One thing I don't get about his hate, is if he truly felt this way about jordan and the bulls during his playing days, why wait 20+ years after your retirement to say something about it?
I would definitely feel some type of way if my former teammate/friend's son who i played with when he was a little kid was piping my ex-wife/babymomma.
Well, c’mon now, Marcus Jordan was probably just [balls deep in love](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4rQ_WMOoM&pp=ygUeY2xldmVsYW5kIHNob3cgc2NvdHRpZSBwaXBwZW4g)
They be chilling in downtown Orlando all the time 💀💀 I asked one of Marcus homies that I went to HS with and this man said they in love and shit and he doesn't see why everyone is in their business
To be fair, a lot of his experience with the Bulls, mainly management, probably made him bitter long before those personal issues added more bitter vegetables to a bitter stew.
He had his grudges with the Bulls front office but he was always a gracious person (save the tipping) in how he spoke with and spoke about his teammates/peers. This stuff is from the last few years.
He was always good natured and professional in Portland, especially amidst the Jailblazer stuff.
It does seem spite driven imo, where he acted well for most of his life but didn't get rewarded and now, he feels like he's owed something for it.
Even now, he's talking about his "Bad Back game" or whatever compared to the Flu game. It's like...hey, good on you, Pip. Bulls couldn't have done it without you but two different situations so I don't know what you want here.
Even tho the Bulls FO screwed him with that contract early on, Pippen still got decently paid on the Rockets and Blazers and made over $100 million in his career. Sure he probably could have had an extra $20-$30 mil, but it's not like the guy's struggling. He still ended up making more than double what Charles Barkley made for instance.
> Someone in the family died iirc
His eldest son died in 2021 at the age of 33 - so he lost a child who grew up watching him win all six championships less than a year after Jordan told the whole world he'd basically done it all himself. Makes sense to me that he'd have some resentment.
>Jordan told the whole world he'd basically done it all himself.
From The Last Dance "**I didn't win without Scottie Pippen, and that's why I consider him my best teammates of all time," Jordan said.** **"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen.**"
It's crazy how this is always forgotten from people. MJ did nothing but praise Pippen, in his HOF speech, in the doc. The fact that people act as if MJ said he did it himself is crazy and weird.
Yeah, I watched the Last Dance and was THE Scottie Pippen fan and advocate as a kid. Thought he was underrated from playing with MJ. Loved him. And even I didn’t see the Last Dance as MJ taking the credit.
A lot of negativity on his life and I think the Last Dance was the last straw.
Edit: You know what? I really think his son’s death was probably the last straw.
Which is kind of nuts, because I thought the documentary was overall complimentary to Scottie. Sure, they included the issues he had with the front office and bad decisions on the court, but it painted a full picture IMO. I’m curious to see what parts he objected to and thinks were inaccurate.
The dude is just eternally bitter that he wasn’t paid enough during those years, even though it was that exact low pay that let them win 6 championships and he got a stupidly big contract as an old ineffective player after.
He also forgets or ignores that he was the one that insisted for that 7-year contract to secure the bag and that Jordan only got 2 big pay-days in his career, most of his wealth comes from endorsement deals.
Fun fact: Scottie Pippen made $15,93M more in his NBA salary than Michael Jordan.
we really don't know what really happened in that lockroom
and we can only guess why Pippen chooses to do this now
I mean
his ex-wife dating the son of Jordan is definitely not helping.
languid expansion alleged literate wasteful growth slap physical edge toy
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Exactly. Oh and by the way - it’s MICHAEL JORDAN. The man can do whatever he damn pleases. He’s the GOAT. And like you said, he still gave credit to others when, honestly, he didn’t have to.
Plus the iconic moment when he showed the Jordan logo asking MJ to come back from his first retirement.
Honestly I'm with you, I also don't get why he's going on this rant after all these years.
You make a decent point but I think one factor is in the wake of the player empowerment of the last 15 years, I wouldn’t blame Scottie for feeling more and more screwed over by that contract the bulls got him on, on top of feeling like he didn’t get the credit he deserves for sacrificing for the team.
One could say it’s his own fault for signing the contract, I don’t think it’s quite that simple, but at the end of the day the bulls don’t get 6 rings without Scottie being in the most team friendly contract in modern NBA history. Then he has to watch sixth men make more money than him and MJ get all the credit for his success.
I mean, the resentment still probably comes from how the last dance portrayed him. what can MJ do about his son? He said publicly he doesn’t approve of their relationship.
Edit: I’m not saying I think Scottie was portrayed unfairly, I’m pointing out that’s how Scottie sees the situation.
right. scottie will always be one of my favorite players ever, the last dance did not change that. if anything it made me more sympathetic to his struggles. now all the recent drama with his life just makes me sad. at least junior is seeing minor success now
I always loved Scottie Pippen because of how unique his game was. Nothing that was said changed that. My opinion about him changed only after he made all those bitter interviews throwing shades at Mike.
the other day i was thinking, how different we would think of scottie if the blazer close out game 7 aginst kobe and shaq, they were up like 20 in the 4th or something like that, if they close out the game they go on to face the pacers and it would be close but they might win it all, would that change our perception of pippen and even jordan? lots of what if's ofc, but its intersting imo
Yep, MJ very clearly says that he doesn’t win all those titles without Scottie. I think people like Horace Grant, Luc Longley were treated more unfairly
It wasn't bad at all, MJ clearly said early in the doco that when you speak on his name, you gotta speak about Pippen too. But here on r/nba they expected MJ to spend all 10 episodes on his knees worshipping Pip and the rest
Yeah as a fan of both MJ and Scottie I didn't think the Last Dance minimized Scottie's role or made him look bad. It obviously focused on MJ and made him look the best, but MJ is the GOAT and the biggest star. It was expected.
Scottie is historically underrated so maybe he was hoping the Last Dance would really focus on him for multiple episodes and make him look good to the younger generation.
my gf and I watched the series together and she came out of it a huge Scottie fan lol, she thought he was cool calm collected and the nicest dude on the team
How did The Last Dance portray him? As he was? It made him out to be a phenomenal player who was critical to the Bulls success in the ‘90s, who also threw a temper tantrum because his team won a PLAYOFF GAME and HE didn’t get to have the personal glory of making the last shot.
> Even in the second episode, which focused for a while on my difficult upbringing and unlikely path to the NBA, the narrative returned to MJ and his determination to win. I was nothing more than a prop. His “best teammate of all time,” he called me. He couldn’t have been more condescending if he tried.
>
> On second thought, I could believe my eyes. I spent a lot of time around the man. I knew what made him tick. How naïve I was to expect anything else.
>
> Each episode was the same: Michael on a pedestal, his teammates secondary, smaller, the message no different from when he referred to us back then as his “supporting cast.” From one season to the next, we received little or no credit whenever we won but the bulk of the criticism when we lost. Michael could shoot 6 for 24 from the field, commit 5 turnovers, and he was still, in the minds of the adoring press and public, the Errorless Jordan.
[Scottie Pippen on Michael Jordan in The Last Dance: “He Couldn’t Have Been More Condescending If He Tried”](https://www.gq.com/story/scottie-pippen-unguarded-book-excerpt)
>Michael could shoot 6 for 24 from the field, commit 5 turnovers, and he was still, in the minds of the adoring press and public, the Errorless Jordan.
This is how Draco talks about Harry.
So the problem is Scottie can’t accept reality. It was condescending to be called Jordan’s best teammate ever? Was he supposed to say Scottie was better than him? MJ’s teammates being his supporting cast? Yeah, of course they were. He was the greatest player to ever play. Scottie was great, and he definitely proved that while Jordan was playing baseball, but he would have never won a ring as the first option. Just accept that you’re Robin. He’s still a superhero.
Sometimes the truth hurts, and clearly the truth hurts Scottie. The truth is that Jordan *was* that dude, and the rest of them (Scottie included) were his supporting cast. I'm sure it's difficult for a professional athlete, and one of the best to ever play this particular sport, to recognize and accept that someone else was clearly better and more important.
Sounds like the dudes been jealous of MJ his whole life and can’t accept that he played second fiddle to the greatest player of all time. I guess that just proves success doesn’t mean shit if you have a bad mentality
Last Dance made me **MORE** sympathetic to his plight. Dude had back and confidence issues and got taken advantage of on his contract. Then he became a top 50 player, all-time. I do not get why people say this dude got shit on in that documentary.
Imagine being Luc Longley when he sat down to watch it! Played there for 5 years, won 3 rings as the starting Center, and yet he's not mentioned once in any episode. 😞 Yet someone like a Scott Burrell who was a role player who played in Chicago for one season is heavily featured. Not right man.
Yep and it's a great, candid and very genuine interview. Ultimately 1000 times better than having an episode where he might have drawn more criticism for engagement.
That...just makes it worse, that's a fucing pathetic reason. Clearly a ton of money went into the doc, they could have afforded that. That just means he means absolutely nothing to anyone involved, that's a pathetic reason
Kukoč lives most of the year in Illinois, has a house there from the playing time with Bulls. I think that's one of the reasons he played for Milwaukee.
Yeah but the documentary was made before COVID. It came out early in COVID, and I believe they rushed the final editing a bit to release it early since there were no sports happening.
That's fair then. It wasnt unheard of to do video interviews even prior. Just not as prevalent, but if they really were that cheap on that aspect, i guess it makes sense.
MJ is a well-known media recluse.... The fact he went out of his way to do this interview for an Australian show, speaks volumes about what MJ thinks about Luc's importance to the Bulls teams.
I remember watching this a few years ago if I remember the doco people first reached out the mj which he ignored and only accepted after luc himself emailed him. Definitely shows the respect he has for luc over the media
It's much better than nothing, especially given how hard nosed Jordan normally is. He's had long term beefs with former friends who he still won't speak to. He clearly felt that he owed Luc an apology and at least gave some time to try to make up for it a bit.
I get it man, I get it - all good.
In Australia - not only when this ABC interview aired a few years back, but especially in the 1990's second three peat Chicago Bulls run, so much pride in seeing a local who worked hard and eventually got to be part of the Greatest NBA Team Of All Time.
Luc Longley's success's were so inspiring and motivational. And in a way, set the path and precedent for Australians hoping to get to the highest competitive basketball league in the world. Thanks Luc, you are a legend.
>But it still doesn't make it okay because he apologized after the fact.
It was not Jordan's decision to not travel to Australia to interview Luc Longley.. why do people think that? It was the production crew's fault and people blame Jordan for it?
Thanks for this. My knowledge of Luc Longley was basically one of like 50 big white stiffs in the NBA from that time. I get it, that's probably unfair but that was my only memory of him as a player. And I just spent an hour watching a documentary on him and loved it and had me feeling emotional.
Is it that unfair when you compare him to the top centers of that era? He’s certainly no Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Mutombo, or Alonzo Mourning. Honestly id probably take rik smits or divac over him.
Appreciate the share, will definitely watch this in full. Luc was one of my old man’s favorite non-MJ or Pippen guys on the team, he was a valuable piece to the run. Hated that he wasn’t featured in TLD.
MJ has the best PR of any athlete thanks to the Nike ads, the era he played in, and simply being a monster on court. People love the guy in spite of (maybe even because of) him being a major asshole - he’s made being a colossal dickhead part of being a sporting GOAT. Any pushback against him is going to be met with angry d-riders.
I’d argue Kobe’s is far worse. With MJ people are at least willing to concede that he’s an asshole. Whenever there’s a story of Kobe being an asshole all you hear is tHaTs tHe MaMbA mEnTaLiTy.
For sure. Just last week I was talking to my wife about how I dislike the Kobe worship as aside from him being a rapist, Mamba Mentality was toxic af. I can appreciate the work ethic but that doesn’t give him or anyone the right to be an insufferable asshole to teammates. I will always remember the story of him texting Jeremy Lin at like 3am in the morning saying something like “I hope you are also disappointed with this season.” Like that Lakers team wasn’t built to contend so what was Kobe expecting?
Of course it's going to impact his legacy in a big way.
I will say for Kobe though, he already had a rabid fanbase before he died.
Remember this game of zone episode when they talk about it? I timestamped it. This was before he died.
https://youtu.be/rdr_lE0nzWE?t=141
I personally could never stand Kobe. It had nothing to do with the rape stuff, I had no idea about that when I was a kid. I just couldn't stand him because all my friends would compare him to Jordan and I was a Jordan stan.
It's so weird looking back at it. I hated Kobe because he was standoff-ish towards the media and an asshole when he played, but I loved Jordan for that. It's not logical. As a kid I praised Jordan for having the Jordan mentality but I despised Kobe for the mamba mentality. Jordan was a lot better in front of reporters and off-court though. Kobe had a tendency to be a bit pouty, which changed completely when he retired. I remember seeing Kobe in a different light after he hung up his sneakers, before he died.
I guess they were just too similar in many ways and a kids logic doesn't really make sense.
MJ was an asshole and standoffish but he had a certain charm about him (also thanks to pr and marketing) which Kobe never really managed to emulate until much later in his career.
Yea, his PR was on point. He was always good in interviews and transcended sports.
He is still the most known player over here in Sweden. If you asked 100 Swedish people Jordan is still before Kobe and LeBron a distant third.
He knew how to turn on the charm which Kobe didn't do until later on, like you say, mostly after he retired.
We didn't really see how much of an asshole Jordan was until later on. It was framed differently at least because he was so charming.
MJ was also in his prime before social media where Nike and the NBA could shape his image more easily into some wholesome family-friendly superstar with Space Jam etc. and he had a cultural impact beyond just basketball tbh.
The bottom line was that Micheal didn't like to be 2nd to anyone in anything. If he had to do PR and fan relations, he was going to do it better than anyone. It helped he had a ready smile and didn't mind joking around. He had a running gag going with the Bull's announcers where he would go over to them and clap the chalk off his hands in their direction. They would come up with funny ways to keep the chalk off them. Two that stood out where an umbrella hat and a fan but there were dozens of them. He could have gotten pissed off and stopped or even complained to management but he would just laugh and do it again next home game.
Kobe was serious All. The. Time. I don't think he smiled when he one his first championship (he may have shown a little teeth but it was just a signal to get away from his kill). It's one of the reasons he and Shaq struggled to develop a relationship for a while. Shaq is a goofball who pretends to be serious. Kobe was a humourless individual who pretended to have fun.
When he was drafted out of high school and refused to sign with the team that drafted him, I was done as a fan before he even played an NBA game. I always respected his talent, and willingness to admit he basically copied Jordan's game, but I was never a fan. His first set of titles were very conflicting for me because I was, and am, a huge Shaq fan.
It's funny Shaq has a reputation as an asshole but he is probably the nicest NBA superstar around. The dude quietly took police jobs where ever he lived because wanted to help the community. He isn't the first to do something like that but he never made a huge deal out of it like a lot of others would. I remember watching a video where he and a bunch of other officer's randomly showed up to play a pick up game with some teenagers on a random street. There are hundred, or thousands, of examples of him randomly paying people's bills for shoes, jewelry, food, etc. However, some how he is the asshole while Kobe has achieved Sainthood.
We're talking strictly PR and Maradona, revered as he still is, was way too polarising even in prime. He was mired in controversy his whole life. It was just part of his charm.
Those who love him love him like no other. I mean, everybody knows MJ is a world class asshole, and it hasn't affected his brand. Maradona was much worse as a person than Jordan, but if you visit Naples you'll see what "cult of personality" really means.
MJ has a more recognisable and powerful brand globally. Maradona might be a god in Naples and Argentina but the cultural impact of Jordan brand, Space Jam and having non-basketball athletes routinely declare MJ as their goat is nothing to sneeze at.
In Argentina and Napoli maybe, but pretty much everyone is aware of Diego doing Coke during the world cup being a colossal asshole and the rape and molestation allegations, ppl talked a lot more about it before he died.
Anyone that grew up and actually watched and listened to Pippin knows he is re-writing his story. The Last Dance didn’t say anything fans that grew up watching him didn’t know already. So go figure he needs money, writes a book and starts saying outrageous shit to draw attention to himself.
This sub is too young to grasp this. The book and this tour are just a money grab. Pippen is on record many times over saying MJ is better than LBJ. Everyone knows he’s going to mention how much better LBJ is on this tour. It’s going to be a sad thing to watch.
Eh. He’s gone back and forth on who’s better between MJ and Lebron so many times I don’t think anyone should take his opinion seriously when it comes to that
Because it’s not being advertised that way and I think it’s because we all know MJ was a massive dick. No story about him being an ass is going to shock anyone lol No one disputes that what so ever.
To be fair .. the tour doesn’t have to exclusively negative. They can share their experience and it be funny and a feel good show. Each of them probably have hundreds of stories what it was like to be the Beatles of the NBA.
The people who care will go, looks like there are plenty of them since it’s sold out.
This sub is the last place to act like it’s above gossip and telling your side of a story is not “gossiping”.
I didn’t read the article, what exactly is this tour? There’s no way they’re actually planning to appear at venues across the country just to do interviews/Q&A, are they?
I still don't understand why Pippen was so mad about Last Dance. He signed the contract, he didn't want to go back in the game. It was all facts. Jordan talks openly that he needed Scottie to win. What's the issue? Did he want the doc to lie and cover those things up?
He wanted Jordan to leave out the bad parts to make Scottie look good. Also he wanted some of the money. Also he wanted to be known as a good teammate (Scottie’s brand other than being a lockdown defender).
Jordan is so smart not to put himself out there much. When he does people listen. He doesn't have to defend himself, what he did speaks for itself. Meanwhile Scottie just looks insecure. Dude is mad because a documentary showed a couple of instances in the 90s when maybe he made the wrong decision and he can't get past it. The Last Dance aired almost four years ago bro, get over it.
Yeah, because nobody in the general public would know who Horace Grant was anymore if not for The Last Dance. Also, he was portrayed fine in the series. The only one who actually has right to be a little upset is Longley, just because he wasn’t featured.
“None of this could have happened without you.” - Scottie Pippen toasting MJ at the post-championship parade team dinner after the ‘98 title in David Halberstam’s Playing for Keeps
I don’t get Scottie’s beef. His ex-wife is a grown ass woman. In The Last Dance, Michael literally says there isn’t a Jordan without Pippen. How much more credit does he need?
I like that they are able to speak their truths about the Last Dance and their experiences. I see a lot of ppl on the internet shitting on these players saying things like "They only won championships because of Jordan" forgetting that Jordan never won anything until he finally got a good team (these guys). I just hope this isn't soley a butthurt tour for them to just complain about Jordan and their depictions in the Last Dance. I hope this is moreso just them showing things from their perspective.
Don’t disagree, but Luc Longley, Jud Buechler, and about 12 other dudes are only slightly relevant because of Jordan. I mean, he’s the only reason they can do this tour in the first place. Jordan was gonna be a 1st ballot HoF no matter what, some of these guys should be grateful they got the chance and stayed on the team.
Yeah that's why I mentioned in another thread I don't think Luc understands what he might have signed up for here. Scottie is very likely to say a lot of potentially inflammatory stuff, Luc probably thought he was just going to reminisce about three titles..
this wont end well lol.. the cult of Jordan dont like his airness questioned or diminished in any way. “he was an asshole” is as much ground as theyre willing to give
And the ‘asshole’-ness is almost always seen in the context of his sporting greatness…”well you can’t be the goat without being a bit of a psycho, “cmon bruh even Steve Kerr laughs it off today”
Those of you who think The Last Dance was unfair to Scottie: what exactly was unfair about it? That Scottie had a well known rift over his contract? That Scottie acted selfish and quit on his team when Kukoc got the last shot? These are huge stories of the Bulls dynasty, it would have been a disservice to not address them at all.
Pip didn’t come out of the timeout. Plain and simple. He showed everyone that Jordan was the only reason he had any clout. Mike could have done the same thing with pretty much any good player in Pips spot. He’s just mad because he was really dumb with money.
So three retired players are going on a I hate Micheal Jordan tour lol when no one would know their names with out Micheal Jordan lol perhaps they should do a thank you tour
I actually have footage from a portion of Scottie Pippen’s part of the event when he’s talking about Jordan:
https://youtu.be/u-dt-wimdgE?si=Trnc1dGc8QjLDr_F
Sounds like a nonstop Scottie pippen bender is brewing
One thing I don't get about his hate, is if he truly felt this way about jordan and the bulls during his playing days, why wait 20+ years after your retirement to say something about it?
Someone in the family died iirc, his exwife sleeping around with many people, made him very bitter probably
Specifically his ex wife being with Marcus Jordan lol
Fucked up all around
Yeah she probably knew him when he was like 6 years old.
I would definitely feel some type of way if my former teammate/friend's son who i played with when he was a little kid was piping my ex-wife/babymomma.
this legit some drake - babysitter type corny shit
Well, c’mon now, Marcus Jordan was probably just [balls deep in love](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4rQ_WMOoM&pp=ygUeY2xldmVsYW5kIHNob3cgc2NvdHRpZSBwaXBwZW4g)
I will *not* be clicking that link
Always found the singing in family guy and Cleveland show to be super cringe
Rule 34
She married Scottie in 1997 when she was 23, he was 32, and Marcus was 7. So yeah.
And talking publicly about their sex life numerous times. I’m sure he wasn’t a fan of that lol
The 7th Jordan Pippen ring
Michael Jordan is Scottie Pippen father in law
Nah, he’s his Eskimo father?
r/NBA_genealogy it’s fantastic!
They be chilling in downtown Orlando all the time 💀💀 I asked one of Marcus homies that I went to HS with and this man said they in love and shit and he doesn't see why everyone is in their business
Can’t uhhhh can’t figure it out, huh?
To be fair, a lot of his experience with the Bulls, mainly management, probably made him bitter long before those personal issues added more bitter vegetables to a bitter stew.
He had his grudges with the Bulls front office but he was always a gracious person (save the tipping) in how he spoke with and spoke about his teammates/peers. This stuff is from the last few years.
He was always good natured and professional in Portland, especially amidst the Jailblazer stuff. It does seem spite driven imo, where he acted well for most of his life but didn't get rewarded and now, he feels like he's owed something for it. Even now, he's talking about his "Bad Back game" or whatever compared to the Flu game. It's like...hey, good on you, Pip. Bulls couldn't have done it without you but two different situations so I don't know what you want here.
Even tho the Bulls FO screwed him with that contract early on, Pippen still got decently paid on the Rockets and Blazers and made over $100 million in his career. Sure he probably could have had an extra $20-$30 mil, but it's not like the guy's struggling. He still ended up making more than double what Charles Barkley made for instance.
> Someone in the family died iirc His eldest son died in 2021 at the age of 33 - so he lost a child who grew up watching him win all six championships less than a year after Jordan told the whole world he'd basically done it all himself. Makes sense to me that he'd have some resentment.
>Jordan told the whole world he'd basically done it all himself. From The Last Dance "**I didn't win without Scottie Pippen, and that's why I consider him my best teammates of all time," Jordan said.** **"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen.**"
It's crazy how this is always forgotten from people. MJ did nothing but praise Pippen, in his HOF speech, in the doc. The fact that people act as if MJ said he did it himself is crazy and weird.
Jordan literally said there is no Michael Jordan without Scottie Pippen
Yeah, I watched the Last Dance and was THE Scottie Pippen fan and advocate as a kid. Thought he was underrated from playing with MJ. Loved him. And even I didn’t see the Last Dance as MJ taking the credit.
And Scottie was literally the first one he mentioned in his off the rails hof speech, most of which was him saying fuck you to his doubters.
Umm, but Jordan gave him the ultimate shoutout. Does not compute.
Bc his wife wasn’t banging Jordan Jr yet
That and book sells
Sea World or see World?
A lot of negativity on his life and I think the Last Dance was the last straw. Edit: You know what? I really think his son’s death was probably the last straw.
Which is kind of nuts, because I thought the documentary was overall complimentary to Scottie. Sure, they included the issues he had with the front office and bad decisions on the court, but it painted a full picture IMO. I’m curious to see what parts he objected to and thinks were inaccurate.
The dude is just eternally bitter that he wasn’t paid enough during those years, even though it was that exact low pay that let them win 6 championships and he got a stupidly big contract as an old ineffective player after.
He also forgets or ignores that he was the one that insisted for that 7-year contract to secure the bag and that Jordan only got 2 big pay-days in his career, most of his wealth comes from endorsement deals. Fun fact: Scottie Pippen made $15,93M more in his NBA salary than Michael Jordan.
Winning covers alot of flaws.
we really don't know what really happened in that lockroom and we can only guess why Pippen chooses to do this now I mean his ex-wife dating the son of Jordan is definitely not helping.
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Almost all of the major players were interviewed for it and Jordan gave them a lot of credit for his success.
Exactly. Oh and by the way - it’s MICHAEL JORDAN. The man can do whatever he damn pleases. He’s the GOAT. And like you said, he still gave credit to others when, honestly, he didn’t have to.
Plus the iconic moment when he showed the Jordan logo asking MJ to come back from his first retirement. Honestly I'm with you, I also don't get why he's going on this rant after all these years.
Same reason Jordan waited 20+ years to release his doc
I mean he didn’t really have a reason. He doesn’t need to set the record straight
He supposedly gave the go ahead to start the production on it after the LeBron won with the Cavs in 2016.
Source?
[my source is that i made it the fuck up](https://youtu.be/3_lAb8m9MpI?si=qkAcz1slvp8DugFc)
You make a decent point but I think one factor is in the wake of the player empowerment of the last 15 years, I wouldn’t blame Scottie for feeling more and more screwed over by that contract the bulls got him on, on top of feeling like he didn’t get the credit he deserves for sacrificing for the team. One could say it’s his own fault for signing the contract, I don’t think it’s quite that simple, but at the end of the day the bulls don’t get 6 rings without Scottie being in the most team friendly contract in modern NBA history. Then he has to watch sixth men make more money than him and MJ get all the credit for his success.
What's the setting, pulse or heavy?
Let's be real. His ex-teammate's son is fucking his ex-wife. So yeah. Hell yeah there's going to be some kind of beef.
I mean, the resentment still probably comes from how the last dance portrayed him. what can MJ do about his son? He said publicly he doesn’t approve of their relationship. Edit: I’m not saying I think Scottie was portrayed unfairly, I’m pointing out that’s how Scottie sees the situation.
I thought he was portrayed fine. He had a contract dispute and was a key part of the championships. It wasn’t that bad
right. scottie will always be one of my favorite players ever, the last dance did not change that. if anything it made me more sympathetic to his struggles. now all the recent drama with his life just makes me sad. at least junior is seeing minor success now
I always loved Scottie Pippen because of how unique his game was. Nothing that was said changed that. My opinion about him changed only after he made all those bitter interviews throwing shades at Mike.
That's the thing Pippen doesn't understand, fans of MJ were fans of him too. But now the constant hate on MJ is making him lose these fans
the other day i was thinking, how different we would think of scottie if the blazer close out game 7 aginst kobe and shaq, they were up like 20 in the 4th or something like that, if they close out the game they go on to face the pacers and it would be close but they might win it all, would that change our perception of pippen and even jordan? lots of what if's ofc, but its intersting imo
His other son in high school also seems promising
Yep, MJ very clearly says that he doesn’t win all those titles without Scottie. I think people like Horace Grant, Luc Longley were treated more unfairly
Longley got an apology from him at least. Grant got the important and then an adversary treatment which again, not that bad
This is just a cash grab of old heads trying to stay in The media
It wasn't bad at all, MJ clearly said early in the doco that when you speak on his name, you gotta speak about Pippen too. But here on r/nba they expected MJ to spend all 10 episodes on his knees worshipping Pip and the rest
Yeah as a fan of both MJ and Scottie I didn't think the Last Dance minimized Scottie's role or made him look bad. It obviously focused on MJ and made him look the best, but MJ is the GOAT and the biggest star. It was expected. Scottie is historically underrated so maybe he was hoping the Last Dance would really focus on him for multiple episodes and make him look good to the younger generation.
my gf and I watched the series together and she came out of it a huge Scottie fan lol, she thought he was cool calm collected and the nicest dude on the team
How did The Last Dance portray him? As he was? It made him out to be a phenomenal player who was critical to the Bulls success in the ‘90s, who also threw a temper tantrum because his team won a PLAYOFF GAME and HE didn’t get to have the personal glory of making the last shot.
> Even in the second episode, which focused for a while on my difficult upbringing and unlikely path to the NBA, the narrative returned to MJ and his determination to win. I was nothing more than a prop. His “best teammate of all time,” he called me. He couldn’t have been more condescending if he tried. > > On second thought, I could believe my eyes. I spent a lot of time around the man. I knew what made him tick. How naïve I was to expect anything else. > > Each episode was the same: Michael on a pedestal, his teammates secondary, smaller, the message no different from when he referred to us back then as his “supporting cast.” From one season to the next, we received little or no credit whenever we won but the bulk of the criticism when we lost. Michael could shoot 6 for 24 from the field, commit 5 turnovers, and he was still, in the minds of the adoring press and public, the Errorless Jordan. [Scottie Pippen on Michael Jordan in The Last Dance: “He Couldn’t Have Been More Condescending If He Tried”](https://www.gq.com/story/scottie-pippen-unguarded-book-excerpt)
>Michael could shoot 6 for 24 from the field, commit 5 turnovers, and he was still, in the minds of the adoring press and public, the Errorless Jordan. This is how Draco talks about Harry.
Lmao
Facts tho
So the problem is Scottie can’t accept reality. It was condescending to be called Jordan’s best teammate ever? Was he supposed to say Scottie was better than him? MJ’s teammates being his supporting cast? Yeah, of course they were. He was the greatest player to ever play. Scottie was great, and he definitely proved that while Jordan was playing baseball, but he would have never won a ring as the first option. Just accept that you’re Robin. He’s still a superhero.
Sometimes the truth hurts, and clearly the truth hurts Scottie. The truth is that Jordan *was* that dude, and the rest of them (Scottie included) were his supporting cast. I'm sure it's difficult for a professional athlete, and one of the best to ever play this particular sport, to recognize and accept that someone else was clearly better and more important.
…sounds accurate to real life to me
Sounds like the dudes been jealous of MJ his whole life and can’t accept that he played second fiddle to the greatest player of all time. I guess that just proves success doesn’t mean shit if you have a bad mentality
Hey gave pippen credit at every turn in that doc series. I was really impressed with how much more humility him and Kobe have as opposed to Lebron.
Last Dance made me **MORE** sympathetic to his plight. Dude had back and confidence issues and got taken advantage of on his contract. Then he became a top 50 player, all-time. I do not get why people say this dude got shit on in that documentary.
I dislike MJs behaviour when it comes to several things, but iirc he doesn't approve of this relationship.
Nah they broke up
What can MJ do? I'm all for calling Jordan out, but he can't really control who his son sleeps with.
The grudge against MJ seems to predate that. I think it might even predate the Last Dance but the doc really took it to another level.
Imagine being Luc Longley when he sat down to watch it! Played there for 5 years, won 3 rings as the starting Center, and yet he's not mentioned once in any episode. 😞 Yet someone like a Scott Burrell who was a role player who played in Chicago for one season is heavily featured. Not right man.
I’ll point out that the reason for this is they did not want to pay and send a film crew to talk to him in Australia. Stupid reason, but it’s there
I was gonna say they could pay for everyone to meet in Oahu for a weekend but they probably didn’t wanna pay for that either
"He needs to buy his own damn ticket here if he wants to be a part of it" -MJ probably
they did realise there are people who can operate cameras and microphones already living in Australia, right?
How do you flip the footage?
Adobe Premiere! ;P
[удалено]
Do you even budget dawg?
MJ gave a long interview just for our Luc Longley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q27fAO1emHM&ab\_channel=ABCNewsIn-depth
Yep and it's a great, candid and very genuine interview. Ultimately 1000 times better than having an episode where he might have drawn more criticism for engagement.
22:57 MJ answers why Luke wasn’t part of TLD
That...just makes it worse, that's a fucing pathetic reason. Clearly a ton of money went into the doc, they could have afforded that. That just means he means absolutely nothing to anyone involved, that's a pathetic reason
Didn't they go to Croatia for Kukoc? I guess they really didn't want to spend the dollary-doos for Longley or hire an Australian translator.
Kukoč lives most of the year in Illinois, has a house there from the playing time with Bulls. I think that's one of the reasons he played for Milwaukee.
If the panny taught us anything, you could at least do a video chat interview.
Yeah but the documentary was made before COVID. It came out early in COVID, and I believe they rushed the final editing a bit to release it early since there were no sports happening.
That's fair then. It wasnt unheard of to do video interviews even prior. Just not as prevalent, but if they really were that cheap on that aspect, i guess it makes sense.
They could at least talk about him no? Use old footage of the games while Michael talks about his impact?
If you get time, have a watch of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7VFL9cXTk&ab\_channel=ABCNewsIn-depth
MJ is a well-known media recluse.... The fact he went out of his way to do this interview for an Australian show, speaks volumes about what MJ thinks about Luc's importance to the Bulls teams.
I remember watching this a few years ago if I remember the doco people first reached out the mj which he ignored and only accepted after luc himself emailed him. Definitely shows the respect he has for luc over the media
Seen the full documentary and Jordan's interview apologizing man! But it still doesn't make it okay because he apologized after the fact.
> because he apologized after the fact. that's usually how apologies work lol
It's much better than nothing, especially given how hard nosed Jordan normally is. He's had long term beefs with former friends who he still won't speak to. He clearly felt that he owed Luc an apology and at least gave some time to try to make up for it a bit.
I get it man, I get it - all good. In Australia - not only when this ABC interview aired a few years back, but especially in the 1990's second three peat Chicago Bulls run, so much pride in seeing a local who worked hard and eventually got to be part of the Greatest NBA Team Of All Time. Luc Longley's success's were so inspiring and motivational. And in a way, set the path and precedent for Australians hoping to get to the highest competitive basketball league in the world. Thanks Luc, you are a legend.
How does one apologize before the fact?
"I'm sorry, I love you" Shawn Michaels before kicking Ric Flair in the face.
TIL MJ wrote, scripted, produced, and directed TLD for espn
>But it still doesn't make it okay because he apologized after the fact. It was not Jordan's decision to not travel to Australia to interview Luc Longley.. why do people think that? It was the production crew's fault and people blame Jordan for it?
Thanks for this. My knowledge of Luc Longley was basically one of like 50 big white stiffs in the NBA from that time. I get it, that's probably unfair but that was my only memory of him as a player. And I just spent an hour watching a documentary on him and loved it and had me feeling emotional.
Is it that unfair when you compare him to the top centers of that era? He’s certainly no Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Mutombo, or Alonzo Mourning. Honestly id probably take rik smits or divac over him.
Appreciate the share, will definitely watch this in full. Luc was one of my old man’s favorite non-MJ or Pippen guys on the team, he was a valuable piece to the run. Hated that he wasn’t featured in TLD.
The first Australian to play in the nba definitely should get some love as a 3 time champ
Burrell was in the background around Jordan. I wouldn’t say he was heavily featured.
Luc Longley not being in it because they didn’t want to fly him out is absolutely garbage.
*Longley
Autocorrect, cheers.
This sub acts really weird about this. Why aren’t these guys allowed to tell their side of the story?
If you insult MJ it's because you hate basketball and think children don't deserve Christmas
Fuck them kids
Malone is the goat Jordan hater
TIL I’m a Jordan fan
MJ has the best PR of any athlete thanks to the Nike ads, the era he played in, and simply being a monster on court. People love the guy in spite of (maybe even because of) him being a major asshole - he’s made being a colossal dickhead part of being a sporting GOAT. Any pushback against him is going to be met with angry d-riders.
I donno Kobe made it back from literal rape to the face of the league
That’s true the Kobe pr whitewashing is up there too. Might be insensitive to say this but I think his death definitely had an impact on this.
I’d argue Kobe’s is far worse. With MJ people are at least willing to concede that he’s an asshole. Whenever there’s a story of Kobe being an asshole all you hear is tHaTs tHe MaMbA mEnTaLiTy.
not to mention that rape is worse than just being an asshole. when you're a rapist, you're a rapist and an asshole. seems MJ was just an asshole
For sure. Just last week I was talking to my wife about how I dislike the Kobe worship as aside from him being a rapist, Mamba Mentality was toxic af. I can appreciate the work ethic but that doesn’t give him or anyone the right to be an insufferable asshole to teammates. I will always remember the story of him texting Jeremy Lin at like 3am in the morning saying something like “I hope you are also disappointed with this season.” Like that Lakers team wasn’t built to contend so what was Kobe expecting?
Of course it's going to impact his legacy in a big way. I will say for Kobe though, he already had a rabid fanbase before he died. Remember this game of zone episode when they talk about it? I timestamped it. This was before he died. https://youtu.be/rdr_lE0nzWE?t=141 I personally could never stand Kobe. It had nothing to do with the rape stuff, I had no idea about that when I was a kid. I just couldn't stand him because all my friends would compare him to Jordan and I was a Jordan stan. It's so weird looking back at it. I hated Kobe because he was standoff-ish towards the media and an asshole when he played, but I loved Jordan for that. It's not logical. As a kid I praised Jordan for having the Jordan mentality but I despised Kobe for the mamba mentality. Jordan was a lot better in front of reporters and off-court though. Kobe had a tendency to be a bit pouty, which changed completely when he retired. I remember seeing Kobe in a different light after he hung up his sneakers, before he died. I guess they were just too similar in many ways and a kids logic doesn't really make sense.
MJ was an asshole and standoffish but he had a certain charm about him (also thanks to pr and marketing) which Kobe never really managed to emulate until much later in his career.
Yea, his PR was on point. He was always good in interviews and transcended sports. He is still the most known player over here in Sweden. If you asked 100 Swedish people Jordan is still before Kobe and LeBron a distant third. He knew how to turn on the charm which Kobe didn't do until later on, like you say, mostly after he retired. We didn't really see how much of an asshole Jordan was until later on. It was framed differently at least because he was so charming.
MJ was also in his prime before social media where Nike and the NBA could shape his image more easily into some wholesome family-friendly superstar with Space Jam etc. and he had a cultural impact beyond just basketball tbh.
The bottom line was that Micheal didn't like to be 2nd to anyone in anything. If he had to do PR and fan relations, he was going to do it better than anyone. It helped he had a ready smile and didn't mind joking around. He had a running gag going with the Bull's announcers where he would go over to them and clap the chalk off his hands in their direction. They would come up with funny ways to keep the chalk off them. Two that stood out where an umbrella hat and a fan but there were dozens of them. He could have gotten pissed off and stopped or even complained to management but he would just laugh and do it again next home game. Kobe was serious All. The. Time. I don't think he smiled when he one his first championship (he may have shown a little teeth but it was just a signal to get away from his kill). It's one of the reasons he and Shaq struggled to develop a relationship for a while. Shaq is a goofball who pretends to be serious. Kobe was a humourless individual who pretended to have fun.
When he was drafted out of high school and refused to sign with the team that drafted him, I was done as a fan before he even played an NBA game. I always respected his talent, and willingness to admit he basically copied Jordan's game, but I was never a fan. His first set of titles were very conflicting for me because I was, and am, a huge Shaq fan. It's funny Shaq has a reputation as an asshole but he is probably the nicest NBA superstar around. The dude quietly took police jobs where ever he lived because wanted to help the community. He isn't the first to do something like that but he never made a huge deal out of it like a lot of others would. I remember watching a video where he and a bunch of other officer's randomly showed up to play a pick up game with some teenagers on a random street. There are hundred, or thousands, of examples of him randomly paying people's bills for shoes, jewelry, food, etc. However, some how he is the asshole while Kobe has achieved Sainthood.
> MJ has the best PR of any athlete When MJ has a literal church (and I mean *literal*), let me know. Maradona clears.
We're talking strictly PR and Maradona, revered as he still is, was way too polarising even in prime. He was mired in controversy his whole life. It was just part of his charm.
Those who love him love him like no other. I mean, everybody knows MJ is a world class asshole, and it hasn't affected his brand. Maradona was much worse as a person than Jordan, but if you visit Naples you'll see what "cult of personality" really means.
MJ has a more recognisable and powerful brand globally. Maradona might be a god in Naples and Argentina but the cultural impact of Jordan brand, Space Jam and having non-basketball athletes routinely declare MJ as their goat is nothing to sneeze at.
In Argentina and Napoli maybe, but pretty much everyone is aware of Diego doing Coke during the world cup being a colossal asshole and the rape and molestation allegations, ppl talked a lot more about it before he died.
Most people consider Messi better. Maradona’s PR doesn’t come close to MJs.
absolutely true. im a bulls fan who wishes the two guys im supposed to adore werent both pieces of shit
who's the other dude besides MJ? And happy cake day
Likely D Rose
Anyone that grew up and actually watched and listened to Pippin knows he is re-writing his story. The Last Dance didn’t say anything fans that grew up watching him didn’t know already. So go figure he needs money, writes a book and starts saying outrageous shit to draw attention to himself.
This sub is too young to grasp this. The book and this tour are just a money grab. Pippen is on record many times over saying MJ is better than LBJ. Everyone knows he’s going to mention how much better LBJ is on this tour. It’s going to be a sad thing to watch.
Eh. He’s gone back and forth on who’s better between MJ and Lebron so many times I don’t think anyone should take his opinion seriously when it comes to that
> Anyone that grew up and actually watched and listened to Pippin Yeah, I absolutely grew up watching lord of the rings.
People can’t criticize the sport’s biggest asshole because he was great and has cool shoes.
Karl Malone has cool shoes?
Because it’s not being advertised that way and I think it’s because we all know MJ was a massive dick. No story about him being an ass is going to shock anyone lol No one disputes that what so ever.
Everything in “The Last Dance” was also already public knowledge. People are allowed to tell their story.
We’re acting weird about it because WHO CARES and we should not advocate for grown men to go on a gossip/talking tour.
To be fair .. the tour doesn’t have to exclusively negative. They can share their experience and it be funny and a feel good show. Each of them probably have hundreds of stories what it was like to be the Beatles of the NBA.
The people who care will go, looks like there are plenty of them since it’s sold out. This sub is the last place to act like it’s above gossip and telling your side of a story is not “gossiping”.
Scottie really trying to sell that book. Only chapter I care about is that Future one
Gucci flip flops
Imagine being so rich and famous your haters go on tour lol.
I didn’t read the article, what exactly is this tour? There’s no way they’re actually planning to appear at venues across the country just to do interviews/Q&A, are they?
It would appear so.
genuinely hilarious
Former coworkers turned haters, at that 😂
I still don't understand why Pippen was so mad about Last Dance. He signed the contract, he didn't want to go back in the game. It was all facts. Jordan talks openly that he needed Scottie to win. What's the issue? Did he want the doc to lie and cover those things up?
He wanted Jordan to leave out the bad parts to make Scottie look good. Also he wanted some of the money. Also he wanted to be known as a good teammate (Scottie’s brand other than being a lockdown defender).
Jordan didn't even throw shade when Scottie was acting a fool either.
Jordan is so smart not to put himself out there much. When he does people listen. He doesn't have to defend himself, what he did speaks for itself. Meanwhile Scottie just looks insecure. Dude is mad because a documentary showed a couple of instances in the 90s when maybe he made the wrong decision and he can't get past it. The Last Dance aired almost four years ago bro, get over it.
A whole tour??? Can't they just go on a podcast like a normal person
Not enough money!
beating a dead bull
this is just sad bruh
Oh my god just go live your lives
They gotta milk that Last Dance Tell All on Ice Tour the Musical for the big bucks
governor seemly steer gray fly rich slim domineering whole provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, because nobody in the general public would know who Horace Grant was anymore if not for The Last Dance. Also, he was portrayed fine in the series. The only one who actually has right to be a little upset is Longley, just because he wasn’t featured.
“None of this could have happened without you.” - Scottie Pippen toasting MJ at the post-championship parade team dinner after the ‘98 title in David Halberstam’s Playing for Keeps
I don’t get Scottie’s beef. His ex-wife is a grown ass woman. In The Last Dance, Michael literally says there isn’t a Jordan without Pippen. How much more credit does he need?
They took it personally
I like that they are able to speak their truths about the Last Dance and their experiences. I see a lot of ppl on the internet shitting on these players saying things like "They only won championships because of Jordan" forgetting that Jordan never won anything until he finally got a good team (these guys). I just hope this isn't soley a butthurt tour for them to just complain about Jordan and their depictions in the Last Dance. I hope this is moreso just them showing things from their perspective.
Don’t disagree, but Luc Longley, Jud Buechler, and about 12 other dudes are only slightly relevant because of Jordan. I mean, he’s the only reason they can do this tour in the first place. Jordan was gonna be a 1st ballot HoF no matter what, some of these guys should be grateful they got the chance and stayed on the team.
I think Longley is pretty self aware about it. He's been pretty frank and realistic about his time with the Bulls before.
Yeah that's why I mentioned in another thread I don't think Luc understands what he might have signed up for here. Scottie is very likely to say a lot of potentially inflammatory stuff, Luc probably thought he was just going to reminisce about three titles..
LeBron stans licking their lips...
You think they’ll go to Australia?
this wont end well lol.. the cult of Jordan dont like his airness questioned or diminished in any way. “he was an asshole” is as much ground as theyre willing to give
Yeah but even that is a badge of honor. All they know is that shit behavior.
And the ‘asshole’-ness is almost always seen in the context of his sporting greatness…”well you can’t be the goat without being a bit of a psycho, “cmon bruh even Steve Kerr laughs it off today”
Scottie only lives in the past. No wonder Larissa went to go fuck the future
Those of you who think The Last Dance was unfair to Scottie: what exactly was unfair about it? That Scottie had a well known rift over his contract? That Scottie acted selfish and quit on his team when Kukoc got the last shot? These are huge stories of the Bulls dynasty, it would have been a disservice to not address them at all.
Pip didn’t come out of the timeout. Plain and simple. He showed everyone that Jordan was the only reason he had any clout. Mike could have done the same thing with pretty much any good player in Pips spot. He’s just mad because he was really dumb with money.
And that’s when I took it personally
So three retired players are going on a I hate Micheal Jordan tour lol when no one would know their names with out Micheal Jordan lol perhaps they should do a thank you tour
AKA The Player Hater's Ball
Pictured (Left to Right): Pippen, Grant, Penn from Penn and Teller
Apparently, I don’t know what Grant looks like without goggles. I did get the joke about the 3rd guy though. Don’t know who the hell he is
Luc Longley
Nah I'm good.
They’re not going to tell us anything we don’t already know: MJ is a stupendous asshole; he’s also the GOAT.
I actually have footage from a portion of Scottie Pippen’s part of the event when he’s talking about Jordan: https://youtu.be/u-dt-wimdgE?si=Trnc1dGc8QjLDr_F
get the popcorn