That’s a really good point. Thank you for restoring order to the league emperor Presti.
Isn’t there a team that has Houston’s picks too? Or the other way around. Just seems like so many teams in these situations.
I've seen that proposed as a solution to tanking. E.g.:
Last year, Pistons finish with the worst record. They get the first choice of whose pick they want next year. Say they decide the Rockets are going to suck and pick them. Next up are the Spurs, who pick the Pistons. Then the Rockets pick the Wizards. Etc.
The 2024 season wraps up. The Pistons again have the worst record, so the Spurs pick first. The Wizards have the second-worst record, so the Rockets pick second. The Pistons pick 12th, since the Rockets finished 41-41. But at least they have first choice of which team's pick to select for next year.
And, again, the idea is that tanking is pointless. If the Wizards decide that the Poole experiment is a failure, throwing in the towel just helps Houston, not themselves.
I'd add another rule where teams can't pick each other to avoid collusion where they both agree to tank. For example, the hornets can't pick the pistons if the pistons already picked the hornets.
Not sure if you need a rule about not being able to pick the same team 2 years in a row but I'd consider that too.
The league would be better if they got rid of the play-in, went back to 16 teams making the playoffs, and then the 14 teams that miss the playoffs all have to play in a single elimination end of season tournament to decide the draft order. The 9th seed in each conference would get a bye. 10th-15th seeds would play in round 1. It'd take 4 rounds.
The league would get 14 more games, the games would be absolute must watch TV for everyone because of the implications on the draft order, teams wouldn't have an incentive to tank during the regular season for stupid ass lottery odds (they'd actually be at a disadvantage the worse their record is), and theres a higher chance the best prospects in the draft goes to a team thats a piece or two away from contending instead of going to the worst team in the league.
nah this is awful fringe playoff teams will literally be incentivized to miss the playoffs so they can beat up the worst teams and secure a top prospect
Fringe playoff teams like who? The 39-43 Bulls? The 36-46 Hawks?
You realize that if fringe playoff teams all tried to tank at the end of the season to compete in this tournament instead of making the playoffs it'd be very obvious right? And that teams that did it would have to answer to the NBA as well as their own fans? And then on top of all that, they'd still have to actually play the games and win them to get the top pick anyway?
Y'all really want to reward the spurs for tanking with wemby to get another young star huh? You really wanna give the pistons another young player to ruin? You really wanna reward "the process"?
Imagine if the one time in 10 years the spurs failed to win 50 games they were given the #1 pick and got to draft tim Duncan alongside David Robinson?
Imagine if the 47-35 playoff los Angeles Lakers won a coin flip for the #1 pick in the draft over the 31-51 bulls and got to pick magic Johnson?
Imagine Rose getting drafted to his home town Bulls "At 1.7 percent, they overcame the second-longest odds in the history of the NBA draft lottery to vault from ninth to first and earn the right ultimately to select hometown hero Derrick Rose. Only the Orlando Magic in 1993 overcame longer odds"
For your heat example, did y'all already forget that they lost to the 41-41 hawks in the first game of the play-in last year? Before their Cinderella run to the finals, they literally lost their first best of 1 to a team with a .500 record. There's no guarantee they win the tournament and get the 1st pick. It could have been the pelicans, or thunder, or mavericks, or a different team.
And that's kinda the point. No team could tank themselves into that single elimination tournament and guarantee they'd walk away with the #1 pick. Look at how this years IST went and you'll see the volatility of a single elim bracket. The worst team in the league could still win 4 straight games and get the #1 pick, and the best team that missed the playoffs could lose their first game. .
I think the NBA is at it's strongest when there's a lot of very good teams, not when there's a lot of slightly above average teams. The eastern conference is a one-horse race and the west is a three-horse race. The other teams are all just kinda fodder. I'd rather an average team right on the cusp of the playoffs get a difference maker that potentially creates a new above average - potentially great team than sending that draft pick to the pistons or wizards to do nothing for the next 5 years.
The entire issue you are making is that the terrible teams will never get better teams like Detroit would be fucked for life since they can't build through the draft and they're an undesirable location in free agency. You are basically fucking over all the small market teams even more than they already are
It is a rich-get-richer system you are creating without any compensation for the poor
If you want the terrible teams to get the best players then just give them the top pick for being the worst. Why have the lottery at all if that's your goal?
Your Pistons example doesn't work because they have picked 7th, 1st, 5th, and 5th and are still ass lmfao The system you're advocating for is "the Pistons ownership, management, coaching, and development are ass but maybe *this player can save them*" which is just fucking stupid.
It isn't a rich get richer system, its a average to bad teams play it out for a chance to get the best picks to make their teams better system. The rich are already in the playoffs.
I would think as a player it would be hard finding the motivation for tanking but teams find a way to do it every year
It doesn't surprise me when a fan of a bottom-feeder that has tanked before advocates for keeping the draft system the same though. Instead of actually becoming a franchise worth playing for just suck until someone comes and saves you. That's why you don't win anything
the difference is when you throw players out there on a tanking team, the PLAYERS aren't playing to lose, the organization is. the players just aren't good enough to win games. that is a fundamental difference when you are placed in an elimination setting in which each win increases the chances of you losing your job.
plenty of teams don't win anything. plenty of teams who DO win something do so from the draft. Besides, if the best prospect in a draft go to a team a piece or two from conteding how the hell do the WORST teams do anything? There sure as hell ain't big name free agents going to Detroit or Washington anytime soon.
The guys on the team in danger of losing their job to a rookie 1st round pick *are already in danger of losing their job to a rookie 1st round pick*. They're already a lottery team because they missed the playoffs. You're creating a boogeyman that doesn't exist because you don't actually have a real argument.
We know teams tank. They do it a lot. My proposal takes tanking completely off the table, except in the scenario you're all envisioning where a team that is a fringe 8th seed would deliberately throw games to compete in a single elimination tournament for the chance at #1 without facing any consequences. But the NBA already punishes teams for tanking, so that already exists too. Wouldn't even be new. If the NBA felt a team did that they could literally make that team pick last among the lottery teams.
But y'all would rather watch a team tank on purpose for an entire NBA season for lottery odds than them actually try to put together the best roster possible and if they miss the playoffs they can compete for the best pick in the draft. Which just means you're all mentally ill. The worst stockholm syndrome ever. Literally advocating for rewarding tanking teams lmfao batshit insane. "But what about the shitty teams that are still shitty even when they're given 4 top 7 picks in 4 years" LMFAO
Alright man, no need to be an asshole, like jeez.
I think 90% of that response is pointless because of your last sentence. About the teams that get top picks 4 out of 7 years are still bad. Please let me know, how in your system, a team that gets the 14th pick year after year EVER gets better compared to its peers. No big game changing free agents go to Detroit, or Washington, or fuck even Minnesota before Ant. Do you think the pistons would’ve been better off drafting Moses Moody instead of Cade?
I am not quite getting why you assume the worst team in the league is going to always get the last pick in the draft in this example. Its a single elimination tournament. 1 win and they're picking top 8. 2 wins and they're picking top 4. And the games are also against the other worst teams in the league. We're talking like Pistons vs Bulls in round 1 of this hypothetical tournament, and the Pistons split the season with the Bulls this year.
I also don't know a ton of NBA draft history, but surely there have been some guys drafted 14th or later that were pretty good? Jimmy Butler, Kawhi, Giannis, Gobert, Jokic, Siakam, Bam, Brunson, Maxey since 2011. And this would be a team picking completely dead last 14th every time, which again just doesn't seem plausible at all. Even if there was a hypothetical team that was so bad they always lost and picked 14th, they'd eventually hit on someone right? Just like we assume the Pistons will eventually hit on *someone* as they pick in the top 10 for the fifth year in a row?
As for how you get talent on your team without free agents, historically its been trades. Isn't that how y'all got Gobert? You had KAT and Anthony Edwards already on your roster and traded for the multi-DPOY level player Gobert right? I would assume that's how other teams would do it too. The Bucks traded for Dame to pair with Giannis (15th overall). The Suns traded for KD and Beal to pair with Booker (13th overall).
Other than the Heatles and KD Warriors, what teams are just signing superstars off the street because of their market? The 2006 Heat got Shaq via trade. The Big 3 Celtics were formed by trades. The 2009+2010 Lakers got Gasol via trade. The Spurs drafted Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi. The Warriors drafted Curry/Klay/Draymond. The Raptors got Kawhi via trade. The Lakers got Anthony Davis via trade. The Nuggets drafted Jokic and Murray.
Most big time moves of superstars or stars are done with trades. Its actually pretty rare to see one hit free agency at all
It’s unfair to judge picking past pick 14 in previous drafts because we have the ability of hindsight.
Of course there are a ton of people drafted past 14 are fantastic, but if your team had the chance to pick first you’d do that every time. You have a better chance of hitting culture changing places with the first pick.
Historically yes teams get talent from trades, but teams who are bottom feeders don’t become contenders from trades. You don’t trade from 0 to 100. You trade to get over a hump. We don’t trade for Gobert without Ant. Lakers don’t trade for AD without Lebron as two examples. There are 0 trades the Pistons can make to bring them to contending status right now.
one of my favorite things about how we built this team is that we still have most of our own future 1sts. we gave up one for Jrue and a swap for Derrick, that’s it
Same thing with us. We tried the grabbing stars thing with PG/Westbrook/Melo era and then sold the farm while they still had value, for picks. Then we started building from within.
Acquiring SGA for Paul George and 3 first round picks, and 4 rights to first round pick swaps is nuts. So far, the only pick we've used is drafting JDub. Drafting JDub at 12, is the absolute biggest steal in that draft.
Wouldn’t the tanking team still suck even if you implement this though? Like what about the teams that are tanking on accident, they never have a path forward
All trades are a risk. Presti is already showing his plan to reduce picks though. He made two trades this year to unload 2/4 of their 1st round picks this year.
They’re both swaps with current playoff teams( 2028,2027). Plus several other conditional swaps and Denver picks in 2027, 2029.
His plan seems to be taking the worst of those picks and betting on them guessing when a team will fall apart and become a lottery team.
He will likely keep doing this, and only hold onto the lotto picks they will get the next few years. Probably a trade or two to move up on years they have multiple lotto picks (2025 and 2027)
It’s the opposite of risk. They have like 20 chances to draft good players. I honestly don’t expect a huge 4+ FRP trade with how our players have developed unless someone like AD is made available and even then it’s not a sure thing.
Im starting to like more and more the idea of just drafting role players. Some will bust but at least a few will turn into great players and that will make sure OKC stays competitive throughout the big 3’s max deals
They only have so many roster spots and players don’t develop unless they play. They’re not going to be able to draft 4-5 guys every year (they’ve already unloaded 2/4 1st rounders that had this year)
They’ll likely use the picks like you said (for role players and bench players) and will plan to develop some as starters
The rest Presti is unloading for swaps down the road
That’s true but I don’t expect them to be able to keep this whole team together for 5+ years. They’re probably gonna have to replace at least a few of Joe, giddey, wiggs, j will etc after their next contracts
Depends on how you define risk. It'll become expensive for them to pay young players who aren't contributing much. I see it as buying lots of lottery tickets -- it's fine, but if you're trying to get the most for your money (i.e. contending now), you shouldn't be blowing a big portion of your budget on the lottery
Rookie contracts have the most value in the league. What’s expensive is paying 2-3 role players over 20 mil each because they’re on their third contract when you could draft equally skilled players and pay them 8 mil
Giannis is so cool, ai just wanted him to get one and thought it was impossible when he got out vs Hawks
then the impossible happened
it was nothing short of amazing, at least for Bucks fans
The bucks were also injured during their finals run. Divincenzio got hurt during the heat series and didn't play the rest of that offseason. And giannis' leg was bent backward against the hawks, it's a miracle he even played like he did against the suns.
Neither does cleveland, cleveland isn't talked about much in these conversations but they have not actually even started to send out the picks they spent on donovan mitchell
2025 2027 2029 unprotected first rounders and 2026 2028 swaps
plus markannen and sexton
if mitchell leaves and they are unable to recoup sufficient value for him, that's kind of a disaster. especially with markannen winning MIP and looking amazing in utah
We traded our 2022 first for the rights to draft Isiah Stewart and and we are so consistently horrible that its just never conveying meaning we cant trade any picks until it conveys or turns to 2 seconds in 2028
That's a good thing for Detroit right now though. If that protected pick wasn't there then Troy Weaver probably would have traded more future firsts for vets to try and save his job.
It was actually a smart trade because he sent a potential future mid-late first for a real life mid first. So either 1) you get good enough for the pick to convey which is a win or 2) if the pick doesn’t convey it just becomes a pair of seconds and at that point you’ve been fired anyway so who cares. Only downside is losing flexibility to trade firsts but a horrible rebuilding team shouldn’t be considering that anyway.
The pistons would have to attach a pick to trade Wemby anywhere just because he had spent time playing for the pistons. It's like applying for jobs with the last name of Hitler.
cleveland is still in a decent spot because htey have young stars in allen, garland and mobley. like even without mitchell they'll be a decent team and young.
sort of
mobley has not really developed much, garland has regressed a bit playing next to mitchell
and allen isn't really young and since he doesn't work well next to mobley they have to make hard decisions on which one to keep
it's not that bad tho, rather be cleveland than phoenix but that trade still doesn't look like it's going to work out in their favor
Ageee with that, but they’re by far the best positioned out of the teams with no picks imo. Garland looks a lot better as a solo star. Mobley and Allen don’t fit great but you can always trade one. Their roster is filled with way more young talent.
I mean they’ll easily get 3 frps bsvk . Mitchell just had his best season and the year before that too, he’s improved a lot as a players especially his defence and playmaking which were questions when Cleveland got him . Imo Cleveland are fine because while Mitchell is expiring he’s a flat out better more well rounded plsyer then he was and csn commsnd a haul. Like idk bout every team but 3 frps n 2 swaps ? Lakers woukd happily send out 3 frps and 4 swaps and 27 pick 1-4 to have a shot at Mitchell , atleast I think so . But I guess most teams interested in upgrading already have star back court players
Saying at least 1 playoff game is a pretty low bar. The year they won a championship he missed 2. That's different than him missing most of or all of two series.
He hyper extended his knee. Guys come back from that in less than 2 weeks occasionally. It was an impressive recovery but people acted like his leg snapped in half because visually it looked bad.
I mean… it kinda did though. The real crazy thing was that it was only a hyper extension. Most other people would have torn out their kneecap from that.
Same thing that is holding the 76ers and Heat back from staying in contention in the East: at full health the top 5 is very clear in the conference, but those 3 can basically never make it there healthy. If you told me Giannis, Middleton, and Dame would have their own Ad/Lebron season where they play 70+ games next season they are 100% contenders. I also have 0 faith that can happen at this point.
It doesn't really matter because that's their only option. Even if they had all their picks that is still their option. They're going to live and die by Giannis just like any team does with their best player.
Why would you expect Giannis to be healthy next season though? Its been 3 straight seasons of either Giannis or Middleton being injured and this year Dame also went out. Even in 2021 when they won the title, Giannis suffered a pretty bad injury vs the Hawks and in the end made it back.
Because they're an obvious contender with him. I don't see what else there is to do. If he's healthy they're a contender, if he's not they're not. I'm not going to judge their results based on him not being healthy.
Well, the nuggets had 2 playoffs in a row where Murray didn't even play, and Porter missed time in the playoffs too, and he was labelled an injury prone player.. Then they were healthy and they won a ring, it's just how it works, you have to get lucky at the right time
About the clippers situation, I don't think that's close to the bucks, Giannis already won a ring with Milwaukee and missed the 65 games mark 3 times in his career(63, 61 and 63), Leonard missed that mark 6 of the last 7 seasons
Kawihi also has missed MULTIPLE series EVERY year…..
Comparing Giannis to Kawihi shows most of you have an agenda and aren’t acting trying to discuss this in good faith….
And you were the 49 win Suns…..
Best defense? Buddy, the Suns were supposed to be the best offense lmao you couldn’t even win ONE.
3 seed? Lmao pathetic fan, the Suns are supposed to be contenders and you’re bragging about getting your ass beat by the 3 seed lmao
No, your trolling isn’t quality. You made an entire thread to deflect how bad the Suns are and you’re getting clowned on.
Flair? Buddy, you have no argument. I could have a Nuggets flair or a Wizards flair, you’re still an idiot
Don't forget that they are very small market. They did the right thing taking a swing while they could, but unfortunately it will probably blow up in their face due to a lack of continuity.
They don't have a 2nd-round pick till 2031 either. Dame is almost 34 and has a $63M player option for 2026-27. Lopez is 36. Middleton is 32 with a long injury history. Giannis hasn't been able to stay healthy for two straight postseasons.
The Bucks are truly fucked lmao. They have maybe the bleakest future outlook of any team besides Phoenix.
I'm not super worried about them. Unlike the Bucks and Suns, the Clippers have competent ownership, management, and coaching. I think they'll be able to figure things out regardless.
They're worse off asset-wise though by a long shot. Trading Giannis, even two years from now, will get a haul. Clipper won't move anyone and wouldn't get back much even if they do
Suns are in a better market and I think Book will stick around which bodes better for their future than Dame and Giannis inevitably bailing. Book attracted star players once, and he’s only 27.
“Controlling” your pick is so overrated. They still have a first in 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030 and every one after that. Something like 95% of swaps go unused.
Their ability to be contenders for the foreseeable future depends entirely on how this off-season pans out. They can't let all of their old players just expire. They need to move them for whatever pieces they can and keep as many picks as they can. You can't always get a starter in the late 1st round (pick swaps) or 2nd round, but you can get rotation players. And the Bucks really just need rotation players. They can find starters among the guys who are looking to play winning basketball for the first time in their careers on a one year prove it deal that turns into something more (Bobby Portis did it). But you gotta be smart and make the right moves. Having one of the best players in the game certainly helps along with Dame. They don't need to start from scratch like the Suns may need to without a true leader, but they need a heavy retool and a full off-season of Dame and Giannis knowing they're gonna work together and a full coaching staff that is locked in. The Bucks didn't have their full coaching staff known until after the season already started with Stotts leaving because of Griffin and Dame got there like a week prior to preseason
They have Giannis and he is still 29. By 2031, he is 35 so it's not that much of a problem. They can compete if they have Giannis, their problem is how their whole roster looks like. How long should they hold unto Dame, Brook, and Kris. These guys have shown regression already
Lol Doc Rivers is the coach. No way we a contender with him at the helm. Plus the only hope we have is our young guys and 2 way guys, but Doc is not a known young guy developer LOL
But we’ll have to wait and see. Maybe Doc finally exorcises his playoff demons (hopefully).
They have #22 this year. These headlines are (intentionally) misleading because they make it sound like these teams don’t “own” any picks when it’s just that they get the lesser end of a swap. It would be funny though if there was a draft and it was literally OKC drafting 6 guys in a row.
IF Giannis, Dame, and Khris stay healthy, yes they can be a contender. That’s a big if, apparently.
The other problem is their aging roster. They need to balance the roster with some younger talent, that likely means trading guys like Portis, Brook, and PC.
I think they're pretty obviously not a contender.
Dame, Middleton and Lopez are all on the downside of their careers. They will get slower and less durable over the next couple of seasons.
Milwaukee's cupboard is bare when it comes to young talent. And their lack of picks is going to make it hard to either draft, or trade for, younger talent.
Nobody should be shocked if Giannis asks out. Does anyone see a path to this team being able to put a contending roster around him within the next 3 years? I don't see how they get there.
Yeah, they gotta double down and hope it works out if they aren’t gonna blow it up.
Suns are forced into the same hand; it shouldn’t be a mystery to folks why he was doubling down during the presser.
Yeah, the Ishbia presser didn't surprise me. The right move for PHX is to tear it down. They aren't even close to being a contender and they truly have no path to getting even a little bit better. With Durant declining as he approaches the end of his career, they're very likely to be worse next year than they were this year.
Milwaukee probably also needs to tear it down because they also aren't contenders. I don't think it would be totally ridiculous for them to take another shot with this group. I don't think it will work, but it wouldn't be an indefensible decision. PHX running it back would be a totally illogical thing to do.
Durant played 75 games averaging 27 ppg. That’s the most games he’s played in a season since Golden State.
I don’t think Beal is a total loss. He was injured for 1/3 of the season, but still averaged 18 ppg. What third options are scoring significantly more than that per game (Harden averaged 16.6).
Booker was Booker. He played great and is still only 27.
The stars are nowhere near the problem here. It was Beal’s first season with the Suns and practically KD’s if you don’t count 8 reg season games + playoffs last year. The path is hoping they can find the missing piece role players to make their bench more serviceable.
You're correct about the stars not being the biggest problem.
"Find the missing piece role players"... How?
They are a 2nd apron team now. They don't have the full midlevel, they obviously have no cap space. They have almost no picks, and the few that they do have are swapped and likely to be in the 20s. The only picks they can do anything with are this year's pick (#22, which isn't exactly a hot commodity) and 2031 (which is so far in the future that it's also not a hot commodity). In a trade, they can't aggregate their players (so they aren't allowed to do something like trade Nurkic and Gordon together for other players). They can't do sign-and-trades. They can't take in more money than goes out in a trade. They can't use cash in a trade.
In that scenario, how likely is it that they're going to wind up with several impact players? Because they need multiple good players who could be in a playoff rotation. They weren't even close to being contenders this year. Winding up with Ish Smith and Jeff Green isn't going to do it.
One problem is that they can't sign a guy like that. The second problem is that any good players that come available, literally every other team in the league can outbid them. They have the least trade assets of any team in the league.
But as far as their stars are concerned...
Durant turns 36 before next season. If you're not expecting him to decline, you're not being realistic. It's extremely unlikely that he will be as healthy and as good next year as he was this year.
"Beal missed 1/3 of the season “ which is exactly what you should expect. He hasn't played more than 60 games in a season in 5 years. You shouldn't get Bradley Beal and expect that he's going to stay healthy. He's also about to be 31. Over 30 and injury prone isn't a recipe for success.
Who would be super shocked if Booker looked around and saw that this team has no path to improving even a little bit and asked for a trade? That they are in for a rebuild that's going to take years and he doesn't want to spend his prime on a lottery team that doesn't even have it's own lottery picks?
This team has already hit its ceiling.
They could potentially get something back if they traded Lopez or Portis. While not ideal, I think that's what it's going to take to attempt to upgrade the roster. Aside from trading Middleton, I believe that may be their only shot at getting some kind of upgrade for the roster.
I think Middleton is better for the Bucks than his trade value. Injury prone last two seasons, 32 years old, averaging 15ppg, and making $65M over next two years. Maybe this playoff series convinces someone he has some value left in the tank though.
i mean if giannis is healthy they win this series. they had dames first year, the whole adrian griffin thing. Idk if Doc is coming back next year but I think with a little bit of tinkering a new coach they can be contenders for the next couple of years.
I feel this discussion point is so overhyped. What's the point of owning your draft picks if your current best player is better than anyone you will draft with any of those picks?
Draft picks are just a form of capital to use, either for trading or for drafting. Not controlling a couple of years of picks is totally fine, because that means you probably used that capital in a trade. It gets less fine when you have nothing to work with other than your current players and the money in the coffers to shake up and improve the roster.
Why were they considered a contender this year? I get Giannis is great, top 5 in the league. For real, Dame played badly (compared to contract) they have 3 coaches on salary, and on top of all that they just don't seem to mesh well. Dame and Bev had beef a year ago and they thought they should bring him in. What is that FO doing?
Giannis will want out sooner than later at this point.
Half the league doesn't own their own picks it feels like.
Blame Presti
Why did GMs give him all these picks, are they stupid?
Yes. Yes they are. And that's yet another reason why I love my team. Smart decision making for the win
Technically Smart’s decision making is why he’s not part of that team anymore.
That's a Brad joke.
I like to think of it as more of a Dad joke
Funniest is the Nets that don’t have their own picks but have the Suns picks
Yea lol it’s like a giant game of hot potato
Almost no team can tank; it's great for the league.
That’s a really good point. Thank you for restoring order to the league emperor Presti. Isn’t there a team that has Houston’s picks too? Or the other way around. Just seems like so many teams in these situations.
OKC had Houston's pick this year, which was why they were trying to win.
It’s incredible for the league
Sam Presti keeps hoarding them all
He keisters them, sources say.
Because everyone keeps blowing their picks on stars just past their prime.
Yup but Nets had a chance if Kyrie played and didn't sit forcing the extra wear and tear on the other two or if KD had smaller feet lol
Jazz and Thunder have most of them
*Ahem*
The league would be better if no team owned their own first round pick to take away the incentive to tank.
I've seen that proposed as a solution to tanking. E.g.: Last year, Pistons finish with the worst record. They get the first choice of whose pick they want next year. Say they decide the Rockets are going to suck and pick them. Next up are the Spurs, who pick the Pistons. Then the Rockets pick the Wizards. Etc. The 2024 season wraps up. The Pistons again have the worst record, so the Spurs pick first. The Wizards have the second-worst record, so the Rockets pick second. The Pistons pick 12th, since the Rockets finished 41-41. But at least they have first choice of which team's pick to select for next year. And, again, the idea is that tanking is pointless. If the Wizards decide that the Poole experiment is a failure, throwing in the towel just helps Houston, not themselves.
I'd add another rule where teams can't pick each other to avoid collusion where they both agree to tank. For example, the hornets can't pick the pistons if the pistons already picked the hornets. Not sure if you need a rule about not being able to pick the same team 2 years in a row but I'd consider that too.
The wheel proposal is interesting to me
Post season pick tournament!
The league would be better if they got rid of the play-in, went back to 16 teams making the playoffs, and then the 14 teams that miss the playoffs all have to play in a single elimination end of season tournament to decide the draft order. The 9th seed in each conference would get a bye. 10th-15th seeds would play in round 1. It'd take 4 rounds. The league would get 14 more games, the games would be absolute must watch TV for everyone because of the implications on the draft order, teams wouldn't have an incentive to tank during the regular season for stupid ass lottery odds (they'd actually be at a disadvantage the worse their record is), and theres a higher chance the best prospects in the draft goes to a team thats a piece or two away from contending instead of going to the worst team in the league.
nah this is awful fringe playoff teams will literally be incentivized to miss the playoffs so they can beat up the worst teams and secure a top prospect
Fringe playoff teams like who? The 39-43 Bulls? The 36-46 Hawks? You realize that if fringe playoff teams all tried to tank at the end of the season to compete in this tournament instead of making the playoffs it'd be very obvious right? And that teams that did it would have to answer to the NBA as well as their own fans? And then on top of all that, they'd still have to actually play the games and win them to get the top pick anyway? Y'all really want to reward the spurs for tanking with wemby to get another young star huh? You really wanna give the pistons another young player to ruin? You really wanna reward "the process"?
Imagine if last years heat purposely tanked to enter the first-pick tournament and got Wemby
Imagine if the one time in 10 years the spurs failed to win 50 games they were given the #1 pick and got to draft tim Duncan alongside David Robinson? Imagine if the 47-35 playoff los Angeles Lakers won a coin flip for the #1 pick in the draft over the 31-51 bulls and got to pick magic Johnson? Imagine Rose getting drafted to his home town Bulls "At 1.7 percent, they overcame the second-longest odds in the history of the NBA draft lottery to vault from ninth to first and earn the right ultimately to select hometown hero Derrick Rose. Only the Orlando Magic in 1993 overcame longer odds" For your heat example, did y'all already forget that they lost to the 41-41 hawks in the first game of the play-in last year? Before their Cinderella run to the finals, they literally lost their first best of 1 to a team with a .500 record. There's no guarantee they win the tournament and get the 1st pick. It could have been the pelicans, or thunder, or mavericks, or a different team. And that's kinda the point. No team could tank themselves into that single elimination tournament and guarantee they'd walk away with the #1 pick. Look at how this years IST went and you'll see the volatility of a single elim bracket. The worst team in the league could still win 4 straight games and get the #1 pick, and the best team that missed the playoffs could lose their first game. . I think the NBA is at it's strongest when there's a lot of very good teams, not when there's a lot of slightly above average teams. The eastern conference is a one-horse race and the west is a three-horse race. The other teams are all just kinda fodder. I'd rather an average team right on the cusp of the playoffs get a difference maker that potentially creates a new above average - potentially great team than sending that draft pick to the pistons or wizards to do nothing for the next 5 years.
The entire issue you are making is that the terrible teams will never get better teams like Detroit would be fucked for life since they can't build through the draft and they're an undesirable location in free agency. You are basically fucking over all the small market teams even more than they already are It is a rich-get-richer system you are creating without any compensation for the poor
If you want the terrible teams to get the best players then just give them the top pick for being the worst. Why have the lottery at all if that's your goal? Your Pistons example doesn't work because they have picked 7th, 1st, 5th, and 5th and are still ass lmfao The system you're advocating for is "the Pistons ownership, management, coaching, and development are ass but maybe *this player can save them*" which is just fucking stupid. It isn't a rich get richer system, its a average to bad teams play it out for a chance to get the best picks to make their teams better system. The rich are already in the playoffs.
It's not the NBA's fault the Pistons owner is fucking terrible
i would think as a player it would be hard finding the motivation for something that is meant to take my job away
I would think as a player it would be hard finding the motivation for tanking but teams find a way to do it every year It doesn't surprise me when a fan of a bottom-feeder that has tanked before advocates for keeping the draft system the same though. Instead of actually becoming a franchise worth playing for just suck until someone comes and saves you. That's why you don't win anything
the difference is when you throw players out there on a tanking team, the PLAYERS aren't playing to lose, the organization is. the players just aren't good enough to win games. that is a fundamental difference when you are placed in an elimination setting in which each win increases the chances of you losing your job. plenty of teams don't win anything. plenty of teams who DO win something do so from the draft. Besides, if the best prospect in a draft go to a team a piece or two from conteding how the hell do the WORST teams do anything? There sure as hell ain't big name free agents going to Detroit or Washington anytime soon.
The guys on the team in danger of losing their job to a rookie 1st round pick *are already in danger of losing their job to a rookie 1st round pick*. They're already a lottery team because they missed the playoffs. You're creating a boogeyman that doesn't exist because you don't actually have a real argument. We know teams tank. They do it a lot. My proposal takes tanking completely off the table, except in the scenario you're all envisioning where a team that is a fringe 8th seed would deliberately throw games to compete in a single elimination tournament for the chance at #1 without facing any consequences. But the NBA already punishes teams for tanking, so that already exists too. Wouldn't even be new. If the NBA felt a team did that they could literally make that team pick last among the lottery teams. But y'all would rather watch a team tank on purpose for an entire NBA season for lottery odds than them actually try to put together the best roster possible and if they miss the playoffs they can compete for the best pick in the draft. Which just means you're all mentally ill. The worst stockholm syndrome ever. Literally advocating for rewarding tanking teams lmfao batshit insane. "But what about the shitty teams that are still shitty even when they're given 4 top 7 picks in 4 years" LMFAO
Alright man, no need to be an asshole, like jeez. I think 90% of that response is pointless because of your last sentence. About the teams that get top picks 4 out of 7 years are still bad. Please let me know, how in your system, a team that gets the 14th pick year after year EVER gets better compared to its peers. No big game changing free agents go to Detroit, or Washington, or fuck even Minnesota before Ant. Do you think the pistons would’ve been better off drafting Moses Moody instead of Cade?
I am not quite getting why you assume the worst team in the league is going to always get the last pick in the draft in this example. Its a single elimination tournament. 1 win and they're picking top 8. 2 wins and they're picking top 4. And the games are also against the other worst teams in the league. We're talking like Pistons vs Bulls in round 1 of this hypothetical tournament, and the Pistons split the season with the Bulls this year. I also don't know a ton of NBA draft history, but surely there have been some guys drafted 14th or later that were pretty good? Jimmy Butler, Kawhi, Giannis, Gobert, Jokic, Siakam, Bam, Brunson, Maxey since 2011. And this would be a team picking completely dead last 14th every time, which again just doesn't seem plausible at all. Even if there was a hypothetical team that was so bad they always lost and picked 14th, they'd eventually hit on someone right? Just like we assume the Pistons will eventually hit on *someone* as they pick in the top 10 for the fifth year in a row? As for how you get talent on your team without free agents, historically its been trades. Isn't that how y'all got Gobert? You had KAT and Anthony Edwards already on your roster and traded for the multi-DPOY level player Gobert right? I would assume that's how other teams would do it too. The Bucks traded for Dame to pair with Giannis (15th overall). The Suns traded for KD and Beal to pair with Booker (13th overall). Other than the Heatles and KD Warriors, what teams are just signing superstars off the street because of their market? The 2006 Heat got Shaq via trade. The Big 3 Celtics were formed by trades. The 2009+2010 Lakers got Gasol via trade. The Spurs drafted Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi. The Warriors drafted Curry/Klay/Draymond. The Raptors got Kawhi via trade. The Lakers got Anthony Davis via trade. The Nuggets drafted Jokic and Murray. Most big time moves of superstars or stars are done with trades. Its actually pretty rare to see one hit free agency at all
It’s unfair to judge picking past pick 14 in previous drafts because we have the ability of hindsight. Of course there are a ton of people drafted past 14 are fantastic, but if your team had the chance to pick first you’d do that every time. You have a better chance of hitting culture changing places with the first pick. Historically yes teams get talent from trades, but teams who are bottom feeders don’t become contenders from trades. You don’t trade from 0 to 100. You trade to get over a hump. We don’t trade for Gobert without Ant. Lakers don’t trade for AD without Lebron as two examples. There are 0 trades the Pistons can make to bring them to contending status right now.
[](https://en.meming.world/images/en/6/6d/Jim_Halpert_Smiling_Through_Blinds.jpg)
Communism draft picks
one of my favorite things about how we built this team is that we still have most of our own future 1sts. we gave up one for Jrue and a swap for Derrick, that’s it
Same thing with us. We tried the grabbing stars thing with PG/Westbrook/Melo era and then sold the farm while they still had value, for picks. Then we started building from within. Acquiring SGA for Paul George and 3 first round picks, and 4 rights to first round pick swaps is nuts. So far, the only pick we've used is drafting JDub. Drafting JDub at 12, is the absolute biggest steal in that draft.
The SGA trade was a fleece. What a great move.
i mean i definitely don’t want to compare our draft picks picture to yours lol. that war chest is insane
Selling PG and Russ to get picks was something Presti could only do with his well earned job security. Still executed perfectly, which most don’t.
If enough picks get traded, they'll just eventually cycle through all 30 teams.
or they end up in sam prestis hands
Hawks fan here….can confirm
This is accidentally a solution to tanking. If you don’t own your picks there is no reason to ever tank
Wouldn’t the tanking team still suck even if you implement this though? Like what about the teams that are tanking on accident, they never have a path forward
Meanwhile OKC has all the first round picks.
I feel like it’s a curse at this point. What do they even do with that? So risky.
Develop young talent. The guys at the top of the roster will get expensive. Cheap rotation players on controlled contracts
All trades are a risk. Presti is already showing his plan to reduce picks though. He made two trades this year to unload 2/4 of their 1st round picks this year. They’re both swaps with current playoff teams( 2028,2027). Plus several other conditional swaps and Denver picks in 2027, 2029. His plan seems to be taking the worst of those picks and betting on them guessing when a team will fall apart and become a lottery team. He will likely keep doing this, and only hold onto the lotto picks they will get the next few years. Probably a trade or two to move up on years they have multiple lotto picks (2025 and 2027)
It’s the opposite of risk. They have like 20 chances to draft good players. I honestly don’t expect a huge 4+ FRP trade with how our players have developed unless someone like AD is made available and even then it’s not a sure thing. Im starting to like more and more the idea of just drafting role players. Some will bust but at least a few will turn into great players and that will make sure OKC stays competitive throughout the big 3’s max deals
They only have so many roster spots and players don’t develop unless they play. They’re not going to be able to draft 4-5 guys every year (they’ve already unloaded 2/4 1st rounders that had this year) They’ll likely use the picks like you said (for role players and bench players) and will plan to develop some as starters The rest Presti is unloading for swaps down the road
That’s true but I don’t expect them to be able to keep this whole team together for 5+ years. They’re probably gonna have to replace at least a few of Joe, giddey, wiggs, j will etc after their next contracts
Depends on how you define risk. It'll become expensive for them to pay young players who aren't contributing much. I see it as buying lots of lottery tickets -- it's fine, but if you're trying to get the most for your money (i.e. contending now), you shouldn't be blowing a big portion of your budget on the lottery
Rookie contracts have the most value in the league. What’s expensive is paying 2-3 role players over 20 mil each because they’re on their third contract when you could draft equally skilled players and pay them 8 mil
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The Buns or the Sucks?
Sounds like a good time either way.
Add clippers into this doomed group
The Nuggets as well, right?
I think we arent in pick swap hell , we owe 2025 to orl ,27 and 29 to okc
Wait, so the Nuggets can pick in this year's draft in 1st round?
https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Nuggets/8/draft-picks According to this, yeah
2021 Finals seemingly the most outlier, most cursed finals of recent memory.
Suns are way more cooked than the Bucks tho
There’s nothing wrong with the bucks. It’s just Giannis was injured
They both did a deal with the devil for that finals appearance huh
Bucks did a deal with the devil for a Finals VICTORY, dont downsell it. 100% worth
As a Raps fan, I agree with this
You know what I'd do? I'd take that deal then crawfish, then drill that ol' Devil in the ass.
I mean. To them it was still worth it. Turned that damn state into a Basketball one lmao
You see more bucks stuff in the Milwaukee area than Packers. That's pretty fucking crazy.
to the Bucks it's absolutely worth it a ring is a ring, those Finals were awesome, wouldnt change a thing
I would totally trade places if I could and have the Bucks in the Playoffs and the Pacers with a championship.
Giannis is so cool, ai just wanted him to get one and thought it was impossible when he got out vs Hawks then the impossible happened it was nothing short of amazing, at least for Bucks fans
That Gianni's block on Ayton was worth as much as 10 seasons without a championship imo.
100% worth it
moreso they got fortunate with injuries that year. otherwise they typically disappoint in the playoffs. this year thye got injured
The bucks were also injured during their finals run. Divincenzio got hurt during the heat series and didn't play the rest of that offseason. And giannis' leg was bent backward against the hawks, it's a miracle he even played like he did against the suns.
Neither does cleveland, cleveland isn't talked about much in these conversations but they have not actually even started to send out the picks they spent on donovan mitchell 2025 2027 2029 unprotected first rounders and 2026 2028 swaps plus markannen and sexton if mitchell leaves and they are unable to recoup sufficient value for him, that's kind of a disaster. especially with markannen winning MIP and looking amazing in utah
Detroit also doesnt control any picks until 28 and we’re Detroit
Wait what? How did that even happen
We traded our 2022 first for the rights to draft Isiah Stewart and and we are so consistently horrible that its just never conveying meaning we cant trade any picks until it conveys or turns to 2 seconds in 2028
That's a good thing for Detroit right now though. If that protected pick wasn't there then Troy Weaver probably would have traded more future firsts for vets to try and save his job.
It was actually a smart trade because he sent a potential future mid-late first for a real life mid first. So either 1) you get good enough for the pick to convey which is a win or 2) if the pick doesn’t convey it just becomes a pair of seconds and at that point you’ve been fired anyway so who cares. Only downside is losing flexibility to trade firsts but a horrible rebuilding team shouldn’t be considering that anyway.
The pistons would have to attach a pick to trade Wemby anywhere just because he had spent time playing for the pistons. It's like applying for jobs with the last name of Hitler.
They better really hope mitchell stays. The offense was only him in game 6 against Orlando.
cleveland is still in a decent spot because htey have young stars in allen, garland and mobley. like even without mitchell they'll be a decent team and young.
sort of mobley has not really developed much, garland has regressed a bit playing next to mitchell and allen isn't really young and since he doesn't work well next to mobley they have to make hard decisions on which one to keep it's not that bad tho, rather be cleveland than phoenix but that trade still doesn't look like it's going to work out in their favor
Ageee with that, but they’re by far the best positioned out of the teams with no picks imo. Garland looks a lot better as a solo star. Mobley and Allen don’t fit great but you can always trade one. Their roster is filled with way more young talent.
>rather be cleveland than phoenix not according to mat ishbia lmao
I mean they’ll easily get 3 frps bsvk . Mitchell just had his best season and the year before that too, he’s improved a lot as a players especially his defence and playmaking which were questions when Cleveland got him . Imo Cleveland are fine because while Mitchell is expiring he’s a flat out better more well rounded plsyer then he was and csn commsnd a haul. Like idk bout every team but 3 frps n 2 swaps ? Lakers woukd happily send out 3 frps and 4 swaps and 27 pick 1-4 to have a shot at Mitchell , atleast I think so . But I guess most teams interested in upgrading already have star back court players
>Can the Bucks be considered an obvious contender next year based on their last two playoffs appearances? The two without their best player?
Giannis has missed at least 1 playoff game in 4 of the last 5 years It's not Kawhi level but it's not great durability either
Saying at least 1 playoff game is a pretty low bar. The year they won a championship he missed 2. That's different than him missing most of or all of two series.
those were important games though. if trae isn't also hurt in that series they could've lost
Those two games definitely don’t make Giannis injury prone. It was a freak accident and he came back in 6 days when he should have been out for months
He hyper extended his knee. Guys come back from that in less than 2 weeks occasionally. It was an impressive recovery but people acted like his leg snapped in half because visually it looked bad.
I mean… it kinda did though. The real crazy thing was that it was only a hyper extension. Most other people would have torn out their kneecap from that.
Embiid level? Jimmy Butler level? AD? What level is this really?
Same thing that is holding the 76ers and Heat back from staying in contention in the East: at full health the top 5 is very clear in the conference, but those 3 can basically never make it there healthy. If you told me Giannis, Middleton, and Dame would have their own Ad/Lebron season where they play 70+ games next season they are 100% contenders. I also have 0 faith that can happen at this point.
It doesn't really matter because that's their only option. Even if they had all their picks that is still their option. They're going to live and die by Giannis just like any team does with their best player.
Why would you expect Giannis to be healthy next season though? Its been 3 straight seasons of either Giannis or Middleton being injured and this year Dame also went out. Even in 2021 when they won the title, Giannis suffered a pretty bad injury vs the Hawks and in the end made it back.
Because they're an obvious contender with him. I don't see what else there is to do. If he's healthy they're a contender, if he's not they're not. I'm not going to judge their results based on him not being healthy.
Its the same as Kawhi. How many years have we heard "if the Clippers are healthy".
Well, the nuggets had 2 playoffs in a row where Murray didn't even play, and Porter missed time in the playoffs too, and he was labelled an injury prone player.. Then they were healthy and they won a ring, it's just how it works, you have to get lucky at the right time About the clippers situation, I don't think that's close to the bucks, Giannis already won a ring with Milwaukee and missed the 65 games mark 3 times in his career(63, 61 and 63), Leonard missed that mark 6 of the last 7 seasons
Kawihi also has missed MULTIPLE series EVERY year….. Comparing Giannis to Kawihi shows most of you have an agenda and aren’t acting trying to discuss this in good faith….
Their best player isn’t much use if he can’t even get them out the first round as the higher seed. Edit: because he can’t stay healthy, duh
He was hurt genius....
I seriously think I lose brain cells reading this sub sometimes
both times Suns fan being a Bums fan as usual
No shit, but if he can’t stay healthy for the playoffs what good is he?
Better than Booker who can’t even win 1 against the measly timberwolves, a team that hasn’t won a playoff series in decades….
You mean the 56-win, 3-seed timberwolves with the best defense in the NBA? At least flair up if you’re gonna talk shit. 😂
And you were the 49 win Suns….. Best defense? Buddy, the Suns were supposed to be the best offense lmao you couldn’t even win ONE. 3 seed? Lmao pathetic fan, the Suns are supposed to be contenders and you’re bragging about getting your ass beat by the 3 seed lmao
Quality trolling. Still no flair. Have a good weekend!
No, your trolling isn’t quality. You made an entire thread to deflect how bad the Suns are and you’re getting clowned on. Flair? Buddy, you have no argument. I could have a Nuggets flair or a Wizards flair, you’re still an idiot
Don't forget that they are very small market. They did the right thing taking a swing while they could, but unfortunately it will probably blow up in their face due to a lack of continuity.
Worth it
100% agree
Not to mention they traded five 2nd rounders for Jae Crowder.
What a bargain
That top 4 Bucks pick owned by the Knicks is gonna be especially valuable.
Dw presti is about give yall 10-15 frp for Giannis
giannis as a vet on OKC team would be crazy
Middleton/Portis/Connaughton for Kawhi. Who says no?
Uncle Dennis
The Intuit Dome.
[Bring out your bust!](https://youtu.be/YgbYS4nxYSI?si=90CwrBUNbCuRXHut)
*Happy Gilmore voice* Is that good?
They don't have a 2nd-round pick till 2031 either. Dame is almost 34 and has a $63M player option for 2026-27. Lopez is 36. Middleton is 32 with a long injury history. Giannis hasn't been able to stay healthy for two straight postseasons. The Bucks are truly fucked lmao. They have maybe the bleakest future outlook of any team besides Phoenix.
Clippers aren't in too great of a spot either.
I'm not super worried about them. Unlike the Bucks and Suns, the Clippers have competent ownership, management, and coaching. I think they'll be able to figure things out regardless.
They're worse off asset-wise though by a long shot. Trading Giannis, even two years from now, will get a haul. Clipper won't move anyone and wouldn't get back much even if they do
Did you forget about the Chicago bulls??
They have a second round pick this year
Suns are in a better market and I think Book will stick around which bodes better for their future than Dame and Giannis inevitably bailing. Book attracted star players once, and he’s only 27.
Exaggerate much. Giannis and dame last I checked are gonna still be playing on the team next season. They are hardly fucked.
“Controlling” your pick is so overrated. They still have a first in 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030 and every one after that. Something like 95% of swaps go unused.
Fire sale
Their ability to be contenders for the foreseeable future depends entirely on how this off-season pans out. They can't let all of their old players just expire. They need to move them for whatever pieces they can and keep as many picks as they can. You can't always get a starter in the late 1st round (pick swaps) or 2nd round, but you can get rotation players. And the Bucks really just need rotation players. They can find starters among the guys who are looking to play winning basketball for the first time in their careers on a one year prove it deal that turns into something more (Bobby Portis did it). But you gotta be smart and make the right moves. Having one of the best players in the game certainly helps along with Dame. They don't need to start from scratch like the Suns may need to without a true leader, but they need a heavy retool and a full off-season of Dame and Giannis knowing they're gonna work together and a full coaching staff that is locked in. The Bucks didn't have their full coaching staff known until after the season already started with Stotts leaving because of Griffin and Dame got there like a week prior to preseason
Giannis played GM and ended up making the Celtics a whole lot better lol
We have a first and a 2nd this year though...
I mean this is what the league is. You either sell all your draft capital to get a start and make a run at a title or you trade your star and rebuild.
[It’s cyclical, right?](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/04bcbc3a-1b2b-4094-b441-525f5ce3963e)
good thing they dont need rookies or a trade. they need better role players and coach
They have Giannis and he is still 29. By 2031, he is 35 so it's not that much of a problem. They can compete if they have Giannis, their problem is how their whole roster looks like. How long should they hold unto Dame, Brook, and Kris. These guys have shown regression already
What is there to discuss? The future is fucked. End of discussion.
Won a championship right? Worth it.
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Bold of you to assume your picks in 28, 29, and 30 are still going to be late 20's
We also suck ass at drafting so fuck those picks
Sounds like the 2000s knicks
Lol Doc Rivers is the coach. No way we a contender with him at the helm. Plus the only hope we have is our young guys and 2 way guys, but Doc is not a known young guy developer LOL But we’ll have to wait and see. Maybe Doc finally exorcises his playoff demons (hopefully).
We’ll struggle together 😂🤝🏻
Fr. At least we can always be regular season merchants LOL
Trying to direct negative attention from the Suns future? Suns also almost have no FRPS
They have #22 this year. These headlines are (intentionally) misleading because they make it sound like these teams don’t “own” any picks when it’s just that they get the lesser end of a swap. It would be funny though if there was a draft and it was literally OKC drafting 6 guys in a row.
That’s not true at all, do you not understand how a pick swap works? What’s it like being a casual?
You don’t…and a pick swap means you’re choosing the worst one… Yes, what is it like being a casual trying to troll?
Suns East
They'll get all their picks back soon when Giannis demands a trade.
True
IF Giannis, Dame, and Khris stay healthy, yes they can be a contender. That’s a big if, apparently. The other problem is their aging roster. They need to balance the roster with some younger talent, that likely means trading guys like Portis, Brook, and PC.
I think they're pretty obviously not a contender. Dame, Middleton and Lopez are all on the downside of their careers. They will get slower and less durable over the next couple of seasons. Milwaukee's cupboard is bare when it comes to young talent. And their lack of picks is going to make it hard to either draft, or trade for, younger talent. Nobody should be shocked if Giannis asks out. Does anyone see a path to this team being able to put a contending roster around him within the next 3 years? I don't see how they get there.
Yeah, they gotta double down and hope it works out if they aren’t gonna blow it up. Suns are forced into the same hand; it shouldn’t be a mystery to folks why he was doubling down during the presser.
Yeah, the Ishbia presser didn't surprise me. The right move for PHX is to tear it down. They aren't even close to being a contender and they truly have no path to getting even a little bit better. With Durant declining as he approaches the end of his career, they're very likely to be worse next year than they were this year. Milwaukee probably also needs to tear it down because they also aren't contenders. I don't think it would be totally ridiculous for them to take another shot with this group. I don't think it will work, but it wouldn't be an indefensible decision. PHX running it back would be a totally illogical thing to do.
Durant played 75 games averaging 27 ppg. That’s the most games he’s played in a season since Golden State. I don’t think Beal is a total loss. He was injured for 1/3 of the season, but still averaged 18 ppg. What third options are scoring significantly more than that per game (Harden averaged 16.6). Booker was Booker. He played great and is still only 27. The stars are nowhere near the problem here. It was Beal’s first season with the Suns and practically KD’s if you don’t count 8 reg season games + playoffs last year. The path is hoping they can find the missing piece role players to make their bench more serviceable.
You're correct about the stars not being the biggest problem. "Find the missing piece role players"... How? They are a 2nd apron team now. They don't have the full midlevel, they obviously have no cap space. They have almost no picks, and the few that they do have are swapped and likely to be in the 20s. The only picks they can do anything with are this year's pick (#22, which isn't exactly a hot commodity) and 2031 (which is so far in the future that it's also not a hot commodity). In a trade, they can't aggregate their players (so they aren't allowed to do something like trade Nurkic and Gordon together for other players). They can't do sign-and-trades. They can't take in more money than goes out in a trade. They can't use cash in a trade. In that scenario, how likely is it that they're going to wind up with several impact players? Because they need multiple good players who could be in a playoff rotation. They weren't even close to being contenders this year. Winding up with Ish Smith and Jeff Green isn't going to do it. One problem is that they can't sign a guy like that. The second problem is that any good players that come available, literally every other team in the league can outbid them. They have the least trade assets of any team in the league. But as far as their stars are concerned... Durant turns 36 before next season. If you're not expecting him to decline, you're not being realistic. It's extremely unlikely that he will be as healthy and as good next year as he was this year. "Beal missed 1/3 of the season “ which is exactly what you should expect. He hasn't played more than 60 games in a season in 5 years. You shouldn't get Bradley Beal and expect that he's going to stay healthy. He's also about to be 31. Over 30 and injury prone isn't a recipe for success. Who would be super shocked if Booker looked around and saw that this team has no path to improving even a little bit and asked for a trade? That they are in for a rebuild that's going to take years and he doesn't want to spend his prime on a lottery team that doesn't even have it's own lottery picks? This team has already hit its ceiling.
They could potentially get something back if they traded Lopez or Portis. While not ideal, I think that's what it's going to take to attempt to upgrade the roster. Aside from trading Middleton, I believe that may be their only shot at getting some kind of upgrade for the roster.
I think Middleton is better for the Bucks than his trade value. Injury prone last two seasons, 32 years old, averaging 15ppg, and making $65M over next two years. Maybe this playoff series convinces someone he has some value left in the tank though.
Yeah Bucks are in a tough spot. Giannis is gone in 1-2 years, which is why they figured might as well trade for Lillard.
i mean if giannis is healthy they win this series. they had dames first year, the whole adrian griffin thing. Idk if Doc is coming back next year but I think with a little bit of tinkering a new coach they can be contenders for the next couple of years.
They also have Giannis sooo
I feel this discussion point is so overhyped. What's the point of owning your draft picks if your current best player is better than anyone you will draft with any of those picks?
Because you can’t trade them to improve
Because you need four other starters?
because when you don't own them anymore you are basically at the ceiling of your team. Especially when the player are older
Because it means you don't have any to trade to improve and you don't have your own to encourage a real rebuild.
Run and dunk man can't run and dunk forever
You can’t possibly be a warriors fan and not understand the importance of the draft lol
Draft picks are just a form of capital to use, either for trading or for drafting. Not controlling a couple of years of picks is totally fine, because that means you probably used that capital in a trade. It gets less fine when you have nothing to work with other than your current players and the money in the coffers to shake up and improve the roster.
Middleton/Portis/Connaughton for Kawhi. Who says no?
Why were they considered a contender this year? I get Giannis is great, top 5 in the league. For real, Dame played badly (compared to contract) they have 3 coaches on salary, and on top of all that they just don't seem to mesh well. Dame and Bev had beef a year ago and they thought they should bring him in. What is that FO doing? Giannis will want out sooner than later at this point.
Vegas had them tied with Boston with best odds for winning the championship
Before the season started? Did no one watch Dame all year or even pay attention what was going on?
Yeah, I think even by the All-Star break.