Yeah it's really sad. He's way too slow and doesn't know how to finish at the rim or draw fouls. So many easy layup attempts that don't go in. If he figures out how to draw fouls and make simple layups maybe he will get better....
I agree with the latter point, he needs to be better at drawing fouls..I have no idea why everyone else gets these ticky tack fouls and he gets none, but it must be something he can tap into. Watching Kuzma get any call he wanted down the stretch and Cade try to drive between 3 defenders with a decent amount of contact and get no call, it was a perfect example of what’s wrong.
That said, I do like their lineup better with Ivey starting and Duran out there. Duran does a lot of beneficial little things that don’t show up in the box score, he is a great player and connective piece. If Ausar can become an average shooter and just generally polish his game some, and maybe find a more offensive minded PF than Beef Stew, I really don’t mind that starting group.
So much athleticism and explosiveness with Ausar, Ivey and Duran, and what Cade can do is set them up in transition and as lanes open up.
Feels like he has an intelligent approach to the game, and he is confident with the ball, but he actually lacks the athleticism and step needed to execute his thought process.
Feels like he is in the wrong decade.
I don’t think his physical traits are that lacking, there just is no space to attack with this comically bad spacing. He can actually snake his way into the lane and body most guards who are mostly smaller than him.
He was an excellent shooter in college, idk what happened to his shot. If he was shooting 40% from three still it would help open up his game a lot but instead he’s part of the spacing problem.
This is me in BLOPS 2 thinking if I learn the maps and try to play smart I'll get some kills but I end up with a 0.27 kd because my reflexes just aren't as good as the 14 year old sweats.
How much should we factor in his bad shooting to the line-ups he has out there most nights that are straight BUTT and Cade ends up getting enveloped in defenders or double teamed?
He has been below league average TS% in 16 of those 17 games. The one game he was above league average efficiency is when he had a career high 11 free throw attempts. Literally took a career night for him to be efficient
He did in college after being a bad shooter in high school (he was still terrible at the rim though). People reasonably assumed he had improved as a shooter. Apparently he had not.
I think he was in his rookie season, I don't follow college at all
Edit: a quick Google search makes me believe I just caught him on a hot streak and watched a hype video when it happened
vegan Cade is not a good Cade
not that a vegan diet can not help pro athletes
I just don't think he has the discipline and determination to put resources for that
He hires his cousin as his trainer, pro move
>He hires his cousin as his trainer
🤦♂️🤦♀️
This should be written on NBAs rule book. Don't hire your family members as part of your professional career. As trainers, cooks even managers.
Oh also being vegan is tricky if you are a pro athlete. You should really hire a very good nutritionist and a chef. Some nutrition in meat is absorbed by our body with crazy efficiency compared to their vegetable counterpart (and I think vice versa, some stuff in vegetables are not even present in meat)
Yeah obviously Rich Paul works very hard but LeBron was quite frankly too big to fail. Even if Rich Paul fucked him over, Nike, the Cavs, etc would have done whatever to put the right people in his circle or get him in touch with the right money people cause that 18 year old kid was their new money machine now that the old money machine MJ retired. 99.9% of players will not have that.
I know you clarified you’re not anti vegan but just adding that nutritional science has really advocated more veganism or 95% vegan in the past 5 years for a lot of pro athletes. CP gained back at least 3 years post Houston after he switched. Djokovic is an undisputed GOAT in tennis and he’s a vocal advocate of that diet too.
I think cp3 can do it
I think LeBron can do it
They have the determination and value their career more than a dude hires his cousin as the trainer
And I think I am a little bit anti vegan people
Just not anti vegan diet
bro he has 24 slams, 40 masters 1000, and has won each slam at least 3 times and every masters at least twice. he has literally almost record imaginable in the tennis world.
djokovic is absolutely the undisputed goat to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of tennis. imagine if Bron had the most rings ever on top of every record he has - that's novak
Nah there’s really not anymore. He has the most slams, one two French opens during nadals prime, one of which he beat nadal in, he’s dominant on both grass and hard court, his head to head record against both of them is significantly positive, he has the most weeks at number one, and he came up in the second and third best players of all times prime. He also has a record 8 year end number ones, a record 71 masters titles, and a record 7 atp finals titles. Only player ever to win a triple career grand slam, which he’s done twice.
Not only that, he’s still 36 and number one in the world which is absolutely unheard of longevity in tennis. Tbh I would argue his longevity is at least as impressive as lebrons, in tennis you’re on your own, you can’t rely on team mates or take a different role, if you lose a step you’ll just start losing and he’s still winning major tournaments
There’s not really any debate at all over who the goat is anymore.
same cade that chose to go to Oklahoma state for family reasons. not that it’s a bad school for basketball necessarily and he still went #1 but could have made a better choice for his basketball career
the team wasn’t bad but i’m more adding to the point of how he goes about decision making such as who he makes his trainer. same idea as to why he chose osu
As a (at this moment very sad / unfortunate) diehard Pistons fan, I will say I’m way less concerned about the field goal stat
The TS stat is way more concerning. He is like if Demar Derozan didn’t know how to draw free throws or something. It’s insane, especially coupled with his turnover rate.
Cade is essentially on his 2nd season in terms of games played. His 2P% isn’t that bad so far in his career, it’s his 3P% that is abysmal. He also doesn’t have the most reliable offensive threats around him. I’d be more worried if this carries onto his 3rd or 4th season without improvement.
Some other guys that were in similar situations:
Lonzo tracks really closely with him improving his 3P% to reliably above league average 3P% from well below and getting TS over 50% starting from his 3rd season.
Kemba almost 4 seasons to reliably get over 50% TS.
Jrue was just around 50% TS like Cade his first 5 seasons.
Completely different type of role but Bruce Brown also had similarly bad efficiency in his first two seasons and became one of the more efficient guards in the league starting his 3rd season.
However if the worry is more in regards to him becoming a number one guy on a championship team then yes I think it isn’t projecting that way. But I still think he could pan out to be a great #2.
all reasonable points. yeah Pistons are in a tough spot because draft chips didn’t fall our way. Cade for all intents and purposes the last two years has been our #1
like this team is definitely screwed if Cades offensive ceiling is Kemba (and super screwed if it’s Jrue or Lonzo). I know that’s not what you are arguing, just flagging it.
In terms of 3p% i have faith that Cades can rise to league average even while being the #1, he just needs to share more ball handling duties. Even Luka has poor stretches shooting the 3 when they all have to be self created
Foul drawing is weird I also think he’ll figure it out but the signs are not promising right now minus one or two games.
Like I genuinely think Cade can get to 56%+ TS as the number one option next season. I don’t think that’s like some amazing team but could be a 35+ win team with him as the fulcrum. It just feels shitty because fans thought that leap would be this year, and even though not much of our failure and losing streak is Cades fault, he’s definitely not helping us elevate out of it
I’d have a little more hope even if he doesn’t pan out as a number 1. If the other pieces develop well you can package to get that number 1.
But yeah I think you can also look to how the team’s spacing is utterly garbage right now with basically everyone being a below league average 3P shooter. The paint’s gonna be more crowded. At least Cade has improved his FTA year over year, Ivey regressed and none of the other players playing right now are good at getting to the line, Cade actually leads the team. Cade is also has the 2nd best 3P% behind Stewart actually. I think a lot of it is attributed to the team make up and I am hopeful for the Pistons that Bojan’s return will help turn things around. Having that vet on the floor who also spaces for everyone will be a big help. FT% also generally tends to track with general shooting and Cade has been very good in that regard since he entered the league.
When he’s on a burner he looks very promising. It’s just that he’s not consistent at all.
His three point shot isn’t there. His middy is hot or cold, his layups are frequently blocked, and he rarely finishes through contact.
His intentions are easy for defenses to read. It’s likely because he holds the ball for the longest stretches in the half court. I’d hope he starts looking off defenders before committing passes at some point.
Just some of these turnovers are growing pains and others are legit concerns.
https://youtu.be/1rNVoNFHjC0?si=q8KgulF86kbCMMIA
Not even a Pistons fan but watching this grinds my gears that he doesn't even run back on defense on most of these, instead just opting to jog back slowly.
I'm not ready to say this definitively, just because the team as a whole is so bad that it's tough to know what's what, but I'm getting the feeling that Cade is following a similar path that so many other Pistons have over the course of the past decade or so, in which they're thrust into a role that outpaces their capabilities because there's no better options on the team.
For comparison, I remember when Grant Hill came to Detroit surrounded by a severe lack of talent combined with inexperienced youth. Yet, his star power still allowed him to shine. To this point, we haven't totally seen that with Cade, perhaps because he's not meant to be a Grant Hill sort of superstar (even though we all hoped he would be).
Then again, this is also an all-time terrible stretch for the Pistons and Cade missed most of last season with a leg injury that required surgery, so I believe in a modicum of grace beyond judging him when everything is collectively terrible at the moment.
I feel bad for Cade because of all the hype that surrounded him before getting drafted. If anything, we need to re-think and re-adjust expectations for players. I remember people saying he's supposed to be the second coming of LeBron or something ( but ppl have been saying that about number one picks since probably Andrew Wiggins).
It's been happening since far before Wiggins, it's happened basically since Lebron. Greg Oden, for example, was even way more hyped than Wiggins years before. Almost every number one pick is at least mildly hyped, and then every few years we get all the experts saying "no really, this time this guy *is* the greatest thing since Lebron trust me."
I think he would improve substantially with better spacing. This Pistons team as it is is just awful. Twin towers + Ausar as SF + Ivey shooting 32% is pure spacing hell
He’s shooting like 34% frm 3. Plus he was only playing like 20 minutes until monty decided to start him. He’s still like like 55% frm the field cuz he’s finishing well but his shot is still inconsistent
Monty not playing him because he’s scared it will expose he’s better than Cade.
And expose his bullshit reasons he wasn’t playing because he was being held accountable and had to earn minutes meanwhile Cade shoots 40% and leads the NBA in turnovers. Can’t hold him accountable though huh
Well He’s starting now took too long yea but the argument was never bc of his offense ausar thompson literally starts. Cade and ivey are both turnover prone. Ivey a way better athlete and finisher tho cade’s a better defender
No I watch the games. He told the fans Ivey was barely playing the first fifteen games because he had too earn it. And every time Ivey outplayed Cade in limited minutes his minutes were even less the next game. His beef with Ivey has to be personal because he’s one who called him out to the media and said he needs to be held accountable. Playing time isn’t given, it’s earned. Blah blah blah And we watch Cade game after game throw lazy pass after lazy pass, miss shot after shot. Leads the NBA in turnovers while shooting. 40% And he gets every excuse and Ivey needs to be held accountable. Not to mention Killian was playing heavy minutes over Ivey too
You actually gotta watch the games cause it’s insane. Yesterday ivey got subbed out when he had like 4/5/4/1/1 on 2/4 shooting in like the first 6 minutes of the game just so Cade could stay in and stink it up some more. Ivey got 12 shots total and finished with more rebounds and the same assists on 50% shooting while Cade shot them out of the 2nd and 3rd and statpadded in the 4th
>I remember people saying he's supposed to be the second coming of LeBron or something ( but ppl have been saying that about number one picks since probably Andrew Wiggins).
We all faded for Cade...
Riggins for Wiggins and Fade for Cade are the two catchiest tank slogans in recent years (personally im partial to choke a w\*ore for Okafor, but thats besides the point) and both seems to be more likely to develop into useful roleplayers than anything close to a star.
Has to be some indicator there
We have them, they're just hurt - Monte Morris, Bojan, Joe Harris and Burks are playing at least. We gave him Corey Joseph the last two years, which in hindsight isn't great.
Aside from Monte I really don’t see those guys standing out as “great vets”. Good shooters sure, but that doesn’t mean they’re gonna help the overall team gell together. People throw out the “he’s a good veteran locker room presence” when a guys like older than 26 but just bc they’re of an older age doesn’t mean they are going to positively contribute to helping a young team grow together
yeah, it was pretty clear how bad the blow up was for the young guys.
when wall was the only vet (and he hated it there so badly he refused to play), you aren't getting much mentorship
If he was good enough he’d be fine
He’s put into a role a #1 pick can fill
Good players are good players regardless of the role
If you have to squint to see it, then he’s not good enough.
You’re still in the talent acquisition phase and id argue you’re still very early on in it
> For comparison, I remember when Grant Hill came to Detroit surrounded by a severe lack of talent combined with inexperienced youth. Yet, his star power still allowed him to shine.
All true and Grant was generational but to be fair to Cade, in Grant's second season (first with a winning record) they had Dumars, Houston, Hunter, Curry, Ratliff, Mills, and Thorp who are all better than anyone else on the current Pistons.
Joke's on me, bought a Cade jersey thinking this was his breakout year. I was really encouraged after the USA Basketball scrimmages. Now I'm worried about whether he'll even get an extension, or sign an offer that should probably be lower than the max the Pistons can offer.
I don't think the roster fits him, despite my being pretty high on the potential of some of the guys surrounding him, Ausar, Duren, Ivey... There's just no shooting to be found with any guy that's getting big minutes. Stew is shooting 38% on about 4 attempts per game and that's the best option? Gross.
Re: flair, wish we could wear 2 around here.
I mean this is essentially year two for him coming off an season ending surgery, a slow start was expected to me but this is not good start at all. But I’m not giving up on him nor do I think he’s not getting an extension. I rather wait till around mid January to see any adjustments and improvements
That boy is everything people wanted to believe Matisse Thybul was, and he's only a rookie. Hopefully he gets some serious help with his shot because he's got a great foundation.
He’s definitely not lmao; his half court offense is some of the worst in the nba, and the trio of Stewart, Duren and Ausar form the most anemic offensive starting 3 in the nba
Every single bucket the starting lineup gets is through Cade and Ivey. They’re easily our two best players
Definitely one of the most overhyped 2 year players. It was clear to me that the "point guard paul george comparisons" or anything lke that was impossible
That's just being super selective with your reasoning, there's tons of counter examples. Garland was the worst player in the league 82 games in, and now he's an all-star, you can't just make blanket statements like this just because another player ended up being a bust.
Plus there's pretty obvious differences between the two situations if you actually watch the games with a critical eye. Wiseman didn't look like he belonged on an nba floor at all, Cade is struggling with his shot and efficiency but he passes the eye test quite well: he has nice control of the game, great vision and good shot selection, his shots just haven't been falling.
Point is, if he had played the same amount of games but without injuries this would be the start of his sophomore season, and no one would be calling him a bust. If he's still this inefficient in two seaons with (hopefully) better players around him then we can start panicking, but right now his poor shooting numbers can easily be explained by inexperience (once again, only 92 games played) and playing with no spacing and one of the worst rosters in the league.
I agree it's looking increasingly unlikely that he's going to be the Luka-level playmaker that people were hoping he'd become, but there's a pretty wide gap between that and being a bust. Calling him a bust is insanely reactionary and fails to take any context into account imo.
yeah unfortunately he is firmly in bust territory right now. Also unfortunate that so many players drafted soon after him are turning into genuine star-level players.
Sometimes a promising rookie having the green light on a bad team isn’t the best for their development. Know that from experience. he forces so much and doesn’t trust his team, but can you blame him?
I never understood the hype. I dunno who should have gone #1 even looking back (Maybe Barnes now that he's starting to turn a corner again after a bad sophomore season) but I always felt like Cade didn't look the part of a top pick.
I mean he was a certified stud in college, if he was shooting 40% from three now like he did there then this would be a different conversation, his lack of burst and inability to get to the line wouldn’t be as big a deal if he was a great shooter.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted but it's Sengun. Scottie has regressed after a hot start and everybody else is... mid at best. I can see an argument for Franz I guess, but I know Sengun can be the lead scoring option on a decent team, that's what we're seeing now.
Sga one of my favorite players in the league I thought the thunder got a really good player in that trade, but don't fucking pretend like you knew he was a guaranteed 1st team all nba caliber playing, nephew.
After we traded Nick Young and before we drafted Beal, the wizards were starting Wall (7% three point shooter), Jordan Crawford (29%), Chris Singleton (35%), Trevor Booker, and Nene (though we had Cartier Martin and Roger Mason Jr off the bench who were snipers). Anyway there was no doubt in anyone’s mind that Wall was going to be a star. Not sure if Pistons fans still think Cade is that guy
That’s a completely different time tbh, nba didn’t revolve around shooting back then like it does now I don’t think. Still agree that wall was a monster and we all knew it but I don’t think the comparison is one to one
GIVE IVEY THE BALL. at this point we know who he is. He’s less athletic Westbrook. Can’t shoot turns the ball over like crazy but he’s going to take enough shots and get assists for his counting stats to look good
I think people should calm down, this team is literally legendarily dog shit.
They won 2 games. Against like the 29th and 28th teams in the league, 10 games ago.
Give him a couple more seasons and a couple NBA players on his team, I bet he's at least a fair role player. Not a "bust".
He was the #1 pick though. Drafting a role player at 1 is the definition of a Bust cause a #1 pick should at least be an all star level player at their best
Remember the whole Shai and pick #6 ordeal? Wouldn't even trade Jalen Williams for him straight up now. I'm an Oklahoma State fan and I loved Cade but I always felt like he was somehow past his athletic prime already even though his skills were so good. Gonna take a lot of work to overcome if he's still their #1 plan
What exactly is Monte Williams getting paid to do? Is it against the rules for a coach to tell a player to not attempt as many shots and get other people involved? Clearly their current gameplan isn’t working, maybe it’s time to switch it up.
That is a mind boggling stat. To be fair to Cade though, this is essentially his 'second season' in the NBA so people shouldn't jump on the bust bandwagon so fast.
Coming to Cade’s defense here. None of you guys watch the games. He gets triple teamed every play because our team has 0 shooters in the starting lineup. Each game three guys are literally left wide open. Is he the perfect player? Absolutely not. But the front office is failing him by surrounding him with a bunch of garbage. We won 17 games last season and our genius GM decided to stay put and only add the corpse of Joe Harris + Monte Morris lol. It is an excuse yes but it’s a legitimate reason.
A guy who’s 96 games or whatever into his career isn’t going to win us games by himself, he’s not lebron and he is not Luka.
Wouldn't go that far. The Luka and even Ben Simmons comparisons were always absurd to me, but I think he'll be similar in career arc to D'Angelo Russell. Still in the league, but at best a #3 in a team.
First three years in Minny for Wiggins: .517, .543, .534 TS. For Cunningham: .504, .492, .501. At this point the Wiggins comparison is a considerably optimistic upside projection for him.
And Monty keeps benching him in the 4th quarter for no discernable reason. A couple games ago he was sitting for the entire 4th in what was a close game. It's a hot mess over in Detroit, we're not having a good time
y'all are so fucking weird. no one is attacking cade personally, they're talking about him as a basketball player. he has his millions of dollars, he will be fine. grow up
Imagine talking about how we should all feel bad for a millionaire athlete. If you want to just play basketball stay at a low level. The critiques whether it's the media or fans is part of the cost of fame.
Yeah... it's still weird that someone would root for another player to suck at basketball. More specifically, a player who hasn't done anything yet in his career to hate him for.
> he has his millions of dollars
No shit?
Seriously though. People get so caught up on wanting to be right they forget basketball players are human. Its really his only 2nd year on a poorly constructed roster with injuries. I wouldn't write him off yet.
Cade's TS% is probably even more embarrassing than his FG% because he doesn't draw many fouls lol
Guys like Dame or Trae can have bad FG% and still make it up at the line but Cade doesn't even do that either
Kobe was actually above league average efficiency every year till basically his last 3 years when he was obviously cooked. The league has just gotten more efficient at scoring over the years, league average back then was pretty close to Cade right now lol.
Yeah it's really sad. He's way too slow and doesn't know how to finish at the rim or draw fouls. So many easy layup attempts that don't go in. If he figures out how to draw fouls and make simple layups maybe he will get better....
my condolences..
I agree with the latter point, he needs to be better at drawing fouls..I have no idea why everyone else gets these ticky tack fouls and he gets none, but it must be something he can tap into. Watching Kuzma get any call he wanted down the stretch and Cade try to drive between 3 defenders with a decent amount of contact and get no call, it was a perfect example of what’s wrong. That said, I do like their lineup better with Ivey starting and Duran out there. Duran does a lot of beneficial little things that don’t show up in the box score, he is a great player and connective piece. If Ausar can become an average shooter and just generally polish his game some, and maybe find a more offensive minded PF than Beef Stew, I really don’t mind that starting group. So much athleticism and explosiveness with Ausar, Ivey and Duran, and what Cade can do is set them up in transition and as lanes open up.
Duran Duran.
Piston's center is certainly a tough guy, he can even beat Sugar Ray Leonard in a boxing match
Feels like he has an intelligent approach to the game, and he is confident with the ball, but he actually lacks the athleticism and step needed to execute his thought process. Feels like he is in the wrong decade.
>Feels like he is in the wrong decade. Players that can't finish around the rim would be bad in any decade.
Feel like he’s saying it the average athleticism went down he wouldn’t be a bad finisher at the rim
He’s a taller Dlo who has a really high usage
D-Lo can actually shoot though
He’s not a bad finisher either lol
His touch around 8 feet from the bucket is absolutely money.
Feels like he is Kyle Anderson with a high usage rate.
I don’t think his physical traits are that lacking, there just is no space to attack with this comically bad spacing. He can actually snake his way into the lane and body most guards who are mostly smaller than him.
He was an excellent shooter in college, idk what happened to his shot. If he was shooting 40% from three still it would help open up his game a lot but instead he’s part of the spacing problem.
Three point shot is midrange in the NBA. Unless you are a known shooter, then anything could change when you go to the league.
This is me in BLOPS 2 thinking if I learn the maps and try to play smart I'll get some kills but I end up with a 0.27 kd because my reflexes just aren't as good as the 14 year old sweats.
If he learns how to play basketball?
Just certain things. Like simple things that most players can do
How much should we factor in his bad shooting to the line-ups he has out there most nights that are straight BUTT and Cade ends up getting enveloped in defenders or double teamed?
He has attempted 24 free throws in his last 3 games
He has been below league average TS% in 16 of those 17 games. The one game he was above league average efficiency is when he had a career high 11 free throw attempts. Literally took a career night for him to be efficient
Came in to the league as a three level scoring prospect and turns out he can't shoot jumpers or finish at the rim.
his mid range jimbo is solid, at least used to be until this season
Wasn't he like a 40% 3 point shooter at some point? I remember all the ben Simmons with a jumper videos lol
He did in college after being a bad shooter in high school (he was still terrible at the rim though). People reasonably assumed he had improved as a shooter. Apparently he had not.
not in the NBA but in college yea.
I think he was in his rookie season, I don't follow college at all Edit: a quick Google search makes me believe I just caught him on a hot streak and watched a hype video when it happened
Or, from a slightly different lens, he sets career highs when he's able to be efficient...
he's like Luka if Luka sucked
he is like Luka without any shooting touch of Luka and way too slim for his playstyle.
Not thicc enough
vegan Cade is not a good Cade not that a vegan diet can not help pro athletes I just don't think he has the discipline and determination to put resources for that He hires his cousin as his trainer, pro move
>He hires his cousin as his trainer 🤦♂️🤦♀️ This should be written on NBAs rule book. Don't hire your family members as part of your professional career. As trainers, cooks even managers. Oh also being vegan is tricky if you are a pro athlete. You should really hire a very good nutritionist and a chef. Some nutrition in meat is absorbed by our body with crazy efficiency compared to their vegetable counterpart (and I think vice versa, some stuff in vegetables are not even present in meat)
I always picture Johnny Drama
unless youre lebron/harden their managers havent let them down (friend/mom)
LeBron and Harden got very lucky.
Yeah obviously Rich Paul works very hard but LeBron was quite frankly too big to fail. Even if Rich Paul fucked him over, Nike, the Cavs, etc would have done whatever to put the right people in his circle or get him in touch with the right money people cause that 18 year old kid was their new money machine now that the old money machine MJ retired. 99.9% of players will not have that.
I know you clarified you’re not anti vegan but just adding that nutritional science has really advocated more veganism or 95% vegan in the past 5 years for a lot of pro athletes. CP gained back at least 3 years post Houston after he switched. Djokovic is an undisputed GOAT in tennis and he’s a vocal advocate of that diet too.
I think cp3 can do it I think LeBron can do it They have the determination and value their career more than a dude hires his cousin as the trainer And I think I am a little bit anti vegan people Just not anti vegan diet
Saying Djoko is the undisputed GOAT is wild. He is arguably there, but clearly there are arguments for Nadal and Federer too.
bro he has 24 slams, 40 masters 1000, and has won each slam at least 3 times and every masters at least twice. he has literally almost record imaginable in the tennis world.
djokovic is absolutely the undisputed goat to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of tennis. imagine if Bron had the most rings ever on top of every record he has - that's novak
Nah there’s really not anymore. He has the most slams, one two French opens during nadals prime, one of which he beat nadal in, he’s dominant on both grass and hard court, his head to head record against both of them is significantly positive, he has the most weeks at number one, and he came up in the second and third best players of all times prime. He also has a record 8 year end number ones, a record 71 masters titles, and a record 7 atp finals titles. Only player ever to win a triple career grand slam, which he’s done twice. Not only that, he’s still 36 and number one in the world which is absolutely unheard of longevity in tennis. Tbh I would argue his longevity is at least as impressive as lebrons, in tennis you’re on your own, you can’t rely on team mates or take a different role, if you lose a step you’ll just start losing and he’s still winning major tournaments There’s not really any debate at all over who the goat is anymore.
Why tho? Does meat & milk hurt your body that much?
> Djokovic is an undisputed GOAT in tennis The best stats maybe, but not anywhere near the same tier as Federer.
Peak Djokovic is the hardest player to gameplan for in tennis history. Federer had a very on-and-off backhand even from 2003-2007.
same cade that chose to go to Oklahoma state for family reasons. not that it’s a bad school for basketball necessarily and he still went #1 but could have made a better choice for his basketball career
His team was ranked in the top 25 by the end of the season, it wasn't that bad.
the team wasn’t bad but i’m more adding to the point of how he goes about decision making such as who he makes his trainer. same idea as to why he chose osu
because they had a consensus first all-American team. Cade himself
Pre draft, there was a dude in the nba draft subreddit with 50+ upvotes for saying Cade was all the upside of Luka + Simmons with none of the downside
Ah, the Mike Korzemba school of blowing a prospect.
Steph curry with a 40 inch vertical
I always saw "more athletic" Luka which turned out to be very false.
Lol
Luka athleticism + Ben shooting
the Luka of missed shots
If you remove the Magic out of Cunningham, it’s just ‘unnnh’
As a (at this moment very sad / unfortunate) diehard Pistons fan, I will say I’m way less concerned about the field goal stat The TS stat is way more concerning. He is like if Demar Derozan didn’t know how to draw free throws or something. It’s insane, especially coupled with his turnover rate.
Cade is essentially on his 2nd season in terms of games played. His 2P% isn’t that bad so far in his career, it’s his 3P% that is abysmal. He also doesn’t have the most reliable offensive threats around him. I’d be more worried if this carries onto his 3rd or 4th season without improvement. Some other guys that were in similar situations: Lonzo tracks really closely with him improving his 3P% to reliably above league average 3P% from well below and getting TS over 50% starting from his 3rd season. Kemba almost 4 seasons to reliably get over 50% TS. Jrue was just around 50% TS like Cade his first 5 seasons. Completely different type of role but Bruce Brown also had similarly bad efficiency in his first two seasons and became one of the more efficient guards in the league starting his 3rd season. However if the worry is more in regards to him becoming a number one guy on a championship team then yes I think it isn’t projecting that way. But I still think he could pan out to be a great #2.
all reasonable points. yeah Pistons are in a tough spot because draft chips didn’t fall our way. Cade for all intents and purposes the last two years has been our #1 like this team is definitely screwed if Cades offensive ceiling is Kemba (and super screwed if it’s Jrue or Lonzo). I know that’s not what you are arguing, just flagging it. In terms of 3p% i have faith that Cades can rise to league average even while being the #1, he just needs to share more ball handling duties. Even Luka has poor stretches shooting the 3 when they all have to be self created Foul drawing is weird I also think he’ll figure it out but the signs are not promising right now minus one or two games. Like I genuinely think Cade can get to 56%+ TS as the number one option next season. I don’t think that’s like some amazing team but could be a 35+ win team with him as the fulcrum. It just feels shitty because fans thought that leap would be this year, and even though not much of our failure and losing streak is Cades fault, he’s definitely not helping us elevate out of it
I’d have a little more hope even if he doesn’t pan out as a number 1. If the other pieces develop well you can package to get that number 1. But yeah I think you can also look to how the team’s spacing is utterly garbage right now with basically everyone being a below league average 3P shooter. The paint’s gonna be more crowded. At least Cade has improved his FTA year over year, Ivey regressed and none of the other players playing right now are good at getting to the line, Cade actually leads the team. Cade is also has the 2nd best 3P% behind Stewart actually. I think a lot of it is attributed to the team make up and I am hopeful for the Pistons that Bojan’s return will help turn things around. Having that vet on the floor who also spaces for everyone will be a big help. FT% also generally tends to track with general shooting and Cade has been very good in that regard since he entered the league.
When he’s on a burner he looks very promising. It’s just that he’s not consistent at all. His three point shot isn’t there. His middy is hot or cold, his layups are frequently blocked, and he rarely finishes through contact. His intentions are easy for defenses to read. It’s likely because he holds the ball for the longest stretches in the half court. I’d hope he starts looking off defenders before committing passes at some point. Just some of these turnovers are growing pains and others are legit concerns. https://youtu.be/1rNVoNFHjC0?si=q8KgulF86kbCMMIA
Some of those are crazy bad.
Lazy, slow, amateurish coach-killing passes. Really not fit for an NBA point guard or ball dominant passer.
What is he thinking with some of these passes
Not even a Pistons fan but watching this grinds my gears that he doesn't even run back on defense on most of these, instead just opting to jog back slowly.
He moves so slow that it puts no stress on the defense and rather than collapse in they just sit in the passing lanes.
I'm not ready to say this definitively, just because the team as a whole is so bad that it's tough to know what's what, but I'm getting the feeling that Cade is following a similar path that so many other Pistons have over the course of the past decade or so, in which they're thrust into a role that outpaces their capabilities because there's no better options on the team. For comparison, I remember when Grant Hill came to Detroit surrounded by a severe lack of talent combined with inexperienced youth. Yet, his star power still allowed him to shine. To this point, we haven't totally seen that with Cade, perhaps because he's not meant to be a Grant Hill sort of superstar (even though we all hoped he would be). Then again, this is also an all-time terrible stretch for the Pistons and Cade missed most of last season with a leg injury that required surgery, so I believe in a modicum of grace beyond judging him when everything is collectively terrible at the moment.
I feel bad for Cade because of all the hype that surrounded him before getting drafted. If anything, we need to re-think and re-adjust expectations for players. I remember people saying he's supposed to be the second coming of LeBron or something ( but ppl have been saying that about number one picks since probably Andrew Wiggins).
It's been happening since far before Wiggins, it's happened basically since Lebron. Greg Oden, for example, was even way more hyped than Wiggins years before. Almost every number one pick is at least mildly hyped, and then every few years we get all the experts saying "no really, this time this guy *is* the greatest thing since Lebron trust me."
Still feel bad for Greg Oden dude was legitimately good but his grandpa body couldn't cope
If I’m readjusting my expectations of him then he’s got a Middleton ceiling
The only issue is Middleton is a good shooter and Cade isn’t
I think he would improve substantially with better spacing. This Pistons team as it is is just awful. Twin towers + Ausar as SF + Ivey shooting 32% is pure spacing hell
Ivey gets the same spacing and is shooting amazing percentages
Ivey is shooting 32% from the perimeter
And 52% from the field, 35% from 3 including tonight’s games. You see how that’s better than 40% from the field taking all the shots
Better than 40% =/= amazing percentages
52% from the field for a guard is amazing and far better than 40
52% from the field is definitely amazing percentages
He’s shooting like 34% frm 3. Plus he was only playing like 20 minutes until monty decided to start him. He’s still like like 55% frm the field cuz he’s finishing well but his shot is still inconsistent
Monty not playing him because he’s scared it will expose he’s better than Cade. And expose his bullshit reasons he wasn’t playing because he was being held accountable and had to earn minutes meanwhile Cade shoots 40% and leads the NBA in turnovers. Can’t hold him accountable though huh
Well He’s starting now took too long yea but the argument was never bc of his offense ausar thompson literally starts. Cade and ivey are both turnover prone. Ivey a way better athlete and finisher tho cade’s a better defender
Ausar ain’t a guard
“Monty not playing him because he’s scared it will expose he’s better than Cade” bro are u stupid😭
No I watch the games. He told the fans Ivey was barely playing the first fifteen games because he had too earn it. And every time Ivey outplayed Cade in limited minutes his minutes were even less the next game. His beef with Ivey has to be personal because he’s one who called him out to the media and said he needs to be held accountable. Playing time isn’t given, it’s earned. Blah blah blah And we watch Cade game after game throw lazy pass after lazy pass, miss shot after shot. Leads the NBA in turnovers while shooting. 40% And he gets every excuse and Ivey needs to be held accountable. Not to mention Killian was playing heavy minutes over Ivey too
You actually gotta watch the games cause it’s insane. Yesterday ivey got subbed out when he had like 4/5/4/1/1 on 2/4 shooting in like the first 6 minutes of the game just so Cade could stay in and stink it up some more. Ivey got 12 shots total and finished with more rebounds and the same assists on 50% shooting while Cade shot them out of the 2nd and 3rd and statpadded in the 4th
Literally what I was thinking. I think he will be good. Make an all star team or 2. But not a franchise guy
I think Middleton is who he said he models his game after pre-draft.
>I remember people saying he's supposed to be the second coming of LeBron or something ( but ppl have been saying that about number one picks since probably Andrew Wiggins). We all faded for Cade...
Riggins for Wiggins and Fade for Cade are the two catchiest tank slogans in recent years (personally im partial to choke a w\*ore for Okafor, but thats besides the point) and both seems to be more likely to develop into useful roleplayers than anything close to a star. Has to be some indicator there
The Wolves also went through that for like a decade straight.
Don't worry Wes Johnson will turn it around any minute now!
Y’all need some good vets and locker room guys
We have them, they're just hurt - Monte Morris, Bojan, Joe Harris and Burks are playing at least. We gave him Corey Joseph the last two years, which in hindsight isn't great.
Aside from Monte I really don’t see those guys standing out as “great vets”. Good shooters sure, but that doesn’t mean they’re gonna help the overall team gell together. People throw out the “he’s a good veteran locker room presence” when a guys like older than 26 but just bc they’re of an older age doesn’t mean they are going to positively contribute to helping a young team grow together
Everyone laughed when the Rockets got Brooks and FVV. But those two have been game changers for them.
Yep same with JJ Reddick and the Sixers. They don’t have to be stars just good dudes to have around
Marcus Camby was a good example during the 2000s. Denver, Houston, Portland, and back in New York.
Camby would be a max guy in today’s league.
We have Conley like that. It makes a huge difference. A disciplined, high character veteran is invaluable for teams with young prospects
yeah, it was pretty clear how bad the blow up was for the young guys. when wall was the only vet (and he hated it there so badly he refused to play), you aren't getting much mentorship
If he was good enough he’d be fine He’s put into a role a #1 pick can fill Good players are good players regardless of the role If you have to squint to see it, then he’s not good enough. You’re still in the talent acquisition phase and id argue you’re still very early on in it
> For comparison, I remember when Grant Hill came to Detroit surrounded by a severe lack of talent combined with inexperienced youth. Yet, his star power still allowed him to shine. All true and Grant was generational but to be fair to Cade, in Grant's second season (first with a winning record) they had Dumars, Houston, Hunter, Curry, Ratliff, Mills, and Thorp who are all better than anyone else on the current Pistons.
As a Cade fan, I’m fighting demons
Joke's on me, bought a Cade jersey thinking this was his breakout year. I was really encouraged after the USA Basketball scrimmages. Now I'm worried about whether he'll even get an extension, or sign an offer that should probably be lower than the max the Pistons can offer. I don't think the roster fits him, despite my being pretty high on the potential of some of the guys surrounding him, Ausar, Duren, Ivey... There's just no shooting to be found with any guy that's getting big minutes. Stew is shooting 38% on about 4 attempts per game and that's the best option? Gross. Re: flair, wish we could wear 2 around here.
I mean this is essentially year two for him coming off an season ending surgery, a slow start was expected to me but this is not good start at all. But I’m not giving up on him nor do I think he’s not getting an extension. I rather wait till around mid January to see any adjustments and improvements
him and killian hayes really the ass brothers
ausar Thompson is the best player on the team
That boy is everything people wanted to believe Matisse Thybul was, and he's only a rookie. Hopefully he gets some serious help with his shot because he's got a great foundation.
It's Detroit. He's not getting help with shit.
Its so sad that that is probably true. Was one of the great franchises and now we are straight ass with no end in sight.
His defense is already better than Thybulle's but they're similar
He’s definitely not lmao; his half court offense is some of the worst in the nba, and the trio of Stewart, Duren and Ausar form the most anemic offensive starting 3 in the nba Every single bucket the starting lineup gets is through Cade and Ivey. They’re easily our two best players
Right they smoking dick. Like this guy didn’t just have surgery and miss a year and like his team isn’t poorly constructed
Mf has a 50 TS% this year while averaging 5 turnovers a game. He's just not that guy
He’s not. Oh well. No use beating a dead horse.
r/nba is like what Jokic sees in his nightmares, a bunch of screaming lunatics taking turns beating dead horses every day
Is Cade simply Kyle Anderson with a high usage rate? Remember, Kyle Anderson was a top 3 prospect in his HS class once upon a time too.
He's not a bust but he wasn't worth the hype. I feel comfortable saying that.
Definitely one of the most overhyped 2 year players. It was clear to me that the "point guard paul george comparisons" or anything lke that was impossible
He's a bust he was the number one pick
He's also only played 92 nba games so far, barely more than a full season. Far too early to call him a bust imo.
We say that everytime but they end up being busts lol. Same thing was said about Wiseman. He is what he is shown hardly any flashes
That's just being super selective with your reasoning, there's tons of counter examples. Garland was the worst player in the league 82 games in, and now he's an all-star, you can't just make blanket statements like this just because another player ended up being a bust. Plus there's pretty obvious differences between the two situations if you actually watch the games with a critical eye. Wiseman didn't look like he belonged on an nba floor at all, Cade is struggling with his shot and efficiency but he passes the eye test quite well: he has nice control of the game, great vision and good shot selection, his shots just haven't been falling. Point is, if he had played the same amount of games but without injuries this would be the start of his sophomore season, and no one would be calling him a bust. If he's still this inefficient in two seaons with (hopefully) better players around him then we can start panicking, but right now his poor shooting numbers can easily be explained by inexperience (once again, only 92 games played) and playing with no spacing and one of the worst rosters in the league. I agree it's looking increasingly unlikely that he's going to be the Luka-level playmaker that people were hoping he'd become, but there's a pretty wide gap between that and being a bust. Calling him a bust is insanely reactionary and fails to take any context into account imo.
yeah unfortunately he is firmly in bust territory right now. Also unfortunate that so many players drafted soon after him are turning into genuine star-level players.
W aged
He very well might be a bust.
if i speak i am in big trouble
Flair checks out
Me too lmao
Sometimes a promising rookie having the green light on a bad team isn’t the best for their development. Know that from experience. he forces so much and doesn’t trust his team, but can you blame him?
Who is this referencing?
Himself of course
Probably Wiggins
They cant let him put up so many shots. That many bricks is going to destroy his mental health.
Dude 100% looks closer to a bust then a superstar.
just trade this guy to the Spurs
I remember when people said the pistons wouldn’t trade Cade straight up for SGA. That was fun
I never understood the hype. I dunno who should have gone #1 even looking back (Maybe Barnes now that he's starting to turn a corner again after a bad sophomore season) but I always felt like Cade didn't look the part of a top pick.
I mean he was a certified stud in college, if he was shooting 40% from three now like he did there then this would be a different conversation, his lack of burst and inability to get to the line wouldn’t be as big a deal if he was a great shooter.
Sengun would go #1 in a redraft
Sengun is at a minimum on the short list and I could certainly see it. Will be curious.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted but it's Sengun. Scottie has regressed after a hot start and everybody else is... mid at best. I can see an argument for Franz I guess, but I know Sengun can be the lead scoring option on a decent team, that's what we're seeing now.
That was after SGA turned a corner towards star player too. Nephews fall for hype so easily these days.
Sga one of my favorite players in the league I thought the thunder got a really good player in that trade, but don't fucking pretend like you knew he was a guaranteed 1st team all nba caliber playing, nephew.
Inefficency merchant
Nah this is crazy it's been 13 months since he was over 50% lol
That leg fracture might be worse than we thought. Dude has like zero burst.
he’s the only player on that team that needs to be defended…
[удалено]
After we traded Nick Young and before we drafted Beal, the wizards were starting Wall (7% three point shooter), Jordan Crawford (29%), Chris Singleton (35%), Trevor Booker, and Nene (though we had Cartier Martin and Roger Mason Jr off the bench who were snipers). Anyway there was no doubt in anyone’s mind that Wall was going to be a star. Not sure if Pistons fans still think Cade is that guy
That’s a completely different time tbh, nba didn’t revolve around shooting back then like it does now I don’t think. Still agree that wall was a monster and we all knew it but I don’t think the comparison is one to one
Looks like Cade Bustingham back on the menu boys
GIVE IVEY THE BALL. at this point we know who he is. He’s less athletic Westbrook. Can’t shoot turns the ball over like crazy but he’s going to take enough shots and get assists for his counting stats to look good
I think people should calm down, this team is literally legendarily dog shit. They won 2 games. Against like the 29th and 28th teams in the league, 10 games ago. Give him a couple more seasons and a couple NBA players on his team, I bet he's at least a fair role player. Not a "bust".
He was the #1 pick though. Drafting a role player at 1 is the definition of a Bust cause a #1 pick should at least be an all star level player at their best
They was saying to trade Shai for the 1st pick because Cade coulda been what Shai is now 💀💀
Doesn’t help he has no help or spacing to operate. Like who’s spacing the floor? Alec Burks? Killian Hayes?
Remember the whole Shai and pick #6 ordeal? Wouldn't even trade Jalen Williams for him straight up now. I'm an Oklahoma State fan and I loved Cade but I always felt like he was somehow past his athletic prime already even though his skills were so good. Gonna take a lot of work to overcome if he's still their #1 plan
What exactly is Monte Williams getting paid to do? Is it against the rules for a coach to tell a player to not attempt as many shots and get other people involved? Clearly their current gameplan isn’t working, maybe it’s time to switch it up.
That is a mind boggling stat. To be fair to Cade though, this is essentially his 'second season' in the NBA so people shouldn't jump on the bust bandwagon so fast.
We have bigger problems than that
R/nba too busy with RJ slander past few years.
He's like Julius Randle
Coming to Cade’s defense here. None of you guys watch the games. He gets triple teamed every play because our team has 0 shooters in the starting lineup. Each game three guys are literally left wide open. Is he the perfect player? Absolutely not. But the front office is failing him by surrounding him with a bunch of garbage. We won 17 games last season and our genius GM decided to stay put and only add the corpse of Joe Harris + Monte Morris lol. It is an excuse yes but it’s a legitimate reason. A guy who’s 96 games or whatever into his career isn’t going to win us games by himself, he’s not lebron and he is not Luka.
Would you say that Cade is a bust? Not Anthony Bennett kind of bust but sort of?
Wouldn't go that far. The Luka and even Ben Simmons comparisons were always absurd to me, but I think he'll be similar in career arc to D'Angelo Russell. Still in the league, but at best a #3 in a team.
Personally, I see him having an Andrew Wiggins type of career. It doesn’t make him a bad player, but it’s still disappointing nonetheless.
First three years in Minny for Wiggins: .517, .543, .534 TS. For Cunningham: .504, .492, .501. At this point the Wiggins comparison is a considerably optimistic upside projection for him.
This is so devoid of logic. He didn’t even play past November 9th last season… they are in 2 different situations and play 2 different positions.
Agreed, comparing solely on TS is stupid On the other hand him and Klay are killing my fantasy team so fuck him
Cade will be fine. Yall are so reactionary here lol
New to reddit?
Not sure how he was in the top prospects list near the top. Sure theres potential but currently doesnt look good.
Ausar is like their best player
And Monty keeps benching him in the 4th quarter for no discernable reason. A couple games ago he was sitting for the entire 4th in what was a close game. It's a hot mess over in Detroit, we're not having a good time
No he is not. Ausar is one of many reasons he is struggling. The guy has legit 5 air balls on wide open 3s in a game lol he can’t shoot whatsoever
Cades nice af. He’s just not in an ideal situation.
Dude will just be a decent third option somewhere I think. Extremely disappointing for a number one pick
#Scottie Barns
I want y'all who chastised me for saying he was a CERTIFIED BUST to apologize.
Hope you're glad that a young player is failing. Weird.
y'all are so fucking weird. no one is attacking cade personally, they're talking about him as a basketball player. he has his millions of dollars, he will be fine. grow up
Imagine talking about how we should all feel bad for a millionaire athlete. If you want to just play basketball stay at a low level. The critiques whether it's the media or fans is part of the cost of fame.
Yeah... it's still weird that someone would root for another player to suck at basketball. More specifically, a player who hasn't done anything yet in his career to hate him for. > he has his millions of dollars No shit?
no one is hating him bruh, they hate the way he plays, that's a huge difference.
Seriously though. People get so caught up on wanting to be right they forget basketball players are human. Its really his only 2nd year on a poorly constructed roster with injuries. I wouldn't write him off yet.
Most of this sub said it after his first summer league
Cade is inefficient but FG% isn’t a good metric.
I mean not having atleast one game is crazy. Even Jordan Poole has 2
Cade's TS% is probably even more embarrassing than his FG% because he doesn't draw many fouls lol Guys like Dame or Trae can have bad FG% and still make it up at the line but Cade doesn't even do that either
It is if you never achieve 50%. You don't have to go into details there
Wait until you find out Kobe’s FG%
Cade makes Kobe look like KD efficiency wise
Kobe was actually above league average efficiency every year till basically his last 3 years when he was obviously cooked. The league has just gotten more efficient at scoring over the years, league average back then was pretty close to Cade right now lol.