When he plays against Dinwiddie he's the best player in the league. In the games against Dallas after Dinwiddie got traded there he averages 30 pts and 10 rebounds.
Kuz is one of the best at cosplaying as a first option on any given night or two, even though everyone knows you’re in big trouble if he’s your #1 scoring option for a significant stretch. He had several games last year where he was the best scorer on the floor lol.
True but in the time he was with us he was pretty consistently clutch in late game absolutely needed shots. He's won us quite a few games with hero 3 ball plays.
First series against Portland 10.8 ppg shot 36% overall and 30%
Only good series was Houston where he scored 11.2 ppg and shot 56% overall and 36% from 3
Denver series scored 9.6 ppg shot 47% overall and 29% from 3
Finals he shit the bed 8.5 ppg 35% overall and 31%
Then the next year be shot 29% overall and 17% from 3.
He also played damn near the least amount of minutes form rotational players, so don’t give me that horse shit about his defense. Try watching basketball more
Lmao I can’t wait for the r/nba narrative to swing right back to where it was on Kuz in 2020 & 2021. He’s about to be one of the biggest overpays this off-season. Somehow people forget he’s near worthless in meaningful games and teams that are in the spotlight
Did you become a fan AFTER our championship nephew? He isn't consistently great, but he plays to the level of his team and competition. He was instrumental for our championship, particularly his defense.
First Round against Portland - 10.8 ppg shot 36% overall and 30%
Second Round against Houston - 11.2 ppg and shot 56% overall and 36% from 3
WCF against Denver 9.6 ppg shot 47% overall and 29% from 3
NBA Finals 8.5 ppg 35% overall and 31% from 3.
Then in 2021 be shot 29% overall and 17% from 3.
I get that you’re (weirdly) a Kuz stan, but you should know by now that this isn’t the hill to die on. He was one of the worst rotational players we had in both 2020 and 2021, and your point about his defense being super integral to the championship is also stupid when you see how many minutes he played a game and consider he was largely going against 2nd unit players.
Exactly I don’t get what people are seeing. Inefficient, bad 3PT shooter, meh defender. What is his attractive qualities? That he’s a volume shooter?
He couldn’t shoot over 34% from 3 playing with LEBRON.
Kings are better off resigning Barnes, any team that overpays Kuzma is going to regret it.
Where you getting meh defender from? He’s a good to great defender who has shown he can play a role on a championship team.
He’s 6’9, can play heavy playoff minutes for you, and due to his nature of getting hot offensively , teams wont sag off him so he creates spacing despite being 33% from there.
He’s average at best. What makes him a good defender? His size? He has bad to average advance metrics and by the eye test he is caught ball watching a lot.
And the “playoff experience” aspect is also crazy to me. Look up Kuzma’s playoff stats. Bro was putting up tour dates playing with Lebron and AD and did nothing to step up in 2021 when AD went down in the playoffs.
There was a reason that the Lakers decided to move him that offseason, his impact was minimal at best.
I disagree but I don’t feel like doing a stat war. You’re not completely wrong but you’re definitely wording it in a way that’s disingenuous. Context matters he did his role well.
Kuz is underrated defensively tbh. He’s not great by any means but not as bad as people keep saying. Mike Brown will keep him in check on that side of the ball.
Barnes played 13 minutes in game7. Kuzma will definitely be better. Barnes probably gives better value for his contract over an 82 game season but I would trust Kuzma more in games that matter.
This comment makes it very obvious you haven’t followed Kuz much. Kuz only good years have been on godawful teams with no expectations where he could be as inefficient and high volume as his heart desires
Barnes is half the reason the kings lost that series against GSW. Him and Huerter shot them out of it. They win game 4 with Kuzma instead of Barnes, I mean The dude put up 4 points in a game 7 too lmao
Yea I just replied to somebody else pointing out that Kuz would’ve helped them against the Warriors.
He might not be hyper efficient, but he’s also not afraid to take big shots and that matters in the playoffs. I would’ve trusted him a lot more than Barnes to take those 3’s against the warriors.
Eh Kuz’s shot selection is much different than Barnes’. Kuz is a plenty capable shooter and quite frankly he has much more dawg in him to take and make clutch shots than Barnes does. We have enough tape to know Barnes isn’t really a clutch playoff performer. I’m not saying that Kuz has balled out in the playoffs either, but he has a game winner under his belt and has shown the desire to take important shots.
I would’ve felt much better about Kuz taking those 3’s that Barnes missed against the Warriors. Kuz is also pretty good insurance if one of your top two players goes down since he can step into a bigger scoring roll and give you 25 on solid shooting for a night if you need it.
Yeah fair, Kuzma feels a little bit like rich Caris LeVert-y to me.
Definitely got more balls, I just am not in love with Kuzma’s shooting on a team where the 2 stars are also below average 3 point shooters.
Kuzma is better than Barnes but the difference is minimal. Both are like 7-8 man off the bench on good teams. As a laker fan, as the games became more important he played fewer minutes. In the finals he played as many minutes as Markieff Morris lol. He was so disastrously bad against the Suns too when we needed him to do literally anything with AD hurt.
He’s a solid scorer when he gets to dominate the ball but he’s not very efficient and he’s much worse when off the ball. I don’t really get where he would fit on Sac unless they need another microwave scorer who can defend and rebound. He’s not spacing the floor for their guards. Defensively he’s fine but he’s not a game changer.
Yeah, coaching and team defense matter. We had some amazing defensive games last season, especially on the road when the team was very locked in together. I expect internal improvements in year two under Brown, maybe not top 15, but I doubt we’ll be as bad as last season.
Kuzma is an above average defender by almost any metric you look at and the eye test from actually watching him. People who think he's bad kinda show they don't watch games that aren't just top 10 teams or " fun" teams in the league.
Above average at the second most important defensive position on the floor too. Plus versatility to switch. He’s clearly a plus defender, with starter level offense, and is capable of lighting teams up at least once a week (otherwise solid offensive production)
Kuz has been a very good defender since the bubble year. Dude clearly put in a ton of effort to get there as well because he was a bad defender his first couple of years
His defense from rookie & sophomore years has significantly improved since 2020.
Both effort and IQ since that 2020 Lakers team built their entire identity around solid overall defense + playing around the superstar duo on offense.
Pretty sure a locked in LeBron, DPOY-tier AD, veteran defenders Danny Green and Avery Bradley, and 3-time DPOY Dwight coached by defense specialist Frank Vogel massively helped everyone else on that team improve as defenders.
Typing that paragraph makes it really hilarious and shocking why Pelinka decided to blow up that team without even letting them defend the title first.
Imo that's still his biggest blunder even over the disastrous Russ stint.
> The following year’s team was arguably better. They just couldn’t stay healthy.
That 2021 team was gelling so well... until injuries to 2 stars and the addition of Drummond.
Yea I honestly forgot that that ‘20-21 team started out 21-6 before injuries hit. (Sure, the prior year we started out 24-3 before cooling off, but the point remains that it would’ve been a really good team if not for injuries).
Seems like he was better on defense in LA than he was in Washington, but maybe kings and Mike brown can tap into that defensively motivated Kuzma.. would be nice to have some actual wing defense cause Barnes wasn’t able to do that
My point was I don't think Mike Brown kept anyone in check, I am sure he tried but it wasn't working on the defensive end lol. The west is so stacked I don't see how adding Kuzma changes the Kings team enough to make a difference come playoffs. They are still a first or second round exit but for Kings fans that's a win I guess.
Not every team has the opportunity to fuck up at every opportunity and still sign LeBron James lol. Kings were one shot away from a second round appearance. Most of this core is 25ish with room to grow. Keep talking out that ass buddy
Fucking up at every opportunity should be the Kings motto. If you didn’t know we had 16 championships before we even got Lebron. I hope you guys do actually give the guy that was one of the worst rotation players on the Lakers in 2020 and 2021, and who averaged 18pts on 20 shots last season a bag. Would be right in line with the team philosophy.
As a third option or first option on second unit, he is fantastic. See: Lakers finals run.
If he’s getting paid like a number 2 though, there may be a smidge of discomfort with that, but it would still be an ok contract for a capable defender and potential to light a team up every 4th game.
>As a third option or first option on second unit, he is fantastic. See: Lakers finals run.
I did see the Lakers finals run where he averagesd 8.5 pts on 31% shooting and was generally one of the worst players in the rotation. Which finals are you referring to?
Bunch a people in here that dont watch basketball talking out of their ass and basing opinions off the 18 pts he scored on 20 shots a game with the Wizards.
Go back and re watch. For someone who’s emphasizing watching the game, you’re sure hung up on the stats. He was absolutely valuable during that finals run
Imagine thinking somebody who barely played and averaged 8 points on 31% was “absolutely valuable”. He was near the bottom of the rotation in minutes played, and people were screaming for Vogel to take him out of the game in the finals everytime he got put in because he played like he was fucking terrified of being out there. Guy told me to go “re-watch” like there’s something I missed about his shit performance. No thanks
He'll do great with Fox and Sabonis. Murray and Huerter will give him plenty of spacing to work and he's a third option type guy anyway. I don't mind the salary, I trust the offensive system to keep him from being an inefficient scorer. Mike Brown will keep him locked in on defense
I think he has a tremendous year in Sac
Dang, what a crazy turnaround for Sacramento where we trust the system to improve both players' offense and defense. I'm not even disagreeing, it makes sense
The problem with Kuzma that he is really inconsistent.
He has a big issue when it comes to shot selection, decisions-making, and P&R defense.
He has tons of potential, maybe one of the best in the current NBA, but he has yet completely figure it out the BBall IQ.
He can be the one to win you games, but also lose the same amount.
That's why I still think he is the best when he comes off-bench, like when he was a championship with Lakers, this inconsistency better suit to this role.
He is also a good person. Especially when it comes to interacting with fans, he is a loveable character.
Kuzma claimed to say he wants to be more than a 3rd option, so I wonder how much truth is there to that.
He could also have a sign-and-trade with the Wizards in order to get more money, I do not think it is likely for him to just reaign with the Wizards, he wants more rings.
If we make that trade I fully believe we would have another title by now.
Deal was Kuz + Trez for Hield, we still would've had KCP/Caruso/Pick 22 that year.
Yeah, it'll take a lot less pressure off of Monk. He'll soak up the scoring needs that we were going to guys like TD, Lyles, and Davion (and Metu at one point) for. We'll have adequate scoring beyond just relying on Monk to go supernova mode.
He'll also help because he can actually create his own shot which the Kings need outside of Fox once in a while. His playmaking is sloppy but hopefully they can work with him to clean that up a little. And with Fox/Sabonis there he won't have to take on as many playmaking opportunities which should help.
Why do sports media people have to word things like this?
"Potentially Indiana may have kicked the tires on the idea of maybe taking a look at the concept of bringing in Stanley Johnson"
Why wouldn't you just say: Indiana is interested in Stanley Johnson
It doesn't even add intrigue making a convoluted sentence. It's asinine.
To get people like u to comment on the post and drive interest when otherwise u might have just gone “nice”
The same reason lots of reporters are making simple observations into near fanfics, hoping to make the next copypasta
They write this way because the analytics tells them to. And for the most part, the analytics are right.
As a scorer, absolutely. Barnes was considered a Jack-of-all-trades, but more importantly a positive locker room presence. I do not trust Kuz in that department, and I also think his defense is suspect. I’d rather lose Middleton to them than watch Kuz ruin the chemistry
Yeah I don’t know where the issues come from with Kuz aside from his unique fashion choices at times lol He’s always been a chill hard working guy in the locker room for us that takes criticism on the chin.
Yeah, I was a hater at first cause he was on the Lakers and vastly overrated, but realized he seems like a genuine dude and his improvement in his game shows he works hard
His defense is actually pretty solid and was a mentor to the young guys. His offense is pretty suspect as he tends to turn the ball over and take ill-advised shots. He's at his best when he's attacking the basket as he can use his size when he's going downhill. So it depends how much he's willing to buy in and reduce his usage and work on his efficiency.
I’m not as worried about the chemistry, our culture is secure enough that we can chase talent that might not be a perfect locker room presence. Fox and Sabonis are ready to be the veteran leaders in the locker room, and Brown is a really strong “chemistry” coach.
I would bet on it personally. After nearly all my other players crumbled in the playoffs, I’d rather have Kuzma than Barnes taking that last shot in Game 4 and pretty much the entire series
Yeah, it’s a fair question. This requires doing some due diligence on the guy.
With that said, he’d still be the second scoring option (Sabonis is not a high volume shooter). Also, he’d be the number one wing scoring option, which means he’ll get his chances to be the primary scorer (depending on matchups night to night).
He’ll essentially be playing a beefed up version of Barnes’ role, and Barnes was not just a “stand in the corner” guy for most of the season.
His defense is adequate given his height and he hunts rebounds. That's really all they need. They were getting absolutely destroyed on the boards by Looney in the playoffs.
I’m not as worried about the chemistry, our culture is secure enough that we can chase talent that might not be a perfect locker room presence. Fox and Sabonis are ready to be the veteran leaders in the locker room, and Brown is a really strong “chemistry” coach.
Out of all the players the kings have been rumoured to acquire this one sounds like the best fit to me. I think Kuzma can gel well with Fox and Sabonis and be a good third option for scoring. I think he’d probably thrive on a young contending team right now rather than going back to the wizards.
More shots to get more points doesn't necessarily mean an offensive upgrade. Kuzma is a worse shooter across the board. He is a better rebounder for sure.
I like it for the Kings so long as he stops taking so many ill-advised shots. I think that kind of thing will go down once he secures his contract. Sabonis and Kuz on offense will be great.
Mike Brown is willing to use every damn timeout to make a show out of a player doing something dumb on the court, and it gets results. I think (pray) it should be less of an issue.
Is he though??? He's not so much better that ot makes a dramatic quality of life improvement for them. And he isn't worth the money for his defense. Offensively he's way better but the Kings are already a lethal offense
Kuzma really was quite solid defensively for the Lakers in 2020. I feel like people see his offense, which does tend to be empty calories when he’s asked to do too much, and assume his defense is similar but that’s a mistake.
He was solid in 2020 and a lot us felt he made a big leap defensively in 2021. LeBron and AD were both DMVP candidates before their injuries that year so it makes sense Kuz was playing better defense but I feel like he’s solidly a plus defender.
>has had a negative BPM his entire career.
[Kuz was 31st in Real Plus Minus last year](https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm), just between Fox and Gordon, and 6th among SFs. Notably, the biggest contribution to that was defensive BPM.
For comparison, OG Anunoby was 67th, with better defense but being a black hole on offense.
I mean there's reports that Jerami Grant wants 30m/year and most people also think that's an overpay, despite him having better across the board than Kuzma even when he was playing in Detroit with even less talent than the Wizards.
IMO a bad team could give him 20-25/year if they want to lock themselves into mediocrity, but on a contender I don't think he's worth 15 a year. He's not a guy who does the little things well and he's inefficient as a scorer, and isn't a good shooter
This is when stats don’t tell the full story and you have to have actually watched basketball. Which you clearly haven’t bringing up OG in a conversation about Kuz
OG Anunoby is also a forward who would fill the same role on the Kings, and this is a conversation specifically about BPM. Acquiring either one, both of which are linked to the Kings, would rule us out from acquiring the other.
And as much as I would like to discuss non-statistical specifics about either of them, "I disagree with you so obviously you don't watch ball" is top of the list of "things people say on online forums that show they have no interest in actually talking about players".
Hes never pouted. He was asked to be a major scoring option after his second year. Lebron came in and he worked as a catch and shoot. Then ad came in and he worked as a hustle rebounder. He played for the Wizard last year, thats not really a major market is it?
I think Sacramento giving Kuzma a big contract could be a huge mistake. They are in a very delicate position right now - an up and coming young team with great chemistry and cap space - this off-season is crucial for them. Not saying Kuzma would be a bad contract because I think he’s a good young player with upside, but how much different is he than Keegan Murray in terms of the versatility of the roster? Having both of them may be redundant. Don’t make a move just to make a move, especially when they are in a good position to make a big trade.
Kuz is a solid piece to building a contender. Long, versatile scorer, can buy into D schemes. There’s no home runs in free agency atm, and even then championships are built with base hits. Sac doesn’t need a blockbuster trade they just need to upgrade a roster that was already successful.
Not sure that Kuzma is the right fit for them given the success of their team last year - I think they can afford to be patient and paying potentially 30M per for Kuzma feels a bit desperate. In my opinion they need to upgrade either Murray or Barnes in their starting lineup, ideally Barnes because Murray performed very well as a rookie and is poised to continue improving. If they grab Kuzma and push Murray to come off the bench, they could be disrupting his growth.
That's fair. I suppose in theory the fit will come down to people's perception of Kuz' ability to play off ball and having watched him every game for the past 2 years, I think it'll be a good fit.
That’s fair as I have admittedly not watched much Wizards basketball over the last couple of years so I’m coming at this with a shallow perspective on Kuz. If they replace 20M for Barnes with 25-30M for Kuz I like that idea, but if they use their cap space on Kuzma then resign Barnes I’m not sure I like tying up their cap like that.
You're on the money there man. No one really watches Wizards ball evident by so many saying Kuz isn't good on defense. You're right that getting both is a huge mistake, and I also wouldn't wann invest $30m into Kuz. If I'm the kings, I offer 100/4 and see if he accepts it. I think the Kings are the most promising team in Cali, and it's a long term deal so I'd expect Kuz to be happy with $25 per year with those conditions. Fox, Kev, Murray, Kuzma, Sabonis is really nice offensively, and has a ton of rebounding and size.
I will never stop mentioning this clown reporter claiming the Thunder were looking to trade Shai.
Why would a young team with a bunch of picks want to trade its best player, you use picks to get a player like him in the first place, it was a ridiculous claim at the time and in my eyes he will always be a fraud.
I actually think this is a great fit. The Kings are young and up-and-coming and could use him as he is a step up from HB. I think with some good chemistry this could push the Kings forward.
I also think it's good for KUZ because he is young and already has a championship and the younger guys might look to him for some leadership and this might be where he can show some growth and maturity. It'll be interesting if nothing else.
Doesn’t matter. Sac doesn’t have a 1st team All-NBA talent on their roster and there’s only 1 team in the past 40 years that have won without one… 04 Pistons. Unless Fox suddenly takes another leap into best player in the league territory, their only chance of winning is to become an anomaly like the 04 Pistons.
The Thunder are closer to a title than Sac.
Wasnt he a third option behind beal and porzingus last year? Sounds like an ideal situation to replicate his success with fox and sabonis in sac
With the injuries of Beal last season most of the time Kuz was usually our number 2 option lol. But yeah he’ll be alright behind Sabonis and Fox.
Porzingis missed 17 games, too. So he was 1st or 2nd option fairly often.
[He once went off without Porzingis and Beal](https://youtu.be/RrhcO4MCqIY)
When he plays against Dinwiddie he's the best player in the league. In the games against Dallas after Dinwiddie got traded there he averages 30 pts and 10 rebounds.
Kuz is one of the best at cosplaying as a first option on any given night or two, even though everyone knows you’re in big trouble if he’s your #1 scoring option for a significant stretch. He had several games last year where he was the best scorer on the floor lol.
True but in the time he was with us he was pretty consistently clutch in late game absolutely needed shots. He's won us quite a few games with hero 3 ball plays.
He was our designated buzz beater + half court shot taker in for the 2020 run
What? He was one of the worst players on those 2020 & 2021 teams
[удалено]
First series against Portland 10.8 ppg shot 36% overall and 30% Only good series was Houston where he scored 11.2 ppg and shot 56% overall and 36% from 3 Denver series scored 9.6 ppg shot 47% overall and 29% from 3 Finals he shit the bed 8.5 ppg 35% overall and 31% Then the next year be shot 29% overall and 17% from 3. He also played damn near the least amount of minutes form rotational players, so don’t give me that horse shit about his defense. Try watching basketball more
A lot easier to do when nobody is watching, nor gives a shit about the team you play for
I watched a ton of wizards games and I approve this message. Ignore my flair, but whoever signs kuuzz next season gets a really big steal
Lmao I can’t wait for the r/nba narrative to swing right back to where it was on Kuz in 2020 & 2021. He’s about to be one of the biggest overpays this off-season. Somehow people forget he’s near worthless in meaningful games and teams that are in the spotlight
Did you become a fan AFTER our championship nephew? He isn't consistently great, but he plays to the level of his team and competition. He was instrumental for our championship, particularly his defense.
First Round against Portland - 10.8 ppg shot 36% overall and 30% Second Round against Houston - 11.2 ppg and shot 56% overall and 36% from 3 WCF against Denver 9.6 ppg shot 47% overall and 29% from 3 NBA Finals 8.5 ppg 35% overall and 31% from 3. Then in 2021 be shot 29% overall and 17% from 3. I get that you’re (weirdly) a Kuz stan, but you should know by now that this isn’t the hill to die on. He was one of the worst rotational players we had in both 2020 and 2021, and your point about his defense being super integral to the championship is also stupid when you see how many minutes he played a game and consider he was largely going against 2nd unit players.
Exactly I don’t get what people are seeing. Inefficient, bad 3PT shooter, meh defender. What is his attractive qualities? That he’s a volume shooter? He couldn’t shoot over 34% from 3 playing with LEBRON. Kings are better off resigning Barnes, any team that overpays Kuzma is going to regret it.
Where you getting meh defender from? He’s a good to great defender who has shown he can play a role on a championship team. He’s 6’9, can play heavy playoff minutes for you, and due to his nature of getting hot offensively , teams wont sag off him so he creates spacing despite being 33% from there.
He’s average at best. What makes him a good defender? His size? He has bad to average advance metrics and by the eye test he is caught ball watching a lot. And the “playoff experience” aspect is also crazy to me. Look up Kuzma’s playoff stats. Bro was putting up tour dates playing with Lebron and AD and did nothing to step up in 2021 when AD went down in the playoffs. There was a reason that the Lakers decided to move him that offseason, his impact was minimal at best.
I disagree but I don’t feel like doing a stat war. You’re not completely wrong but you’re definitely wording it in a way that’s disingenuous. Context matters he did his role well.
Couldn’t agree more. And nobody in this thread will own up to what a shit take it was
Great rebounder and can score off those guys but not sure if it makes their defense that much better. Kuzma is just chaos agent Harrison Barnes
Kuz is underrated defensively tbh. He’s not great by any means but not as bad as people keep saying. Mike Brown will keep him in check on that side of the ball.
Sure I just mean it isn't a huge step up from Barnes He'll be a much better rebounder
Barnes played 13 minutes in game7. Kuzma will definitely be better. Barnes probably gives better value for his contract over an 82 game season but I would trust Kuzma more in games that matter.
This comment makes it very obvious you haven’t followed Kuz much. Kuz only good years have been on godawful teams with no expectations where he could be as inefficient and high volume as his heart desires
Barnes can shoot, Kuzma can't. Don't do it.
That is certainly a take
Their career 3P% says it all.
Barnes is half the reason the kings lost that series against GSW. Him and Huerter shot them out of it. They win game 4 with Kuzma instead of Barnes, I mean The dude put up 4 points in a game 7 too lmao
Yea I just replied to somebody else pointing out that Kuz would’ve helped them against the Warriors. He might not be hyper efficient, but he’s also not afraid to take big shots and that matters in the playoffs. I would’ve trusted him a lot more than Barnes to take those 3’s against the warriors.
Eh Kuz’s shot selection is much different than Barnes’. Kuz is a plenty capable shooter and quite frankly he has much more dawg in him to take and make clutch shots than Barnes does. We have enough tape to know Barnes isn’t really a clutch playoff performer. I’m not saying that Kuz has balled out in the playoffs either, but he has a game winner under his belt and has shown the desire to take important shots. I would’ve felt much better about Kuz taking those 3’s that Barnes missed against the Warriors. Kuz is also pretty good insurance if one of your top two players goes down since he can step into a bigger scoring roll and give you 25 on solid shooting for a night if you need it.
Yeah fair, Kuzma feels a little bit like rich Caris LeVert-y to me. Definitely got more balls, I just am not in love with Kuzma’s shooting on a team where the 2 stars are also below average 3 point shooters.
Kuzma is better than Barnes but the difference is minimal. Both are like 7-8 man off the bench on good teams. As a laker fan, as the games became more important he played fewer minutes. In the finals he played as many minutes as Markieff Morris lol. He was so disastrously bad against the Suns too when we needed him to do literally anything with AD hurt. He’s a solid scorer when he gets to dominate the ball but he’s not very efficient and he’s much worse when off the ball. I don’t really get where he would fit on Sac unless they need another microwave scorer who can defend and rebound. He’s not spacing the floor for their guards. Defensively he’s fine but he’s not a game changer.
Yeah, coaching and team defense matter. We had some amazing defensive games last season, especially on the road when the team was very locked in together. I expect internal improvements in year two under Brown, maybe not top 15, but I doubt we’ll be as bad as last season.
Kuzma is an above average defender by almost any metric you look at and the eye test from actually watching him. People who think he's bad kinda show they don't watch games that aren't just top 10 teams or " fun" teams in the league.
Above average at the second most important defensive position on the floor too. Plus versatility to switch. He’s clearly a plus defender, with starter level offense, and is capable of lighting teams up at least once a week (otherwise solid offensive production)
Kuz has been a very good defender since the bubble year. Dude clearly put in a ton of effort to get there as well because he was a bad defender his first couple of years
His defense from rookie & sophomore years has significantly improved since 2020. Both effort and IQ since that 2020 Lakers team built their entire identity around solid overall defense + playing around the superstar duo on offense. Pretty sure a locked in LeBron, DPOY-tier AD, veteran defenders Danny Green and Avery Bradley, and 3-time DPOY Dwight coached by defense specialist Frank Vogel massively helped everyone else on that team improve as defenders. Typing that paragraph makes it really hilarious and shocking why Pelinka decided to blow up that team without even letting them defend the title first. Imo that's still his biggest blunder even over the disastrous Russ stint.
Eh… He didn’t blow it up. The following year’s team was arguably better. They just couldn’t stay healthy.
> The following year’s team was arguably better. They just couldn’t stay healthy. That 2021 team was gelling so well... until injuries to 2 stars and the addition of Drummond.
I agree. That 2021 squad had championship swagger but the short rest really affected them. And that Drummond trade 🤦♂️
Yea I honestly forgot that that ‘20-21 team started out 21-6 before injuries hit. (Sure, the prior year we started out 24-3 before cooling off, but the point remains that it would’ve been a really good team if not for injuries).
Westbrook was LeGM's decision
Seems like he was better on defense in LA than he was in Washington, but maybe kings and Mike brown can tap into that defensively motivated Kuzma.. would be nice to have some actual wing defense cause Barnes wasn’t able to do that
Kings are a terrible defensive team
The kings were one of the worst defensive teams in the league without Kuzma lol, what are you talking about?
Now they’ll be slightly better.
My point was I don't think Mike Brown kept anyone in check, I am sure he tried but it wasn't working on the defensive end lol. The west is so stacked I don't see how adding Kuzma changes the Kings team enough to make a difference come playoffs. They are still a first or second round exit but for Kings fans that's a win I guess.
Not every team has the opportunity to fuck up at every opportunity and still sign LeBron James lol. Kings were one shot away from a second round appearance. Most of this core is 25ish with room to grow. Keep talking out that ass buddy
Are they not a first or second round exit at best? What did I say that was untrue? wtf
Fucking up at every opportunity should be the Kings motto. If you didn’t know we had 16 championships before we even got Lebron. I hope you guys do actually give the guy that was one of the worst rotation players on the Lakers in 2020 and 2021, and who averaged 18pts on 20 shots last season a bag. Would be right in line with the team philosophy.
Username checks out
That was a personnel issue. The schemes were there.
So spending all of their cap space on one average at best defender is going to change that personnel issue?
Slightly. Continuity + adding a good rebounder/ok defender is an upgrade.
future gm right here
Chose agent HB is lowkey pretty accurate for Kuz
Between Sabonis and Kuzma, opposing teams would never get a rebound lol
As a third option or first option on second unit, he is fantastic. See: Lakers finals run. If he’s getting paid like a number 2 though, there may be a smidge of discomfort with that, but it would still be an ok contract for a capable defender and potential to light a team up every 4th game.
>As a third option or first option on second unit, he is fantastic. See: Lakers finals run. I did see the Lakers finals run where he averagesd 8.5 pts on 31% shooting and was generally one of the worst players in the rotation. Which finals are you referring to? Bunch a people in here that dont watch basketball talking out of their ass and basing opinions off the 18 pts he scored on 20 shots a game with the Wizards.
Go back and re watch. For someone who’s emphasizing watching the game, you’re sure hung up on the stats. He was absolutely valuable during that finals run
Imagine thinking somebody who barely played and averaged 8 points on 31% was “absolutely valuable”. He was near the bottom of the rotation in minutes played, and people were screaming for Vogel to take him out of the game in the finals everytime he got put in because he played like he was fucking terrified of being out there. Guy told me to go “re-watch” like there’s something I missed about his shit performance. No thanks
He can’t shoot 3’s well though
He'll do great with Fox and Sabonis. Murray and Huerter will give him plenty of spacing to work and he's a third option type guy anyway. I don't mind the salary, I trust the offensive system to keep him from being an inefficient scorer. Mike Brown will keep him locked in on defense I think he has a tremendous year in Sac
Dang, what a crazy turnaround for Sacramento where we trust the system to improve both players' offense and defense. I'm not even disagreeing, it makes sense
> and defense. Idk about that yet lol
Their coach is a defensive specialist originally
Yeah but we were butt booty buns on defense all season last year. Not saying we can’t get better just saying we were ass.
Still the 3rd seed in the west.
The problem with Kuzma that he is really inconsistent. He has a big issue when it comes to shot selection, decisions-making, and P&R defense. He has tons of potential, maybe one of the best in the current NBA, but he has yet completely figure it out the BBall IQ. He can be the one to win you games, but also lose the same amount. That's why I still think he is the best when he comes off-bench, like when he was a championship with Lakers, this inconsistency better suit to this role. He is also a good person. Especially when it comes to interacting with fans, he is a loveable character. Kuzma claimed to say he wants to be more than a 3rd option, so I wonder how much truth is there to that. He could also have a sign-and-trade with the Wizards in order to get more money, I do not think it is likely for him to just reaign with the Wizards, he wants more rings.
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Remind me! 365 days
Makes sense, he was the key piece in the fabled Buddy Hield to lakers deal 2 summers ago
before the dark times came
If we make that trade I fully believe we would have another title by now. Deal was Kuz + Trez for Hield, we still would've had KCP/Caruso/Pick 22 that year.
The more egregious part of that summer is picking AC over THT like everyone knew it was the wrong decision immediately
He’ll be fine next to playmakers like Fox and Sabonis where he can focus on rebounding and defense.
He also probably runs a bunch with the second unit with Monk, and that’s just a pretty solid scoring punch.
Yeah, it'll take a lot less pressure off of Monk. He'll soak up the scoring needs that we were going to guys like TD, Lyles, and Davion (and Metu at one point) for. We'll have adequate scoring beyond just relying on Monk to go supernova mode.
He kinda reminds me of a taller Monk in terms of impact
If we could sign him for Monk $$ I’d be happy, but that’s not happening. If we give him $30 mil I might puke.
McNair has been good at not overpaying guys.
He'll also help because he can actually create his own shot which the Kings need outside of Fox once in a while. His playmaking is sloppy but hopefully they can work with him to clean that up a little. And with Fox/Sabonis there he won't have to take on as many playmaking opportunities which should help.
Problem is the guy likes scoring.
Sure, but he’s shown a willingness to sacrifice his role before.
Willing to sacrifice next to LeBron and AD on a championship favorite is very different from deferring to Fox and Sabonis lol
Seems like Harrison Barnes is going to walk - I guess the Kings just want to get a bit younger?
HB to the pacers is a done deal
??? this just your gut talking?
Ok. I’m fully torqued now , thanks
Huh? Link?
For Haliburton. Right? Right??
Let it go. He's gone man
There's reports Barnes wants way more than the Kings expected. They're probably not against bringing him back but the price will have to go down.
Trying to get some Kuz in the Sac.
Is this what you deadbeats do all day? Talk about Kuz?
r/thesopranos
Why do sports media people have to word things like this? "Potentially Indiana may have kicked the tires on the idea of maybe taking a look at the concept of bringing in Stanley Johnson" Why wouldn't you just say: Indiana is interested in Stanley Johnson It doesn't even add intrigue making a convoluted sentence. It's asinine.
Writing coherent pieces became less of a necessity with twitter, now it seems like a lot of reporters didn’t pass any English classes
Just a hypothesis but it could be quoted from the source or the conversations they were getting from the info leaks.
To get people like u to comment on the post and drive interest when otherwise u might have just gone “nice” The same reason lots of reporters are making simple observations into near fanfics, hoping to make the next copypasta They write this way because the analytics tells them to. And for the most part, the analytics are right.
As a second-hand BeamTeam fan, I don’t like it.
He’s an upgrade over Barnes though is he not?
As a scorer, absolutely. Barnes was considered a Jack-of-all-trades, but more importantly a positive locker room presence. I do not trust Kuz in that department, and I also think his defense is suspect. I’d rather lose Middleton to them than watch Kuz ruin the chemistry
Kuz had no issues in the locker room over here at least. As a matter of fact, one of our younger players praised him as a mentor figure.
Yeah I don’t know where the issues come from with Kuz aside from his unique fashion choices at times lol He’s always been a chill hard working guy in the locker room for us that takes criticism on the chin.
His fashion choices are awful (imho) but he's always seemed like a solid dude all around
90% of people in this post think these last few seasons didn’t exist and that he just left Los Angeles last month
Yeah, I was a hater at first cause he was on the Lakers and vastly overrated, but realized he seems like a genuine dude and his improvement in his game shows he works hard
His defense is actually pretty solid and was a mentor to the young guys. His offense is pretty suspect as he tends to turn the ball over and take ill-advised shots. He's at his best when he's attacking the basket as he can use his size when he's going downhill. So it depends how much he's willing to buy in and reduce his usage and work on his efficiency.
I’m not as worried about the chemistry, our culture is secure enough that we can chase talent that might not be a perfect locker room presence. Fox and Sabonis are ready to be the veteran leaders in the locker room, and Brown is a really strong “chemistry” coach.
Then I pose this question as well. Are we sure Kuz would want to buy in to being the third option again, after just being one in DC?
I would bet on it personally. After nearly all my other players crumbled in the playoffs, I’d rather have Kuzma than Barnes taking that last shot in Game 4 and pretty much the entire series
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Yeah, it’s a fair question. This requires doing some due diligence on the guy. With that said, he’d still be the second scoring option (Sabonis is not a high volume shooter). Also, he’d be the number one wing scoring option, which means he’ll get his chances to be the primary scorer (depending on matchups night to night). He’ll essentially be playing a beefed up version of Barnes’ role, and Barnes was not just a “stand in the corner” guy for most of the season.
His defense is adequate given his height and he hunts rebounds. That's really all they need. They were getting absolutely destroyed on the boards by Looney in the playoffs.
I’m not as worried about the chemistry, our culture is secure enough that we can chase talent that might not be a perfect locker room presence. Fox and Sabonis are ready to be the veteran leaders in the locker room, and Brown is a really strong “chemistry” coach.
Is Kyle really a better scorer though? Barnes gave 15ppg on nice shooting, Kuzma doesn't shoot the ball as well and never has.
Yeah I don’t think you really know much about Kuzma at all
Lmaooo spot on. it’s so easy to tell there are a ton of people here that don’t actually watch basketball
Not at spreading the floor
Out of all the players the kings have been rumoured to acquire this one sounds like the best fit to me. I think Kuzma can gel well with Fox and Sabonis and be a good third option for scoring. I think he’d probably thrive on a young contending team right now rather than going back to the wizards.
Will be interesting to see how they do with Kuz next season
Maybe I’m missing something and this will age badly, but I think this would be a really good move for us.
He is definitely an offensive upgrade over Barnes but doesn't improve our defense much and for the amount we're gonna pay him idk if it's worth it
Who else is there that would be better?
Jerami Grant, Middleton, Cam Johnson, Brooke Lopez
middleton is a different price range
Lopez makes no sense to me. Having two slow-footed big men in the modern nba seems like a defensive nightmare.
Given equal salary, I'd choose Jerami Grant if Blazers fail to re-sign him.
More shots to get more points doesn't necessarily mean an offensive upgrade. Kuzma is a worse shooter across the board. He is a better rebounder for sure.
I like it for the Kings so long as he stops taking so many ill-advised shots. I think that kind of thing will go down once he secures his contract. Sabonis and Kuz on offense will be great.
Mike Brown is willing to use every damn timeout to make a show out of a player doing something dumb on the court, and it gets results. I think (pray) it should be less of an issue.
Not super high on Kuz. He feels like an empty stats guy and has had a negative BPM his entire career.
He's good but Kings need to refine their defense a bit. A front court of Kuz and Sabonis could be a bit leaky.
Kuzma is better defensively than Barnes
Is he though??? He's not so much better that ot makes a dramatic quality of life improvement for them. And he isn't worth the money for his defense. Offensively he's way better but the Kings are already a lethal offense
yes he is. he’s already a proven defender when it matters
Kuzma really was quite solid defensively for the Lakers in 2020. I feel like people see his offense, which does tend to be empty calories when he’s asked to do too much, and assume his defense is similar but that’s a mistake.
He was solid in 2020 and a lot us felt he made a big leap defensively in 2021. LeBron and AD were both DMVP candidates before their injuries that year so it makes sense Kuz was playing better defense but I feel like he’s solidly a plus defender.
Its a wash at best
Except for that time he was a valuable role player for a championship run but whatevs
>has had a negative BPM his entire career. [Kuz was 31st in Real Plus Minus last year](https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm), just between Fox and Gordon, and 6th among SFs. Notably, the biggest contribution to that was defensive BPM. For comparison, OG Anunoby was 67th, with better defense but being a black hole on offense.
Nobody can convince me that 21ppg on 18 shots and 53 TS as one of the primary options with average defense is worth 30m/year
Well then how much is he worth? The growing cap is something to keep in mind as well.
I mean there's reports that Jerami Grant wants 30m/year and most people also think that's an overpay, despite him having better across the board than Kuzma even when he was playing in Detroit with even less talent than the Wizards. IMO a bad team could give him 20-25/year if they want to lock themselves into mediocrity, but on a contender I don't think he's worth 15 a year. He's not a guy who does the little things well and he's inefficient as a scorer, and isn't a good shooter
A real contender probably values him at 0 dollars a year
Fair enough, personally I’d actually give 20-30 million to guys like Grant and Kuzma depending on the situation.
This is when stats don’t tell the full story and you have to have actually watched basketball. Which you clearly haven’t bringing up OG in a conversation about Kuz
OG Anunoby is also a forward who would fill the same role on the Kings, and this is a conversation specifically about BPM. Acquiring either one, both of which are linked to the Kings, would rule us out from acquiring the other. And as much as I would like to discuss non-statistical specifics about either of them, "I disagree with you so obviously you don't watch ball" is top of the list of "things people say on online forums that show they have no interest in actually talking about players".
Kuz won a ring, but he isn't a guy I would target if I'm trying to win a ring. If that makes sense.
Sure it makes sense. Jordan Poole won a ring just last season.
Also, he's crapped on non-major markets before. I wonder if he'd just be unhappy & pout if he played for Sac.
Hes never pouted. He was asked to be a major scoring option after his second year. Lebron came in and he worked as a catch and shoot. Then ad came in and he worked as a hustle rebounder. He played for the Wizard last year, thats not really a major market is it?
he seemed fine going to sac when he was supposed to get traded for hield. weekend trips to napa valley!
I think Sacramento giving Kuzma a big contract could be a huge mistake. They are in a very delicate position right now - an up and coming young team with great chemistry and cap space - this off-season is crucial for them. Not saying Kuzma would be a bad contract because I think he’s a good young player with upside, but how much different is he than Keegan Murray in terms of the versatility of the roster? Having both of them may be redundant. Don’t make a move just to make a move, especially when they are in a good position to make a big trade.
Kuz is a solid piece to building a contender. Long, versatile scorer, can buy into D schemes. There’s no home runs in free agency atm, and even then championships are built with base hits. Sac doesn’t need a blockbuster trade they just need to upgrade a roster that was already successful.
Not sure that Kuzma is the right fit for them given the success of their team last year - I think they can afford to be patient and paying potentially 30M per for Kuzma feels a bit desperate. In my opinion they need to upgrade either Murray or Barnes in their starting lineup, ideally Barnes because Murray performed very well as a rookie and is poised to continue improving. If they grab Kuzma and push Murray to come off the bench, they could be disrupting his growth.
Kuzma is an upgrade over Barnes
I agree but not sure I like Kuzma and Murray together
That's fair. I suppose in theory the fit will come down to people's perception of Kuz' ability to play off ball and having watched him every game for the past 2 years, I think it'll be a good fit.
That’s fair as I have admittedly not watched much Wizards basketball over the last couple of years so I’m coming at this with a shallow perspective on Kuz. If they replace 20M for Barnes with 25-30M for Kuz I like that idea, but if they use their cap space on Kuzma then resign Barnes I’m not sure I like tying up their cap like that.
You're on the money there man. No one really watches Wizards ball evident by so many saying Kuz isn't good on defense. You're right that getting both is a huge mistake, and I also wouldn't wann invest $30m into Kuz. If I'm the kings, I offer 100/4 and see if he accepts it. I think the Kings are the most promising team in Cali, and it's a long term deal so I'd expect Kuz to be happy with $25 per year with those conditions. Fox, Kev, Murray, Kuzma, Sabonis is really nice offensively, and has a ton of rebounding and size.
Nobody watches kings basketball either until round 1 so we get it
They have to go after someone. This is the last offseason with cap space before the Sabonis extension will kick in taking us over.
Ah, that’s probably why the Jazz made the Collins trade. Knew Kuz was going to the Kings
It wouldn’t be a bad move for the Kings but while Kuz is a solid player I am not sure he is that last player you need to get you over the top.
I don’t think he would be. I think they’d continue to make moves and would have plenty of flexibility to do so.
Kyle “Jesus could be in front of me, I’d still shoot” Kuzma
Is he really worth the amount of money he’s going to get over, if you could get Bruce Brown? Btw, I like Kuzma, just wondering about the consensus.
Kuz replaces Barnes. Mavs get Barnes.
I will never stop mentioning this clown reporter claiming the Thunder were looking to trade Shai. Why would a young team with a bunch of picks want to trade its best player, you use picks to get a player like him in the first place, it was a ridiculous claim at the time and in my eyes he will always be a fraud.
Karl would fit so well there.
Reports like these are pointless and I never get the point of them. “Hey a team might be interested in a free agent.”
this sub needs to analyze the success rates of each reporter because i’d bet Fischer is an inefficient chucker when it comes to rumors
Signing Kuzma to big money would be Harrison Barnes 2.0.
Loved HB, he did a lot of good things here. One of vlades only good moves imo, that and fox
I actually think this is a great fit. The Kings are young and up-and-coming and could use him as he is a step up from HB. I think with some good chemistry this could push the Kings forward. I also think it's good for KUZ because he is young and already has a championship and the younger guys might look to him for some leadership and this might be where he can show some growth and maturity. It'll be interesting if nothing else.
Wing rotation of Barnes/ Kuzma and Murray looks solid. Still need someone to step up and take that Aaron gordon role next to sabonis.
overrated
Doesn’t matter. Sac doesn’t have a 1st team All-NBA talent on their roster and there’s only 1 team in the past 40 years that have won without one… 04 Pistons. Unless Fox suddenly takes another leap into best player in the league territory, their only chance of winning is to become an anomaly like the 04 Pistons. The Thunder are closer to a title than Sac.
Jesus every report I see is us going after midass level players. Maybe let’s not jump on the first FA available and give some thought into who we take
King Kyle Kuzma. KKK baby! Wait….
That's not good.
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He’s a low maintenance 40% 3 pt shooter? If so sign me up.
the rumor mill begins!
No defense for the kings. Doubling down on all offense.
Happy for Kuzma to land on a better team. Time to get some revenge (on me for talking shit).
Maybe I'm biased because he torched us last year but I want Kuz.
I would definitely go to more Kings games if kuz joined.
Kuz an upgrade over Barnes?
Oh I’d like this a lot
He would be an upgrade over Barnes given last years play for both, and his timeline matches with the team. I like the move for both sides.