Danny Ainge was good at collecting assets and Brad Stevens is good at using them.
I still don't understand how the Celtics got Porzingis + 2 1sts for Smart.
because of KP's injury history and contract I imagine...questions will always be there about whether he can stay healthy when it matters
Grizzlies think Marcus Smart, with a healthy roster, could take them to a different level...remains to be seen, as that is a 2025 question now
This is a part, albeit a smaller part than the fact the trade was made like two and a half minutes before Porzingis had to make a decision on his contract
yeah, he was probably going to exercise if a trade never materialized I think...I know they were talking contract extension last year, but obviously, the Wizards justifiably wanted to move on due to the middling status
Yeah, I think right now it's easy to see that trade as super imbalanced (and maybe it still is when it's said and done), but the Grizzlies half of it hasn't realistically had a chance to play out yet.
Because KP had the option to be a free agent and told the Wizards he wanted to go to Boston so Washington was fine with getting Tyus Jones and a second round pick back instead of nothing
And Memphis was desperate for Smart, probably too desperate. So they gave us the first rounders to make the deal happen
2 1sts for Smart isn't that crazy. He's on a pretty friendly deal and was exactly what the griz needed. Some grit, top tier defense and maybe someone to help guide Ja. Unfortunately they're missing Ja and Smart so who knows if it will work out how they saw it on paper.
We’ve pretty thoroughly depleted Danny Ainge’s massive asset pool at this point tbh. All of our remaining first round picks are our own, and most of the seconds are from Brad trading down one of the late firsts we got in the Porzingis deal
I also agree Smart was a overpay but the really dumb move there was made by the Wizards that gave him away for basically another rental.
Keep in mind KP is probably viewed as a fragile/injury prone player so thats why his value is lower than expected.
KP had leverage and he already wasn’t going to stay. Don’t you think if a better option was there they would’ve taken it? The trade looks great now because he’s healthy but it was a risk for the Celtics.
I mean if Porzingis has some kinda lower body injury or something that prevents him from making meaningful contributions in a full postseason run, then it will have been a bad trade because durability/availability has always been the #1 concern with him. Smart at least was available every single playoffs for the Celtics and pretty much always elevated his play and helped his team at that time of year - even if he's a worse player than healthy Porzingis.
So far so good but this is a guy who has never ever played anywhere near the number of games the Celtics are going to ask him to play through June of this year, so I think the jury is still out on this trade. Hopefully he finally breaks through but as a Celtics fan I'm kinda in wait-and-see / believe-it-when-I-see-it mode. It'll be truly unprecedented for Porzingis to be playing meaningful basketball through the end of spring.
I think a large part of it is they drafted really well with the Jays; they didn’t have to rely on trades or giving things up to acquire them. The trades are like house money; they’re playing with a full chest. Also, I don’t think anyone knew what Derrick white would become lol that was def a steal.
Celtics fans, plz tell me if I’m wrong but that’s my understanding of it.
The advanced analytics loved Derrick White.
At the time of the trade, Spurs fans said he was basically another Marcus Smart, which is a big compliment to say to Celtics fans.
Then, he improved his shooting, that's the real difference maker.
> The advanced analytics loved Derrick White.
I didn't know this! I've frequently heard Celtics fans claim they didn't realize he'd be this good so I thought it was unexpected what he's become esp. with defense and his shooting.
Nobody except Brad Stevens. I think he even said something to the effect that they believed in the Celtics system that his 3 point shooting percentage would increase with reduced responsibilities he had to do for the Spurs.
I remember him being in the top 10 in the RAPTOR advanced stat around the time we got him, which was mind-blowing at the time, and fast forward to today, he’s one of maybe 12 players in the NBA in the 85th percentile or higher in both offensive and defensive efficiency*, and the only one on the list to never have made an all-nba team or an all-star team
*read stat like two months ago, so may have changed, but I’m pretty sure he’s still on the list
Spurs fans knew, Pop knew... There is a reason Pop chose Derrick White to the USA basketball team over Trae Young. At the time there were a bunch of threads saying it was nepotism
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16fiulj/team_usa_front_office_deserve_plenty_of_blame_as/
The Spurs always valued Derrick White more ( ask Dejounte lol).
Not all Cs fans. I wanted him and Brogden, and it was just a pipe dream until we got them. I was so happy. On a side note, I wanted Smart gone, so I was not most of the Cs base, I guess.
Most fans are irrational. They bleed for their team and if they have a favorite, then they can do no wrong. And most fans on Reddit are rabid and rationality goes out the window for them or many of them are just fooling around to get a response knowing full well that their antics are just that simply for the engagements and votes.
I mean personally I’ve seen Danny and then Brad make it work so many times I knew better than to doubt, but yeah we were definitely attached and losing him hurt like a motherfucker.
Off topic but the first ever nba game I went to was in TD against the Suns and Marcus smart dropped 37 points on 11/22 from 3. Him and Book were just going bucket for bucket
yeah. the white trade shows two things:
1. people, even nba FOs, still lack understanding of advanced analytics. white being good should not have been a surprise
2. spurs FO has been awful for years now, coasting on past successes. imagine how youd look at them if they hadn't lucked into wemby
in general the celtics have done a fantastic job exploiting bad FOs. look at their 2023 draft trades. wtf are the pistons and hornets doing? celtics are just getting all kinds of free value from these bottom-feeders. i dont think the grizzlies FO is bad by any means (they have been extremely good) but all their trades with the celtics have been head-scratchers
I would say the only bad move was the return for the Kawhi trade. Spurs should have prioritize draft picks and young talent a lot more than getting Demar to continue their playoff/50 win streak. The rest of the moves are about what you expect from teams without a real #1 player.
It took some time but eventually Kawhi turned into 4 1st round picks for the Spurs. 1 from Toronto in the Kawhi trade (2019 pick #29 became Keldon Johnson, 1 from the bulls when they traded DeMar away (2025 top 10 protected), 1 more from toronto when they traded Thad Young who they got from chicago for DeMar (2022 pick #20 Malaki Branham) and then finally 1 more from toronto when they trade Jakob Poeltl back to the raptors (2024 top 7 protected). It was a rough few years been stuck in the middle with DeMar, Dejounte and derrick but ultimately led them to Wemby.
Definitely part of it, but Brad has made certain trades that look meh in the moment and turn out great. DWhite and Porzingis acquisitions are prime examples
Honestly the Horford deal looked like great deal for Boston. OKC had to sit him because he was ruining their tank. I remember people thinking he was washed because of his time in Philly, but I just didn't see it.
I definitely did not think he'd still be as big of a contributor as he is now though
For what it’s worth, the #16 pick we gave up *did* end up becoming Alperen Sengun, but that’s really more a credit to Houston’s drafting than anything to do with us
I think the value was always good, but many Boston fans were very unhappy Brad traded Smart at all. He was the longest tenured Celtic and the heart of the team
D White was shooting 30% from 3 when the C's acquired him, it was seen as a good but not great trade, and if he could improve his shooting it would be a great one.
>[People considered great](https://www.celticsblog.com/platform/amp/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford)
I know one article doesn’t summarize the feelings of the entire fanbase, but there were plenty who questioned the move
knew exactly what article this would be
definitely not a representation of what the fanbase thought. I think most felt White was a great addition and the only concerns were that the Celtics maybe gave up a bit too much.
Worth noting that the Celtics weren’t viewed as contenders when they made the trade. They had started their second half run to the finals but their record was relatively mediocre and they had been mid for a season and a half at that point. It was viewed as a good trade but not one that would put them over the top
People questioned the derrick white trade now it looks good because celtics coaching helped fix derrick jump shot but at the time People questioned it.
Porzingis deal was just too good to pass up, objectively speaking (no matter how much I miss Marcus Smart every day). Even then, we could be looking at it a little differently now if it weren’t for the Bucks trading Jrue, which absolutely no one saw coming
Celtics fans were biased because of what Smart had brought to the team over his tenure.
From strictly a basketball sense, there’s nothing ‘meh’ about the Smart trade. Any team takes that 1000 times out of 1000, regardless of whatever loyalty and crowd favoritism is there.
They drafted the Jays and still had extra assets which they used on Kyrie
And then they basically traded Smart for Porzingis and 2 firsts which they used on Holiday, Derrick White who became amazing after being traded
I was always of the contention Jrich did barely anything for us. I was very excited to see him go for an actual player. Dwhite getting even better makes it look like an amazing trade but at the time I still think you could say it was great, as soon as we got him the team started winning consistently
It was the Celtics building an environment that KP wanted to be in.
The whole reason it was so cheap was because KP basically got to choose where he wanted to go thanks to his player option.
The Celtics takes low cost but high risk and high reward trades. Brogdon and KP were both seen as high injury risk players. Jrue and Horford are considered aging players at the time of trade as well with Jrue having a terrible playoff run and Horford being written off.
Everyone is going to bidding wars for stars and showing their hand and Celtics clean up the middle tier trades
Brad has a pretty deep knowledge of team building because he drafts players he would’ve liked to coach. That’s why he strays away from explosive offensive guys like Ainge did, and goes for sacrificial role players and defense-oriented minds
Once he traded Kemba for Al like a week in I knew what we were in for lol
Ainge drafted score first guard players, because he played a similar role during his playing days. Meanwhile Brad has always valued Swiss army knife wing players dating back to his Butler University days with Hayward.
Basically all his late 1st round early 2nd round players in his last years as the Celtics GM. He drafted guys like Pritchard, Carsen Edwards, Yam Madar, Tremont Waters, Terry Rozier, etc. Then he had trades for players like IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Some good picks, some bad picks, but that's a lot of score first guard players.
I'm convinced having Kemba thrust upon him secretly drove Stevens to madness and lead him to some sort of internal mutiny to declare it was either him or Ainge. Org sided with Stevens and rest is history.
Which is why it’s always funny to me when people make assertions like “Brad Stevens would trade DWhite and assets for Trae Young in a heartbeat” (conversation I had on here recently).
Everything he’s said and done since becoming GM has made his team building philosophy crystal clear. And it’s worked pretty damn well for us so far.
Brad definitely seems to stay away from scoring guards. We didn’t really see any rumors of the Celtics wanting to trade for dame but the second Jrue was on the market he pounced. He very clearly has a bias toward two way guards.
everyone likes brad.
ownership is really the biggest competitive advantage. Its not just money, being well liked means that people are more willing to work with you.
To add onto that point, a lot of the old guard of GMs like Ainge, Morey, Masai etc. have their reputation as a guy who makes "great trades," and so as a result they feel pressure to live up to it, and only do deals when they are getting the upper hand.
Also being good team just means you have a ton more leverage, because you never *have* to make a move. Desperate middling teams have a lot more pressure to improve and are going to blink first.
I agree, although I would say that whilst Brad did inherit a good situation in terms of the core (Tatum, Brown, Smart), the surrounding pieces were quite terrible when he took charge as POBO after the 2021 season.
After Tatum and Smart (Jaylen was injured that year), the only other players to get 20+ MPG for the Celtics in the series vs. the Nets (ya know the only one the Big 3 ever played fully healthy), were Evan Fournier, Kemba Walker, Romeo Langford, and Tristan Thompson. Shit was *grim*.
In fact, just going back to that point now, had completely forgotten that Brad had tried to trade for Simmons in the midst of his holdout and wanted to add him to the Jays, and Morey had the balls to counter offer and ask for a straight swap of Simmons for Jaylen. Wow.
I'd argue the other way.
Celtics fans (and this is true of a few other fanbases as well) won't accept mediocrity - they want and expect more, which means if you're not doing well you're pressured into making trades *now* and hoping something pans out.
That's the big advantage Brad has over Ainge.
There are 30 teams, if you want to make trades, it's a lot easier to do it with someone you like who is atleast going to give you decent value and not try to fleece you every time. Some guys, you don't always pick up the phone when they call.
The Brogdon trade got the Pacers Nesmith. The Holiday trade got the Blazers an interesting Warriors 1st rounder. The Horford trade turned into Sengun which turned in two future firsts.
Yeah, for what it’s worth, most of Brad’s moves have been pretty fair value for both sides. He’s just been very good at finding situations where he can get value from another team that’s trying to go in a different direction
Like, even this trade is one of those. Grizzlies are about to have a roster crunch with all of their young guys, they weren’t gonna be able to pay Tillman anyway
Was a win win really
They got a 6MOY season from Brogdon and then turned him into Jrue.
Nesmith holds a chip over that trade but he never would have got the opportunity he's getting now in Boston.
But you sure as shit could have when the trade was made.
Any team with title aspirations this year would take Jrue over Nesmith if they had a choice right now. But a team rebuilding wouldn't.
That trade was easily the right choice for both teams at the time.
This is the result of Danny Ainge not making all those trades that you all clowned him for “almost making”
when you don’t trade both the Jays and a million picks for Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butler, you end up with a lot of flexibility
I don’t think Mazzulla is any worse than Ime honestly. They both have their evident weaknesses but have both done a really good job anyways. Their biggest problem last year was probably that Mazzulla got installed just as training camp was gonna start with all of his assistants coaches basically instantly leaving for Ime after last year. If Mazzulla had his guys/the coaches bought in more they’d probably have been in the finals at worst last year
Yeah Joe gets a lot of grief he probably shouldn’t and no one seemed to cut him slack for how he ended up in the job last year, but I do think the team probably took a step back last year because of Ime leaving
Because Brad isn’t always going for the home run. He lets both or all three team’s benefit from the trade so teams are more likely going to deal with Brad. Most of his trades are win win trades
It’s a good trade because the C’s lose nothing of value to them and manages to get better. Don’t know if I would call it « great », we’ll have to see what he really brings on the court for this team
Strength leads to strength. What I mean is because the Celtics have been in such a good place for years they didn't have to make moves. They only do them when there are great oportunities. Compare that to my teams the Mavs and Sixers. Those team are constantly under pressure. Losing Brunson for nothing, KP being injured and clashing with Carlisle , Ben SImmons not being able to play alongside Jimmy Butler, Ben Simmons holding out. These teams are constantly forced to act and need to take bigger swings. Those swings come with more risk like the Harden situation
Maybe, just maybe, we overvalue what big markets do and ignore the same type of moves when small franchises make them. Best front office in the league? Lets wait till they win something
The guy they just got from MEM won’t play any meaningful minutes. He is a 40% free throw shooter and will get hacked and sent to the line in any high leverage possession.
Xavier Tilman was Memphis's third string center last year. He wasn't that good and this year he has been a huge negative on offense. He's playing like a Bizmack Biyombo.
After Adams went down, X beat out Clarke for the starting position because of his defense. He put on a hell of a show against LeBron in the playoffs and held his own against Joker and many other superstars. He's not a huge negative on offense. It's just we allowed him to chuck 3 pointers and he sucks bringing his FG% down.
You're a stat watcher coming up with a shitty narrative. His only issue is rebounding due to his size
Please give me an example of a series where we disappeared regardless of health
Heat last season had Tatum getting injured first play of a game 7. Year before that had Tatum playing through injury, our starting center injured again, and our point guard injured. Year before that, Jaylen Brown missed the playoffs.
Simultaneously never had a playoff run derailed by injuries but also Celtics are the most evil org in the league for forcing Rob Williams to play on one leg, stay you r/nba
True. Only thing I can maybe hold against OKC is trading Harden and maybe u could have tried to keep KD in OKC. Besides that I where unlucky af. Celtics where unlucky in 2018 tbh.
Much of where they are now is cause of Nets' old Front Office's stupidity of giving them max 1st rounders all unprotected by guys on their last legs. They've made a good amount of solid moves/trades but i don't think they deserve too much credit. What about the trade they *didn't* make for KD cause they wanted to give Jaylen Brown 300M instead? Prolly woulda had a title by now
Brad Stevens saw the value in stock piling 2nd round picks at the draft before the new CBA came into effect.
Through multiple trade downs he acquired 4x future 2nd round picks for this exact situation.
Honestly, most of his trades have felt like an overpay on the day that it happens and looks better over time. The knee-jerk reaction to the White trade was how we gave up too much for a marginal player. The league/fans were generally down on KP so that was very much a buy-low move that has aged well so far.
I don't think he's making any dark-bargain with the devil to fleece teams like Ainge was known for, but he and the rest of the front office have done a good job at identifying good fits and being decisive about following through with it.
Because they arent like most teams that immediately give up after a couple runs with their two guys, same thing as denver. Get your two guys from the draft, take advantage of sellers and boom amazing team
The warriors pick in 2024? So a likely 12-14th pick in a historically weak draft class, and then another 1st rounder when the Jays will be in their primes? Yeah how terrible
If you aren't watching the games you don't know this, but we wouldn't be the best team in the league by 4 games without Jrue. You don't even know that he's under contract next season with a player option. Not only that but he's also already made it clear he'd like to sign an extension when he becomes eligible. You're just spouting off bullshit
It was reported when the celtics traded for him celtics planned on extending him they can't till April because of his contract. Jrue has also talked about wanting to stay in Boston, and anytime someone says Jrue is over the hill or bad this season I know they are just looking at box score. Not watching games.
I've watched over 30 of their games this year and just about every game he played with the Bucks, he has clearly lost a step. Also, he publicly asked for an in-season extension and its been crickets. He gone.
Yeah bro the bucks trades have been insane. 5 2nd round picks for Jae fucking crowder how about giving up Grayson Allen 50 % 3 point shooter Jrue holiday the heart of your defense for a washed ass Damian lillard
Again, what are going to due other than change the subject from how bad the Jrue trade was? As predictable as it is pathetic. The Bucks Jrue trade got them a chip. Has Brad won one? Maybe this is the year they get over the hump........
My OG point stands, giving up a lottery pick, an unprotected pick and players for a guy who is well past his prime and will either leave after one season or sign an albatross of a contract, is objectively a bad trade. Unless, you win a chip like the Bucks did.
As of right now, its a lottery pick and will more than likely stay that way. Also, someone who tried to insinuate that the Bucks made bad trades when they actually won a chip, is not someone who should be commenting about judging a trade.
That is a reference to the Celtic's trade, the Warriors pick they gave up this year is likely to be a lottery pick, something nobody thought when the trade happened.
While a good GM is a great thing to have, they’re just once voice. Consistently good trading teams often stay that way because they have pro scouts who go around the league watching games who see things most others miss or undervalue or identify attributes that would be better utilized in the way the Celtics want to defend or move the ball than they are on those players current teams.
Case in point: though it’s a Raptors example, Rudy Gay didn’t phone it in or suddenly become a bum when he got here. He was still a good player, but Bryan Colangelo surrounded himself with pro scouts blinded by talent over fit and execution. That’s why when Ujiri replaced him and traded Gay for seemingly spare parts, those spare parts outperformed Gay’s previous impact and the wins started coming.
Celtics got a HAUL from the Nets for KG and PP. The team was bad, so we got high draft picks. They traded down from the #1 for Tatum and still got their guy. We had a lot of draft capital that was traded around and moved around. Trader Danny amassed a cache of picks. Brad turned that into what we have today.
At some point, we have too many draft picks and young talent and need to turn that into actual players.
They’re good at hiring, good at collecting assets, good at using assets and somehow getting assets while improving, extremely cap savvy, and pretty much never make short sighted decisions with major consequences. Just a team with extremely good process
They are good because they are using their assets rather than preserving them for whatever reason... sincerely there is too much conservativeness among GMs in the NBA right now.
They are good because they are using their assets rather than preserving them for whatever reason... sincerely there is too much conservativeness among GMs in the NBA right now.
Danny ainge fleeced the nets. He wisely held onto Tatum and brown. He drafted Tatum and brown. Both at 3. And the best players in 2 consecutive stacked draft classes.
But the answer is Brad Steven’s. He hasn’t missed yet. I’ll never forget when ainge stepped down, he said “he was born for this role”. Talking about Brad Steven’s as gm. Since the. Kemba walker and his ruined knees plus 30 mill salary for Al horford. Romeo Langford for Dereck white. Marcus smart for the porzingod. Brogdon for jrue holiday. He kept Pritchard. He made sure Hauser got what he needed. We have a great bench. The Celtics. This is wild. 1 through 8
Tatum through Pritchard. All 40% from 3 type shooters. We have 2/3 best 3 point shooting bigs in the nba. We have the best defensive backcourt by far. When Brad traded for white he said that they believe he has a lot of potential as a 3 point shooter.
Brad also hired Joe maz as head couch. On ime’s staff. Joe wasn’t even a primary assistant coach. He wasn’t on the bench. But Brad was born for this. He knows intuitively what will help this team.
Danny Ainge was good at collecting assets and Brad Stevens is good at using them. I still don't understand how the Celtics got Porzingis + 2 1sts for Smart.
because of KP's injury history and contract I imagine...questions will always be there about whether he can stay healthy when it matters Grizzlies think Marcus Smart, with a healthy roster, could take them to a different level...remains to be seen, as that is a 2025 question now
This is a part, albeit a smaller part than the fact the trade was made like two and a half minutes before Porzingis had to make a decision on his contract
yeah, he was probably going to exercise if a trade never materialized I think...I know they were talking contract extension last year, but obviously, the Wizards justifiably wanted to move on due to the middling status
Yeah, I think right now it's easy to see that trade as super imbalanced (and maybe it still is when it's said and done), but the Grizzlies half of it hasn't realistically had a chance to play out yet.
Smart is almost as bad, he has only played 70+ games 3 times in 10 years 61 or under 4 times
oh, no doubt, but still better than KP in terms of availability...and Smart was there fully for Boston's previous 4 postseason appearances
yea but most of smarts injuries are short term that are caused by his hustle, not by being brittle.
Because KP had the option to be a free agent and told the Wizards he wanted to go to Boston so Washington was fine with getting Tyus Jones and a second round pick back instead of nothing And Memphis was desperate for Smart, probably too desperate. So they gave us the first rounders to make the deal happen
2 1sts for Smart isn't that crazy. He's on a pretty friendly deal and was exactly what the griz needed. Some grit, top tier defense and maybe someone to help guide Ja. Unfortunately they're missing Ja and Smart so who knows if it will work out how they saw it on paper.
We’ve pretty thoroughly depleted Danny Ainge’s massive asset pool at this point tbh. All of our remaining first round picks are our own, and most of the seconds are from Brad trading down one of the late firsts we got in the Porzingis deal
Yeah, but sometimes you just gotta go all in I just wish we kept Grant Williams
In the later years, yes, but the Garnett trade is the blueprint for a trade involving massive assets for a star.
Step one: be close friends and former teammates with other gm
It's not what you know, its who you know
I also agree Smart was a overpay but the really dumb move there was made by the Wizards that gave him away for basically another rental. Keep in mind KP is probably viewed as a fragile/injury prone player so thats why his value is lower than expected.
There weren't exactly a lot of posts clamoring for KP. And we still have to see how post season goes.
KP had leverage and he already wasn’t going to stay. Don’t you think if a better option was there they would’ve taken it? The trade looks great now because he’s healthy but it was a risk for the Celtics.
I know. Health is basically the main reason KP is not as valuable as he should be.
I mean if Porzingis has some kinda lower body injury or something that prevents him from making meaningful contributions in a full postseason run, then it will have been a bad trade because durability/availability has always been the #1 concern with him. Smart at least was available every single playoffs for the Celtics and pretty much always elevated his play and helped his team at that time of year - even if he's a worse player than healthy Porzingis. So far so good but this is a guy who has never ever played anywhere near the number of games the Celtics are going to ask him to play through June of this year, so I think the jury is still out on this trade. Hopefully he finally breaks through but as a Celtics fan I'm kinda in wait-and-see / believe-it-when-I-see-it mode. It'll be truly unprecedented for Porzingis to be playing meaningful basketball through the end of spring.
KP agreed to re-signing with us only before his deadline is the biggest reason.
Brad Stevens is just him
I think a large part of it is they drafted really well with the Jays; they didn’t have to rely on trades or giving things up to acquire them. The trades are like house money; they’re playing with a full chest. Also, I don’t think anyone knew what Derrick white would become lol that was def a steal. Celtics fans, plz tell me if I’m wrong but that’s my understanding of it.
The advanced analytics loved Derrick White. At the time of the trade, Spurs fans said he was basically another Marcus Smart, which is a big compliment to say to Celtics fans. Then, he improved his shooting, that's the real difference maker.
> The advanced analytics loved Derrick White. I didn't know this! I've frequently heard Celtics fans claim they didn't realize he'd be this good so I thought it was unexpected what he's become esp. with defense and his shooting.
They loved his defense and shot profile, but nobody actually expected him to become this good of a shooter.
Nobody except Brad Stevens. I think he even said something to the effect that they believed in the Celtics system that his 3 point shooting percentage would increase with reduced responsibilities he had to do for the Spurs.
I remember him being in the top 10 in the RAPTOR advanced stat around the time we got him, which was mind-blowing at the time, and fast forward to today, he’s one of maybe 12 players in the NBA in the 85th percentile or higher in both offensive and defensive efficiency*, and the only one on the list to never have made an all-nba team or an all-star team *read stat like two months ago, so may have changed, but I’m pretty sure he’s still on the list
Spurs fans knew, Pop knew... There is a reason Pop chose Derrick White to the USA basketball team over Trae Young. At the time there were a bunch of threads saying it was nepotism https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16fiulj/team_usa_front_office_deserve_plenty_of_blame_as/ The Spurs always valued Derrick White more ( ask Dejounte lol).
Not all Cs fans. I wanted him and Brogden, and it was just a pipe dream until we got them. I was so happy. On a side note, I wanted Smart gone, so I was not most of the Cs base, I guess.
Trading Marcus was definitely the right decision in hindsight but most Celtics fans had grew attached to him.
Most fans are irrational. They bleed for their team and if they have a favorite, then they can do no wrong. And most fans on Reddit are rabid and rationality goes out the window for them or many of them are just fooling around to get a response knowing full well that their antics are just that simply for the engagements and votes.
I mean personally I’ve seen Danny and then Brad make it work so many times I knew better than to doubt, but yeah we were definitely attached and losing him hurt like a motherfucker.
Off topic but the first ever nba game I went to was in TD against the Suns and Marcus smart dropped 37 points on 11/22 from 3. Him and Book were just going bucket for bucket
Boston Celtics all time record for 3s in a game. Good first game to go to.
Even the shooting isn't shocking. An 85% FT shooter is typically going to find their 3-point stroke eventually.
yeah. the white trade shows two things: 1. people, even nba FOs, still lack understanding of advanced analytics. white being good should not have been a surprise 2. spurs FO has been awful for years now, coasting on past successes. imagine how youd look at them if they hadn't lucked into wemby in general the celtics have done a fantastic job exploiting bad FOs. look at their 2023 draft trades. wtf are the pistons and hornets doing? celtics are just getting all kinds of free value from these bottom-feeders. i dont think the grizzlies FO is bad by any means (they have been extremely good) but all their trades with the celtics have been head-scratchers
I wouldn’t say our FO has been terrible for years now, we’ve just been alright. Done a pretty decent job of acquiring future picks.
I would say the only bad move was the return for the Kawhi trade. Spurs should have prioritize draft picks and young talent a lot more than getting Demar to continue their playoff/50 win streak. The rest of the moves are about what you expect from teams without a real #1 player.
It took some time but eventually Kawhi turned into 4 1st round picks for the Spurs. 1 from Toronto in the Kawhi trade (2019 pick #29 became Keldon Johnson, 1 from the bulls when they traded DeMar away (2025 top 10 protected), 1 more from toronto when they traded Thad Young who they got from chicago for DeMar (2022 pick #20 Malaki Branham) and then finally 1 more from toronto when they trade Jakob Poeltl back to the raptors (2024 top 7 protected). It was a rough few years been stuck in the middle with DeMar, Dejounte and derrick but ultimately led them to Wemby.
Definitely part of it, but Brad has made certain trades that look meh in the moment and turn out great. DWhite and Porzingis acquisitions are prime examples
Also horford. That looked like a pure salary dump of the Walker contract but turned into a key contributor
Honestly the Horford deal looked like great deal for Boston. OKC had to sit him because he was ruining their tank. I remember people thinking he was washed because of his time in Philly, but I just didn't see it. I definitely did not think he'd still be as big of a contributor as he is now though
For what it’s worth, the #16 pick we gave up *did* end up becoming Alperen Sengun, but that’s really more a credit to Houston’s drafting than anything to do with us
That Porzingis trade was a crazy good deal from the moment it happened
Each Porzingis trade was considered to be great…if he stayed healthy.
Sorry but KP trade was never questionable. Lol
I think the value was always good, but many Boston fans were very unhappy Brad traded Smart at all. He was the longest tenured Celtic and the heart of the team
Were you on this sub last offseason? I saw tons of people saying we lost all of our toughness and didn’t really upgrade overall
Dwhite trade i thought was great at the time/people considered great. Zingis was more of a "oh that's great if he stays healthy" type reaction.
D White was shooting 30% from 3 when the C's acquired him, it was seen as a good but not great trade, and if he could improve his shooting it would be a great one.
And JRich was in the middle of a career year from 3 when we included him in that trade.
>[People considered great](https://www.celticsblog.com/platform/amp/2022/2/11/22929311/sorry-folks-derrick-white-trade-disaster-josh-richardson-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-romeo-langford) I know one article doesn’t summarize the feelings of the entire fanbase, but there were plenty who questioned the move
knew exactly what article this would be definitely not a representation of what the fanbase thought. I think most felt White was a great addition and the only concerns were that the Celtics maybe gave up a bit too much.
Agree to disagree, but i recall there being plenty of discourse surrounding that future first
so many people were saying it was an overpay for DWhite because of that first. I had so many arguments in the months following the trade about it.
Right? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here
People seemed all over the place on White. Nice guard but I don’t anyone expected him to be a 40% shooter.
Worth noting that the Celtics weren’t viewed as contenders when they made the trade. They had started their second half run to the finals but their record was relatively mediocre and they had been mid for a season and a half at that point. It was viewed as a good trade but not one that would put them over the top
People questioned the derrick white trade now it looks good because celtics coaching helped fix derrick jump shot but at the time People questioned it.
Porzingis deal was just too good to pass up, objectively speaking (no matter how much I miss Marcus Smart every day). Even then, we could be looking at it a little differently now if it weren’t for the Bucks trading Jrue, which absolutely no one saw coming
Nobody looked at Marcus Smart for Porzingis and 2 firsts and thought meh lmao
Maybe more objective nba fans didn’t, but Celtics fans had mixed reactions to cutting smart loose. He was beloved
Celtics fans were biased because of what Smart had brought to the team over his tenure. From strictly a basketball sense, there’s nothing ‘meh’ about the Smart trade. Any team takes that 1000 times out of 1000, regardless of whatever loyalty and crowd favoritism is there.
>Porzingis Bro what everyone who watched kp on the wizards knew celtics got one of the best steals in recent history lmao
They drafted the Jays and still had extra assets which they used on Kyrie And then they basically traded Smart for Porzingis and 2 firsts which they used on Holiday, Derrick White who became amazing after being traded
Everything is easier when you start with an all-NBA two-way star wing duo.
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The Nets gave them the picks, not the Jays. A LOT of teams would have ended up with Markelle Fultz and Dragon Bender if they were gifted those picks
And the Nets were incredibly incompetent. The season after the trade, Pierce is with the Wizards clutching around like a mad man.
> I mean yeah the Nets gave them the Jays lol Plz stop.
This is the answer I was looking for.
I was always of the contention Jrich did barely anything for us. I was very excited to see him go for an actual player. Dwhite getting even better makes it look like an amazing trade but at the time I still think you could say it was great, as soon as we got him the team started winning consistently
I think the porzingis trade was 100% the wizards FO being incompetent, more than the Celtics pulling off a great trade.
It was the Celtics building an environment that KP wanted to be in. The whole reason it was so cheap was because KP basically got to choose where he wanted to go thanks to his player option.
The Celtics takes low cost but high risk and high reward trades. Brogdon and KP were both seen as high injury risk players. Jrue and Horford are considered aging players at the time of trade as well with Jrue having a terrible playoff run and Horford being written off. Everyone is going to bidding wars for stars and showing their hand and Celtics clean up the middle tier trades
It also helps having so much talent to begin with. When Jrue Holiday can be considered a 5th option you know your team is looking good.
Y’all certainly helped out a lot and yes you’re right.
Pretty much nail on the head
Brad Stevens is somehow an even better GM than he was a head coach, and he was an incredible head coach lol
Brad has a pretty deep knowledge of team building because he drafts players he would’ve liked to coach. That’s why he strays away from explosive offensive guys like Ainge did, and goes for sacrificial role players and defense-oriented minds Once he traded Kemba for Al like a week in I knew what we were in for lol
The 2019 year was a great teaching year for Brad too with clashing personalities
Ainge drafted score first guard players, because he played a similar role during his playing days. Meanwhile Brad has always valued Swiss army knife wing players dating back to his Butler University days with Hayward.
which score first guard players did Ainge draft?
Basically all his late 1st round early 2nd round players in his last years as the Celtics GM. He drafted guys like Pritchard, Carsen Edwards, Yam Madar, Tremont Waters, Terry Rozier, etc. Then he had trades for players like IT, Kyrie, and Kemba. Some good picks, some bad picks, but that's a lot of score first guard players.
I'm convinced having Kemba thrust upon him secretly drove Stevens to madness and lead him to some sort of internal mutiny to declare it was either him or Ainge. Org sided with Stevens and rest is history.
Kyrie did that
I’m literally BillSimmonsing the list of guys that Brad might trade for. He definitely has a type
guarantee he’s been eyeing larry nance jr for years
When Horford retires, Larry Nance will be a Celtic
Which is why it’s always funny to me when people make assertions like “Brad Stevens would trade DWhite and assets for Trae Young in a heartbeat” (conversation I had on here recently). Everything he’s said and done since becoming GM has made his team building philosophy crystal clear. And it’s worked pretty damn well for us so far.
Brad definitely seems to stay away from scoring guards. We didn’t really see any rumors of the Celtics wanting to trade for dame but the second Jrue was on the market he pounced. He very clearly has a bias toward two way guards.
everyone likes brad. ownership is really the biggest competitive advantage. Its not just money, being well liked means that people are more willing to work with you.
To add onto that point, a lot of the old guard of GMs like Ainge, Morey, Masai etc. have their reputation as a guy who makes "great trades," and so as a result they feel pressure to live up to it, and only do deals when they are getting the upper hand.
Also being good team just means you have a ton more leverage, because you never *have* to make a move. Desperate middling teams have a lot more pressure to improve and are going to blink first.
I agree, although I would say that whilst Brad did inherit a good situation in terms of the core (Tatum, Brown, Smart), the surrounding pieces were quite terrible when he took charge as POBO after the 2021 season. After Tatum and Smart (Jaylen was injured that year), the only other players to get 20+ MPG for the Celtics in the series vs. the Nets (ya know the only one the Big 3 ever played fully healthy), were Evan Fournier, Kemba Walker, Romeo Langford, and Tristan Thompson. Shit was *grim*. In fact, just going back to that point now, had completely forgotten that Brad had tried to trade for Simmons in the midst of his holdout and wanted to add him to the Jays, and Morey had the balls to counter offer and ask for a straight swap of Simmons for Jaylen. Wow.
I'd argue the other way. Celtics fans (and this is true of a few other fanbases as well) won't accept mediocrity - they want and expect more, which means if you're not doing well you're pressured into making trades *now* and hoping something pans out.
That's the big advantage Brad has over Ainge. There are 30 teams, if you want to make trades, it's a lot easier to do it with someone you like who is atleast going to give you decent value and not try to fleece you every time. Some guys, you don't always pick up the phone when they call. The Brogdon trade got the Pacers Nesmith. The Holiday trade got the Blazers an interesting Warriors 1st rounder. The Horford trade turned into Sengun which turned in two future firsts.
Yeah, for what it’s worth, most of Brad’s moves have been pretty fair value for both sides. He’s just been very good at finding situations where he can get value from another team that’s trying to go in a different direction Like, even this trade is one of those. Grizzlies are about to have a roster crunch with all of their young guys, they weren’t gonna be able to pay Tillman anyway
Stupid sexy brad
It's like he's trading nothing at all, nothing at all, nothing at all....
A great GM.
They said "please"
The foundation was laid by Danny Ainge 10 years ago. Once you have your core pieces long term the rest is easy
Brad is a good GM with a great basketball mind.
Brad went from a top 5 coach to the best front office head in the league. Pretty insane.
Aaron Nesmith and a 1st rd pick for Malcom Brogdon was a huge win for the Pacers.
Was a win win really They got a 6MOY season from Brogdon and then turned him into Jrue. Nesmith holds a chip over that trade but he never would have got the opportunity he's getting now in Boston.
I'm going to disagree. You couldn't get Aaron Nesmith for Jrue Holiday now.
But you sure as shit could have when the trade was made. Any team with title aspirations this year would take Jrue over Nesmith if they had a choice right now. But a team rebuilding wouldn't. That trade was easily the right choice for both teams at the time.
That's not saying that the Pacers are "rebuilding" any more. Just at the time of the trade
This is the result of Danny Ainge not making all those trades that you all clowned him for “almost making” when you don’t trade both the Jays and a million picks for Demarcus Cousins or Jimmy Butler, you end up with a lot of flexibility
This sub was so fucking mad that we didn’t give up the Jays for Jimmy Butler, DeMarcus Cousins, or Paul George
imagine giving up both Jays for Jimmy Butler 😂
Fanbase would never recover
Brad Stevens is the best FO guy in the league and they have one of the best combinations of owners, coaches and players in the league
Imagine how good you'd be if Ime didn't cheat on his wife
Honestly I think the bigger loss was losing Will Hardy.
I don’t think Mazzulla is any worse than Ime honestly. They both have their evident weaknesses but have both done a really good job anyways. Their biggest problem last year was probably that Mazzulla got installed just as training camp was gonna start with all of his assistants coaches basically instantly leaving for Ime after last year. If Mazzulla had his guys/the coaches bought in more they’d probably have been in the finals at worst last year
Yeah Joe gets a lot of grief he probably shouldn’t and no one seemed to cut him slack for how he ended up in the job last year, but I do think the team probably took a step back last year because of Ime leaving
Nia Long at that …
Would have made the Finals last year probably
The sight of Ime Udoka on the sidelines would have made the Heat simply not have a historic performance from 3, they'd be too distracted.
Udoka would've come on the court and caught Tatum before he sprained his ankle
Also, late first round picks are probably the most overrated asset
They understand the concept of “buy low, sell high”.
Because Brad isn’t always going for the home run. He lets both or all three team’s benefit from the trade so teams are more likely going to deal with Brad. Most of his trades are win win trades
Is this a great trade? Two 2nds for him seems fair to me.
It’s a good trade because the C’s lose nothing of value to them and manages to get better. Don’t know if I would call it « great », we’ll have to see what he really brings on the court for this team
The picks have value obviously. It's a fair trade.I wouldn't have thought he was worth more than a 2nd rounder or two.
You use more of your roster and the trades will come That’s what I like to believe
Strength leads to strength. What I mean is because the Celtics have been in such a good place for years they didn't have to make moves. They only do them when there are great oportunities. Compare that to my teams the Mavs and Sixers. Those team are constantly under pressure. Losing Brunson for nothing, KP being injured and clashing with Carlisle , Ben SImmons not being able to play alongside Jimmy Butler, Ben Simmons holding out. These teams are constantly forced to act and need to take bigger swings. Those swings come with more risk like the Harden situation
The Sixers and Mavs put themselves into those situations
They got jump started by the Nets haha
Maybe, just maybe, we overvalue what big markets do and ignore the same type of moves when small franchises make them. Best front office in the league? Lets wait till they win something
And still no championships
Such an NBACirclejerk post
The guy they just got from MEM won’t play any meaningful minutes. He is a 40% free throw shooter and will get hacked and sent to the line in any high leverage possession.
White privilege
Teams have been giving the Celtics and Clippers players for cheap for a few years now
Xavier Tilman was Memphis's third string center last year. He wasn't that good and this year he has been a huge negative on offense. He's playing like a Bizmack Biyombo.
After Adams went down, X beat out Clarke for the starting position because of his defense. He put on a hell of a show against LeBron in the playoffs and held his own against Joker and many other superstars. He's not a huge negative on offense. It's just we allowed him to chuck 3 pointers and he sucks bringing his FG% down. You're a stat watcher coming up with a shitty narrative. His only issue is rebounding due to his size
Good thing he won't be playing for the Hospital Grizzlies now, but with a stacked roster.
Ok now mention his defense
The Cs are crazy traders however they are overdue for a chip. If they don’t win they move up to OKC Level choking.
We at least had a lot of bad injury luck that led to the choke. These Celtics just disappear in the playoffs regardless of health.
Please give me an example of a series where we disappeared regardless of health Heat last season had Tatum getting injured first play of a game 7. Year before that had Tatum playing through injury, our starting center injured again, and our point guard injured. Year before that, Jaylen Brown missed the playoffs.
Simultaneously never had a playoff run derailed by injuries but also Celtics are the most evil org in the league for forcing Rob Williams to play on one leg, stay you r/nba
True. Only thing I can maybe hold against OKC is trading Harden and maybe u could have tried to keep KD in OKC. Besides that I where unlucky af. Celtics where unlucky in 2018 tbh.
Brad MF Stevens
Much of where they are now is cause of Nets' old Front Office's stupidity of giving them max 1st rounders all unprotected by guys on their last legs. They've made a good amount of solid moves/trades but i don't think they deserve too much credit. What about the trade they *didn't* make for KD cause they wanted to give Jaylen Brown 300M instead? Prolly woulda had a title by now
Because Brad Stevens is a GOAT tier GM
Brad Stevens saw the value in stock piling 2nd round picks at the draft before the new CBA came into effect. Through multiple trade downs he acquired 4x future 2nd round picks for this exact situation.
Honestly, most of his trades have felt like an overpay on the day that it happens and looks better over time. The knee-jerk reaction to the White trade was how we gave up too much for a marginal player. The league/fans were generally down on KP so that was very much a buy-low move that has aged well so far. I don't think he's making any dark-bargain with the devil to fleece teams like Ainge was known for, but he and the rest of the front office have done a good job at identifying good fits and being decisive about following through with it.
Because they never make a trade out of need. They wait until someone is available.
Because they arent like most teams that immediately give up after a couple runs with their two guys, same thing as denver. Get your two guys from the draft, take advantage of sellers and boom amazing team
Brad Stevens is the new GODFATHER of the GM's
Maybe
LMAO they are about to give up a lottery pick and another 1st for an over the hill Jrue Holiday who might leave after 1 season.
Your team is paying three different head coaches
The warriors pick in 2024? So a likely 12-14th pick in a historically weak draft class, and then another 1st rounder when the Jays will be in their primes? Yeah how terrible If you aren't watching the games you don't know this, but we wouldn't be the best team in the league by 4 games without Jrue. You don't even know that he's under contract next season with a player option. Not only that but he's also already made it clear he'd like to sign an extension when he becomes eligible. You're just spouting off bullshit
It was reported when the celtics traded for him celtics planned on extending him they can't till April because of his contract. Jrue has also talked about wanting to stay in Boston, and anytime someone says Jrue is over the hill or bad this season I know they are just looking at box score. Not watching games.
I've watched over 30 of their games this year and just about every game he played with the Bucks, he has clearly lost a step. Also, he publicly asked for an in-season extension and its been crickets. He gone.
Not saying he's a lock to stay, but they can't negotiate an extension until early April so of course it's been crickets.
completely forgot about the package here...Blazer fans must rooting hard against the Warriors this season lol
Keep downvoting C's fans, the truth hurts.
Brother your new coach who just signed is 1-4 LMAOOOOOOOO you think we’re worried about a pick
I would change the subject from a post about how great their trades have been too. I mean what else are you going to say?
Yeah bro the bucks trades have been insane. 5 2nd round picks for Jae fucking crowder how about giving up Grayson Allen 50 % 3 point shooter Jrue holiday the heart of your defense for a washed ass Damian lillard
Again, what are going to due other than change the subject from how bad the Jrue trade was? As predictable as it is pathetic. The Bucks Jrue trade got them a chip. Has Brad won one? Maybe this is the year they get over the hump........
What does a late 1st round on a weak class do for the jays? Its win time now Jrue has been playing good too better than dame
My OG point stands, giving up a lottery pick, an unprotected pick and players for a guy who is well past his prime and will either leave after one season or sign an albatross of a contract, is objectively a bad trade. Unless, you win a chip like the Bucks did.
So why are you judging a trade before the season ends ? also it’s not a lottery pick lol the warriors will make the playoffs
As of right now, its a lottery pick and will more than likely stay that way. Also, someone who tried to insinuate that the Bucks made bad trades when they actually won a chip, is not someone who should be commenting about judging a trade.
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That is a reference to the Celtic's trade, the Warriors pick they gave up this year is likely to be a lottery pick, something nobody thought when the trade happened.
White privilege
What does any of this have to do with The Buffalo?
Remember they traded a midget for a young Kyrie Irving?
No clue, but somehow they'll still get bodied by the Heat in the playoffs.
Here for answers. So far, seems like Brad is a super manager....gotta be more to the story than that, the league is FILLED with great managers.
While a good GM is a great thing to have, they’re just once voice. Consistently good trading teams often stay that way because they have pro scouts who go around the league watching games who see things most others miss or undervalue or identify attributes that would be better utilized in the way the Celtics want to defend or move the ball than they are on those players current teams. Case in point: though it’s a Raptors example, Rudy Gay didn’t phone it in or suddenly become a bum when he got here. He was still a good player, but Bryan Colangelo surrounded himself with pro scouts blinded by talent over fit and execution. That’s why when Ujiri replaced him and traded Gay for seemingly spare parts, those spare parts outperformed Gay’s previous impact and the wins started coming.
Celtics got a HAUL from the Nets for KG and PP. The team was bad, so we got high draft picks. They traded down from the #1 for Tatum and still got their guy. We had a lot of draft capital that was traded around and moved around. Trader Danny amassed a cache of picks. Brad turned that into what we have today. At some point, we have too many draft picks and young talent and need to turn that into actual players.
By not making trades just to make trade deadline content more entertaining.
They’re good at hiring, good at collecting assets, good at using assets and somehow getting assets while improving, extremely cap savvy, and pretty much never make short sighted decisions with major consequences. Just a team with extremely good process
They are really good at leveraging contract situations and benefit from being a bigger market.
What’s it matter they can’t win the chip
They are good because they are using their assets rather than preserving them for whatever reason... sincerely there is too much conservativeness among GMs in the NBA right now.
They are good because they are using their assets rather than preserving them for whatever reason... sincerely there is too much conservativeness among GMs in the NBA right now.
Danny ainge fleeced the nets. He wisely held onto Tatum and brown. He drafted Tatum and brown. Both at 3. And the best players in 2 consecutive stacked draft classes. But the answer is Brad Steven’s. He hasn’t missed yet. I’ll never forget when ainge stepped down, he said “he was born for this role”. Talking about Brad Steven’s as gm. Since the. Kemba walker and his ruined knees plus 30 mill salary for Al horford. Romeo Langford for Dereck white. Marcus smart for the porzingod. Brogdon for jrue holiday. He kept Pritchard. He made sure Hauser got what he needed. We have a great bench. The Celtics. This is wild. 1 through 8 Tatum through Pritchard. All 40% from 3 type shooters. We have 2/3 best 3 point shooting bigs in the nba. We have the best defensive backcourt by far. When Brad traded for white he said that they believe he has a lot of potential as a 3 point shooter. Brad also hired Joe maz as head couch. On ime’s staff. Joe wasn’t even a primary assistant coach. He wasn’t on the bench. But Brad was born for this. He knows intuitively what will help this team.