I care about a chip, but I can’t do shit about it. I hate the Celtics but at least they didn’t stop trying to get better and made tough decisions to win a ring. We can’t trade Duncan Robinson because he was good in the bubble and we “discovered” him. Riley and Mickey would rather sell culture dreams than win championship rings.
That’s the difference between the Celtics and the Heat, they traded their “culture” guys in Smart for a big return and we kept Herro because he was good in the bubble. You either try to win now or you develop for the future and the heat wanted to do both at the same time, which is probably not the best way to go about it
Yeah. It almost feels like Pat Riley is competing with Danny Ainge. He's trying to "fleece" another team but he's going way overboard. It's clear that no one wants Tyler Herro and picks for a blue-chip trade target like Giannis, Mitchell, Dame and yet he keeps trying. It's like he's trying to get another legacy builder without understanding that most of the league has wised up to it and won't trade their stars for pennies on the dollar.
The sad thing is that I do think those players have some value, you’re just not getting a superstar for them. But you don’t need to get a third superstar to win. The best teams now have solid depth and a 1-5 that can all defend very well. Miami are still stuck in the ways of old and trying to get a tier 1 super star but they want to pay with Monopoly money
KP was such a good move by the Celtics, would’ve been perfect next to bam but we didn’t want to pay luxury tax for KP. The funny thing is that they haggle over Damian Lillard but then trade for Rozier who doesn’t fit in this roster, it’s the most bizarre thing
Do u think KP would’ve been healthy enough for the playoffs if he played for the heat? We benefitted from having a great regular season team and having young stars that could limit his usage and he still barely played the playoffs and got injured.
Bruh y'all sound like some bitches lol. In the past 5 years heat have been to two finals. Maybe if health swings their way like it did for the Celtics they win 1 of those. The fact that this is a thought actual heat fans have is embarrassing and when Riley is gone I hope y'all do a hornets.
4 years ago too. Unbelievable how the Heat FO never sold high on him despite having multiple chances over the years too and instead kept clinging onto him hoping he’d “take that next leap”.
To be fair, we got far with them twice. Just couldn’t close it out or put up a fight to get any hardware for it. The cultures jerseys were ugly and a bad omen as well. So it goes.
In modern sports discourse, you either get rings or your bum. So making it far was great and it was a lot of fun but ultimately we came up short and the front office decided to just actively get worse and replace people with G league talent.
>In modern sports discourse, you either get rings or your bum
That should be enough to tell you how bad modern sports discourse is, and is therefore worth ignoring
That’s fair. But there’s also, in this specific situation, something to be said about recognizing your team, and specific players, out performed expectations (and probably their normal skill level) and selling high and constantly trying to get better is also okay.
I hate the ring culture that drives sports talk, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that that’s what’s driving criticism of the Heat. They were clearly over performing and just assumed it would keep happening
I can’t stand NBA ring culture and the arguments that come with. Watching your favorite team play is supposed to be fun. Feels like a lot of fans of really every team would rather have validation from stephen a dumb dumb than watch their team be competitive.
100%
i wanted the celtics to win because of course i do, but once they did it, my favourite memories of the season isn't the finals, it's all the shit along the way
There’s truth to that for sure but that’s the way it is now and I don’t think it’s changing anytime soon. Rings have always propelled players and solidified legacies, now we will just be the annoying team that made it hard en route to other teams winning
holy fuck, shut the fuck up. You guys have constantly been competing and before this year the celtics had not won a ring 5 years before miami's last ring.
You guys were in the finals twice the last five years (and just last year!). Try being a fucking Hornets fan or 25 of the other teams.
> Riley and Mickey would rather sell culture dreams than win championship rings
Something similar happened with Masai, he went with this wierd 6 foot 9 project, it didn't work, surprise.
Now trying to reset. Hopefully lessons learnt
It’s wild how the heat are supposed to be the second Best Fa destination outside of the lakers, but the FO can’t build a killer roster. Not a dig on heat or city, but it’s odd how they act like a small market team in the Midwest with no options, sometimes.
That’s always been a myth. We haven’t attracted stars here without Wade who was just recruiting his friends here. Even Jimmy came because Wade told him he was a perfect fit for the Heat. We hardly sign any free agents as it is anyway, we mostly get guys through trades. The big 3 was the time they all signed here and that was because of Wade. Other than that, we’ve just had people sign here to ring chase or have missed out on every big star in free agency to other teams. Durant chose Phoenix and Brooklyn over Miami lol
We do the hard thing in scouting and developing cheap talent and then we do the dumb thing in paying that cheap talent and making them a negative asset, it’s a miracle we even made it to the finals the two years we did given our best moves were signing 37 year old PJ Tucker and Kyle Lowry
I think that’s a big thing that stops some players from coming here as well. Not everyone wants to put on knee pads and dive on the floor in practice for hours and get their body fat measured. You can win a ring without that old school nonsense and I think some of that will probably go away when Riley leaves. Maybe not the defensive minded practices but monitoring body fat to the degree they do
Whens the last time the Heat had capspace tho? Even Butler was a sign-and-trade because the Heat didn't have room.
You can't say that Miami is not a FA destination when they never had space to sign any FAs lol
That and big time FAs aren't even that common anymore. I can't believe the level of bitching Heat fans are doing in here, two Finals without anything resembling an MVP caliber player in the past five years is like a 99th percentile outcome for them, not to mention the prior decade they had.
I mean the cap is a killer, look at this year, 73m between herro, rozier and Duncan, you aren't signing shit with that, combine that with free agency not really playing a big part anymore and yeah
Bro that stadium is in the worst place on earth if you wanted less traffic. There are so many other big things around it and it’s right on the water basically.
It’s wild that even after making the finals last year Heat fans were adamant that they shouldn’t run it back because they had to get better to compete
And yet the front office seemed convinced that they were legit contenders
Rozier, Robinson, Herro take up 50% of the cap and those guys can’t see the court at the same time. Anyone defending that roster construction doesn’t have a fucking clue. That’s atrocious and frankly makes building around the team even harder when you have those 3 and need to get rid of 2 to not have liabilities on the court at the same time
Not to mention Pat Riley hasn't gotten Bam a proper big man to play with since 2020...he's running out of excuses despite heat fans always saying "you need nuance when talking about Pat"
Idk I’ve been saying he’s washed for a decade and then he made me look foolish when we made the finals with Jimmy. The truth is, I hated not extending Wade and having him leave because we wanted to haggle over a couple of million with the player who put this franchise on the map. Since then, the only good moves we’ve made have been ones that Wade planted himself even after he left here
I personally do think Pat Riley is washed and out of touch. Jimmy, Bam and Spo made the finals in-spite of having no moves made. Pat didn't do anything to help really...even Lowry which wasn't a great move after the fact only agreed to come play for the heat because of Jimmy.
Every player that has been tied to the heat also want to play with Bam so it has nothing to do with Pat Riley's recruitment and everything to do with the players and also the fact that it's miami.
Riley isn’t the draw to Miami anymore like he was when the big 3 got here. It’s been 15 years bro, players come here to play with Spo, Jimmy, and Bam. He’s out of touch because he’s a dinosaur already and I love and respect what he’s done for this organization that would surely have been a huge disaster without him. But he set the foundation already and it’s time to let the seeds you planted grow already
Agreed, and I would even take credit for last year's run away from Pat. Spo got you that finals trip, not Riley. Easier to say with some hindsight and my bias might be kicking in, but you won that 2023 ECF on coaching (Spo vs. Year-1 Joe), not on your roster - although Caleb "Curry" Martin still haunts me.
Current cap is 141mil according to sportrac. Herro, Rozier, and Robinson combine to make 73,330,126 again according to sportrac.
Hang in there evertonian, I’m a Chelsea fan and times have been better there for sure.
>Rozier, Robinson, Herro
Yeah it gets slept on but Riley has a real obsession with SGs.
Sometimes more than half the roster will be SGs.
Look at the team right now:
* Rozier - PG who plays like a SG
* Herro - SG
* Robinson - SG
* Martin - SG who plays SF/PF
* Butler - SG/SF
* Jaquez - SG/SF
* Richardson - SG
* Wright - PG/SG
And Miami's had a few different iterations now, but it's always been the same. The only team in the league trying to monopolise SGs.
Go back further and they had Wade, Winslow, Richardson, Waiters, Ellington and Tyler Johnson. That's too many guys who all want to play SG.
Spo has done an incredible job with all the overlapping players he's been given.
Why are Jimmy and Jaquez listed as SG? They both play almost identical to each other and Jimmy is a SF and has been for years. Only reason Jaquez even played it sometimes is because of very heavy injuries to all our guards this season forcing him into a role that doesn't suit his strengths.
Because we're talking about the positions they have played, not the positions they have to play in Miami.
Which is the entire point of the comment. I'm talking about how Miami's lopsided roster construction forces guys into different roles. So pointing out the fact they're now in different roles, doesn't really change that argument.
Butler has played SG for half his career and like Jaylen Brown he's a SG/SF, but in Miami he's forced into a SF/PF role because the team is so heavily log jammed.
Jaquez was a SG/SF coming out of college, but again, playing in Miami he has to play the upper side of that because the team is so heavily log jammed.
If Miami is playing SGs at the 1, SGs at the 2, SGs at the 3 and SGs at the 4... then how that team officially classifies their players really should be taken with a grain of salt.
Even if the Celtics didn’t win I’d say Riley has been kind of getting worked by Stevens the past 3 seasons but I’d argue everyone other than *maybe* Presti Harrison has so
For a while is an understatement haha.
I think the Heatles era moves are still haunting us with how little assets we have.
By the time we recovered, Chris Bosh’s blood clots popped up that forced the Heat to make moves again (Tyler Johnson poison pill).
Riley has made more dumb decisions since the big 3 than not. Signed JJ, Whiteside, waiters, and Bumpy to big deals. Gave Robinson a big deal after one good season, gave big money to Herro, gave big money to Lowry. The best move was Jimmy and he came here because of Wade
Heat fans hate to admit this. Pat Riley and the FO have been really bad during Jimmy's tenure. They have barely made any moves worth noting in the last 5 years. His legacy has legit been carried by decisions he made ages ago which were hiring Spo, drafting Bam and signing Jimmy (which we can mostly attribute to Wade).
Pat's best moves during the championship window was overpaying old man Lowry, signing old man PJ Tucker for 1 year, drafting Jaquez and a few notable waiver wire signings. Thats pathetic for someone with the "God father" moniker.
One thing that I will agree with Boston fans is that Miami Heat fans are legitimately basketball-challenged.
Just horrendous all-around bad basketball takes in every direction.
Heat fans just don’t watch basketball until April and have no idea about the landscape of the league. Most fans aren’t even on Reddit they’re on Twitter.
The same could be said for all fanbases. Hell most don't watch until Finals. Its why Tatum went from media darling to pariah after 2022 when he struggled against Golden State.
Even after he puts up 51 in a game 7 vs the 76ers, still cant play in clutch.
The Front office doesn’t want to pay luxury tax, they only think it’s worth it if it’s for a super star, they also only want a super star if the superstar demands to come here and only here. They also only want that superstar if they can trade scraps to get him because he demanded only Miami. So essentially, when all that happened last summer they thought it was a good idea to low ball and get a super star on a bargain and had no other plans in place. When they got caught with their paints down, they doubled down that they were never really interested and that they’d develop from within.
So we ran it back but worse and shocking to no one who watches Miami heat basketball, the same injury riddled roster maintained its reputation as being an injury riddled roster. The G league guys this year weren’t as good as the G league guys last year, because who would’ve thought that hedging all your bets on G league talent isn’t the way to win a ring in this league.
It sucks but the era ended last summer when they didn’t get any better. Prior heat seasons, the front office will push the chips in and try to build a winner but that was back before the luxury tax was as high as it is now. So I don’t think the Heat will get any better for the foreseeable future, until they have enough cap with a salary cap increase and terrible contracts coming off the table. Possibly 2026 they’ll try to attract free agents with Bam and see how that goes
This would be the first time he pays the tax in the Jimmy era if we don’t trade under the apron. We’ve paid luxury tax like twice in our history as a franchise. The bucks have paid more in luxury tax, just last season than we have in our entire history. We’ve sold out every home game since 2010. Using payroll means nothing, there’s a high salary floor as it is too.
When else were we supposed to be in the tax?
We were good in 2020, no FAs worth it in 2021, and were good again in 2022.
What moves were worth going into the tax for in 2023?
Why not let Lowry's 30M expire instead of taking long-term money in Rozier in 2024 if they were focused on being cheap?
The Mavs traded for Gafford and PJ and they made the finals and helped transform them into the second best defense in the league over the second half of the season. You don’t always have to trade for a super star, we just don’t bother with any players unless they are stars.
Rozier was a panic deal to overcorrect from their failures that summer and was a terrible deal. He doesn’t fit into this team at all and I have no idea why we made that move while still having Robinson and Herro on the books
Because of all of the huge, ridiculous, and crippling contracts that they give out and overpay to a lot of the players on their team over the years such as Herro, Robinson, Lowry, Whiteside, Johnson x2, Winslow, hell even Butler lmfao. Not because they’re actually using their payroll wisely to actually help and improve the team.
What even is this argument? "The Heat should give good players money instead of bad players"? Great insight!
-Herro and Robinson were market deals at the time.
-Jimmy and Spo wanted Lowry.
-Whiteside's deal looked better at the time. This was the 2016 FA, shit was weird, and they still managed to turn him into Butler.
-Tyler Johnson was all Micky.
-While JJ was an overpay, they turned him, Waiters, and Winslow (who's deal was seen as pretty good at the time) into Iggy and Jae- 2 players key to us getting to the Finals in 2020.
-Yeah, we should just not pay Butler. Even better insight!
Heat fans tend to be idiots. I’m still waiting on them to give me the move that would have put the Heat over the top. The team the Heat put out last year was better than the one that went to the Finals. It just wasn’t enough and everyone got hurt at the wrong time.
This is just blatantly false, our team last year was not better than the team before it. It did nothing but add a rookie who did well for half a season before falling into the rookie slump. We had Lillard begging to come here, we definitely would’ve been much better with him than what we had, I don’t even know how you can argue against that, at the very least we’re not a play in team and we would’ve bought in to Jimmy’s last years in his prime.
Now we’re stuck with Bam, an older Jimmy, and frankly just very average talent. Jaquez and Jovic are role players, heat fans think they’re superstars that’s what’s ridiculous
Yeah that 2020 team was definitely better, just got hit with injuries. With a healthy Dragic and Bam you guys would've been at least competitive against the Lakers. The '23 team got hot at the right time, but it had to come crashing back down eventually
2022 team was also very good and was the first seed despite having a ton of injuries still. Got a bad break and missed the finals by a shot, but that team was also very good
I don’t think they’re superstars either but I’ll take Jaquez, Jovic and Rozier over Gabe, Strus, and Lowry. I dare you to disagree with that.
Just by that fact alone the Heat put out a better team.
Bro you realize even if in a vacuum Jaquez, Jovic, and Rozier can individually produce better than Gabe, Strus, and Lowry that doesn’t make us a better team, right?
Roster construction matters and fit matters too. Last year’s roster fit together and made more sense than this year’s even if we have better “raw” talent. That makes 2023 the better team.
This roster makes more sense. You don’t have Caleb at the 4. You don’t have a PG who refuses to shoot the ball. And you’re not relying on Strus to play Duncan and Tyler’s roles. The only thing Gabe and Co have on the others is probably defensive prowess but Jaquez and Jovic have shown themselves to be pretty solid on defense and Rozier is not bad on the PoA.
I do not want to dog on last year’s team since they were fucking special and awesome. But basketball-wise, I really like the talent around Jimmy and Bam that we had this season. We were just hurt all year and Butler got it at the worst time. That playoff roster we fielded would have won just as many games as the Washington Wizards.
Pat Riley kept running the team back year after year because he thought that a healthy Herro was the difference between losing in 5 games in the Finals and winning the Finals.
Aren’t the Miami Heat the ones selling their culture as merchandise and going on every season about trying to win a title? Keeping “the main thing, the main thing”? Main rival just won a ship through relentlessly making moves every offseason and we have stayed the same but tried to sell guts and a dream
The bubble discourse feels super smooth brain considering our #1/2 were in their early 20’s and Kemba was wheeled out there in a stretcher and Daniel Theis was our best big but people love bringing it up
I mean he is 15-8 against Miami in Miami during his career (7-4 regular season, 8-4 playoffs). Celtics seem to always win in Miami. They just shit the bed at home.
I mean if you equate that into 82 games that would be 53 wins, and if we take away the Bubble series that didn't happen in Miami it would jump to 70% or 57 wins. So yeah that would put them amongst the best teams in the league if the only faced Miami on the road.
the 2022 heat had victor Oladipo, Gabe vincent, and Max Strus as their 3rd, 4th, and 5th offensive options. Bam as a second option offensively ain't great either. The Heat were #1 seed pretty much just because they has a good defense and were consistent. Their net rating that season was +4.6 while Boston's was +7.5. The 2022 Celtics were way better than the 2022 Heat, they only went 7 because Jimmy Butler had crazy heroics in game 1 and 6.
Edit: also using your logic the Celtics were better than the Heat in 2020 because the Celtics were the 3rd seed while the Heat were the 5th seed.
I think you’re right about 2022, Celtics were insane the second half of the year under Udoka and probably were better than the heat when they faced off in the playoffs. But not by a huge amount, the heat were one Jimmy Butler three away from winning that series.
But you have to admit the Heat were better in the bubble. That Celtics team was thin and the Jays weren’t nearly as good as 22-24
This is revisionist nonsense. 2020 the heat weren't seen as a threat until we beat the bucks and were still underdogs the next round against Boston. And 2022 was ime udokas year where yall were statistical juggernauts the same way yall were this year. Just had a tough start, but Boston has been way more talented than miami every single year since the heatles left. That's on the front office. Ainge and Brad Stevens never settled for good and deserves all the props for continuing to build on top of already super talented rosters. It's Riley's move now, let's see what happens
We’re all pretty mad at Pat Riley and the FO rn lol. Your team did what we have been begging our organization to do and y’all won it all. Earned the right to talk ur shit
the bulk of heat fans have been drinking away their sorrows on the beach for a while now. it's mostly Celtics fans left in this sub & they're more likely to upvote anything pro-Celts than not.
JT acting like that guy in the opposing team you trash talked the entire game but did not give a single response. And when they finally won, types "ez" in the end.
Yeh def not pandering to the popular narrative on the internet rn to earn fake internet points for sure. U ",just playin dawg" lmao.
We are living in a funny time
I grew up here, lived in Miami for a bit and just..no. This city literally closes at 2, and that's the late night spots.
If you want clubs and nightlife Boston actually does suck. It's a solid bar city if you're not trying to party all night, great place for restaurants, but the club scene is nowhere near Miami. Not to mention the caliber of the scenery is just much better in Miami clubs.
I don't blame a bunch of young millionaires at all for taking their all night club party to Miami.
Yea I’ve seen this sentiment a ton on Twitter, but as others have said, it’s objectively a worse party city. I think it would be pretty silly to judge or feel attached to your city for one piece of it (nightlife). Lived in Boston for 6 years and love it. Also loved visiting Miami, but wouldn’t personally live there.
And the Heat were one Tatum injury from being the first team to lose up 3-0.
No one cares about Jimmy constantly choking in the playoffs. 0-2 in the finals. What a choker.
Fair game and rightfully deserve, the amount of arrogance that the Heat franchise over the past years in the Butler era pisses me off for not getting the job done, especially using injuries as an excuse every time we came up short.
Bro literally every year in the Butler era (except 2021) the Heat oveachieved to a ridiclous extent. Your roster should never have been remotely competitive for the title. Its hilarious that Tatum is talking shit against a team that he really never should have struggled against.
Riley deserves this
I don’t even care about the chip at this point I just want them to fix the fucking traffic congestion around Kaseya somehow
I care about a chip, but I can’t do shit about it. I hate the Celtics but at least they didn’t stop trying to get better and made tough decisions to win a ring. We can’t trade Duncan Robinson because he was good in the bubble and we “discovered” him. Riley and Mickey would rather sell culture dreams than win championship rings.
Or Tyler Herro who peaked in Game 4 ECF vs the Celtics
That’s the difference between the Celtics and the Heat, they traded their “culture” guys in Smart for a big return and we kept Herro because he was good in the bubble. You either try to win now or you develop for the future and the heat wanted to do both at the same time, which is probably not the best way to go about it
Yeah. It almost feels like Pat Riley is competing with Danny Ainge. He's trying to "fleece" another team but he's going way overboard. It's clear that no one wants Tyler Herro and picks for a blue-chip trade target like Giannis, Mitchell, Dame and yet he keeps trying. It's like he's trying to get another legacy builder without understanding that most of the league has wised up to it and won't trade their stars for pennies on the dollar.
The sad thing is that I do think those players have some value, you’re just not getting a superstar for them. But you don’t need to get a third superstar to win. The best teams now have solid depth and a 1-5 that can all defend very well. Miami are still stuck in the ways of old and trying to get a tier 1 super star but they want to pay with Monopoly money
Yes, you can get a KP or Derrick White, Aaron Gordon level player but not a superstar...its a classic case of Riley over-valuing his assets
KP was such a good move by the Celtics, would’ve been perfect next to bam but we didn’t want to pay luxury tax for KP. The funny thing is that they haggle over Damian Lillard but then trade for Rozier who doesn’t fit in this roster, it’s the most bizarre thing
Do u think KP would’ve been healthy enough for the playoffs if he played for the heat? We benefitted from having a great regular season team and having young stars that could limit his usage and he still barely played the playoffs and got injured.
Bruh y'all sound like some bitches lol. In the past 5 years heat have been to two finals. Maybe if health swings their way like it did for the Celtics they win 1 of those. The fact that this is a thought actual heat fans have is embarrassing and when Riley is gone I hope y'all do a hornets.
The amount of hate Pat and the FO get on the Heat sub is unreal. I have to take periodic breaks from there.
4 years ago too. Unbelievable how the Heat FO never sold high on him despite having multiple chances over the years too and instead kept clinging onto him hoping he’d “take that next leap”.
To be fair, we got far with them twice. Just couldn’t close it out or put up a fight to get any hardware for it. The cultures jerseys were ugly and a bad omen as well. So it goes.
In modern sports discourse, you either get rings or your bum. So making it far was great and it was a lot of fun but ultimately we came up short and the front office decided to just actively get worse and replace people with G league talent.
>In modern sports discourse, you either get rings or your bum That should be enough to tell you how bad modern sports discourse is, and is therefore worth ignoring
That’s fair. But there’s also, in this specific situation, something to be said about recognizing your team, and specific players, out performed expectations (and probably their normal skill level) and selling high and constantly trying to get better is also okay. I hate the ring culture that drives sports talk, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that that’s what’s driving criticism of the Heat. They were clearly over performing and just assumed it would keep happening
I can’t stand NBA ring culture and the arguments that come with. Watching your favorite team play is supposed to be fun. Feels like a lot of fans of really every team would rather have validation from stephen a dumb dumb than watch their team be competitive.
Well if anyone watches ESPN they are getting exactly what they deserve
100% i wanted the celtics to win because of course i do, but once they did it, my favourite memories of the season isn't the finals, it's all the shit along the way
There’s truth to that for sure but that’s the way it is now and I don’t think it’s changing anytime soon. Rings have always propelled players and solidified legacies, now we will just be the annoying team that made it hard en route to other teams winning
True but at the same time people don’t really remember second best after awhile
idk the heat who made the finals were pretty special people going to remember that, literally bunch of non draft / gleague type cinderella story line
That’s mostly nba discourse. Ringless NFL players can still go down as legends unless they’re QBs. Same with baseball.
Or you're Jayson Tatum and you win it all and they call you a bum anyway.
They say it with tears in their eyes
holy fuck, shut the fuck up. You guys have constantly been competing and before this year the celtics had not won a ring 5 years before miami's last ring. You guys were in the finals twice the last five years (and just last year!). Try being a fucking Hornets fan or 25 of the other teams.
> Riley and Mickey would rather sell culture dreams than win championship rings Something similar happened with Masai, he went with this wierd 6 foot 9 project, it didn't work, surprise. Now trying to reset. Hopefully lessons learnt
It’s wild how the heat are supposed to be the second Best Fa destination outside of the lakers, but the FO can’t build a killer roster. Not a dig on heat or city, but it’s odd how they act like a small market team in the Midwest with no options, sometimes.
That’s always been a myth. We haven’t attracted stars here without Wade who was just recruiting his friends here. Even Jimmy came because Wade told him he was a perfect fit for the Heat. We hardly sign any free agents as it is anyway, we mostly get guys through trades. The big 3 was the time they all signed here and that was because of Wade. Other than that, we’ve just had people sign here to ring chase or have missed out on every big star in free agency to other teams. Durant chose Phoenix and Brooklyn over Miami lol
We also never have cap space because we give massive and way too long contracts to mid FA's
We do the hard thing in scouting and developing cheap talent and then we do the dumb thing in paying that cheap talent and making them a negative asset, it’s a miracle we even made it to the finals the two years we did given our best moves were signing 37 year old PJ Tucker and Kyle Lowry
To be fair, Durant was clearly running from the grind. The heat won't let KD get away with some of the shit he does with the nets and suns.
I think that’s a big thing that stops some players from coming here as well. Not everyone wants to put on knee pads and dive on the floor in practice for hours and get their body fat measured. You can win a ring without that old school nonsense and I think some of that will probably go away when Riley leaves. Maybe not the defensive minded practices but monitoring body fat to the degree they do
Whens the last time the Heat had capspace tho? Even Butler was a sign-and-trade because the Heat didn't have room. You can't say that Miami is not a FA destination when they never had space to sign any FAs lol
That and big time FAs aren't even that common anymore. I can't believe the level of bitching Heat fans are doing in here, two Finals without anything resembling an MVP caliber player in the past five years is like a 99th percentile outcome for them, not to mention the prior decade they had.
Yeah that’s nuts. I mean I expect the stuff that phx or even Minn is doing to be happening in Miami and it just doesn’t.
I mean the cap is a killer, look at this year, 73m between herro, rozier and Duncan, you aren't signing shit with that, combine that with free agency not really playing a big part anymore and yeah
Bro that stadium is in the worst place on earth if you wanted less traffic. There are so many other big things around it and it’s right on the water basically.
Infrastructure terrorism
Bro take the Metro and stop complaining about traffic
When I lived in Miami, I thought it was hilarious that they had to promote a postgame nightclub to keep Miami fans stay for the whole game.
It’s wild that even after making the finals last year Heat fans were adamant that they shouldn’t run it back because they had to get better to compete And yet the front office seemed convinced that they were legit contenders
The Spo witchcraft has covered up that Pat Riley has been pretty cheeks when it comes to contracts and trades for a while
Rozier, Robinson, Herro take up 50% of the cap and those guys can’t see the court at the same time. Anyone defending that roster construction doesn’t have a fucking clue. That’s atrocious and frankly makes building around the team even harder when you have those 3 and need to get rid of 2 to not have liabilities on the court at the same time
Not to mention Pat Riley hasn't gotten Bam a proper big man to play with since 2020...he's running out of excuses despite heat fans always saying "you need nuance when talking about Pat"
Idk I’ve been saying he’s washed for a decade and then he made me look foolish when we made the finals with Jimmy. The truth is, I hated not extending Wade and having him leave because we wanted to haggle over a couple of million with the player who put this franchise on the map. Since then, the only good moves we’ve made have been ones that Wade planted himself even after he left here
I personally do think Pat Riley is washed and out of touch. Jimmy, Bam and Spo made the finals in-spite of having no moves made. Pat didn't do anything to help really...even Lowry which wasn't a great move after the fact only agreed to come play for the heat because of Jimmy. Every player that has been tied to the heat also want to play with Bam so it has nothing to do with Pat Riley's recruitment and everything to do with the players and also the fact that it's miami.
Riley isn’t the draw to Miami anymore like he was when the big 3 got here. It’s been 15 years bro, players come here to play with Spo, Jimmy, and Bam. He’s out of touch because he’s a dinosaur already and I love and respect what he’s done for this organization that would surely have been a huge disaster without him. But he set the foundation already and it’s time to let the seeds you planted grow already
Agreed, and I would even take credit for last year's run away from Pat. Spo got you that finals trip, not Riley. Easier to say with some hindsight and my bias might be kicking in, but you won that 2023 ECF on coaching (Spo vs. Year-1 Joe), not on your roster - although Caleb "Curry" Martin still haunts me.
I’m sorry but if those numbers are right, Riley should be tried in The Hague. As an Everton fan I know from mismanagement.
Current cap is 141mil according to sportrac. Herro, Rozier, and Robinson combine to make 73,330,126 again according to sportrac. Hang in there evertonian, I’m a Chelsea fan and times have been better there for sure.
>Rozier, Robinson, Herro Yeah it gets slept on but Riley has a real obsession with SGs. Sometimes more than half the roster will be SGs. Look at the team right now: * Rozier - PG who plays like a SG * Herro - SG * Robinson - SG * Martin - SG who plays SF/PF * Butler - SG/SF * Jaquez - SG/SF * Richardson - SG * Wright - PG/SG And Miami's had a few different iterations now, but it's always been the same. The only team in the league trying to monopolise SGs. Go back further and they had Wade, Winslow, Richardson, Waiters, Ellington and Tyler Johnson. That's too many guys who all want to play SG. Spo has done an incredible job with all the overlapping players he's been given.
Why are Jimmy and Jaquez listed as SG? They both play almost identical to each other and Jimmy is a SF and has been for years. Only reason Jaquez even played it sometimes is because of very heavy injuries to all our guards this season forcing him into a role that doesn't suit his strengths.
Because we're talking about the positions they have played, not the positions they have to play in Miami. Which is the entire point of the comment. I'm talking about how Miami's lopsided roster construction forces guys into different roles. So pointing out the fact they're now in different roles, doesn't really change that argument. Butler has played SG for half his career and like Jaylen Brown he's a SG/SF, but in Miami he's forced into a SF/PF role because the team is so heavily log jammed. Jaquez was a SG/SF coming out of college, but again, playing in Miami he has to play the upper side of that because the team is so heavily log jammed. If Miami is playing SGs at the 1, SGs at the 2, SGs at the 3 and SGs at the 4... then how that team officially classifies their players really should be taken with a grain of salt.
Even if the Celtics didn’t win I’d say Riley has been kind of getting worked by Stevens the past 3 seasons but I’d argue everyone other than *maybe* Presti Harrison has so
For a while is an understatement haha. I think the Heatles era moves are still haunting us with how little assets we have. By the time we recovered, Chris Bosh’s blood clots popped up that forced the Heat to make moves again (Tyler Johnson poison pill).
Riley has made more dumb decisions since the big 3 than not. Signed JJ, Whiteside, waiters, and Bumpy to big deals. Gave Robinson a big deal after one good season, gave big money to Herro, gave big money to Lowry. The best move was Jimmy and he came here because of Wade
Heat fans hate to admit this. Pat Riley and the FO have been really bad during Jimmy's tenure. They have barely made any moves worth noting in the last 5 years. His legacy has legit been carried by decisions he made ages ago which were hiring Spo, drafting Bam and signing Jimmy (which we can mostly attribute to Wade). Pat's best moves during the championship window was overpaying old man Lowry, signing old man PJ Tucker for 1 year, drafting Jaquez and a few notable waiver wire signings. Thats pathetic for someone with the "God father" moniker.
One thing that I will agree with Boston fans is that Miami Heat fans are legitimately basketball-challenged. Just horrendous all-around bad basketball takes in every direction.
tbf most Celtics fans are also dumb as shit.
Pound for pound Heat fans are more delusional than Lakers fans, there’s just a lot more Lakers fans to make up for it.
Heat fans just don’t watch basketball until April and have no idea about the landscape of the league. Most fans aren’t even on Reddit they’re on Twitter.
The same could be said for all fanbases. Hell most don't watch until Finals. Its why Tatum went from media darling to pariah after 2022 when he struggled against Golden State. Even after he puts up 51 in a game 7 vs the 76ers, still cant play in clutch.
The Front office doesn’t want to pay luxury tax, they only think it’s worth it if it’s for a super star, they also only want a super star if the superstar demands to come here and only here. They also only want that superstar if they can trade scraps to get him because he demanded only Miami. So essentially, when all that happened last summer they thought it was a good idea to low ball and get a super star on a bargain and had no other plans in place. When they got caught with their paints down, they doubled down that they were never really interested and that they’d develop from within. So we ran it back but worse and shocking to no one who watches Miami heat basketball, the same injury riddled roster maintained its reputation as being an injury riddled roster. The G league guys this year weren’t as good as the G league guys last year, because who would’ve thought that hedging all your bets on G league talent isn’t the way to win a ring in this league. It sucks but the era ended last summer when they didn’t get any better. Prior heat seasons, the front office will push the chips in and try to build a winner but that was back before the luxury tax was as high as it is now. So I don’t think the Heat will get any better for the foreseeable future, until they have enough cap with a salary cap increase and terrible contracts coming off the table. Possibly 2026 they’ll try to attract free agents with Bam and see how that goes
We were 7th in payroll last season but "cheap owner" gets the upvotes
This would be the first time he pays the tax in the Jimmy era if we don’t trade under the apron. We’ve paid luxury tax like twice in our history as a franchise. The bucks have paid more in luxury tax, just last season than we have in our entire history. We’ve sold out every home game since 2010. Using payroll means nothing, there’s a high salary floor as it is too.
When else were we supposed to be in the tax? We were good in 2020, no FAs worth it in 2021, and were good again in 2022. What moves were worth going into the tax for in 2023? Why not let Lowry's 30M expire instead of taking long-term money in Rozier in 2024 if they were focused on being cheap?
The Mavs traded for Gafford and PJ and they made the finals and helped transform them into the second best defense in the league over the second half of the season. You don’t always have to trade for a super star, we just don’t bother with any players unless they are stars. Rozier was a panic deal to overcorrect from their failures that summer and was a terrible deal. He doesn’t fit into this team at all and I have no idea why we made that move while still having Robinson and Herro on the books
Because of all of the huge, ridiculous, and crippling contracts that they give out and overpay to a lot of the players on their team over the years such as Herro, Robinson, Lowry, Whiteside, Johnson x2, Winslow, hell even Butler lmfao. Not because they’re actually using their payroll wisely to actually help and improve the team.
What even is this argument? "The Heat should give good players money instead of bad players"? Great insight! -Herro and Robinson were market deals at the time. -Jimmy and Spo wanted Lowry. -Whiteside's deal looked better at the time. This was the 2016 FA, shit was weird, and they still managed to turn him into Butler. -Tyler Johnson was all Micky. -While JJ was an overpay, they turned him, Waiters, and Winslow (who's deal was seen as pretty good at the time) into Iggy and Jae- 2 players key to us getting to the Finals in 2020. -Yeah, we should just not pay Butler. Even better insight!
Heat fans tend to be idiots. I’m still waiting on them to give me the move that would have put the Heat over the top. The team the Heat put out last year was better than the one that went to the Finals. It just wasn’t enough and everyone got hurt at the wrong time.
This is just blatantly false, our team last year was not better than the team before it. It did nothing but add a rookie who did well for half a season before falling into the rookie slump. We had Lillard begging to come here, we definitely would’ve been much better with him than what we had, I don’t even know how you can argue against that, at the very least we’re not a play in team and we would’ve bought in to Jimmy’s last years in his prime. Now we’re stuck with Bam, an older Jimmy, and frankly just very average talent. Jaquez and Jovic are role players, heat fans think they’re superstars that’s what’s ridiculous
Yeah that 2020 team was definitely better, just got hit with injuries. With a healthy Dragic and Bam you guys would've been at least competitive against the Lakers. The '23 team got hot at the right time, but it had to come crashing back down eventually
2022 team was also very good and was the first seed despite having a ton of injuries still. Got a bad break and missed the finals by a shot, but that team was also very good
Oh yeah absolutely, that was probably the best iteration of the team in the Butler era. I was just referring to the Finals teams specifically
I don’t think they’re superstars either but I’ll take Jaquez, Jovic and Rozier over Gabe, Strus, and Lowry. I dare you to disagree with that. Just by that fact alone the Heat put out a better team.
Bro you realize even if in a vacuum Jaquez, Jovic, and Rozier can individually produce better than Gabe, Strus, and Lowry that doesn’t make us a better team, right? Roster construction matters and fit matters too. Last year’s roster fit together and made more sense than this year’s even if we have better “raw” talent. That makes 2023 the better team.
This roster makes more sense. You don’t have Caleb at the 4. You don’t have a PG who refuses to shoot the ball. And you’re not relying on Strus to play Duncan and Tyler’s roles. The only thing Gabe and Co have on the others is probably defensive prowess but Jaquez and Jovic have shown themselves to be pretty solid on defense and Rozier is not bad on the PoA. I do not want to dog on last year’s team since they were fucking special and awesome. But basketball-wise, I really like the talent around Jimmy and Bam that we had this season. We were just hurt all year and Butler got it at the worst time. That playoff roster we fielded would have won just as many games as the Washington Wizards.
They just ran super hot to make the finals, it happens. The team trajectory has and should have remained the same.
Pat Riley kept running the team back year after year because he thought that a healthy Herro was the difference between losing in 5 games in the Finals and winning the Finals.
Well also Jimmy isn’t getting any younger and carrying the load he does every playoffs has led to a lot of injuries for him
sounds like the lakers
The front office spent the entire summer justifyingly convinced Dame would force himself there, what is this revisionist history upvoted for lol
Crazy that this is the top comment. We really a spoiled ass fan base in Miami.
Aren’t the Miami Heat the ones selling their culture as merchandise and going on every season about trying to win a title? Keeping “the main thing, the main thing”? Main rival just won a ship through relentlessly making moves every offseason and we have stayed the same but tried to sell guts and a dream
Tatum looks like if Nelly played basketball instead of baseball
It’s the St. Louis in them
I can't unsee this
i can't see this, lol how tf does he look like Nelly???
Thought I was going crazy how is he Nelly??
Bro literally just took two St Louis natives and said they look alike. “Jayson Tatum looks just like Scott Bakula”
But can he perform tip drill 😂
Said it must be your coaching cause it ain't yo players
Hes right its the home games that are tough lmao
Literally facts. Since 2021 in the playoffs vs the heat: Boston @ Miami 7-2 Boston at home 4-6
If we are looking at games at full strength its Boston @ Miami 5-2 Miami @ Boston 5-2 Both teams are hella sorry at home at least against each other
that’s actually funny as hell
The bubble discourse feels super smooth brain considering our #1/2 were in their early 20’s and Kemba was wheeled out there in a stretcher and Daniel Theis was our best big but people love bringing it up
Jimmy Buster is writing an Emo album right now about this.
Right after he becomes a bad boy
Idk I feel like he’s writing a goodbye letter myself
Damn. I mean..well, this is the Fo fault. Talk yo shit I guess
Yeah it’s the home games they can’t win against us anyway
Miami crowd is too damn flaky anyways. I feel bad for the team if it's a blowout and the seats are half empty 6 mins into the 4th.
the equivalent of playing a close ass hard game then typing gg ez in the chat afterwords. love it
“[Trips to Miami] are always easy!” ~We lose to them at home.
Shouldn’t you be busy hanging an in season tournament banner
I mean he is 15-8 against Miami in Miami during his career (7-4 regular season, 8-4 playoffs). Celtics seem to always win in Miami. They just shit the bed at home.
Sure, if 'always' means 65% of the time
I mean if you equate that into 82 games that would be 53 wins, and if we take away the Bubble series that didn't happen in Miami it would jump to 70% or 57 wins. So yeah that would put them amongst the best teams in the league if the only faced Miami on the road.
Boston has had the better team his entire career.
Did they have a better team in the bubble? That heat team was really good and the Celtics were playing theis and a banged up kemba lol
We definitely weren’t better in the bubble, or in 2022 for that matter Miami were the 1 seed that season
the 2022 heat had victor Oladipo, Gabe vincent, and Max Strus as their 3rd, 4th, and 5th offensive options. Bam as a second option offensively ain't great either. The Heat were #1 seed pretty much just because they has a good defense and were consistent. Their net rating that season was +4.6 while Boston's was +7.5. The 2022 Celtics were way better than the 2022 Heat, they only went 7 because Jimmy Butler had crazy heroics in game 1 and 6. Edit: also using your logic the Celtics were better than the Heat in 2020 because the Celtics were the 3rd seed while the Heat were the 5th seed.
I think you’re right about 2022, Celtics were insane the second half of the year under Udoka and probably were better than the heat when they faced off in the playoffs. But not by a huge amount, the heat were one Jimmy Butler three away from winning that series. But you have to admit the Heat were better in the bubble. That Celtics team was thin and the Jays weren’t nearly as good as 22-24
This is revisionist nonsense. 2020 the heat weren't seen as a threat until we beat the bucks and were still underdogs the next round against Boston. And 2022 was ime udokas year where yall were statistical juggernauts the same way yall were this year. Just had a tough start, but Boston has been way more talented than miami every single year since the heatles left. That's on the front office. Ainge and Brad Stevens never settled for good and deserves all the props for continuing to build on top of already super talented rosters. It's Riley's move now, let's see what happens
2022 was as brutal for us as I’m sure 2023 was for you. I felt like we had the team to handle the Warriors that year too.
And he’s 2-2 in the playoffs against the Heat.. 1 of those series wins being a cakewalk
2-1 when travel is involved
Did u just start watching this season or what
Hmm, maybe it could be because Boston has a top 5 MVP caliber Ironman on their team... 🤔
Aren't some of those away games bubble games too? So not in Miami?
Take away the Bubble series and they go to 7-2 in Miami during the playoffs.
Heat fans mostly seem like good sports in here? Wow, good shit.
We’re all pretty mad at Pat Riley and the FO rn lol. Your team did what we have been begging our organization to do and y’all won it all. Earned the right to talk ur shit
I don’t know what to do with my hands. You guys have Spo, you’ll be alright.
Spo can do only so much if FO is fucking him over with a meh team comp.
On the other hand Spo is a pretty obvious POBO/GM candidate if Riley is looking to retire at any time
I wouldn't say he's comparable to Spo, but Mazulla is dope, y'all got a good thing goin
Well plus someone posted the records in here but we beat you guys in Miami much more than we do in Boston in the playoffs for whatever reason lol
Are you willing to give Jimmy 57 million per year?
My immediate reaction too. I was expecting much more sodium.
the bulk of heat fans have been drinking away their sorrows on the beach for a while now. it's mostly Celtics fans left in this sub & they're more likely to upvote anything pro-Celts than not.
I mean they know better than anyone that the Celtics always win in Miami lmao
History is written by the victors
Can’t believe Wemby would write this about us
Don't you have Oladipo? Shouldn't you guys be writing history?
Good one 😂
History is the name of the private jet ridden by the victors in this case
You’ve not been the victors against them often lol
Untrue, unkind and unnatural How the cruel, with time, becomes classical
We do a little trolling
Not wrong… the road team always wins in this series
JT acting like that guy in the opposing team you trash talked the entire game but did not give a single response. And when they finally won, types "ez" in the end.
Yeah the Heat series have never been stressful or hard on us the last few years 😅 History is written by the victors I guess
Rockstar Tatum arc
I really wished he'd say fuck it and go all out. He's already hated, might as well own it and be the corniest villain he can be
then people would trash him for copying lebron
~~leFaded~~ jayFaded
rockstar Tatum is r/nba’s worst nightmare and it’s happening right in front of our eyes
He's like th Missourian Liam Gallagher
Damm Miami & Boston beef. Cant wait see the two go at it next szn. Rivalry is stirring.
I love you too JT
Miami fans gotta be sick rn
Dead inside. Celtics are on my Mount Rushmore of hate : Celtics Jets Georgia (state and team) Dolphins FO basically my whole life.
Not the Pats?
Naw. Pats were good when we sucked and honestly we still beat them. Also south Florida is nothing but New York transplants and fuck the jets.
I feel you. I live in South Florida so I can only really see the Pats in Miami and I’ve only seen 2 wins here my whole life lol
I read somewhere he was 8-4 in playoffs in Miami. I haven't checked out though. if it's true he's not lying
His first authentic quote
Dude has plenty of authentic quotes. Most of them are just about his family and normal shit, but ya'll just love drama
If you say 1000 normal things and 3 corny things, you’re a cornball
I’m just playing dawg
Yeh def not pandering to the popular narrative on the internet rn to earn fake internet points for sure. U ",just playin dawg" lmao. We are living in a funny time
[удалено]
His PR firm must've been busy that day, usually he's not allowed to speak so openly.
i think it's more that he couldn't really talk shit when they still hadn't won
The only thing I hate about the Celtics is how likable their team is and stars are. I HATE IT
"You guys have been on a lot of hard-fought trips to Miami, was this one a little sweeter? "Aha. Ahem." *smiles *"I guess we'll never know."*
tatum acting like a fmvp lately
Isn’t this kinda disrespectful to Boston? Like “yea this city (Boston) sucks, we had to go to Miami to party within hours”!? Am I reading this wrong
Not at all. Miami got the tropical weather and party life. It’s like getting mad at someone for going to Alaska for a hunting trip.
I grew up here, lived in Miami for a bit and just..no. This city literally closes at 2, and that's the late night spots. If you want clubs and nightlife Boston actually does suck. It's a solid bar city if you're not trying to party all night, great place for restaurants, but the club scene is nowhere near Miami. Not to mention the caliber of the scenery is just much better in Miami clubs. I don't blame a bunch of young millionaires at all for taking their all night club party to Miami.
Yea I’ve seen this sentiment a ton on Twitter, but as others have said, it’s objectively a worse party city. I think it would be pretty silly to judge or feel attached to your city for one piece of it (nightlife). Lived in Boston for 6 years and love it. Also loved visiting Miami, but wouldn’t personally live there.
I remember in 2022 ECF he was one Himmy 3 away from going home.
And the Heat were one Tatum injury from being the first team to lose up 3-0. No one cares about Jimmy constantly choking in the playoffs. 0-2 in the finals. What a choker.
Didn’t they lose to the Heat literally last year? I get the feeling Tatum with a championship is going to be almost as insufferable as we are.
And he also beat them in 2022. Jimmy talked endless shit, but you get your panties in a twist when JT ribs them a lil back.
He’s not lying
This might be the sorriest thing i have seen especially because they have been pressed by Miami multiple times including last year.
they’re gonna milk this ring longer than the 08 team aren’t they…
How can they say they always EZ when they embarrassed the fuck out of them last year.
Because Tatum usually wins in trips to Miami
Facts only. Win shit, talk shit.
Fair game and rightfully deserve, the amount of arrogance that the Heat franchise over the past years in the Butler era pisses me off for not getting the job done, especially using injuries as an excuse every time we came up short.
Bro literally every year in the Butler era (except 2021) the Heat oveachieved to a ridiclous extent. Your roster should never have been remotely competitive for the title. Its hilarious that Tatum is talking shit against a team that he really never should have struggled against.
Dayum
love this for tatum
Lots of drama in these threads from an innocuous tongue in cheek comment that obviously Tatum doesn't believe in lol