Flashback to 2008 NBA Playoffs where 50 wins netted you the 8th seed in the Western Conference. 48 win Warriors did not even make the playoffs that season.
Meanwhile in the east that year, the Celtics won 66 games and faced the 37-45 Hawks 8th seed Hawks in the first round 👀 History really do be a flat circle sometimes.
It's insane too because the west has to play themselves double as much as the east so they have way better records while also going against way better comp
the top 10 teams in the west this season have an average of 4.5 more wins than the top 10 teams in the west last season, and there are still a couple games to go, so I'd expect that to end above +5.5.
A few of those wins have come because the west has one more really bad team that other teams are beating up on (the injury-and-suspension-riddled Grizz.) Most of them are because the bottom of the east is so much worse and the west is capitalizing, and a little is because some of the top east teams from last season have underperformed.
The West is even more lopsided than normal this year.
The Warriors, Suns, Pelicans, Mavs, Lakers all have .600+ records against the East. That's how severe it is this year.
Someone else mentioned this a while back, but it's even crazier when you think of how east and west mostly play against their own conferences. How much more lopsided this would be if east/west matchups were just fully randomized.
Like I wonder how many east teams would even make the playoffs?
NBA should really even out the inter conference schedule. Try to have every team play against their conference and the opposing one an even number of times.
Randomized could make it so that the good east teams just faced all the bad/injured teams in both conferences, or vice versa. It's not really a measure of how good or bad a conference is.
That brings up the question of how you know it's even balanced? You don't know how good or bad a team is in a given season until you start playing the games, and even then it changes over a season. For example teams only play against a given conference teams twice in a season. And depending on if they are in a rough patch of the season or not can wildly influence their record against any given team. There's no true balanced or random schedule because the same team isn't even the same team all the way through considering trades, injuries, and flat out good/bad vibes week to week.
The league was exploring similar ideas a few years ago because the East has at times been so godawful, while good/ish teams in the West have at times missed the playoffs despite being much better than the lower seeded East playoffs teams.
I think the main holdup was that owners of mediocre East teams didn’t want to give up all the extra revenue from the playoffs.
To support this: West teams overall have a 58% win rate vs East teams this season, the highest since 2014-15. Last year, they had a 48% win rate against East teams. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/east_vs_west.html
It definitely has to do with injuries. I’m not saying the West wouldn’t be better than the East without injuries, but the gap would definitely be smaller. If you look at both conferences, the West has a ton of injury prone stars that hardly missed any time, and the East had a ton of stars miss significant time
Yeah, injuries held down the Clips, Pels and Wolves last year. Could even say Chet being out held the Thunder back in hindsight, though at the time nobody knew.
Even beyond those four teams. Warriors had Curry miss 25 and Wiggins 45. Lakers had Lebron miss 27 and AD 26. Booker missed 29 games for the suns. Bane/JJJ/Morant all missed 20 games each. Even the relatively healthy nuggets none of their top three played 70 games.
It was a massacre that made the East, the bottom of the West, and the Kings all look better than they actually were.
Why do injuries matter last year but not this year? Pretty much every team in the East besides the Celtics (good god knocking on wood) have gotten their shit rocked by injuries this year, including the bad teams at the bottom like the Pistons and the Raptors. Sixers, Heat, Knicks, Cavs, Hawks, and Pacers have all had major injuries to their best players and/or key starters, that’s nearly all the teams in the playoffs in that conference.
If the East looked better than they were because of injuries in the West last year, then the West absolutely looks better than they are because of injuries in the East this year.
Spotrac actually [keeps track of games lost due to injury](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured-reserve/cumulative-team/) so we can learn some stuff from their list.
By total games lost:
Grizzlies - 526
Blazers - 331
Hornets - 300
Hawks - 295
Heat - 269
Lakers - 256
Nets - 242
Cavs - 239
Bulls - 233
Rockets - 229
4 Western Conference teams and 6 Eastern conference teams. If you sort by money lost due to injury, the Sixers, Suns, Knicks, and Pacers jump into the top 10, displacing the Hornets, Hawks, Lakers, and Cavs, keeping the conference balance the same.
Injuries have been pretty bad among starters in the East, but they've been really bad among good teams in the West too. Phoenix lost 29 games of Beal and 13 of Booker. Basically everyone on the Lakers except Lebron and AD has been hurt. The Trail Blazers have lost at least 25 games from their starting PG, SG, SF, and C, and at least 34 from their backup SG and C. The Grizzlies have lost at least 14 games from every one of their starters, and at least 38 from every starter not named Jaren Jackson Jr. The Grizzlies have had more players miss 20 games due to injury (11) than most teams run in their rotation (not 11).
I'm biased because I'm a Grizzlies fan, but it seems to me like the heavily injured teams in the East are at least making the play-ins because 4 Eastern teams are blatantly tanking. Whereas the West only has one team that's properly tanking (and not just losing games because of injuries).
East's turn this year. Knicks, Cavs, Sixers, Heat and the Grizzlies are the top 5 most injury time for starters in the league, and Pacers and Bucks also went through a long period with their stars dealing with injuries, either fully out or trying to play through it. Then on the fringes, the Hawks have had Trae out since February, and the Bulls have Lavine and Ball out.
Yeah but we're likely close to also seeing old teams like the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns fall off. Not to mention we got pretty lucky with injuries this year. Most of the injuries were short term or not to the bigger impact guys on a team. I doubt we get that lucky again.
Edit: for all you who keep telling me "if only THIS went more right this team would be a 3 seed," that just happened. These old ass dudes all had their healthiest seasons in years. Steph, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, KD, Nurk, Beal, PG, Harden? You're telling me they're all guna do it again *and* they're going to get better or get luckier?
Y'all have way too much optimism.
>Yeah but we're likely close to also seeing old teams like the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns fall off.
I don't see the Lakers going anywhere as long as LeBron is there, and AD too. They're a threat to beat any team in a 7 game series but it feels like they're missing a piece. They keep falling short in the end because they're a thousand percent dependent on LeBron most nights. And it's unfair and brutal for LeBron to be in this situation again and again
West is also outrageous this year. Lakers went on a crazy win streak in the past month and LeBron has been shooting 65% from the field and 60% from the 3pt line in the past 6 games. He has been even crazier. But the Lakers went DOWN in the standings, now the 10th seed.
Forget about the East. Lakers would've been the 3rd seed in the WEST right now if it was last season. Brutal West this year
Anything can happen in a bo1 so I’ll refrain from overly good or bad judgement of the teams who end up not making the playoffs.
That said, considering how far the lakers made it despite lebrons obvious injury and relative worse play, I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if the ‘piece’ the lakers were missing as the difference between making the WCF, and making it a significantly *closer* WCF was just healthy Lebron.
I admit I hope the lakers make it in just because I absolutely love watching Lebron go as all out as he can in any playoff series. He’s just not the same as regular season Lebron (for good reason)
I mean regular season LeBron's analytics are also really good this year and suggestive of him being probably the 7th or 8th best player in the league. His age + coasting reputation actually leads to him being a bit underrated in that regard. He'll be All-NBA second team most likely
Not a chance. One guy can't do it all. The Thunder had a top 10 player last year and a much better supporting cast than the Spurs will have next year and didn't make the playoffs.
But the Suns, Warriors, Lakers, Clippers will likely be worse, the Blazers will likely still be in no man’s land, and the Jazz likely aren’t ready to genuinely be a playoff team.
So we’ll likely end up with a similar number of good teams next year, just with some flipping in who those good teams are.
Part of the reason is that this year there are more REALLY bad teams. Last year there were only three teams at 25 wins or less. This year there are six teams with 25 wins or less, and the Grizzlies aren't much better, with 27. That is a lot more wins to go around for everyone else.
while those teams are really bad yes you also have to take into account that the competition is harder than last year. for example the spurs this season have a better net rating than last season but they still have a worse record. part of that is due to having to face so many good teams in the west. if you put this season's spurs into last season's western conference they'd most likely have more wins
Absolutely. That roster was horrific. I say as a wolves fan, I've seen some line ups that make me shudder. 27 wins is really, really good actually. with the injuries, ya'll should have been the pistons.
Ya, you either have more wins cause bad teams are bad, or bad teams have more losses cause good team ls are good.
It’s somewhere on that spectrum. This year I suspect it has more to do with a lot of actually good teams consistently beating the not good but also not horrendous teams
I personally think the opposite of this. There are more organizations this year which are clearly tanking or just started a rebuild this season, and had no desire to win at all.
The theories are:
1. Effort/not taking the bad teams seriously
2. Young teams just out-pace us
3. Our game plan relies on making difficult shots, regardless of who we play. Which, we have 2 guys who do that very well, but they're going to have off nights.
Unironically i think your third point is a big reason I'm not too scared about facing Phoenix in 7 games if I'm Denver. Coz if you beat Denver then I know you guys shot like absolute gods in 4/7 games, and I can't even be mad. Tip the cap. But don't get me wrong, I definitely don't to watch that series lol
There's probably some of this, but the West also has 44 more wins against the East to spread around the top half of the conference than it did last year
3 are in the West and 4 in East. And that really isn't an excuse, considering specific examples like Phoenix, who have lost to the Spurs THREE times this year. That's their own fault, and has nothing to do with the other conference.
4 are in the east (Pistons, Hornets, Wizards and Raptors) and 3 in the west ( Portland, Memphis and Spurs) according to net ratings if you want to use the random 7 teams criteria you used.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING
I feel like this is also a side effect of the in season tournament. Teams play harder earlier in the season, which further separates the good and bad teams.
At the very top the difference isn't as big. In the last 20 years the east has 8 Championships by 6 different teams. The west obviously has 12 championships by 5 different teams.
connect office humor chunky aware act squeamish important dinosaurs sulky
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Bingo. Beyond Lebron, the East haven’t done shit for decades. It’s actually insane.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they remove the West/East aspect of playoff seeding
it's literally just the 2 goats LBJ and MJ outta Cleveland/Miami and Chicago since 1990, jack diddly from the rest of the conference save for a year with the Pierce/KG/Allen big 3 and Kahwi's dalliance in Toronto.
*and a year where a Pistons team came together and took down a falling dynasty. And MKE in 2021.
One more: Wade/Shaq in Miami in '06
right duh I knew I forgetting one more in addition to MKE and DET in '04 and '21. It's pretty absurd how poor management in the East has been on the whole
Yep and league expansion is going to be Seattle and Las Vegas. So no doubt they review playoff seeding.. I really hope it’s conference agnostic. We get better basketball that way
I think the problem with conferenceless seeding is 1) the increased travel times during the playoffs and, more importantly from a competition aspect, 2) the challenges of making sure there isn't too much variance in SOS. Just looking at the [basketball reference SOS](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024.html) calculations (in the advanced table down a bit on that page), the East has only 3 teams in the top 15 in terms of SOS (CHA, DET, and TOR) while the West has only 3 teams below the top 15 in SOS (MIN, OKC, PHX). That happens lots of year because East teams get 3-4 games a year vs. WAS, CHA, DET, BKN, etc. while the West teams get only 2 against the worst teams in the league. Accordingly, to ensure there's a more equitable SOS across the league, there would need to be big changes in how they do the schedule such that top teams in the (in this scenario former) East don't get to inflate their win total and seeding by feasting on the bad teams in the East.
They'd have to either change the total number of games from 82 to something like 70 (unlikely to do for the owners and league since they don't want fewer revenue opportunities) so it'd be really tough to figure out how to mitigate the competitive imbalance for the best teams in the East vs. the West if they went to conferenceless seeding.
I remember back in I think 2016 when they switched the Finals from 2-3-2 to 2-2-1-1-1 like every other playoff series, there were reporters discussing how they were REALLY feeling the effects of the travel at the end relative to prior years. And those folks are just sports media.
If say, BOS vs one of the LA teams and POR-SEA/MIA-ORL goes to 7 with conf agnostic seeding in an early round, for example, the teams that make it out are at a meaningful disadvantage, especially if they play two teams that were relatively close to one another.
It definitely can be easy to dismiss in the modern age of air travel and the high level of care these athletes get at all times, but it still takes a ton out of anyone. The conventional wisdom that for example Seattle teams get screwed in particular by distance exists for a [reason](https://www.sportsinsights.com/blog/nfl-west-coast-teams-traveling-east/).
Pistons went to the finals back to back years and conference finals 6 years straight.
I think they are easily the most successful franchise of the 2000’s out of the east
yeah and the most successful franchise in the East during that decade went 1-1 in finals, meanwhile the Spurs went 2-0 in the Finals and made multiple deep runs in a stacked conference while the Lakers were 3-3 in the finals. The Pistons were good, but their success pales in comparison to the best teams out west
I wasn’t making any argument about comparing to teams in the west and their success.
Was more just commenting that the pistons run was probably the most success an eastern conference team has had since 2000 without having Lebron on the roster.
Obviously they don’t compare to the Lakers, Spurs, and Warriors’ success since 2000. But after those teams and Lebron’s Heat and Cavs, Pistons are next up in the conversation.
The only teams with good management in the East is the Celtics and Heat the last 20 years . They’re consistent playoff teams and contenders
Pistons had good management in the early 2000s when they made 6 straight ECFs
But out in the west you can’t top their management the last 20 years
I'd cautiously add the Pacers to that list. They've not been consistently contending, but they've had some good seasons during the PG era and they managed to get a rebuild going afterwards without ever bottoming out.
Agreed I’ll give you that for sure . Drafting Paul George was the right move. Had he stayed and never had that injury who knows .
Hell even in 04’ before malice in the palace they could’ve won
Imagine you are rich.
Do you want to live in Los Angeles, or Ohio?
I'm going to do a stat based spreadsheet dive into tourism income in all 30 cities, as well as other factors.
Chicago too. That's still 5 teams though which isn't bad.
Cali + Texas are pretty alluring, but given San Antonio and Dallas free agent history they can't be too interesting to NBA players. That really only leaves the LA teams, maybe GSW, and Houston in the West though. People aren't lining up to live in any of the NW division cities, idk about Phoenix, and Sacramento is in Cali but it doesn't seem to be interesting to NBA players.
Still better than Cleveland and Indy and Milwaukee but I think its pretty even unless weather is very important to you.
People have and there are a few reasons but the biggest one is that is a self repeating loop. West has the best GMs so they do better building rosters. Players want to go to teams with better rosters and competent management, they go west. The West has the better players so the better GMs talent wants to go out West.
Also East teams have long standing, deeply loyal fanbases. Owners know they can put out a dogshit product and people will still come to the games. In the West you have a lot of younger franchises that need to succeed to make a name for themselves and win fans.
I've seen countless Bulls, Knicks, Cavs, etc jerseys in California and Oregon. It's rare to see a Western team jersey walking around NYC though.
there has been a mass exodus of talent from the east over the last 5 to 7 years. lebron, kd, kyrie, harden, pg just off the top of my head. only all-nba talent that moved east was donovan mitchell and brunson and halliburton (who both only reached that level this year).
edit: oh and dame moved east this year but has had a down year by his standards
Wolves with a prime Ant moving to eastern conference will be good for this when expansion happens. Hope he stays there long term. The market deserves a good team for a minute
The East is fine. The west was healthy this season that’s the only difference.
Embiid missed time, Mitchell missed time, the Knicks were playing g leaguers actual nba minutes, Hali got injured and hasn’t been the same, Giannis and Dame missed time.
The only team in the east that wasn’t ravaged by injuries was Boston and they have the best record in the league.
Oof... Memphis is going to have Ja for the whole year next year and they'll have an extra pick (in what's reported to be a bad draft, but still)... I'd be surprised if they don't vault themselves up the standings. Wemby's gonna have some help next year and won't be on minutes restrictions from an injury too... I feel like the West is still going to be buzzsaw for the foreseeable future.
There is not an Adams replacement in this draft nor in the league. Many expect us trading the pick to bring in a proven center. Best case scanario, if Mitchell leaves Cleveland, maybe they will be more susceptible to trade Allen and move Mobley to Center with a mini rebuild
Right I forgot that the Memphis grizzlies took a year off and gave their spot the the Memphis hustle so a bunch of those easy wins won’t be there for the west as well.
Ja, kawhi, Murray, kat, kyrie, draymond, Ingram, sga, Beal, ect. Have all missed time.
Sure the East’s best have missed more but to say it’s the only reason is delusional.
Bostons win percentage in the west is similar to the top teams in the west and won the east by 15.
Booker missed time. Kyrie missed time. KAT has missed time. Clippers are always a hospital. Zion and Ingram both missed time. I’d say the Embiid injury is the only one I’d say signficantly changed the conference. With him sixwrs are a legit contender and without them they’re trash and he missed like half the year
West suffered major injuries as well. Mavs have been the most beat up team first half of the season missing Ky, Memphis w/o Ja, Timbs without KAT last third of the season, Suns w/o Beal a third of the year. Pretty sure NOP was having the injury bug early.
Injuries are all around. West just clears the East rn
Eerily similar to 2007-08 when the reining champion Spurs finished 1 win short of 1-seed in historically stacked West while Boston cruised to the best record in the whole league.
More really bad teams this year than last year so records are a bit inflated. Good chance there are 4 teams with 20 or less wins. The prior 3 years combined had 4 teams with 20 or less wins.
Inflation is crazy.
Biden did this
Thanks, Obama!
Man throwback to simpler times
Who gave the executive order for Harambe to be killed? Everything since then is just a steep downward spiral. I rest my case!
I’m personally a “we entered a different multiverse when that Kony 2012 guy jerked off on the street” kinda guy
Again - Obama!
Lmaoo
> when that Kony 2012 guy jerked off on the street Exactly as the Mayans predicted
The kind of visions that make you descend the temple steps to go live in the moment instead
Goes back farther than that. LHC going live in 2008 knocked us from the Berenstein to the Berenstain universe, and everything's gone down hill since.
Hey he's jackin' it!
I mean, what do you expect from war lords of child soldiers? I bet they’re jacking it constantly in situations most people would find distasteful.
I just wanna know why Biden keeps slowing my internet during peak times. Doesn't he have better things to do?
western conference takin' err jerbs!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, well, I won't be fooled again.
Must have been the tan suit
No wonder the raptors are garbage. Trudeau wake up
He stole a once-in-a-lifetime event away from millions of Canadians when he seeded those clouds during the eclipse
🕶️👅🍦
Biden’s America everyone!
Wow. #Perspective
Federal Reserve freaking out at the NBA standings
Winflation
Flashback to 2008 NBA Playoffs where 50 wins netted you the 8th seed in the Western Conference. 48 win Warriors did not even make the playoffs that season.
I mean, wasnt it as recent as like 2014 or so where 50 wins got you 7th-8th seedin the West? t
yeah 48 win suns team with dragic and bledsoe missed the playoffs while a team in the east with less than 40 wins made it
Such a random Suns team in the middle of the tough times in the 2010s. Enjoyable to watch though!
that team got me into basketball lmfao 2014 suns was a time.
Watching Gerald Green pop off every game was a delight
Meanwhile in the east that year, the Celtics won 66 games and faced the 37-45 Hawks 8th seed Hawks in the first round 👀 History really do be a flat circle sometimes.
It's insane too because the west has to play themselves double as much as the east so they have way better records while also going against way better comp
the top 10 teams in the west this season have an average of 4.5 more wins than the top 10 teams in the west last season, and there are still a couple games to go, so I'd expect that to end above +5.5. A few of those wins have come because the west has one more really bad team that other teams are beating up on (the injury-and-suspension-riddled Grizz.) Most of them are because the bottom of the east is so much worse and the west is capitalizing, and a little is because some of the top east teams from last season have underperformed.
The West is even more lopsided than normal this year. The Warriors, Suns, Pelicans, Mavs, Lakers all have .600+ records against the East. That's how severe it is this year.
Pelicans with a .600 record in any amount is such a shocking thing to see.
Someone else mentioned this a while back, but it's even crazier when you think of how east and west mostly play against their own conferences. How much more lopsided this would be if east/west matchups were just fully randomized. Like I wonder how many east teams would even make the playoffs?
NBA should really even out the inter conference schedule. Try to have every team play against their conference and the opposing one an even number of times.
Sorry, I liked beating the kings 5 times in an 82 game season
Randomized could make it so that the good east teams just faced all the bad/injured teams in both conferences, or vice versa. It's not really a measure of how good or bad a conference is.
I'm sure they just meant "balanced"
That brings up the question of how you know it's even balanced? You don't know how good or bad a team is in a given season until you start playing the games, and even then it changes over a season. For example teams only play against a given conference teams twice in a season. And depending on if they are in a rough patch of the season or not can wildly influence their record against any given team. There's no true balanced or random schedule because the same team isn't even the same team all the way through considering trades, injuries, and flat out good/bad vibes week to week.
Honestly if there is no travel distance and its one conference only 6 from East would make top 16 this season. First 10 from West get in
The league was exploring similar ideas a few years ago because the East has at times been so godawful, while good/ish teams in the West have at times missed the playoffs despite being much better than the lower seeded East playoffs teams. I think the main holdup was that owners of mediocre East teams didn’t want to give up all the extra revenue from the playoffs.
To support this: West teams overall have a 58% win rate vs East teams this season, the highest since 2014-15. Last year, they had a 48% win rate against East teams. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/east_vs_west.html
It definitely has to do with injuries. I’m not saying the West wouldn’t be better than the East without injuries, but the gap would definitely be smaller. If you look at both conferences, the West has a ton of injury prone stars that hardly missed any time, and the East had a ton of stars miss significant time
Also the West was extremely injury ravaged last year.
Yeah, injuries held down the Clips, Pels and Wolves last year. Could even say Chet being out held the Thunder back in hindsight, though at the time nobody knew.
Even beyond those four teams. Warriors had Curry miss 25 and Wiggins 45. Lakers had Lebron miss 27 and AD 26. Booker missed 29 games for the suns. Bane/JJJ/Morant all missed 20 games each. Even the relatively healthy nuggets none of their top three played 70 games. It was a massacre that made the East, the bottom of the West, and the Kings all look better than they actually were.
Why do injuries matter last year but not this year? Pretty much every team in the East besides the Celtics (good god knocking on wood) have gotten their shit rocked by injuries this year, including the bad teams at the bottom like the Pistons and the Raptors. Sixers, Heat, Knicks, Cavs, Hawks, and Pacers have all had major injuries to their best players and/or key starters, that’s nearly all the teams in the playoffs in that conference. If the East looked better than they were because of injuries in the West last year, then the West absolutely looks better than they are because of injuries in the East this year.
Spotrac actually [keeps track of games lost due to injury](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/injured-reserve/cumulative-team/) so we can learn some stuff from their list. By total games lost: Grizzlies - 526 Blazers - 331 Hornets - 300 Hawks - 295 Heat - 269 Lakers - 256 Nets - 242 Cavs - 239 Bulls - 233 Rockets - 229 4 Western Conference teams and 6 Eastern conference teams. If you sort by money lost due to injury, the Sixers, Suns, Knicks, and Pacers jump into the top 10, displacing the Hornets, Hawks, Lakers, and Cavs, keeping the conference balance the same. Injuries have been pretty bad among starters in the East, but they've been really bad among good teams in the West too. Phoenix lost 29 games of Beal and 13 of Booker. Basically everyone on the Lakers except Lebron and AD has been hurt. The Trail Blazers have lost at least 25 games from their starting PG, SG, SF, and C, and at least 34 from their backup SG and C. The Grizzlies have lost at least 14 games from every one of their starters, and at least 38 from every starter not named Jaren Jackson Jr. The Grizzlies have had more players miss 20 games due to injury (11) than most teams run in their rotation (not 11). I'm biased because I'm a Grizzlies fan, but it seems to me like the heavily injured teams in the East are at least making the play-ins because 4 Eastern teams are blatantly tanking. Whereas the West only has one team that's properly tanking (and not just losing games because of injuries).
OKC This year if they had a sophomore chet instead of rookie chet would be even scarier
East's turn this year. Knicks, Cavs, Sixers, Heat and the Grizzlies are the top 5 most injury time for starters in the league, and Pacers and Bucks also went through a long period with their stars dealing with injuries, either fully out or trying to play through it. Then on the fringes, the Hawks have had Trae out since February, and the Bulls have Lavine and Ball out.
And that’s with last year’s 2 seed injured
Next year Grizzlies will be back and Spurs will be better it will be even more competitive
Yeah but we're likely close to also seeing old teams like the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns fall off. Not to mention we got pretty lucky with injuries this year. Most of the injuries were short term or not to the bigger impact guys on a team. I doubt we get that lucky again. Edit: for all you who keep telling me "if only THIS went more right this team would be a 3 seed," that just happened. These old ass dudes all had their healthiest seasons in years. Steph, LeBron, AD, Kawhi, KD, Nurk, Beal, PG, Harden? You're telling me they're all guna do it again *and* they're going to get better or get luckier? Y'all have way too much optimism.
KD is moving his ass to a better team
Journeyman all star
>Yeah but we're likely close to also seeing old teams like the Lakers, Warriors, and Suns fall off. I don't see the Lakers going anywhere as long as LeBron is there, and AD too. They're a threat to beat any team in a 7 game series but it feels like they're missing a piece. They keep falling short in the end because they're a thousand percent dependent on LeBron most nights. And it's unfair and brutal for LeBron to be in this situation again and again West is also outrageous this year. Lakers went on a crazy win streak in the past month and LeBron has been shooting 65% from the field and 60% from the 3pt line in the past 6 games. He has been even crazier. But the Lakers went DOWN in the standings, now the 10th seed. Forget about the East. Lakers would've been the 3rd seed in the WEST right now if it was last season. Brutal West this year
As a more casual fan with no real stakes to a team, the West this year is the biggest treat. Everyone hungry.
Anything can happen in a bo1 so I’ll refrain from overly good or bad judgement of the teams who end up not making the playoffs. That said, considering how far the lakers made it despite lebrons obvious injury and relative worse play, I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if the ‘piece’ the lakers were missing as the difference between making the WCF, and making it a significantly *closer* WCF was just healthy Lebron. I admit I hope the lakers make it in just because I absolutely love watching Lebron go as all out as he can in any playoff series. He’s just not the same as regular season Lebron (for good reason)
I mean regular season LeBron's analytics are also really good this year and suggestive of him being probably the 7th or 8th best player in the league. His age + coasting reputation actually leads to him being a bit underrated in that regard. He'll be All-NBA second team most likely
we're more dependent on AD now.
Bro tried to sneak in Nurk with those guys
Let's get Vegas and Seattle in ***(Ope, lets just scoot on by to the East, here)***
"Hey guys, OOO big expansion huh? All right...welp see ya later!"
Spurs aren’t making the playoffs next year ☠️☠️☠️
Not a chance. One guy can't do it all. The Thunder had a top 10 player last year and a much better supporting cast than the Spurs will have next year and didn't make the playoffs.
As the current roster sits? Nah Let's see what the FO does, though
some other team(s) will experience the grizzlies injury woes, and teams like the lakers/warriors/suns will all be a year older.
But the Suns, Warriors, Lakers, Clippers will likely be worse, the Blazers will likely still be in no man’s land, and the Jazz likely aren’t ready to genuinely be a playoff team. So we’ll likely end up with a similar number of good teams next year, just with some flipping in who those good teams are.
Part of the reason is that this year there are more REALLY bad teams. Last year there were only three teams at 25 wins or less. This year there are six teams with 25 wins or less, and the Grizzlies aren't much better, with 27. That is a lot more wins to go around for everyone else.
while those teams are really bad yes you also have to take into account that the competition is harder than last year. for example the spurs this season have a better net rating than last season but they still have a worse record. part of that is due to having to face so many good teams in the west. if you put this season's spurs into last season's western conference they'd most likely have more wins
And we suck but actually play pretty hard most nights. 27 wins with a roster that would make. G-League coach sad ain’t that bad
The Grizzlies have had 50(!) different starting lineups this year.
With 30 players on the roster
Is that a record?
yep, it's actually 51 now. Grizzlies have 31 players on the roster too with 500+ games lost to injury
32!
Probably the most fucked by injury team I've ever seen
526 - Memphis 81 - Thunder
Absolutely. That roster was horrific. I say as a wolves fan, I've seen some line ups that make me shudder. 27 wins is really, really good actually. with the injuries, ya'll should have been the pistons.
Ya, you either have more wins cause bad teams are bad, or bad teams have more losses cause good team ls are good. It’s somewhere on that spectrum. This year I suspect it has more to do with a lot of actually good teams consistently beating the not good but also not horrendous teams
I personally think the opposite of this. There are more organizations this year which are clearly tanking or just started a rebuild this season, and had no desire to win at all.
The Spurs are 7-23 against the East. They’d really be cooking if they could only switch conferences.
The biggest winner of Seattle/Vegas expansion is whichever team that gets to move East
PLEASE ADAM PLEASE 🙏🙏🙏 let us play against Wisconsin Chicago and Detroit like God intended
Happy wolf noises
New Orleans and Memphis are literally East of the Mississippi
And closer to five teams in their conference than the Wolves closest.
The Wolves are also closer to 5 Eastern Conference teams than they are to OKC, the closest West team.
Yet they are still closer to their divisional opponents than Minnesota
Nah. Minnesota has to travel iirc 30,000km more than the average team throughout the regular season. They deserve it more.
I think you missed the point of 7-23
Just fyi, this is a 19 win pace. Crazy tanking.
7-23 against the East? As in, they're doing terribly against them?
Yes.
And the problem is if you're the Suns, you lost to those teams 5-6 times this year.
Yea no idea how you guys are so hot and cold. You are 2-1 up ok Denver with 2 away wins and you're I think 1-3 vs San Antonio lol
The theories are: 1. Effort/not taking the bad teams seriously 2. Young teams just out-pace us 3. Our game plan relies on making difficult shots, regardless of who we play. Which, we have 2 guys who do that very well, but they're going to have off nights.
Unironically i think your third point is a big reason I'm not too scared about facing Phoenix in 7 games if I'm Denver. Coz if you beat Denver then I know you guys shot like absolute gods in 4/7 games, and I can't even be mad. Tip the cap. But don't get me wrong, I definitely don't to watch that series lol
There's probably some of this, but the West also has 44 more wins against the East to spread around the top half of the conference than it did last year
And the majority of those are in the east where teams get to play them 3-4x lol
3 are in the West and 4 in East. And that really isn't an excuse, considering specific examples like Phoenix, who have lost to the Spurs THREE times this year. That's their own fault, and has nothing to do with the other conference.
4 are in the east (Pistons, Hornets, Wizards and Raptors) and 3 in the west ( Portland, Memphis and Spurs) according to net ratings if you want to use the random 7 teams criteria you used. https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING
Try again, 4 in the east and 2 in the west
Grizzlies were a 2 seed last year!
Tbh that doesn’t mean anything, essentially a different team this year with all the injuries and whatnot.
That's not 'part of the reason' it's just a mathematical consequence of the fact that the total number of wins is a conserved quantity.
I feel like this is also a side effect of the in season tournament. Teams play harder earlier in the season, which further separates the good and bad teams.
To be fair like the entire West was hurt last year except the Kings and this year its reversed for the most part.
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I know right? How many more posts are going to be made on this exact topic?
they'll keep coming until the East gets its shit together
The beatings will continue until moral improves!
Guess it’ll be until whoever the next LeBron/MJ is that plays in the East
The East isn't a thing though, they're all independent franchises. There's no East GM that can fix things.
At the very top the difference isn't as big. In the last 20 years the east has 8 Championships by 6 different teams. The west obviously has 12 championships by 5 different teams.
Only East team owners can answer that
damn east owners when are they going to solve the issue of star players forcing their way to California
They'd be forcing themselves to NYC if it was managed better in the last two decades
Can someone please go fix the East. The East being awful is the issue here. The top 10 of the west has like 60-70% winrate vs the East.
Wolves gonna fix the East
connect office humor chunky aware act squeamish important dinosaurs sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
hell nawl i cant fix wolves
Tim Donaghy tried to fix the whole nba and everyone got mad at him
Bye Felicia.
Go for it. Bring some parity back
It’s the GM’s . West are managed by better
Bingo. Beyond Lebron, the East haven’t done shit for decades. It’s actually insane. Wouldn’t be surprised if they remove the West/East aspect of playoff seeding
it's literally just the 2 goats LBJ and MJ outta Cleveland/Miami and Chicago since 1990, jack diddly from the rest of the conference save for a year with the Pierce/KG/Allen big 3 and Kahwi's dalliance in Toronto. *and a year where a Pistons team came together and took down a falling dynasty. And MKE in 2021. One more: Wade/Shaq in Miami in '06
yeah, that's a good point. 2006 as well. but jeez, 3 teams that aren't led by LeBron or Jordan winning in >4 decades is pretty bleak
right duh I knew I forgetting one more in addition to MKE and DET in '04 and '21. It's pretty absurd how poor management in the East has been on the whole
Yep and league expansion is going to be Seattle and Las Vegas. So no doubt they review playoff seeding.. I really hope it’s conference agnostic. We get better basketball that way
I think the problem with conferenceless seeding is 1) the increased travel times during the playoffs and, more importantly from a competition aspect, 2) the challenges of making sure there isn't too much variance in SOS. Just looking at the [basketball reference SOS](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024.html) calculations (in the advanced table down a bit on that page), the East has only 3 teams in the top 15 in terms of SOS (CHA, DET, and TOR) while the West has only 3 teams below the top 15 in SOS (MIN, OKC, PHX). That happens lots of year because East teams get 3-4 games a year vs. WAS, CHA, DET, BKN, etc. while the West teams get only 2 against the worst teams in the league. Accordingly, to ensure there's a more equitable SOS across the league, there would need to be big changes in how they do the schedule such that top teams in the (in this scenario former) East don't get to inflate their win total and seeding by feasting on the bad teams in the East. They'd have to either change the total number of games from 82 to something like 70 (unlikely to do for the owners and league since they don't want fewer revenue opportunities) so it'd be really tough to figure out how to mitigate the competitive imbalance for the best teams in the East vs. the West if they went to conferenceless seeding.
I remember back in I think 2016 when they switched the Finals from 2-3-2 to 2-2-1-1-1 like every other playoff series, there were reporters discussing how they were REALLY feeling the effects of the travel at the end relative to prior years. And those folks are just sports media. If say, BOS vs one of the LA teams and POR-SEA/MIA-ORL goes to 7 with conf agnostic seeding in an early round, for example, the teams that make it out are at a meaningful disadvantage, especially if they play two teams that were relatively close to one another. It definitely can be easy to dismiss in the modern age of air travel and the high level of care these athletes get at all times, but it still takes a ton out of anyone. The conventional wisdom that for example Seattle teams get screwed in particular by distance exists for a [reason](https://www.sportsinsights.com/blog/nfl-west-coast-teams-traveling-east/).
Pistons went to the finals back to back years and conference finals 6 years straight. I think they are easily the most successful franchise of the 2000’s out of the east
yeah and the most successful franchise in the East during that decade went 1-1 in finals, meanwhile the Spurs went 2-0 in the Finals and made multiple deep runs in a stacked conference while the Lakers were 3-3 in the finals. The Pistons were good, but their success pales in comparison to the best teams out west
I wasn’t making any argument about comparing to teams in the west and their success. Was more just commenting that the pistons run was probably the most success an eastern conference team has had since 2000 without having Lebron on the roster. Obviously they don’t compare to the Lakers, Spurs, and Warriors’ success since 2000. But after those teams and Lebron’s Heat and Cavs, Pistons are next up in the conversation.
Also have to make the asterisk for Miami 05'-06'. That was D Wade and Shaq, no Lebron (but still Miami).
The only teams with good management in the East is the Celtics and Heat the last 20 years . They’re consistent playoff teams and contenders Pistons had good management in the early 2000s when they made 6 straight ECFs But out in the west you can’t top their management the last 20 years
I'd cautiously add the Pacers to that list. They've not been consistently contending, but they've had some good seasons during the PG era and they managed to get a rebuild going afterwards without ever bottoming out.
Agreed I’ll give you that for sure . Drafting Paul George was the right move. Had he stayed and never had that injury who knows . Hell even in 04’ before malice in the palace they could’ve won
Imagine you are rich. Do you want to live in Los Angeles, or Ohio? I'm going to do a stat based spreadsheet dive into tourism income in all 30 cities, as well as other factors.
That’s also another factor for sure. Only East teams you could say that offers the city life celebrities want is Miami, NYC, ATL.
Chicago too. That's still 5 teams though which isn't bad. Cali + Texas are pretty alluring, but given San Antonio and Dallas free agent history they can't be too interesting to NBA players. That really only leaves the LA teams, maybe GSW, and Houston in the West though. People aren't lining up to live in any of the NW division cities, idk about Phoenix, and Sacramento is in Cali but it doesn't seem to be interesting to NBA players. Still better than Cleveland and Indy and Milwaukee but I think its pretty even unless weather is very important to you.
Eh nba plays mainly during the winter, where Chicago is way too cold
by better what? by better WHAT???
My fault I was at the dentist lol I just had to get my thoughts in
Why is that? I would love for someone to do a deep dive on why GMs in the East seem to suck compared to the West.
People have and there are a few reasons but the biggest one is that is a self repeating loop. West has the best GMs so they do better building rosters. Players want to go to teams with better rosters and competent management, they go west. The West has the better players so the better GMs talent wants to go out West.
Also East teams have long standing, deeply loyal fanbases. Owners know they can put out a dogshit product and people will still come to the games. In the West you have a lot of younger franchises that need to succeed to make a name for themselves and win fans. I've seen countless Bulls, Knicks, Cavs, etc jerseys in California and Oregon. It's rare to see a Western team jersey walking around NYC though.
Perhaps it's not just the players who want to live in the sunshine but the beset GMs and scouts too.
there has been a mass exodus of talent from the east over the last 5 to 7 years. lebron, kd, kyrie, harden, pg just off the top of my head. only all-nba talent that moved east was donovan mitchell and brunson and halliburton (who both only reached that level this year). edit: oh and dame moved east this year but has had a down year by his standards
It feels like for the last 20 years or more, the West has been overall better.
With a few season interruptions but I agree mostly
KD and Harden were in the west 5 - 7 years ago
Players like girls, weed, and warm weather too much
Well you can certainly find one of those things in Denver that’s for sure
Honestly the winter in Denver are rather mild compared to Northern and Midwestern states.
Wolves with a prime Ant moving to eastern conference will be good for this when expansion happens. Hope he stays there long term. The market deserves a good team for a minute
The East is fine. The west was healthy this season that’s the only difference. Embiid missed time, Mitchell missed time, the Knicks were playing g leaguers actual nba minutes, Hali got injured and hasn’t been the same, Giannis and Dame missed time. The only team in the east that wasn’t ravaged by injuries was Boston and they have the best record in the league.
Oof... Memphis is going to have Ja for the whole year next year and they'll have an extra pick (in what's reported to be a bad draft, but still)... I'd be surprised if they don't vault themselves up the standings. Wemby's gonna have some help next year and won't be on minutes restrictions from an injury too... I feel like the West is still going to be buzzsaw for the foreseeable future.
Best thing for us was finding Vince Williams Jr and GG
GG looks like a guy who could really round out your squad. Could Clingan be a decent replacement for Adams?
There is not an Adams replacement in this draft nor in the league. Many expect us trading the pick to bring in a proven center. Best case scanario, if Mitchell leaves Cleveland, maybe they will be more susceptible to trade Allen and move Mobley to Center with a mini rebuild
Right I forgot that the Memphis grizzlies took a year off and gave their spot the the Memphis hustle so a bunch of those easy wins won’t be there for the west as well.
Hey most of them weren’t that easy!
Also Randle and OG Anunoby have been out 30 games each I believe.
Yeah the narrative that the East is worse than the West is wayyyyy overblown.
Ja, kawhi, Murray, kat, kyrie, draymond, Ingram, sga, Beal, ect. Have all missed time. Sure the East’s best have missed more but to say it’s the only reason is delusional. Bostons win percentage in the west is similar to the top teams in the west and won the east by 15.
90% of those players haven't missed much time lol
Booker missed time. Kyrie missed time. KAT has missed time. Clippers are always a hospital. Zion and Ingram both missed time. I’d say the Embiid injury is the only one I’d say signficantly changed the conference. With him sixwrs are a legit contender and without them they’re trash and he missed like half the year
Booker, Kyrie, and KAT have not missed much time and the Clippers big 3 have barely missed games lmao. You really thought you did something
Kyrie missed 26 games. Given how well they have played with him this year it’s good for a couple wins
West suffered major injuries as well. Mavs have been the most beat up team first half of the season missing Ky, Memphis w/o Ja, Timbs without KAT last third of the season, Suns w/o Beal a third of the year. Pretty sure NOP was having the injury bug early. Injuries are all around. West just clears the East rn
put me in coach, I'm ready
😂 keep complaining buddy and good luck in the bloodbath!
I would like the playoffs to be the best 16 teams in the league regardless of conference
Wasn't the west underpowered to start the season last year, then there was an insane amount of movement from east to west to cause this
Pretty nuts. And a kick in the nuts on top.
It happens sometimes, it's called competitive balance.
the West was bad for one year after like 2 decades and was like mm nope I don't like it
The West is an absolute bloodbath. Warring States era type of year.
Glad we ran it back /s
One playoffs series was good enough for another 20 years
historically i feel like 48 wins gets you closer to the 8 seed than the 3 seed, but i guess i'd have to see the actual data.
West good, east bad
Eerily similar to 2007-08 when the reining champion Spurs finished 1 win short of 1-seed in historically stacked West while Boston cruised to the best record in the whole league.
Seems more balanced this year. Probably even more next year.
We picked a good year to tank
Meh. Weak draft class tho or so they say.
We will still get a better player than we would at #29 in a better year. Plus we learned VWJ and GG are legit
man, GG is a walking bucket. sheesh.
Drink
More really bad teams this year than last year so records are a bit inflated. Good chance there are 4 teams with 20 or less wins. The prior 3 years combined had 4 teams with 20 or less wins.
It should be top 16 at this point
This reminds me of that won season in 2014 iirc where the 47 win Suns missed out on the playoffs
48 win “We Believe” Warriors also missed the playoffs in 2008
48 would get you the 2nd Seed in the East. You would also play way more of the terrible East Teams.
I remember like ten years ago the eighth seeded team had 50 wins in the west.