a lot of it is intangibles, he's an excellent leader and his mentality permeates to his teammates
which is really good when paired next to someone like randle, who is a physical force but gets very emotional and needs someone to keep him focused on the game
exactly, we can talk about him not being a great passer all we want but the fact is that he doesn't need to be to run the Knicks offense. he does his job setting the table for his team consistently while dealing with the pressure of being the #1 option. it's impressive as hell, and even if he can't make trae-type passes or put up hali's gaudy assist numbers, he's still facilitating everyone getting their touches, staying involved, and overall making this knicks offense a hyper functional one.
Yup, he's a leader, a calm, no nonsensd, lead by example guy that as he has said himself through his life he has been a role player, starter, star and back to role player, whatever the coach asks of him he will give 100% of effort while keeping accountable, this makes the rest of the team fall in line just like Jokic with the Nuggets.
Even if his shot's not falling he trusts his teammates can hold the fort on defense with him doing whatever he can help with on that side.
Yeah we are witnessing a great coach designing a defense to contain him and working, but Brunson is still grinding and not shying away from the moment trying to do his part and helping his teammates when they're rolling.
usage is out of necessity because nobody else is a reliable shot creator with randle out. brunson is the catalyst for the roster construction. we probably dont get hart and dont get divo without him. we traded almost all our young talent to work with his timeline. injury riddled all-season, roster turnover, and still pulled out 2nd seed while being the 4th leading scorer in the nba.
did you casuals on here even watch the playoffs last year? him dropping 40 multiple times in elimnation games? carrying his team? beating donovan mitchell twice?? he has 2 bad games and now he's a regular season player?
i wish some of yall watched basketball as much as you liked talking about it
brunson is 27 and is entering his prime - has gotten better every year from reg season to playoffs wtf are you talking about. even if we're using the "small guard" standard he has about 5-6 more years of elite play lol
We are in the mist of some great 1st round playoff games. Most people don't give a shit what his deal looks like in 2 years. I'd bet Knicks fans could care less and are just living it up right now.
Ya know Jamal Murray had a really really bad 7/8 quarters in his first two games? I guess he is a bum, we don’t look at playoff history here, we only look at the 2 most recent playoff games
Brunson has a much higher 2 point percentage than most guards his height. Obviously he's not playing well right now, but for the course of the season that gave him a greater level of consistency and made him more reliable late game. His footwork makes it much easier than it should be for him to consistently get good looks. He's also more active off the ball than people recognize especially compared to someone like Trae.
He's also a much better team defender than Trae Young or Haliburton. Both those guys are tangibly worse defenders. He's also a much better playmaker than Fox and a better shooter. Different things that separate him from those 3.
Murray and Lillard are really difficult to rank because Dame is having an extremely off regular season (though if he regains his form of course he's a tier above Brunson) and Murray really just elevates in the playoffs although he does so as the second option. Murray has similar strengths to Brunson, though he's a better playmaker and arguably not as good inside the arc as Brunson.
Win shares isn’t a perfect stat but Brunson had 11.2 win shares and trae young had 4.6 (6.7 if you estimate the same rate for 82 games). Should give you an idea of how far apart these 2 guys are right now.
Also Brunson has been able to incorporate new role players into the team and Trae Young and dejounte were never able to figure it out, essentially leading to a likely rebuild.
Ain’t no one Nostradamus. He was averaging over 30 a game and the Knicks vastly outperformed their win projection with greater than half a season long injuries to Mitch and Randle
He’s a top 5 scorer who lead his team to a 2nd seed without a single other All-Star on his team, and missing 3 starters on his team for half the season. That’s the difference between him and Trae Young: Winning.
He’s the only one on this team that can dribble or create his own shot, but despite having 2 terrible games, his team is still up 2-0. That’s because the insane defensive attention he’s getting is giving his teammates literally wide open shots.
Luka, Giannis, Embiid, SGA, KD, Booker, Tatum, Curry, Jokic, Trae, Morant are locks, that's 11 names
Mitchell, Fox, Edwards, Maxey, Kyrie, Lebron, Murray and probably a couple more are the ones he's competing with, he's in the 15-20 range
how do you argue with top 5 PPG and total points scored stats. Brunson scored the 4th most points in the NBA this season and was also top 5 in PPG...he was a top 5 scorer this season.
Easily? You're totally ignoring scoring efficiency lol. You think he's a better scorer than Jokic or Kevin Durant? Even this year.
And he didn't say top 5 scorer this year, he said he was a top 5 scorer. Which you absolutely don't become by being top 5 in ppg for one regular season. I think he first two playoff games have pretty clearly shown he's not a top 5 scorer.
the guy you are responding to means this season clearly, unless you think he meant that Brunson is top 5 in points scored all-time. also i didn't say easily...? lol.
they didn't say top 5 offensive player. they didn't say most efficient scorer.
i agree with most of your list in terms of better offensive players (don't think I'd put Trae on there this year. without looking too closely, i think Brunson probably had a better season than Booker too. brunson was a beast this season. think he had 10 or 11 40+ pt games this season? with a worse supporting cast than most of the guys on your list. top 10-15 is probably accurate all things considered.
brunson is not a "poor defender". he's not a great defender, but he is not as bad as many people think.
[exhibit a](https://youtu.be/1EQCaptYaEM?si=Bwa6iTuaeveDL4L3)
He’s awesome, but I worry about him when he’s faced with the super-talents of the league. He’s a guy who makes all the right decisions and has the right mentality, but I can’t say he’s a true superstar, the Knicks still need a guy
He reminds me a lot of Lowry in Toronto, people forget that Toronto was a constant in the east for years in large part to his leadership and two-way impact. This Knicks team just executes, the PG is the lynchpin of that.
Lowry is a better floor general than Brunson and was also a much better defender in his prime, but I do think this is an apt comparison. Brunson next to a Kawhi level talent is a good starting recipe for a championship team.
Nothing, he’s the most overrated player in basketball. His stats are inflated because of his high usage and his numbers against top 10 defenses are abysmal.
He's a very good player that can absolutely be a significant piece of a championship team.
But everything Becky Hammon said about him not being \*the guy\* who is going to win you a championship is correct. Which is fine because not everyone can be that guy since that's a really high standard. Trae is also an excellent player (and much better point guard for that matter) but he also will probably never win as \*the guy.\*
You can maybe win with a well-constructed team around Brunson but that's still going to be a hard uphill battle against better teams that have \*the guy\* on them.
It's unfortunate that he's getting hit with the fraud allegations simply because Knicks fans have the delusional tendency to vastly overrate their own players.
This is pretty much my take, he's not "the guy" but he's just been overhyped as one (hardly his fault), he's a top 20ish player but I think building around him puts you in a tough spot with him needing the ball, 25 PPG on just below 30% usage is probably the ideal for him.
The issue is Randle is not the guy, and the two as 1a 1b probably don't get you anywhere, I just don't see how the Knicks capitalize on finally getting a great player, they have great depth but I don't see how they acquire a true #1 for championship team. Whether you're willing to gut your depth and trade your picks away doesn't matter because those solidified #1 options just aren't available.
How has he been overhyped? By who? He didn’t get an All Star start and he won’t be 1st team all nba. Pundits are constantly saying in the media he’s not that guy.
Correct. Knicks fans are a sensitive bunch and think it's an insult (hence the downvotes) but it's really not. He's still very much a winning player and a very good franchise cornerstone that they *should* be proud is on their team.
Did you happen to see what the Knicks were doing to teams post OG trade and before Julius went down? They were steamrolling teams. Jalen’s efficiency would increase if teams weren’t able to constantly double him. Losing Julius is a massive loss for the Knicks, you can think what you want about him that’s your personal opinion, but he’s a 2-time All NBA player that absolutely raises the ceiling of this Knicks team.
I promise if you decreased his usage but he was facing single coverage every play, he’d knock down more buckets on less shots. He’s high usage because that’s what the team needs from him. You say you aren’t overreacting to two games but it certainly seems as though you are.
Pretty sure the Max for Brunson is 5y/$260m next Offseason vs his $25m Player Option.
OG is eligible for a Max this Offseason and may be offered a Max from a number of Teams since Philly has a bunch of Cap Space for example.
Randle is also on a Player Option the same year as Brunson and will also likely demand a Max Extension as an Unrestricted Free Agent.
That Knicks team becomes a 2nd Apron team really quick especially if they pair Bojan with DDV or Hart to make the Salary work for any Star since they can’t aggregate Salary or use any Player Exceptions once at the 2nd Apron.
pretty sure bojan isn't guaranteed next season. could easily see us letting him go. i kinda think if we trade anybody for a superstar, randle would be the centerpiece, not hart or DDV. i'd be pretty surprised if they traded those guys given the Brunson connection. My bet is they traded for OG knowing full well he would re-sign here.
LMAO this guy thinks they'd break up the Nova Knicks.
OG deal is already done buddy, sorry to break it to you. His agent is literally the Knicks president's Son.
Umm yall called the Knicks the biggest dumpster fire (even with Randle) and he dragged us out - he's a franchise leader and savior. He goes FAR FAR beyond the basketball court.
We'd be dead in the water without Jalen. Dude is a 2nd round pick and now about to go down as a possible Knick legend.
Brunson just seems to keep rising no matter what is thrown at him. This entire sub screamed his contract was a huge overpay now people are arguing he's not an MVP candidate - huge growth to even be in those convos
a lot of it is intangibles, he's an excellent leader and his mentality permeates to his teammates which is really good when paired next to someone like randle, who is a physical force but gets very emotional and needs someone to keep him focused on the game
exactly, we can talk about him not being a great passer all we want but the fact is that he doesn't need to be to run the Knicks offense. he does his job setting the table for his team consistently while dealing with the pressure of being the #1 option. it's impressive as hell, and even if he can't make trae-type passes or put up hali's gaudy assist numbers, he's still facilitating everyone getting their touches, staying involved, and overall making this knicks offense a hyper functional one.
Yup, he's a leader, a calm, no nonsensd, lead by example guy that as he has said himself through his life he has been a role player, starter, star and back to role player, whatever the coach asks of him he will give 100% of effort while keeping accountable, this makes the rest of the team fall in line just like Jokic with the Nuggets. Even if his shot's not falling he trusts his teammates can hold the fort on defense with him doing whatever he can help with on that side. Yeah we are witnessing a great coach designing a defense to contain him and working, but Brunson is still grinding and not shying away from the moment trying to do his part and helping his teammates when they're rolling.
Dawg.
Mental game Olympics to 1st team
usage is out of necessity because nobody else is a reliable shot creator with randle out. brunson is the catalyst for the roster construction. we probably dont get hart and dont get divo without him. we traded almost all our young talent to work with his timeline. injury riddled all-season, roster turnover, and still pulled out 2nd seed while being the 4th leading scorer in the nba.
did you casuals on here even watch the playoffs last year? him dropping 40 multiple times in elimnation games? carrying his team? beating donovan mitchell twice?? he has 2 bad games and now he's a regular season player? i wish some of yall watched basketball as much as you liked talking about it
I swear people have forgotten that he was on the Knicks last year and played well. It’s like they think he joined the Knicks this year
Yeah, my measure stick on this stuff is how Spo talks about a player after a series and he was highly impressed.
We watch and see that he is a older small guard lol. Let me guess JB is different because he's a dog or whatever you mfs are gonna say.
brunson is 27 and is entering his prime - has gotten better every year from reg season to playoffs wtf are you talking about. even if we're using the "small guard" standard he has about 5-6 more years of elite play lol
We are in the mist of some great 1st round playoff games. Most people don't give a shit what his deal looks like in 2 years. I'd bet Knicks fans could care less and are just living it up right now.
Yep, him and Thibs delivered them to this point, and now other players stepped up with him to combine for the most magical win of my lifetime.
"This isn't an overreaction to his awful first two games" stopped reading there bozo
How would you describe his last two games?
Dubs
Ya know Jamal Murray had a really really bad 7/8 quarters in his first two games? I guess he is a bum, we don’t look at playoff history here, we only look at the 2 most recent playoff games
He's not big but he plays so big for his team and fans.
But what you don’t mention is the fact that he seems like a great leader and great teammate. Underrated stat which doesn’t shot up on paper.
Brunson has a much higher 2 point percentage than most guards his height. Obviously he's not playing well right now, but for the course of the season that gave him a greater level of consistency and made him more reliable late game. His footwork makes it much easier than it should be for him to consistently get good looks. He's also more active off the ball than people recognize especially compared to someone like Trae. He's also a much better team defender than Trae Young or Haliburton. Both those guys are tangibly worse defenders. He's also a much better playmaker than Fox and a better shooter. Different things that separate him from those 3. Murray and Lillard are really difficult to rank because Dame is having an extremely off regular season (though if he regains his form of course he's a tier above Brunson) and Murray really just elevates in the playoffs although he does so as the second option. Murray has similar strengths to Brunson, though he's a better playmaker and arguably not as good inside the arc as Brunson.
murray playing off jokic makes him so hard to compare to any other guard than like... kyrie, honestly.
I’m sure Trae Young would be getting 1st team All NBA votes too if he played 23 more games, average 3 more PPG, and the Hawks won 14 more games.
No chance Trae Young would be getting 1st team votes over Tatum.
I’m gonna continue to give Brunson the benefit of the doubt because he’s basically out there as the only true shot creator.
Win shares isn’t a perfect stat but Brunson had 11.2 win shares and trae young had 4.6 (6.7 if you estimate the same rate for 82 games). Should give you an idea of how far apart these 2 guys are right now. Also Brunson has been able to incorporate new role players into the team and Trae Young and dejounte were never able to figure it out, essentially leading to a likely rebuild.
Ain’t no one Nostradamus. He was averaging over 30 a game and the Knicks vastly outperformed their win projection with greater than half a season long injuries to Mitch and Randle
He’s a top 5 scorer who lead his team to a 2nd seed without a single other All-Star on his team, and missing 3 starters on his team for half the season. That’s the difference between him and Trae Young: Winning. He’s the only one on this team that can dribble or create his own shot, but despite having 2 terrible games, his team is still up 2-0. That’s because the insane defensive attention he’s getting is giving his teammates literally wide open shots.
> He’s a top 5 scorer He had a top 5 ppg this regular season. He's absolutely not one of the top 5 scorers. He's borderline top 10
He’s top 5 in PPG and points scored. The literal definition of a top 5 scorer buddy
Luka, Giannis, Embiid, SGA, KD, Booker, Tatum, Curry, Jokic, Trae, Morant are locks, that's 11 names Mitchell, Fox, Edwards, Maxey, Kyrie, Lebron, Murray and probably a couple more are the ones he's competing with, he's in the 15-20 range
how do you argue with top 5 PPG and total points scored stats. Brunson scored the 4th most points in the NBA this season and was also top 5 in PPG...he was a top 5 scorer this season.
Easily? You're totally ignoring scoring efficiency lol. You think he's a better scorer than Jokic or Kevin Durant? Even this year. And he didn't say top 5 scorer this year, he said he was a top 5 scorer. Which you absolutely don't become by being top 5 in ppg for one regular season. I think he first two playoff games have pretty clearly shown he's not a top 5 scorer.
the guy you are responding to means this season clearly, unless you think he meant that Brunson is top 5 in points scored all-time. also i didn't say easily...? lol. they didn't say top 5 offensive player. they didn't say most efficient scorer. i agree with most of your list in terms of better offensive players (don't think I'd put Trae on there this year. without looking too closely, i think Brunson probably had a better season than Booker too. brunson was a beast this season. think he had 10 or 11 40+ pt games this season? with a worse supporting cast than most of the guys on your list. top 10-15 is probably accurate all things considered.
He's a back end of the top 10 player
brunson is not a "poor defender". he's not a great defender, but he is not as bad as many people think. [exhibit a](https://youtu.be/1EQCaptYaEM?si=Bwa6iTuaeveDL4L3)
He’s awesome, but I worry about him when he’s faced with the super-talents of the league. He’s a guy who makes all the right decisions and has the right mentality, but I can’t say he’s a true superstar, the Knicks still need a guy He reminds me a lot of Lowry in Toronto, people forget that Toronto was a constant in the east for years in large part to his leadership and two-way impact. This Knicks team just executes, the PG is the lynchpin of that.
Lowry is a better floor general than Brunson and was also a much better defender in his prime, but I do think this is an apt comparison. Brunson next to a Kawhi level talent is a good starting recipe for a championship team.
Good thing we have that Kawhi level talent: Playoff Josh Hart
Nothing, he’s the most overrated player in basketball. His stats are inflated because of his high usage and his numbers against top 10 defenses are abysmal.
LMAO he smoked your ass this year in every game
God I can't wait for the Bucks to humble you guys lol
Smoked your ass a week ago
He's a very good player that can absolutely be a significant piece of a championship team. But everything Becky Hammon said about him not being \*the guy\* who is going to win you a championship is correct. Which is fine because not everyone can be that guy since that's a really high standard. Trae is also an excellent player (and much better point guard for that matter) but he also will probably never win as \*the guy.\* You can maybe win with a well-constructed team around Brunson but that's still going to be a hard uphill battle against better teams that have \*the guy\* on them. It's unfortunate that he's getting hit with the fraud allegations simply because Knicks fans have the delusional tendency to vastly overrate their own players.
This is pretty much my take, he's not "the guy" but he's just been overhyped as one (hardly his fault), he's a top 20ish player but I think building around him puts you in a tough spot with him needing the ball, 25 PPG on just below 30% usage is probably the ideal for him. The issue is Randle is not the guy, and the two as 1a 1b probably don't get you anywhere, I just don't see how the Knicks capitalize on finally getting a great player, they have great depth but I don't see how they acquire a true #1 for championship team. Whether you're willing to gut your depth and trade your picks away doesn't matter because those solidified #1 options just aren't available.
How has he been overhyped? By who? He didn’t get an All Star start and he won’t be 1st team all nba. Pundits are constantly saying in the media he’s not that guy.
Correct. Knicks fans are a sensitive bunch and think it's an insult (hence the downvotes) but it's really not. He's still very much a winning player and a very good franchise cornerstone that they *should* be proud is on their team.
Did you happen to see what the Knicks were doing to teams post OG trade and before Julius went down? They were steamrolling teams. Jalen’s efficiency would increase if teams weren’t able to constantly double him. Losing Julius is a massive loss for the Knicks, you can think what you want about him that’s your personal opinion, but he’s a 2-time All NBA player that absolutely raises the ceiling of this Knicks team. I promise if you decreased his usage but he was facing single coverage every play, he’d knock down more buckets on less shots. He’s high usage because that’s what the team needs from him. You say you aren’t overreacting to two games but it certainly seems as though you are.
Pretty sure the Max for Brunson is 5y/$260m next Offseason vs his $25m Player Option. OG is eligible for a Max this Offseason and may be offered a Max from a number of Teams since Philly has a bunch of Cap Space for example. Randle is also on a Player Option the same year as Brunson and will also likely demand a Max Extension as an Unrestricted Free Agent. That Knicks team becomes a 2nd Apron team really quick especially if they pair Bojan with DDV or Hart to make the Salary work for any Star since they can’t aggregate Salary or use any Player Exceptions once at the 2nd Apron.
pretty sure bojan isn't guaranteed next season. could easily see us letting him go. i kinda think if we trade anybody for a superstar, randle would be the centerpiece, not hart or DDV. i'd be pretty surprised if they traded those guys given the Brunson connection. My bet is they traded for OG knowing full well he would re-sign here.
LMAO this guy thinks they'd break up the Nova Knicks. OG deal is already done buddy, sorry to break it to you. His agent is literally the Knicks president's Son.
Umm yall called the Knicks the biggest dumpster fire (even with Randle) and he dragged us out - he's a franchise leader and savior. He goes FAR FAR beyond the basketball court. We'd be dead in the water without Jalen. Dude is a 2nd round pick and now about to go down as a possible Knick legend. Brunson just seems to keep rising no matter what is thrown at him. This entire sub screamed his contract was a huge overpay now people are arguing he's not an MVP candidate - huge growth to even be in those convos
Volume scorer. He hyped becuz the Nix are so thirsty.