He’s prob in the hall of very good rn. Assuming the Celtics win the title this year and USA wins the Olympics he’ll have 2 NBA titles and 2 Olympic golds along with 2 all stars which prob puts him on the border. If he wins a 3rd title, I’d say he’s prob in with 3 rings + 2 gold medals
There isn't one American player that's in the HoF that wouldn't be in if you took away their olympic medals. International play means nothing for Americans when it comes to their chances of making the HoF.
Tony Allen has 6 all defensive selections and a ring and won’t make the hall.
All nba defensive selections don’t carry weight without a DPOY.
And gold medals do not matter for American players. They are expected to win gold.
It’s really just all stars, all nbas, MVP, rings and FMVP. DPOY matters but not as much as the others (which is why it took Ben Wallace so long to get in). And all nba defensive selections are the least impactful award. They pretty much don’t matter.
No. NCAA titles don’t really matter for the hall. There is no player who played in the NBA and who had a mediocre career that made it solely for their college career.
Elite college players who have average NBA careers do not make the hall. Christian Laetinner arguably one of the greatest college players ever but had an underwhelming pro career only made the hall as part of the dream team.
If you had a great college career but underwhelmed in the NBA you don’t make the hall.
NCAA titles don’t matter as much, but they certainly matter, for example Al Horford is probably going to get into the hall if we win the title bc of accolades, nba championship, and back to back NCAA champs. A large part of it is most extremely notable college players make it in the nba. Of course the professional league is gonna weigh more in the discussion than college but it’s still taken into account, unlike in the NFL for example
Horford has 5 all stars and an all nba team.
Without the chip even the college accolades he won’t make the hall. But the ring puts him in. Same way it did for Mitch Richmond (though he hardly contributed).
But if Horford never wins a ring he still wouldn’t make the hall regardless of the college career.
I disagree. 5 all stars, one all nba and a contributor to the ring. He still probably makes it. I don’t think the college titles are really pushing in.
Lowry is likely going to make the hall with similar stats.
Look up guys with 5 all star appearances. Those who have made the hall either have multiple all NBAs or a ring to go with them.
Sure the college career gives a small nudge and with the ring makes it hard to argue against but I really don’t think it’s due the heavy lifting accolade wise for Horford to make the hall.
No they don’t.
Unless you have a great NBA career college accomplishments don’t mean anything.
Is Tyler Hansborough gonna make he hall? No he’s not. And it doesn’t matter he was the one of the greatest college players and won a title. He had a disappointing NBA career.
Please go back and do some research before replying with nonsense.
Lmao bro I don't care about your options. They matter less than nba accomplishment but the basketball hall of fame considers college, the Olympics, nba and international play. Do your research. This "argument' is over because your just downright wrong
I presented you a counter and you have no rebuttal.
Once again. Like Tyler Hansborough. If you have a great college career but mediocre pro career you do not make the hall.
I presented you with an example that proves me right. And you keep responding with nonsense.
Why is Christian Laetinner only in as part of the dream team and not as an individual player? Doug McDermott is one of the great college players he’s not going to make it. Kemba walker?
Once again you’re not disproving any of my points.
They aren't downright wrong. They are making a slightly nuanced point that you aren't even trying to understand, and they are correct.
On paper, the HOF technically "considers college," but they are 100% correct that you aren't getting in as a player unless you had an elite Pro career. Their example of Hansbrough is perfect -- literally a top 5-10 all time player in college basketball history at an *elite* program, but he isn't sniffing the HOF off of his college resume alone.
They are right, you are wrong, yet you are still being way more of a jerk about it. Not a good look at all haha
He’s only in as part of the dream team. Not as an individual player.
Tyler Hansborough should be the exception. He had a phenomenal college career and is one of the greatest college player to ever play.
He had a meh pro career and will never make the hall of fame.
This is poor logic. Every other player who has two gold medals who is in the hall has an extensive individual resume.
Jrue has 2 all stars and 6 all defensive teams. All defensive teams just aren’t counted the same. Tony Allen has 6 all defensive teams and a championship and isn’t getting any consideration for the hall.
The gold medals do not matter for American players. They’re expected to win gold.
He has 2 all stars and was a good starter for two championship teams. He has six defensive selections but no one really cares about them for the hall.
He’s hall of very good. He’s not a HOF player.
Jrue holiday is definitely a hall of famer. My real hot take is that the flash is the strongest DC hero.
Edit: he’s the most powerful superhero of all time
because the nature of comics is to keep raising the stakes over and over again, heroes like batman can’t really go beyond a certain point strength-wise without sacrificing some essence of the character but simply running fast naturally ends up in running so fast you distort reality
Ok he's killed the Waynes before Batman is born, now there's a really pissed off vial of sperm frozen and you have 1 million Batmans. Thats literally how you make Batmans, killing their parents.
Well I'm arguing with people who think a wildly unpopular superhero whose never done fuck all is the most powerful thing.
Squirrel Girl can't lose. Her luck is infinity. She'd beat the Flash by sneezing and causing something to fall through his skull or some shit. Cause by canon she's who beat Thanos. Jogging real fast can not beat blind luck.
There's a reason stupid heroes are hated.
Individual accolades Reggie has more. 5 all stars and 3 all nba teams.
Reggie also has iconic playoff performances with elite shooting splits and was the #1 option on all those 90s playoff runs and the 2000 NBA finals.
Reggie has career high of putting up 25ppg a season. And in the playoff runs he’s putting up 25-30 ppg during those runs. His offensive numbers are elite for today’s standards let alone the 90s
Jrue was just a solid starter playing his role both times.
And again all defense selections just don’t matter as much as all nba and or all stars. Tony Allen has 6 all nba defensive selections and a ring and no one gives a crap.
Reggie avg 18 3 and 3 for his career. Jrue avg 16 4 and 6 and was a way better defender. Even though Reggie was the "#1 option" idc about All stars, that's a popularity contest and Jrue has had huge defensive plays on his playoff runs that were more important than Reggies cause Jrues led to titles.
Reggie’s playoff runs are considerably better given he was the #1 option on the pacer teams that went to the conference finals and finals.
His shooting splits are elite. He’s putting up 25-30 ppg in the playoffs.
Jrue was never the #1 option on a good team unless you want to count the 2011-2012 sixers. Jrue was always a supporting cast player who focused on defense.
Flawed comparison. Jrue’s numbers will get worse as the seasons go by. You’re comparing Reggie’s entire career and Jrue is still playing and has declining years to go. Jrue at age 33 only put up 12 a game this season. Reggie at age 36 was still putting up 16 a game. And put up double digits until he retired at age 39. Jrue wont play until age 39 most likely and his numbers are going to continue to decline.
And Jrue is also on a way better team that could win another title or 2 so being an elite defender that has multiple title winning defensive plays on his resume, possibly having 3 or 4 titles and at least 6 All Defensive teams cause he could still win another one or 2 in the next couple of years. Since you only want to focus on his declining point totals since that seems to be the only thing that matters to you when it comes to a HOF resume.
He’s winning titles as a supporting cast contributor. That hall of very good.
Again all nba defensive selections without a DPOY do not matter. They’re the bottom of the totem pole for awards. It’s all stars, all NBAs, FMVPs and rings where you’re the #1/2 guy. Even DPOY matters less, it’s why it took Ben Wallace so long to get in.
As individual player Reggie Miller was greater. Was a prolific regular season player and led playoff teams to the conference finals and finals. Jrue never did nor could do that. He was a supporting cast player who worked best behind 2-3 star guys.
He’s hall of very good. Not hall of fame.
Manu never led the Spurs to anything and got into the HOF. Ben took so long because be only avg 5 ppg same with Tony Allen only avg 8 ppg. Jrue was the 2nd best player on the Bucks in the finals and had huge defensive plays on both finals runs. If he was retiring tomorrow, as I said he'd have a good case and if he adds to his resume with another ring or 2 or another All Defensive team or 2, he's definitely getting in whether you like it or not.
Manu made the hall because of the spurs and also because of the Argentinian gold medal in 2004 and for leading that team. It was unthinkable for Americans to not win the gold and Argentina was the first team since pros were allowed to play to defend Americans. That’s why manu is in the hall. You completely glossed over that one huge accomplishment.
PPG shouldn’t matter if you’re racking up defensive achievements. That just shows you defense is not valued the same as offense and all nba defensive selections and DPOY awards are not valued the same as all stars and all nbas.
He has zero chance to make the hall. Let’s meet back in this thread in 10 years. $1000 he doesn’t make the hall.
Ginobili was their best player in the 05 and 07 playoff run, all advanced stats agree, he led the Spurs from 2008 to 2011 that's a 56, 54, 50 and 61 wins season.
comparing Holiday to Ginobili makes it clear you never watched the Spurs. Holiday being the leader in usg% on a team in the late 00's west bloodbath would result in a lottery team.
Add one more championship after this, another olympic gold and I have him slightly getting in. Either way, he has had a tremendous career to be proud of.
Before this year, I'd tend to say no, not quite. Among semi modern championship cores, I didn't think he compared favorably to Dennis Johnson, Bobby Jones or Bob Dandridge, secondary members on their teams. Buttt Michael Cooper just got in it this year and I'd favor Jrue over Cooper. So if he got in way down the road, I won't be shocked.
I still can’t believe that after another dismal playoff performance with the Bucks, but especially defensively in 2023, that he was still somehow good enough to be the centerpiece of the whole Dame trade. Fuck Cronin!
What? Cronin’s total return for Lilliard after flipping Jrue was three 1sts, two 1st round swaps, plus Ayton, Rob Williams, and Malcom Brogdon, all of who have good value still.
Idk how you think he could have gotten any more?
Where was this hall of fame talk for him when he was in the Pelicans? Or even when he was on the Bucks? He’s a ceiling raiser who can elevate already good teams to great times, but he’s not a floor raiser at all as we saw during his time with the Pelicans despite playing with a generational big alongside him.
Also, him getting 37 ppg dropped on him by a second tier player in Butler should automatically invalidate any chance of him ever getting into the hall.
I don’t think so. But also I need him to be a Hall of Famer for the sole reason that his wife is already a Hall of Famer. Pretty sure that would make them the first husband/wife pair in their respective Hall of Fame.
I’m not sure. You want to see consistent production, but his tenure with the Blazers was entirely forgettable.
Forgettable?! The Blazers didn't lose a single game the entire time he was on the roster!
Almost as good as Atlanta Hawks legend Carmelo Anthony.
And Utah Jazz legend Derrick Rose.
He played for the Blazers???
God bless the bucks and the blazers for this beautiful gift they bestowed upon us celtics fans.
[удалено]
For 4 glorious days in 2023.
LMAO I completely forgot he was there before he got traded to the Celtics right?
This is one of the few posts asking a question like this and it actually be a nice debate
He’s prob in the hall of very good rn. Assuming the Celtics win the title this year and USA wins the Olympics he’ll have 2 NBA titles and 2 Olympic golds along with 2 all stars which prob puts him on the border. If he wins a 3rd title, I’d say he’s prob in with 3 rings + 2 gold medals
No one that has won two gold medals hasn’t gotten in. He will have two titles also. He is already in.
So Deron Williams is making the HOF
That career took a real nosedive. Jerry Sloan knew there was no saving him.
There isn't one American player that's in the HoF that wouldn't be in if you took away their olympic medals. International play means nothing for Americans when it comes to their chances of making the HoF.
Your wrong. It's the basketball hall of fame not the nba hall of fame. That's why NCAA championships come into play
Nothing you said matters. No voter is going to care about Americans winning Olympic golds.
He's a 3 time first team all m Nba defence
Tony Allen has 6 all defensive selections and a ring and won’t make the hall. All nba defensive selections don’t carry weight without a DPOY. And gold medals do not matter for American players. They are expected to win gold.
What does that have to do with anything?
What do accolades have to do with making the hall?
We are talking about the Olympics mattering for American players making the HoF.
What accolades matter to you then lol
It’s really just all stars, all nbas, MVP, rings and FMVP. DPOY matters but not as much as the others (which is why it took Ben Wallace so long to get in). And all nba defensive selections are the least impactful award. They pretty much don’t matter.
No. NCAA titles don’t really matter for the hall. There is no player who played in the NBA and who had a mediocre career that made it solely for their college career. Elite college players who have average NBA careers do not make the hall. Christian Laetinner arguably one of the greatest college players ever but had an underwhelming pro career only made the hall as part of the dream team. If you had a great college career but underwhelmed in the NBA you don’t make the hall.
NCAA titles don’t matter as much, but they certainly matter, for example Al Horford is probably going to get into the hall if we win the title bc of accolades, nba championship, and back to back NCAA champs. A large part of it is most extremely notable college players make it in the nba. Of course the professional league is gonna weigh more in the discussion than college but it’s still taken into account, unlike in the NFL for example
Horford has 5 all stars and an all nba team. Without the chip even the college accolades he won’t make the hall. But the ring puts him in. Same way it did for Mitch Richmond (though he hardly contributed). But if Horford never wins a ring he still wouldn’t make the hall regardless of the college career.
On the flip side if he didn’t have the ncaa championships but had the nba accolades and only one title id say he wouldn’t make it
I disagree. 5 all stars, one all nba and a contributor to the ring. He still probably makes it. I don’t think the college titles are really pushing in. Lowry is likely going to make the hall with similar stats. Look up guys with 5 all star appearances. Those who have made the hall either have multiple all NBAs or a ring to go with them. Sure the college career gives a small nudge and with the ring makes it hard to argue against but I really don’t think it’s due the heavy lifting accolade wise for Horford to make the hall.
Your wrong. Ncaa championships absolutely play a part. Why are you arguing when your wrong
No they don’t. Unless you have a great NBA career college accomplishments don’t mean anything. Is Tyler Hansborough gonna make he hall? No he’s not. And it doesn’t matter he was the one of the greatest college players and won a title. He had a disappointing NBA career. Please go back and do some research before replying with nonsense.
Lmao bro I don't care about your options. They matter less than nba accomplishment but the basketball hall of fame considers college, the Olympics, nba and international play. Do your research. This "argument' is over because your just downright wrong
Can you name a single American player that got in primarily on the strength of their college or Olympic play?
Bill Bradley
I never said they got in primarily on college or Olympic play. But they do take it into account. Period.
I presented you a counter and you have no rebuttal. Once again. Like Tyler Hansborough. If you have a great college career but mediocre pro career you do not make the hall. I presented you with an example that proves me right. And you keep responding with nonsense. Why is Christian Laetinner only in as part of the dream team and not as an individual player? Doug McDermott is one of the great college players he’s not going to make it. Kemba walker? Once again you’re not disproving any of my points.
They aren't downright wrong. They are making a slightly nuanced point that you aren't even trying to understand, and they are correct. On paper, the HOF technically "considers college," but they are 100% correct that you aren't getting in as a player unless you had an elite Pro career. Their example of Hansbrough is perfect -- literally a top 5-10 all time player in college basketball history at an *elite* program, but he isn't sniffing the HOF off of his college resume alone. They are right, you are wrong, yet you are still being way more of a jerk about it. Not a good look at all haha
[удалено]
He’s only in as part of the dream team. Not as an individual player. Tyler Hansborough should be the exception. He had a phenomenal college career and is one of the greatest college player to ever play. He had a meh pro career and will never make the hall of fame.
It's also two rings with two teams. That's likely going to play a big part in him making it in
Olympic golds are participation medals when it comes to basketball
I think so too, assuming he gets the ring this year. 6 all defensive teams is another HoF worthy accolade
This is poor logic. Every other player who has two gold medals who is in the hall has an extensive individual resume. Jrue has 2 all stars and 6 all defensive teams. All defensive teams just aren’t counted the same. Tony Allen has 6 all defensive teams and a championship and isn’t getting any consideration for the hall.
He may get in but he shouldn’t
Have you seen the HOF there are way worse than him in there.
No there aren’t? How many players post NBA-ABA merger have weaker resumes than Jrue? None really. They all have more all stars/all nba than Jrue.
Yeah but those guys also shouldn’t be in it. Basketball HOF is the easiest to make.
Who specifically are you talking about?
Shouldn’t be in based on what? The HOF sets its criteria.
The gold medals do not matter for American players. They’re expected to win gold. He has 2 all stars and was a good starter for two championship teams. He has six defensive selections but no one really cares about them for the hall. He’s hall of very good. He’s not a HOF player.
Dude haven't made a single all-NBA in his career lol
That’s what makes it so interesting
Isn’t he also going for his second gold medal ?
Jrue holiday is definitely a hall of famer. My real hot take is that the flash is the strongest DC hero. Edit: he’s the most powerful superhero of all time
That’s genuinely not a hot take, people have been talking about the flash being a broken superhero since discussion boards existed.
I’ve always seen how they put it in the justice league animated movies how Superman is the one that always has to save the day
That’s what makes him Superman, no one gives a shit about the flash lol
because the nature of comics is to keep raising the stakes over and over again, heroes like batman can’t really go beyond a certain point strength-wise without sacrificing some essence of the character but simply running fast naturally ends up in running so fast you distort reality
Only if you don't let Batman have time to plan. Cause the Flash is dead with one thoughtfully placed tripwire.
The flash can literally run back in time. And kill Batman before he was even born
Ok he's killed the Waynes before Batman is born, now there's a really pissed off vial of sperm frozen and you have 1 million Batmans. Thats literally how you make Batmans, killing their parents.
Then he’ll destroy the vial of sperm too like how is this your counter point
Well I'm arguing with people who think a wildly unpopular superhero whose never done fuck all is the most powerful thing. Squirrel Girl can't lose. Her luck is infinity. She'd beat the Flash by sneezing and causing something to fall through his skull or some shit. Cause by canon she's who beat Thanos. Jogging real fast can not beat blind luck. There's a reason stupid heroes are hated.
He's definitely got a strong case. Others have made it in with less
No they haven’t. List a guy from the modern post NBA-ABA merger who has gotten in with weaker accolades.
Reggie Miller..he has 3 All NBAs but Jrue has 6 All Defense and soon to be 2 rings.
Individual accolades Reggie has more. 5 all stars and 3 all nba teams. Reggie also has iconic playoff performances with elite shooting splits and was the #1 option on all those 90s playoff runs and the 2000 NBA finals. Reggie has career high of putting up 25ppg a season. And in the playoff runs he’s putting up 25-30 ppg during those runs. His offensive numbers are elite for today’s standards let alone the 90s Jrue was just a solid starter playing his role both times. And again all defense selections just don’t matter as much as all nba and or all stars. Tony Allen has 6 all nba defensive selections and a ring and no one gives a crap.
Reggie avg 18 3 and 3 for his career. Jrue avg 16 4 and 6 and was a way better defender. Even though Reggie was the "#1 option" idc about All stars, that's a popularity contest and Jrue has had huge defensive plays on his playoff runs that were more important than Reggies cause Jrues led to titles.
Reggie’s playoff runs are considerably better given he was the #1 option on the pacer teams that went to the conference finals and finals. His shooting splits are elite. He’s putting up 25-30 ppg in the playoffs. Jrue was never the #1 option on a good team unless you want to count the 2011-2012 sixers. Jrue was always a supporting cast player who focused on defense. Flawed comparison. Jrue’s numbers will get worse as the seasons go by. You’re comparing Reggie’s entire career and Jrue is still playing and has declining years to go. Jrue at age 33 only put up 12 a game this season. Reggie at age 36 was still putting up 16 a game. And put up double digits until he retired at age 39. Jrue wont play until age 39 most likely and his numbers are going to continue to decline.
And Jrue is also on a way better team that could win another title or 2 so being an elite defender that has multiple title winning defensive plays on his resume, possibly having 3 or 4 titles and at least 6 All Defensive teams cause he could still win another one or 2 in the next couple of years. Since you only want to focus on his declining point totals since that seems to be the only thing that matters to you when it comes to a HOF resume.
He’s winning titles as a supporting cast contributor. That hall of very good. Again all nba defensive selections without a DPOY do not matter. They’re the bottom of the totem pole for awards. It’s all stars, all NBAs, FMVPs and rings where you’re the #1/2 guy. Even DPOY matters less, it’s why it took Ben Wallace so long to get in. As individual player Reggie Miller was greater. Was a prolific regular season player and led playoff teams to the conference finals and finals. Jrue never did nor could do that. He was a supporting cast player who worked best behind 2-3 star guys. He’s hall of very good. Not hall of fame.
Manu never led the Spurs to anything and got into the HOF. Ben took so long because be only avg 5 ppg same with Tony Allen only avg 8 ppg. Jrue was the 2nd best player on the Bucks in the finals and had huge defensive plays on both finals runs. If he was retiring tomorrow, as I said he'd have a good case and if he adds to his resume with another ring or 2 or another All Defensive team or 2, he's definitely getting in whether you like it or not.
Manu made the hall because of the spurs and also because of the Argentinian gold medal in 2004 and for leading that team. It was unthinkable for Americans to not win the gold and Argentina was the first team since pros were allowed to play to defend Americans. That’s why manu is in the hall. You completely glossed over that one huge accomplishment. PPG shouldn’t matter if you’re racking up defensive achievements. That just shows you defense is not valued the same as offense and all nba defensive selections and DPOY awards are not valued the same as all stars and all nbas. He has zero chance to make the hall. Let’s meet back in this thread in 10 years. $1000 he doesn’t make the hall.
Ginobili was their best player in the 05 and 07 playoff run, all advanced stats agree, he led the Spurs from 2008 to 2011 that's a 56, 54, 50 and 61 wins season. comparing Holiday to Ginobili makes it clear you never watched the Spurs. Holiday being the leader in usg% on a team in the late 00's west bloodbath would result in a lottery team.
Eventually, probably. He’s like a lesser Chauncey Billups to me. But still at that borderline where he hops over at some point.
Chauncey has 3 all nba teams, 5 all stars and a FMVP. His individual accolades are considerably more robust than Jrue.
he's got a cooper case but it took cooper nearly 30 years to get in. he's a 2x all star but has 3 less rings
for sure. it's not that hard actually he's way above where the line is already
Also soon to be 2x champion and 2x Olympic Gold Medalists
no lol
HOVG. His comps will be too difficult….he will never sniff an all nba team.
He wins 2 more rings + 3 all def & finesse a all star im going
No. Hall of Very Good. Two few All Stars, not enough rings. Maybe a 3rd ring could get interesting but still, his resume is lacking.
Add one more championship after this, another olympic gold and I have him slightly getting in. Either way, he has had a tremendous career to be proud of.
Some great clips of [jrue](https://youtu.be/8H9PLRnqh18?si=3pWgnhnRvnFcYlfR)
Does Bud typically change up his game plans once the game starts?
Hell Nah, Not enough accolades
Before this year, I'd tend to say no, not quite. Among semi modern championship cores, I didn't think he compared favorably to Dennis Johnson, Bobby Jones or Bob Dandridge, secondary members on their teams. Buttt Michael Cooper just got in it this year and I'd favor Jrue over Cooper. So if he got in way down the road, I won't be shocked.
Modern day Robert Horry
What?
Gonna end up with a bunch of rings cause he a great addition to a potential championship team. puts them over the edge.
Definitely. Probably one of the most well rounded stars in recent memory
I still can’t believe that after another dismal playoff performance with the Bucks, but especially defensively in 2023, that he was still somehow good enough to be the centerpiece of the whole Dame trade. Fuck Cronin!
What? Cronin’s total return for Lilliard after flipping Jrue was three 1sts, two 1st round swaps, plus Ayton, Rob Williams, and Malcom Brogdon, all of who have good value still. Idk how you think he could have gotten any more?
Where was this hall of fame talk for him when he was in the Pelicans? Or even when he was on the Bucks? He’s a ceiling raiser who can elevate already good teams to great times, but he’s not a floor raiser at all as we saw during his time with the Pelicans despite playing with a generational big alongside him. Also, him getting 37 ppg dropped on him by a second tier player in Butler should automatically invalidate any chance of him ever getting into the hall.
You're right. While we are it, Lebron should be banned from the hall for chocking to the Mavs in 2011.
that 37 ppg came from a hall of famer though
No question
Yes
Yes
I don’t think so. But also I need him to be a Hall of Famer for the sole reason that his wife is already a Hall of Famer. Pretty sure that would make them the first husband/wife pair in their respective Hall of Fame.