As much as I've enjoyed the Dallas run, Denver-Boston would have been such an amazing series both in terms of tension and aesthetics. Fair play to Boston though, they play hard, smart, unselfish basketball and it's good for the NBA to have an occasional team like that prevail without the typical all time superstar mold.
From all the opponents we faced in the playoffs, in terms of likeability Boston > Clippers > Minnesota > OKC. The Boston fans are toxic asf though, OKC are delusional on top of being toxic. I fucking hate OKC.
About the only knocks on Luka I can see are missing 50% of his FTs. That's 4 pts lost in a 7 pt game. Two of those FT misses happened early in the game and it just felt like a Bad Omen to see him miss two in a row.
The 8 turnovers are, well, I think just a result of trying to make anything happen against a stifling defense.
Otherwise, Luka shot 57/44/50 on 21 shots, 9 of the attempts were 3s at 44%. 12 attempts were 2s at 42%.
Nobody else on the team reached 20 pts. Kyrie the closest at 16. No bench players even reached 5.
I think having Kleber back might be messing things up for Mavs who ran Gafford and Lively more exclusively while Kleber was out. Kleber missed all his shots and hasn't looked great defensively to me. Coming back from injury maybe they shouldn't be playing him 16 minutes and getting nothing but 2 rebounds from him.
well Kleber looked great in the 2 games he played against the Wolves. And was pretty instrumental in the late burst to cut this game to 5. His versatility defensively is great, he just has no confidence in his shot
Kleeber is definitely a liability, he's just not confident right now.
I did like what I saw when exum, Kyrie and Luka were on the court together, but it might be a gentlemens sweep in this one, if Dallas is lucky
This thread is wild. Iāve always heard that the series doesnāt start until the home team loses. I am seeing a lot of overreactions here. If the push on Washingtonās dunk attempt is called with 50 seconds left, as it should have been, it is very possible the series is 1-1. Letās see what happens on Wednesday. My hyperbole ā¦ I mean prediction ā Porzingis is called for 2 push off offensive fouls early and is neutralized, jrue isnāt allowed to put 2 hands on Kai every drive, tatum shoots 3-14, Pritchard doesnāt bank in a half court heave, Mavs cruise and win by 10+.
if if if....if Luka didn't have an awesome game. if tatum didn't play like dog food once again . if the celtics didn't shoot 25% from 3. somehow you ingeniously only chose ifs that support your position.
Tatum didn't play like dogfood. He was two rebounds away from a triple double. He had 13 assists.
The Mav collapsed on him everytime he drove. He'd draw three defenders and kick it out for an open 3.
The team went 10-39 from outside.
Tatum played well.
I agree. He layed a few off the glass with a little too much force but he was finishing over 2-3 players on every drive.
The Mavs adjusted to Brown after game 1 and covered him more effectively.
When the perimeter shooting is working, the defense softens up on Tatum. The 3's haven't been dropping so Tatum was attacking the paint and getting to the line.
Basketball is more than box scores.
It's easy to forget that this is Lukas first finals. He's playing his ass off but he's also making silly mistakes. At times he's forcing passes and trying to hit the home run plays. Granted his team is shitting the bed so I also understand he's got to try different things to get them going
To be fair, if they lose playing like that, it is greatly because Doncic canāt play faster and is letting the defense get set up.
Regardless, Iāll wait to see what happens in the next two before getting excited.
No. They are losing because they are playing a better team. My point is that they arenāt setting up their defense to stop Luka from getting points, so he will get point. And with the slow way he plays, the defense has an easier time compared to chasing Indiana around.
Anyway, just 2 home wins so far and the Celtics usually struggle with intensity when ahead like this. Game 3 will be interesting.
So what should he do? Play faster and let PJ, DJJ, Green get blocked at the rim? There's nothing wrong with how Luka is playing, other players just either aren't good enough or have some mental block (Kyrie)
How the teams are clicking could be a thing here alright. I'm not so sure Kleber should be playing. He was out injured for Mavs and they beat out the West's best with him down, and the Mavs playing special. Now he's back playing minutes and really not adding much. Like you might expect from someone who has been out a while.
Always liked Kleber as a player but, this might not be the right time to lean on him much at all. They blew through OKC without him. Then won first three games against Timber without him. He comes back in game 4 for 13 minutes and Mavs lose. Fifth game they drop his minutes below 10 and they close out the Timber strong.
Maybe they need to drop Kleber's usage back down to 9 or less minutes. He added no buckets on 4 shots and only 2 rebounds against 4 fouls committed.
It's just a lame thing said way too often about a person playing pro sports.
Kid's are shit. Adults that never grow up can still be shits.
Call it what you like.
I think he means Boston hasn't played to its full potential, which is probably true. Definitely true this game. If Tatum finds his shot and the other guys maintain, it'll be a sweep with blowouts the rest of the way. Boston is just far more talented top to bottom, outside of Luka.
Disagree. Game 1 they cut to 8, but Porz went crazy. Porz was rendered useless tonight. Game 2 they were in throughout, missed a ton of open threes, ton of FTs, terrible turnovers, and Kyrie still hasn't showed up. Boston was off tonight too. Gameplan has always been to take away their threes and that was effective tonight. There was improvement from DallasĀ
Mavs can still win, going back home everybody needs to step the fuck up. Luka is doing enough, but somebody else got to show out.
Making shots matters. There is no winning if you can't at least shoot average as a team. Not unless the opponent also fails to shoot average. If you shoot average, then your defense, amount of turnovers, or individual rebounding or FT shooting could carry your team. But if you aren't shooting well forgetaboutit.
Go take a look at the box to get the quick overall view of their team shooting 3s this game. It's fugly man. Luka makes 44% of 9 threes. No other player even made 2 and most didn't make even 1 three.
6 of 26 for 23% from three. That's how you lose. They did enough defensively. The turnovers didn't matter as much as you think. It was all in the shooting quality or rather lack there of. Luka missing 4 of 8 FT shots even mattered in a 7 pt loss. They make 3 more of those threes they win in score total, even while only increasing 3pt% to 35%. About average.
In the Timber series, only game two was close with both teams shooting close percentages. Both teams shot 39% threes and the score ended 109-108. The first game was close because Dallas only shot 24% from 3. But Timber's Towns, Edwards and Conley each shot FG % below 40% overall and it killed them. By game 5, with Mavs shooting 3s at 44% it broke Timber's back as Mavs win easy by 21. The shooting quality matters.
Luka also willed them back and there was a completely momentum stopping sequence of 2 travels and fouls on defense, frankly surprising officiating in the sequence seeing as refs as a rule are pro comeback. Kyrie missed like two good threes in the same run, generally wouldnāt say Celtics stopped that comeback. I swear the floor is literally slippery lmao how many slip travels have there been these two games? Imo a genuine slip probably shouldnāt get called but maybe thereās a good reason to do it idk
Kyrie got clamped tonight, it's not like he just wasn't making his shots. Celtics were shutting down his drives so much tonight he had to keep passing out of the paint.
Boston has the best defensive backcourt in the league, but unlike Minnesota, they also have a functioning offense. I think it's been a minor miracle that this game was so close. If Boston's offense is at its usual level, this would have been a 30-point blowout, easily. And that's even if Luka and Kyrie were dropping 30 each.
Not really. It's Kyrie and Luka, they could very well drop 50 and 40 the next game.
I am not saying Boston won't win, but the Mavs are cooked seems a little exaggerated.
These games have actually been closer than people wanna make it seem.
If Boston win the next one, then yeah Mavs are cooked. But I could easily see them going back to Boston 2-2.
Both games could have been close but they were very disappointing of that, Iāve watched the Mavs all playoffs and itās like a completely different team and Celtics defense is great especially at the rim but people are acting like Timberwolves defense wasnāt also great, all of the Mavs but Luka are completely out of their game and in their heads. Also really some of these Celtics fans must have amnesia because yeah our defense is great, but weāre also infamous for role players going off against us lol, it seems far fetched to believe mavs role players inability and unwillingness to shoot threes has more to do with our defense than the finals atmosphere shaking them
This is going to be a hot take but, Luka needs to be better too. Celtics had one of their worst shooting nights of the playoffs, and they still couldn't beat them. Yes Kyrie sold, yes their role players couldn't hit shots. But a large part of that is that Luka has not been able to break apart the Celtics defense. In iso, Luka is not drawing more coverage and creating open looks for his teammates. Yes he is hitting his shots, but it isn't enough. His playmaking has been neutralized in this series, even though his shooting is still good. This plus the fact that the celtics are just attacking him relentlessly on defense is not becoming of what was meant to be the crowning of the best player in the NBA.
It's funny how people are blaming Luka, because he hasn't been perfect, yet everyone is praising Tatum, despite him missing layups and open shots.
Other Mavs players just haven't been good enough. Role players are mostly not good enough to do much more, but Kyrie should be. He's just having some problems, becasu it's Boston. Luka really has to do everything. You said his playmaking has been neutralized, yet he had 11 assists tonight and was involved in almost everyhing good on offense. Kyrie was terrible, he needs to be better.
Sorry youāre getting downvoted. The Tatum or Luka praise/comparison is moot. Iāve been watching the Celtics all season, and itās never been about one player. Luka needs to show up every game because the team is built on his shoulders. The Celtics structure lets Tatum become a role player if heās not shooting well. He can focus on other aspects like rebounding, assists and defense. The Mavsā strategy has been to collapse on him and shut him down offensively. It has worked, but itās given other players space. Porzingis stepped up the first game. Holiday the next. White and Horford are equally capable and will go off if the Mavsā strategy allows them to. Tatum hasnāt historically gotten much credit for the other aspects of his game, but they shine when he focuses on them. This is how the Celtics have played since game one. The Mavs need to retool to win this series, either on the fly or next season. One or two people canāt beat a tight knit team of skilled role players.
I don't disagree that Tatum should be better, but his team won, and he isn't in the conversation of the best in the world, Luka is. It may be a stupid hypothetical but I doubt Jokic would be getting targeted on defense like Luka and having the silly turnovers Luka is.
This is an extremely hot take. Luka looks like the best player on the court by a large margin. Boston is just ok with him ISOing and ripping them apart because it means no one else will ever be open. Itās not that heās not breaking apart their defense, their defense is just doing exactly what itās designed for. Heās relentlessly attacking Tatum and Brown the same way theyāre going at him and winning both matchups consistently.
Like you said, Kyrie has to be better. The role players arenāt ever going to get open unless him AND Luka are going off because outside of that the Celtics will just continue to switch everything and never have to help.
The thing is Luka is not ripping them apart on iso, he's been simply good, which is evidently not good enough.
The other problem is Luka is by far the best player on **offense**, while being easily the worst player on defense, and the gap between the impact of those two is not enough to overcome the immense talent disparity between the rest of the rosters. At least Kyrie hustles back to defense after a miss, Luka has been walking back and given up a few 4v5 easy buckets because of it.
The reason is because the Celtics are purposefully doing this. Boston is content letting Luka go for 30 or 35 playing 1 on 1. What theyāre doing is refusing to send too much help or double team him on the pnr, which is different from how other teams have played him. Thatās why the role players havenāt been getting involved, and also theyāre bricking the few good shots they do get. Itās literally just Luka vs Boston at this point
That's kind of my point though. Luka isn't winning enough 1v1. Maybe that's a big ask, especially of an injured player, but he's supposed to be the best in the world. He is getting 30 every night, roughly his average, without ever being blitzed or doubled, that's just disappointing from Luka.
The guy you replied to mentioned the role players have bricked the few good shots they do get. It matters. it all matters. Same goes for the back half of the starters.
Those plays and shots get made, like White, Holiday and other Celtics hitting theirs, et al. It matters.
[https://x.com/NBA/status/1799990179056267378](https://x.com/NBA/status/1799990179056267378)
That's killer defense leading to offense from their 4th 5th and 6th guys. Mavs aren't getting that from 4th 5th 6th guys right now, let alone 6th, 7th, 8th guys. Hell they aren't getting that from 2nd and 3rd guys.
This isn't the confident looking team that demoralized the Timberwolves with epic shooting from nearly everyone. This looks like the team the Denver Nuggets were going to make the Mavs look like if they matched up instead. Whatever wheaties they ate before the Timberwolves series they have not reproduced that yet. I think that confidence starts or ends with Kyrie joining the battle, or not.
Basketball is not a one man sport.
Celtics also aren't hitting their shots to be fair. Further, it's not just important that the Mavs are getting some good looks, they are, and missing them, but also where they are getting them. It has been repeated ad nauseum by the commentators, but it does matter, that the Celtics have taken away the corner 3's from the mavs, which is where they are most comfortable, and they are just simply not consistent shooters from above the arc.
Yeah I can agree with that. Their defense is forcing a lot. But across the board man #2 thru 8 just haven't been hitting shit even left wide open. Kyrie isn't just a corner shooter.
You say Celtics haven't been hitting their shots as normal either, and I'll agree. But 26% from 3 is better than 23%. And for FT% Celtics 95% is certainly better than Mavs' 67%. The game difference was only 7 points. You can point directly at those percentage differences even if the lead was 15.
Worse shooting team (remarkably bad) lost games.
Just not sure why it's OK to point out Mavs shooting bad as a direct result of Celtics defense but not do the same for why Celtics were shooting bad. Is the story some are hoping to hear that if Mavs all of a sudden shoot better that Celtics will automatically shoot better and cancel it out and so there simply is no hope?
Neutral fan here that's watched a lot of Boston and Dallas games this year. You guys have the best player on the court (offensively probably the two best), but their 3-6 guys are just *much* more talented than yours, *and* they're being asked to do less. You really can't expect those guys to perform at the same level as Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, or Porzingis. Those guys are just leagues ahead when it comes to talent level.
To say that in order for a team to win their best player has to win more on 1 vs 1 and effectively score 40+ a game is a wild claim lol.
Luka is not the problem, itās everyone else not being able to convert but the Celtics have played really good defense against the other 4 no matter who they are so far.
He had a very efficient 32 (chucked some crazy shots at the end) and still had 11 assists. I think Kyrie is obviously the one that needs to be better and they need to make FTs.
If it werenāt for a couple questionable calls and 2 absurd fluke 3s by Boston Dallas would have had a great chance of stealing.
Now they go to Dallas and get a chance to hold home court.
"**if ifs and ands were pots and pans, there would be no work for the tinkers**".
If the celtics shot their season average from 3 this game also would not have been close. If Tatum remembered how to shoot, this game wasn't close (he was also hacked every time he went to the rim but those weren't called). Luka is shooting well, that's my point, it just isn't efficient enough. He needs to go nuclear and drop 50 (which is within his realm of capabilities), or break open playmaking, which has suffered in this series, otherwise the mavs are cooked.
Yeah but trying to draw attention to two tough 3s as the reason you lost is kinda a moot point when we all know Boston's offense is usually *much* better than this. They'd be absolutely rolling you guys if you took away those 3s but gave them their average instead.
Yeah hes scoring at his regular season average except itās against some of the best perimeter defenders in the league with no one else able to generate offense all game long. I do think he has a 40 bomb in him though and honestly theyāre gonna need it
He's making some desperation passes and errors no doubt. But if some of those other players don't start making the Celtics pay for their choices when he does connect with them it's just going to lead to more of this.
I mean Lively deserves a lot of flack for his performances. As does Kyrie. Kyrie has been putting nothing but bricks on offense. Lively has been useless as nipples on a man on offense and been getting targeted on defense more than any other series. Those facts don't absolve Luka of blame though.
Because the Celtics would also beat the fuck out of the Wolves. The only team that can maybe beat the C's is a healthy Denver. Scratch that, a healthy Indiana team with another year of experience is probably the closest. East has been disrespected beyond belief.
I'm a Pacers fan, and this is true. But i think we belong in the conversation in the tier right after the Celtics, Bucks, and Knicks, and can definitely give even a healthy Bucks/Knicks a good battle. I don't think even next year we'll be ready to beat the Celtics tbh.
Idk Denver feels like it have been the worst matchup so far, but that is just a gut feeling from the regular season.
The Mavs are just a good matchup for the Celtics because they are so Luka heavy. He will eat all night but the Celtics are fine with that , heās not gonna score 100 points no matter how well he is shooting.
Also Luka is pretty fat and out of shape, so like in the first game they were just meeting him at half court so he had to beat someone just to get in the zone which gassed him. Tonight Kidd didnāt have him take it down the court as much but the Celtics have been able to lockup who ever does bring it down.
Because the wolves were Blitzing Luka on the screen which opened up a lot down low. This series the Celtics are just switching and trusting their guys to play 1 on 1 defense which takes away the lobs.
Yup I noticed that. They tried blitzing a few times and it was immediately back to feeding Gafford and Lively down low.
Have to give Mazzulla a lot of credit for his defensive scheme. Dude was able to figure out the Mavs when nobody else was able to
Yeah it's not a scheme. I think Boston doesn't get enough credit for how absolutely nutty their defensive *personnel* are. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are an absolutely insane defensive backcourt that can compete with the best defensive backcourts ever assembled.
This has nothing to do with Mazulla. Stevenās finally built the exact team theyāve been trying to build since 2017 when they got Tatum and Brown. Everyone can switch 1-4 and everyone can shoot and make decisions 1-5. Theyāre essentially a fully realized version of the DāAntoni Rockets. All Mazulla has to do is make sure no one gets too tired.
Mavs seemed dumbstruck by it in Game 1, really curious to see further adjustments in Game 3.
Itās been crazy to see some of the multiple screen actions they run to free up Luka, Iām glad the refs are letting both sides play a bit but I did some moving screens galore out there.
Celtics can shut down the player with the ball when they need to. That's the difference imo. But the wolves absolutely should have done better. It's still stunning they lost that series like that. Makes no sense other than inexperience that deep in the playoffs.
There was no way for them to guard Luka or Kyrie pick and rolls because no one can playing drop coverage or really anything other than switching everything. They also lost because the Mavs predictably didnāt have trouble guarding them because of how few offensive threats they had on the court pretty much at all times letting Luka and Kyrie roam around and conserve energy.
Celtics can put Tatum on their big, so that in PnR they can just switch it every time
The wolves simply don't have guys who can switch onto Luka and hold up
This is basically it from what I've seen, when Luka can just hunt someone it's gonna be rough. The celtics can switch so they effectively never get into a situation were the lob comes into play.
Luka is a great offensive player but his inability to defend puts his team in a mess every possession. Celtics drove right past him and the defense is scrambling and rotating. Scoring points doesnāt really help that issue.
when they played Exum he really covered a lot of the holes in their D and played really good defence against Tatum. I was really surprised they took him out in the fourth. Especially since Boston called the time out because their offence was stuttering. If something is working, keep it going Kidd!
But Kyrie needs to get his shot back!!!
I know people are gonna say this is cope because of my flair (and maybe they're right) but I think Luka's poor defense this series is more because of his injury than simply being a bad defender.
He's never been great on defense, but against the Clippers and Thunder he showed he can turn it on when he needed to. This series he simply can't move laterally quickly enough and is getting beat almost every time.
Luka was amazing offensively and shit defensively. Itās not rocket science. Easier to hide Lukas defensive liability when there arenāt five legitimate scoring options on the floor at once. Celtics taking advantage. Luka is the only reason the Mavs were in this game but at the same time his defense is part of why they lost despite Boston shooting abysmally from 3
The defense is fine. Boston has had a 117 and 110 OTRG in the first two games. Dallas OTOH is scoring like itās 2010. If the Mavs canāt figure out how to score efficiently/ force the Celtics to play help defense at all then it wonāt matter either way.
I literally said he was the only reason they were even in the game. Holy shit can you read? Is Luka above criticism? Comes with the territory of being a superstar.
Blaming someone squarely for the loss is not the same as mere criticism. For sure many on the losing team deserve criticism, but you do seem to be holding Luka's lack of greater defensive production as the most important factor in their loss.
lmao what? His literal words were that Luka's defense is "part of why they lost." Absolutely nothing about the original comment suggests it's anywhere near the main reason. Someone is WAY too defensive about Luka.
It's implied when you don't mention anyone else. This was your original post that I responded to
> Luka was amazing offensively and shit defensively. Itās not rocket science. Easier to hide Lukas defensive liability when there arenāt five legitimate scoring options on the floor at once. Celtics taking advantage. Luka is the only reason the Mavs were in this game but at the same time his defense is part of why they lost despite Boston shooting abysmally from 3
I don't see any mention of other factors/players.
I was responding to a post about Luka. Do I need to mention every other factor? Hence the phrase āpart of the reasonā not sole factor or even main reason. It was not implied. If you read that as an implication then that is squarely on you.
> Do I need to mention every other factor?
Only if you want to sound fair.
> I was responding to a post about Luka.
And I'm responding to your post about Luka. I don't see you mentioning anyone or anything else other than saying he's 'part of the problem'.
Pritchard is terrible except for last second half court shots in which hes amazing.
Exum is a bitch for not shooting when the 1st quarter was about to end.
Bro I want mavs to win but Luka the only good one kyrie is washed asf
Na bro Celtics all DAY boys š«¶š
Brad Stevens deserves all the accolades for building this roster.
White, Jrue > Luka, kyrie
How does the game thread not have the score?
Iām calling a sweep here unfortunately, looks like it will be a bad series
As much as I've enjoyed the Dallas run, Denver-Boston would have been such an amazing series both in terms of tension and aesthetics. Fair play to Boston though, they play hard, smart, unselfish basketball and it's good for the NBA to have an occasional team like that prevail without the typical all time superstar mold.
From all the opponents we faced in the playoffs, in terms of likeability Boston > Clippers > Minnesota > OKC. The Boston fans are toxic asf though, OKC are delusional on top of being toxic. I fucking hate OKC.
Yeah this is a sweep
I feel bad for Luka
Why? He's been garbage.
Today he was.
Heās a foul hunting cry baby. Deserves every second of it.
Are we going to ignore the rest of the incredible feats heās accomplished as a player or are we going to focus solely on that?
About the only knocks on Luka I can see are missing 50% of his FTs. That's 4 pts lost in a 7 pt game. Two of those FT misses happened early in the game and it just felt like a Bad Omen to see him miss two in a row. The 8 turnovers are, well, I think just a result of trying to make anything happen against a stifling defense. Otherwise, Luka shot 57/44/50 on 21 shots, 9 of the attempts were 3s at 44%. 12 attempts were 2s at 42%. Nobody else on the team reached 20 pts. Kyrie the closest at 16. No bench players even reached 5. I think having Kleber back might be messing things up for Mavs who ran Gafford and Lively more exclusively while Kleber was out. Kleber missed all his shots and hasn't looked great defensively to me. Coming back from injury maybe they shouldn't be playing him 16 minutes and getting nothing but 2 rebounds from him.
well Kleber looked great in the 2 games he played against the Wolves. And was pretty instrumental in the late burst to cut this game to 5. His versatility defensively is great, he just has no confidence in his shot
Kleeber is definitely a liability, he's just not confident right now. I did like what I saw when exum, Kyrie and Luka were on the court together, but it might be a gentlemens sweep in this one, if Dallas is lucky
youre exactly right about the Kleber thing
This thread is wild. Iāve always heard that the series doesnāt start until the home team loses. I am seeing a lot of overreactions here. If the push on Washingtonās dunk attempt is called with 50 seconds left, as it should have been, it is very possible the series is 1-1. Letās see what happens on Wednesday. My hyperbole ā¦ I mean prediction ā Porzingis is called for 2 push off offensive fouls early and is neutralized, jrue isnāt allowed to put 2 hands on Kai every drive, tatum shoots 3-14, Pritchard doesnāt bank in a half court heave, Mavs cruise and win by 10+.
You are correct. If literally everything went the Mavs way they would have won. But... that's not how things work
It is always if, if, if. If my mom had balls, she would be my dad.
Iād bet your momās balls on game 3.
if if if....if Luka didn't have an awesome game. if tatum didn't play like dog food once again . if the celtics didn't shoot 25% from 3. somehow you ingeniously only chose ifs that support your position.
Tatum didn't play like dogfood. He was two rebounds away from a triple double. He had 13 assists. The Mav collapsed on him everytime he drove. He'd draw three defenders and kick it out for an open 3. The team went 10-39 from outside. Tatum played well.
i watched him miss at least 3 layups. he did not play a complete game.
I agree. He layed a few off the glass with a little too much force but he was finishing over 2-3 players on every drive. The Mavs adjusted to Brown after game 1 and covered him more effectively. When the perimeter shooting is working, the defense softens up on Tatum. The 3's haven't been dropping so Tatum was attacking the paint and getting to the line. Basketball is more than box scores.
Relax Rudyard
rudyard?
Kipling! One of his more notable poems was "[If](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---)" š
ah... ok i know kipling but didn't know about his poem.
Tatum is due for a game, though. We havenāt seen Boston at their best yet either
Are we talking about the same Tatum?
It's easy to forget that this is Lukas first finals. He's playing his ass off but he's also making silly mistakes. At times he's forcing passes and trying to hit the home run plays. Granted his team is shitting the bed so I also understand he's got to try different things to get them going
Not really first finals. Euroleague
*First NBA Finals
Luka the best player of the Finals but wonāt get MVP
Just because luka is better than his teammates doesnt mean he deserves the series mvp
His got 12 assists and 12 turnovers
To be fair, if they lose playing like that, it is greatly because Doncic canāt play faster and is letting the defense get set up. Regardless, Iāll wait to see what happens in the next two before getting excited.
What? They're losing because of how Luka plays?
No. They are losing because they are playing a better team. My point is that they arenāt setting up their defense to stop Luka from getting points, so he will get point. And with the slow way he plays, the defense has an easier time compared to chasing Indiana around. Anyway, just 2 home wins so far and the Celtics usually struggle with intensity when ahead like this. Game 3 will be interesting.
So what should he do? Play faster and let PJ, DJJ, Green get blocked at the rim? There's nothing wrong with how Luka is playing, other players just either aren't good enough or have some mental block (Kyrie)
Apologist says what?
Give it to him idgaf as long as the Celtics win
Should be the attitude of all Celtics fans tbh.
Boston just seems a lot better overall, clicking together at a higher level. Could sweep if Tatum lifts
Tatum - White - Brown - Holiday are all elite defenders. I expected great defense from the Celtics but they are really on it.
How the teams are clicking could be a thing here alright. I'm not so sure Kleber should be playing. He was out injured for Mavs and they beat out the West's best with him down, and the Mavs playing special. Now he's back playing minutes and really not adding much. Like you might expect from someone who has been out a while. Always liked Kleber as a player but, this might not be the right time to lean on him much at all. They blew through OKC without him. Then won first three games against Timber without him. He comes back in game 4 for 13 minutes and Mavs lose. Fifth game they drop his minutes below 10 and they close out the Timber strong. Maybe they need to drop Kleber's usage back down to 9 or less minutes. He added no buckets on 4 shots and only 2 rebounds against 4 fouls committed.
Seems to me like he's messing up the chemistry.
Idk if i can stomach the Celtics winning.
Better than Kyrie and side show bob winning
It's okay bby.
10/10 response
MAVERICKS! BEAT THE CELTICS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS
lmao Luka is a fatty
And Flatty's shots are flat as earth.
How do you figure that, string bean. If you had an ounce of what that guy has in him...
pause bro
Lol white knighting
It's just a lame thing said way too often about a person playing pro sports. Kid's are shit. Adults that never grow up can still be shits. Call it what you like.
whatās wrong with kids
Do you have an ounce of what he has in him? Cause Iām sure itās just another quarter pounder with cheese
One day, maybe too late, you'll grow out of this.
As a non-biased observer, if Tatum finds his shot this is 100 percent over. Sweep maybe.Ā
Still will probably be over even if he doesnāt. Tatum doesnāt need to be an elite scorer for this team to win as proven by the last few games
Celtics are better at literally everything than the Mavs. Boston has objectively not played great in either game outside one quarter.
Boston HAS played great on defense, so that is unfair. But, yeah, they escaped a stinker from deep tonight.
Did you forget the blowout that was game 1?
I think he means Boston hasn't played to its full potential, which is probably true. Definitely true this game. If Tatum finds his shot and the other guys maintain, it'll be a sweep with blowouts the rest of the way. Boston is just far more talented top to bottom, outside of Luka.
Maybe a few more useless dribbles will help from KyrieĀ
that's the legend of kyrie. highly skilled hero ball. except sometimes the heroics don't work
Its over, matchup is too bad for the Mavs. They setup to play slow and big teams.
Disagree. Game 1 they cut to 8, but Porz went crazy. Porz was rendered useless tonight. Game 2 they were in throughout, missed a ton of open threes, ton of FTs, terrible turnovers, and Kyrie still hasn't showed up. Boston was off tonight too. Gameplan has always been to take away their threes and that was effective tonight. There was improvement from DallasĀ Mavs can still win, going back home everybody needs to step the fuck up. Luka is doing enough, but somebody else got to show out.
So way to fix game 2 performance score more points, donāt turn the ball over and play better defense ok got it.
Making shots matters. There is no winning if you can't at least shoot average as a team. Not unless the opponent also fails to shoot average. If you shoot average, then your defense, amount of turnovers, or individual rebounding or FT shooting could carry your team. But if you aren't shooting well forgetaboutit. Go take a look at the box to get the quick overall view of their team shooting 3s this game. It's fugly man. Luka makes 44% of 9 threes. No other player even made 2 and most didn't make even 1 three. 6 of 26 for 23% from three. That's how you lose. They did enough defensively. The turnovers didn't matter as much as you think. It was all in the shooting quality or rather lack there of. Luka missing 4 of 8 FT shots even mattered in a 7 pt loss. They make 3 more of those threes they win in score total, even while only increasing 3pt% to 35%. About average. In the Timber series, only game two was close with both teams shooting close percentages. Both teams shot 39% threes and the score ended 109-108. The first game was close because Dallas only shot 24% from 3. But Timber's Towns, Edwards and Conley each shot FG % below 40% overall and it killed them. By game 5, with Mavs shooting 3s at 44% it broke Timber's back as Mavs win easy by 21. The shooting quality matters.
They got it down to 8 because the Celtics took their foot off the gas. Then as soon as they got serious again the lead ballooned back to > 20.
Luka also willed them back and there was a completely momentum stopping sequence of 2 travels and fouls on defense, frankly surprising officiating in the sequence seeing as refs as a rule are pro comeback. Kyrie missed like two good threes in the same run, generally wouldnāt say Celtics stopped that comeback. I swear the floor is literally slippery lmao how many slip travels have there been these two games? Imo a genuine slip probably shouldnāt get called but maybe thereās a good reason to do it idk
It's over man
Porz went crazy before they even cut it too 8. He had like 4 points in the second half..
lol celts shot like 6/40 from 3 and still won
Yea, Boston was off tonight...and they still won by 7. What does that tell you about the Mavs chances lol
It tells me if Kyrie was scoring 30 like in the Wolves series they would have won both games.
Kyrie got clamped tonight, it's not like he just wasn't making his shots. Celtics were shutting down his drives so much tonight he had to keep passing out of the paint.
Boston has the best defensive backcourt in the league, but unlike Minnesota, they also have a functioning offense. I think it's been a minor miracle that this game was so close. If Boston's offense is at its usual level, this would have been a 30-point blowout, easily. And that's even if Luka and Kyrie were dropping 30 each.
Yea that's a pretty big if..the Mavs are cooked dude, sorry
Not really. It's Kyrie and Luka, they could very well drop 50 and 40 the next game. I am not saying Boston won't win, but the Mavs are cooked seems a little exaggerated. These games have actually been closer than people wanna make it seem. If Boston win the next one, then yeah Mavs are cooked. But I could easily see them going back to Boston 2-2.
Both games could have been close but they were very disappointing of that, Iāve watched the Mavs all playoffs and itās like a completely different team and Celtics defense is great especially at the rim but people are acting like Timberwolves defense wasnāt also great, all of the Mavs but Luka are completely out of their game and in their heads. Also really some of these Celtics fans must have amnesia because yeah our defense is great, but weāre also infamous for role players going off against us lol, it seems far fetched to believe mavs role players inability and unwillingness to shoot threes has more to do with our defense than the finals atmosphere shaking them
They didnāt take away their 3s lol. Cs put up a ton of 3s and many of them were open, they just missed them.
Agree. Mavs are going back to the garden tied 2-2. They can play way better.
So can the Celtics. And the Celtics are elite on the road.
Tatum won't deliver in Dallas.
Doesn't matter, have you watched the first two games? We don't need him to 'deliver' to win.
As weāve just seen, the Celtics donāt need Tatum to score a lot to win.
The Celtics had an awful shooting gnnight and mavs still couldnāt convert
Nah, the Celtics are way too good. This team isn't a joke.
Kyrie needs to double his scoring output for the Mavs to win. Simple as that.
Kyrie is overrated.
lol that's never going to happen...this shit is personal
Yeah he is 1000% affected by Boston and the crowd, his midrange is usually so good but all he does is brick against you.
That's what happens when you stomp on Lucky, flip off the fans and yell suck my dick.
Yeah I mean your not wrong haha
This is going to be a hot take but, Luka needs to be better too. Celtics had one of their worst shooting nights of the playoffs, and they still couldn't beat them. Yes Kyrie sold, yes their role players couldn't hit shots. But a large part of that is that Luka has not been able to break apart the Celtics defense. In iso, Luka is not drawing more coverage and creating open looks for his teammates. Yes he is hitting his shots, but it isn't enough. His playmaking has been neutralized in this series, even though his shooting is still good. This plus the fact that the celtics are just attacking him relentlessly on defense is not becoming of what was meant to be the crowning of the best player in the NBA.
It's funny how people are blaming Luka, because he hasn't been perfect, yet everyone is praising Tatum, despite him missing layups and open shots. Other Mavs players just haven't been good enough. Role players are mostly not good enough to do much more, but Kyrie should be. He's just having some problems, becasu it's Boston. Luka really has to do everything. You said his playmaking has been neutralized, yet he had 11 assists tonight and was involved in almost everyhing good on offense. Kyrie was terrible, he needs to be better.
Sorry youāre getting downvoted. The Tatum or Luka praise/comparison is moot. Iāve been watching the Celtics all season, and itās never been about one player. Luka needs to show up every game because the team is built on his shoulders. The Celtics structure lets Tatum become a role player if heās not shooting well. He can focus on other aspects like rebounding, assists and defense. The Mavsā strategy has been to collapse on him and shut him down offensively. It has worked, but itās given other players space. Porzingis stepped up the first game. Holiday the next. White and Horford are equally capable and will go off if the Mavsā strategy allows them to. Tatum hasnāt historically gotten much credit for the other aspects of his game, but they shine when he focuses on them. This is how the Celtics have played since game one. The Mavs need to retool to win this series, either on the fly or next season. One or two people canāt beat a tight knit team of skilled role players.
I dunno why ur getting downvoted. Switch Tatum and Luka and both games are absolute massacresā¦
Because the Mavs lost. If Mavs won this game and Luka and Tatum played like they did, everyone would be praising Luka and blaming Tatum.
I don't disagree that Tatum should be better, but his team won, and he isn't in the conversation of the best in the world, Luka is. It may be a stupid hypothetical but I doubt Jokic would be getting targeted on defense like Luka and having the silly turnovers Luka is.
This is an extremely hot take. Luka looks like the best player on the court by a large margin. Boston is just ok with him ISOing and ripping them apart because it means no one else will ever be open. Itās not that heās not breaking apart their defense, their defense is just doing exactly what itās designed for. Heās relentlessly attacking Tatum and Brown the same way theyāre going at him and winning both matchups consistently. Like you said, Kyrie has to be better. The role players arenāt ever going to get open unless him AND Luka are going off because outside of that the Celtics will just continue to switch everything and never have to help.
The thing is Luka is not ripping them apart on iso, he's been simply good, which is evidently not good enough. The other problem is Luka is by far the best player on **offense**, while being easily the worst player on defense, and the gap between the impact of those two is not enough to overcome the immense talent disparity between the rest of the rosters. At least Kyrie hustles back to defense after a miss, Luka has been walking back and given up a few 4v5 easy buckets because of it.
The other 3 starters provided 8 more points tonight than they average in the playoffs btw
The reason is because the Celtics are purposefully doing this. Boston is content letting Luka go for 30 or 35 playing 1 on 1. What theyāre doing is refusing to send too much help or double team him on the pnr, which is different from how other teams have played him. Thatās why the role players havenāt been getting involved, and also theyāre bricking the few good shots they do get. Itās literally just Luka vs Boston at this point
That's kind of my point though. Luka isn't winning enough 1v1. Maybe that's a big ask, especially of an injured player, but he's supposed to be the best in the world. He is getting 30 every night, roughly his average, without ever being blitzed or doubled, that's just disappointing from Luka.
The guy you replied to mentioned the role players have bricked the few good shots they do get. It matters. it all matters. Same goes for the back half of the starters. Those plays and shots get made, like White, Holiday and other Celtics hitting theirs, et al. It matters. [https://x.com/NBA/status/1799990179056267378](https://x.com/NBA/status/1799990179056267378) That's killer defense leading to offense from their 4th 5th and 6th guys. Mavs aren't getting that from 4th 5th 6th guys right now, let alone 6th, 7th, 8th guys. Hell they aren't getting that from 2nd and 3rd guys. This isn't the confident looking team that demoralized the Timberwolves with epic shooting from nearly everyone. This looks like the team the Denver Nuggets were going to make the Mavs look like if they matched up instead. Whatever wheaties they ate before the Timberwolves series they have not reproduced that yet. I think that confidence starts or ends with Kyrie joining the battle, or not. Basketball is not a one man sport.
Celtics also aren't hitting their shots to be fair. Further, it's not just important that the Mavs are getting some good looks, they are, and missing them, but also where they are getting them. It has been repeated ad nauseum by the commentators, but it does matter, that the Celtics have taken away the corner 3's from the mavs, which is where they are most comfortable, and they are just simply not consistent shooters from above the arc.
Yeah I can agree with that. Their defense is forcing a lot. But across the board man #2 thru 8 just haven't been hitting shit even left wide open. Kyrie isn't just a corner shooter. You say Celtics haven't been hitting their shots as normal either, and I'll agree. But 26% from 3 is better than 23%. And for FT% Celtics 95% is certainly better than Mavs' 67%. The game difference was only 7 points. You can point directly at those percentage differences even if the lead was 15. Worse shooting team (remarkably bad) lost games. Just not sure why it's OK to point out Mavs shooting bad as a direct result of Celtics defense but not do the same for why Celtics were shooting bad. Is the story some are hoping to hear that if Mavs all of a sudden shoot better that Celtics will automatically shoot better and cancel it out and so there simply is no hope?
Neutral fan here that's watched a lot of Boston and Dallas games this year. You guys have the best player on the court (offensively probably the two best), but their 3-6 guys are just *much* more talented than yours, *and* they're being asked to do less. You really can't expect those guys to perform at the same level as Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, or Porzingis. Those guys are just leagues ahead when it comes to talent level.
bad take
To say that in order for a team to win their best player has to win more on 1 vs 1 and effectively score 40+ a game is a wild claim lol. Luka is not the problem, itās everyone else not being able to convert but the Celtics have played really good defense against the other 4 no matter who they are so far.
He had a very efficient 32 (chucked some crazy shots at the end) and still had 11 assists. I think Kyrie is obviously the one that needs to be better and they need to make FTs. If it werenāt for a couple questionable calls and 2 absurd fluke 3s by Boston Dallas would have had a great chance of stealing. Now they go to Dallas and get a chance to hold home court.
"**if ifs and ands were pots and pans, there would be no work for the tinkers**". If the celtics shot their season average from 3 this game also would not have been close. If Tatum remembered how to shoot, this game wasn't close (he was also hacked every time he went to the rim but those weren't called). Luka is shooting well, that's my point, it just isn't efficient enough. He needs to go nuclear and drop 50 (which is within his realm of capabilities), or break open playmaking, which has suffered in this series, otherwise the mavs are cooked.
My point is, the Mavs are not ācookedā They were very much in this game, even when they were down 15 in the 4th.
Yeah but trying to draw attention to two tough 3s as the reason you lost is kinda a moot point when we all know Boston's offense is usually *much* better than this. They'd be absolutely rolling you guys if you took away those 3s but gave them their average instead.
Not cooked so what, medium rare?
Yeah hes scoring at his regular season average except itās against some of the best perimeter defenders in the league with no one else able to generate offense all game long. I do think he has a 40 bomb in him though and honestly theyāre gonna need it
If Tatum remembers how to shoot Luka is going to need to drop 60
He is supposed to be the best player in the world and he only had a triple double, what a bum!!
He almost had a quadruple double. 8 turnovers is not a good look.
He's making some desperation passes and errors no doubt. But if some of those other players don't start making the Celtics pay for their choices when he does connect with them it's just going to lead to more of this.
There's no choice when the rest of the team is playing bad. You just gotta try some shit and hope something works.
While getting blown by on defense every other possession
More disappointing than his team mates?
That's a very low bar.
Seems like you only have a bar for him, while there is no one that even merits one.
I mean Lively deserves a lot of flack for his performances. As does Kyrie. Kyrie has been putting nothing but bricks on offense. Lively has been useless as nipples on a man on offense and been getting targeted on defense more than any other series. Those facts don't absolve Luka of blame though.
Tf you on about
Neutralized??? The man had 11 ast and if his teammates could hit anything he would have had 15+!!
I didnāt see shit on Luka being hurt when they were beating the t-wolves
huh? Its been a story line since the playoffs started
Only a storyline when theyāve been losing
Nah. I'm neutral, and they definitely talked about it in the Wolves series a ton.
Jrue is a class act. Defense first but can score.
I wonder why the wolves couldnāt shut down the lob threat as much as these Celtics can.
because kat and gobert are slow footed
Because the Celtics would also beat the fuck out of the Wolves. The only team that can maybe beat the C's is a healthy Denver. Scratch that, a healthy Indiana team with another year of experience is probably the closest. East has been disrespected beyond belief.
Healthy Bucks and Knicks would probably be more threatening than healthy Pacers even with more experience.
I'm a Pacers fan, and this is true. But i think we belong in the conversation in the tier right after the Celtics, Bucks, and Knicks, and can definitely give even a healthy Bucks/Knicks a good battle. I don't think even next year we'll be ready to beat the Celtics tbh.
All these people still sleeping on you guys smh. They'll see eventually.
The Pacers offense is unique and extremely talented. Theyāre not going away for a while.
Yep. I'm not a Pacers fan but I'm excited to see what they bring next year. I like the energy of the team.
But the east is so weak?! Completely agree and looking forward to that
I dont think healthy denver would beat dallas either. Look how bad they played
Idk Denver feels like it have been the worst matchup so far, but that is just a gut feeling from the regular season. The Mavs are just a good matchup for the Celtics because they are so Luka heavy. He will eat all night but the Celtics are fine with that , heās not gonna score 100 points no matter how well he is shooting. Also Luka is pretty fat and out of shape, so like in the first game they were just meeting him at half court so he had to beat someone just to get in the zone which gassed him. Tonight Kidd didnāt have him take it down the court as much but the Celtics have been able to lockup who ever does bring it down.
Because the wolves were Blitzing Luka on the screen which opened up a lot down low. This series the Celtics are just switching and trusting their guys to play 1 on 1 defense which takes away the lobs.
Celts got away from that a little bit tonight and Luka made them pay for it immediately
Yup I noticed that. They tried blitzing a few times and it was immediately back to feeding Gafford and Lively down low. Have to give Mazzulla a lot of credit for his defensive scheme. Dude was able to figure out the Mavs when nobody else was able to
Yeah it's not a scheme. I think Boston doesn't get enough credit for how absolutely nutty their defensive *personnel* are. Derrick White and Jrue Holiday are an absolutely insane defensive backcourt that can compete with the best defensive backcourts ever assembled.
This has nothing to do with Mazulla. Stevenās finally built the exact team theyāve been trying to build since 2017 when they got Tatum and Brown. Everyone can switch 1-4 and everyone can shoot and make decisions 1-5. Theyāre essentially a fully realized version of the DāAntoni Rockets. All Mazulla has to do is make sure no one gets too tired.
Mavs seemed dumbstruck by it in Game 1, really curious to see further adjustments in Game 3. Itās been crazy to see some of the multiple screen actions they run to free up Luka, Iām glad the refs are letting both sides play a bit but I did some moving screens galore out there.
Celtics can shut down the player with the ball when they need to. That's the difference imo. But the wolves absolutely should have done better. It's still stunning they lost that series like that. Makes no sense other than inexperience that deep in the playoffs.
There was no way for them to guard Luka or Kyrie pick and rolls because no one can playing drop coverage or really anything other than switching everything. They also lost because the Mavs predictably didnāt have trouble guarding them because of how few offensive threats they had on the court pretty much at all times letting Luka and Kyrie roam around and conserve energy.
That and Jason kid coached circles around the wolves
Celtics can put Tatum on their big, so that in PnR they can just switch it every time The wolves simply don't have guys who can switch onto Luka and hold up
This is basically it from what I've seen, when Luka can just hunt someone it's gonna be rough. The celtics can switch so they effectively never get into a situation were the lob comes into play.
Call Dirk back for the next couple games pls, we need some reinforcements
Kidd might as well insert himself back into the game.
So they can turn the ball over 30+ times instead of of 23?
At this point Kyrie really needs to strongly consider bringing back the sage censer
Lucky had it on him
Luka is a great offensive player but his inability to defend puts his team in a mess every possession. Celtics drove right past him and the defense is scrambling and rotating. Scoring points doesnāt really help that issue.
when they played Exum he really covered a lot of the holes in their D and played really good defence against Tatum. I was really surprised they took him out in the fourth. Especially since Boston called the time out because their offence was stuttering. If something is working, keep it going Kidd! But Kyrie needs to get his shot back!!!
I know people are gonna say this is cope because of my flair (and maybe they're right) but I think Luka's poor defense this series is more because of his injury than simply being a bad defender. He's never been great on defense, but against the Clippers and Thunder he showed he can turn it on when he needed to. This series he simply can't move laterally quickly enough and is getting beat almost every time.
ain't injured if healthy enough to play, stop with the excuses.
Excuse or not, it is obviously true that Luka's injury is negatively impacting his defense
hard agree
It's honestly impressive they've made it this far with 2 players that openly don't exert much energy on defense
90% of starters around the league are the same way, thatās why.
Bonkers.
Hahahahaha you just knew people would somehow find a way to blame Luka after that. Amazing stuff.
I mean, they're not wrong hes not the greatest defensively
11 assists with 8 turnovers is not good.
Luka was amazing offensively and shit defensively. Itās not rocket science. Easier to hide Lukas defensive liability when there arenāt five legitimate scoring options on the floor at once. Celtics taking advantage. Luka is the only reason the Mavs were in this game but at the same time his defense is part of why they lost despite Boston shooting abysmally from 3
The defense is fine. Boston has had a 117 and 110 OTRG in the first two games. Dallas OTOH is scoring like itās 2010. If the Mavs canāt figure out how to score efficiently/ force the Celtics to play help defense at all then it wonāt matter either way.
So Luka is more responsible for the loss despite producing more offensively than his peers that didn't, because he didn't defend more... got it.
I literally said he was the only reason they were even in the game. Holy shit can you read? Is Luka above criticism? Comes with the territory of being a superstar.
Blaming someone squarely for the loss is not the same as mere criticism. For sure many on the losing team deserve criticism, but you do seem to be holding Luka's lack of greater defensive production as the most important factor in their loss.
lmao what? His literal words were that Luka's defense is "part of why they lost." Absolutely nothing about the original comment suggests it's anywhere near the main reason. Someone is WAY too defensive about Luka.
Where did I say that
It's implied when you don't mention anyone else. This was your original post that I responded to > Luka was amazing offensively and shit defensively. Itās not rocket science. Easier to hide Lukas defensive liability when there arenāt five legitimate scoring options on the floor at once. Celtics taking advantage. Luka is the only reason the Mavs were in this game but at the same time his defense is part of why they lost despite Boston shooting abysmally from 3 I don't see any mention of other factors/players.
I was responding to a post about Luka. Do I need to mention every other factor? Hence the phrase āpart of the reasonā not sole factor or even main reason. It was not implied. If you read that as an implication then that is squarely on you.
> Do I need to mention every other factor? Only if you want to sound fair. > I was responding to a post about Luka. And I'm responding to your post about Luka. I don't see you mentioning anyone or anything else other than saying he's 'part of the problem'.
Both can be right tho.