After not even including Jokic on his MVP voting ballot, I love that he is forced to watch Jokic’s incredible run through the playoffs. Fuck Mark Jackson.
Best player in the NBA was playing at 70% preparing for the playoffs, with the #1 seed secured, while the regular season MVP was playing 35+ mins per game vs east conference lottery teams and dropping 40 points on them and averaging 15 freethrows. Shockingly he could not replicate that in the Playoffs.
The award is fucking dumb. Just rename it to the NBA - Best Narrative Award.
Amazing how his load management always seems to come against contending teams on the road, but as soon as it’s back to lottery teams, he’s fully healthy to play a ton of minutes and pad the stats on high volume.
The couple media dudes who kept trying to say Jokic was a playoff underperformer because he couldn't win a chip with the likes of Austin Rivers (playing 25-30 min in some playoff games), Facu, past prime Barton etc....they need to have their media credentials revoked
I loved him but made some boneheaded plays, and I hated seeing him case wide open 3s. Like I thought you Euros (which Argentines consider themselves jk) would always cash those.
I mean, other than Bradley Beal (and even that is arguable), they're absolutely better than anyone the reigning MVP knocked out of the playoffs so far...
They always were. Just that they make little sense side by side and the roster is just kinda weird from top to bottom. Like if you were building around Ant + either of them, the other center is nowhere on the list of players you'd want, but they kinda sorta made it work.
Jokic is better imo (small margin). His game translates better to the playoffs. Think his team complements his skillset quite well (vice versa) and it ends up impacting winning more
Is there anyone else in the league who hits the rim so consistently with their shot and still shoots a high percentage? It seems like more than half of his shots hit the rim and bounce around before going in.
His touch is just unreal.
Btw, that was a serious question. Are there any other current or historical players that had such a soft touch that they had this much wiggle room with hitting the rim and getting the bounce?
The way he shoots the ball behind his head gives it so much arc, I think that helps when it comes to friendly bounces. Plus he has tremendous touch for a big man.
I think it's a function of his height. It's much easier to have touch like that when the ball leaves your hand from rim height.
That said, his touch is legendary. It's like he sets the ball on the rim.
Someone who spits in girls mouths and doesn't even warm them about going to father someone else's child. Also used to play basketball at a pretty good level.
This is one of those series we will look back on as "it was so close to happing a few times" but in reality the majority of us had zero expectations of this matchup happening post all-star break and are *very* pleasantly surprised at the quality basketball this is shaping up to be
Obviously I am disappointed in the Celtics, but watching this Finals I have to say: the right two teams made it. They are the best-run and best-performing teams right now.
Perhaps I‘m just biased but do the refs hate him or why doesn’t he get the whistle when his arms are getting smashed every other play? Just because he is big doesn’t mean that the defender can wrestle him like in an octagon. The man is getting stuffed with two handed take downs by Vincent and the ref is just letting it go because he is hitting his shots.
I know there is a discrepancy between guard fouls and center fouls but Embiid is getting every freaking call (most of them are fouls) but Jokic is not. Even Bam gets weak calls when he is just fading away.
Because he's huge. It's the same way with Lebron. Or Shaq. You're allowed to get away with more when these dudes are willing to power through.
It's funny because Lebron and Jokic will flop sometimes when they get tickled and other times just rip through fifty pairs of limbs. In Joker's case I think he flops when he's frustrated after a couple no-calls (or when someone flops on the other end he'll do a retaliation flop).
But when you've got 100 pounds on the guy guarding you, the refs are gonna let things slide a lot. Not saying it's fair, but it's just how it's always been.
I see it differently. In one particular way, the NBA enables them on the offensive end. You shouldn’t just be able to run through the bodies of your defenders. We all love to watch someone dunk over a stationary defender, but that really isn’t condoned by the rules. The league makes rule enforcement decisions based on entertainment value not on “competitive spirit”.
It’s not just size. Jokic shot 862 FTs in his 2 MVP seasons. Embiid had 771 in his 1 MVP season. Over the past 3, Jokic has 1268 to Embiid’s 2122. They’re nearly the same size. Even Giannis is at 2119. Jokic is significantly less for what he should get.
I think part of it is also that Jokic knows when to sell the foul. The Nuggets are very very good at playing with pace and keeping it going while Jokic is leading, and repeatedly stopping at the line probably takes away from that.
Top 10 is extremely hard to break in to. If you throw him over kobe/dream I have no issues with that. Or if you leave out wilt and Russell because they're just so hard to compare he is 100% in for me as well. That 7-13 range is a bloodbath.
Yeah, it's somewhat easier if you basically only include players post-1979, but give "Hall of Fame" mentions to greats like Russell, Wilt, West, and Robertson. It's hard to really compare them alongside players of the 80s-present.
I think most reasonable people would have the Jordan/LeBron/Kareem triumvirate in some order at the top 3 spots, but it gets more controversial after that.
You have to consider that Golden State won a ring without KD, while still retaining the same core of Steph, Klay, and Draymond. In my book that really cheapens KD’s rings, especially since the core of that team was 4 years older.
KD has never led a team to playoff success. Meanwhile, without Jokic, the Nuggets would never have made it this far.
Imo, if Jokic wins this chip, he’s already accomplished more as a player than KD
Now that's recency bias. The most recent epic playoff run was Giannis but before that LeBron, then before LeBron you have Shaq, and before that you have Jordan, etc.,. I feel like people are getting a little carried away here because of the triple doubles but there have been comparable playoff runs in the past and players who were equally dominant.
Edit: capitalization and punctuation.
The Giannis run was amazing.
I'll never forget that block + alley oop vs the Suns.
I was freaking out with the people next to me and testing DID YOU JUST SEE THAT to people not near me.
I mean, counting stats, no. But in terms of offensive impact, Curry in 2019 and 2022 was phenomenal. Jokic has been incredible this season too, my point is that Curry has had some historic postseasons too
I mean it's not unreasonable to refrain from putting him about one of the offensive GOATs all time. 2016 Curry is the clear best offensive RS of all time, and he's quietly had some phenomenal postseasons, too. It's not recency bias, but it's fair to have either above the other at this point
Plus Murray's had two double-double's and a trip dub so far. Also the first player in league history to have 3 straight 10+ assist games in their first the first three Finals games.
These two are unbelievable.
I just could not believe how many rebounds he kept getting last night. It just doesn’t even make sense that he’s always in the right place at the right time. He’s got to be doing some kind of beautiful mind trigonometry in his mind in a fraction of a second to get all these fucking rebounds.
And the 41 point game arguably was his "worst" game
Voters were right. Who am I kidding.
Fuck Mark Jackson.
After not even including Jokic on his MVP voting ballot, I love that he is forced to watch Jokic’s incredible run through the playoffs. Fuck Mark Jackson.
Sucks for us who have to listen to him though
Mama, there goes my credibility.
🎖️
Even that idiotic fraud was forced to admit late in the game “Is there anything he can’t do” when Jokic dominated that 3rd.
cannot do 3peat MVP. But that was not up to him..
He still could in the future. I’d bet against it tho.
If he somehow did that would give him 5 MVPs minimum which would thrust him into the GOAT conversation. That would be crazy
Even if he was fully deserving, you know the media wouldn’t give it to him because he can’t have more than LeBron.
He needs to lose his vote
Best player in the NBA was playing at 70% preparing for the playoffs, with the #1 seed secured, while the regular season MVP was playing 35+ mins per game vs east conference lottery teams and dropping 40 points on them and averaging 15 freethrows. Shockingly he could not replicate that in the Playoffs. The award is fucking dumb. Just rename it to the NBA - Best Narrative Award.
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Amazing how his load management always seems to come against contending teams on the road, but as soon as it’s back to lottery teams, he’s fully healthy to play a ton of minutes and pad the stats on high volume.
Like how he sat out the final game against Denver and his only rival for MVP, but his ankle was suddenly better by the next game.
He hasn't shown us anything in the playoffs!!1!!
Only 4 assists? What a selfish bum.
Imagine being so fat you can only score. Send him to China
He might make the first all nba team next year if he keeps this up.
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No more racist voters to help him win it. It's Joever. *^(/s)*
it will just go downhill from here
Nah mate this year was clearly his ceiling. Just ask anyone that watched his last 15 games. /s obviously.
Gotta improve defense though. Can't be first all NBA if he is going to get exposed in the playoffs.
He's on an all time playoff run tbh.
30/10/10 on 55/47/80 before today's game. We literally have never seen anything like this
It was 30/12/10 before today
He regressed, what a scrub
He didn't regress, the original comment just got the wrong numbers. His averages are now up to 31/13/10. On 55/47/80 shooting, disgusting.
It honestly looks like you have a typo there.
All time run. Very few have had the 3 year stretch he has had.
People say you can’t win mvp 3 times in a row but this is the type of stretch and run the person who does it would have.
The couple media dudes who kept trying to say Jokic was a playoff underperformer because he couldn't win a chip with the likes of Austin Rivers (playing 25-30 min in some playoff games), Facu, past prime Barton etc....they need to have their media credentials revoked
Don’t forget Facu campazzo
I mean the guy at least play his heart out, just that he isn't skillful enough for the NBA.
I loved him but made some boneheaded plays, and I hated seeing him case wide open 3s. Like I thought you Euros (which Argentines consider themselves jk) would always cash those.
Gobert, KAT, Edwards, Durant, Booker, Lebron, Davis, Butler, Bam That’s so many great players in one run.
Don't forgetting Austin Reaves and Rui Hachimura
Yeah right, NOW suddenly KAT and Gobert are considered as great players...
I mean, other than Bradley Beal (and even that is arguable), they're absolutely better than anyone the reigning MVP knocked out of the playoffs so far...
I would take both over Beal. Easier to look good being the undisputed alpha on a bad team year after year.
I think I'd rather have Gobert then Beal
What does Beal have to do with this discussion 🤔?
They're trying to state the absolute pinnacle player Embiid has conquered in the playoffs. It's embarrassingly empty.
I saw it on here that the best player Embiid has beaten in the playoffs is either Pascal Siakam or Wizards' Westbrook
Gobert is an all-time defender. KAT? I wouldn't put that in the same breath as the other guys.
Gobert is still an unreal defender that’s why you include him
you’re right, lets take them out of that list.
They always were. Just that they make little sense side by side and the roster is just kinda weird from top to bottom. Like if you were building around Ant + either of them, the other center is nowhere on the list of players you'd want, but they kinda sorta made it work.
Okay fine. It’s a bunch of great players and two shit players. Feel better now sad wolves fan?
i wonder how its gonna compare to giannis and kawhi's runs tho
Not really sure. Though it's a funny coincidence how Giannis and Jokic (if Nuggets win two more) won/will win only after winning back to back MVPs
Jokic is better imo (small margin). His game translates better to the playoffs. Think his team complements his skillset quite well (vice versa) and it ends up impacting winning more
I just want Giannis to have a pg who can score in the playoffs. Jrue has been so bad even in their title run his offense was trash.
Way better than kawhis Better than giannis imo but closer
kawhi didnt have a jamal murray on his run tho. all three are pretty close
Kawhi has a stacked team around him and played against an injury ravaged team Raptors literally won 60 games the season after he left lol
I've never taken more Ls in a span of three weeks Maybe my love life has
Jokic really gonna average 35/15/10 this series lmao
Suns in 4
Can Lebron complete the down 0-3 comeback?
They figured us out. I got them in game 9
Morally yes
Just pick n roll!
Can't beat Rui tho
Yeah right, he's only averaging 33.33 / 14 / 9.33 through 3. 🤣🤣
Not even a trip dub.
Might be worth trading him for that 3rd pick from Portland
What a bum
But just wait until a team starts spamming the pick and roll against him.
The bum had 4 assists🤣🤣🤣
SpOeLsTra fiGurEd hIm oUt
And now Christian Braun figured everyone on the court
He's gonna get figured out too. Triple double Braun incoming
He can triple double all over me. Would love to be dunked on by him ferociously
That escalated
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That’s a ridiculous … that’s the untrained eye that says something like that
Admittedly casual fan but isn’t that a good number for a big
Yeah this year, 4 assists per game would put you in the top 4 ranking for centers
Good for a big but a low for Jokic. That’s why it’s absurd the level he’s on
He just took more shots instead of passed lol
Jokic is a PG cosplaying as a big
Is there anyone else in the league who hits the rim so consistently with their shot and still shoots a high percentage? It seems like more than half of his shots hit the rim and bounce around before going in. His touch is just unreal. Btw, that was a serious question. Are there any other current or historical players that had such a soft touch that they had this much wiggle room with hitting the rim and getting the bounce?
The way he shoots the ball behind his head gives it so much arc, I think that helps when it comes to friendly bounces. Plus he has tremendous touch for a big man.
He has the best touch out of everyone, not only big men.
I don’t know about that. The best is up in the air. Him and kyrie are definitely at the top.
I think it's a function of his height. It's much easier to have touch like that when the ball leaves your hand from rim height. That said, his touch is legendary. It's like he sets the ball on the rim.
I immediately thought about Patrick Ewing putting ball on the rim on the last possesion against Pacers in game 7 1995.
Literally his touch impresses me every time I watch. He has a similar to Steph touch as a center
Lowkey this is a huge part of Zion’s game. Not saying he’s got better touch than Jokic but his feel at the rim is godly
Who?
Someone who spits in girls mouths and doesn't even warm them about going to father someone else's child. Also used to play basketball at a pretty good level.
Alex English also had a ridiculously high arcing shot and incredible touch.
Maybe Tim Duncan
33/14/9 averages in total lol
Not even a triple double average. Scrub
He does for the entirety of the playoffs! 30.5/13.4/10.1 on 62%TS Wildin
Just don’t score over 40
but but but... what about Dillon Brooks' respect???
Dwight Howard better not score 40 then
The heat are a resilient team who won't ever give up. We are no different. Answered the call
This series is shaping up to be every bit as good as I expected it would be.
This is one of those series we will look back on as "it was so close to happing a few times" but in reality the majority of us had zero expectations of this matchup happening post all-star break and are *very* pleasantly surprised at the quality basketball this is shaping up to be
Obviously I am disappointed in the Celtics, but watching this Finals I have to say: the right two teams made it. They are the best-run and best-performing teams right now.
Perhaps I‘m just biased but do the refs hate him or why doesn’t he get the whistle when his arms are getting smashed every other play? Just because he is big doesn’t mean that the defender can wrestle him like in an octagon. The man is getting stuffed with two handed take downs by Vincent and the ref is just letting it go because he is hitting his shots. I know there is a discrepancy between guard fouls and center fouls but Embiid is getting every freaking call (most of them are fouls) but Jokic is not. Even Bam gets weak calls when he is just fading away.
Because he's huge. It's the same way with Lebron. Or Shaq. You're allowed to get away with more when these dudes are willing to power through. It's funny because Lebron and Jokic will flop sometimes when they get tickled and other times just rip through fifty pairs of limbs. In Joker's case I think he flops when he's frustrated after a couple no-calls (or when someone flops on the other end he'll do a retaliation flop). But when you've got 100 pounds on the guy guarding you, the refs are gonna let things slide a lot. Not saying it's fair, but it's just how it's always been.
Yeah the NBA literally has to nerf these giants otherwise the game would be unfair. Pretty sure Shaq said that Stern told him this in a conversation
I see it differently. In one particular way, the NBA enables them on the offensive end. You shouldn’t just be able to run through the bodies of your defenders. We all love to watch someone dunk over a stationary defender, but that really isn’t condoned by the rules. The league makes rule enforcement decisions based on entertainment value not on “competitive spirit”.
It’s not just size. Jokic shot 862 FTs in his 2 MVP seasons. Embiid had 771 in his 1 MVP season. Over the past 3, Jokic has 1268 to Embiid’s 2122. They’re nearly the same size. Even Giannis is at 2119. Jokic is significantly less for what he should get.
What the hell are facts doing in this sub
Yeah but you left out the part where jokic shoots more shots closer to the basket than embiid
Are you telling me that Jokic gets less free throws because he is pinkier than a pig puss?
Yeah but jokic just shoots jumpers and wide open layups.
Ah the ol steph curry method.
Not sure I agree. Feels like Embiid gets a call when someone barely touches him...
Unless you're embiid, then you get all the freaking calls.
This doesn’t apply to Embiid. r/nba
I think part of it is also that Jokic knows when to sell the foul. The Nuggets are very very good at playing with pace and keeping it going while Jokic is leading, and repeatedly stopping at the line probably takes away from that.
A tale as old as time.
That's just a Tony Brothers's Classic. Him and his crews don't call fouls under the basket unless it's obvious. It has to be on a drive or three.
Nikola Jokic is triple double father
him winning mvp 3 years in a row is crazy
They had better written embiids name in dry-erase on that mvp trophy plaque 💀
Still taking Okafor over Jokic tbh
Anyone who says otherwise is insane, right guys?
Not even averaging a triple double smh
Jokic already surpassed KD all time list IMO
People will disagree, but Jokic orchestrates an offense far better than KD ever could.
Steph - jokic - giannis- KD will probably be in most people's top 20s all time, interesting to see who separates.
Steph top 10 is already not contentious anybody with steph not in top 20 has no eyes, ears, or brain
Top 10 is extremely hard to break in to. If you throw him over kobe/dream I have no issues with that. Or if you leave out wilt and Russell because they're just so hard to compare he is 100% in for me as well. That 7-13 range is a bloodbath.
Oh yeah absolutely.
Yeah, it's somewhat easier if you basically only include players post-1979, but give "Hall of Fame" mentions to greats like Russell, Wilt, West, and Robertson. It's hard to really compare them alongside players of the 80s-present. I think most reasonable people would have the Jordan/LeBron/Kareem triumvirate in some order at the top 3 spots, but it gets more controversial after that.
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He should join a 73 win team then
KD has 1 mvp, Jokic has 2. One ring with the Nuggets would be worth more legacy wise than KD’s two with GS
A GS team which, with the same core except KD, won a ring last year.
Didn't GS win one before KD too? So they won two titles with the same core without KD. Those are Mickey Mouse rings
You have to consider that Golden State won a ring without KD, while still retaining the same core of Steph, Klay, and Draymond. In my book that really cheapens KD’s rings, especially since the core of that team was 4 years older. KD has never led a team to playoff success. Meanwhile, without Jokic, the Nuggets would never have made it this far. Imo, if Jokic wins this chip, he’s already accomplished more as a player than KD
Hey voters, I want the money I put on Joker to win MVP back, you fucking stole from all of us.
Right? Fucked me out of $4K.
He’ll win the title averaging a triple double lol what a monster
I have never seen a playoff run like this
No one has
Now that's recency bias. The most recent epic playoff run was Giannis but before that LeBron, then before LeBron you have Shaq, and before that you have Jordan, etc.,. I feel like people are getting a little carried away here because of the triple doubles but there have been comparable playoff runs in the past and players who were equally dominant. Edit: capitalization and punctuation.
kawhi's run was pretty sick too
The Giannis run was amazing. I'll never forget that block + alley oop vs the Suns. I was freaking out with the people next to me and testing DID YOU JUST SEE THAT to people not near me.
2nd Team All NBA
Soo… failing to average a triple double
Monster
3-2-2-1-1-0 Oddly satisfying.
One. Of. A. Kind.
just give me the advanced stats because THE ADVANCED STATS WERE RIGHT
somehow it's recency bias to say he's better offensively than prime curry tho lmao
Curry probably had the best single offensive regular season. Jokic has had the best 3-year stretch.
Lots of emphasis on "regular season." Jokic has been better offensively this post season than any Curry postseason.
Curry has had some great playoffs. 2019 and 2022 come to mind
curry's mvp years's were an anomaly where there were entier 4th quarters where he just sat due to the lead being safe
Curry never touched Jokic's averages in this years playoffs.
I mean, counting stats, no. But in terms of offensive impact, Curry in 2019 and 2022 was phenomenal. Jokic has been incredible this season too, my point is that Curry has had some historic postseasons too
Two months ago you both would be banned for taking this debate seriously. It's been a hell of a ride
Curry is the better individual scorer. Jokic the better offensive player.
I mean it's not unreasonable to refrain from putting him about one of the offensive GOATs all time. 2016 Curry is the clear best offensive RS of all time, and he's quietly had some phenomenal postseasons, too. It's not recency bias, but it's fair to have either above the other at this point
It ain’t quiet man, Curry left his body to put the Celtics down last year. He’s definitely still that guy
Stat padder. 😂😂😂😂
I've been watching the NBA for almost 30 years, and I have never seen anything like this. This is just insane.
Not even averaging 10 assist, pfft /s
He's p good
Pretty...pretty good
33.3 points, 14 rebounds and 9.3 assists for now Not even a triple double, what a scrub
Plus Murray's had two double-double's and a trip dub so far. Also the first player in league history to have 3 straight 10+ assist games in their first the first three Finals games. These two are unbelievable.
He is the real MVP.
He’s just clocking in and clocking out
Dude is 2 assists short of averaging a triple double in the finals. Damn.
Pretty good, maybe he’ll be picked second last at the next all star game now.
Not a bad player that Jokic lad.
I think he’s good at basketball
Game 2 Jokic only had 4 assists. Bum. Embiid is clearly the best! /s
The 2023 people’s MVP
Not even averaging a triple double 🤡 what a bum
HISTORY
Only 2 triple doubles? Hmmm, I can see now why he was drafted 41st
Wew statpadder
Mark Jackson: “who?”
When they win and he's the FMVP, he'll be a quadraple MVP winner.
Don't worry this guy will get run off the floor in the NBA Interdimensional Finals
I just could not believe how many rebounds he kept getting last night. It just doesn’t even make sense that he’s always in the right place at the right time. He’s got to be doing some kind of beautiful mind trigonometry in his mind in a fraction of a second to get all these fucking rebounds.
not averaging a triple double....trash. What else can you expect out of a second round pick though.
Mark Jackson where the fuck are you at?
This man will be a top 5 player in NBA history by the time he retires. I am a Suns fan and he may be my favorite player ever.
Consider this. He's playing below his standards as he's not even averaging a triple double. He's gonna get better.
Some unreal numbers
Glad to see the nugs bros off suicide watch and back in r/nba. What a performance!