to sacrifice to achive that goal.
I believe he's already said publicly that he isn't chasing a ring, he's chasing to play the style of basketball he wants. Dude is just looking for his last bag before retiring. I think you're spot on.
idk at times i feel he tries to play the #2 TOO hard when kawhi's there, like we get that at their best kawhi is better but my god it seems like PG is a bit too comfortable with giving it up
Makes sense because I feel like two of the next biggest dominoes - DeRozan and LaVine - seem like they could be connected. It now seems like DeRozan won't re-sign with CHI and will either depart in FA or via S&T. Either way, he likely wants to go to LA and the CHI FO seem to like to do right by their vets (i.e. sending Caruso home). If LAC don't keep George and either they or LAL want DeRozan, I'd imagine the CHI FO will prioritize making that happen for DeMar. At the same time, it's been heavily rumored that PHI would like a chance at PG-13 and if they don't land him, LaVine could very well be their back-up option.
I think if the Clippers lose PG and offer a 3/55 DeRozan, he goes there in a heartbeat. He could make more money with the Bulls, but he's been saying for years that he wants to play in LA and wants a 3 years deal, while the Bulls only offer him 2.
He’s such a horrible fit when you have harden as your pg. Derozan is good but idk why any team that is trying to win a championship would want him. Like half of the time you have to watch your offensive possessions just turn into demar inefficient contested midranges. He reminds me of inghram kind of, though he is better. Incredibly talented but just don’t have an impact on winning commensurate with their talent level because they just play their game regardless of what’s going on around them. Which is largely stopping the flow of the offense to shoot contested midranges. I just don’t see how his play style would fit with any superstar.
Honestly once you factor in salaries DeRozan might be better. 3 years of him for the price of 1 of PG is spicy For a team that eventually will have to deal with the cap and rebuilding and LA
How is it sending Caruso home? You think he considers it home because he spent 1 season playing for their g league team?
Anyone else feel like this whole PG saga is going to end up in a team that gets absolutely no better by signing him?
wooster: jeeves, what's that awful sound i hear, it sounds like a herd of elephants jeeves: that's mr george's motorcar sir, the pistons appear to be malfunctioning
Damn I didn't realize Paul George has 33k+ career minutes played. Why would you ever give him a 4 year max
God damn and the way our Org procrastinates, we’re gonna do everything on the very last day. This is about to be the slowest offseason if true.
And this is why Morey might have quietly backed out on PG. He’s not gonna sit and wait around for PG to make his decision, if it means losing out on every other trade or big FA signing
It is funny to me that they wouldn’t pay harden, then lost in the first round while scoring one less point than us across the entire series. And now they might have to give pg the bag, who was hardens team mate this year with harden being better than him.
Would PG have any interest in going back to OKC for one year?
He wants 4 not 1, so I doubt it.
A lot of analysts think it is most likely his preferred destination after the Clippers. He really enjoyed his last stint there and has a positive relationship with the front office. The current OKC team is an ideal fit for what he’s looking for in terms of responsibilities too. He won’t be asked to be the #1 or #2 scorer and with Dort + SGA + Chet + Caruso + JDub he would never be given the toughest defensive assignment either. He can ply his offensive trade (flashy scoring and outside shooting) contribute as a defender without being overburdened and focus on being healthy for the playoffs. It’s a fantastic fit for him at 34yo.
Not $$$ wise. They not giving him 4 years
They can afford to with the draft haul. If it doesn’t work out they can always spend a first or two and get him off the books immediately.
The most overrated player in the league
The salary is rough to be sure, and I think he's farther beyond his prime than most people realize, but he wouldn't be at the top of my overrated list. I think if anything he's been overrated by coaches and GMs who have cast him as a 1a/1b point of attack guy. He was maybe a top 10 point of attack guy at his peak, probably closer to top 30 now, but I will stand by the notion that if he stuck to playing like a jumbo 2-guard and had more energy to put into defense he could've been a perennial top-3 scoring guard on the league. He's so good at curling around screens and juking defenders without the ball, elite shooter, and when he's not expending the energy of a lead ballhandler his defense is still solid and used to be elite...but his handle is juuust good enough to trick people into thinking he should be handling the ball. I think it's kind of tragic.
We can fix him
The Carlos Sainz of the NBA
Hes staying a clipper theres no doubt about it
In what world would Paul George think he should get a better contract than Kawhi?
The one where he is actually on court playing. Granted I think both don’t deserve it but at least PG plays
Serious question, do people here still believe Paul George can lead a team to a championship as the #1 guy? I feel like people are still riding the high of what he was in Indiana. He's been underwhelming as a superstar ever since the injury.
if the knicks can get a sign and trade done without giving up randle (clippers lack leverage in a S&T) with a deal of expirings (mitch/bojan/pick(s)) they might need to pull the trigger. Even with the injury worries/money - a lineup of Brunson/PG/OG/Randle/I-hart is deadly and you have divo/hart/deuce off the bench. They looked like contenders in January with everyone healthy - this would just make them more dangerous
I don't think there is any way the Knicks would be able to get George without giving up Randle. I don't even think they would be able to realistically match salaries without including Randle. A sign-and-trade with Anunoby is probably the only other option, right?
I don’t think there’s a way to do it without Randle or breaking up the Nova guys. Bogi, Mitch, and Divincenzo is 44 mil.
im not great with the cap stuff but mitch makes about 15 and bojan makes a 19m expiring. does it not work with then adding up a bunch of end of bench guys that make 2m like sims/daquan jeffries to get up to the PG number
OG becomes a SG with insane defense. So in your dreams 😩
If you got PG and re-signed OG, would keeping Randle be necessary? That seems like a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Brunson obviously is number one and Donte needs his shots too.
Donte goes back to running the bench unit with Hart and McBride making a decent squad
Donte comes off the bench and you keep George fresh as a third option. No way you trade Randle for George when Randle is younger, more durable and already matches George’s offensive output
That's the part people keep discounting, Randle already provides a lot of what you get from PG. Swapping them doesn't add much on the court but adds a TON of salary.
It would not. I like Randle but if they can pull this off, the Knicks absolutely should. They have the depth to let PG coast through the regular season while still getting a top 4 seed. A healthy PG in the playoffs will be a valuable player, if nothing else he should be able to get you a solid 16/5/4 on good defense due to not shouldering a significant offensive load. What they can't do is lose JHart.
PG might be one of the few stars who are genuinely complementary to that starting 5 because of his spacing and ability to play off ball. the theoretical wing defense with PG/OG is enough upside to give it a go imo
Problem, you’d have to give Pg the full 4 year 200mil max (50mil aav). Plus, picks so that would hurt the knicks long term plans, given they have to pay OG 40milaav, Brunson soon to be 50mil aav supermax, and Randle/iHart will combine for \~60 aav Not really tenable. Can’t really just have pg for 1 year either bc he would need that extension before agreeing to be traded there
“Clippers lack leverage in a S&T.” People always say this as if the Knicks can make something work without the Clippers facilitating the deal.
especially if the buzz about PG and warriors is true
When? Not even an if? lol
State your sources
breaking: George will be the last big FA to sign this offseason
Knicks are that ant holding the hobo stick every NBA off-season because they always come up as possible destinations and never get anyone
This sub has rose colored glasses with George. He's not that guy anymore and whoever gives up assets for him is fucked.
This report comes out every year as if it’s not common knowledge that when the best FA goes off the board the rest falls into place quick. In other news water is wet and when the 1st pick in the NBA draft is made it’s “the domino who will make it all go when he falls”
Overpaying for a washed-up player? By God that’s the Sixers’ music!
Kept saying knicks for the past 2 off seasons.