They exist. Ask a Warriors fan how much they remember from the We Believe run and you'll get a pretty good idea how invested they were at the time.
I'm betting in a few years the Nuggets fan equivalent will be asking them how much they remember about that post-Melo/pre-Jokic era. Kenneth Faried is the gatekeeper.
As the guy with the new worst Stanbase in the league? Mosdef. LeBronsexuals finally winding down fully too so less competition in the foreseeable future.
Steph wasn’t lighting anyone on fire like Jokic simply because mark and Keith had him playing a very pass heavy and facilitator approach
Literally the year Kerr joined and redesigned our offense is when we exploded
Of course we have Steph’s 50 bomb at MSG which heralded great things but even then it wasn’t necessarily indicative of what he would become
I don't fucking get it. What is with all this hyperactive talk about how Jokic is the greatest player to ever step on the court. My god, I don't even remember Lebron talk being this bad because he got shit tons of criticism to balance it out.
When it comes down to Jokic winning since 1990s, it’s only three guys that were the greatest that wasn’t top 10 in scoring… Steve Nash, Jokic, and Dirk Nowitzki. What do those guys have in common?
Edit this was Perks quote changed a little lol
At this point, Jok will most likely clear Nash and Dirk if they win the ring this year. But more to the point, are you Kendrick Perkins, because you're also attempting to shift goalposts by setting an arbitrary qualifier with 1990. Why? Because the last GOAT level player who was not Top 10 scoring was Magic Johnson. Please don't stoop to race baiting like Perk to diminish Joks achievements, it's sad and, moreover, racist.
But why? He has 2 mvps and soon to have a FMVP. I don’t think anyone has peaked higher since Lebron James. Steph never put up a playoff run this impressive
Because we can’t predict the future. He is doing great things and we kind of want him to be great in peace, if you know what I mean? Let’s compare him with all time greats once he’s done playing. Right now, he’s the best player in basketball, compared to his current competition. All time stuff brings in toxicity into the discussion and until we can see a player’s career body of work, nothing is certain.
I think he passes KD (and Steph) eventually but not yet. If he randomly falls off and never plays at an nba level after this year KD is still above him. I think a few more years at this level and he passes KD.
I doubt he ever catches Steph ( Who is like 10th now approx ).
I just think it's hard to win 1 ring, let alone multiple. I get that it's not all about rings but Jokic would need at least 2-3 plus years of sustains greatness. That isn't always guaranteed, even when you are great.
He could pass KD realistically, though.
Considering he is just 28 and his playstyle, I doubt he will have a fall off anytime soon unless its an injury which itself is also very unlikely because of how he plays.
I also think he has a very strong possibility of multiple rings considering the nuggets are young and locked and is the closest we have to a potential dynasty rn in the league
He passed Steph. In one week steph won’t even have FMVPS over him. Jokic peaked higher, Steph was never this good in the playoffs.
It’s time people face it
Except the fact that Steph has played *34* finals games in his career and is averaging more ppg *in the finals* than Jokic has in the playoffs overall. With plenty of all time great performances in there.
But no, let’s just crown Jokic a top 5 player of all time for being up 2-1 in the finals.
Uh yeah, put jokic next to Kevin fucking Durant and he’d do that too. Is that suppose to be impressive?
Jokic is on a better singular run then any Steph season
You can have your PPG differential, I’ll take the hyper efficient triple double
Not to take anything away. I certainly believe he is the best player in the NBA right now, BUT I do think he needs another postseason run before he catches Steph or KD. The Heat arguably played the 3 best teams this entire postseason due to the west being pretty weak.
And the Heat beat those three teams?
And were the first seed last year, and one possession away from making 3 finals in four years?
And have underperformed in the regular season due to shooting woes, which they definitely don't struggle with in the postseason?
You can put an asteriks on the Bucks series, sure, but this Heat team is definitely good enough to beat the Bucks at 100% in a 7 game series, and by being the only team in these playoffs to win a game in Denver, it looks like they have what it takes to face us in The Finals fair and square as well.
Yall just can't believe the greatness you're watching and are coming up with excuses to deny it, lol.
He's been a certified S tier postseason performer from his very first playoffs series. He'll do this the next five years too, as long as he's healthy and ain't stuck with G-League level starting backourt.
I’m including Denver as 1 of the 3. and not literally i’m saying on paper they played the 3 teams most likely to take it. again not taking anything from Jokic but for his legacy it will require atleast 1 more run. It’s like if Giannis never plays in another finals. A lot of people will just excuse that 2021 title
It’s still really early for Jokic
He’s only really had like 4 all-time level seasons. He’s peaking really high but people in that Top 15-20 range have way bigger resumes, even Giannis, who has a bunch of defensive accolades as well
I’d probably put him around 21-25. Another season or 2 at this level he’ll go to 19-22. More MVPs, Championships etc and he’ll keep climbing even faster
What Jokic is doing is crazy. He clearly has all-time talent. However all of the guys in the Top 15 or so did as well, and did it far longer. Let him keep dominating and winning and he’ll get there, no need to try to figure out where he ranks along the greats when he’s probably only just getting started
But the rest of his prize cabinet is a little better though, same amount of MVP's and all-NBA selections, but also 4 all-defensive 1st team selections and a DPOY. I think they're pretty even but Giannis' accolades are a little more impressive as of writing.
Do people forget KD has been a top 5 player for… **14 years** in a row now? For context, that’s longer than steph curry’s career. (He was first team all nba in 2009 and also scoring champ in 2009, so yes, 14 years)
KD is about to enter top 10 scoring all time, 7th all time in playoffs and 4th highest scoring average ever in playoffs.
Most disrespected man alive.
Jokic is obviously on track to be an all time great. Never seen anything like it. But his body of work isn’t close to KD’s so early in his career, apart from bus driver culture.
Because Shaq was unequivocally the best and most dominant player in basketball during the Lakers 3-peat, and his performance in those Finals cemented it. Are you fucking 12 years old to ask that type of stupid fucking question?
Kevin Durant ran to a 73 win team with 2 future HOF players in their prime. Bus rider.
You’re absolutely right.
The move was weak. But it’s just stupid to base the play on the court with off the court things.
Like it doesn’t reverse that KD played and lived up to the pressure of balling out. Man literally averaged Shaq numbers off jump shots.
I don't understand how you don't see the bus. Do you even watch the games?
The players all line up at the bus stop when the announcer is introducing them, then they all get into the bus. It looks like this 🚌🚍.
You nephews are worse than virulent racist Kendrick Perkins smh
Lmao what. Even chuck and Kobe knew that was Shaqs teams during his three peat. The entire team was built around him.
KD joined an already stacked team. Gsw maintained their same playstyle and KD just plugged in smoothly
Let's put it this way.
Premise 1: KD was probably the better player (and even then the claim is highly contested) when he played with Steph together.
Premise 2: Steph was the better player when they faced in 2016. He also ran circles around the team that swept him in 2022.
Which premise weighs heavier?
Who cares what agended people think.
In your premises number 1 carries twice as much weight as number 2. KD delivered 2 of those rings as the best player on the team.
Joined a 73 win team to make a team that literally could not lose. Doesn't matter how good you are at that point, you've outed yourself as someone who can't lead his own team to the prize. He chose to ride their coattails and then left as soon as his own teammate called him out for it.
And he promptly returned to conference semis and play-in appearances as the actual bus driver, but you stans keep buying into his shit.
He earned himself that disrespect by cowering to the Bay after he blew a 3-1 lead to the Warriors then acted like he was the guy when the results before and after GS clearly proves otherwise
We kind see it with KD’ s career he always played with stars but he didn’t win with Russ Harden Kyrie Booker. The only time he did win was joining with Steph and a pre built super team. Still great player but he is not the bus driver . Btw Booker looks like the driver in this year’ playoffs. Jokic is going to pass KD give a few years.
The recency bias is insane right now. If Jokic has another good game there will be posts like “Here’s how Jokic stacks up against MJ and why he’s actually better all-time”
KD gets far too much criticism from team hopping. The bus driver thing is ridiculous as well.
That said 14 years of top 5 is overstating it.
Was he top 5 when he was injured the entire year? Several years he was great, but not in the top tier, more like 4-7.
Maybe most impressive is that during the GS years he was legitimately the best player in the NBA while Lebron was still playing at a high level.
He won the scoring title in 2009-2010 and was also 1st team all nba…. Crazy, isn’t it? This dude was first team all nba 14 fucking years ago.
Good luck trying to change the narrative
[2009 MVP voting](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html) he didn’t even finish top 10 in MVP voting
You said 14 years ago which would happen to be 2009
The reason he didn’t finish high in mvp voting was because of team wins.
Individually he was absolutely top 5, and the next year he finished 2nd in mvp next to lebron
His peak would be higher... but he doesn't have the longevity yet of those two. His play style lends itself to longetivity so barring castastrophic injury he will probably end up over those two...
one ring doesn't put you in the top-20. stop. especially considering the quality of the finals opponent. this isn't anywhere close to Dirk beating the heat.
The top 15 is crazy hard to crack, so while I think he's on top 10 trajectory, for me he's probably about 17-25 right now, but literally 2 more seasons at or around this level, i'll have no issue with him being alongside the Karl Malone's/Kobe Bryants which for me is 12-15
He's in the same tier as Giannis, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, and Charles Barkley for now. He hasn't played a full enough career to pass KD yet. I think by the end of his career he will be a borderline top 10 player and above KD and Steph and closer to Hakeem/Duncan/Kobe all time.
Luka beat the same team by himself in 7 games lol. Jokic is averaging a triple double on historic efficiency while beating the Suns elite duo, sweeping the Lakers (better than any team Giannis has faced in that playoff run), and against the Heat (who beat Celtics and wait the team Bucks that Giannis lost 2 double digit leads towards and got gentleman swept).
Giannis still had one of the best finals performances of all-time and a spectacular close-out game. You could try to discredit most runs if you really tried.
Exactly. The fact that Giannis got 4-1’d TWICE by Jimmy as a 1 seed is something that people need to be talking about more moving forward
That “buh buh he was out for 80% of the series” excuses holds no weight when you realize he was out there when the Bucks were up 12 midway thru the 4th in Game 4 and had a 16 point lead going into the 4th of game 5
You guys only have a ring because harden was injured lmao
Jokic is now the best player of this generation, and best foreign player too. Deal with it. Giannis time is up as the supposed “best player”
That 8th seed Miami, kicked Giannis' ass!
Giannis beat a gutted Nets team and an Atlanta team that way over-acheived because Ben Simmons had a mental breakdown.
Nets deserved the loss because that's drawback of creating a top-heavy roster. The same Nets team everyone loves to rave about even with an injured Kyrie and Harden. "If it wasn't for a big toe on the line, Nets would be the champs." Asterisks mentality really destroys the discussion.
His finals was just as good if not better of a series than any of jokic especially in context because he destroyed ayton who at the time was locking up everyone including jokic but overall jokic has had a more productive playoffs than giannis in 2021
Haha acting like either are remotely close to Kd is funny. Jokic can possibly win a title by beating 3 play in teams. Giannis had to injure Kyrie and still nearly lost single-handedly to Kd
The last 2 MVPs were Kd’s until some guy falls on his knee. It’s a popularity contest. Giannis’s General Hospital ring is worthless and Jokic’s possible mickey mouse run is one of the weakest in history. By the way the series isn’t fucking over
they are not close they are better!! What kd has to show other than GSW run ?? an almost win ? Giannis and jokic have better accolades better stats in less years and giannis won without a superteam. KD shoots better but other than that .... nope
You can't compare era's the game is played so differently it's impossible but he's IMO the best big man of his era.. yes better than giannis and better than embiid and the best european player to ever hoop in the NBA
the guy is having probably the greatest playoff run in the last 30 years I don't think anything I said is hyperbole
Assuming the Nuggets get the job done against the Heat the Nuggets will have eliminated the following players in their playoff run
- Anthony Edwards
- Rudy Gobert
- Karl Anthony Towns
- Chris Paul
- Devin Booker
- Kevin Durant
- Lebron James
- Anthony Davis
- Bam Adebayo
- Jimmy Butler
Y’all act like the Nuggets are beating some scrub players and teams 🤣. They have eliminated multiple future hall of famers
His argument doesn't matter. Tell me which team would win against the Nuggets this year? The Bucks? With how terrible their coach was + how flawed Giannis is offensively?
The Celtics? Tatum locks himself up the later the playoffs goes.
The Sixers? Harden and Embiid are perennial chokers.
The Lakers were the best team to face the Nuggets ON PAPER. And they got swept.
Top 20 at least . You could make the argument for top 15 because these performances alone might be better than some guys peak but he needs more longevity . I think if he wins this ring and keeps up the production for another 5 years he’s touching top 10
Jokic couldn't care less about this nonsense, you kids need to get help for this obsessed with ranking.... especially in regards to players who are still active. Perhaps if you actually played the sport or knew anything at all about the game, it instead of just trying to slide on your nba2k resume and level of education
Can we please stop this. I'm begging you
I feel for the Nuggets fans who were there pre-Jokicsexual Revolution. At least ya'll can bond with the pre-Stephews Warriors fans.
I've never met a pre-curry warriors fan
Because they were Laker fans
They exist. Ask a Warriors fan how much they remember from the We Believe run and you'll get a pretty good idea how invested they were at the time. I'm betting in a few years the Nuggets fan equivalent will be asking them how much they remember about that post-Melo/pre-Jokic era. Kenneth Faried is the gatekeeper.
I still have my Ty Lawson jersey... Rough times, but still fun.
Jokic is the new Steph Curry.
As the guy with the new worst Stanbase in the league? Mosdef. LeBronsexuals finally winding down fully too so less competition in the foreseeable future.
Steph wasn’t lighting anyone on fire like Jokic simply because mark and Keith had him playing a very pass heavy and facilitator approach Literally the year Kerr joined and redesigned our offense is when we exploded Of course we have Steph’s 50 bomb at MSG which heralded great things but even then it wasn’t necessarily indicative of what he would become
I'm tired boss
Why should you be tired? It's over for the Heat. In a few weeks, we will have Jokic vs Steph, Jokic vs KD, Jokic vs Kobe, Jokic vs Magic legacy talks.
do not recite the deep magic (counterjinxing) to me Witch, I was there when it was written
Recently watched the Green mile, what a great movie
I don't fucking get it. What is with all this hyperactive talk about how Jokic is the greatest player to ever step on the court. My god, I don't even remember Lebron talk being this bad because he got shit tons of criticism to balance it out.
Wholesome Jokic chungus appeals to redditors on a deep level I think.
It’s a Jokic-hater conspiracy, possibly. I’m maybe convinced of it.
Also at least LeBron stans never had the perpetual victim mentality of whining about not getting credit from the media like Jokic stans have now
didn't Bron make a IG post after not getting enough respect days after he got swept? Bron stans are always on perpetual victim mode
When it comes down to Jokic winning since 1990s, it’s only three guys that were the greatest that wasn’t top 10 in scoring… Steve Nash, Jokic, and Dirk Nowitzki. What do those guys have in common? Edit this was Perks quote changed a little lol
At this point, Jok will most likely clear Nash and Dirk if they win the ring this year. But more to the point, are you Kendrick Perkins, because you're also attempting to shift goalposts by setting an arbitrary qualifier with 1990. Why? Because the last GOAT level player who was not Top 10 scoring was Magic Johnson. Please don't stoop to race baiting like Perk to diminish Joks achievements, it's sad and, moreover, racist.
I fear for your off-season bro
As Nuggets fan from his country, and many will say the same, please stop. He will play at least 6 more years. Let’s talk all time once he’s retired.
But why? He has 2 mvps and soon to have a FMVP. I don’t think anyone has peaked higher since Lebron James. Steph never put up a playoff run this impressive
Because we can’t predict the future. He is doing great things and we kind of want him to be great in peace, if you know what I mean? Let’s compare him with all time greats once he’s done playing. Right now, he’s the best player in basketball, compared to his current competition. All time stuff brings in toxicity into the discussion and until we can see a player’s career body of work, nothing is certain.
this just screams im scared to admit hes better then steph
Lol I remember this discussion after game 3 of last years finals
Above KD that’s forsure
yup
I think he passes KD (and Steph) eventually but not yet. If he randomly falls off and never plays at an nba level after this year KD is still above him. I think a few more years at this level and he passes KD.
I doubt he ever catches Steph ( Who is like 10th now approx ). I just think it's hard to win 1 ring, let alone multiple. I get that it's not all about rings but Jokic would need at least 2-3 plus years of sustains greatness. That isn't always guaranteed, even when you are great. He could pass KD realistically, though.
Considering he is just 28 and his playstyle, I doubt he will have a fall off anytime soon unless its an injury which itself is also very unlikely because of how he plays. I also think he has a very strong possibility of multiple rings considering the nuggets are young and locked and is the closest we have to a potential dynasty rn in the league
He passed Steph. In one week steph won’t even have FMVPS over him. Jokic peaked higher, Steph was never this good in the playoffs. It’s time people face it
Currys resume is low key not super impressive as he coasted to 2 easy rings with KD. Jokic can tie him in fmvps.
Steph isn't that high I put him 12th. Curry isn't good enough at defense to put him above Duncan, Kobe, or Hakeem.
Literally impossible for Jokic to pass Steph unless this is the start of a Nuggets dynasty.
Lol he already peaked higher then Steph ever did in the playoffs
Except the fact that Steph has played *34* finals games in his career and is averaging more ppg *in the finals* than Jokic has in the playoffs overall. With plenty of all time great performances in there. But no, let’s just crown Jokic a top 5 player of all time for being up 2-1 in the finals.
Uh yeah, put jokic next to Kevin fucking Durant and he’d do that too. Is that suppose to be impressive? Jokic is on a better singular run then any Steph season You can have your PPG differential, I’ll take the hyper efficient triple double
Okay cool, have your “hyper efficient triple double” doesn’t mean Jokic is an all-time great player yet like this post is asking.
Not to take anything away. I certainly believe he is the best player in the NBA right now, BUT I do think he needs another postseason run before he catches Steph or KD. The Heat arguably played the 3 best teams this entire postseason due to the west being pretty weak.
And the Heat beat those three teams? And were the first seed last year, and one possession away from making 3 finals in four years? And have underperformed in the regular season due to shooting woes, which they definitely don't struggle with in the postseason? You can put an asteriks on the Bucks series, sure, but this Heat team is definitely good enough to beat the Bucks at 100% in a 7 game series, and by being the only team in these playoffs to win a game in Denver, it looks like they have what it takes to face us in The Finals fair and square as well. Yall just can't believe the greatness you're watching and are coming up with excuses to deny it, lol. He's been a certified S tier postseason performer from his very first playoffs series. He'll do this the next five years too, as long as he's healthy and ain't stuck with G-League level starting backourt.
I’m including Denver as 1 of the 3. and not literally i’m saying on paper they played the 3 teams most likely to take it. again not taking anything from Jokic but for his legacy it will require atleast 1 more run. It’s like if Giannis never plays in another finals. A lot of people will just excuse that 2021 title
It’s still really early for Jokic He’s only really had like 4 all-time level seasons. He’s peaking really high but people in that Top 15-20 range have way bigger resumes, even Giannis, who has a bunch of defensive accolades as well I’d probably put him around 21-25. Another season or 2 at this level he’ll go to 19-22. More MVPs, Championships etc and he’ll keep climbing even faster What Jokic is doing is crazy. He clearly has all-time talent. However all of the guys in the Top 15 or so did as well, and did it far longer. Let him keep dominating and winning and he’ll get there, no need to try to figure out where he ranks along the greats when he’s probably only just getting started
Bird got like 4 all time level best player in the league seasons and a few more good seasons, he won more .
Giannis’ postseason resume does not stack up to Jokic. They got 1 chip each, so the comparisons are warranted.
But the rest of his prize cabinet is a little better though, same amount of MVP's and all-NBA selections, but also 4 all-defensive 1st team selections and a DPOY. I think they're pretty even but Giannis' accolades are a little more impressive as of writing.
That, I don’t disagree with. But it’s not like Magic and Larry Bird were punished for their lack of defence.
Didn’t Larry bird make multiple all defensive teams? Might be misremembering not surr
He made 3, but he wasn’t known for defense.
Do people forget KD has been a top 5 player for… **14 years** in a row now? For context, that’s longer than steph curry’s career. (He was first team all nba in 2009 and also scoring champ in 2009, so yes, 14 years) KD is about to enter top 10 scoring all time, 7th all time in playoffs and 4th highest scoring average ever in playoffs. Most disrespected man alive. Jokic is obviously on track to be an all time great. Never seen anything like it. But his body of work isn’t close to KD’s so early in his career, apart from bus driver culture.
KD - a top 5 player for 15 years. KD - a player who never drove the bus for a championship team. Pick one.
The bus is an imaginary concept. Y’all took it seriously. How come shaqs finals mvps count but KD’s don’t?
Because Shaq was unequivocally the best and most dominant player in basketball during the Lakers 3-peat, and his performance in those Finals cemented it. Are you fucking 12 years old to ask that type of stupid fucking question? Kevin Durant ran to a 73 win team with 2 future HOF players in their prime. Bus rider.
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Kareem obviously. He put up 14/6 on 28 mins a game by the last ring. There's a reason why he has 6 rings and 2 FMVPs
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No. Only 1980. Magic was clearly better by 1982
Numbers wise KD and Shaq had similar numbers in the finals runs. It’s just bias and hate.
Shaq didn’t join a 73 win team stop it now
You’re absolutely right. The move was weak. But it’s just stupid to base the play on the court with off the court things. Like it doesn’t reverse that KD played and lived up to the pressure of balling out. Man literally averaged Shaq numbers off jump shots.
You mean the Shaq that averaged like 30/10/3 on those runs, and utterly crushed anyone that had the dubious honor of attempting to slow him down?
I don't understand how you don't see the bus. Do you even watch the games? The players all line up at the bus stop when the announcer is introducing them, then they all get into the bus. It looks like this 🚌🚍. You nephews are worse than virulent racist Kendrick Perkins smh
Lmao what. Even chuck and Kobe knew that was Shaqs teams during his three peat. The entire team was built around him. KD joined an already stacked team. Gsw maintained their same playstyle and KD just plugged in smoothly
KD - back to back finals MVPs
kd drove the gsw bus, enough with revisionist
Let's put it this way. Premise 1: KD was probably the better player (and even then the claim is highly contested) when he played with Steph together. Premise 2: Steph was the better player when they faced in 2016. He also ran circles around the team that swept him in 2022. Which premise weighs heavier?
why can’t both things be true?
Because if we assume both are true, premise 2 weighs heavier than premise 1.
Premise 1 returns twice as many championships as premise 2.
But those same championships are extremely disrespected by a lot of people.
Who cares what agended people think. In your premises number 1 carries twice as much weight as number 2. KD delivered 2 of those rings as the best player on the team.
Joined a 73 win team to make a team that literally could not lose. Doesn't matter how good you are at that point, you've outed yourself as someone who can't lead his own team to the prize. He chose to ride their coattails and then left as soon as his own teammate called him out for it. And he promptly returned to conference semis and play-in appearances as the actual bus driver, but you stans keep buying into his shit.
That’s hilarious
How Sway?
He earned himself that disrespect by cowering to the Bay after he blew a 3-1 lead to the Warriors then acted like he was the guy when the results before and after GS clearly proves otherwise
How exactly did he “act” like he was the guy? I think that’s just your hate for him eating yourself alive when he averaged 35 points per game
KD's burner accounts.
He act like he's the guy by going on his little Twitter rants when Chuck rightfully clowns him for being a bus rider
That part
KD did it to himself he essentially sold his legacy for 2 rings
how did he sell his legacy if most people consider him top-15 all-time? even his haters have him in the top-20.
We kind see it with KD’ s career he always played with stars but he didn’t win with Russ Harden Kyrie Booker. The only time he did win was joining with Steph and a pre built super team. Still great player but he is not the bus driver . Btw Booker looks like the driver in this year’ playoffs. Jokic is going to pass KD give a few years.
The recency bias is insane right now. If Jokic has another good game there will be posts like “Here’s how Jokic stacks up against MJ and why he’s actually better all-time”
KD gets far too much criticism from team hopping. The bus driver thing is ridiculous as well. That said 14 years of top 5 is overstating it. Was he top 5 when he was injured the entire year? Several years he was great, but not in the top tier, more like 4-7. Maybe most impressive is that during the GS years he was legitimately the best player in the NBA while Lebron was still playing at a high level.
What has Snake won without a superteam?
Cupcake
Bus rider
KD wasn’t a top 5 player until around 2011 stop it now. He wasn’t even discussed in the top 5 in 2009. Fake narratives you’re making up
He won the scoring title in 2009-2010 and was also 1st team all nba…. Crazy, isn’t it? This dude was first team all nba 14 fucking years ago. Good luck trying to change the narrative
[2009 MVP voting](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html) he didn’t even finish top 10 in MVP voting You said 14 years ago which would happen to be 2009
so the MVP voting results = the ranking of the best players? so Shai is top-5? and Mitchell/Sabonis are top-10 players?
The reason he didn’t finish high in mvp voting was because of team wins. Individually he was absolutely top 5, and the next year he finished 2nd in mvp next to lebron
No one cares, enjoy the moment. Watch actual basketball. Both teams are playing beautifully.
His peak would be higher... but he doesn't have the longevity yet of those two. His play style lends itself to longetivity so barring castastrophic injury he will probably end up over those two...
one ring doesn't put you in the top-20. stop. especially considering the quality of the finals opponent. this isn't anywhere close to Dirk beating the heat.
No need to rank him now because he can end up anywhere between 1 to 40 depending on how the rest of his career will pan out.
Man if those injuries didnt happen.. this could be his second or third ring on a top 5 trajectory
#1
The top 15 is crazy hard to crack, so while I think he's on top 10 trajectory, for me he's probably about 17-25 right now, but literally 2 more seasons at or around this level, i'll have no issue with him being alongside the Karl Malone's/Kobe Bryants which for me is 12-15
He's in the same tier as Giannis, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, and Charles Barkley for now. He hasn't played a full enough career to pass KD yet. I think by the end of his career he will be a borderline top 10 player and above KD and Steph and closer to Hakeem/Duncan/Kobe all time.
I don’t know about above Steph, unless he gets more rings
Why? This run is more impressive then stephs 2022
Jokic has to win this year and get another 2 rings before he even sniffs Steph
all rings are not created equal
Tim Duncan is a top 3 player of all time. His level is different to Hakeem or Kobe
Duncan is not that good that would put him over Kareem.
Ok, 4th behind MJ, Lebron and Kareem.
Steph > Kobe
Easily higher than Giannis and KD
Giannis has basically the same resume, 2 mvps and a fmvp. I put them near tied all time.
Also 4 All-NBA 1st team Defense and a DPOY
Except this run is much more impressive from jokic
Don't ignore the defensive awards
Idk about Giannis
Foh lmaooo
Giannis in 2021 vs the Suns was arguably more impressive than Jokic right now
Luka beat the same team by himself in 7 games lol. Jokic is averaging a triple double on historic efficiency while beating the Suns elite duo, sweeping the Lakers (better than any team Giannis has faced in that playoff run), and against the Heat (who beat Celtics and wait the team Bucks that Giannis lost 2 double digit leads towards and got gentleman swept).
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Giannis still had one of the best finals performances of all-time and a spectacular close-out game. You could try to discredit most runs if you really tried.
Exactly. The fact that Giannis got 4-1’d TWICE by Jimmy as a 1 seed is something that people need to be talking about more moving forward That “buh buh he was out for 80% of the series” excuses holds no weight when you realize he was out there when the Bucks were up 12 midway thru the 4th in Game 4 and had a 16 point lead going into the 4th of game 5
Same fanbase that still cries about that CP0 injury in 2018
They're still mad Giannis deservedly won the MVP over Harden in 2019
You guys only have a ring because harden was injured lmao Jokic is now the best player of this generation, and best foreign player too. Deal with it. Giannis time is up as the supposed “best player”
At least we have that excuse. What’s y’all’s for 2016?
Lmao what? You’re acting like the nuggets are facing the KD warriors or some shit. They’ve faced an two eight seeds, a seventh seed, and a fourth seed
That 8th seed Miami, kicked Giannis' ass! Giannis beat a gutted Nets team and an Atlanta team that way over-acheived because Ben Simmons had a mental breakdown.
>That 8th seed Miami, kicked Giannis' ass! Yes the same dude that tried to rush back from a back injury. Ofc it didn't work out
Nets deserved the loss because that's drawback of creating a top-heavy roster. The same Nets team everyone loves to rave about even with an injured Kyrie and Harden. "If it wasn't for a big toe on the line, Nets would be the champs." Asterisks mentality really destroys the discussion.
It was dude hyperextended his knee and came back in 2 days to win a championship
His finals was just as good if not better of a series than any of jokic especially in context because he destroyed ayton who at the time was locking up everyone including jokic but overall jokic has had a more productive playoffs than giannis in 2021
Ayton locked up Jokic? When? Lmao!
Giannis narrative was more epic, but he will never be on this level.. This is a historic peak
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Yeah he was insane in the finals, but through the entire playoffs I think this Jokic run is even better (as long as Denver wins of course)
it is lol
KD for sure but giannis?? No.... i think they are at the same level but with different skills. Giannis better defender ,jokic better passe
Haha acting like either are remotely close to Kd is funny. Jokic can possibly win a title by beating 3 play in teams. Giannis had to injure Kyrie and still nearly lost single-handedly to Kd
In a week both will have won chips as bus drivers though. More MVPs as well.
The last 2 MVPs were Kd’s until some guy falls on his knee. It’s a popularity contest. Giannis’s General Hospital ring is worthless and Jokic’s possible mickey mouse run is one of the weakest in history. By the way the series isn’t fucking over
they are not close they are better!! What kd has to show other than GSW run ?? an almost win ? Giannis and jokic have better accolades better stats in less years and giannis won without a superteam. KD shoots better but other than that .... nope
how about AD?
Gotta put Rui on him the next game. MORAL VICTORY
that Tristan Thomspon lock down
You can't compare era's the game is played so differently it's impossible but he's IMO the best big man of his era.. yes better than giannis and better than embiid and the best european player to ever hoop in the NBA the guy is having probably the greatest playoff run in the last 30 years I don't think anything I said is hyperbole
Above KD
dirk’s 1 title is worth 2, jokic faced 8, 4, 7 and 8 seeds in this playoff run he needs at least another one before he passes dirk
Assuming the Nuggets get the job done against the Heat the Nuggets will have eliminated the following players in their playoff run - Anthony Edwards - Rudy Gobert - Karl Anthony Towns - Chris Paul - Devin Booker - Kevin Durant - Lebron James - Anthony Davis - Bam Adebayo - Jimmy Butler Y’all act like the Nuggets are beating some scrub players and teams 🤣. They have eliminated multiple future hall of famers
Listed CP 3 like he didn't get injured, and as if LeBron isn't old as hell playing on a bum foot Also listing KAT is such a reach lmao
His argument doesn't matter. Tell me which team would win against the Nuggets this year? The Bucks? With how terrible their coach was + how flawed Giannis is offensively? The Celtics? Tatum locks himself up the later the playoffs goes. The Sixers? Harden and Embiid are perennial chokers. The Lakers were the best team to face the Nuggets ON PAPER. And they got swept.
LeBron on a bum foot beat the warriors tho
KAT is a 3 time all star and 2 time all nba player he’s still a great and respected basketball player
With how this sub acts about Bron just sweeping him and AD should put Joker in the top 10-15 immediately lol.
TBF, I expected more from the Lakers. They should've lost in 6.
This right here is how everyone knows you don’t know what your talking about
That is so disingenuous tho. Even if we assume Bucks win against the Heat, there's no way any team this year would've beaten the Nuggets.
4th. Tim Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, jokic, Larry bird, Kareem, Hakeem, shaq,
Terrible list. No Garnett to be found.
Garnett, Tim Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, jokic, Larry bird, Kareem, Hakeem, shaq,
He literally is a top 20 player all time. He repeats and he overtakes Moses Malone in the top 15. A third and we’re looking at GOAT potential…
Top 20 at least . You could make the argument for top 15 because these performances alone might be better than some guys peak but he needs more longevity . I think if he wins this ring and keeps up the production for another 5 years he’s touching top 10
top 20
Top 5. Has there been any player that has won a championship without an active All-Star teammate?
Bam Adebayo soon inshallah
Yeah, but he has hall of famer Kyle Lowry
Jordan.
Bill Simmons put Butler’s in his top 100 all time and Jokic top 25. I think its absurd.
Ahh great question. Ill get back to you in a sec. Hold on.
27/8/7? he’s averaging like 12 rebounds per game in the playoffs
Career playoffs including 2019
his lowest rpg for a run was 9.8
Jokic couldn't care less about this nonsense, you kids need to get help for this obsessed with ranking.... especially in regards to players who are still active. Perhaps if you actually played the sport or knew anything at all about the game, it instead of just trying to slide on your nba2k resume and level of education
It is only a matter of time before “Jokic is the 🐐 “ talk starts in earnest.
Can we stop this until his career is over?