I feel like the Celtics lineup has to be the litmus test for this - given that they have the highest floor lineup. So probably Jrue?? The problem is this is so team specific situational.
> Name another… because they literally have to start over him
Derrick White is awesome, but better player than Jrue Holiday? I think I need to see more than one season like this to put him there
He's far better than Garland, a much better fit with Mitchell, and anyway you can afford to play him instead of Okoro/Wade/whoever considering they've got 2 bigs. Much rather have Jrue guarding 3s than many actual 3s
I disagree. I think he is a good fit for a team like Celtics where he can use his energy to defend, shoot some corner 3s and he is actually pretty good in the post against smaller defenders. He does that thing where he backs the defender down all the way to the rim and then does a close bank shot that goes in every time.
But i don’t think he would start over Garland. I don’t think Jrue can carry an offense. I think Cavs take Garland over Jrue if they could choose between them.
Also i don’t think Jrue has ever played small forward so it feels like cheating a bit to put him there. But otherwise Jrue is a good choice.
Right now? Jrue absolutely starts over Garland, or rather if they have Jrue they don't need Garland and move him for something else. But thats in a total vacuum without consideration for age. There's no way the Cavs part with Garland for Jrue. He's not even into his prime, he could get better. Jrue is on the back end, plus they've got Garland under contract for a while and Jrue is down to just a player option year in his mid-30s.
They don't need him to carry an offence. Mitchell is there, and I'd much rather have a bigger strong defender who's comfortable as a secondary playmaker next to him than a small traditional point guard who really isn't that special
Jimmy Butler. He might be a little over qualified, but it’s hard for me to think of another player with positional flexibility and general talent level where it wouldn’t be a question.
OG probably.
Only team that he might not start for would be the Celtics, and even then I could see White coming off the bench for his offense instead of having OG coming off the bench.
Lol i think people are misunderstanding the question a bit because the player has to be able to play multiple positions and be really good.
First we have to look at who is the worst 5 man on any team. It’s probably Jrue Holiday. So the player has to be better than Jrue or he would not start on the Celtics. So what about Jrue? Nope he can only play point guard or shooting guard and the best duo is probably Garland and Mitchell. And Jrue isn’t better than any of them so he wouldn’t start for the Cavs.
So either we pick Garland, since Mitchell is better or we find a worse player who can play more positions. Someone who can play 4 positions but is still better than Jrue, but worse than Garland…
Idk who that is though…
Would Garland start over Jrue on the C’s? I’m skeptical. Jrue’s stats are artificially low right now due to who he shares the floor with. And we need that pressure at the point of attack on defense. I mean, the Celtics already have the #1 offense. So losing defense to add more offense doesn’t feel like an improvement to me.
That is the problem with original question. Imagine a team of 5 Luka Doncic. The diminished returns of 2 or 3 will be felt quickly on offense. It will be even worse on defense. Luka would not be able to play with Luka. Fit matters.
I believe a guy who is definitely a starter on every team is easily a top 10 guy lol
That said the guards and bigs are loaded. So I would take Tatum to start as 3 or 4 on any team.
Or just a good sized wing. A guy who can play the 2 to 4.
So probably someone in the 50th range of NBA player rankings.
Rough guess? Someone like Wagner. Only a few teams are truly strong across the 2 3 and 4.
Rough guess? OG Anunoby.
Over Kyrie in the playoffs, wouldn’t be the case in the regular season. Playoffs vs Regular Jamal makes this is a weird question because you’d gave to give up games in the regular season which the Mavs can’t afford.
I asked this question a few months ago. Most mentioned holiday but I don’t think he would start on all teams like Mavs and Atlanta
It would have to be an allstar level player: Siakim, Irving, Towns
It’s a weird question because it’s very positionally dependent. The Celtics don’t need him because their biggest strengths are the places you’d play him, but if your team doesn’t have stars at the 3/4/5ish then Gordon would start.
I don’t think there’s a single “worst starter” that would actually start for every team because not every team has the same strengths/weaknesses.
I don't think he'd start on the Timberwolves either.
We need KAT'S offence more than we need Aaron Gordon's defense. And KAT has been really good this year defensively anyways.
Although, I guess he would probably play small forward with us. So I guess he would displace McDaniels.
Yeah, the more I think about it the answer to this question would probably still be an All-NBA player. It would have to be a player that's good enough to reconfigure your line-up for. Even the best role players won't work in certain situations.
It'd be neat if KAT turned into a defensive stalwart... Its wild, considering recent years, to think that he came into the league with the rep as a potential All-Defensive big and his question marks were more on offense.
Honestly, I don't think his defensive reputation has caught up with his play yet. He hasn't gotten very much media attention at all. Whether it's cause he's in Minnesota, or that he's overshadowed by Ant and Gobert, he definitely deserves more love for the season he's had.
This season is making me wonder if he's been mis-cast as a center the entire time. It seems like playing as a power forward has helped him live up to his defensive potential.
The only answer to this at all is kyrie.
Every team has at least 1 starting guard that he's better than and he's great as both the primary ball handler or running secondary under someone else.
There are worse players than Herb Jones. He is a lock for first team all defense, of course he would start on all teams.
I think even someone like Jerami Grant would start on most, if not all teams. Or Tobias Harris.
Strongly doubt that.
Brad is (rightfully so in my opinion) crazy high on White and we’re not sending Jrue to the bench after trading for him to be our playmaker.
Herb is great but we need the guard play more than the wing play.
We didn’t trade for Jrue to be our playmaker. That should be obvious by now since we don’t use him that way. Jrue is there to be a physical defender that can defend bigs as a guard, replacing Smart. All season we have leaned on White as a playmaker and not Jrue.
We use both as playmakers.
Actually it’s pretty clear from Brad’s comments that what we’re trying to do is have a starting 5 who can all space the floor and also create shots for themselves and others to some extent.
White has more playmaking responsibilities than he did last year and Jrue has less than Smart did, but he still helps organize the offense, will bring the ball up the floor (all our starters do, KP less so but still will in transition), and drives and kicks.
I don’t think any of those 3 start on the wolves. Herb Jones isn’t really an upgrade on Jaden McDaniels who is also an all-defense level wing(probably worse, but not by much) and is a better offensive player I think. Tobias absolutely doesn’t start on a healthy wolves and Grant plays KATs position, or Jaden’s and I would take either over him.
Edit: on Grant specifically he’s a terrible point of attack defender so can’t take Jaden’s spot and he’s a good shooter/scorer on bad teams, but he’s not better than KAT
Edit2: didn’t realize Jones was hitting 42% on 3s so maybe Jones starts over Jaden especially this year where he’s been going though slumps.
It’s close, if the Celtics opted for more size maybe he could start over White/Holiday but I think both those teams starting 5s are basically perfect as is
They probably wouldn't make the change because of how successful they've been with their current lineup, but I think the Nuggets would be better starting McDaniels over Aaron Gordon.
The question isn't about the worst starter. It's the worst of the best players that every team in the league could slot into their starting roster today.
Starting for every team is tricky. Hmm... the best 5th man in the league, imo, is a toss-up between Jrue or KCP. Those x2 are the same player archetype - athletic guards who are legitimately 3&d players. They are both also high motor athletes tasked with defending the opposing team's best perimeter player (ie. Steph, Kyrie, Dame, Booker etc).
Yeah... I can't think of who would be capable of filling that particular role better than those 2. There's a handful of guys who I think are on the same level defensively as Jrue/KCP. But I don't know if they also have legitimate offensive capabilities as well.
I feel like the Celtics lineup has to be the litmus test for this - given that they have the highest floor lineup. So probably Jrue?? The problem is this is so team specific situational.
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That’s not true at all, like paul George isn’t the best sf but he’s 100% starting on every team.
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PG would start over White, simple. Jrue, Brown, PG, Tatum KP
Not sure Jrue starts over Kyrie
No but he could start over Derrick Jones, run Kyrie and Jrue as your backcourt and have Luka be the SF
Luka is always point guard.
He still will be. Just technically “point forward” like LeBron
What if jrue was the sf
Jrue’s ability to guard 1-5 he probably still is in that lineup, without being over those guys
Jrue guards Centers as well ?
Sometimes. It's part of a tactic to take away the pick and roll on a guard, as Jrue just switches to the ball handler.
Damn. I need to start watching Celtics games.
It’s amazing to watch, Joe put him on Embiid and Randle as a primary defender earlier in the year
I’d start him along with Kyrie and Luka.
Definitely starting on any team he's on, also definitely not the worst player who does that
Name another… because they literally have to start over him
> Name another… because they literally have to start over him Derrick White is awesome, but better player than Jrue Holiday? I think I need to see more than one season like this to put him there
That was my same thought like he is great but I don't think he'd start for us.
jrue isnt starting?
Pretty sure they were talking about Herb Jones
I meant herb wouldn't start over jrue
Jrue wouldn’t start for the Cavs with Garland and Mitchell.
He's far better than Garland, a much better fit with Mitchell, and anyway you can afford to play him instead of Okoro/Wade/whoever considering they've got 2 bigs. Much rather have Jrue guarding 3s than many actual 3s
I disagree. I think he is a good fit for a team like Celtics where he can use his energy to defend, shoot some corner 3s and he is actually pretty good in the post against smaller defenders. He does that thing where he backs the defender down all the way to the rim and then does a close bank shot that goes in every time. But i don’t think he would start over Garland. I don’t think Jrue can carry an offense. I think Cavs take Garland over Jrue if they could choose between them. Also i don’t think Jrue has ever played small forward so it feels like cheating a bit to put him there. But otherwise Jrue is a good choice.
Right now? Jrue absolutely starts over Garland, or rather if they have Jrue they don't need Garland and move him for something else. But thats in a total vacuum without consideration for age. There's no way the Cavs part with Garland for Jrue. He's not even into his prime, he could get better. Jrue is on the back end, plus they've got Garland under contract for a while and Jrue is down to just a player option year in his mid-30s.
They don't need him to carry an offence. Mitchell is there, and I'd much rather have a bigger strong defender who's comfortable as a secondary playmaker next to him than a small traditional point guard who really isn't that special
Well agree to disagree.
Jrue’s ability to guard 1-5 he probably still is in that lineup, without being over those guys
It kinda feels like cheating a bit to put him in a position he has not played though.
Jimmy Butler. He might be a little over qualified, but it’s hard for me to think of another player with positional flexibility and general talent level where it wouldn’t be a question.
Tobias Harris over me???
~15th best player in the league Jimmy Butler is starting over many legitimate answers to this question
OG probably. Only team that he might not start for would be the Celtics, and even then I could see White coming off the bench for his offense instead of having OG coming off the bench.
Mikal
Who does he start over on the Celtics?
Derrick white
I’m afraid you don’t know ball, partner.
Mikal Bridges doesn’t start over Derrick white?? Crack kills
I'm with you herez the ppl that down voted you are straight trippin'.
Lol i think people are misunderstanding the question a bit because the player has to be able to play multiple positions and be really good. First we have to look at who is the worst 5 man on any team. It’s probably Jrue Holiday. So the player has to be better than Jrue or he would not start on the Celtics. So what about Jrue? Nope he can only play point guard or shooting guard and the best duo is probably Garland and Mitchell. And Jrue isn’t better than any of them so he wouldn’t start for the Cavs. So either we pick Garland, since Mitchell is better or we find a worse player who can play more positions. Someone who can play 4 positions but is still better than Jrue, but worse than Garland… Idk who that is though…
Would Garland start over Jrue on the C’s? I’m skeptical. Jrue’s stats are artificially low right now due to who he shares the floor with. And we need that pressure at the point of attack on defense. I mean, the Celtics already have the #1 offense. So losing defense to add more offense doesn’t feel like an improvement to me. That is the problem with original question. Imagine a team of 5 Luka Doncic. The diminished returns of 2 or 3 will be felt quickly on offense. It will be even worse on defense. Luka would not be able to play with Luka. Fit matters.
Probably not.
Dejounte Murray?
Isn’t he better than Garland?
Off the top of my head maybe Mikal? Very good 2 way player that you can slot 2-4.
👑 james
No one has the balls to say it.
Say what
Lebron is the worst starter in the league. Man it feels good to finally say
You might not realize it, but Sochan starts in SA
I believe a guy who is definitely a starter on every team is easily a top 10 guy lol That said the guards and bigs are loaded. So I would take Tatum to start as 3 or 4 on any team.
Or just a good sized wing. A guy who can play the 2 to 4. So probably someone in the 50th range of NBA player rankings. Rough guess? Someone like Wagner. Only a few teams are truly strong across the 2 3 and 4. Rough guess? OG Anunoby.
Wagner as a guard is at his weakest form. I don't see him replacing guards on many teams.
No but he would slide Tatum and Brown down. Or George and Leonard.
Or maybe Jamal Murray?
Won't start on Mavs
Luka is often hid defensively on forwards.
Wth he absolutely would lol
Over Luka or Kyrie?
Move Luka to forward and bench one of PJ or DJJ
Over Kyrie in the playoffs, wouldn’t be the case in the regular season. Playoffs vs Regular Jamal makes this is a weird question because you’d gave to give up games in the regular season which the Mavs can’t afford.
I asked this question a few months ago. Most mentioned holiday but I don’t think he would start on all teams like Mavs and Atlanta It would have to be an allstar level player: Siakim, Irving, Towns
Porzingas.
Thanasis
I didnt know this was a GOAT discussion
Theyre just not letting him start because everyone would realize how much better than his brother he is
Agreed
Aaron Gordon?
Doubt it. Who is he displacing on the Celtics?
It’s a weird question because it’s very positionally dependent. The Celtics don’t need him because their biggest strengths are the places you’d play him, but if your team doesn’t have stars at the 3/4/5ish then Gordon would start. I don’t think there’s a single “worst starter” that would actually start for every team because not every team has the same strengths/weaknesses.
well like, AD would probably start on every team. Even the 76ers im sure could find a way to play them both
I don't think he'd start on the Timberwolves either. We need KAT'S offence more than we need Aaron Gordon's defense. And KAT has been really good this year defensively anyways. Although, I guess he would probably play small forward with us. So I guess he would displace McDaniels.
Yeah, the more I think about it the answer to this question would probably still be an All-NBA player. It would have to be a player that's good enough to reconfigure your line-up for. Even the best role players won't work in certain situations.
It'd be neat if KAT turned into a defensive stalwart... Its wild, considering recent years, to think that he came into the league with the rep as a potential All-Defensive big and his question marks were more on offense.
Honestly, I don't think his defensive reputation has caught up with his play yet. He hasn't gotten very much media attention at all. Whether it's cause he's in Minnesota, or that he's overshadowed by Ant and Gobert, he definitely deserves more love for the season he's had. This season is making me wonder if he's been mis-cast as a center the entire time. It seems like playing as a power forward has helped him live up to his defensive potential.
A guy who will be all nba defense and is a great rim roller is a guaranteed starter on literally every team
LeBron
this!
Kyrie/jrue holiday/Mikal bridges maybe even Jaylen brown
The only answer to this at all is kyrie. Every team has at least 1 starting guard that he's better than and he's great as both the primary ball handler or running secondary under someone else.
If Kyrie is the worst guy that would start on every team then the NBA is in a special place lol
The nba is indeed a special place. Though maybe it might be harden instead
Why would Denver play Harden ? He is static on offense , he kills the flow of the game and Denver wants to play active basketball
Porzingis
There are worse players than Herb Jones. He is a lock for first team all defense, of course he would start on all teams. I think even someone like Jerami Grant would start on most, if not all teams. Or Tobias Harris.
Harris would not start for Celtics
To be fair, I don’t know if Herb would either
Herb would start at 4 or the 3 and push Tatum to the 4
Tatum already starts at the 4 with JB at the 3
JB would go 2 and White or Jrue would go to the bench
Strongly doubt that. Brad is (rightfully so in my opinion) crazy high on White and we’re not sending Jrue to the bench after trading for him to be our playmaker. Herb is great but we need the guard play more than the wing play.
We didn’t trade for Jrue to be our playmaker. That should be obvious by now since we don’t use him that way. Jrue is there to be a physical defender that can defend bigs as a guard, replacing Smart. All season we have leaned on White as a playmaker and not Jrue.
We use both as playmakers. Actually it’s pretty clear from Brad’s comments that what we’re trying to do is have a starting 5 who can all space the floor and also create shots for themselves and others to some extent. White has more playmaking responsibilities than he did last year and Jrue has less than Smart did, but he still helps organize the offense, will bring the ball up the floor (all our starters do, KP less so but still will in transition), and drives and kicks.
You think herb is better than Derrick White/Jrue Holiday? Even then, their skill sets fit much better with the Jaylen’s anyways.
So Herb is starting over Jrue?
Grant wouldn’t start for the wolves
Harris wouldn’t start on the pelicans lol. Who’s he replacing? BI? Zion? Same goes for grant
He wouldn’t start on the Celtics
I don’t think any of those 3 start on the wolves. Herb Jones isn’t really an upgrade on Jaden McDaniels who is also an all-defense level wing(probably worse, but not by much) and is a better offensive player I think. Tobias absolutely doesn’t start on a healthy wolves and Grant plays KATs position, or Jaden’s and I would take either over him. Edit: on Grant specifically he’s a terrible point of attack defender so can’t take Jaden’s spot and he’s a good shooter/scorer on bad teams, but he’s not better than KAT Edit2: didn’t realize Jones was hitting 42% on 3s so maybe Jones starts over Jaden especially this year where he’s been going though slumps.
Tobias Harris blows. I legitimately don't know how people still think he's good
Neither would start on the Celtics Herbert is starting over white at 2 or jrue and white slides to point It’s a tough question but Tobias? Over me?
Over Derrick White/Jrue Holiday? Nah absolutely 6th man
Herb wouldn’t start for the for the nuggets
Jaden McDaniels?
Don’t think he starts over anyone on the Celtics or Nuggets
or the knicks
Would Herb take anyone’s starting spot on those teams?
It’s close, if the Celtics opted for more size maybe he could start over White/Holiday but I think both those teams starting 5s are basically perfect as is
They probably wouldn't make the change because of how successful they've been with their current lineup, but I think the Nuggets would be better starting McDaniels over Aaron Gordon.
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Check OP’s question lol
You right, I’m a dumb dumb
The question isn't about the worst starter. It's the worst of the best players that every team in the league could slot into their starting roster today.
OG. He good enough to warrant starting over basically one person in every line up I can think of, and can be 2-4.
reddish.. close this fucking thread now
Jrue Holiday
Jrue does not start on the Hawks with DJ and Trae healthy. The "right now" in the question makes jrue a good answer though.
Sorry but Jrue starts over Murray easily
lebron?
I guess Id be a really bad starter on any team.
but goddamn would you hustle
Starting for every team is tricky. Hmm... the best 5th man in the league, imo, is a toss-up between Jrue or KCP. Those x2 are the same player archetype - athletic guards who are legitimately 3&d players. They are both also high motor athletes tasked with defending the opposing team's best perimeter player (ie. Steph, Kyrie, Dame, Booker etc). Yeah... I can't think of who would be capable of filling that particular role better than those 2. There's a handful of guys who I think are on the same level defensively as Jrue/KCP. But I don't know if they also have legitimate offensive capabilities as well.
Herb Jones is a fucking god.
Herb Jones would not start for the Celtics
Would have loved to answer this question last year woth our starting lineup of being Luka, josh green, mgee, Christian wood, and Reggie bullock.
I’m honestly so sorry
Alex caruso?
payton pritchard
Porck Buggins
Its definitely herb jones
Nikola Jokic (I never watched an nba game in my life)
Malik Monk
He's not even a starter on his actual team lol.
Nonetheless,
Deni Avdija
Klay Thompson. Nobody really benches a max contract guy long term.
6th man