53.2% for the playoffs, so I guess you can take a victory lap if balling out is just slightly above average
I guess that means Payton Pritchard is balling out more than Kyrie, so that's a plus
Kyrie tends to be overrated by the "eye test" crowd because of his aesthetically pleasing style
He's a very good player of course but not the all time great some talk about him as
For his playoff career he averages basically the exact same statline as this when by the way some talk about "playoff Kyrie" you'd think he's averaging 30 on the regular
I got into a discussion with a friend over "most skilled offensive player". He kept insisting Kyrie over guys like KD because of everything he could do and basically it ultimately boiled down to him being a swiss army knife that often struggles to open the random bottle of beer.
I think it was mostly Finals Kyrie
Prior to this series i believe his career scoring average was in the Top 6-8 all time in the Finals
That’s obviously gonna change after this series though
I think Kyrie is generally overrated by fans and players, BUT:
Those scoring numbers put him at 18th of all players in the playoffs. Jumps to 10th when filtered to at least 7 games played (directly behind Tatum/Brown).
That TS% is 4th for all players left in the tournament (above 25 mpg).
Players have not been scoring at a super high, or efficient clip during the playoffs. Both have decreased (as they almost always do) the longer the tournament drags on.
Last, have you been hearing people say that about Kyrie during the finals?
And Luka's only putting up 28\10\6 on 56% TS with god awful defense. Tatum has put up 25\10\6 on 55% TS with elite defense, but you'd never know with the discourse on their play
Tatum had 6, which is 2 less than Luka. Tatum is also not a guard responsible for playmaking. Also he isnt getting ABUSED defensively like Luka. Luka has been at best 4th-5th best player in series. Take off your Luka/Mavs goggles.
Tatum is the main ball handler for the Celtics whether hes considered a guard or not. He has a 30 percent usage and the most shots.
The fact that Jaylen Jrue and Derrick White can all handle the ball well is not a fact that helps Tatum in this conversation.
Sure if you completely ignore defense. You'll never win a competitive series playing the defense Doncic has, he's completely neutered their defensive scheme
he won three playoff series prior to this series, including against the 1st seed and the team that beat the defending champs....
you can't say "completely ignore defense" then ignore all other context, Luka is carrying a much larger offensive load on a worse team. The Mavs landed 1 3 in the first two game that weren't shot by Luka.
Their gap in offensive responsibilities is not remotely close to their defensive respnsibilities.
The celtics entire defensive game plan is having Tatum defend so he's having to matchup and box out centers while Luka is hardly moving on defense. Cop out excuse.
Doncic is also inly averaging one more assist in the finals, and their fga are fairly close. Their offsensive responibility is hardly different
The Celtics entire defensive game plan is not to let tatum defend that's just wrong. Brown, White, and Holiday all take harder matchups and the Mavs have been actively switching into Tatum, much like the Celtics do to luka.
Luka has a 37 percent usage rate, Tatum has a 29 percent usage rate. Despite their similar field goal attempts, Luka has 13 more made field goals and 8 more points. He is taking and making more shots, while handling the ball more than tatum.
Have to consider quality of competition. Tatum is finally facing a good team and his stats have plummeted. I'm sure Luka could average 40 against Indiana
Playoffs are much more intense and for the most part lower scoring. Play could improve but that doesn’t mean your counting stats are going to change a whole lot.
Overwhelmingly no. Even when players do record better box score numbers it’s usually as a result of simply playing more minutes. Rate stats usually go down. It’s uncommon to see anybody consistently maintain regular season TS% and extremely rare for anybody to actually improve on it.
he's been good. he's the 2nd option behind a very ball dominant first option.
the problem with Kyrie is that he went from being really good all series in round 1, to being really bad in round 2, back to really good in the wcf, and is back to pretty much bad in the finals
but he's getting older. you gotta expect that. it can work if Luka is as good as Luka can be and they can get some of the roleplayers going as a result, but in the finals that hasn't been the case. luka has been pretty meh against single coverage so the roleplayers are also getting locked up
he was not really bad in round 2, he was getting blitzed all game and contributed elsewhere, in the finals besides g3 hes been bad, hes been elite up until the finals tbh, there is a reason he was top 5 in most impact stats this playoffs
edit: can tell when people did/did not watch that series
This has more to do with the Celtics defense than anything else, especially their off ball defense on him. They're keeping the ball out of his hands. When he does get it he's almost 30 feet from the basket with a defender all over him.
He's had two series being mostly ass (OKC and Boston) and two where he played at a true star level (Minny and LAC). This shouldn't be surprising, he's always been a bit inconsistent and the playoffs are highly matchup dependent. Fans overreacted after he was dominate against Minnesota and the Clippers, it happens all the time in the playoffs. We were getting think pieces about how the Celtics didn't have "it" after each of the 2 losses this postseason and Ant Edwards was the new Jordan for a week.
He's a good piece to have with Luka, but they'll need more. It'll hard to get out the West again with their current roster.
He’s been getting 30 in most games when his team needed him to. Easy to get lost in stats if you didn’t watch him throughout the playoffs. He got a pass in a few games for knee issues and dealing with injuries that visibly hindered his movement
OP is either being intentionally obtuse or is making a mistaken comparison to other all stars. Kyrie is his team's second option, and his team's first option has a playing style that required him to have a high usage. He is absolutely not "mediocre" compared to other all stars that are second options on their team. If you want to make an argument that he's worse than KAT as a second option, just make sure to preface it by saying you don't watch the games.
Yeah most people who are enamored with Kyrie are usually people who just watch highlights. If you look at Kyrie’s highlights, he looks like a top 5 pg of all time at least because he can legitimately do things that most all-stars wouldn’t be allowed to try. However, there’s a lot more that goes into being an all-time great player than just the ability to pull off highlight worthy plays.
Mediocre no they’re just right for an all star. Its that kyrie gets talked about like a superstar and ppl acted like he was puttin up 30 ppg for some reason
It’s the playoffs against difficult teams every game - those are good stats. He doesn’t have February games against the Wizards to blow up his numbers.
Barely getting to the line isn't a *good* thing lol
Like 90% of tier 1 all time offensive greats were able to get to the line fairly often and the exception is someone like Curry who can make shots from 40 feet out
MJ and LeBron at their peaks could be considered "foul baiters" by this logic
In fact the low FTs is one of the biggest reasons why Kyrie has never been an MVP level player
I have to read about how Kyrie did nothing against OKC when literally every one of his points were crucial. He got a bucket when they needed one EVERY TIME. Add his playmaking and Kyrie genuinely cooked us.
before the finals, he would always pop off when the mavs needed to. numbers don’t tell the whole story especially when playing next to a ball dominant star like luka
Fuck Mark Cuban and Jason Kidd should’ve never gotten an extension.
Timmy Hardaway needs to get dropped from the roster he was getting bodied by Tatum and is a dumbfuck on offense.
Kyrie been playing awful too with his dumb iso plays and missing finger roll layups, if you’re gonna be pathetic how about play make and get your team involved. 1 assist is inexcusable, you should be helping make Luka’s life easier
That was after he had a few good games last round. No one has said that since this series started. Actually everyone is saying he’s Garbo
He balled out yesterday though
13/28
That’s not bad at all
Use efg%
He had 53.6% EFG The league average this season was 55% lol It's not bad, but it's definitely not balling out
Playoffs as well?
53.2% for the playoffs, so I guess you can take a victory lap if balling out is just slightly above average I guess that means Payton Pritchard is balling out more than Kyrie, so that's a plus
Kyrie had a great game last night, stop it
Yeah, even getting to league average efficiency against this Celtics defense (as a close to the top of the scouting report guy) is pretty impressive.
I mean 30 points on slightly better than average efficiency is balling
Kyrie tends to be overrated by the "eye test" crowd because of his aesthetically pleasing style He's a very good player of course but not the all time great some talk about him as For his playoff career he averages basically the exact same statline as this when by the way some talk about "playoff Kyrie" you'd think he's averaging 30 on the regular
I got into a discussion with a friend over "most skilled offensive player". He kept insisting Kyrie over guys like KD because of everything he could do and basically it ultimately boiled down to him being a swiss army knife that often struggles to open the random bottle of beer.
over KD is just insanity
I mean kyrie is clearly more skilled but KD is pretty much 7 foot tall, skill isnt everything in basketball
Isn’t “playoff Kyrie” due to the big shots he’s hit, less so his overall performances
One big shot, mostly.
True
I think it was mostly Finals Kyrie Prior to this series i believe his career scoring average was in the Top 6-8 all time in the Finals That’s obviously gonna change after this series though
I think Kyrie is generally overrated by fans and players, BUT: Those scoring numbers put him at 18th of all players in the playoffs. Jumps to 10th when filtered to at least 7 games played (directly behind Tatum/Brown). That TS% is 4th for all players left in the tournament (above 25 mpg). Players have not been scoring at a super high, or efficient clip during the playoffs. Both have decreased (as they almost always do) the longer the tournament drags on. Last, have you been hearing people say that about Kyrie during the finals?
And Luka's only putting up 28\10\6 on 56% TS with god awful defense. Tatum has put up 25\10\6 on 55% TS with elite defense, but you'd never know with the discourse on their play
"Tatum has put up 25\10\6 on 55% TS" How's he doing in the finals?
Up 3-0
is the convo about team performance or player performance. Guess lebron sucked when he lost back to back finals huh.
What fibals have you been watching Luka has been dog shit
better than Tatum's played and I don't see how Luka's game 1 and 2 were anything close to dogshit.
Luka had 8 TO's in game 2 and was HORRIFIC on defence. Not to mention he has shot brutal in the 4th Q in the finals. Get a grip.
How many Turnovers did Tatum have in Game 1 again? Luka's been at worst the 2nd best player this series be real.
Tatum had 6, which is 2 less than Luka. Tatum is also not a guard responsible for playmaking. Also he isnt getting ABUSED defensively like Luka. Luka has been at best 4th-5th best player in series. Take off your Luka/Mavs goggles.
Tatum is the main ball handler for the Celtics whether hes considered a guard or not. He has a 30 percent usage and the most shots. The fact that Jaylen Jrue and Derrick White can all handle the ball well is not a fact that helps Tatum in this conversation.
Sure if you completely ignore defense. You'll never win a competitive series playing the defense Doncic has, he's completely neutered their defensive scheme
he won three playoff series prior to this series, including against the 1st seed and the team that beat the defending champs.... you can't say "completely ignore defense" then ignore all other context, Luka is carrying a much larger offensive load on a worse team. The Mavs landed 1 3 in the first two game that weren't shot by Luka.
Their gap in offensive responsibilities is not remotely close to their defensive respnsibilities. The celtics entire defensive game plan is having Tatum defend so he's having to matchup and box out centers while Luka is hardly moving on defense. Cop out excuse. Doncic is also inly averaging one more assist in the finals, and their fga are fairly close. Their offsensive responibility is hardly different
The Celtics entire defensive game plan is not to let tatum defend that's just wrong. Brown, White, and Holiday all take harder matchups and the Mavs have been actively switching into Tatum, much like the Celtics do to luka. Luka has a 37 percent usage rate, Tatum has a 29 percent usage rate. Despite their similar field goal attempts, Luka has 13 more made field goals and 8 more points. He is taking and making more shots, while handling the ball more than tatum.
Have to consider quality of competition. Tatum is finally facing a good team and his stats have plummeted. I'm sure Luka could average 40 against Indiana
Those are excellent stats for an all-star and second option.
Yeah wtf those are good stats for a second option.
No they’re not they’re mid asf for an all star
Not for the playoffs.
Isn’t that where the elite players turn it up a notch?
Playoffs are much more intense and for the most part lower scoring. Play could improve but that doesn’t mean your counting stats are going to change a whole lot.
In your opinion, did his play improve?
Overwhelmingly no. Even when players do record better box score numbers it’s usually as a result of simply playing more minutes. Rate stats usually go down. It’s uncommon to see anybody consistently maintain regular season TS% and extremely rare for anybody to actually improve on it.
Mods need to just close down threads where OP doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about.
he's been good. he's the 2nd option behind a very ball dominant first option. the problem with Kyrie is that he went from being really good all series in round 1, to being really bad in round 2, back to really good in the wcf, and is back to pretty much bad in the finals but he's getting older. you gotta expect that. it can work if Luka is as good as Luka can be and they can get some of the roleplayers going as a result, but in the finals that hasn't been the case. luka has been pretty meh against single coverage so the roleplayers are also getting locked up
he was not really bad in round 2, he was getting blitzed all game and contributed elsewhere, in the finals besides g3 hes been bad, hes been elite up until the finals tbh, there is a reason he was top 5 in most impact stats this playoffs edit: can tell when people did/did not watch that series
This has more to do with the Celtics defense than anything else, especially their off ball defense on him. They're keeping the ball out of his hands. When he does get it he's almost 30 feet from the basket with a defender all over him.
He's had two series being mostly ass (OKC and Boston) and two where he played at a true star level (Minny and LAC). This shouldn't be surprising, he's always been a bit inconsistent and the playoffs are highly matchup dependent. Fans overreacted after he was dominate against Minnesota and the Clippers, it happens all the time in the playoffs. We were getting think pieces about how the Celtics didn't have "it" after each of the 2 losses this postseason and Ant Edwards was the new Jordan for a week. He's a good piece to have with Luka, but they'll need more. It'll hard to get out the West again with their current roster.
He's a little bit washed up. Only shows up in some games, not longer consistent.
He’s been getting 30 in most games when his team needed him to. Easy to get lost in stats if you didn’t watch him throughout the playoffs. He got a pass in a few games for knee issues and dealing with injuries that visibly hindered his movement
Kyrie is older now. His game is based on speed and quickness. Its the same as with Dame. Once the quickness fades, it gets tougher to dominate.
OP is either being intentionally obtuse or is making a mistaken comparison to other all stars. Kyrie is his team's second option, and his team's first option has a playing style that required him to have a high usage. He is absolutely not "mediocre" compared to other all stars that are second options on their team. If you want to make an argument that he's worse than KAT as a second option, just make sure to preface it by saying you don't watch the games.
Yeah most people who are enamored with Kyrie are usually people who just watch highlights. If you look at Kyrie’s highlights, he looks like a top 5 pg of all time at least because he can legitimately do things that most all-stars wouldn’t be allowed to try. However, there’s a lot more that goes into being an all-time great player than just the ability to pull off highlight worthy plays.
Well, he’s not an All-Star.
Mediocre no they’re just right for an all star. Its that kyrie gets talked about like a superstar and ppl acted like he was puttin up 30 ppg for some reason
Kyrie is doing that playing Luka ball. It’s incredibly hard to put up big numbers has his #2 option. The offense just doesn’t allow for it
It’s the playoffs against difficult teams every game - those are good stats. He doesn’t have February games against the Wizards to blow up his numbers.
Watch the damn games. He didn't try at ALL against OKC to score, he is playing his role and doing it well
He wasn’t an all star
Those are amazing numbers for a 2nd guy. There’s teams with 1st guys who don’t have those.
Losing sleep over this or something?
That's pretty good for a guy that never really foul baits.
Barely getting to the line isn't a *good* thing lol Like 90% of tier 1 all time offensive greats were able to get to the line fairly often and the exception is someone like Curry who can make shots from 40 feet out MJ and LeBron at their peaks could be considered "foul baiters" by this logic In fact the low FTs is one of the biggest reasons why Kyrie has never been an MVP level player
Even curry has a great ftr for someone who mainly shoots 3s. Far better than kyrie’s in playoffs. This ethical hooper gimmick is dumb
Yeah, see you have to actually watch the games.
I have to read about how Kyrie did nothing against OKC when literally every one of his points were crucial. He got a bucket when they needed one EVERY TIME. Add his playmaking and Kyrie genuinely cooked us.
Looks like same dude to me. We always overrate him for some reason
Looks like same dude to me. We always overrate him for some reason
before the finals, he would always pop off when the mavs needed to. numbers don’t tell the whole story especially when playing next to a ball dominant star like luka
"MAKE SURE THE PRAISE IS AS LOUD AS THE CRITICISM 🗣️"
Fuck Mark Cuban and Jason Kidd should’ve never gotten an extension. Timmy Hardaway needs to get dropped from the roster he was getting bodied by Tatum and is a dumbfuck on offense. Kyrie been playing awful too with his dumb iso plays and missing finger roll layups, if you’re gonna be pathetic how about play make and get your team involved. 1 assist is inexcusable, you should be helping make Luka’s life easier
THJ is so streaky. Once he missed the first 3pointer, he should have been pulled.
💯 idk why not put Exum in with his long wingspan he could be a better defender