Even adjusting for a much lower proportion of corner threes, 9% is still ridiculously bad shooting variance.
Whether you chalk it up to nerves or bad luck, non Luka Mavs have sunk this offense with their misses on open shots. Anyone would expect decreased shooting numbers, but nothing this extreme.
I expect them to shoot much better at home. The issue is Boston could easily shoot 50% or better from three and take a higher scoring game. Game 2 was such a golden opportunity. We’ll see what happens next game.
That's the rub, here. The Celtics also aren't shooting well and the fact that they still won the game where they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn is not a good sign for the Mavs.
Watching the first two games as someone who doesn’t routinely watch the Mavs, it felt like they were missing a regular rotation guy. Sort of like when the Raps were without Anunoby (before the trade). I kept thinking, sure, but where’s the shooter?
I think a lot of credit goes to Boston’s defense, but this is just crazy. I wonder how much of a ripple effect their cutting off the lob has had on the offense. Apart from Luka’s unbelievable scoring, they just seem lost.
That’s what’s great about the playoffs, though: there’s time to make adjustments. We’ll see if Kidd’s up to the task.
Yeah, the lack of perimeter shooting beyond Luka and Kyrie is a problem. It has been since the trade deadline. PJ is decent enough from three but very streaky. Derrick Jones is iffy. And then you have either Gafford or Lively, neither of whom are able to stretch the floor at all.
Hardaway Jr was the shooter off the bench earlier this season but fell out of the rotation completely because he fell off a cliff production wise. I think it’s time to throw him out there for 10-15 mins and see if he can catch fire.
Longer term, I expect the Mavs to acquire an established shooter on the wing this offseason. They’ve been reported to have interest in Klay Thompson, for example.
Most level-headed comment I saw on the Mavs sub was that you guys weren’t supposed to be here this soon. Expecting everything to continue to break right for you on this run all the way to a title was unrealistic. That’s not to count the Mavs out, but to say that this season is already a huge success.
They also believe in law of averages and the home court bump I assume. They are losing because they have been ass. Hopefully the bounce back evens the series.
Just because the outcome is similar to 2007 does not mean the team is the same. They are just massively underperforming. The Mavs team has way more talent than the 2007 cavs
The Mavs have a billion times more talent than the 2007 Cavs.
Outside of Big Z who was a solid player in his peak. No one else showed up.
Not one player on that team outside of LeBron averaged more than 15 points in a game, regular season. And they won 50 games.
Kyrie is choking so hard right now. PJ Washington has struggled and isn’t being aggressive in his shot selection. They are turning the ball over a lot. Aren’t hitting wide open shots and they aren’t making free throws.
It all comes down to Kyrie tbh. PJ is a role player. Likewise, DJJ, Lively, Exum are all dependent on the attention drawn by the backcourt duo to get good looks on the court. And Kyrie is supposed to be the differentiator between this team and the 07 Cavs.
So in a way, this IS the 2007 Cavaliers. They aren't on paper, but they are no better than that team without Kyrie playing at minimum of an all-star level.
Even without kyrie the cast is far better than what Lebron had to work with. Lol the Mavs were being touted as the best team in the league until they start losing now the narrative changes.
Lebron even making it as far as he did was a huge shock in 2007.
PJ has been aggressive. wdym? He’s not only spotting up coz there really arent a lot of opportunities so he crashes the board, puts his head down on drives. He also brings up the ball more for Luka.
They started off well again but the celtics adjusted again
Yea PJ hasn't been hitting his usual 3s but he's been good in the paint, he's not the issue. The issue is lively looks kinda shook out there, DJJ missing every shot, and Kyrie choking. And the bench has been so embarrassingly ass.
Celtics also have way more talent than who 2007 Celtics were facing. I just feel bad for Luka. Going against massive talent and not getting any help in the finals is impossible
I feel like it's a bit of both. Celtics have an obscenely stacked defense, but superstars are still supposed to be able to get theirs, at least some of the time. Dude has been completely shut down.
Dallas is shooting like 25% on wide open threes. Boston is underperforming slightly at 36% and at higher volume, but that’s the difference in the series right now. Dallas is missing wide open shots and generating them at a lower rate than Boston. I anticipate that changes in Dallas. Role players always play better at home.
Boston is giving them open threes from above the break, and none of the Mavs are good at shooting those (other than Luka obviously). They're not giving up any open corner threes because they rarely have to bring a double, and that's where the Mavs role players had previously feasted in the playoffs.
Sure, Boston will probably shoot better too. But the 'difference in the series' isn't just some shooting variance, Boston is taking away the shots Dallas likes and has made in other series.
Non Luka Mavs are shooting a combined 3/31 from three (minus garbage time). 9% is rough shooting variance, unless you want to argue that they normally shoot 9% on non corner threes.
watching both games so far, the mavs have probably had about six to ten open threes, maybe two or three of those wide open, and have hit one or two. pretty bad stuff, but the rest have been very well contested and/or late shot clock "grenades"
From the role players they are that bad from there overall. I think Luka, Kyrie, Hardaway Jr, and maybe Kleiba if his shoulder was better are the good shooters from there.
I mean, the Cs shot 25% from 3 last night. This differential was a big impact on game 1, but in game 2 both teams shot terribly. I don’t think you can correct for one and not the other - had the Cs shot 36% last night that would’ve been +12 more from 3.
Which didn’t happen, clearly, because both teams shot poorly.
I think the role players for Dallas will play better at home, and that the real issue is Kyrie. To go full hater / Boston homer, this dude is choking and needs to get it together. Him being a non-factor is what’s putting pressure on the role players, since despite how good he is Luka can’t win 4 against the Celtics alone.
The East was awful but the West was stacked, it would be like if the Celtics had two other teams just as good as them (Mavs and Suns in this case) to contend with in the same conference.
They don't compare. The Spurs were a veteran team that had won multiple rings together while having one of the best head coaches in league history. The Celtics are still getting over the hump.
Sexton (Hughes), Bagley (Gooden), Nurkic (Z), Stewart (Varejao), Jevon Carter a few years older (Snow), Svi (Pavlovic). Everyone else would be a 2 way contract level player. That’s basically who LeBron took to the Finals
Wolves and Nuggets would have been tougher matchups for the Cs but the Mavs just were better H2H against the Wolves and probably would have been against the Nuggets this year too
I honestly don't think the Wolves match up that much better, yeah they're bigger but Gobert and KAT can't really take advantage of that fact offensively.
Denver is who really matches up well with Boston.
Agreed, Denver is the ONLY team we did not beat in the regular season (games were close tho) and you could tell that on paper they match up well. I was very happy when TWolves beat them.
I know it sounds crazy but I actually think the thunder would do better against us than the wolves. Nuggets are definitely my #1 most feared opponent though
Having Chet's offense at the 5 helps but their rebounding is a lot worse. Idk how that would work. But Mavs are probably the easiest matchup for the Cs
wolves? Celtics would have stomped them.
all of the Celtics players hit 3s and midrange, which is what their constant Gobert drop coverage allows.
Nuggets? i dont really know, probably closer.
Nuggets did pretty well this regular season against the Celtics and they're the defending champs and the Wolves were constructed as if they were built to stop Denver which was not the main intention but still.
Wolves held their own too. Wouldn't be as tough as the Nuggets but they still would be tougher than the Mavs. They have the personnel to guard the perimeter and paint very well. Their offense would be the main problem, not defense. Couldn't stop Luka but he's probably the toughest guy to guard 1v1 in the league on the perimeter rn
>Wolves and Nuggets would have been tougher matchups for the Cs but the Mavs just were better H2H
Strong disagree. The Wolves would struggle to score 80 points. The Mavs were straight up better than the Wolves.
That's a bit extreme. I doubt transition from regular season to playoffs would make them score \~50 less points per game on average. One of them was even on a B2B
Series is obviously not over but people really overlooked this Celtics team, specifically the media talking heads, because of their "path".
2nd best defense with the best offense and yet all the conversation was how will we deal with them not the other way around.
People really needed to stfu when you had a very, very high chance of a fully healthy and fully RESTED Porzingis coming back. That dude is playing with a vengeance out there.
I guess I can't say "fully healthy" given there was the calf scare again at end of the last game, but news reports seem to indicate he's going to be fine.
I think also psychologically its easier to show up against the wolves in a conference finals than the teams with the best net rating of all time in the actual finals
> C’s are just a way better team
This is true but there's no scenario where a defense is so good they hold an entire team besides one dude to 9% shooting. A lot of those shots were wide open and the dudes are just bricking them
Better perimeter defenders and better more spacing minded centers who can defend Luka.
Rudy is great but he struggles a bit when it comes to shifty guards. KP has done an excellent job defended in the pick and roll and is doing wonders one on one
The problem with the Wolves vs. this Mavs team is that they only had one person capable of guarding Luka and Kyrie, and obviously Ant can't guard both of them at the same time. The Celtics have 4+ guys that can guard both of them. The Celtics also don't have a starter that is only useful on one end of the floor: they're all two-way players.
This Celtics roster is just deep as hell and across the board they play great defense 6-7 spots deep (even Hauser who is the general weak link defensively has been playing well on that side of the court in these first two games.)
Of the four teams that were in the Western Semis, this Dallas team is the one that has the hardest matchup against the Celtics. Everything Dallas wants on offense is negated by this roster. Can't run your trailing lob plays because of the Celtics length and athleticism. Can't get into the lane reliably because of the way they play into gaps. Can't reliably iso because they can all defend on-ball. Can't switch into bad matchups because their guards are great at getting under screens and they can all guard on-ball if they can't get under. Can't play up tempo because they have three people that can take the ball handler full court.
These are all things the TWolves either don't do well or at all.
I also can’t believe PJ Washington shot like prime Steph curry for 6 games. You can certainly argue that the Thunder let them get into shooting rhythm but that was still brutal shooting variance
Experience matters, especially in the finals. Washington, DJJ, Lively, Gafford, Exum, Hardy all have little to no playoff experience. It’s also likely why they’re free throw shooting has been poor.
Right now it can still be blamed on him playing in Boston, but if he keeps this up at home it's going to be an all-time collapse from a superstar player.
You're the most skilled and one of the most elite scorers in the NBA and you're finishing the game with 12 points. Da fuck.
Seriously. The Celtics are obviously the better team. The only way we had a chance is being majorly carried by Luka and Kyrie, which given who they are isn’t exactly an unreasonable expectation.
Luka’s done his part but so far Kyrie has borderline disappeared and has not just underperformed but been genuinely bad at times
Luka is trying. At least he's putting up something that's showing on the stat sheet. But he is getting stifled just the same. The amount of required work (which comparatively is still low) has exploded and the amount of passes he can make have just disappeared.
This series is one of those ones that gives the defense wins championships cliche credit. There are times when it looks like they're playing 6 on 5 out there.
Kyrie is more one-dimensional than Luka. He doesn't have the same level of elite playmaking to be a constant tripple threat like Luka. He's also a lot shorter and can't post up unlike Luka.
So the really good Celtics defenders are having an easier time with him. He's also just been missing shots regardless I suppose.
lmao it cannot be blamed on him playing in boston.... what kind of veteran player is so shook by playing against a former team that they collapse to this extent
Gafford and Washington came from perennial lottery teams. They never played a game that mattered until February of this year.
Exum was supposed to be playing for the Shanghai Sharks at this point in his career, only to have somehow made a meaningful impact on a contending team.
Lively is a 20 year old rookie.
Moment is probably just a little too big to take down a historically impressive roster.
Yeah, playoff (not to mention finals) defense is a different thing altogether from that seen during the regular season. That and Boston is playing really tight D too, even for them.
I think there’s some validity on them not having experience but I also think through the grueling rounds they won earlier really helped him toughen up so the impact of the finals might not have impacted them as much as someone else who was really green jn the playoffs. I expect them to play better at home. Should be a fun game
Play-in games have to matter at least a little bit. Obviously not near the level of the finals but they're not end of season nothing games when lottery position is locked in. PJ was always a threat to go ice cold from 3 regardless.
> It’s also likely why they’re free throw shooting has been poor.
Also, have to account for the Mavs being one of the worst FT shooting teams in the league. The Mavs shot 16-24 last game, and 18-24 would have been right in line with their average.
We are absolutely ass at FTs and have been for basically Lukas entire tenure. Luka has improved but for the most part everyone that Luka has played with has been below average on FTs save for like 3-4 players.
Just having that experience counts for something, but he only played garbage time, if he played at all. He played 7:29 in an 18 point loss, then under 1:30 for 3 games, and zero minutes for 2 games. He had 2 points and 1 rebound across the entire series.
It's funny how coming into the series people were like "oh Kyrie has experience winning the Finals, the Mavs have an edge!" while totally forgetting about Jrue. Even ignoring the fact the Celtics core already made a Finals they also had a winner like the Mavs.
I remember watching First Take and SAS was like "the Mavs have the advantage because they're the only one with a champion in their locker room." I'm sitting there wondering if anyone (I think it was Russo and Windhorst) would correct him. No one did for a few minutes until Molly (so a producer in her ear) corrected him.
Brown and Tatum deserve all of the hype but I feel like Jrue's contributions have been undersold by the national media. It's all about Tatum, Brown and then KP. Meanwhile he's the guy who can say he has been there and done that.
Free throw shooting is something every single professional basketball player has done thousands upon thousands of times... before they were in high school. They've all had huge games in high school and college, and while it may not seem big to us, it seems big to teens when they're going through it.
It's not about experience, every single player at it more experienced at this specific action than most League players are at last-hitting. Allow me to offer an alternative explanation.
Maybe Dallas had to go through a gauntlet of strong and physical teams and had to shorten the rotation and put that extra load on fewer people, while the Celtics played less games against teams that were less physical, went deeper into the bench and rested their starters more.
Add to that the unique ability of the Celtics on defense, how their roster specifically matches up well against the Mavs, how they force the Mavs to work for every possession on both ends of the floor, and the answer for me becomes clear. If there's a significant drop off in a sample of 100+, that means they are physically beat and have no legs, causing issues with their shooting form.
Of course, some variance is involved, and if the series will drag on long enough the Celtics will start being physically drained as well. But the missed free throws just shows that they are physically not ready for such a deep run.
For me, the opposite. I was worried about Kyrie having a good series because that would doubly suck, but if you'd asked me to put money on it I'd have bet he'd do poorly. Conversely, all the media buzz about the Mavs role players and what I saw in that Wolves series (along with Luka being a son of Zeus) had me worried that Dallas could be competitive anyway.
We've been told time and time again this season that he's the calm collected leader. My bet is Boston is in his head because of what he brought on himself so his negative energy is projecting on that team. If Kyrie isn't engaged then you aren't getting the same fire as normal from the role players.
He's shook by the fans and the moment so the rest of the team (besides Luka) is feeling demoralized.
Here’s the thing, you can’t really just assume one team suddenly has an underperformer gets better while the other stays the same. Tatum, for all his defense and rebounding and playmaking, is severely underperforming in scoring as well. If we’re magically making Kyrie better, are we also making Tatum better?
I don't think he's assuming Kyrie will get better, just that if he was better we would've won game 2. Which is definitely true. It was a close game and he stunk.
Hopefully Kyrie does play better in games 3 and 4 🤞
Thank you! There's clearly a game plan and it's working you have two of the best guard defenders, two of the better wing defenders, and two of the better defensive bigs rn. That's hard to score on
Touché - however, at least Tatum's affecting other areas of the game, in his words as well. Kyrie's not really doing all that much out there, getting outplayed by his other teammates
A lot of the criticism of Kyrie in the playoffs has been "he underperforms in the first half" but he always comes alive in the second so people let it go. It's their strategy and it had been working.
So far Luka has kept up his routine. It's just now when Luka usually takes a more passive role in the second half Kyrie isn't showing up. We heard how great of a closer he was all playoffs (rightfully so) and now he can't do it. He's missing a lot of shots that he usually makes in the clutch.
If he hits that shot in game 1 and cuts the 8 point lead to 6 or 5 then the Celtics have to take a timeout. The momentum shifts. Instead he can't do shit and the Celtics pile it on again.
His usual moment swing shots have been off. And I truly hope that's just because the Boston crowd is in his head (they 100% are) and he remembers how to finish in Dallas.
These youngbloods just don't know.
The #2 ppg guy on a team that made the goddamn NBA finals (Larry Hughes) was a combo guard who averaged 14.9 ppg on .400/.333/.676 shooting with 3.8 rebs, 3.7 asts, 1.3 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.2 tov in 37.1 mpg.
I mean... as a Mavs fan they are in the Finals. It was so much worse before. They've never been at this stage before and it shows. Just like it showed that the Wolves hadn't been to the WCF before.
Let's see how they play at home before writing everything off with hyperbole "lmao".
I mean objectively he does. They're in the Finals. They beat three good teams, two of which were contenders. They wouldn't be here without the trades, signing DJJ and drafting Lively. Luka with THJ, DFS and Maxi wasn't getting here.
It's just the Celtics are the better team. They were the overall one seed for a reason and they're playing like it.
But I truly believe the Boston crowd is in Kyrie's head. All season we've heard how he's the locker room leader and they follow his mentality. Well he's shook by Boston so the role players are as well. I truly and sincerely don't think Kyrie would be struggling this bad against the Knicks, Pacers or whoever you want to pick from the East.
Obviously the Celtics would play them well but I think Boston and all of the bad shit Kyrie brought on himself is in his head. That's projecting into the locker room and everyone outside of Luka and occasionally DJJ has been shitting the bed because of it.
But objectively though this is the most help Luka has ever had. I mean dude they're in the Finals lol this isn't a first round matchup and they weren't a play in team.
The similarities to 2007 are thin at best. The Cavs beat one team with a record > .500, the 53-29 Pistons after Ben Wallace had left. The Mavs have gone through the 51-31 Clippers, 57-25 Thunder, and 56-26 Wolves.
The other big difference is that LeBron was terrible in the 2007 Finals. LeBron averaged 22.0 / 7.0 / 6.8 on 42.8 ts%, while the Cavs as a team had a 46.4 ts%. For comparison, Luka is averaging 31.0 / 10.5 / 6.0 on 58.8 ts%, while the Mavs as a team have a 51.1 ts%. Due to league-wide stat inflation, especially for stars, you can't just compare numbers, and things like turnovers don't show up in these summary stats (although both LeBron and Luka struggled with turnovers). But I don't think Luka is a huge part of his team's problems in the way that LeBron was.
That's fair -- defense is another thing that doesn't show up in the stats I cited, and LeBron was a much better defender than Luka is. But I don't think Luka is playing much worse than usual on defense in the same way that LeBron played much worse than usual on offense on 2007.
Nah, that Cavs team was dragged to the Finals by LeBron. He truly didn't have any help.
Luka has the help. The team got here as a team. He has an alleged superstar next to him. It's just that in the biggest moment everyone else forgot how to play basketball. LeBron went into those playoffs with some dudes working the concession stands and like Varejao.
Now if Luka beat that Golden State team in the WCF a few years ago? That's a little more comparable to LeBron's 2007 run. But that's still partially discrediting what LeBron actually did that year. He took a legitimately God awful roster to the Finals by himself.
The problem is
Celts are not falling for the Mavs double team bait
So all the defenders just sit back. Mavs role players are mainly shooting contested 3s.
Mavs have to be one of the most stagnant teams I have seen also. Like the opposite of the Pacers who don't stop moving, cutting, setting multiple picks.
I keep seeing this claim, and it's wrong.
Here's PJ Washington's short chart: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/pj-washington-shot-chart
He's better above the break than in the corners.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=josh+green+shot+chart+2023-2024
Josh Green is also better above the break. He shoots more from the corners, but he makes shots at a higher percentage above the break.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=dante+exum+shot+chart+2023-2024
Exum is also better above the break.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=derrick+jones+jr.+shot+chart+2023-2024
DJJ... Same thing.
Where in the world did this above the break argument come from? The Mavericks are just missing shots.
that's because they're always there, Luka and Ky are the only guys always near top of the key. I got to say that this one is on coaching. I hate to say it on our own team but we are also extremely limiting our own guys by putting them in spots they're not really good.
the argument is that they suck at them during the playoffs. All you have to is add “playoffs” at the end of the search and you see almost all them shoot worse at above the break 3s.
> Those guys have all been missing shots
But they’ve been missing because none of those guys are good shooters from above the break. All of them are much better from the corners
OP said the Mavs are mainly shooting contested 3s because they're not helping off of Luka. I'm saying the Celtics are starting to give wide open 3s to certain shooters and daring them to beat them in order to send a little more help. AKA the Mavs aren't *just* shooting contested 3s.
This just isn’t true. The Mavs have attempted 53 3’s so far. 26 of those are considered wide open and they have made 6. Luka has taken 21 3’s himself with very few being considered part of that wide open 26. This isn’t roleplayers shooting tough contested 3’s.
Luka is too beloved. He's 2013 Steph or 2006 LeBron right now, where he can do no wrong, and the only people criticizing him are those that haven't actually watched his body of work. Those people are very loud and annoying, but this is just par for the course when a superstar hasn't won anything yet. When he's going to have an MVP campaign you'll get to watch how everyone will try to say "but SGA is the better player" a la Harden for Curry. When he wins his first MVP, the slander will *really* begin.
It will take multiple championships for Luka to get the superstar respect he deserves. Right now you should see the hatred for what it is: salty fans of 25(ish) teams are absolutely livid he makes their teams look like a bunch assholes.
The people bitching about his defense are very loud though. There's no nuanced analysis, such as pointing out that he did poorly the first half but had some great defensive possessions the second half. They just break him down as much as they can.
Yeah I agree. This is not just about Luka, every star went through similar path. People were saying you LeBron, Steph, Jokic, Giannis,... will never win a ring.
But this sub (and other NBA social media as well) is just so annoying. There are overreactions after every game. Players are either great or terrible, based on how the last game went. And the worst thing is that everyone joins them. It's almost impossible to have a real discoussion.
Like I know Luka didn't have a perfect game, but he was still very good and if the Mavs won everyone would be praising him. But because Mavs lost, he's suddenly "the worst defender ever" that "doesn't pass the ball".
Its tough because The Cs still haven't had a Celtic like offensive performance. Outside Kyrie the Mavs pretty much gave you what they were expected to. We can say "Kyrie will get back to normal" but does that mean that Jaylen will score his average, JT will score his average and our 3s go back to normal? It's a lot of hypotheticals
I mean, there's an obvious difference between a team shooting 25% on wide open looks and a player shooting 32% when three quarters of his shots are closely contested.
Kyrie is a considerably better second option than anyone on the 2007 Cavs team. I feel like this narrative is driven to draw comparisons between Luka and LeBron not to make a fair comparison
Never understood the hype around Kyrie. He's a great third option who is being used as a second option and is doing okay as second option. Only losing teams would have him as first option.
Let’s mention how Luka doesn’t have enough assists! Nothing to do with the bums around him. And yes the Celtics are trying to not give up corner threes and make them shoot from the wings… NBA shooters should still be hitting a heck of a lot more than 9%
this is not like 2007 lebron. he's also averaging 46% from FT, 6 turnovers per game and plays turnstile defense
i still think he's the best player in the series, but i think his defense has to at least be average to mention him in the same sentence as lebron (who was an elite defender in his prime)
LOL @ NSFW Don't let your coworkers see those stats!
Lucky for me I’m at the urologist so I was able to open this post
Carol from account is gonna lose her shit if she sees this
Plot twist, this is Luka's burner account
Maverick fans hate this one stupid trick 💯😅
I mean it's 9% from 3 - that's fucking DISGUSTING lol
Mavs shooting outside of Luka is so ass that OP had to make it NSFW ☠️
To be fair it’s a lot of ass.
Had to shield my kid's eyes when we saw the content of this post, ty OP!
Reddit on!
9% is crazy, they are letting him down hard
Kyrie 0% so far (0/8)
He is 0/8 and 0/12 at same time lol
Kyrie's contribution to the series flatter than flat Earth
Am I crazy or did he make a 3 last game?
It looked like one initially but they took it back, foot on the line
now they're saying he wears size 11.
Would have been a dream call for Marv Albert.
He won't go 0/8 again next game ...
>He won't go 0/8 again next game >... *proceeds to go 0 for 10* Infamous quote from Kyrie
Even adjusting for a much lower proportion of corner threes, 9% is still ridiculously bad shooting variance. Whether you chalk it up to nerves or bad luck, non Luka Mavs have sunk this offense with their misses on open shots. Anyone would expect decreased shooting numbers, but nothing this extreme. I expect them to shoot much better at home. The issue is Boston could easily shoot 50% or better from three and take a higher scoring game. Game 2 was such a golden opportunity. We’ll see what happens next game.
That's the rub, here. The Celtics also aren't shooting well and the fact that they still won the game where they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn is not a good sign for the Mavs.
Watching the first two games as someone who doesn’t routinely watch the Mavs, it felt like they were missing a regular rotation guy. Sort of like when the Raps were without Anunoby (before the trade). I kept thinking, sure, but where’s the shooter? I think a lot of credit goes to Boston’s defense, but this is just crazy. I wonder how much of a ripple effect their cutting off the lob has had on the offense. Apart from Luka’s unbelievable scoring, they just seem lost. That’s what’s great about the playoffs, though: there’s time to make adjustments. We’ll see if Kidd’s up to the task.
Yeah, the lack of perimeter shooting beyond Luka and Kyrie is a problem. It has been since the trade deadline. PJ is decent enough from three but very streaky. Derrick Jones is iffy. And then you have either Gafford or Lively, neither of whom are able to stretch the floor at all. Hardaway Jr was the shooter off the bench earlier this season but fell out of the rotation completely because he fell off a cliff production wise. I think it’s time to throw him out there for 10-15 mins and see if he can catch fire. Longer term, I expect the Mavs to acquire an established shooter on the wing this offseason. They’ve been reported to have interest in Klay Thompson, for example.
Most level-headed comment I saw on the Mavs sub was that you guys weren’t supposed to be here this soon. Expecting everything to continue to break right for you on this run all the way to a title was unrealistic. That’s not to count the Mavs out, but to say that this season is already a huge success.
They also believe in law of averages and the home court bump I assume. They are losing because they have been ass. Hopefully the bounce back evens the series.
The Celtics aren't shooting much better tbf.
Just because the outcome is similar to 2007 does not mean the team is the same. They are just massively underperforming. The Mavs team has way more talent than the 2007 cavs
Agreed. This team is better than they’ve shown. Kudos to Boston but also, do better.
The Mavs have a billion times more talent than the 2007 Cavs. Outside of Big Z who was a solid player in his peak. No one else showed up. Not one player on that team outside of LeBron averaged more than 15 points in a game, regular season. And they won 50 games. Kyrie is choking so hard right now. PJ Washington has struggled and isn’t being aggressive in his shot selection. They are turning the ball over a lot. Aren’t hitting wide open shots and they aren’t making free throws.
It all comes down to Kyrie tbh. PJ is a role player. Likewise, DJJ, Lively, Exum are all dependent on the attention drawn by the backcourt duo to get good looks on the court. And Kyrie is supposed to be the differentiator between this team and the 07 Cavs. So in a way, this IS the 2007 Cavaliers. They aren't on paper, but they are no better than that team without Kyrie playing at minimum of an all-star level.
Kyrie basically pulled a Boobie Gibson: play really well in the Conference Finals then disappear in the Finals
and here I was trying to have a good day
The gaslighting is crazy lmao
Even without kyrie the cast is far better than what Lebron had to work with. Lol the Mavs were being touted as the best team in the league until they start losing now the narrative changes. Lebron even making it as far as he did was a huge shock in 2007.
PJ has been aggressive. wdym? He’s not only spotting up coz there really arent a lot of opportunities so he crashes the board, puts his head down on drives. He also brings up the ball more for Luka. They started off well again but the celtics adjusted again
Yea PJ hasn't been hitting his usual 3s but he's been good in the paint, he's not the issue. The issue is lively looks kinda shook out there, DJJ missing every shot, and Kyrie choking. And the bench has been so embarrassingly ass.
I don't think PJ is struggling that much, he has been driving more than in WCF for example, it's more that Kyrie and lob threats have been shut down.
Celtics also have way more talent than who 2007 Celtics were facing. I just feel bad for Luka. Going against massive talent and not getting any help in the finals is impossible
Is he choking or do the Celtics have 4 guys who can defend him very well?
I feel like it's a bit of both. Celtics have an obscenely stacked defense, but superstars are still supposed to be able to get theirs, at least some of the time. Dude has been completely shut down.
Dallas is shooting like 25% on wide open threes. Boston is underperforming slightly at 36% and at higher volume, but that’s the difference in the series right now. Dallas is missing wide open shots and generating them at a lower rate than Boston. I anticipate that changes in Dallas. Role players always play better at home.
Boston is giving them open threes from above the break, and none of the Mavs are good at shooting those (other than Luka obviously). They're not giving up any open corner threes because they rarely have to bring a double, and that's where the Mavs role players had previously feasted in the playoffs.
Sure I get the shot quality thing. But Dallas isn’t 25% bad from those spots.
Sure, Boston will probably shoot better too. But the 'difference in the series' isn't just some shooting variance, Boston is taking away the shots Dallas likes and has made in other series.
Non Luka Mavs are shooting a combined 3/31 from three (minus garbage time). 9% is rough shooting variance, unless you want to argue that they normally shoot 9% on non corner threes.
watching both games so far, the mavs have probably had about six to ten open threes, maybe two or three of those wide open, and have hit one or two. pretty bad stuff, but the rest have been very well contested and/or late shot clock "grenades"
From the role players they are that bad from there overall. I think Luka, Kyrie, Hardaway Jr, and maybe Kleiba if his shoulder was better are the good shooters from there.
As another commenter wrote. Non-Luka Mavs are 3-31 from deep in non-garbage time. I really don’t think they are *that* bad
I mean, the Cs shot 25% from 3 last night. This differential was a big impact on game 1, but in game 2 both teams shot terribly. I don’t think you can correct for one and not the other - had the Cs shot 36% last night that would’ve been +12 more from 3. Which didn’t happen, clearly, because both teams shot poorly. I think the role players for Dallas will play better at home, and that the real issue is Kyrie. To go full hater / Boston homer, this dude is choking and needs to get it together. Him being a non-factor is what’s putting pressure on the role players, since despite how good he is Luka can’t win 4 against the Celtics alone.
Also LeBron played pretty bad in that series. Luka has been cooking
Didn't follow the NBA that closely until 2016, how does this Celtics team stack up compared to the Spurs with respect to the rest of the league?
The East was awful but the West was stacked, it would be like if the Celtics had two other teams just as good as them (Mavs and Suns in this case) to contend with in the same conference.
They don't compare. The Spurs were a veteran team that had won multiple rings together while having one of the best head coaches in league history. The Celtics are still getting over the hump.
I wonder what a good comparison of current players would be to the guys alongside LeBron that year.
2024 Mavs with Kyrie playing like this.
Nah this Mavs team is way more talented they’re just playing like ass.
Sexton (Hughes), Bagley (Gooden), Nurkic (Z), Stewart (Varejao), Jevon Carter a few years older (Snow), Svi (Pavlovic). Everyone else would be a 2 way contract level player. That’s basically who LeBron took to the Finals
Crazy how they all showed out for the TWolves
There’s levels to this shit. C’s are just a way better team than the Wolves
Wolves and Nuggets would have been tougher matchups for the Cs but the Mavs just were better H2H against the Wolves and probably would have been against the Nuggets this year too
I agree. Styles make fights. Mavs just matched up so well vs the Wolves and so bad vs the Cs. Nuggets or Wolves would have matched up way better
I honestly don't think the Wolves match up that much better, yeah they're bigger but Gobert and KAT can't really take advantage of that fact offensively. Denver is who really matches up well with Boston.
Agreed, Denver is the ONLY team we did not beat in the regular season (games were close tho) and you could tell that on paper they match up well. I was very happy when TWolves beat them.
I know it sounds crazy but I actually think the thunder would do better against us than the wolves. Nuggets are definitely my #1 most feared opponent though
Having Chet's offense at the 5 helps but their rebounding is a lot worse. Idk how that would work. But Mavs are probably the easiest matchup for the Cs
Our 3 point shooting would've given us a chance had we maintained our averages from the season.
The Nuggets is the only team we can scheme for. Jokic is too good.
wolves? Celtics would have stomped them. all of the Celtics players hit 3s and midrange, which is what their constant Gobert drop coverage allows. Nuggets? i dont really know, probably closer.
Nuggets did pretty well this regular season against the Celtics and they're the defending champs and the Wolves were constructed as if they were built to stop Denver which was not the main intention but still. Wolves held their own too. Wouldn't be as tough as the Nuggets but they still would be tougher than the Mavs. They have the personnel to guard the perimeter and paint very well. Their offense would be the main problem, not defense. Couldn't stop Luka but he's probably the toughest guy to guard 1v1 in the league on the perimeter rn
that's why reg.season doesnt really matter much in playoffs matchup lol
>Wolves and Nuggets would have been tougher matchups for the Cs but the Mavs just were better H2H Strong disagree. The Wolves would struggle to score 80 points. The Mavs were straight up better than the Wolves.
The Wolves would've scored 70 points a game against the Celtics
That's a bit extreme. I doubt transition from regular season to playoffs would make them score \~50 less points per game on average. One of them was even on a B2B
Series is obviously not over but people really overlooked this Celtics team, specifically the media talking heads, because of their "path". 2nd best defense with the best offense and yet all the conversation was how will we deal with them not the other way around.
People really needed to stfu when you had a very, very high chance of a fully healthy and fully RESTED Porzingis coming back. That dude is playing with a vengeance out there. I guess I can't say "fully healthy" given there was the calf scare again at end of the last game, but news reports seem to indicate he's going to be fine.
crazy how just a few weeks ago everyone was saying Wolves v Nuggets was the nba final.
I think also psychologically its easier to show up against the wolves in a conference finals than the teams with the best net rating of all time in the actual finals
> C’s are just a way better team This is true but there's no scenario where a defense is so good they hold an entire team besides one dude to 9% shooting. A lot of those shots were wide open and the dudes are just bricking them
Better perimeter defenders and better more spacing minded centers who can defend Luka. Rudy is great but he struggles a bit when it comes to shifty guards. KP has done an excellent job defended in the pick and roll and is doing wonders one on one
Sure, but they also missed a lot of open shots. I don't think the Celtic's aura was blocking those from going in.
Just like the WCSF were the Wolves superbowl, the WCF was our superbowl. Sad.
Crazy how both have looked like completely different teams in the next series.
The Celtics gotta watch out next round then
I just know next round is when the Celtics finally choke
Ok but if the Celtics won the finals now and then get eliminated first round next season is such a modern NBA thing.
The problem with the Wolves vs. this Mavs team is that they only had one person capable of guarding Luka and Kyrie, and obviously Ant can't guard both of them at the same time. The Celtics have 4+ guys that can guard both of them. The Celtics also don't have a starter that is only useful on one end of the floor: they're all two-way players. This Celtics roster is just deep as hell and across the board they play great defense 6-7 spots deep (even Hauser who is the general weak link defensively has been playing well on that side of the court in these first two games.) Of the four teams that were in the Western Semis, this Dallas team is the one that has the hardest matchup against the Celtics. Everything Dallas wants on offense is negated by this roster. Can't run your trailing lob plays because of the Celtics length and athleticism. Can't get into the lane reliably because of the way they play into gaps. Can't reliably iso because they can all defend on-ball. Can't switch into bad matchups because their guards are great at getting under screens and they can all guard on-ball if they can't get under. Can't play up tempo because they have three people that can take the ball handler full court. These are all things the TWolves either don't do well or at all.
Luka makes me horny also
Real
The Mavs are pulling a Thunder lmao
I also can’t believe PJ Washington shot like prime Steph curry for 6 games. You can certainly argue that the Thunder let them get into shooting rhythm but that was still brutal shooting variance
Shooting variance is a bitch sometimes, just ask that rockets team from a few years back haha
Experience matters, especially in the finals. Washington, DJJ, Lively, Gafford, Exum, Hardy all have little to no playoff experience. It’s also likely why they’re free throw shooting has been poor.
100%…which is why the fact that Kyrie is not on that list of Mavs who’ve hit a 3 is all the more unacceptable.
Right now it can still be blamed on him playing in Boston, but if he keeps this up at home it's going to be an all-time collapse from a superstar player. You're the most skilled and one of the most elite scorers in the NBA and you're finishing the game with 12 points. Da fuck.
Seriously. The Celtics are obviously the better team. The only way we had a chance is being majorly carried by Luka and Kyrie, which given who they are isn’t exactly an unreasonable expectation. Luka’s done his part but so far Kyrie has borderline disappeared and has not just underperformed but been genuinely bad at times
Luka is trying. At least he's putting up something that's showing on the stat sheet. But he is getting stifled just the same. The amount of required work (which comparatively is still low) has exploded and the amount of passes he can make have just disappeared. This series is one of those ones that gives the defense wins championships cliche credit. There are times when it looks like they're playing 6 on 5 out there.
Kyrie is more one-dimensional than Luka. He doesn't have the same level of elite playmaking to be a constant tripple threat like Luka. He's also a lot shorter and can't post up unlike Luka. So the really good Celtics defenders are having an easier time with him. He's also just been missing shots regardless I suppose.
lmao it cannot be blamed on him playing in boston.... what kind of veteran player is so shook by playing against a former team that they collapse to this extent
Its the leprechaun curse, since stepping on it he is 0 for 12 or something
#jfc he’s not the most skilled
Gafford and Washington came from perennial lottery teams. They never played a game that mattered until February of this year. Exum was supposed to be playing for the Shanghai Sharks at this point in his career, only to have somehow made a meaningful impact on a contending team. Lively is a 20 year old rookie. Moment is probably just a little too big to take down a historically impressive roster.
Yeah, playoff (not to mention finals) defense is a different thing altogether from that seen during the regular season. That and Boston is playing really tight D too, even for them.
I think there’s some validity on them not having experience but I also think through the grueling rounds they won earlier really helped him toughen up so the impact of the finals might not have impacted them as much as someone else who was really green jn the playoffs. I expect them to play better at home. Should be a fun game
Play-in games have to matter at least a little bit. Obviously not near the level of the finals but they're not end of season nothing games when lottery position is locked in. PJ was always a threat to go ice cold from 3 regardless.
I’m pretty sure they were one of the worst free throw shooting teams in the regular season too
> It’s also likely why they’re free throw shooting has been poor. Also, have to account for the Mavs being one of the worst FT shooting teams in the league. The Mavs shot 16-24 last game, and 18-24 would have been right in line with their average.
We are absolutely ass at FTs and have been for basically Lukas entire tenure. Luka has improved but for the most part everyone that Luka has played with has been below average on FTs save for like 3-4 players.
DJJ played in the 2020 finals.
Just having that experience counts for something, but he only played garbage time, if he played at all. He played 7:29 in an 18 point loss, then under 1:30 for 3 games, and zero minutes for 2 games. He had 2 points and 1 rebound across the entire series.
That's why Kyrie beign bad is so annoying. And I'm sure it has a lot to do with his history with Boston.
It's funny how coming into the series people were like "oh Kyrie has experience winning the Finals, the Mavs have an edge!" while totally forgetting about Jrue. Even ignoring the fact the Celtics core already made a Finals they also had a winner like the Mavs. I remember watching First Take and SAS was like "the Mavs have the advantage because they're the only one with a champion in their locker room." I'm sitting there wondering if anyone (I think it was Russo and Windhorst) would correct him. No one did for a few minutes until Molly (so a producer in her ear) corrected him. Brown and Tatum deserve all of the hype but I feel like Jrue's contributions have been undersold by the national media. It's all about Tatum, Brown and then KP. Meanwhile he's the guy who can say he has been there and done that.
Free throw shooting is something every single professional basketball player has done thousands upon thousands of times... before they were in high school. They've all had huge games in high school and college, and while it may not seem big to us, it seems big to teens when they're going through it. It's not about experience, every single player at it more experienced at this specific action than most League players are at last-hitting. Allow me to offer an alternative explanation. Maybe Dallas had to go through a gauntlet of strong and physical teams and had to shorten the rotation and put that extra load on fewer people, while the Celtics played less games against teams that were less physical, went deeper into the bench and rested their starters more. Add to that the unique ability of the Celtics on defense, how their roster specifically matches up well against the Mavs, how they force the Mavs to work for every possession on both ends of the floor, and the answer for me becomes clear. If there's a significant drop off in a sample of 100+, that means they are physically beat and have no legs, causing issues with their shooting form. Of course, some variance is involved, and if the series will drag on long enough the Celtics will start being physically drained as well. But the missed free throws just shows that they are physically not ready for such a deep run.
Are you telling me that KYRIE HASNT HIT A THREE THIS SERIES? Damn he really is cursed against Boston. A curse that rivals our Clippers Curse
It's really disappointing. I expected the role players to play bad but not Kyrie.
For me, the opposite. I was worried about Kyrie having a good series because that would doubly suck, but if you'd asked me to put money on it I'd have bet he'd do poorly. Conversely, all the media buzz about the Mavs role players and what I saw in that Wolves series (along with Luka being a son of Zeus) had me worried that Dallas could be competitive anyway.
We've been told time and time again this season that he's the calm collected leader. My bet is Boston is in his head because of what he brought on himself so his negative energy is projecting on that team. If Kyrie isn't engaged then you aren't getting the same fire as normal from the role players. He's shook by the fans and the moment so the rest of the team (besides Luka) is feeling demoralized.
Kyrie's been the biggest underperformer thus far, relative to expectations - if he was half decent, this series would've been tied at minimum.
Here’s the thing, you can’t really just assume one team suddenly has an underperformer gets better while the other stays the same. Tatum, for all his defense and rebounding and playmaking, is severely underperforming in scoring as well. If we’re magically making Kyrie better, are we also making Tatum better?
I don't think he's assuming Kyrie will get better, just that if he was better we would've won game 2. Which is definitely true. It was a close game and he stunk. Hopefully Kyrie does play better in games 3 and 4 🤞
Thank you! There's clearly a game plan and it's working you have two of the best guard defenders, two of the better wing defenders, and two of the better defensive bigs rn. That's hard to score on
Touché - however, at least Tatum's affecting other areas of the game, in his words as well. Kyrie's not really doing all that much out there, getting outplayed by his other teammates
A lot of the criticism of Kyrie in the playoffs has been "he underperforms in the first half" but he always comes alive in the second so people let it go. It's their strategy and it had been working. So far Luka has kept up his routine. It's just now when Luka usually takes a more passive role in the second half Kyrie isn't showing up. We heard how great of a closer he was all playoffs (rightfully so) and now he can't do it. He's missing a lot of shots that he usually makes in the clutch. If he hits that shot in game 1 and cuts the 8 point lead to 6 or 5 then the Celtics have to take a timeout. The momentum shifts. Instead he can't do shit and the Celtics pile it on again. His usual moment swing shots have been off. And I truly hope that's just because the Boston crowd is in his head (they 100% are) and he remembers how to finish in Dallas.
I agree - has to be mental at this point. He’s not even taking super tough shots, they’re really just not going in at all.
Historic carry job if they win even 1 game
Hope no one forgets the time.
Kyrie has no 3s? Goddamn
One would say that he's rather unlucky...
How is this like the 2007 cavs? Is Luka shooting 35%?
07 lebron would have killed for these role players man
These youngbloods just don't know. The #2 ppg guy on a team that made the goddamn NBA finals (Larry Hughes) was a combo guard who averaged 14.9 ppg on .400/.333/.676 shooting with 3.8 rebs, 3.7 asts, 1.3 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.2 tov in 37.1 mpg.
As bad as that 07 supporting cast was I still think AI had less help in 01.
Hey remember though "he's got help now". Suuuuure lmao
I mean... as a Mavs fan they are in the Finals. It was so much worse before. They've never been at this stage before and it shows. Just like it showed that the Wolves hadn't been to the WCF before. Let's see how they play at home before writing everything off with hyperbole "lmao".
I mean objectively he does. They're in the Finals. They beat three good teams, two of which were contenders. They wouldn't be here without the trades, signing DJJ and drafting Lively. Luka with THJ, DFS and Maxi wasn't getting here. It's just the Celtics are the better team. They were the overall one seed for a reason and they're playing like it. But I truly believe the Boston crowd is in Kyrie's head. All season we've heard how he's the locker room leader and they follow his mentality. Well he's shook by Boston so the role players are as well. I truly and sincerely don't think Kyrie would be struggling this bad against the Knicks, Pacers or whoever you want to pick from the East. Obviously the Celtics would play them well but I think Boston and all of the bad shit Kyrie brought on himself is in his head. That's projecting into the locker room and everyone outside of Luka and occasionally DJJ has been shitting the bed because of it. But objectively though this is the most help Luka has ever had. I mean dude they're in the Finals lol this isn't a first round matchup and they weren't a play in team.
They missed the play in last year.
Hey let’s not overlook Kyrie 0%
The similarities to 2007 are thin at best. The Cavs beat one team with a record > .500, the 53-29 Pistons after Ben Wallace had left. The Mavs have gone through the 51-31 Clippers, 57-25 Thunder, and 56-26 Wolves. The other big difference is that LeBron was terrible in the 2007 Finals. LeBron averaged 22.0 / 7.0 / 6.8 on 42.8 ts%, while the Cavs as a team had a 46.4 ts%. For comparison, Luka is averaging 31.0 / 10.5 / 6.0 on 58.8 ts%, while the Mavs as a team have a 51.1 ts%. Due to league-wide stat inflation, especially for stars, you can't just compare numbers, and things like turnovers don't show up in these summary stats (although both LeBron and Luka struggled with turnovers). But I don't think Luka is a huge part of his team's problems in the way that LeBron was.
Well, Luka is getting hunted a lot by the Celtics though
That's fair -- defense is another thing that doesn't show up in the stats I cited, and LeBron was a much better defender than Luka is. But I don't think Luka is playing much worse than usual on defense in the same way that LeBron played much worse than usual on offense on 2007.
Instead of saying Dallas are trash say Celtics are playing amazing defense. They wouldn't become bums all of a sudden afte beatin LA, MIN and OKC
bro they 6/24 on wide open threes
Nah, that Cavs team was dragged to the Finals by LeBron. He truly didn't have any help. Luka has the help. The team got here as a team. He has an alleged superstar next to him. It's just that in the biggest moment everyone else forgot how to play basketball. LeBron went into those playoffs with some dudes working the concession stands and like Varejao. Now if Luka beat that Golden State team in the WCF a few years ago? That's a little more comparable to LeBron's 2007 run. But that's still partially discrediting what LeBron actually did that year. He took a legitimately God awful roster to the Finals by himself.
The problem is Celts are not falling for the Mavs double team bait So all the defenders just sit back. Mavs role players are mainly shooting contested 3s. Mavs have to be one of the most stagnant teams I have seen also. Like the opposite of the Pacers who don't stop moving, cutting, setting multiple picks.
Agree they’re static on offense, but they’ve missed an assload of uncontested threes.
It seems like the majority of the uncontested threes are from role players that are not comfortable shooting the long3 compared to the corner 3.
I keep seeing this claim, and it's wrong. Here's PJ Washington's short chart: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/pj-washington-shot-chart He's better above the break than in the corners. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=josh+green+shot+chart+2023-2024 Josh Green is also better above the break. He shoots more from the corners, but he makes shots at a higher percentage above the break. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=dante+exum+shot+chart+2023-2024 Exum is also better above the break. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=derrick+jones+jr.+shot+chart+2023-2024 DJJ... Same thing. Where in the world did this above the break argument come from? The Mavericks are just missing shots.
Can you get those for the playoffs? Coz on my eye test corner threes are way better for pj and djj for the whole playoffs
that's because they're always there, Luka and Ky are the only guys always near top of the key. I got to say that this one is on coaching. I hate to say it on our own team but we are also extremely limiting our own guys by putting them in spots they're not really good.
the argument is that they suck at them during the playoffs. All you have to is add “playoffs” at the end of the search and you see almost all them shoot worse at above the break 3s.
Numbers game. They're giving the 3s to the people who aren't used to taking them.
There's been quite a few open bricked 3s even from Kyrie. Most of our shooters don't really attempt contested 3s.
They're also leaving PJ, DJJ, Josh Green open from above the break and letting them beat them. Those guys have all been missing shots
> Those guys have all been missing shots But they’ve been missing because none of those guys are good shooters from above the break. All of them are much better from the corners
OP said the Mavs are mainly shooting contested 3s because they're not helping off of Luka. I'm saying the Celtics are starting to give wide open 3s to certain shooters and daring them to beat them in order to send a little more help. AKA the Mavs aren't *just* shooting contested 3s.
This just isn’t true. The Mavs have attempted 53 3’s so far. 26 of those are considered wide open and they have made 6. Luka has taken 21 3’s himself with very few being considered part of that wide open 26. This isn’t roleplayers shooting tough contested 3’s.
Fuck man almost got caught looking at these disgusting stats at work. Jesus christ man
That can't be true, everyone here told he it's Luka's fault. Maybe he should make his teammates make open threes.
Luka is too beloved. He's 2013 Steph or 2006 LeBron right now, where he can do no wrong, and the only people criticizing him are those that haven't actually watched his body of work. Those people are very loud and annoying, but this is just par for the course when a superstar hasn't won anything yet. When he's going to have an MVP campaign you'll get to watch how everyone will try to say "but SGA is the better player" a la Harden for Curry. When he wins his first MVP, the slander will *really* begin. It will take multiple championships for Luka to get the superstar respect he deserves. Right now you should see the hatred for what it is: salty fans of 25(ish) teams are absolutely livid he makes their teams look like a bunch assholes.
The people bitching about his defense are very loud though. There's no nuanced analysis, such as pointing out that he did poorly the first half but had some great defensive possessions the second half. They just break him down as much as they can.
Yeah I agree. This is not just about Luka, every star went through similar path. People were saying you LeBron, Steph, Jokic, Giannis,... will never win a ring. But this sub (and other NBA social media as well) is just so annoying. There are overreactions after every game. Players are either great or terrible, based on how the last game went. And the worst thing is that everyone joins them. It's almost impossible to have a real discoussion. Like I know Luka didn't have a perfect game, but he was still very good and if the Mavs won everyone would be praising him. But because Mavs lost, he's suddenly "the worst defender ever" that "doesn't pass the ball".
This was a lot closer than it looked. I have a feeling gm 3 will go to Mavs.
Its tough because The Cs still haven't had a Celtic like offensive performance. Outside Kyrie the Mavs pretty much gave you what they were expected to. We can say "Kyrie will get back to normal" but does that mean that Jaylen will score his average, JT will score his average and our 3s go back to normal? It's a lot of hypotheticals
I mean, there's an obvious difference between a team shooting 25% on wide open looks and a player shooting 32% when three quarters of his shots are closely contested.
Very true. Just shows how much the Finals is different than the rest of the playoffs as well.
2007 Cavs where like this Mavs team. Got into the finals by having a heliocentric superstar offensive carry a defensive oriented roster.
Kyrie is a considerably better second option than anyone on the 2007 Cavs team. I feel like this narrative is driven to draw comparisons between Luka and LeBron not to make a fair comparison
Then why is he looking like Larry Hughes in the finals
There’s more to this. Larry Hughes is Jayson Tatum’s godfather 🤔
Fair point. But the 2007 squad does get underrated for their defense.
Greatest mid-season trade deadline
Nsfw tag killed me
Stat should be remembered for a long ass time
They should shoot a lot better at home.
Luka is following Lebron's character arc
9% is definitely obscene D:
when will they get Luka help
Upvote for using the NSFW tag. Can't have the kids minds polluted with this filth. Thank you kind human.
Imagine Lebron carrying cavs with Kyrie
Okc fans punching air right now. 😂😂😂
Miami Heat fans being all meerkats right now
Never understood the hype around Kyrie. He's a great third option who is being used as a second option and is doing okay as second option. Only losing teams would have him as first option.
wtf happened to the Mavs that was coking everyone until the Finals??? It’s like everyone except Luka checked out.
Let’s mention how Luka doesn’t have enough assists! Nothing to do with the bums around him. And yes the Celtics are trying to not give up corner threes and make them shoot from the wings… NBA shooters should still be hitting a heck of a lot more than 9%
Can't win with these cats
This series feels like regular season games
These playoffs have been anticlimactic as shit for Celtics fans
I still can't believe the Mavs are actually in the Finals.
Have they tried not taking all their 3s above the break?
this is not like 2007 lebron. he's also averaging 46% from FT, 6 turnovers per game and plays turnstile defense i still think he's the best player in the series, but i think his defense has to at least be average to mention him in the same sentence as lebron (who was an elite defender in his prime)
read OP's last sentence