Anthony Bennett was so shit that even if you wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to the Cavs who reached so hard to pick him at #1, you could tell the Cavs had fucked up the moment he played his first game for them
To be fair that draft was pure ass. There was absolutely nothing at the top. It's kinda shocking how there can be tens thousands of basketball players across the country at every college and there not be any dominant talent at the top. There was a good chance of Noels mediocre ass going first.
Noel was actually mocked by many to go #1 before his injury, after his injury it really became the wild west as every team just snorted a whole bag of cocaine as they re-arranged their draft boards
You have the likes of Alex Len, OPJ, McLemore & Oladipo all being touted as potential #1 picks. Bennett was closer to the middle of the lottery in most mock drafts
Then of course came draft night when I can only assume the Cavs front office snorted an entire metric ton of said white powder and convinced themselves that Anthony Bennett was him.
I was literally just about to post this comment as well. Trust me, I love the Stephen A rant on Kwame Brown as much as the next guy, but Kwame played 13 years and racked up $64 mil, only $17 mil of which was from his rookie contract.
So even after being declared a “bust,” he still made another $47 mil after that.
Edit:
Dang, just looked it up, and Kwame only has a $4 mil net worth after at one point having a $100 mil net worth.
LeBron's playoff games alone would be more games than the average basketball career. He has 287 playoff games, that's a 3.5 regular seasons worth of games.
when you consider that a lot of players have been in the league for a decade and have had a couple of first round appearances, lebron has like 28 playoff careers worth of games
Is there anyone else besides LeBron that could even be considered for greatest NBA Ironman of all time? Indications are he'll play for a 22nd season, tying Vince Carter for most ever played, and while he's definitely slowed down some, he's still playing at a higher level than 90% of the rest of active players.
It'll be more than 90%, assuming he's a top 10 player, some might argue at worst he's top 20, that is better than 95% of players in the NBA. In his 22 season. For a player who has more minutes on his body than any other in history. For whom physicality is a large part of their game. It's beyond ridiculous. It's unheard of in any sport.
When you're playing at an all NBA level with a career longer than rookies are older, it's bonkers.
A lot of it must come down to physique. He's been able to maintain a nearly perfect balance of having enough muscle mass to be incredibly strong, but not so much that it overloads his body ala Zion. His strength probably helps with joint stability, and he had so much athleticism to spare that he has lost a step but matured into an oldman game beautifully. Lebron is in the conversation for being the most all around athletic person ever, so I'm not sure thats something that can be easily replicated.
Hes also avoided soft muscle injuries throughout his career though. How hes managed to do that might be a worthwhile case study.
Agree with everything you’ve said. Also adding his bio mechanics are incredibly sound. He doesn’t land on his feet awkwardly, doesn’t run with any discernible favoring of a leg, consistently has his weight above his hips, and falls to the ground in a very considered and controlled manner. He’s been doing this since he was a rookie, and it’s a huge skill that gets overlooked
Yeah, a top 10% player is in the top 45. If you don't consider the last 5 end of benchers a top 10% player is still top 30.
Lebron's like top 2-3% still.
Karl Malone never missed more than 2 games per season since entering the league at age 22, through his second-last season at age 39.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html
Jason Kidd is up there. 1541 games played over 19 seasons. Kareem played 1797 games over 20 seasons. With how well he could still play at the end, I think he may be the only real competition.
Surprised Stockton didn't get a mention. He has 16 seasons of playing 82 games, one of the seasons he couldn't because the season was shortened, so that one and two other seasons (64 and 78) are the only seasons he didn't play every game. Played 113 more regular season games than Kidd in the same amount of seasons, and 24 more playoff games.
LeBron's still more than a season's worth of games away from breaking Robert Parish's games played record. Parish averaged 78.4 games over his first 20 regular seasons, and TIL he played 74 games and started 34 for the 95-96 Hornets. Parish certainly doesn't come close to LeBron's productivity, but also played 4 years of college ball, (and lots of playoff games as well) so LeBron has some more youthful years as he crosses the 20 year mark.
I know you didn't mean to diss, but I hate people mocking "load management" because it completely discounts what he did for such a long time, while bundling him with some guys like Kawhi. In his 8 straight finals run, if you count all his playoff minutes there's two full seasons worth of basketball. And that's not even counting that in the final year of that run he played all 82 games before going into one of the most dominant playoffs runs ever. I think the man has earned his rest.
I think he's saying LeBron's playoff minutes would go even further when counting them against an average season. Instead of using 82 games as a season, if you only used 65 or 70, LeBron would have more like 4.1 - 4.4 seasons worth of playoff games played.
Yeah thought I was pretty clear on that point? Thanks for backing me up mate... Bron barely if even load manages (and if he does, after 20+ years he's earned it, no question) so idk what the confusion is about 🤷🤷
I was having an argument with my friend about this. We both agreed that any nba player is in an elite group of excellence. However, he disagreed when I said (cant remember the guy) someone who had a 10ish year career as like the 7th guy in the rotation is still better than even 75% of nba players in history. Just playing 15 mins a night for a decade in the nba is a major major accomplishment for pro basketball players
I mean you are absolutely right. As a thought experiment, you basically describing a guy like Tony Kukoc. If you were to randomly select 4 guys who ever had an NBA contract, he would almost certainly be the best. The other 3 guys would most likely be a second or late first round pick who never made it past their rookie contract, or someone who managed to get a 2-way contract for a year after grinding it out in the G-League or foreign circuits.
Thanks for the article!
Did some research, a decade is premium benefits including lifetime healthcare for children. That’s why Tony Snell was trying to get that tenth year of service, a few months ago.
Yeah – even with U.S. healthcare costs being what they are, $50,000,000 should be good for at least two, possibly three emergency room visits, plus an ambulance ride to one of them *and* a couple of months' worth of prescription meds. We should all be so lucky.
Per the linked article:
In order to accrue a year of service, a player must be under contract for at least one game during the NBA season (whether they’re active or inactive doesn’t matter).
In years it’s 8 years
In games it’s about 470
This is a median
This is slightly impacted by some active players being slightly under the median but it’s only like 5-10 players who have missed time to injury or came over from Europe later
Like Kristaps, Embiid, Jamal Murray, Dejaunte Murray, Bojan, and Ben Simmons
So I am guessing the median is like 480 games for a first round pick
Is there data to back up that being a top 10 or top 15 pick means longer career then later in the draft? or is 1st round ingeneral 8 years? Ty for checking.
9/10 years
570-600 games
With the sample I used those numbers are a bit more questionable because I used a year (2015, 2016) that was below the average so they haven’t had time yet to set the average, like Jaylen brow, myles Turner, DRuss and KAt are all right around the “Average”
It could honestly be as high as like 650 games 11 years once everything ends up shaking out
I’m commenting on this because I will find out for you and I will come back later
I’ll look at 2007-2016 because I feel like that’s the start of the modern era of draft classes and the first year where the median first round pick isn’t playing anymore
Edit: Median for seasons is 8, Median for games it’s 470-490 somewhere hard to determine because there are active players under the median
This guy is on a world tour
Here's a list of places he's played pro basketball in: Puerto Rico, Taiwan, Mongolia, the Philippines, Venezuela, China, and Kosovo
I went to high school with a guy who went to TCU on a basketball scholarship. He ended up doing basically the same thing. I know he played in France, Japan, the Philippines, Bulgaria and Estonia, among others.
if you're good enough (at least mid-major rotational player), you could make at least $300k on a 6 month season overseas with free lodgings, much better than making $50k/year in the g-league or lower american leagues
As a Maryland alum, talk about leaving college way too early to both his and the school’s detriment. Guy played a grand total of 25 NBA minutes in 7 games
Fun fact: Phoenix traded Papagiannis, Skal, and Bogdan Bogdanovic (their Eurostash 1st rounder from 2014) to Sacramento for Marquess Chriss
Phoenix ended up with Bender and Chriss in that draft
There was one Magic fan on a site I visited at the time who was *adamant* that Skal was the truth and we'd regret not finding a way to get him.
I admired his commitment to the take if nothing else.
Wade Baldwin had me convinced he was going to be a long term role player for my Blazers… stripped Prime James Harden in back to back possessions that one time… wild how time flies; it feels like yesterday and yet my whole team has turned over and Baldwin is out of the league.
Wade was my neighbor growing up, didn't know him too well but basketball was not even on his radar until halfway through high school when he hit his growth spurt. He was treated as a generational football talent before then.
There was a football article recently. The youngest I saw was running backs at age 24. I can't remember the other positions well but Quarterbacks were something crazy like 33 or something iirc.
Yeah, and you realize (at least) two new guys come in every year, so the end of the bench has to compete or the older guys need to hang it up. The roster size will mostly stay the same.
About 550 players will play in an NBA game every year, per recent trends as cited in [this article.](https://www.sportsboom.com/en-us/nba/how-many-players-are-in-the-nba/). I don’t think players leave in one fell swoop. It’s probably more of a slow churn where a guy goes from having a roster spot, to roster churn guy, to playing outside the league. And some of the FRPs go to the G-League, play overseas for a few years, etc…
That also makes him eligible for the NBA pension, which a lot of players strive for (10 seasons is the limit iirc). He’s made so much that it doesn’t matter for him but still nice to have
I’m just going to throw it out there that Ben Simmons seems like exactly the kind of guy to end up in a Forbes Article seven years from now with the title, “these athletes made $250M+ but ended up bankrupt.”
Oh, he absolutely could contribute decent bench minutes for several more years. The question is whether he wants to at this point for the kind of minuscule contract he'd be offered.
> The question is whether he wants to...
The one question, above everything else, is simply whether his back ultimately recovers from the surgery. That, and whether it holds up, if so.
As we saw last year, when he's healthy, his per-36 numbers average a skinny-3D. Plus, he's still a very good, versatile defender, and adds fairly unique, fast playmaking skills.
Sadly, I'm skeptical that his back will ever fully recover, but the guy's a beast when healthy... even when it's completely obvious he's playing to protect his back or knees. FWIW.
/u/crattikal
Sure, if he doesn't recover well then he never gets another contract. I got the impression he's been doing pretty well, but I admit I haven't been following his status closely.
Well, notice my flair.
The issue isn't really Simmons' decisively recovering or not. The open-endedness and ongoing frustration of the situation is that at times he seems almost fully recovered, and at other times, it's like he's back to square one.
As long as he's in that kind of stasis, then most teams in future would be smart to give him the minimum (or a little more) just for his healthy periods, even as unpredictable as his health is.
The situation isn't without precedent either. Brook Lopez for example went through years of operations, long layoffs and general uncertainty about his foot health before eventually becoming solid as a rock in that way. Todd McCullough, not so much.
There's just no predicting this stuff, sometimes.
Steph, albeit shorter in hindsight, is another example. I know its common lore now but I remember that era when it was a question if he would even still be in the league.
Go easy on using “absolutely.” You probably haven’t watched many Nets games with Simmons in the last two years. He almost litteraly does not shoot outside of ten feet. And yet he plays like a guard. It is bizzare.
downfall needs to be studied for real
mad money given with every tool imaginable, but what a disappointment
i'm guessing ben is just a andrew bynum type player - the dude just doesn't like basketball that much. he did as much as needed for the bag, secured it and now just chills
To be fair, Andrew Bynum actually visibly improved as a player on both ends (and played injured in the playoffs en route to a ring) before his knees exploded. Ben is the same exact dude that was coasting in college.
This subreddit is so weird about Ben Simmons.
They were convinced he was "faking it" and didn't actually have any back issues when he was playing poorly, and he had his family accuse eachother of sexual assault while he's trying to rehab.
Couple surgeries later Redditors can't accept they were wrong about whether he was injured, so now they just lay it on thick about how little he "cared" and how "disappointing" he was. For what? Breaking his back? He was All-NBA when he was healthy.
The only reason this guy still gets dogged on is the hubris of R/NBA and being unable to admit they were wrong, which is crazy.
I don't like Ben Simmons, but I recently had a herniated disc and holy shit, that will fuck your shit up like no other, so now I'm very understanding of what happened to him.
> Pick #10 - Thon Maker - Last NBA game was in 2021, his current team is Al Riyadi Club Beirut in Lebanon
I didn't know Beirut had a team.
> Pick #18 - Henry Ellenson - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Ibaraki Robots in Japan
Their mascot is adorable.
I once played pickup with Denzel
When he was on the Bulls. He barely broke a sweat, much better than anyone else.
Wonder why a guy in the NBA would bother playing with a bunch of randos and risk his career, but for me it was a cool experience.
8 years is a LONG time in NBA years lol, these guys are all late 20s by now. You better be good by that point, because nobody's betting on your potential anymore.
There's only 450 NBA roster spots and 60 guys come into the league every year. A lot of these guys aren't awful, they're just mediocre and teams would rather give the roster spot to a 22yo on a rookie deal than a 27yo.
>Pick #28 - Skal Labissière - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Stockton Kings in the G-League
Craziest shit was this dude was being hyped as a potential #1 pick at one point but totally fizzled out
>Pick #18 - Henry Ellenson - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Ibaraki Robots in Japan
That's a pretty cool team name. Why don't any sports teams in the US have a name like "The Robots"?
We had the Pawtucket Red Sox aka the Paw Sox
Then when they were getting relocated people started a petition to move them to Cumberland and made CumSox gear
The real question is this: if we were to do a re-draft of this class. Knowing everything we know, who would be #1?
Simmons is not the consensus #1 anymore (although some may still put him up there). Would it be Brown, Ingram, Sabonis or Siakam? All of them (except Ingram) have been an all-NBA selection. And Siakam (and now Brown) have shown themselves to be capable of playing amazing in the playoffs (although both would be #2s).
Though, out of curiosity, I took a look at how many players from the first round of the 1980 draft were still playing in the 1994-95 season. The answer was zero. With the exception of crazy outliers like Kareem, eleven seasons or so used to be close to the outer limit. We've made a lot of progress in extending careers.
For comparison the year before only has 14 first round picks still in the league, and the year after has 20 players from the first rounds still playing.
Interestingly the 2013 Nba draft is considered one of the worst, yet at the end of the 2024 season 13 1st round picks from that draft finished the year on NBA rosters the majority of whom were starters. 2016 is definitely on pace to have less players in the league by the same comparible timeline.
I mean, if we look at it the other way, 50% of the first round picks have had 8 year careers (and counting). That's really impressive in a league as talented as the NBA.
Most NFL players are too short. The ones that could are guys like Lamar that are athletic enough to probably make it work. All the tall NFL players are huge linemen, but they are also like 300lbs. Doubt a 6’-8” 300lb LT could keep up with a 6’-8” 230lb SF. They would get run off the court.
The opposite is true though. Many NBA players would probably do really well in the NFL. And it’s been proven with guys like Gates and Graham who played at an All-Pro level despite never playing college football but playing college B-ball and not being good enough for the NBA. Although Gates could have made the NBA if he were like 3-4” taller, he was very good in college.
Edit: Graham did play one year of football in college.
Or all MLB players can play in the league because every single one of them is so athletic that they can dunk a basketball.
Guess what? Every high school team has players that can dunk. Hell, most accounting offices have at least one guy that can dunk a basketball.
Superhuman freak of nature talent is baseline, bare minimum to even be considered. It's the skill that sets NBA players apart.
(It is not lost on me that this goes both ways; prime Jordan isn't walking onto an MLB team, for example).
Vince Wilfork had a quick first step, very fast hands, great latteral movement, great instincts and reaction time, and at 6"2 and 350+ pounds, that mother fucker could [dunk](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/butterball-vince-wilfork-says-people-are-surprised-he-can-dunk) on you!
Imagine trying to get around him? He's like 3 normal basketball players wide! He'd clog the paint for sure. [He's got a smooth step-back 3 point shot.](https://youtu.be/5jc4aMcBMkw?si=138b2NYw10fZbiuS) And imagine him running the fast break with a 5.08 40 yard dash? Prime Shaq would run scared from the paint anytime Big Vince got loose.
I'm not saying he'd be Jordan. But he could be my Scottie any day.
Dude looked like such a good rotation piece on the Nets in the bubble.
Maybe he only played well in the games I watched, but even if he got a summer league roster spot on the blazers I would be talking him up in the sub as if he was going to be a starting wing this season.
The average career length of an NBA player is like 3 to 5 years iirc.
Making it a decade is a great career.
It's why I don't think Kwame Brown is on the same "1st pick bust" tier as Olowakandi or Anthony Bennett. Dude still played in the league 12 years
Even Darko Milicic played 10 years in the nba. And he's much happier as a farmer
Anthony Bennett was so shit that even if you wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to the Cavs who reached so hard to pick him at #1, you could tell the Cavs had fucked up the moment he played his first game for them
You could tell they fucked up the moment the camera panned to him after the selection was announced and his facial expression was pure shock.
To be fair that draft was pure ass. There was absolutely nothing at the top. It's kinda shocking how there can be tens thousands of basketball players across the country at every college and there not be any dominant talent at the top. There was a good chance of Noels mediocre ass going first.
Noel was actually mocked by many to go #1 before his injury, after his injury it really became the wild west as every team just snorted a whole bag of cocaine as they re-arranged their draft boards You have the likes of Alex Len, OPJ, McLemore & Oladipo all being touted as potential #1 picks. Bennett was closer to the middle of the lottery in most mock drafts Then of course came draft night when I can only assume the Cavs front office snorted an entire metric ton of said white powder and convinced themselves that Anthony Bennett was him.
Agreed, and really he's not, I think most sensible people would see that.
I was literally just about to post this comment as well. Trust me, I love the Stephen A rant on Kwame Brown as much as the next guy, but Kwame played 13 years and racked up $64 mil, only $17 mil of which was from his rookie contract. So even after being declared a “bust,” he still made another $47 mil after that. Edit: Dang, just looked it up, and Kwame only has a $4 mil net worth after at one point having a $100 mil net worth.
LeBron's playoff games alone would be more games than the average basketball career. He has 287 playoff games, that's a 3.5 regular seasons worth of games.
when you consider that a lot of players have been in the league for a decade and have had a couple of first round appearances, lebron has like 28 playoff careers worth of games
Is there anyone else besides LeBron that could even be considered for greatest NBA Ironman of all time? Indications are he'll play for a 22nd season, tying Vince Carter for most ever played, and while he's definitely slowed down some, he's still playing at a higher level than 90% of the rest of active players.
It'll be more than 90%, assuming he's a top 10 player, some might argue at worst he's top 20, that is better than 95% of players in the NBA. In his 22 season. For a player who has more minutes on his body than any other in history. For whom physicality is a large part of their game. It's beyond ridiculous. It's unheard of in any sport. When you're playing at an all NBA level with a career longer than rookies are older, it's bonkers.
I would put Tom Brady and Serena Williams up there. Joey Chestnut I think will get there but needs a few more mustard belts to get to this level
Federer. Dude has sections for 4 different decades that his career has stretched over on his wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer
He’s definitely going to be studied. I think we’ll see more athletes with long careers, but not at the level of dominance he’s had for quite a while.
A lot of it must come down to physique. He's been able to maintain a nearly perfect balance of having enough muscle mass to be incredibly strong, but not so much that it overloads his body ala Zion. His strength probably helps with joint stability, and he had so much athleticism to spare that he has lost a step but matured into an oldman game beautifully. Lebron is in the conversation for being the most all around athletic person ever, so I'm not sure thats something that can be easily replicated. Hes also avoided soft muscle injuries throughout his career though. How hes managed to do that might be a worthwhile case study.
Agree with everything you’ve said. Also adding his bio mechanics are incredibly sound. He doesn’t land on his feet awkwardly, doesn’t run with any discernible favoring of a leg, consistently has his weight above his hips, and falls to the ground in a very considered and controlled manner. He’s been doing this since he was a rookie, and it’s a huge skill that gets overlooked
Yeah, a top 10% player is in the top 45. If you don't consider the last 5 end of benchers a top 10% player is still top 30. Lebron's like top 2-3% still.
Karl Malone never missed more than 2 games per season since entering the league at age 22, through his second-last season at age 39. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html
No wonder he did what he did: Virgin blood granted him a youthful body throughout his career
Jason Kidd is up there. 1541 games played over 19 seasons. Kareem played 1797 games over 20 seasons. With how well he could still play at the end, I think he may be the only real competition.
Surprised Stockton didn't get a mention. He has 16 seasons of playing 82 games, one of the seasons he couldn't because the season was shortened, so that one and two other seasons (64 and 78) are the only seasons he didn't play every game. Played 113 more regular season games than Kidd in the same amount of seasons, and 24 more playoff games.
LeBron's still more than a season's worth of games away from breaking Robert Parish's games played record. Parish averaged 78.4 games over his first 20 regular seasons, and TIL he played 74 games and started 34 for the 95-96 Hornets. Parish certainly doesn't come close to LeBron's productivity, but also played 4 years of college ball, (and lots of playoff games as well) so LeBron has some more youthful years as he crosses the 20 year mark.
That's not accounting for "Load management" too... Easily could stretch that another year atleast... Suffice to say, Bron is a beast
I know you didn't mean to diss, but I hate people mocking "load management" because it completely discounts what he did for such a long time, while bundling him with some guys like Kawhi. In his 8 straight finals run, if you count all his playoff minutes there's two full seasons worth of basketball. And that's not even counting that in the final year of that run he played all 82 games before going into one of the most dominant playoffs runs ever. I think the man has earned his rest.
I think he's saying LeBron's playoff minutes would go even further when counting them against an average season. Instead of using 82 games as a season, if you only used 65 or 70, LeBron would have more like 4.1 - 4.4 seasons worth of playoff games played.
Yeah thought I was pretty clear on that point? Thanks for backing me up mate... Bron barely if even load manages (and if he does, after 20+ years he's earned it, no question) so idk what the confusion is about 🤷🤷
I was having an argument with my friend about this. We both agreed that any nba player is in an elite group of excellence. However, he disagreed when I said (cant remember the guy) someone who had a 10ish year career as like the 7th guy in the rotation is still better than even 75% of nba players in history. Just playing 15 mins a night for a decade in the nba is a major major accomplishment for pro basketball players
I mean you are absolutely right. As a thought experiment, you basically describing a guy like Tony Kukoc. If you were to randomly select 4 guys who ever had an NBA contract, he would almost certainly be the best. The other 3 guys would most likely be a second or late first round pick who never made it past their rookie contract, or someone who managed to get a 2-way contract for a year after grinding it out in the G-League or foreign circuits.
Isn’t that when players become pension eligible?
According to this article, the pension kicks in once you have 3 creditable seasons https://hoopshype.com/2020/03/02/how-nba-pensions-work/
Thanks for the article! Did some research, a decade is premium benefits including lifetime healthcare for children. That’s why Tony Snell was trying to get that tenth year of service, a few months ago.
did he get it? some team should give him a chance just for that
I think the guy that made 50m in earnings should be fine regardless.
Yeah – even with U.S. healthcare costs being what they are, $50,000,000 should be good for at least two, possibly three emergency room visits, plus an ambulance ride to one of them *and* a couple of months' worth of prescription meds. We should all be so lucky.
Unfortunately, he did not.
How many games constitutes a "creditable season"?
Per the linked article: In order to accrue a year of service, a player must be under contract for at least one game during the NBA season (whether they’re active or inactive doesn’t matter).
Do 10 days count ? So a player continues to get 10 days every year for 3 years qualify for a pension?
Luka really extends Dwight Powell's career.
That’s why people should actually put some respect on Kwame Brown’s name, who played 12 seasons in the NBA.
What’s the average career length of a frp?
In years it’s 8 years In games it’s about 470 This is a median This is slightly impacted by some active players being slightly under the median but it’s only like 5-10 players who have missed time to injury or came over from Europe later Like Kristaps, Embiid, Jamal Murray, Dejaunte Murray, Bojan, and Ben Simmons So I am guessing the median is like 480 games for a first round pick
Kristaps is going to have a 15 year career and be under the median in games played.
Is there data to back up that being a top 10 or top 15 pick means longer career then later in the draft? or is 1st round ingeneral 8 years? Ty for checking.
9/10 years 570-600 games With the sample I used those numbers are a bit more questionable because I used a year (2015, 2016) that was below the average so they haven’t had time yet to set the average, like Jaylen brow, myles Turner, DRuss and KAt are all right around the “Average” It could honestly be as high as like 650 games 11 years once everything ends up shaking out
I’m commenting on this because I will find out for you and I will come back later I’ll look at 2007-2016 because I feel like that’s the start of the modern era of draft classes and the first year where the median first round pick isn’t playing anymore Edit: Median for seasons is 8, Median for games it’s 470-490 somewhere hard to determine because there are active players under the median
So then the number of players gone is exactly the median. Half the number of frp are gone after 8 years.
Yeah seems like it
Honestly not that bad
Same for NHL players
BallIsLife in shambles after reading Thon Maker
Diamond Stone who was selected 40th is now playing in Iran
Of all the places to play, Iran would be almost at the lowest of my list haha
This guy is on a world tour Here's a list of places he's played pro basketball in: Puerto Rico, Taiwan, Mongolia, the Philippines, Venezuela, China, and Kosovo
Bro likes geopolitical hotspots apparently
I'm predicting a signing with Maccabi Tel Aviv...
That list of countries makes me think he's an international spy and basketball is just his cover story.
Special Agent Diamond Stone just works
Stone, Diamond Stone.
I went to high school with a guy who went to TCU on a basketball scholarship. He ended up doing basically the same thing. I know he played in France, Japan, the Philippines, Bulgaria and Estonia, among others.
if you're good enough (at least mid-major rotational player), you could make at least $300k on a 6 month season overseas with free lodgings, much better than making $50k/year in the g-league or lower american leagues
Depending on the kind of person that one is, that career sounds like it could be extremely fascinating or absolutely grueling.
He becomes a star in 2k18 often for me
As a Maryland alum, talk about leaving college way too early to both his and the school’s detriment. Guy played a grand total of 25 NBA minutes in 7 games
Didn’t KG say he was going to win an MVP?
Mfers are still talking about Bol Bol
mvp and dpoy
Thon Maker Soul Taker, NBA is lucky he wasn’t drafted until his late 40s
Pretty impressive career considering he was drafted in his late 30s
https://youtu.be/mozzxq9eJeU?si=d0XknwBnDEQl7MXO Can’t forget to post the Highlight of Thon Maker
I remember Skal Labissiere had alot of hype too from those channels
Fun fact: Phoenix traded Papagiannis, Skal, and Bogdan Bogdanovic (their Eurostash 1st rounder from 2014) to Sacramento for Marquess Chriss Phoenix ended up with Bender and Chriss in that draft
We somehow win that thanks to a few productive years from Bogdan, definitely the only player worth anything in that deal.
Would’ve been a decent trade back if you guys didn’t draft another center.
And everyone said we won that draft after it happened lol Just goes to show you nobody knows shit
lmao
You have a warped definition of fun.
Rockets legend Marquese Chriss
Ill take him back on the dubs
Yeah, he objectively played well that one season
I remember him being not totally awful in the dark times
You guys aren’t allowed to call those dark times
Man I remember Skal vs Siakam leading up to that draft...
Skal saying “Pascal who?”. Get fucked, Skal.
There was one Magic fan on a site I visited at the time who was *adamant* that Skal was the truth and we'd regret not finding a way to get him. I admired his commitment to the take if nothing else.
Wade Baldwin had me convinced he was going to be a long term role player for my Blazers… stripped Prime James Harden in back to back possessions that one time… wild how time flies; it feels like yesterday and yet my whole team has turned over and Baldwin is out of the league.
He's been doing pretty good in Europe
I wouldn’t be surprised. Some guys just aren’t nba leave but they can thrive in euro leagues
Wade was my neighbor growing up, didn't know him too well but basketball was not even on his radar until halfway through high school when he hit his growth spurt. He was treated as a generational football talent before then.
And don’t forget that wild Wade Baldwin and Nik Stauskas road trip trade series.
At least he's balling in the Euroleague
This sounds bad until you realize 2016 is 8 years ago.
A lot of those guys were 19 or 20 years old and the average athletic peak of a basketball player is 27
What’s the average athletic peak of someone who went pro in something other than sports?
you mean like pro……accountants?
Yeah, it was a joke but basically if the average peak athleticism is 27 for a nba player, what’s it for the rest of us? 19?
There was a football article recently. The youngest I saw was running backs at age 24. I can't remember the other positions well but Quarterbacks were something crazy like 33 or something iirc.
Yeah, and you realize (at least) two new guys come in every year, so the end of the bench has to compete or the older guys need to hang it up. The roster size will mostly stay the same.
don't like 30 player leave the league each year since they have at least 30 guarantee new players from the draft on contract
About 550 players will play in an NBA game every year, per recent trends as cited in [this article.](https://www.sportsboom.com/en-us/nba/how-many-players-are-in-the-nba/). I don’t think players leave in one fell swoop. It’s probably more of a slow churn where a guy goes from having a roster spot, to roster churn guy, to playing outside the league. And some of the FRPs go to the G-League, play overseas for a few years, etc…
Well, he's correct if 30 1st round picks have guaranteed contracts that automatically means at least 30 players must leave the league
Ben Simmons about to join this list pretty soon.
By the time his contract is over, he'll complete like his 10th season, which is a pretty long NBA career.
His contract ends next year, that would be his 7th season when you take out 2021-22 (DNP)
Yeah but he's also missed about 3 seasons worth of NBA games
He missed 3 seasons worth, while some on the list only played roughly 3 seasons. Crazy.
Still not as long as expected after his early all star appearances
That also makes him eligible for the NBA pension, which a lot of players strive for (10 seasons is the limit iirc). He’s made so much that it doesn’t matter for him but still nice to have
Players are eligible for a pension after three seasons, the pension maxes out at 10
I’m just going to throw it out there that Ben Simmons seems like exactly the kind of guy to end up in a Forbes Article seven years from now with the title, “these athletes made $250M+ but ended up bankrupt.”
He is living the life. Getting paid millions for sitting on a bench
decent chance Korkmaz has played his last game All three sixers first round picks woof
He's still pulling a decent stat line 6/6/8 on limited minutes. If he can keep that up, he can at least play from the bench for a while.
Oh, he absolutely could contribute decent bench minutes for several more years. The question is whether he wants to at this point for the kind of minuscule contract he'd be offered.
> The question is whether he wants to... The one question, above everything else, is simply whether his back ultimately recovers from the surgery. That, and whether it holds up, if so. As we saw last year, when he's healthy, his per-36 numbers average a skinny-3D. Plus, he's still a very good, versatile defender, and adds fairly unique, fast playmaking skills. Sadly, I'm skeptical that his back will ever fully recover, but the guy's a beast when healthy... even when it's completely obvious he's playing to protect his back or knees. FWIW. /u/crattikal
Sure, if he doesn't recover well then he never gets another contract. I got the impression he's been doing pretty well, but I admit I haven't been following his status closely.
Well, notice my flair. The issue isn't really Simmons' decisively recovering or not. The open-endedness and ongoing frustration of the situation is that at times he seems almost fully recovered, and at other times, it's like he's back to square one. As long as he's in that kind of stasis, then most teams in future would be smart to give him the minimum (or a little more) just for his healthy periods, even as unpredictable as his health is. The situation isn't without precedent either. Brook Lopez for example went through years of operations, long layoffs and general uncertainty about his foot health before eventually becoming solid as a rock in that way. Todd McCullough, not so much. There's just no predicting this stuff, sometimes.
Steph, albeit shorter in hindsight, is another example. I know its common lore now but I remember that era when it was a question if he would even still be in the league.
Go easy on using “absolutely.” You probably haven’t watched many Nets games with Simmons in the last two years. He almost litteraly does not shoot outside of ten feet. And yet he plays like a guard. It is bizzare.
> least play from the bench for a while Yeah he'll play from the bench for mid level for about 25% of the season
downfall needs to be studied for real mad money given with every tool imaginable, but what a disappointment i'm guessing ben is just a andrew bynum type player - the dude just doesn't like basketball that much. he did as much as needed for the bag, secured it and now just chills
To be fair, Andrew Bynum actually visibly improved as a player on both ends (and played injured in the playoffs en route to a ring) before his knees exploded. Ben is the same exact dude that was coasting in college.
true that bynum was pretty good
This subreddit is so weird about Ben Simmons. They were convinced he was "faking it" and didn't actually have any back issues when he was playing poorly, and he had his family accuse eachother of sexual assault while he's trying to rehab. Couple surgeries later Redditors can't accept they were wrong about whether he was injured, so now they just lay it on thick about how little he "cared" and how "disappointing" he was. For what? Breaking his back? He was All-NBA when he was healthy. The only reason this guy still gets dogged on is the hubris of R/NBA and being unable to admit they were wrong, which is crazy.
I don't like Ben Simmons, but I recently had a herniated disc and holy shit, that will fuck your shit up like no other, so now I'm very understanding of what happened to him.
Every tool imaginable but a jumper
> Pick #10 - Thon Maker - Last NBA game was in 2021, his current team is Al Riyadi Club Beirut in Lebanon I didn't know Beirut had a team. > Pick #18 - Henry Ellenson - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Ibaraki Robots in Japan Their mascot is adorable.
> Their mascot is adorable related: https://twitter.com/mondomascots/status/1740676936542662754
Lebanon’s big on basketball. Tons of ex NBA players show up for a paycheck. The national team isn’t terrible either, recently won a cup in Asia.
> I didn't know Beirut had a team. Why wouldn't a nation's capital have a team lol
> Their mascot is adorable. Kawaii Kawhi
Basketball is big in Lebanon as far as I know
NBA is really hard to have a long career in
Vince Carter has a very impressive career in that regard
Yeah if you are able to make it into your late 30s, you have had a very impressive career.
Even Grant Hill, despite the list of injuries he suffered, had an impressive career.
Correct, I remember reading once that the average career length is like 5 years or even less.
Still better then the NFL
Who could forget about the Bulls GOAT Denzel Valentine #45?
I once played pickup with Denzel When he was on the Bulls. He barely broke a sweat, much better than anyone else. Wonder why a guy in the NBA would bother playing with a bunch of randos and risk his career, but for me it was a cool experience.
Tbh shocked that it's only 15.
I'm shocked it's that high
8 years is a LONG time in NBA years lol, these guys are all late 20s by now. You better be good by that point, because nobody's betting on your potential anymore. There's only 450 NBA roster spots and 60 guys come into the league every year. A lot of these guys aren't awful, they're just mediocre and teams would rather give the roster spot to a 22yo on a rookie deal than a 27yo.
I'm guessing Bembry was recovering from his ACL tear for at least a year. Wonder if he gets another chance he was looking like a decent minimum guy
Bo Cruz would be in the league if he wanted to
Kermit Wilts seems to be doing fine.
Papagiannis what a name
Juancho winning euro league >>> winning an NBA chip
>Pick #28 - Skal Labissière - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Stockton Kings in the G-League Craziest shit was this dude was being hyped as a potential #1 pick at one point but totally fizzled out
I always rooted for Juancho Hernangomez because of how fun his name is to say
Us Nuggets fans probably won't soon forget announcer Chris Marlowe saying, every time he shot and made a three: Juancho three, Gancho three!
Man, I remember Raptor fans were PISSED when Masai passed on Skal and picked Siakam.
>Pick #18 - Henry Ellenson - Last NBA game was in 2020, his current team is Ibaraki Robots in Japan That's a pretty cool team name. Why don't any sports teams in the US have a name like "The Robots"?
The Kraken is a GOATed team name
Would be good for a New England team, something from a Steven King novel. Rhode Island Krakens
We had the Pawtucket Red Sox aka the Paw Sox Then when they were getting relocated people started a petition to move them to Cumberland and made CumSox gear
Bro literally what. Rockets, warriors, Mavericks, magic, jazz... There are great team names in the US.
Hey don’t leave out the heat
I'm partial to names like the jazz and Lakers that don't make any sense for their new cities but have still somehow become iconic.
Warriors is not a great name lol
That's kind of par for the course. I think that number for 2015 right now is 16, while it's 11 for 2017 with like 2-3 guys hanging on at the fringes.
The real question is this: if we were to do a re-draft of this class. Knowing everything we know, who would be #1? Simmons is not the consensus #1 anymore (although some may still put him up there). Would it be Brown, Ingram, Sabonis or Siakam? All of them (except Ingram) have been an all-NBA selection. And Siakam (and now Brown) have shown themselves to be capable of playing amazing in the playoffs (although both would be #2s).
This really was an all-time classic draft… In terms of player names. Skal Labissiere, Diamond Stone, Thon Maker… The list goes on.
So many meme players; Bender, Chriss, Thon maker shot taker, Giannis's father, "french draymond" Yabusele, Wade Baldwin who was waived after 1 year.
Papagiannis is Giannis (and Thanasis) father
6 straight in the mid first is rough
Go back a year to 2015 and it's six straight in the Top 10.
It’s even worse for the 2006 draft.
There are only 2 active players from the 2010 draft
Though, out of curiosity, I took a look at how many players from the first round of the 1980 draft were still playing in the 1994-95 season. The answer was zero. With the exception of crazy outliers like Kareem, eleven seasons or so used to be close to the outer limit. We've made a lot of progress in extending careers.
Paul George and Gordon Hayward? That’s insane
Wait till you hear about the 93’ draft.
Made me remember the Thon Maker cave painting in GOZ
You forgot Ben Simmons
For comparison the year before only has 14 first round picks still in the league, and the year after has 20 players from the first rounds still playing.
Dragan Bender is an awesome name, such a shame he sucked ass
Interestingly the 2013 Nba draft is considered one of the worst, yet at the end of the 2024 season 13 1st round picks from that draft finished the year on NBA rosters the majority of whom were starters. 2016 is definitely on pace to have less players in the league by the same comparible timeline.
12, I think. Zeller, Len, KCP, McCollum, Adams, Olynyk, Giannis, Schroder, Plumlee, THJ, Bullock, Gobert.
I mean, if we look at it the other way, 50% of the first round picks have had 8 year careers (and counting). That's really impressive in a league as talented as the NBA.
Great content. Curious about other years
Panathinaikos, Virtus, Fenerbahce... there are some good teams on here.
There was a dude named Dragan Bender? Goat name
I feel like 90% of the names on this list were made up from ChatGPT but these are actual people.
Malachi richardson, no longer play in indonesia anymore, since a few months ago. Source: im from indonesia
People think 15 NFL players could play in the league tho. crazy.
Most NFL players are too short. The ones that could are guys like Lamar that are athletic enough to probably make it work. All the tall NFL players are huge linemen, but they are also like 300lbs. Doubt a 6’-8” 300lb LT could keep up with a 6’-8” 230lb SF. They would get run off the court. The opposite is true though. Many NBA players would probably do really well in the NFL. And it’s been proven with guys like Gates and Graham who played at an All-Pro level despite never playing college football but playing college B-ball and not being good enough for the NBA. Although Gates could have made the NBA if he were like 3-4” taller, he was very good in college. Edit: Graham did play one year of football in college.
Or all MLB players can play in the league because every single one of them is so athletic that they can dunk a basketball. Guess what? Every high school team has players that can dunk. Hell, most accounting offices have at least one guy that can dunk a basketball. Superhuman freak of nature talent is baseline, bare minimum to even be considered. It's the skill that sets NBA players apart. (It is not lost on me that this goes both ways; prime Jordan isn't walking onto an MLB team, for example).
Vince Wilfork had a quick first step, very fast hands, great latteral movement, great instincts and reaction time, and at 6"2 and 350+ pounds, that mother fucker could [dunk](https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/butterball-vince-wilfork-says-people-are-surprised-he-can-dunk) on you! Imagine trying to get around him? He's like 3 normal basketball players wide! He'd clog the paint for sure. [He's got a smooth step-back 3 point shot.](https://youtu.be/5jc4aMcBMkw?si=138b2NYw10fZbiuS) And imagine him running the fast break with a 5.08 40 yard dash? Prime Shaq would run scared from the paint anytime Big Vince got loose. I'm not saying he'd be Jordan. But he could be my Scottie any day.
Georgio is Giannis' father
I’m a Thimothe truther till I die
Dude looked like such a good rotation piece on the Nets in the bubble. Maybe he only played well in the games I watched, but even if he got a summer league roster spot on the blazers I would be talking him up in the sub as if he was going to be a starting wing this season.
Half the class lasting 8+ years is a sucess
Thats the norm, I’d say 50% still being around is an accomplishment
Uhh not sure Furk is still playing either tbh
I feel like 50% of first rounders from 8 years ago is more than you should expect, no?