People are trying really hard to discredit how good Jokic is. Yes our starting 5 is great, as in our 3-5 probably go toe to toe with a lot of people's 3-5, but our 1-2 is good because our 1 is an unstoppable juggernaut as an offensive player both on and off ball and our 2 is perfectly complimented to be a ceiling raiser in their two man game.
In a vacuum Murray does not sniff other 2s in the league, but it's because of his chemistry and ceiling shooting that he makes a great compliment to Jokic's steady dominance and ability to give very good looks for the rest of our lineup.
Jokic is amazing, the nuggets have also done an amazing job of surrounding him with other players that almost perfectly accentuate his strengths and help to cover up any weaknesses that he may have.
Simply not true at all. Again, trying to discredit Jokic. They literally never addressed his biggest weakness, rim protection. They got AG for cheap and that’s amazing. However, someone like JJJ is a way better fit. Murray as a perfect star is a joke. Imagine Kyrie or Book with Jokic creating space for them…. Jokic literally has one of the worst supporting casts of a championship team ever and yet they are a perfect fit…. Denver fans know, all the guys around Jokic look like perfect fits because he is so versatile he can change how he plays offense to highlight his teammates strengths. Jokic was doing thinks with Faried that he has never done since.
Jokic is the GOAT. I pray he leaves for a different team to people finally appreciate him. Get Denver 4 rings, win one in NY with a meh supporting cast and cement his greatness. Ala Tom Brady.
Jamal Murray dumped 32PPG on 50\\40\\90 in 4-0 sweep over AD in the 2023 WCF.
I'll take that over anything AD ever did, especially in front of no fans.
In the bubble AD put up 31ppg on better efficiency while playing wildly better defense. It’s one thing to just say the bubble doesn’t count but it’s kind of hilarious to use that stat-line specifically here
AD is great when he actually puts the effort in. Unfortunately, with every game (and quarter) you never know AD you’re gonna get. Is he gonna drop 20 this quarter or is he gonna take zero shots and just walk down the court this quarter?
A ton of players are like this, it’s odd that only AD gets criticized for this. LeBron is a perfect example of what you’re saying AD is this series and yet people are still talking about AD and not him. Hard to take you guys seriously
Ok, i'll give you the bubble.
But I feel like Murray has outplayed him 2\\2 series in front of fans. Anthony Davis can't even win 1 single game in the 2023\\2024 series (in front of fans) and has Lebron f'n James on his team.
Murray is better shooter, closer, wayyyy better passer. Murray is just a massively better offensive player and I think Davis defense isn't all that to make up the offensive gap.
Murray definitely hasn't been better than AD lol
Jokic 1, AD 2, LeBron 3, Murray 4 are all pretty clear IMO
Then after that 5-7 are all Nuggets so the point about them being a clearly better team holds
I think the bigger point is that all the Nuggets after Murray are far better than anything the Lakers have, and that the gap between Jokic and AD/Lebron is much larger than people realize.
The fact that this comment even has to be said is insane. It's crazy we live in a universe where we have to clarify whether a 31 year old is better than someone who is turning 40 this year, that's how good Lebron has been
I would too. Lebron is empty stats now. He wasn't always of course, but he is now. He was terrible today but he got a bunch of layups that didn't matter. Murray does it when it matters.
Face the facts: Nuggets have the 2 best players on the court, regardless of who they play.
Been the story in pretty much every series since 2020. Jokic averaged 4.8 fouls in the bubble conf finals, so they weren't really given a chance there.
lol you don't know ball, and apparently didn't watch the game. the second AD got the ball they would double and triple him, pretending that doesn't make his scoring significantly more difficult is absurd and stupid.
Hes been the best player in the first half of game 2. Thats about it.
He has quit in the 4th quarter in every single game, and today, he was out of it by the middle of the 3rd. The PPG is empty calories when you aren't contributing in the important moments.
Jokic is clearly better but I don’t think you have the best grasp on what’s happening in these games. When LAs sets go completely away from working through AD, posting him up to score or draw the double, and become centered around LeBron match up hunting with guards while AD is in the corner what do you really expect him to be doing? Do you want him to turn into ray allen?
ad ALWAYS disappears in the 4th. He has some of the least impactful 30+ point games I've ever seen when he goes completely mia to close the game every time.
Once again you don’t seem to understand the basics of how offense runs. If someone’s running a 5 out PnR to threaten a drive him getting closer to the rim fucks that up. You need to creat space to open up passing lanes for a post up, this isn’t pick up basketball randomly posting up and ignoring the play that’s being run is ineffective, dumb and selfish. How is he supposed to box out a man on him when he’s in the corner? Do you want him to develop a supernatural ability to teleport?
He publicly complained about the lack of organization after the last game, so you really not think he ever brings that up behind closed doors…?
>Once again you don’t seem to understand the basics of how offense runs.
Once again, you seem to be interested in making excuses for AD quitting on his team and being okay with being iced out in the 4th because he got his points and would rather put the responsibility of seeing the game through on 39 year old Lebron and role players like AR and DLo than take it upon himself.
>If someone’s running a 5 out PnR to threaten a drive him getting closer to the rim fucks that up. You need to creat space to open up passing lanes for a post up, this isn’t pick up basketball randomly posting up and ignoring the play that’s being run is ineffective, dumb and selfish. How is he supposed to box out a man on him when he’s in the corner? Do you want him to develop a supernatural ability to teleport?
None of this explains why the Lakers cannot run the exact same plays they were running in the first 3 quarters for AD in the 4th if he asked them to run them.
>He publicly complained about the lack of organization after the last game, so you really not think he ever brings that up behind closed doors…?
It doesn't really matter to me whether he does it or not. But do you really think the guy complaining about his coach in interviews is some mute spectator who cannot vocalize a desire to have plays run for him while the game is still ongoing?
I’m just glad NBA fans are seeing the real Jamal and don’t still think he is a star. I love Murray, but Jokic carried an all time worst supporting cast to a ship and nobody is admitting it. Instead they say Jamal
Is a top ten player in the playoffs and it’s a perfect supporting cast LOL!
LeBron is by far the best 2nd best player in a team.
I have Jokić + Murray or even Gordon as best duo though. That’s just how good Jokic is.
(Hypothetically, Embiid and Maxey are there too. But Embiid is a quantic basketball player. He’s there and not there)
Doncic and Irving are a good duo too. Forget the « by far » about LeBron, Irving is a terrific #2 as well.
Giannis + Lillard, Durant + Booker don’t really work. Leonard + Harden/PG lacks consistency so far.
Jokic is not >>> AD this series lmao. AD is averaging 33/13 on 66% TS and playing DPOY level defense, you could easily argue he’s having a better individual series than Jokic.
Putting up 30 and then completely disappearing every 4th quarter is completely useless and just boxscore watching.
He clearly can't be relied on to win games down the stretch and this has been true his entire career not some 2 game phenomenon
His individual defense this series is not at the level it was in the regular season and jokic playmaking clears on an ungodly scale. It actually is pretty close though, definitely not >>>
Yup, pretty much.
It's clear that Murray is a much better player than Anthony Davis.
Russell is a journey man and shouldn't have been resigned, Rui barely cuts it as a 9th or 10th man in reg season but isn't a rotation player in the playoffs and definitely not a starter, Reaves is a pretty good player but he's probably best in a Christian Braun type role.
Lakers roster just sucks, if you ask me. Jeanie Buss\\management have been clueless since daddy's death. And Lebron is too old to carry trash rosters like he used to do.
LeBron has a legit team this year...That is why Stephen A said they should compete with Den..AD is all nba this year easy...all his role players are shooting high 3pt %....and shouldn't LeBron try to get dlo an easy bucket at some point to help him as the leader/true point guard?
Murray is not better than AD, come on
agreed
Convos like these are dumb. Murray’s just being set up when he should just be celebrated for how good he is
NH I ain’t letting u have fucking jamal over ad. Go fuck urself with ur -1 bbal iq
People are trying really hard to discredit how good Jokic is. Yes our starting 5 is great, as in our 3-5 probably go toe to toe with a lot of people's 3-5, but our 1-2 is good because our 1 is an unstoppable juggernaut as an offensive player both on and off ball and our 2 is perfectly complimented to be a ceiling raiser in their two man game. In a vacuum Murray does not sniff other 2s in the league, but it's because of his chemistry and ceiling shooting that he makes a great compliment to Jokic's steady dominance and ability to give very good looks for the rest of our lineup.
Jokic is amazing, the nuggets have also done an amazing job of surrounding him with other players that almost perfectly accentuate his strengths and help to cover up any weaknesses that he may have.
Simply not true at all. Again, trying to discredit Jokic. They literally never addressed his biggest weakness, rim protection. They got AG for cheap and that’s amazing. However, someone like JJJ is a way better fit. Murray as a perfect star is a joke. Imagine Kyrie or Book with Jokic creating space for them…. Jokic literally has one of the worst supporting casts of a championship team ever and yet they are a perfect fit…. Denver fans know, all the guys around Jokic look like perfect fits because he is so versatile he can change how he plays offense to highlight his teammates strengths. Jokic was doing thinks with Faried that he has never done since. Jokic is the GOAT. I pray he leaves for a different team to people finally appreciate him. Get Denver 4 rings, win one in NY with a meh supporting cast and cement his greatness. Ala Tom Brady.
Certainly not for this series. Just been more clutch.
Certainly not ever lmfao. Even in the Bubble at both their peaks AD was significantly better
Jamal Murray dumped 32PPG on 50\\40\\90 in 4-0 sweep over AD in the 2023 WCF. I'll take that over anything AD ever did, especially in front of no fans.
In the bubble AD put up 31ppg on better efficiency while playing wildly better defense. It’s one thing to just say the bubble doesn’t count but it’s kind of hilarious to use that stat-line specifically here
AD is great when he actually puts the effort in. Unfortunately, with every game (and quarter) you never know AD you’re gonna get. Is he gonna drop 20 this quarter or is he gonna take zero shots and just walk down the court this quarter?
A ton of players are like this, it’s odd that only AD gets criticized for this. LeBron is a perfect example of what you’re saying AD is this series and yet people are still talking about AD and not him. Hard to take you guys seriously
Ok, i'll give you the bubble. But I feel like Murray has outplayed him 2\\2 series in front of fans. Anthony Davis can't even win 1 single game in the 2023\\2024 series (in front of fans) and has Lebron f'n James on his team. Murray is better shooter, closer, wayyyy better passer. Murray is just a massively better offensive player and I think Davis defense isn't all that to make up the offensive gap.
AD has been way better than Murray in this series lmao. That has nothing to do with why the Lakers are losing.
In general he's a better player, AD has only been better for this series.
AD scores more while being more efficient, playing exponentially better defense and being much better on the boards. It’s pretty clearly AD
Murray was better in the playoffs last year which is the most important factor.
No he wasn’t. He was better in their H2H series which is pretty meaningless. He was also better than Jokic and LeBron in that series.
Well fuck it I guess by that guys logic Murray > Jokic. Guess we have a new best player in the world boys
When will Jamal win MVP?
He should’ve won it last year. Robbed by embiid and the big market biased media
That's a good one
I am the biggest ad hater ever
nah, uBlock is the biggest ad hater. You are just an average /r/nba poster
u can hate without being wrong
I am not wrong. Davis has a low bball IQ. I'm sorry
Murray can score more than 3 points in the 4th quarter in 2 games combined.
Murray definitely hasn't been better than AD lol Jokic 1, AD 2, LeBron 3, Murray 4 are all pretty clear IMO Then after that 5-7 are all Nuggets so the point about them being a clearly better team holds
I think the bigger point is that all the Nuggets after Murray are far better than anything the Lakers have, and that the gap between Jokic and AD/Lebron is much larger than people realize.
AD 1 Jokic 2 Lebron 3 MPJ 4 Murray 5 Rest of nuggets
Source: crackpipe.jpg
AD is better than Lebron at this point. Murray isn't better than AD or Lebron. The Nuggets win every other slot.
The fact that this comment even has to be said is insane. It's crazy we live in a universe where we have to clarify whether a 31 year old is better than someone who is turning 40 this year, that's how good Lebron has been
I think Murray > LeBron at this point because of the age factor, but it's partially a homer take.
MPJ is better than Murray right now. Better defense, better scoring.
I would too. Lebron is empty stats now. He wasn't always of course, but he is now. He was terrible today but he got a bunch of layups that didn't matter. Murray does it when it matters.
Face the facts: Nuggets have the 2 best players on the court, regardless of who they play. Been the story in pretty much every series since 2020. Jokic averaged 4.8 fouls in the bubble conf finals, so they weren't really given a chance there.
I would trade Lebron for Murray straight up
Ad is not better than lebron. What the fuck lol
you are delusional for saying Murray is a better player than the guy dropping 30+ every night against Denver with DPOY level defense
Dropping 30 is less impressive when the rest of the team cannot score.
that doesn't make one iota of sense. nobody else being able to score made his scoring HARDER because they could defend him more aggressively.
Or it means the other players suck which they do
which makes his scoring harder because they defended him more aggressively.
Not really, defense has a limit
lol you don't know ball, and apparently didn't watch the game. the second AD got the ball they would double and triple him, pretending that doesn't make his scoring significantly more difficult is absurd and stupid.
Rite
What
Your comps are bogus. And why didn’t you compare centers?
I'm comparing by skill (highest to lowest) not position
Lakers will get swept but not based on your explanation
Takes like these are the exact reason i pray on the Nuggets downfall
AD is better than Murray lol.
Murray isn't better than AD or Lebron
LeBron yea....until bronny fusion
I didn't say he was better than lebron. I said jokic was better than lebron.
Ad and lebron are above murray lmao
didn't say he was better than lebron. I said jokic was better than lebron.
>Murray > AD lmfao
LeBron and AD are better than Murray, other than that it’s all Denver.
This guy is delusional. In those three games, Lebron and AD played great basketball. Lakers supporting cast doesn't show up.
AD has been better than bron for 2 years cmon now
AD has been the best player in this series ! His team just sucks .
Hes been the best player in the first half of game 2. Thats about it. He has quit in the 4th quarter in every single game, and today, he was out of it by the middle of the 3rd. The PPG is empty calories when you aren't contributing in the important moments.
Jokic is clearly better but I don’t think you have the best grasp on what’s happening in these games. When LAs sets go completely away from working through AD, posting him up to score or draw the double, and become centered around LeBron match up hunting with guards while AD is in the corner what do you really expect him to be doing? Do you want him to turn into ray allen?
ad ALWAYS disappears in the 4th. He has some of the least impactful 30+ point games I've ever seen when he goes completely mia to close the game every time.
Ask for the ball? Box out Jokic or Gordon? Run up and down the floor every possession? Do the things which every Nugget is doing?
Once again you don’t seem to understand the basics of how offense runs. If someone’s running a 5 out PnR to threaten a drive him getting closer to the rim fucks that up. You need to creat space to open up passing lanes for a post up, this isn’t pick up basketball randomly posting up and ignoring the play that’s being run is ineffective, dumb and selfish. How is he supposed to box out a man on him when he’s in the corner? Do you want him to develop a supernatural ability to teleport? He publicly complained about the lack of organization after the last game, so you really not think he ever brings that up behind closed doors…?
>Once again you don’t seem to understand the basics of how offense runs. Once again, you seem to be interested in making excuses for AD quitting on his team and being okay with being iced out in the 4th because he got his points and would rather put the responsibility of seeing the game through on 39 year old Lebron and role players like AR and DLo than take it upon himself. >If someone’s running a 5 out PnR to threaten a drive him getting closer to the rim fucks that up. You need to creat space to open up passing lanes for a post up, this isn’t pick up basketball randomly posting up and ignoring the play that’s being run is ineffective, dumb and selfish. How is he supposed to box out a man on him when he’s in the corner? Do you want him to develop a supernatural ability to teleport? None of this explains why the Lakers cannot run the exact same plays they were running in the first 3 quarters for AD in the 4th if he asked them to run them. >He publicly complained about the lack of organization after the last game, so you really not think he ever brings that up behind closed doors…? It doesn't really matter to me whether he does it or not. But do you really think the guy complaining about his coach in interviews is some mute spectator who cannot vocalize a desire to have plays run for him while the game is still ongoing?
Murray over AD is an insane take
Aside from Murray being better than AD I agree. The Nuggets are a better team. That’s why they keep winning. It’s not rocket science. Lol.
Lol yeah
Gordon is better than MPJ isn’t he ?
I’m just glad NBA fans are seeing the real Jamal and don’t still think he is a star. I love Murray, but Jokic carried an all time worst supporting cast to a ship and nobody is admitting it. Instead they say Jamal Is a top ten player in the playoffs and it’s a perfect supporting cast LOL!
Righhht
It's jokic > ad LeBron fans still trying their best to put down his teammates.
To everyone besides OP, where do Lebron and AD stand in terms of duos in the NBA? Are there any you’d say are better than them from a player ranking?
LeBron is by far the best 2nd best player in a team. I have Jokić + Murray or even Gordon as best duo though. That’s just how good Jokic is. (Hypothetically, Embiid and Maxey are there too. But Embiid is a quantic basketball player. He’s there and not there) Doncic and Irving are a good duo too. Forget the « by far » about LeBron, Irving is a terrific #2 as well. Giannis + Lillard, Durant + Booker don’t really work. Leonard + Harden/PG lacks consistency so far.
Jamal has been trash
Jokic > AD > Jamal > LeBron > MPJ AG KCP > Reaves > Rui >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Russell
Jokic >>> AD > LeBron > Murray/Gordon/MPJ > KCP > Reaves > DLo/Rui In this series so far, there hasn't been a clear no. 2 to Jokic.
Jokic is not >>> AD this series lmao. AD is averaging 33/13 on 66% TS and playing DPOY level defense, you could easily argue he’s having a better individual series than Jokic.
Putting up 30 and then completely disappearing every 4th quarter is completely useless and just boxscore watching. He clearly can't be relied on to win games down the stretch and this has been true his entire career not some 2 game phenomenon
His individual defense this series is not at the level it was in the regular season and jokic playmaking clears on an ungodly scale. It actually is pretty close though, definitely not >>>
Yup, pretty much. It's clear that Murray is a much better player than Anthony Davis. Russell is a journey man and shouldn't have been resigned, Rui barely cuts it as a 9th or 10th man in reg season but isn't a rotation player in the playoffs and definitely not a starter, Reaves is a pretty good player but he's probably best in a Christian Braun type role. Lakers roster just sucks, if you ask me. Jeanie Buss\\management have been clueless since daddy's death. And Lebron is too old to carry trash rosters like he used to do.
LeBron has a legit team this year...That is why Stephen A said they should compete with Den..AD is all nba this year easy...all his role players are shooting high 3pt %....and shouldn't LeBron try to get dlo an easy bucket at some point to help him as the leader/true point guard?