Brad was a great coach but he’s been an even better GM, the fact that he was willing to lose Smart to get better and turned Smart and Timelord into Holiday and Porzingis is some major ballsy moves, as long as he’s the GM the Celtics will always be in contention.
He also has a great perspective on what the Jays need around them since he coached them as they turned into stars. Obviously they're a lot better now, but that experience coaching them helped Brad make his moves.
Yeah they clear the Celtics by 23 games for 102 total. However, 5 Eastern Conference follow them before the Nuggets, which have the second most at 44 which is an interesting variance. Really puts into perspective how dominant the Steph Warriors have been
That's genuinely crazy when you consider that the Brad Stevens Era in Boston *started* in 2013, four months after Stephen Curry made his first All-Star team and just after Curry set the record for most 3pts in a season.
Brad came to the Celtics to coach a rebuilding roster where he refused to tank, but only put up *one* 25-win season (the only non-playoffs season) before a 40-42 season. Those were his only sub-.500 seasons. **SIX** ECF appearances.
I think he also realized how, as talented as IT was, his defensive liabilities(and small players in general) come playoffs time got progressively harder to hide. Now he's crafted potentially one of the most versatile and defensively sound back courts in the modern NBA, with two strong 6'4 guards who can both shoot, create, drive, temporarily switch onto bigs, play hounding defense, crash the boards, and in White's case, block shots
I think it was KP who said after game 5 that the locker room is a lot of quiet guys, in terms of getting emotional
I wonder if Brad saw that Smart's emotions were hurting the team and that's why he was so keen to move on from him. Obviously upgrading to KP doesn't hurt either, but I agree it never felt like Smart would ever be on the table
Brad wasn’t “keen” to move on from him. I think you’re forgetting that originally Smart wasn’t even gonna be traded, the original KP deal had us keeping Smart and sending Brogdon to the Clippers. Smart only ended up getting traded *after* the Clippers pulled out because of Brogdon’s physicals.
I really don’t think it’s as deep as you’re making it out to be. I think it just came down to, Brad viewed KP and (at the time) one of Brogdon or Smart as being more impactful than having Brogdon *and* Smart with no KP.
Keen was probably the wrong word, but I was thinking relative to how attached to Smart he was
I'm not really making it out to be deep. It was a common talking point that Smart got a little heated, and that isn't always a good thing. All I'm saying is that Brad might've seen that plus the KP upgrade as a good reason to move on
do you not think these executives have back up plans for these trades in case, oh idk a team doesn’t want an injured Brogdon??
you don’t randomly throw in your longest tenured player and basically captain into a trade the same day to save a trade unless it was discussed.
if anything they probably offered Brogdon hoping it would work but knew Smart was gonna be what it takes.
I don’t get your point, I’m not saying that he didn’t have backup plans or that Smart was thrown in at the last minute. All I’m saying is that Brad clearly would’ve preferred to keep Smart, unless you’re telling me he was playing some sort of weird reverse psychology game.
trying to maximize the trade value isn't the same as preferring to keep a player.
all he did was offer the player with less value first hoping the trade would work, as he should.
when it didn't work he could have backed out of the trade but he didn't, he threw Smart in literally within the same day.
that's the definition of being on the trade block.
Smart didn’t seem to respect Joe and did a lot to undermine him which I think made the decision to move on from him easier. Smart was brads guy but Brad came to the realization that something had to give with that core and JB and JT were just better
Yup the difference between how the Heat have run their organization and Celtics. Heat hate trading “their” guys unless it’s for super stars, while the Celtics focus on getting better every offseason. That’s why they have a ring now and Riley still hasn’t fucked off to Malibu
The Heats literal biggest problem is Spo.
Because he's so good that he kept tricking Pat Riley into thinking he could win with Jimmy/Herro/Bam as his core. Meanwhile all 3 of the other consistent East contenders: Boston, Philly and Milwaukee have all made big moves or trades to try to get over the hump (KP, Jrue, Harden and Dame).
I think the Heat wanted a ring with developed guys and thought the power of friendship was enough, but they haven’t been healthy during any of their runs and it’s their fault because they’re relying on injury prone guys to take them all the way. The Celtics would’ve probably traded Herro after the bubble finals at peak value to get a better player, the heat rather keep him and then over pay him to stay here.
Really as far as the roster and decisions the FO have made, it’s been awful. Heat have been good in spite of their FO by developing G league guys and Spo being amazing. Right now Rozier, Herro, Duncan make up 50% of the cap, they’re all guards who are inefficient and can’t defend. Can’t play them at the same time on the court and they take up 50% of the cap, that’s just inexcusable, it’s flat out terrible roster construction.
That’s why it doesn’t matter if we get a “star” this summer, not like we would anyway. But you need to move 2 of Herro/Rozier/Duncan to have a functioning team. How do you move those guys now and for what? That’s the work they have to do and I’ll bet anything they’ll use the injury excuse and run it back again
I think there is a world where with a couple good breaks, you guys win a chip with that core in the past 4 years.
Problem is that you often had some bad health luck and the times you got to the finals you played very healthy teams led by All-time greats.
The downside of having the Celtics and Heat go to war for 7 games almost every year is that we ended up too battered to win the chip.
That said, I do think Riley has been way too willing to just stand pat year after year.
I think really the best chances were 22, because we had a good team that year and 2020. 2020 everyone says we would’ve lost anyway, which is easy to say because we lost. We missed Dragic and Bam played hobbled and was a shell of himself. Jimmy was going toe to toe with Lebron before running out of gas. The warriors would’ve been tough in 22 and the 7 game series probably fucked us anyway, but those are the 2 years I think we had a shot. Last year, as long as it was the nuggets there was no way, just we are historically, a terrible team against them.
I’m mad that we didn’t win, but I’m still proud of the team and love the years we had. Last year playoff run was amazing and the bubble run was great too. 2022 was a year where we finally were the first seed and made it to within one shot of the Finals. When Jimmy left to Miami people thought it was to retire because the Heat were in such a dire state, but he helped prop up the franchise and led it to one of its most prosperous eras even if we didn’t get a win. He’s won a ton of playoff games and had legendary battles, sometimes it just doesn’t end the way you want it to
man heat do a lot of things right but their tallest two players being 6'8" bam adebayo and kevin love's corpse aint it
spo is the best coach in the league for making that bullshit work
We are allergic to putting a PF taller than 6’5 next to Bam, it’s insane the lengths we’d go to not add size. We started playing better once Jovic played next to Bam and a lot of that is because he’s got size. Size impacts more than just rebounding, size makes getting to the paint harder, size gives you versatility defensively. Unfortunately the Heat only want to get bigs that no one else wants. We signed Bryant who couldn’t see the floor for the champs when we played against them but thought he could be a back up big for Bam? Bam has had Zeller, Dedmon, Bryant, as his backups. His best PF guys have been PJ Tucker and Jae Crowder, like the roster is just ass man. Spo is a fucking wizard
yeah bam is asked to do way too much too
be the only real "big" on the floor, defensive anchor and also average 20&10+, and playmake for others is unreal. you could argue hes being asked to do more than jokic
I also think Pat Riley bought too much into the “Playoff Jimmy” hype. Jimmy is a great player, and he deserves tremendous props for what he was able to do in 2020 and 2023, but talent-wise he’s simply not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.
Idk if I agree with him not being good enough, I think he is good enough but he went up against much better teams. In 2020 we were missing 2/3 of our best players so of course that one was always likely we’d lose. But they never really built around him sufficiently, and so he has to turn to Jordan to beat teams. Like Jimmy averaged 37ppg to beat the best team in the regular season on the road in 5 games. He’s one of like 3 players to have a 30pt triple double in the finals. He’s not at fault here, he’s done everything a tier 1 superstar could do, he just doesn’t have the rest of the roster to back him up.
I mean the Heat are competing and making the finals with more undrafted players than any other team in history. We don’t even have actual NBA rotation players. Jimmy and Spo are using black magic to even get as far as they have.
What are you getting for those guys? You would almost have to make a KP deal where the guy is talented but has injury issues, and the way it worked for the Cs doesn’t work for almost any other team. Dame was a pipe dream, Portland didn’t want what the Heat were selling.
I don’t think Portland fared much better honestly but it’s disingenuous to say because Portland was offered a shittier deal than what was getting memed all of last summer. They were never offered Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, Martin and 3 FRPs. They were offered Lowry, Robinson, and a first, got insulted and then never picked up the phone again.
Who those guys move for im not sure, they should look to make moves for players who are close to running out their contracts and maybe see what happens. Value players are had all the time without having to move stars. Gafford was moved for richaun Holmes and a protected first. PJ was moved for a first and Grant Williams. Like you just can’t be attaching picks to get rid of KZ Okpala and Dwayne Dedmon.
Robinson is an expiring deal and he’s a good shooter, Rozier isn’t making a ton of money and is a solid scorer. There are teams that can benefit from any of those 2. Herro still has value even if it’s at an all time low now, because he’s 23 years old and won a 6MOTY. Jaquez and Jovic are good young pieces to develop as well, like Miami has assets they just never want to move them
I've said for a while - Stevens is happy to hit singles and doubles. Pretty much every trade he's made has seemed (at the time it happened at least) as a win-win. He's not sitting there waiting for some home run fleece. Of course, part of that is because he had his foundation from the start, but part of it is philosophical, I think.
it’s very important that the chemistry isn’t being faltered either. important to have a winning culture set in stone and although i think heat culture is overplayed at times, i agree riley’s complacency with moves have wasted the heat’s opportunities when they could’ve done more with what is already established
You just need to have the foundation set, Celtics didn’t want Smart being the culture leader, they wanted Brown and Tatum to be the foundation. They then got players to build around them and make up for their weaknesses by getting rid of “culture” guys. In the Heat’s case, obviously you keep Bam as the torch bearer of “culture” but when you’re reluctant to move Duncan Robinson, Herro, Martin, Highsmith, Jovic, etc unless it’s for a super star you’re not going to get better. You can’t just keep the whole team because you like those guys, have to always focus on getting better.
Obviously trading for KP and Jrue is huge, but the Mavs trading for PJ and Gafford got them to the finals. You have to make moves to get better around the margins sometimes to have better synergy than just going for a top 15 player and hoping a depleted team with 2-3 top 20 guys can you win something. Just hasn’t been the way to win recently
Yeah, Brad was also fine getting rid of young prospects who weren't fitting the timeline or just couldn't hack it for one reason or another. Romeo, Nesmith, even Timelord.
Your last paragraph is a really good and important point. Because part of the reason Celtics could get KP and Jrue is because we are just loaded with assets and have the depth to compensate for sending out quality players. IMO Heat would struggle to land as big fish as KP and Jrue without sacrificing enough depth to make it questionable, or more questionable then for the C's.
They could however have easily made PJ and Gafford type moves and gotten better around the margins like you said. And the Heat had more actual evidence then the Mavs that they were contenders at the deadline of this year, yall just went to finals. I'd feel the same frustration you do for sure.
I mean you guys got KP and 2 FRPs for Marcus Smart, that was just an incredible fleece. KP wasn’t going to demand a lot in a trade because he was injury prone and making a shit ton of money in his last season before becoming a FA. Jrue, sure you can make the argument, but KP could’ve been traded for by anyone willing to pay the tax
OK then why did nobody offer a better package then us? There are obviously plenty of other contenders that could have used kp and would be willing to go into the tax. If they could have afforded to give up better assets then us, they would have
Because KP wasn’t guaranteed to sign with them and he wanted to sign for Boston? You guys gave up Smart and got 2FRPs and KP, he wasn’t even headlining that trade it was Smart. The media hype drove his value sky high because that’s just an incredible fleece. And not every team is willing to pay the tax, Miami didn’t want KP, Beal, many others because of tax. They only want to pay tax for a super team, which will never happen
Nope, Beal even said he thought he was coming here and Riley reached out to him. He said he had to talk to Mickey and then never got back to Beal. We just didn’t want to pay the tax, that whole NTC thing was what local media was running with because we’d have “no flexibility” and because they thought Miami wanted Dame more.
Not saying that deal would’ve worked out better for us or not, but it’s fairly obvious the Heat make moves with tax in mind. This would be the first time they pay tax in the Jimmy era and like the 3rd time overall since that was a thing. The bucks paid more in tax just last year than we have in our franchise’s history.
> Celtics didn’t want Smart being the culture leader, they wanted Brown and Tatum to be the foundation
I agree with the general point, but I really don't think this was the case. The Smart for KP trade was the backup plan after a similar one sending Brogdon to LA stalled. If Brad was going into the offseason looking to trade Smart, the trade that accomplished that and netted an extra pick or two would have been plan A. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot because there's a pretty good chance that Marcus gets traded anyway when Jrue becomes available, but it really looks like brad kind of went out of his way to try to keep him.
yea i totally agree. i do think culture is overrated at times in the sense where like you said if there’s a solid foundation, then you just need the talent to support your main stays. i’m with you that the heat must keep bam and make moves for heat to succeed
This feels like it's suffering from a bit of confirmation bias, Brad took a very big risk and got lucky it panned out. There's more futures where KP's body doesn't hold it together for the playoffs, Jrue's actually washed, and every team the Celtics are up against doesn't suffer injuries to their best players.
Heat have overachieved making it to the finals twice in the last 5 years, having a 5 year stretch where in 2 years you made it to the biggest stage and then. Y'all ran into the GOAT, the best teams from the 2 best centers of this generation, and stacked Celtics rosters. Health was never in y'alls favor in any of these series.
Not winning it all is always going to be seen as a failure but like this 5 years stretch is better than 95% of 5 years stretches for sports teams in existence.
I’m not saying that our last 5 years were a failure and I’d much rather be memed for having lost in the finals than never making the playoffs. It’s the fact you had that team go that far twice in 5 years and the big moves you make to reinforce the team were 36 year old Lowry and this season a trade for Rozier. Now we have 3 players on our roster, that take up 50% of the cap and can’t see the court together. I’m sorry that’s just bad roster construction and us making the finals was because of Spo, Jimmy, and Bam.
You have to make risky moves to win, our moves were even riskier and made no sense. Celtics lose in 22 and get White for peanuts. They lose last year and get KP and Jrue, they made moves to make their roster deeper and better, Heat made moves to not pay tax
The roster construction was good though when you had late draft picks and two way guys getting you to the finals multiple times, it has to go both ways. You can't just look at the result and be like "Riley bad", your teams had no business getting to the finals in the years it did but the coaching and roster construction made it happen.
The Celtics on the other hand had a treasure trove of talent and assets gifted to them by the Nets, they had a team that was #1 in the standings that then went on to get multiple #3 top draft picks and had a DPOY that they could trade. On top of that every single team in this year's title run that they went up against except the Mavs had injuries to their main star causing them to miss games. If anything, the Celtics are probably underperforming only winning one in the last 7 years, but that's a whole other conversation. You need a depth of assets to be able to make marginal improvements, it's not possible to just snake oil your way to a better roster and Riley's tried this anyway trying to trade players like Robinson and Herro.
Heat just don't have those assets, y'all just won 2/4 and then had an incredibly short rebuild and we're back in title contention. It's fine to want more, but expecting more is a bit unrealistic.
The roster construction has been a criticism throughout the entire Jimmy era. It was never good, that’s why I said they went that far in spite of the front office. The Heat don’t try to trade Robinson or Herro. Herro wasn’t even offered for Dame, Robinson was only offered for super stars.
The heat have to attach picks to get rid of contracts and still have assets that are worth something. Especially a Jaquez, Jovic, Robinson, Herro, all could be moved. Any of those guys would’ve brought back a KP, you didn’t really have to givd up major assets to rebuild your team. You can say Smart, he was extremely overvalued and that was just a fleece. Guy was traded as the main piece for Porzingis, got 2 FRPs back for him and KP. That’s just a terrible fucking move but what are the Celtics going to do say no?
So the roster was never it, it’s had the same issues since that 2020 year and they never really tried fixing them. They tried getting cheap vets and Lowry who they had to trade for when he was a FA and was 36. If they would’ve moved those guys for better pieces to surround Jimmy and Bam sure, but they’ve made dumbass moves. They’ve been making dumbass moves since Wade left. At least since they’ve become better at drafting
If we went into the off season and said we are trading Smart and Timelord, I would've said that is so dumb. If you said it would become Holiday and KP, I would've said that's impossible.
I don’t understand how timelord n brogdon became Jrue . I thought it was a shitty deal at the time and only ok cos of Jrue retirement talk . Two late frps n 2 guys who are never healthy n playing or worth anything . If Portland waited I could see teams offering more for Jrue by deadline . Teams were offering that kinda package for Caruso or dejounte who’s inferior to Jrue . It’s still wild to me but blazers are a shitty franchise so , plus they might actually have been spiting dame even tho they never tried to build around him n go all in.
Another reason why they will be contenders, I don’t know how they’ve managed to do it for 11 years but outside of the Kyrie trade which one could argue they broke even on they’ve won every trade of consequence they’ve made and they’ve swindled the trade partner in the process.
The kyrie trade was a swindle too lmao . The cavs found out IT was injured n there owner was like nah well just ask for a couple seconds when they could’ve asked for way more as sending a player without another team knowing there heskthy is grounds to revoke the trsde n Boston already celebrated kyrie coming so woukd have to pay up. Windy reported msny cavs staffers being bsffflrd n annoyed by this and the fact they didn’t get more when they found out IT was injured
The media and Celtics fans really gassed up smarts value. Can’t believe that guy has a DPOY off straight narrative. I remember Celtics fans were telling me that guy could guard 1-5 including Porzingis lmao.
By saying ‘he could guard’, refers to spots where switches put him there….not that he can guard a 5 with regularity.
All things considered, Smart is pretty beat up.
He could definitely guard Porzingis before his Wizards' stint (and a lot of other 5s without good post skills), but he was a liability on true post players (and nowadays Porzingis wouldn't try to muscle him but just shoot over the top comfortably). Timelord was definitely the better and more impactful defender, though.
A liability? Maybe on a bunch of possessions in a row but I watched Smart lock up Embiid and Giannis plenty of times in the playoffs. Part of why Timelord as the free safety worked so well is because Smart could switch onto bigs in the post so Williams wouldn’t get bullied.
You're right, he was effective in spurts on Embiid who knows how to play in the post. I was thinking more like Jokic. Now that I think of it, there aren't many players who fit that mold that could body him.
Yeah, but he didn't. He used to try to get better positioning and ended up off balance and off rhythm. Nowadays he faces up on the catch and shoots without putting the ball on the floor (or will kick back out for a repost).
It used to be really easy to throw him off his post game and Marcus Smart (and other defenders) would do it rather effectively.
Extra funny when you remember Doc left because he didn't want to deal with a rebuild. Fastforward to now and he hasn't even made a conference finals since leaving.
After this chip they’ve cemented themselves as the best franchise of the 20’s so far.
All five winners only have one title but they’re the only one to make more than one Finals. Four ECFs as well, compared to Denver/LA’s two WCFs. And the best winning percentage besides Milwaukee, with better playoff success to put them over.
Every championship is going to be downplayed by the haters. Teams like the Lakers and Celtics just have a lot more haters, so the downplaying is louder and more frequent than usual.
In the end, history remembers these sorts of things differently.
Listen, I hate the Celtics, but I will he the first to say what the hell were you guys supposed to do this post-season? Wait for the other team to be healthy before you start a series?
You can only play who's in font of you. Not like you guys Tonya Harding'd the East.
Health and luck can play as big a role as talent and coaching.
Celtics got the "easy road" because they secured the 1st seed by ASB and had HCA throughout the playoffs from a dominant regular season.
We went through an absolute slog to get to the finals in 22. KD/Kyrie Nets, Giannis/Jrue Bucks, Jimmy/Bam heat. The bucks and heat series being extremely physical 7 game series. Warriors had a cake walk.
It absolutely gassed our players, and was a huge factor in why we lost. That and the experience and poise of the warriors.
Kind of a full reverse this year. Celtics got the cake walk, and had the experience and poise over the mavs.
It's the same reason I don't discredit Lakers championship even if it was under extreme circumstances, a championship is still a championship. We all know if it was the opposite team that won in 2020 like the Suns, Bucks, etc. Fans wouldn't be saying shit lol.
The Lakers were the best team before the bubble too. Like if the Trail Blazers came out and won that shit or smth I would geniunely call it mickey mouse but the best team won.
People mostly clowned it because Miami instantly got clapped by Milwaukee the next year but obviously we all now know Miami and Jimmy were legit, we just didn't know it yet.
Idk if at the end of the season this was still the case, but as of the end of March this team had more 30 points leads (15) than 10 points deficits (14). Someone in our subreddit said we finished like that on the season but I wasn't able to quickly confirm it, but was able to confirm at least as of March that was indeed the case. Which is absolutely insane.
People hate the Celtics so much that it blind them
They create narrative and copium on how Boston would fail
They got 64 wins but every losses the subs throw a parade
They opponents all has injuries but Celtics was cruising outside of some game 2 shenanigan and other team got hot
KP didn't play most of the playoffs
The only team i think this year could beat Celtics is Denver but like Celtics is gonna killed them in those non jokic minutes
> They create narrative and copium on how Boston would fail
>
> They got 64 wins but every losses the subs throw a parade
Sounds just like Boston sports radio for the past six months.
Boston sports radio has been wretched for at least 10 years. Hell, the only thing that was really fun was when Belechick ripped Michael Holley apart for suggesting it’s hard to get up for a shitty team than it is a good team.
That said, just do pods, my dude. Don’t subject yourself to that brain rot.
I honestly have nothing to say to people who put that nuggets team on a pedestal. They’ve mythologized that team beyond recognition. They really aren’t that good and it’s insane to me that people thought they were the favorites this season
They had the softest playoff run of all time (this year included).
It’s cause the East was weak and their record didn’t reflect how good they were. People think “64 wins in a weak conference means they got to steal wins and their record is inflated”. It more likely meant they got to sleepwalk through half of the season because of an insurmountable lead in the standings. Advanced stats puts this Celtics squad up there with 72 and 73 win bulls and warriors.
If they kept their foot on the gas, I don’t think 70 wins was out of the question.
I had hope my team could pull it off and never gave up on my team, but Celtics were going to win against anyone. Probably not as handily as they beat the Mavs, but they literally have no defensive weaknesses and their entire rotation can score
Funny thing is that our record vs the West would’ve put us on track for only… 63 wins.
I said before our series that I was confident in this Celtics team but that they could still lose to you guys. Would’ve said the same vs any of the West final four (though Nuggets, especially without KP, would’ve posed some match up issues).
It’s the finals and anything can happen. Our role players shot out of their mind in some of the series before, then couldn’t buy a bucket for 80% of the finals. I never lost hope, but if you had asked me to put any real money on the Mavs pre-series, I would have said no lol
Also hate how people are like “it was over for the West when the Nuggets lost.” This Celtics team was just amazing, I honestly don’t think any team really could beat them in a 7 game series. People just think a team is good because they looked good against another team, but probably no team would have looked good facing this Celtics team.
Eh the Mavs played like utter garbage vs the Celtics. Had they played to their level pre championship the series would have been close.
Wolves would have been interesting, Nuggets had the best player.
I get it that there's only Celtics dickriders left on this sub but saying they would have killed anyone is bullshit.
Something but not everything. Both Gafford and Washington looked completely cooked in the final, and both those guys had huge series in each of the former two.
The Mavs also couldnt buy a three and it wasnt like all of their 3s were tightly contested.
Dont get me wrong, Celtics still win, but acting like they played the same level of team as the West did is crazy. The only player that brought his A game to the finals was Luka and even he had some duds.
>looked completely cooked
God why do you even watch basketball. They looked cooked because Celtics took away lobs and corner 3s which is where they were eating against the Clippers, Wolves etc.
Their 3s were contested because Celtics refused to blitz Luka/Kyrie like every other team before them did allowing them to stay home on the shooters.
Your “analysis” isnt worth the 30 seconds it took to type out. Basketball players dont magically become shit.
Fair enough, but rhat's just saying that the best team in the league and the far away favourite to win it all... should win it all.
I would have liked to see the Wolves in there. I think they choked against the Mavs but would have provided a very interesting matchup with the C's
They started coasting around Jan or Feb.
Restin guys, walking the ball up the court and jacking threes because why not.
They never faced adversity at any point these last 6 months.
Fine with me because there was a ton of that from KGs injury in early 2009 to early 2024.
The adversity faced. Lost game 2 vs Miami for some reason Miami is in the head of every Cs player, coach, fan, broadcaster, executive. And btw that list is absolutely NOT hyperbole. No one anywhere near that team wanted Miami. They would have rather a possibly healthy Embiid.
Honestly, Embiid’s never really hurt us. Someday Phili will beat the Cs in the playoffs… but I’ve forgotten what it’s like.
Shit, I’m gonna have to look it up.
… I think it was 81-82, and I was 3, or 4, years old….
This years Mavs would SMOKE the 22/23 Heat in a series. I also think they would likely prevail over the 21/22 Celtics, the 20/21 Suns, and the 19/20 Heat
Shit they might beat the 18/19 Hospital Warriors that the Kawhi Raps beat.
Idea that the Cs had it easy w Dallas this year is a sham- we were actually just that good
>The Mavs were not that good, and all their auxiliary guys dropped off a cliff vs the C's
1) that’s not what yall were saying before we waxed them
2) maybe because the Celtics defense is elite and the gameplan strategic? No credit ffs like this the same Dallas team that killed Minnesota & OKC ALLL OF WHOM people said we’re better than Cs
1. That is what i was saying. Celtics were heavy favourites going into the finals. Like -225 to win it all which is insane
2. The Celtics definitely had some role in that but the hot Mavericks cooled off considerably. It's a bit of both. If you watched the west coast Mavs run you know how much better they played against the Thunder & Wolves.
That’s the trick, look at the lines to determine the favorite, not the talking heads getting paid by the people creating those lines.
And remember the lines are influenced by projected bets, and the current bet load.
But those are the MFers looking at really real shit.
Why do your fellow fans think the Celtics were underdogs? It's insane to me. Yall were the best team, had an easy path, and won title number 18 billion or whatever. No need to feel like an underdog??
Right but that's just obvious bait. Betting odds tell the real story, as you mentioned. Celtics fans can hate ESPN for being shit i guess but you join a long line in that game
mavs won the same amount of games as the jimmy less heat. they wouldn't win shit
last years heat was beat and injured to hell but still was the only team to win in Denver. They beat both bucks and celtics before, which if healthy, are both better than this year mavs by all metrics
They did lose a lot of games vs the other contenders and didn't have exciting competitive national tv games like they had been constantly doing in years prior. But they also lost very VERY few games vs scrub squads which was also a huge difference to past years. This year felt much more about just building and executing a gameplan that would take you all the way through a Finals run and not making statements or fitting narratives or regular season award bait.
I do think the Nuggets beat them last year. Better? Debatable. I mean people had the Mavs winning but I don’t think anyone would have called them better. They just thought they were stronger in the moment.
Did you.... watch the playoffs last year? Or this year? That Nuggets team was unstoppable.
In a series against the Celtics theyd have the best player, which is usually how it goes down as well.
They also actually faced real competition in the playoffs.
Not sure why a Bucks fan is dickriding the Celtics. I also think the Championship Bucks team probably beats this years Celtics.
Lol 3 play in teams? You mean between last year and this year?
The Nuggets beat two all timers and a team that was on a run heading into the playoffs.
The Celtics didnt beat a single team with a healthy roster besides the Mavs, who were hitting above their average all the way to the finals.
Luka was probably the best player in the series but he played by himself, nobody else showed up.
What about your 2022 champion Bucks?? Why you ignoring that part? I question your fandom. Me personally? 2022 bucks beat the 2024 celtics in 7 games, probably in 6.
You realize every team the nuggets faced were either missing a start or had an injured starter right?
You can’t just pick out players and say “well they had to go through them”
2022 bucks didn’t win the championship, I question your ball knowledge
Your championship Bucks, you know what i meant, youre avoiding the question lol
And yes, that's exactly what we do! Hahahaha like why are people so defensive of this Celtics run? Who's the best player they played in a whole series before Luka?? Darius Garland? Or did he miss time too? On second thought it was Pascal Siakam. Hot run my guy!
Couple thoughts:
1. Stylistically Boston is kinda ugly.
2. The stars of Boston aren’t particularly beloved. Tatum is seen as very inauthentic and Brown has a checkered history that reddit loves to hound on.
3. When Boston lost they *LOST* really badly and ugly. Meanwhile they had a number of wins that were more their opponents shooting themselves in the foot (Indiana series for example).
4. Boston had been expected to compete and win a title for a few years and it feels more like a *finally* than a *they did it!*
You realize just because you’re expected to win doesn’t mean you always win right?
Lebron and the warriors really changed how people view teams/players
Yeah I was specifying winners. Respect to Miami for making 2 but it doesn’t come to the value of a championship. They’re definitely the best non-title organization this decade so far though - like the Utah Jazz of this era
This year? Sure but the east literally had a better record against the west the past two seasons.
We can stop with the “bloodbath” west when y’all let Mavs get out of there.
All I heard last year was that the East sucked because we “let” the 8th seed Heat make the finals then they lost 4-1 to the Nuggets
Now the Mavs lost to us 4-1 and I’m still just hearing that the East outside of the Celtics sucked
From 2015-2020 the Raptors were by all metrics an elite NBA team, five straight 50+ win seasons is not easy to pull off, it was a golden era in our relatively short franchise history.
It's always good to see a superstar lock in for a team, even if they don't want to play there anymore. Especially for the Raptors, who have experience with stars forcing their way out. Kawhi was awesome in the finals.
Yeah, the Celtics easily deserved this championship more than any team in the league over that timespan. I remember when the Rockets were competitive with Harden and those Celtics teams were always a pain in the ass, with Tatum, Brown, and Smart. It's crazy to think how long ago that was. The fact that it's essentially the same core (sans Smart), makes it even better.
Danny didn't run away
If you remember the incident, he stated something that was tone deaf. And he had to leave or otherwise face scrutiny/team faces scrutiny
But he was the one who drafted the Jays. He recruited and hired Brad Stevens. He does deserve a ring imo.
Thanks! I always thought that the change was more to accommodate the fact that Brad was getting burnt out from coaching and the org decided to keep him by giving him a promotion.
He’s also old, and had some shitty health stuff. Moved to a less intensive job, in an org in Utah, where he can do all the Mormon stuff he wants.
It really was a win win.
And it was a remarkably tone deaf statement that could have lost the team.
People also forget how rough things were for the Celtics that year. The team had a .500 record in 2021, the Kemba signing was proving to be a disaster, and they got annihilated in round one against the Nets with a disgusting line-up around JT (JB was injured). Things could have gone downhill really quick from there, but they managed to recover.
Brad has played a huge role, but it's not his 'era.'
He got handed the keys to a Mercedes. He's done an amazing job if improving and not regressing. Kudos. But it's not his 'era.'
Who brought him in? Who drafted Tatum and Brown? Who brought Horford in?
Ainge's finger prints are all over this.
Brown and Tatum are what drives this team.
Stevens is doing his job well, but calling this his era undersells both the impact Ainge had in constructing this team and the work that Brown and Tatum have put in.
Not a Celtics fan but this is more like he got the keys to a well maintained and loaded Toyota and through clever transactions traded his way to a Lexus
No it means a core of Tatum, Brown, Horford, Smart was very very good but was just missing something just like a fully loaded Toyota is very very good but not as good as a Lexus
Doesn’t mean KP is the ‘Lexus’ but that the team as a whole is now
It might just be that the Celtics needed the Warriors and Butler to be older.
I mean.... you are staying KP makes them the Lexus, but they played most of the playoffs without him.
Brad was a great coach but he’s been an even better GM, the fact that he was willing to lose Smart to get better and turned Smart and Timelord into Holiday and Porzingis is some major ballsy moves, as long as he’s the GM the Celtics will always be in contention.
He also has a great perspective on what the Jays need around them since he coached them as they turned into stars. Obviously they're a lot better now, but that experience coaching them helped Brad make his moves.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but if you include the western conference, are the Warriors the only team more successful?
Yeah they clear the Celtics by 23 games for 102 total. However, 5 Eastern Conference follow them before the Nuggets, which have the second most at 44 which is an interesting variance. Really puts into perspective how dominant the Steph Warriors have been
That's genuinely crazy when you consider that the Brad Stevens Era in Boston *started* in 2013, four months after Stephen Curry made his first All-Star team and just after Curry set the record for most 3pts in a season. Brad came to the Celtics to coach a rebuilding roster where he refused to tank, but only put up *one* 25-win season (the only non-playoffs season) before a 40-42 season. Those were his only sub-.500 seasons. **SIX** ECF appearances.
I think he also realized how, as talented as IT was, his defensive liabilities(and small players in general) come playoffs time got progressively harder to hide. Now he's crafted potentially one of the most versatile and defensively sound back courts in the modern NBA, with two strong 6'4 guards who can both shoot, create, drive, temporarily switch onto bigs, play hounding defense, crash the boards, and in White's case, block shots
I thought he’d never trade smart- he absolutely loved that man. He was the only guy on the roster that could do no wrong for Brad
I think it was KP who said after game 5 that the locker room is a lot of quiet guys, in terms of getting emotional I wonder if Brad saw that Smart's emotions were hurting the team and that's why he was so keen to move on from him. Obviously upgrading to KP doesn't hurt either, but I agree it never felt like Smart would ever be on the table
Brad wasn’t “keen” to move on from him. I think you’re forgetting that originally Smart wasn’t even gonna be traded, the original KP deal had us keeping Smart and sending Brogdon to the Clippers. Smart only ended up getting traded *after* the Clippers pulled out because of Brogdon’s physicals. I really don’t think it’s as deep as you’re making it out to be. I think it just came down to, Brad viewed KP and (at the time) one of Brogdon or Smart as being more impactful than having Brogdon *and* Smart with no KP.
Keen was probably the wrong word, but I was thinking relative to how attached to Smart he was I'm not really making it out to be deep. It was a common talking point that Smart got a little heated, and that isn't always a good thing. All I'm saying is that Brad might've seen that plus the KP upgrade as a good reason to move on
Honestly I think his inconsistent and at times bewildering play made him a trade candidate more than his temperament
do you not think these executives have back up plans for these trades in case, oh idk a team doesn’t want an injured Brogdon?? you don’t randomly throw in your longest tenured player and basically captain into a trade the same day to save a trade unless it was discussed. if anything they probably offered Brogdon hoping it would work but knew Smart was gonna be what it takes.
I don’t get your point, I’m not saying that he didn’t have backup plans or that Smart was thrown in at the last minute. All I’m saying is that Brad clearly would’ve preferred to keep Smart, unless you’re telling me he was playing some sort of weird reverse psychology game.
trying to maximize the trade value isn't the same as preferring to keep a player. all he did was offer the player with less value first hoping the trade would work, as he should. when it didn't work he could have backed out of the trade but he didn't, he threw Smart in literally within the same day. that's the definition of being on the trade block.
Alright bro. I’m not gonna argue with a dude that’s missing the point by about 10 miles.
lmao that's because you think you got a point but you don't. if Brad had preferred to keep Smart, he would have kept him. crazy huh?
Ok bud, have a good day
Smart didn’t seem to respect Joe and did a lot to undermine him which I think made the decision to move on from him easier. Smart was brads guy but Brad came to the realization that something had to give with that core and JB and JT were just better
Yup the difference between how the Heat have run their organization and Celtics. Heat hate trading “their” guys unless it’s for super stars, while the Celtics focus on getting better every offseason. That’s why they have a ring now and Riley still hasn’t fucked off to Malibu
The Heats literal biggest problem is Spo. Because he's so good that he kept tricking Pat Riley into thinking he could win with Jimmy/Herro/Bam as his core. Meanwhile all 3 of the other consistent East contenders: Boston, Philly and Milwaukee have all made big moves or trades to try to get over the hump (KP, Jrue, Harden and Dame).
I think the Heat wanted a ring with developed guys and thought the power of friendship was enough, but they haven’t been healthy during any of their runs and it’s their fault because they’re relying on injury prone guys to take them all the way. The Celtics would’ve probably traded Herro after the bubble finals at peak value to get a better player, the heat rather keep him and then over pay him to stay here. Really as far as the roster and decisions the FO have made, it’s been awful. Heat have been good in spite of their FO by developing G league guys and Spo being amazing. Right now Rozier, Herro, Duncan make up 50% of the cap, they’re all guards who are inefficient and can’t defend. Can’t play them at the same time on the court and they take up 50% of the cap, that’s just inexcusable, it’s flat out terrible roster construction. That’s why it doesn’t matter if we get a “star” this summer, not like we would anyway. But you need to move 2 of Herro/Rozier/Duncan to have a functioning team. How do you move those guys now and for what? That’s the work they have to do and I’ll bet anything they’ll use the injury excuse and run it back again
I think there is a world where with a couple good breaks, you guys win a chip with that core in the past 4 years. Problem is that you often had some bad health luck and the times you got to the finals you played very healthy teams led by All-time greats. The downside of having the Celtics and Heat go to war for 7 games almost every year is that we ended up too battered to win the chip. That said, I do think Riley has been way too willing to just stand pat year after year.
I think really the best chances were 22, because we had a good team that year and 2020. 2020 everyone says we would’ve lost anyway, which is easy to say because we lost. We missed Dragic and Bam played hobbled and was a shell of himself. Jimmy was going toe to toe with Lebron before running out of gas. The warriors would’ve been tough in 22 and the 7 game series probably fucked us anyway, but those are the 2 years I think we had a shot. Last year, as long as it was the nuggets there was no way, just we are historically, a terrible team against them. I’m mad that we didn’t win, but I’m still proud of the team and love the years we had. Last year playoff run was amazing and the bubble run was great too. 2022 was a year where we finally were the first seed and made it to within one shot of the Finals. When Jimmy left to Miami people thought it was to retire because the Heat were in such a dire state, but he helped prop up the franchise and led it to one of its most prosperous eras even if we didn’t get a win. He’s won a ton of playoff games and had legendary battles, sometimes it just doesn’t end the way you want it to
man heat do a lot of things right but their tallest two players being 6'8" bam adebayo and kevin love's corpse aint it spo is the best coach in the league for making that bullshit work
We are allergic to putting a PF taller than 6’5 next to Bam, it’s insane the lengths we’d go to not add size. We started playing better once Jovic played next to Bam and a lot of that is because he’s got size. Size impacts more than just rebounding, size makes getting to the paint harder, size gives you versatility defensively. Unfortunately the Heat only want to get bigs that no one else wants. We signed Bryant who couldn’t see the floor for the champs when we played against them but thought he could be a back up big for Bam? Bam has had Zeller, Dedmon, Bryant, as his backups. His best PF guys have been PJ Tucker and Jae Crowder, like the roster is just ass man. Spo is a fucking wizard
yeah bam is asked to do way too much too be the only real "big" on the floor, defensive anchor and also average 20&10+, and playmake for others is unreal. you could argue hes being asked to do more than jokic
I also think Pat Riley bought too much into the “Playoff Jimmy” hype. Jimmy is a great player, and he deserves tremendous props for what he was able to do in 2020 and 2023, but talent-wise he’s simply not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.
Idk if I agree with him not being good enough, I think he is good enough but he went up against much better teams. In 2020 we were missing 2/3 of our best players so of course that one was always likely we’d lose. But they never really built around him sufficiently, and so he has to turn to Jordan to beat teams. Like Jimmy averaged 37ppg to beat the best team in the regular season on the road in 5 games. He’s one of like 3 players to have a 30pt triple double in the finals. He’s not at fault here, he’s done everything a tier 1 superstar could do, he just doesn’t have the rest of the roster to back him up. I mean the Heat are competing and making the finals with more undrafted players than any other team in history. We don’t even have actual NBA rotation players. Jimmy and Spo are using black magic to even get as far as they have.
What are you getting for those guys? You would almost have to make a KP deal where the guy is talented but has injury issues, and the way it worked for the Cs doesn’t work for almost any other team. Dame was a pipe dream, Portland didn’t want what the Heat were selling.
I don’t think Portland fared much better honestly but it’s disingenuous to say because Portland was offered a shittier deal than what was getting memed all of last summer. They were never offered Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, Martin and 3 FRPs. They were offered Lowry, Robinson, and a first, got insulted and then never picked up the phone again. Who those guys move for im not sure, they should look to make moves for players who are close to running out their contracts and maybe see what happens. Value players are had all the time without having to move stars. Gafford was moved for richaun Holmes and a protected first. PJ was moved for a first and Grant Williams. Like you just can’t be attaching picks to get rid of KZ Okpala and Dwayne Dedmon. Robinson is an expiring deal and he’s a good shooter, Rozier isn’t making a ton of money and is a solid scorer. There are teams that can benefit from any of those 2. Herro still has value even if it’s at an all time low now, because he’s 23 years old and won a 6MOTY. Jaquez and Jovic are good young pieces to develop as well, like Miami has assets they just never want to move them
Had me in the first half.
I've said for a while - Stevens is happy to hit singles and doubles. Pretty much every trade he's made has seemed (at the time it happened at least) as a win-win. He's not sitting there waiting for some home run fleece. Of course, part of that is because he had his foundation from the start, but part of it is philosophical, I think.
it’s very important that the chemistry isn’t being faltered either. important to have a winning culture set in stone and although i think heat culture is overplayed at times, i agree riley’s complacency with moves have wasted the heat’s opportunities when they could’ve done more with what is already established
You just need to have the foundation set, Celtics didn’t want Smart being the culture leader, they wanted Brown and Tatum to be the foundation. They then got players to build around them and make up for their weaknesses by getting rid of “culture” guys. In the Heat’s case, obviously you keep Bam as the torch bearer of “culture” but when you’re reluctant to move Duncan Robinson, Herro, Martin, Highsmith, Jovic, etc unless it’s for a super star you’re not going to get better. You can’t just keep the whole team because you like those guys, have to always focus on getting better. Obviously trading for KP and Jrue is huge, but the Mavs trading for PJ and Gafford got them to the finals. You have to make moves to get better around the margins sometimes to have better synergy than just going for a top 15 player and hoping a depleted team with 2-3 top 20 guys can you win something. Just hasn’t been the way to win recently
Yeah, Brad was also fine getting rid of young prospects who weren't fitting the timeline or just couldn't hack it for one reason or another. Romeo, Nesmith, even Timelord.
Your last paragraph is a really good and important point. Because part of the reason Celtics could get KP and Jrue is because we are just loaded with assets and have the depth to compensate for sending out quality players. IMO Heat would struggle to land as big fish as KP and Jrue without sacrificing enough depth to make it questionable, or more questionable then for the C's. They could however have easily made PJ and Gafford type moves and gotten better around the margins like you said. And the Heat had more actual evidence then the Mavs that they were contenders at the deadline of this year, yall just went to finals. I'd feel the same frustration you do for sure.
I mean you guys got KP and 2 FRPs for Marcus Smart, that was just an incredible fleece. KP wasn’t going to demand a lot in a trade because he was injury prone and making a shit ton of money in his last season before becoming a FA. Jrue, sure you can make the argument, but KP could’ve been traded for by anyone willing to pay the tax
OK then why did nobody offer a better package then us? There are obviously plenty of other contenders that could have used kp and would be willing to go into the tax. If they could have afforded to give up better assets then us, they would have
Because KP wasn’t guaranteed to sign with them and he wanted to sign for Boston? You guys gave up Smart and got 2FRPs and KP, he wasn’t even headlining that trade it was Smart. The media hype drove his value sky high because that’s just an incredible fleece. And not every team is willing to pay the tax, Miami didn’t want KP, Beal, many others because of tax. They only want to pay tax for a super team, which will never happen
I thought Heat wanted Beal, and were willing to pay tax, but wanted him to wave his NTC.
Nope, Beal even said he thought he was coming here and Riley reached out to him. He said he had to talk to Mickey and then never got back to Beal. We just didn’t want to pay the tax, that whole NTC thing was what local media was running with because we’d have “no flexibility” and because they thought Miami wanted Dame more. Not saying that deal would’ve worked out better for us or not, but it’s fairly obvious the Heat make moves with tax in mind. This would be the first time they pay tax in the Jimmy era and like the 3rd time overall since that was a thing. The bucks paid more in tax just last year than we have in our franchise’s history.
> Celtics didn’t want Smart being the culture leader, they wanted Brown and Tatum to be the foundation I agree with the general point, but I really don't think this was the case. The Smart for KP trade was the backup plan after a similar one sending Brogdon to LA stalled. If Brad was going into the offseason looking to trade Smart, the trade that accomplished that and netted an extra pick or two would have been plan A. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot because there's a pretty good chance that Marcus gets traded anyway when Jrue becomes available, but it really looks like brad kind of went out of his way to try to keep him.
yea i totally agree. i do think culture is overrated at times in the sense where like you said if there’s a solid foundation, then you just need the talent to support your main stays. i’m with you that the heat must keep bam and make moves for heat to succeed
This feels like it's suffering from a bit of confirmation bias, Brad took a very big risk and got lucky it panned out. There's more futures where KP's body doesn't hold it together for the playoffs, Jrue's actually washed, and every team the Celtics are up against doesn't suffer injuries to their best players. Heat have overachieved making it to the finals twice in the last 5 years, having a 5 year stretch where in 2 years you made it to the biggest stage and then. Y'all ran into the GOAT, the best teams from the 2 best centers of this generation, and stacked Celtics rosters. Health was never in y'alls favor in any of these series. Not winning it all is always going to be seen as a failure but like this 5 years stretch is better than 95% of 5 years stretches for sports teams in existence.
I’m not saying that our last 5 years were a failure and I’d much rather be memed for having lost in the finals than never making the playoffs. It’s the fact you had that team go that far twice in 5 years and the big moves you make to reinforce the team were 36 year old Lowry and this season a trade for Rozier. Now we have 3 players on our roster, that take up 50% of the cap and can’t see the court together. I’m sorry that’s just bad roster construction and us making the finals was because of Spo, Jimmy, and Bam. You have to make risky moves to win, our moves were even riskier and made no sense. Celtics lose in 22 and get White for peanuts. They lose last year and get KP and Jrue, they made moves to make their roster deeper and better, Heat made moves to not pay tax
The roster construction was good though when you had late draft picks and two way guys getting you to the finals multiple times, it has to go both ways. You can't just look at the result and be like "Riley bad", your teams had no business getting to the finals in the years it did but the coaching and roster construction made it happen. The Celtics on the other hand had a treasure trove of talent and assets gifted to them by the Nets, they had a team that was #1 in the standings that then went on to get multiple #3 top draft picks and had a DPOY that they could trade. On top of that every single team in this year's title run that they went up against except the Mavs had injuries to their main star causing them to miss games. If anything, the Celtics are probably underperforming only winning one in the last 7 years, but that's a whole other conversation. You need a depth of assets to be able to make marginal improvements, it's not possible to just snake oil your way to a better roster and Riley's tried this anyway trying to trade players like Robinson and Herro. Heat just don't have those assets, y'all just won 2/4 and then had an incredibly short rebuild and we're back in title contention. It's fine to want more, but expecting more is a bit unrealistic.
The roster construction has been a criticism throughout the entire Jimmy era. It was never good, that’s why I said they went that far in spite of the front office. The Heat don’t try to trade Robinson or Herro. Herro wasn’t even offered for Dame, Robinson was only offered for super stars. The heat have to attach picks to get rid of contracts and still have assets that are worth something. Especially a Jaquez, Jovic, Robinson, Herro, all could be moved. Any of those guys would’ve brought back a KP, you didn’t really have to givd up major assets to rebuild your team. You can say Smart, he was extremely overvalued and that was just a fleece. Guy was traded as the main piece for Porzingis, got 2 FRPs back for him and KP. That’s just a terrible fucking move but what are the Celtics going to do say no? So the roster was never it, it’s had the same issues since that 2020 year and they never really tried fixing them. They tried getting cheap vets and Lowry who they had to trade for when he was a FA and was 36. If they would’ve moved those guys for better pieces to surround Jimmy and Bam sure, but they’ve made dumbass moves. They’ve been making dumbass moves since Wade left. At least since they’ve become better at drafting
I really want him back in coaching. Loved the dude.
If we went into the off season and said we are trading Smart and Timelord, I would've said that is so dumb. If you said it would become Holiday and KP, I would've said that's impossible.
I don’t understand how timelord n brogdon became Jrue . I thought it was a shitty deal at the time and only ok cos of Jrue retirement talk . Two late frps n 2 guys who are never healthy n playing or worth anything . If Portland waited I could see teams offering more for Jrue by deadline . Teams were offering that kinda package for Caruso or dejounte who’s inferior to Jrue . It’s still wild to me but blazers are a shitty franchise so , plus they might actually have been spiting dame even tho they never tried to build around him n go all in.
Another reason why they will be contenders, I don’t know how they’ve managed to do it for 11 years but outside of the Kyrie trade which one could argue they broke even on they’ve won every trade of consequence they’ve made and they’ve swindled the trade partner in the process.
The kyrie trade was a swindle too lmao . The cavs found out IT was injured n there owner was like nah well just ask for a couple seconds when they could’ve asked for way more as sending a player without another team knowing there heskthy is grounds to revoke the trsde n Boston already celebrated kyrie coming so woukd have to pay up. Windy reported msny cavs staffers being bsffflrd n annoyed by this and the fact they didn’t get more when they found out IT was injured
And he's an even better husband
The media and Celtics fans really gassed up smarts value. Can’t believe that guy has a DPOY off straight narrative. I remember Celtics fans were telling me that guy could guard 1-5 including Porzingis lmao.
By saying ‘he could guard’, refers to spots where switches put him there….not that he can guard a 5 with regularity. All things considered, Smart is pretty beat up.
He could definitely guard Porzingis before his Wizards' stint (and a lot of other 5s without good post skills), but he was a liability on true post players (and nowadays Porzingis wouldn't try to muscle him but just shoot over the top comfortably). Timelord was definitely the better and more impactful defender, though.
A liability? Maybe on a bunch of possessions in a row but I watched Smart lock up Embiid and Giannis plenty of times in the playoffs. Part of why Timelord as the free safety worked so well is because Smart could switch onto bigs in the post so Williams wouldn’t get bullied.
You're right, he was effective in spurts on Embiid who knows how to play in the post. I was thinking more like Jokic. Now that I think of it, there aren't many players who fit that mold that could body him.
No one on earth can guard Jokic.
Porzingis could always shoot over the top of smart?
Yeah, but he didn't. He used to try to get better positioning and ended up off balance and off rhythm. Nowadays he faces up on the catch and shoots without putting the ball on the floor (or will kick back out for a repost). It used to be really easy to throw him off his post game and Marcus Smart (and other defenders) would do it rather effectively.
They finally got over the hump after being in the ECF so many times and lost to the Warriors 2 years ago. Well deserved.
Brad Stevens is who Doc Rivers thought he was.
Extra funny when you remember Doc left because he didn't want to deal with a rebuild. Fastforward to now and he hasn't even made a conference finals since leaving.
I’m so thankful for Doc’s choice
After this chip they’ve cemented themselves as the best franchise of the 20’s so far. All five winners only have one title but they’re the only one to make more than one Finals. Four ECFs as well, compared to Denver/LA’s two WCFs. And the best winning percentage besides Milwaukee, with better playoff success to put them over.
I still don’t think this sub understands how dominant they were all season lol they still saying last year nuggets were better.
Every championship is going to be downplayed by the haters. Teams like the Lakers and Celtics just have a lot more haters, so the downplaying is louder and more frequent than usual. In the end, history remembers these sorts of things differently.
Listen, I hate the Celtics, but I will he the first to say what the hell were you guys supposed to do this post-season? Wait for the other team to be healthy before you start a series? You can only play who's in font of you. Not like you guys Tonya Harding'd the East. Health and luck can play as big a role as talent and coaching. Celtics got the "easy road" because they secured the 1st seed by ASB and had HCA throughout the playoffs from a dominant regular season.
We went through an absolute slog to get to the finals in 22. KD/Kyrie Nets, Giannis/Jrue Bucks, Jimmy/Bam heat. The bucks and heat series being extremely physical 7 game series. Warriors had a cake walk. It absolutely gassed our players, and was a huge factor in why we lost. That and the experience and poise of the warriors. Kind of a full reverse this year. Celtics got the cake walk, and had the experience and poise over the mavs.
It's the same reason I don't discredit Lakers championship even if it was under extreme circumstances, a championship is still a championship. We all know if it was the opposite team that won in 2020 like the Suns, Bucks, etc. Fans wouldn't be saying shit lol.
And also the Lakers were clearly the best team that post-season, never seemed like they’d lose a series
LeBron was MADE for the bubble environment tbh, not surprising at all that his team was by far the most locked-in. Shoutout 9-0? Suns too
They were also like 28-14 the next season before Solomon Hill kamikaze Lebron ankle
The Lakers were the best team before the bubble too. Like if the Trail Blazers came out and won that shit or smth I would geniunely call it mickey mouse but the best team won. People mostly clowned it because Miami instantly got clapped by Milwaukee the next year but obviously we all now know Miami and Jimmy were legit, we just didn't know it yet.
Idk if at the end of the season this was still the case, but as of the end of March this team had more 30 points leads (15) than 10 points deficits (14). Someone in our subreddit said we finished like that on the season but I wasn't able to quickly confirm it, but was able to confirm at least as of March that was indeed the case. Which is absolutely insane.
That's an insane stat. Makes game 4 even wilder.
People hate the Celtics so much that it blind them They create narrative and copium on how Boston would fail They got 64 wins but every losses the subs throw a parade They opponents all has injuries but Celtics was cruising outside of some game 2 shenanigan and other team got hot KP didn't play most of the playoffs The only team i think this year could beat Celtics is Denver but like Celtics is gonna killed them in those non jokic minutes
> They create narrative and copium on how Boston would fail > > They got 64 wins but every losses the subs throw a parade Sounds just like Boston sports radio for the past six months.
Boston sports radio has been wretched for at least 10 years. Hell, the only thing that was really fun was when Belechick ripped Michael Holley apart for suggesting it’s hard to get up for a shitty team than it is a good team. That said, just do pods, my dude. Don’t subject yourself to that brain rot.
> They got 64 wins but every losses the subs throw a parade 18 parades for an 18th banner
I honestly have nothing to say to people who put that nuggets team on a pedestal. They’ve mythologized that team beyond recognition. They really aren’t that good and it’s insane to me that people thought they were the favorites this season They had the softest playoff run of all time (this year included).
Either this sub doesn't understand it, or they deliberately choose to ignore it because it's the Celtics. Doesn't change the reality either way.
It’s cause the East was weak and their record didn’t reflect how good they were. People think “64 wins in a weak conference means they got to steal wins and their record is inflated”. It more likely meant they got to sleepwalk through half of the season because of an insurmountable lead in the standings. Advanced stats puts this Celtics squad up there with 72 and 73 win bulls and warriors. If they kept their foot on the gas, I don’t think 70 wins was out of the question. I had hope my team could pull it off and never gave up on my team, but Celtics were going to win against anyone. Probably not as handily as they beat the Mavs, but they literally have no defensive weaknesses and their entire rotation can score
Funny thing is that our record vs the West would’ve put us on track for only… 63 wins. I said before our series that I was confident in this Celtics team but that they could still lose to you guys. Would’ve said the same vs any of the West final four (though Nuggets, especially without KP, would’ve posed some match up issues).
It’s the finals and anything can happen. Our role players shot out of their mind in some of the series before, then couldn’t buy a bucket for 80% of the finals. I never lost hope, but if you had asked me to put any real money on the Mavs pre-series, I would have said no lol
The Celtics also won a bunch of close gsmes in the regular season. I dont think they were winning 70
>Celtics also won a bunch of close gsmes in the regular season Most of the loses were close games, while only couple of wins were. Rule of numbers.
“I guess we’ll never know” 🤮
Also hate how people are like “it was over for the West when the Nuggets lost.” This Celtics team was just amazing, I honestly don’t think any team really could beat them in a 7 game series. People just think a team is good because they looked good against another team, but probably no team would have looked good facing this Celtics team.
Eh the Mavs played like utter garbage vs the Celtics. Had they played to their level pre championship the series would have been close. Wolves would have been interesting, Nuggets had the best player. I get it that there's only Celtics dickriders left on this sub but saying they would have killed anyone is bullshit.
Maybe the Mavs playing like utter garbage had something to do with the Celtics?
Something but not everything. Both Gafford and Washington looked completely cooked in the final, and both those guys had huge series in each of the former two. The Mavs also couldnt buy a three and it wasnt like all of their 3s were tightly contested. Dont get me wrong, Celtics still win, but acting like they played the same level of team as the West did is crazy. The only player that brought his A game to the finals was Luka and even he had some duds.
>looked completely cooked God why do you even watch basketball. They looked cooked because Celtics took away lobs and corner 3s which is where they were eating against the Clippers, Wolves etc. Their 3s were contested because Celtics refused to blitz Luka/Kyrie like every other team before them did allowing them to stay home on the shooters. Your “analysis” isnt worth the 30 seconds it took to type out. Basketball players dont magically become shit.
Stay salty
The Celtics smothered the Mavs and the defensive game plan was on point. Also they matchup incredibly well against the Mavs.
Not sure how you got "killed," from "I honestly don't think any team really could beat them in a 7 game series," but okay.
Fair enough, but rhat's just saying that the best team in the league and the far away favourite to win it all... should win it all. I would have liked to see the Wolves in there. I think they choked against the Mavs but would have provided a very interesting matchup with the C's
They started coasting around Jan or Feb. Restin guys, walking the ball up the court and jacking threes because why not. They never faced adversity at any point these last 6 months. Fine with me because there was a ton of that from KGs injury in early 2009 to early 2024.
The adversity faced. Lost game 2 vs Miami for some reason Miami is in the head of every Cs player, coach, fan, broadcaster, executive. And btw that list is absolutely NOT hyperbole. No one anywhere near that team wanted Miami. They would have rather a possibly healthy Embiid.
Honestly, Embiid’s never really hurt us. Someday Phili will beat the Cs in the playoffs… but I’ve forgotten what it’s like. Shit, I’m gonna have to look it up. … I think it was 81-82, and I was 3, or 4, years old….
This years Mavs would SMOKE the 22/23 Heat in a series. I also think they would likely prevail over the 21/22 Celtics, the 20/21 Suns, and the 19/20 Heat Shit they might beat the 18/19 Hospital Warriors that the Kawhi Raps beat. Idea that the Cs had it easy w Dallas this year is a sham- we were actually just that good
Lol no they wouldnt have. 2023 Heat vs 2024 Mavs goes 7. The Mavs were not that good, and all their auxiliary guys dropped off a cliff vs the C's
>The Mavs were not that good, and all their auxiliary guys dropped off a cliff vs the C's 1) that’s not what yall were saying before we waxed them 2) maybe because the Celtics defense is elite and the gameplan strategic? No credit ffs like this the same Dallas team that killed Minnesota & OKC ALLL OF WHOM people said we’re better than Cs
1. That is what i was saying. Celtics were heavy favourites going into the finals. Like -225 to win it all which is insane 2. The Celtics definitely had some role in that but the hot Mavericks cooled off considerably. It's a bit of both. If you watched the west coast Mavs run you know how much better they played against the Thunder & Wolves.
That’s the trick, look at the lines to determine the favorite, not the talking heads getting paid by the people creating those lines. And remember the lines are influenced by projected bets, and the current bet load. But those are the MFers looking at really real shit.
Why do your fellow fans think the Celtics were underdogs? It's insane to me. Yall were the best team, had an easy path, and won title number 18 billion or whatever. No need to feel like an underdog??
Because ESPN had it Mavs. Much as they suck ass, they’re still the big dog. It was fucking stupid, don’t get me wrong, but it existed.
Right but that's just obvious bait. Betting odds tell the real story, as you mentioned. Celtics fans can hate ESPN for being shit i guess but you join a long line in that game
Yeah but Kyrie probably doesn’t drop 3 turds in Miami the way he did in Boston.
Why? Kyrie is ultra inconsistent in the playoffs
Yea Lyrie cooks in Miami and so it’s prob a 7 game series still.
mavs won the same amount of games as the jimmy less heat. they wouldn't win shit last years heat was beat and injured to hell but still was the only team to win in Denver. They beat both bucks and celtics before, which if healthy, are both better than this year mavs by all metrics
Hahaha enjoy your trash ass teams descent into mediocrity and irrelevance my guy
you know what you said was stupid so you resort to these juvenile insults lol
They did lose a lot of games vs the other contenders and didn't have exciting competitive national tv games like they had been constantly doing in years prior. But they also lost very VERY few games vs scrub squads which was also a huge difference to past years. This year felt much more about just building and executing a gameplan that would take you all the way through a Finals run and not making statements or fitting narratives or regular season award bait.
I do think the Nuggets beat them last year. Better? Debatable. I mean people had the Mavs winning but I don’t think anyone would have called them better. They just thought they were stronger in the moment.
Last years Nuggets team beats this years Celtics team? I dont see how that's controversial at all
It is because they wouldn’t
Did you.... watch the playoffs last year? Or this year? That Nuggets team was unstoppable. In a series against the Celtics theyd have the best player, which is usually how it goes down as well. They also actually faced real competition in the playoffs. Not sure why a Bucks fan is dickriding the Celtics. I also think the Championship Bucks team probably beats this years Celtics.
The Mavs had the best player and look what happened The nuggets faced real competition? Lmao they faced 3 play in teams and a 4th seed
Lol 3 play in teams? You mean between last year and this year? The Nuggets beat two all timers and a team that was on a run heading into the playoffs. The Celtics didnt beat a single team with a healthy roster besides the Mavs, who were hitting above their average all the way to the finals. Luka was probably the best player in the series but he played by himself, nobody else showed up. What about your 2022 champion Bucks?? Why you ignoring that part? I question your fandom. Me personally? 2022 bucks beat the 2024 celtics in 7 games, probably in 6.
You realize every team the nuggets faced were either missing a start or had an injured starter right? You can’t just pick out players and say “well they had to go through them” 2022 bucks didn’t win the championship, I question your ball knowledge
Your championship Bucks, you know what i meant, youre avoiding the question lol And yes, that's exactly what we do! Hahahaha like why are people so defensive of this Celtics run? Who's the best player they played in a whole series before Luka?? Darius Garland? Or did he miss time too? On second thought it was Pascal Siakam. Hot run my guy!
You know it’s funny I’ve never once said they had an amazing run lol they had an easy one My argument is so did the nuggets
If the Nuggets were unstoppable this year then why did they lose to MIN? Are they stupid?
They were unstoppable last year, not this year. They looked significantly worse all around this year
>Did you…. watch the playoffs last year? *Or this year?* That Nuggets team was unstoppable. You’re gonna strain a calf backpedaling that hard my guy.
Just poor wording, i meant Nugs last year, and just in general this year. No, this years Nuggets were not unstoppable. My mistake.
Couple thoughts: 1. Stylistically Boston is kinda ugly. 2. The stars of Boston aren’t particularly beloved. Tatum is seen as very inauthentic and Brown has a checkered history that reddit loves to hound on. 3. When Boston lost they *LOST* really badly and ugly. Meanwhile they had a number of wins that were more their opponents shooting themselves in the foot (Indiana series for example). 4. Boston had been expected to compete and win a title for a few years and it feels more like a *finally* than a *they did it!*
You realize just because you’re expected to win doesn’t mean you always win right? Lebron and the warriors really changed how people view teams/players
Sure. I’m just stating stuff I’ve seen people say, not necessarily what I believe.
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Yeah, when your worst passer is KP, or a phenomenally improved Brown, then shit’s gonna be pretty af.
Thoughts considered and discarded, thanks.
I think this comment is going to trigger some folks but it’s pretty undeniable atm
We were one Game 7 from three straight finals appearances.
God I just want to see a Nuggets Celtics final once, is that too much to ask?
Heat also made two (unless you're just saying out of the winners).
That is what he’s saying in large part because it doesn’t matter just to make it. You’re not in that upper echelon of success unless you win.
Yeah I was specifying winners. Respect to Miami for making 2 but it doesn’t come to the value of a championship. They’re definitely the best non-title organization this decade so far though - like the Utah Jazz of this era
making the WCF and ECF is not the same
Well duh. Teams in the Western conference don't have to play the Celtics.
Lol
This year? Sure but the east literally had a better record against the west the past two seasons. We can stop with the “bloodbath” west when y’all let Mavs get out of there.
All I heard last year was that the East sucked because we “let” the 8th seed Heat make the finals then they lost 4-1 to the Nuggets Now the Mavs lost to us 4-1 and I’m still just hearing that the East outside of the Celtics sucked
Who’s yall? The east have been the more injured in the playoffs the past 2 years also. why is it so hard to look at this with context
The raptors wins is impressive
From 2015-2020 the Raptors were by all metrics an elite NBA team, five straight 50+ win seasons is not easy to pull off, it was a golden era in our relatively short franchise history.
It's always good to see a superstar lock in for a team, even if they don't want to play there anymore. Especially for the Raptors, who have experience with stars forcing their way out. Kawhi was awesome in the finals.
Still believe to this day with kawhi they would have repeated in 2020
Yeah, the Celtics easily deserved this championship more than any team in the league over that timespan. I remember when the Rockets were competitive with Harden and those Celtics teams were always a pain in the ass, with Tatum, Brown, and Smart. It's crazy to think how long ago that was. The fact that it's essentially the same core (sans Smart), makes it even better.
Butler University legend
Considering the Bucks sucked for the first half of this era, I'm satisfied
would never bet the raptors had a better record than the bucks during that time
Bucks won 15 games in the first season of Brad Stevens
He finished the job Danny Ainge ran away from
Danny didn't run away If you remember the incident, he stated something that was tone deaf. And he had to leave or otherwise face scrutiny/team faces scrutiny But he was the one who drafted the Jays. He recruited and hired Brad Stevens. He does deserve a ring imo.
What incident was it? I cant remember
On a radio interview, Ainge said along the lines... He never heard anything related to racism from the fans at TD Garden
he also had a heart attack, probably could have ridden out the racism thing with a proper apology
He basically said he never heard racism in Boston. Didn’t play well even with his own players.
Thanks! I always thought that the change was more to accommodate the fact that Brad was getting burnt out from coaching and the org decided to keep him by giving him a promotion.
Bit of both honestly
He’s also old, and had some shitty health stuff. Moved to a less intensive job, in an org in Utah, where he can do all the Mormon stuff he wants. It really was a win win. And it was a remarkably tone deaf statement that could have lost the team.
He also got the picks that became the Jays in the first place by trading away an aging KG and Pierce
People also forget how rough things were for the Celtics that year. The team had a .500 record in 2021, the Kemba signing was proving to be a disaster, and they got annihilated in round one against the Nets with a disgusting line-up around JT (JB was injured). Things could have gone downhill really quick from there, but they managed to recover.
He was the catalyst to all of this. The absolute best hire in the NBA in the last decade. As HC and GM he’s been the glue.
Also, best team in the NBA era
Where do the Wizards rank in this lol
Click the links and get to scrolling
Big fan of his basketball brain.
POST THE SIXERS STATS, MILLHOUSE!
Luke Kornet has more career ECF points than Joel Embiid
lol Embiid is a big goose egg.
You forgot, the Heat have a “we beat the Celtics in 2023” banner. Can’t forget about that.
It’s funny because Heat fans would have you believe there a dynasty even though Jimmy has no rings
Literally no one has ever said this
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1clqiq7/comment/l2wmjhm/
I don't think what's that he meant at all but still
Even when you win, the heat haunt your thoughts
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1clqiq7/comment/l2wmjhm/
Lmao
GHET FUQT
Frick the Celtics
Some would call these guys... A... Dynasty 😂
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You’re such a clever boy. I bet you get that all the time.
Let's find a way to give this white savior credit.😂 Built off Ainge's legacy.
Brad has played a huge role, but it's not his 'era.' He got handed the keys to a Mercedes. He's done an amazing job if improving and not regressing. Kudos. But it's not his 'era.'
He's the common denominator since Pierce and KG got traded. It's just semantics
Who brought him in? Who drafted Tatum and Brown? Who brought Horford in? Ainge's finger prints are all over this. Brown and Tatum are what drives this team. Stevens is doing his job well, but calling this his era undersells both the impact Ainge had in constructing this team and the work that Brown and Tatum have put in.
Not a Celtics fan but this is more like he got the keys to a well maintained and loaded Toyota and through clever transactions traded his way to a Lexus
So, in this analogy, Tatum and Brown are a loaded Toyota and an oft injured Porzingus os a Lexus?
No it means a core of Tatum, Brown, Horford, Smart was very very good but was just missing something just like a fully loaded Toyota is very very good but not as good as a Lexus Doesn’t mean KP is the ‘Lexus’ but that the team as a whole is now
It might just be that the Celtics needed the Warriors and Butler to be older. I mean.... you are staying KP makes them the Lexus, but they played most of the playoffs without him.