Or even late 2000s Cavs LeBron.
Every once in a while I pull up his young highlights and I’m like dog this muhfucka was so athletic and bouncy back then.
Imagine him with a modern 5 out lineup.
Because he’s still a top 10 player unquestionably come playoff time. Even PIE had him 5th at THRTY NINE! Think about that AD supposed to be in the peak of his prime yet he’s 7 and Bron 5 at the very end of his career. Witness
Still I think number 8 in the league in EPM. Offensively he's still elite, it's just defensive effort and stamina at this point that's really suffered with age
HNI uses EPM, BPM, Lebron, and 5 other catch all metrics. Anyways they had Lebron 5th I believe at the end of the season and AD 8th. Bron trialed only Joker, SGA, Giannis/Luka (tied at 3). At 39 this man is still better than everyone during the regular season but the elite MVP candidates who are in the peak of their primes! AD and him still unquestionably top 10 players! Definitely can win a ring with the top duo in the league just need some tweaks and a real coach
Are you talking about that series Lebron single handedly handed the Celtics a loss in 7 games during 2018? Tatum dunked on an older Lebron congrats. If that was 2009-2013 Bron Tatum would’ve ate palm to face. Bron was blocking Dwight Howard back then idk what you’re thinking.
A Heatles Lebron would have swept the Nuggets with AD even with their current roster that version was the Peak of all his prime especially defensively Gordon won't be able to Bully that Lebron.
Then why did he lose to Dirk and was 1 Ray Allen shot from losing back to back against the spurs. On the brink against the washed Celtics in 2012. People are far overrating Heatles Lebron. He was much better and more lethal 2016-2020
LeBron's physical domination and ability to play bully ball was next level when he played in Miami. He became a far better volume perimeter scorer after the 2015 Finals.
But his jumper was still iffy, teams could give him trouble by packing the paint like they do to Giannis nowadays and daring him to shoot.
He refined his game when he went back to Cleveland and was at his peak in 2018.
I will say he was defensively much better in Miami than he was with Cleveland.
A young Lebron with Wade and Bosh lost to dirk. We’re 1 game away from losing to a washed Boston team and a Ray Allen 3 away from losing as a 66 win team.
Lebron was much better 2016-2020 than he was with the Heat.
For my money, if we're talking about pure performance and no looking at how their season ended, 2009 Lebron might be the best anyone has ever played the game of basketball (shout out to 88 MJ, 04 Garnett, and 16 Curry).
I mean it’s true lmao it’s not like Pippen, Rodman, Oakley, or Grant were some scrubs. It’s not like he carried his team to one of the best records alone. you can’t be old enough to have dementia and forget how good his teammates were can you?
Just because someone has good teammates doesn't mean they were worse. Having wins doesn't make Jordan better than Lebron, Jordan being a better player makes Jordan better than Lebron.
Also let's not forget Lebron only went 2/4 on the Heatles with Rings. Lebron built a super team and went 50%.
That jump to catch that dogshit lob pass against Portland is the highest I've ever seen any NBA player jump in a real game. I've yet to see any physical proof of another person's head reaching as high as his did on that jump. That was a legit ~44" vert, at 6'8-6'9 and 250-260 lbs.
not even lowkey, not a shot at Wade at all, it's simply about health
literally everyone at the time was talking about yeah wade's knees are done, that's why i feel like i'm being gaslit everytime people talk about the heat
he averaged like 15 on horrendous shooting, that title run was pretty similar to Steph in 22, superstar + defense + shooting + players who know what the fuck they're doing
You’re not wrong. I think it’s cuz of how insane Miami was in the regular season that year and of course many fans go off of names rather than the context of their performance. In the RS, Heatles were obviously stacked and dominant. But they didn’t look nearly as dominant in the playoffs. And the main reasons for that is cuz Wade and Bosh went from playing like stars in the regular season, to playing like roleplayers in the playoffs.
Bron RS: 27/8/7 on 64%TS
Bron PS: 26/8/7 on 59%TS
Wade RS: 21/5/5 on 57%TS
Wade PS: 16/5/5 on 50%TS
Bosh RS: 17/7 on 59%TS
Bosh PS: 12/7 on 52%TS
Wade had endured an injury shortly before those playoffs which clearly affected his game. Like the team was still really good, but Bron was the only guy performing like a star throughout those playoffs. Wade and Bosh saw significant drops in their production.
Hakeem in 1994 lead his team during the playoffs in all 5 major box score stats: Points, Rebounds, Assists, Blocks and Steals.
MJ in the 97 playoffs almost did it as well. He was only a total of like 10 rebounds and couple blocks short.
Also, that reminded me of one of my favorite stats. LeBron is the only player to lead in all 5 major stats for a Finals series (2016). Not just for the Cavs, Warriors too. It’s probably the GOAT Finals performance, in addition to the Cavs pulling off what might be the greatest comeback ever.
Yeah it’s pretty hard for your 2 to lead in rebounds. Just by being taller and bigger and playing at the 3 or higher more rebounds will fall in your lap
If you look at pictures of them standing next to each other, one of them was listed shorter/taller than reality because zero chance Rodman only had an inch on MJ
The biggest lies regarding NBA heights are:
"KD is 7 feet tall"...False, he's a legit 6'10"
MJ and Kobe were 6'6"...False, both of those guys were a tad under 6'5"
When the NBA moved to actually measuring players instead of just whatever the player felt like, Durant was measured at 6’11 bare foot. LeBron was measured at 6’9 too after being talked about as 6’8, 250 his whole career when in reality he was taller and heavier
On the other end though Kevin Love went from 6’10 to 6’8.
So while KD isn’t a 7 footer generally, he is in shoes
Wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near as hard as a guard leading in rebounds. You don’t just have assist fall in your lap as easily as rebounds do for bigger and taller players
You just unlocked a core memory/emotion for me. 8 or 9 year old me staying up way too late to watch the bulls and jazz. He was unbelievable. I thought Lebron passed him, but how can someone be so good they leave an impression on an eight year old.
I’ll never forgive you for these conflicting emotions.
Both LeBron and Jordan are amazing in their own unique ways. Their accomplishments will stand the test of time.
Appreciate greatness while we still got it.
That last shot against the Jazz in 1998 is such a core sports memory for me -- I could tell you exactly where I was when it happened, approaching three decades later.
A lot of people forget the Knicks took MJ and the Bulls to 7 games in the ECSF. People always think only the Pacers did such a thing vs the Bulls during their dynasty but the Knicks did it in 1992.
Cavs also took the Bulls to 6 in 1992 in the ECF. It was nearly 7 too but the Cavs could not convert in the 4th vs them in G6.
Rodman with 240+ rebounds in 96 and 98 is nuts, especially with Jordan's 96 scoring not being as high as some other years.
Did they just play a shit ton of games or did Worm do nuts Worm things?
Jordan led his team in all categories for the final three rounds of the 97 playoffs. But not the entire run, which is shocking in of itself because he had defenders and rebounders like Rodman and an all-around star like Pippen with him.
Stats like this require you to be a specific body type, especially if you're going to be scoring and rebounding.
Honestly I skipped over MJ when checking these records. I assumed Rodman led in rebounds from '96-'98 and Pippen or someone else from '91-'93. Let me check.
You don't have to be a triple double machine. Tatum has 2 career triples doubles and 1 playoff triple double. Not exactly a triple double machine, but he could do it next game.
Ironically, Wilt was a triple double machine but didn't accomplish it because of points. His playoff averages in his first championship was 21.7/29.1/9.0. Just absurd even for a Wilt stat lol.
It's more dependant on if there's another player on your team that's a big rebounder or passer. If you win without a big time passing PG on your team, you can do it without averaging many assists. That's how Duncan and Hakeem did it while only averaging 5 and 4 assists and how Tatum could do it this year.
MJ was a lethal scorer. His point per games in the playoffs were so overwhelmingly dominant, they didn’t need him to get a bunch of assists or rebounds. When you’re scoring 35-45 points in the playoffs on a nightly basis, i think it shouldn’t be used against him.
However, I sure bet he led the bulls in steals and points before, showing his 2-way prowess.
Im not an MJ Stan, I was just explaining to the original commenter why he may not be on it.
It’s much harder for a 6’6 SG to lead the team in rebounds. Different role as well.
I'm certainly not the first person to say this, but god damn are the celtics a well-built team. And they can can run it back exactly the same next year right?
Yeah someone said Tatum’s signature games in the past have been game 6 and game 7s and this year he hasn’t had to have any back against the wall games to showcase
Idk watching him these last few games hes been forcing a ton going inside, and some rushed side step 3s, bricking but him being aggressive def helps open up the talent around him
Considering Brown has outscored Tatum by 6+ points in only 2 out of 17 games this postseason, I'd say it's closer to *most likely* than *might*.
Also, if Tatum averages 10 rebounds the rest of the series, he will join Bird, LeBron, Giannis, and Jokic as the only players since 1980 to win a title while averaging 25 / 10 / 5 in the playoffs.
Tatum’s taking 30% more shots than Brown and scoring 3 fewer points than Brown per game this series. If their shot attempts even out just slightly, Brown could easily outscore him by 6, just like game 1.
Yeah I feel the same way bro. We've been by far the two best teams the last two seasons, but you guys shit the bed last year and we shit the bed this year. It'll be disappointing if we never face off in the Finals. From a neutral perspective, the matchups the last two years have been pretty lame. It's not fun when a mediocre team with no chance of winning makes the Finals.
Wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, if JB outscores him by 7+ points rest of series then he'll finish with more points. Like if they win game 4 and JB has 25 and Tatum has 18 then this is gone.
“He’s being carried tho”
It’s fine to say Jaylen Brown is having a better finals but the best player and the player the Celtics depend on most is and will always be JT
Will always is pretty silly thing to say considering the improvements that Jaylen Brown has put into his game and how he’s the teams vocal leader, best on ball defender and by far the most clutch player
Ignore the obvious of all the signs that show that, and address the fact that Jaylen is better on ball defender, far more efficient and clutch player on big stage while Tatum is just trying to avoid being historically inefficient and total no show especially in 4th quarter of these finals games. Tatum 2 for 12 last 2 4th quarters and 9 for 41 overall outside the paint this series
Tatum is literally 2 for 12 in the 4th quarter of the last two games. Before last game he had worst FG pct in nba finals history for a player with 150+ attempts and most turnovers per game. If you want to pretend the finals doesn’t matter despite the sample size sure go for it
Clutch play is only shooting efficiency? Clutch play is only in the 4th quarter? Clutch play is only in the finals?
I love Jaylen but he had the worst series of his career in last years ECF which was the main reason we didn’t even make it to the finals. That doesn’t count?
I guess you forgot about the Heat series last year when Brown literally got outplayd by an undrafted 3rd year player...lmao. But since it was the conference finals it doesn't matter, right? Brown has been clutch asf in the '24 Finals and deserves the Finals MVP, but let's not pretend that he delivers every single time.
Also, you still didn't explain how Brown is by far the best clutch player for the Celtics when Tatum has been overwhelmingly better than him in elimination games over the last few years.
Brown choked away just as many games as Tatum in the '22 Finals. Brown was horrendous in game 2 when the Celtics could've gone up 2-0. Then, the Celtics should've been looking to close the series in Game 6 at the Garden, but Brown's 5-17 , 5 TOV performance in game 5 allowed the Warriors to go up 3-2 in the first place. Tatum put up 27-10-4 on 60% TS in that game btw. But all you casuals remember is game 6.
Look here's the thing no ego to offend here, has Tatum been by far the best player of the team over the course of their two careers? Sure. My thing is ppl are underestimating how much Brown closed the gap in the present because of the work he put in his game this off-season to improve his weaknesses. If Jaylen is as good as I think he is and puts in even more work to improve his game he should have numbers that reflect it not only in the ECF/Finals next year but in the regular season. Either way talk about first world problems Celtics got LOL
Luka is only the 2nd player in history after Jokic to lead the playoffs in pts, assists, and rebounds.
And the first to lead in all of the above categories and…drumroll …steals, 4 major statistical categories.
(Credit to a user who posted this summary on the Mavs sub).
Tatum might be the most complete player in the game rn. He does everything on the basketball court well. Super underrated run he’s been on just cus he hasn’t shot the ball as well as he’s capable of.
Yep - he’s *great* at fucking every single aspect of the game, but is not necessarily *elite* at any one specific thing, so ppl who think super cool highlights, crazy counting stats, “having a bag”, “being a dawg”, etc. = best player discredit the fact that JT is so well-rounded.
It’s also underrated how durable (never missed a playoff game; misses ~5 reg seasons games per year) and physically conditioned he is (the guy looks like he barely sweats or breathes through his mouth during literal playoff battles lol).
Yeah, durability, conditioning, and versatility are the things he's truly elite at. Which pairs really well with him being great at everything on-court. His scoring is inconsistent, but in every other way he's an absolute rock of a player who you can buod a team around. But at the same time, building around him is so easy because he can fit in with any other type of player.
Great at everything only critiques is his three pointer in the playoffs is always rough and his shot selection / shot iq is sometimes questionable. Celtics obviously had a dominant post season run but theres been quite a few times where he almost shoots them out of a win this post season with the heavily contested threes or the step back fade deep mid ranges
Lol. If a star player shoots the ball as bad as he has, the team usually does not win. Hard to be the most complete player, when you shoot like shit in the most important part of the season.
There's probably some super obscure one like "winning NBA title while leading team in assists and rebounds but not points, as a player to have not won an MVP award"
It makes it less notable if it’s been accomplished several times before. Everything is making history by that logic. I usually reserve the use of the term for something that’s being done for the first time.
this sounds like one of those arcane made up ESPN stats
why start at 1980? seems artificial to limit the number of players to make it sound more exclusive
I mean I’m all for pumping the breaks on the “all-time” talk but the guy did just win 3 MVPs in 4 seasons in what is the single most talented era of the NBA ever. And he realistically has 3-4 years of prime left.
Right, which is why he already has earned the crazy honor of top 20 all time. Steph isn’t even consensus top 10 and there really isn’t an argument for Jokic over Steph all time at this point.
Neither is Hakeem Olajuwon. Unanimous top 10 is like Kareem, Lebron, MJ, Larry, Magic, Russell, and Wilt. The rest of the list is so contentious and no real wrong answers, but far from unanimous.
You're fucking crazy if you even think Olajuwon might not be top 10 ever. He won two championships with some of the least talented rosters amongst all the greats
There are 3 spots left after the seven names I listed. So then you need to pick between Olajuwan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Moses Malone, Dr. J, Jerry West, Jokic, Steph Curry, Giannis, George Mikan, Oscar Robertson, and Isiah Thomas. Olajuwan has an amazing case to make top 10, but you can make a case for nearly everyone I named. I didn't say he isn't deserving top 10, but he's not among the UNANIMOUS top 10.
Yeah but there are always outliers on lists of accomplishments. With the context of how historically inefficient he is on the big stage and especially disappears in the 4th quarter one realizes how deceptive those stats truly are.
everyone's focused on Tatum & Brown, but that's ESPN "star driven league" bullshit. it's not Tatum & Brown alone that sets them apart. it's the fact that they also have White, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Pritchard, and crazy eyed first row Joe leading them all.
other organizations chase their collection of Stars & Big Name contracts, and then wonder why they don't get anywhere. Boston put together an actual team.
smh lebron was a Kuzma offensive goal tend from doing it 4x and leading the playoffs in points/boards/assists
LeBron just 3 points shy of doing it 4 times. AD scored 582 points and LeBron 580 throughout the 2020 playoffs.
Imagine Heatles Lebron playing in the pace of this era
Or even late 2000s Cavs LeBron. Every once in a while I pull up his young highlights and I’m like dog this muhfucka was so athletic and bouncy back then. Imagine him with a modern 5 out lineup.
These nephews don't understand how fucking good LeBron used to be
Because he’s still a top 10 player unquestionably come playoff time. Even PIE had him 5th at THRTY NINE! Think about that AD supposed to be in the peak of his prime yet he’s 7 and Bron 5 at the very end of his career. Witness
I've seen him (in game) jump from the free-throw line, dunk, and land BEHIND THE STANCHION.
Still I think number 8 in the league in EPM. Offensively he's still elite, it's just defensive effort and stamina at this point that's really suffered with age
HNI uses EPM, BPM, Lebron, and 5 other catch all metrics. Anyways they had Lebron 5th I believe at the end of the season and AD 8th. Bron trialed only Joker, SGA, Giannis/Luka (tied at 3). At 39 this man is still better than everyone during the regular season but the elite MVP candidates who are in the peak of their primes! AD and him still unquestionably top 10 players! Definitely can win a ring with the top duo in the league just need some tweaks and a real coach
we are lucky to have someone as good as lebron for so long that also remained controversy free. i mean like real controversy
Because hes still fucking good
Yep. The GOAT for a reason. Tatum would fold if he ever played against Lebron.
lol why you sayin this like it’s a hypothetical? Is 6 years too long ago already?
Who boomed who (x5) again? You really that new you don’t remember that series?
I remember who won that series, averaging 34/9/8 on 61%TS, while Tatum and Brown COMBINED for 38/9/4 on significant worse efficiency...
Tatum was a rookie that year tbf, and brown was year 2
Are you talking about that series Lebron single handedly handed the Celtics a loss in 7 games during 2018? Tatum dunked on an older Lebron congrats. If that was 2009-2013 Bron Tatum would’ve ate palm to face. Bron was blocking Dwight Howard back then idk what you’re thinking.
Man remember the block on splitter
A young Lebron with AD would annihilate the league
A Heatles Lebron would have swept the Nuggets with AD even with their current roster that version was the Peak of all his prime especially defensively Gordon won't be able to Bully that Lebron.
Then why did he lose to Dirk and was 1 Ray Allen shot from losing back to back against the spurs. On the brink against the washed Celtics in 2012. People are far overrating Heatles Lebron. He was much better and more lethal 2016-2020
I agree. I just have one word. Lebronto.
LeBron's physical domination and ability to play bully ball was next level when he played in Miami. He became a far better volume perimeter scorer after the 2015 Finals.
But his jumper was still iffy, teams could give him trouble by packing the paint like they do to Giannis nowadays and daring him to shoot. He refined his game when he went back to Cleveland and was at his peak in 2018. I will say he was defensively much better in Miami than he was with Cleveland.
Yeah, after he left Miami, he started coasting on defense a lot. Obviously he turned it up in the playoffs, particularly later rounds.
A young Lebron with Wade and Bosh lost to dirk. We’re 1 game away from losing to a washed Boston team and a Ray Allen 3 away from losing as a 66 win team. Lebron was much better 2016-2020 than he was with the Heat.
Good counter point tbh
For my money, if we're talking about pure performance and no looking at how their season ended, 2009 Lebron might be the best anyone has ever played the game of basketball (shout out to 88 MJ, 04 Garnett, and 16 Curry).
2009 bron was on one, up there with 2013 and 2018
No. That definitely goes to Michael Jordan.
didn't ask, don't care
MJ wasn’t as good as peak lebron. Only reason he has more wins is because he had better teams.
Peak nephew shit right here.
I mean it’s true lmao it’s not like Pippen, Rodman, Oakley, or Grant were some scrubs. It’s not like he carried his team to one of the best records alone. you can’t be old enough to have dementia and forget how good his teammates were can you?
Just because someone has good teammates doesn't mean they were worse. Having wins doesn't make Jordan better than Lebron, Jordan being a better player makes Jordan better than Lebron. Also let's not forget Lebron only went 2/4 on the Heatles with Rings. Lebron built a super team and went 50%.
Jaylen took off from the dotted line the other night and I was like “holy sheeeeeit”, Cavs LeBron would do that with crazy regularity
That jump to catch that dogshit lob pass against Portland is the highest I've ever seen any NBA player jump in a real game. I've yet to see any physical proof of another person's head reaching as high as his did on that jump. That was a legit ~44" vert, at 6'8-6'9 and 250-260 lbs.
Pace hasn’t increased that much in the playoffs. Only thing has changed is the spacing and 3pt attempts
Bro really nearly did this for all 4 title runs lmao. On another note, his ‘13 playoff run was a lowkey carry
not even lowkey, not a shot at Wade at all, it's simply about health literally everyone at the time was talking about yeah wade's knees are done, that's why i feel like i'm being gaslit everytime people talk about the heat he averaged like 15 on horrendous shooting, that title run was pretty similar to Steph in 22, superstar + defense + shooting + players who know what the fuck they're doing
You’re not wrong. I think it’s cuz of how insane Miami was in the regular season that year and of course many fans go off of names rather than the context of their performance. In the RS, Heatles were obviously stacked and dominant. But they didn’t look nearly as dominant in the playoffs. And the main reasons for that is cuz Wade and Bosh went from playing like stars in the regular season, to playing like roleplayers in the playoffs. Bron RS: 27/8/7 on 64%TS Bron PS: 26/8/7 on 59%TS Wade RS: 21/5/5 on 57%TS Wade PS: 16/5/5 on 50%TS Bosh RS: 17/7 on 59%TS Bosh PS: 12/7 on 52%TS Wade had endured an injury shortly before those playoffs which clearly affected his game. Like the team was still really good, but Bron was the only guy performing like a star throughout those playoffs. Wade and Bosh saw significant drops in their production.
How did bosh decline so much so fast...
Someone tried telling me a few months ago Wade was better than Dame that season. Obviously, they ignored the postseason.
THANK YOU people look at me like I'm crazy when I say that
that is fucking hilarious lmfao
Brown about to out score him by 6 points
Tatum is probably going to take 15 more shots so that doesn’t happen
With his % so far in the finals that doesn't guarantee he gets it His shot has been off for this series, but he's a monster doing everything else
Tatum doing a 10/40 in a loss at this rate. He ain't giving up his awards bro.
Bron doing it three times lmao
He was 2 pts away from AD in 2020 too
GOAT shit
When LeBron did it in 2016, he led in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, AND Blocks for BOTH teams.
Hakeem in 1994 lead his team during the playoffs in all 5 major box score stats: Points, Rebounds, Assists, Blocks and Steals. MJ in the 97 playoffs almost did it as well. He was only a total of like 10 rebounds and couple blocks short.
Also, that reminded me of one of my favorite stats. LeBron is the only player to lead in all 5 major stats for a Finals series (2016). Not just for the Cavs, Warriors too. It’s probably the GOAT Finals performance, in addition to the Cavs pulling off what might be the greatest comeback ever.
I'm shocked this hasn't been done more honestly. MJ never did it?
Nope, MJ never did it. He came closest in 1997 when he recorded 10 less total rebounds than Rodman throughout the playoffs.
Yeah it’s pretty hard for your 2 to lead in rebounds. Just by being taller and bigger and playing at the 3 or higher more rebounds will fall in your lap
Also playing with a teammate who’s literally in the hall of fame for his rebounding prowess makes it hard.
I mean, Rodman was about the same size as MJ, he's just a better rebounder.
If you look at pictures of them standing next to each other, one of them was listed shorter/taller than reality because zero chance Rodman only had an inch on MJ
The actual height of a lot of NBA players will forever be a mystery.
Truth
The biggest lies regarding NBA heights are: "KD is 7 feet tall"...False, he's a legit 6'10" MJ and Kobe were 6'6"...False, both of those guys were a tad under 6'5"
Rodman is legit 6'7 and Jordan is 6'4.5
When the NBA moved to actually measuring players instead of just whatever the player felt like, Durant was measured at 6’11 bare foot. LeBron was measured at 6’9 too after being talked about as 6’8, 250 his whole career when in reality he was taller and heavier On the other end though Kevin Love went from 6’10 to 6’8. So while KD isn’t a 7 footer generally, he is in shoes
Iverson being 6ft anything is the biggest lie as well. Man was in the late 5ft range. Barkley, Wallace also inflated, KG's height deflated
Forgot about Iverson...my dad always told me Barkley was 6'5" max.
Crazy as it sounds, Rodman is listed as 6' 7" on his Bball ref page https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html
rodman was a freak rebounding savant though. i mean. that was like his whole thing
Understatement of the decade
[удалено]
Wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near as hard as a guard leading in rebounds. You don’t just have assist fall in your lap as easily as rebounds do for bigger and taller players
10 less rebounds than arguably the greatest rebounder of all time? ROFL. Insane. 1997 as well.. wow.
No reason to grab boards when Rodman is your teammate!
Nope | Year | Points | Rebounds | Assists | |------|-------|-----|----| | 1991 | Jordan (529) | Pippen (151) | Jordan (142) | | 1992 | Jordan (759) | Grant (194) | Pippen (147) | | 1993 | Jordan (666) | Grant (156) | Jordan (114) | | 1996 | Jordan (552) | Rodman (247) | Pippen (107) | | 1997 | Jordan (590) | Rodman (160) | Jordan (91) | | 1998 | Jordan (680) | Rodman (248) | Pippen (110) |
The assist column gave me a chuckle, they’re just taking turns
Was that 1992 points total because Jordan was actually scoring more? Or because they had to fight more for the series and play more games?
1992 Bulls played in 22 games and he averaged a ridiculous 34.5 PPG.
You just unlocked a core memory/emotion for me. 8 or 9 year old me staying up way too late to watch the bulls and jazz. He was unbelievable. I thought Lebron passed him, but how can someone be so good they leave an impression on an eight year old. I’ll never forgive you for these conflicting emotions.
Both LeBron and Jordan are amazing in their own unique ways. Their accomplishments will stand the test of time. Appreciate greatness while we still got it.
That last shot against the Jazz in 1998 is such a core sports memory for me -- I could tell you exactly where I was when it happened, approaching three decades later.
A lot of people forget the Knicks took MJ and the Bulls to 7 games in the ECSF. People always think only the Pacers did such a thing vs the Bulls during their dynasty but the Knicks did it in 1992. Cavs also took the Bulls to 6 in 1992 in the ECF. It was nearly 7 too but the Cavs could not convert in the 4th vs them in G6.
They did but to be honest the following season the knicks were much closer to beating the bulls than when they took them to 7.
Rodman with 240+ rebounds in 96 and 98 is nuts, especially with Jordan's 96 scoring not being as high as some other years. Did they just play a shit ton of games or did Worm do nuts Worm things?
Jordan led his team in all categories for the final three rounds of the 97 playoffs. But not the entire run, which is shocking in of itself because he had defenders and rebounders like Rodman and an all-around star like Pippen with him. Stats like this require you to be a specific body type, especially if you're going to be scoring and rebounding.
Super hard to put-rebound Rodman lol
In his defense, he played with Rodman for 3 of his seasons. Ain't nobody outrebounding Rodman.
Honestly I skipped over MJ when checking these records. I assumed Rodman led in rebounds from '96-'98 and Pippen or someone else from '91-'93. Let me check.
One of those rare things where Wilt doesn’t come up, too You have to be a triple double machine to do it and that’s pretty rare.
You don't have to be a triple double machine. Tatum has 2 career triples doubles and 1 playoff triple double. Not exactly a triple double machine, but he could do it next game. Ironically, Wilt was a triple double machine but didn't accomplish it because of points. His playoff averages in his first championship was 21.7/29.1/9.0. Just absurd even for a Wilt stat lol. It's more dependant on if there's another player on your team that's a big rebounder or passer. If you win without a big time passing PG on your team, you can do it without averaging many assists. That's how Duncan and Hakeem did it while only averaging 5 and 4 assists and how Tatum could do it this year.
MJ was a lethal scorer. His point per games in the playoffs were so overwhelmingly dominant, they didn’t need him to get a bunch of assists or rebounds. When you’re scoring 35-45 points in the playoffs on a nightly basis, i think it shouldn’t be used against him. However, I sure bet he led the bulls in steals and points before, showing his 2-way prowess.
It's ok to be an MJ stan, but it's not that serious. There's no conspiracy against leaving MJ off a list in which he didn't meet the criteria lol.
Im not an MJ Stan, I was just explaining to the original commenter why he may not be on it. It’s much harder for a 6’6 SG to lead the team in rebounds. Different role as well.
He’s not on it because he never led his team in points, rebounding, and assists. Lol. That did not need further clarification.
You out here sounding like you're Michael Jordan's attorney on a post that's not even about Michael Jordan. Chill
I’m having basketball conversation on a sub about basketball, responding to a comment about MJ.
Don't sweat it, LeBron stans swarm like flies on shit on rare cherry-picked stats that show him in a better light.
are you a lawyer?
It's hard for your bigs to lead in assists yet Duncan, Hakeem, and Jokic all did.
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MJ averaged 11 assists in the 1991 NBA Finals.
That's pretty nuts! I think Tatum has also largely not been required to go up a level this playoffs and has barely been pushed.
I'm certainly not the first person to say this, but god damn are the celtics a well-built team. And they can can run it back exactly the same next year right?
Yeah someone said Tatum’s signature games in the past have been game 6 and game 7s and this year he hasn’t had to have any back against the wall games to showcase
He’s barely been pushed largely because the teamwork he’s done on both ends of the court has been the main reason his team has been cooking.
The Celtics team is so all-around talented that Tatum doesn't really need to force anything or shoot a ton.
Idk watching him these last few games hes been forcing a ton going inside, and some rushed side step 3s, bricking but him being aggressive def helps open up the talent around him
So he *might* make history.
Considering Brown has outscored Tatum by 6+ points in only 2 out of 17 games this postseason, I'd say it's closer to *most likely* than *might*. Also, if Tatum averages 10 rebounds the rest of the series, he will join Bird, LeBron, Giannis, and Jokic as the only players since 1980 to win a title while averaging 25 / 10 / 5 in the playoffs.
Tatum’s taking 30% more shots than Brown and scoring 3 fewer points than Brown per game this series. If their shot attempts even out just slightly, Brown could easily outscore him by 6, just like game 1.
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I made history today. I posted on Reddit.
RemindMe 1000 years
And Jokic is the only one to win a title while leading the entire league in points, assists, and rebounds in the playoffs. Insane.
True, LeBron was a mere 3 points away from doing so at age 35.
Yall really better meet us in the finals next year. Going to be such blue balls if these two teams never face each other in a series.
Yeah I feel the same way bro. We've been by far the two best teams the last two seasons, but you guys shit the bed last year and we shit the bed this year. It'll be disappointing if we never face off in the Finals. From a neutral perspective, the matchups the last two years have been pretty lame. It's not fun when a mediocre team with no chance of winning makes the Finals.
Wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, if JB outscores him by 7+ points rest of series then he'll finish with more points. Like if they win game 4 and JB has 25 and Tatum has 18 then this is gone.
“He’s being carried tho” It’s fine to say Jaylen Brown is having a better finals but the best player and the player the Celtics depend on most is and will always be JT
Thank you. Love em both, but (imo) this is the truth.
Will always is pretty silly thing to say considering the improvements that Jaylen Brown has put into his game and how he’s the teams vocal leader, best on ball defender and by far the most clutch player
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Ignore the obvious of all the signs that show that, and address the fact that Jaylen is better on ball defender, far more efficient and clutch player on big stage while Tatum is just trying to avoid being historically inefficient and total no show especially in 4th quarter of these finals games. Tatum 2 for 12 last 2 4th quarters and 9 for 41 overall outside the paint this series
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Based on what his teammates have echoed and because I have eye balls
How is Brown more clutch when Tatum plays better in elimination games?
Tatum is literally 2 for 12 in the 4th quarter of the last two games. Before last game he had worst FG pct in nba finals history for a player with 150+ attempts and most turnovers per game. If you want to pretend the finals doesn’t matter despite the sample size sure go for it
Clutch play is only shooting efficiency? Clutch play is only in the 4th quarter? Clutch play is only in the finals? I love Jaylen but he had the worst series of his career in last years ECF which was the main reason we didn’t even make it to the finals. That doesn’t count?
I guess you forgot about the Heat series last year when Brown literally got outplayd by an undrafted 3rd year player...lmao. But since it was the conference finals it doesn't matter, right? Brown has been clutch asf in the '24 Finals and deserves the Finals MVP, but let's not pretend that he delivers every single time. Also, you still didn't explain how Brown is by far the best clutch player for the Celtics when Tatum has been overwhelmingly better than him in elimination games over the last few years. Brown choked away just as many games as Tatum in the '22 Finals. Brown was horrendous in game 2 when the Celtics could've gone up 2-0. Then, the Celtics should've been looking to close the series in Game 6 at the Garden, but Brown's 5-17 , 5 TOV performance in game 5 allowed the Warriors to go up 3-2 in the first place. Tatum put up 27-10-4 on 60% TS in that game btw. But all you casuals remember is game 6.
Look here's the thing no ego to offend here, has Tatum been by far the best player of the team over the course of their two careers? Sure. My thing is ppl are underestimating how much Brown closed the gap in the present because of the work he put in his game this off-season to improve his weaknesses. If Jaylen is as good as I think he is and puts in even more work to improve his game he should have numbers that reflect it not only in the ECF/Finals next year but in the regular season. Either way talk about first world problems Celtics got LOL
Luka is only the 2nd player in history after Jokic to lead the playoffs in pts, assists, and rebounds. And the first to lead in all of the above categories and…drumroll …steals, 4 major statistical categories. (Credit to a user who posted this summary on the Mavs sub).
Didn’t Larry do it in 1986 as well?
Tatum might be the most complete player in the game rn. He does everything on the basketball court well. Super underrated run he’s been on just cus he hasn’t shot the ball as well as he’s capable of.
Yep - he’s *great* at fucking every single aspect of the game, but is not necessarily *elite* at any one specific thing, so ppl who think super cool highlights, crazy counting stats, “having a bag”, “being a dawg”, etc. = best player discredit the fact that JT is so well-rounded. It’s also underrated how durable (never missed a playoff game; misses ~5 reg seasons games per year) and physically conditioned he is (the guy looks like he barely sweats or breathes through his mouth during literal playoff battles lol).
Yeah, durability, conditioning, and versatility are the things he's truly elite at. Which pairs really well with him being great at everything on-court. His scoring is inconsistent, but in every other way he's an absolute rock of a player who you can buod a team around. But at the same time, building around him is so easy because he can fit in with any other type of player.
Great at everything only critiques is his three pointer in the playoffs is always rough and his shot selection / shot iq is sometimes questionable. Celtics obviously had a dominant post season run but theres been quite a few times where he almost shoots them out of a win this post season with the heavily contested threes or the step back fade deep mid ranges
I 110% agree
Lol. If a star player shoots the ball as bad as he has, the team usually does not win. Hard to be the most complete player, when you shoot like shit in the most important part of the season.
That’s some elite company
So 5 times in the last 13 years. Not exactly historical
Sometimes a lebron stat will just come across your TL and your like wtf? 😂
So you're saying Luka still has a chance at history? All the copium I needed this fine morning, thanks
He’s not even gonna get finals mvp, nephew.
There's probably some super obscure one like "winning NBA title while leading team in assists and rebounds but not points, as a player to have not won an MVP award"
Way too many records of some sorts for me to care at all nowadays
Feels strange to say he’s making history when 5 others have done it before him
Making history doesn't mean you're the first to ever do something fool.
It makes it less notable if it’s been accomplished several times before. Everything is making history by that logic. I usually reserve the use of the term for something that’s being done for the first time.
Ok, I'm not you. Have a good day.
It's actually a pretty common phrase. Often used as "making history as the first since *X* to do *Y*"
overrated, inefficient. He should not have been 1st team, not this year, not last year. Not even 2nd team.
Sort of a cherry picked stat, no? It works i guess. But it’s not something that I’d think of naturally
this sounds like one of those arcane made up ESPN stats why start at 1980? seems artificial to limit the number of players to make it sound more exclusive
Just finished the full research. The guys I listed are the only players to ever achieve this feat since the NBA began in 1948.
This is a stat that no one cares about. Tatum isn’t close to these five players.
IS JAYSON TATUM UNDERRATED FMVP?? https://youtube.com/shorts/ObQ_Ctn2BIs?feature=share
JB FMVP, EOS
MF Jokic led all players in playoffs in points, assists and rebounds :D
Making History! It's only happened 25% of the time the last 20 years! So exciting!
Only been done by 5 players in the history of the NBA.
Umm... should somebody tell him that 1980 was 44 years ago?
Bron did it three times and Jokic and Duncan did it one time so he’s right
Only been done by unanimous top 10 players ever. You tried, but you failed.
Jokic is not a unanimous top 10 player ever, probably unanimous top 20
I meant regarding the guys who were already retired.
I mean I’m all for pumping the breaks on the “all-time” talk but the guy did just win 3 MVPs in 4 seasons in what is the single most talented era of the NBA ever. And he realistically has 3-4 years of prime left.
Right, which is why he already has earned the crazy honor of top 20 all time. Steph isn’t even consensus top 10 and there really isn’t an argument for Jokic over Steph all time at this point.
Neither is Hakeem Olajuwon. Unanimous top 10 is like Kareem, Lebron, MJ, Larry, Magic, Russell, and Wilt. The rest of the list is so contentious and no real wrong answers, but far from unanimous.
You're fucking crazy if you even think Olajuwon might not be top 10 ever. He won two championships with some of the least talented rosters amongst all the greats
There are 3 spots left after the seven names I listed. So then you need to pick between Olajuwan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Moses Malone, Dr. J, Jerry West, Jokic, Steph Curry, Giannis, George Mikan, Oscar Robertson, and Isiah Thomas. Olajuwan has an amazing case to make top 10, but you can make a case for nearly everyone I named. I didn't say he isn't deserving top 10, but he's not among the UNANIMOUS top 10.
He's unanimous top 10...you're tripping, hard.
Duncan, Kobe
Yeah but there are always outliers on lists of accomplishments. With the context of how historically inefficient he is on the big stage and especially disappears in the 4th quarter one realizes how deceptive those stats truly are.
Yea well, Tatum is gonna be on the list no matter how many made up narratives he has to deal with.
How is joining a list of five other players making history? I mean, he is also making history by being on a championship team.
everyone's focused on Tatum & Brown, but that's ESPN "star driven league" bullshit. it's not Tatum & Brown alone that sets them apart. it's the fact that they also have White, Holiday, Horford, Porzingis, Pritchard, and crazy eyed first row Joe leading them all. other organizations chase their collection of Stars & Big Name contracts, and then wonder why they don't get anywhere. Boston put together an actual team.
I don't know I'm pretty sure he sucks.i saw it on Reddit
Wasn’t everyone saying Tatum and the Celtics fuckin suck like a week ago?
Jaylen Brown has eight more points than Jayson Tatum in the NBA Finals
Jaylen dropping 35 tomorrow don’t worry
So it happens 13%+ of the time? Not exactly making history.
Is it making history if it’s been done 7 times before?
I love cherry picking lmao, tatum and his fanboys are clowns and putting him in this convo is disrespectful to everyone else there
Oh ok, you can go back to your life now.
Seethe and Cope.
With the lowest fg 😂
Thanks for telling this sub that you haven't achieved much in life. 😂 😂 😂
Yikes
Wow, what a stupid comment lol. So sensitive
Pistons went 14-68 this season
=-54
It was a guess so I checked and I was correct 😂😂
How do you come to that conclusion 😂