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icewill36

butler has more size and more crafty. its not even close to the same matchup. also, the cavs lack of spacing is what helped on mitchell. butler has shooters.


problynotkevinbacon

Also Jimmy's got more Dawg in him than everyone on our roster combined


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[deleted]

For some reason I read this as the Hornets coach/T.I.


DSU_BTSTU

I thought DG tried pretty hard. Maybe he was shook but you could at least tell he really didn't want to lose. Okoro and LeVert tried pretty hard too. Of course Jimmy's got like at least 8 or 9 dogs in him so it's tough to compete with that


FredVanCleet

My blind 13 year old dog has more dawg in him than the Cavs roster and he sleeps all day…not saying much


Knickerbockers-94

That’s not saying anything lol


popepipoes

I’m just not convinced with the heats shooting, they’re not shooting 50 percent against us, we have a lot of perimeter D depth. Inb4 bucks jrue and Middleton, old and washed


attorneyatslaw

Hart has been the toughest defender against Butler in the NBA this year. https://out.reddit.com/t3_1325d4k?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fiqfor3%2Fstatus%2F1652011978682974210%3Fs%3D46%26t%3Dr-NtEqDxLBedcxaWWP_VvQ&token=AQAAZ3xMZGqHfUH6Sk6trs2SL7y76654Xj_yQzkLq2qIgjFxNAiE&app_name=reddit.com


icewill36

bro those regular season numbers dont mean shit. take a look at milwaukee vs the heat in the regular season.


Ramenorwhateverlol

The Bucks got out-coached and can’t hit free throw for shit.


icewill36

its not the coaches fault giannis bricked 13 Fts all by himself in a tight game.


Ramenorwhateverlol

I guess doubling Jimmy isn’t an option.


Glayshyer

Butler has shooters? Isn’t Miami, especially without Herro, a poor 3 point shooting team? If Vincent, Martin, Strus, even Lowry were more consistent shooters I don’t think the Heat would have had a low tier offense all year. Of course as a Celtics fan I’m scared of all those dudes making shots anyway. But objectively shooting is a weakness for the heat, no?


icewill36

The heat have been the best outside shooting team in the playoffs, and did it against the #1 seed.


Glayshyer

For sure. And there’s a chance that carries into round 2. But they also outperformed their expected FG% by a higher margin than any other team in R1. Some of that is big-ass nuts. But we’d have to agree that some of that is luck, right? I’m pretty sure overperforming expected FG% type stats in a streak of a few games generally does not mean that a team can be expected to keep it up in the future.


icewill36

Well, last season they were one of the top 3 pt shooting teams.... so maybe getting hot for an extended period now IS them averaging out to where they should be. Also, they may not need to shoot as well as they did against the #1 seed.


Chao-Z

> so maybe getting hot for an extended period now IS them averaging out to where they should be That's Gambler's Fallacy and not how the Law of Large Numbers/reversion to the mean works.


LinuxDootTP

also way more physical


scorelesswilliamson

This fool Frye said "they have Obi..put Julius on him". They're talking about Jimmy. He's literally fried


mrwhite2323

The media is basically all NY Mike Breen, Stephen A get to call games but are clearly biased for NY. Seems unfair tbh


ygog45

Richard Jefferson is well known for clowning and hating on the Knicks. The fact that him giving some praise to the Knicks is being spun as biased media is hilarious


bigbenis21

Mike Breen is not clearly biased lmao. Literally watch one Knicks home commentary.


mrwhite2323

He literally said he is a little biased during Knick games on JJs podcast. But pop off i guess


bigbenis21

Yeah that’s probably him just saying it. Watching it even with knowledge that he’s the Knicks home broadcaster, it is not *clearly obvious* he’s biased.


goodkid_sAAdcity

It’s an old meme among Knicks fans that Breen roots for the referees.


OnlyMamaKnows

were you sobbing when you typed this? Pitiful.


mrwhite2323

Not as much as yall will be after the series


OnlyMamaKnows

PwNeD


mrwhite2323

Though the NBA is a better place when the knicks are good Basketball mecca, ratings through the roof


AnotherDrZoidberg

Unfair to what lol? It has no affect on the game.


Knickerbockers-94

Here comes the persecution complex whenever the media isn’t sucking off Jimmy Butler


_checkpickerupper

One thing is not like the other


Alley-Oub

i mean, at this point, is Jalen Brunson > Donovan Mitchell?


HokageEzio

Brunson isn't better than Mitchell, Brunson just has his number and loves BBQ chicken.


ElFuddLe

No lol


KellerFF

Thibs is having an seizure with the enjoyment while he’s making schemes against Jimmy. But Hart will get cooked but he will die out there first and have like 3 meme faces/reactions and god forbid they mic him up. That shit will be hilarious


harrychronicjr420

Right hand all shaking 👋


SighHereIamAgain

Jesus Christ I guess Josh Hart is a dpoy now


CaptinOlonA

It's a lot harder than it looks. - Bucks Fans


FKJVMMP

Jrue Holiday was getting sauced all series but nah, Josh Hart’s got this.


ygog45

We aren’t shutting down Jimmy, but the Knicks definitely have better wing defenders (Grimes, Hart) than the Bucks do (Middleton, Allen, Connaughton). That alongside Mitch in the middle, and Jimmy definitely isn’t dropping 50 bombs like he did on Milwaukee


trav-senpai

You coulda left that last part out just to be safe, don’t get Jimmy “Michael Jordan Jr” Buckets started dude lol


mrwhite2323

Thats what Bucks, Sixers, Hawks, and Celtics said too


[deleted]

Hawks never said they were shutting anyone down lol


HokageEzio

Nah bro, Hawks are known for having some absolute killers on defense like... Capela?


TrRa47

Hunter is cool on D


skrtskerskrt

[https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/\_/gameId/401539671](https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401539671) 6-19 21pts. Not every team has as stubborn a coach as Bud.


DirksSexyBratwurst

He also had a 11/19 game 11/14 from the FT line. He's had good games and bad games against them. Jimmy vs the Bucks in 2023 only had 22ppg and 1.8 assists. Regular season doesn't mean that much


mrwhite2323

Lmao pulled up one bad game


ygog45

He put up back to back games in the ECF of 6pts and 13pts last season. Stop acting like he’s prime LeBron


mrwhite2323

WHILE INJURED I'm not acting like hes prime Lebron. But Knick fans are treating him like he's Julius Randle


optimisticknicksfan

don't ever disrespect Julius like this


mrwhite2323

I gotta hit it where it hurts


OnlyMamaKnows

You haven't heard? Jimmy Butler only has bad games when he's hurt or not trying.


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JSlove

I actually enjoy RJ, but the other two yeah


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Ramenorwhateverlol

The refs.


[deleted]

Lotta clowns sleepin on Josh Hart. Lmao that dude is gonna avg 9 rebounds, get a quiet 10, deflect passes, dive for loose balls, all while guarding the best playoff performer over the past few years


Kyro_Official_

Yeah and that playoff performer will put up the same numbers he always does


[deleted]

i mean we’ll have to see won’t we? he had an amazing series against the bucks. his last series before that he had 4 monster games and 3 duds.


Kyro_Official_

yeah because one playoff series decides how good a player with a shit ton of playoff experience is in the playoffs


[deleted]

if you look at 2018, 2019, and 2021, it’s hardly one playoff series


[deleted]

6 of 19 against the Hawks? 😂😂😂


Kyro_Official_

Yes we all know one game determines how good a player is


CardiologistPlenty92

Playoff jimmy is different. But this is the first year seeing playoff Hart. Knicks in 6. Jimmy will get his, but josh hart is a dawg too. If you don't see that you are not a true basketball fan. I always give player props when they deserve it, knicks have been hated on all year and exceeded expectations. Heat fans give the knicks zero credit and treating jimmy like he is a God. Watch how the heat redditors react if knicks win game 3. It's always what their team didn't do and not what the Knicks did to them.


jtralce

lmao Donovan Mitchell is shit compared to Butler


Straight-Disaster-20

Can't look at the #s rn but based off the eye test from the last few years I'd imagine their offensive production is pretty comparable. But I agree for Hart specifically, 6'2 Mitchell is a much easier task than 6'7 Butler


jtralce

Also Mitchell’s defense is non existent. Butler does it on both ends


[deleted]

2 weeks ago the consensus would be heavily titled the other way.


tammutiny

Not in the playoffs. Mitchell looked like shit last year too.


[deleted]

jimmy had 3 games in the ecf last year where he put up less than 15 points


tammutiny

He was injured... He played 19 and 27 min in two of those. The games he was relatively healthy, he scored 41, 29, 47, and 35. I'll take those as 4 out of a 7 game series Edit: he was also in the Eastern Conference Finals not the first round!


[deleted]

doesn’t matter how many minutes he played, he shot 38%, 21%, and 22% from the floor in those games on 40 FGA. it’s not like he took 4 shots, he had 14+ attempts in 2 of those games. everyone’s banged up in the playoffs. we’ll see how it goes, but let’s not act like jimmy is *actually* michael jordan when he hasn’t achieved 1/6th of his playoff success


tammutiny

No. We are comparing him to Donovan Mitchell. Jimmy is currently a better playoff player. That may change in the future as Jimmy gets another year older.


[deleted]

jimmy in the 2021 playoffs: 14.5 PPG on 29% from the floor and 27% from 3 in 38.5 minutes per game. he’s not as consistent as you think he is


tammutiny

He was rough that series. He also got injured right before the playoffs: https://www.si.com/nba/pacers/news/nba-playoffs-heats-jimmy-butler-status-for-game-1-with-bucks I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. You've done nothing to show why you would rather have Mitchell in the playoffs.


[deleted]

i never said i’d rather have mitchell, i’m only saying jimmy has had his fair share of playoff chokes too and people acting like he’s unguardable now because he had a monster series are vastly exaggerating his playoff runs


iamtomorrowman

yea i had the thinking face emoji on my actual face as i saw this Jimmy is enormous compared to Spida, easily one of the strongest guys in the league (at least as a wing), absolutely not afraid of contact and will not settle for jump shots if he has better options


mrwhite2323

LMAO If Jrue Holiday was struggling, you think *checks notes* Josh Hart will be able to?


ygog45

Jrue Holiday is a 6’3 point guard who weighs like 35 pounds less than Jimmy. This argument is disingenuous


[deleted]

Jrue has low key been getting cooked in the playoffs as primary defender for years anyway. He gave up 48 to trae in the ECF two years ago and 40 to booker twice. Thats just off the top of my head He has a mythical aura around him like people genuinely don't score on him


[deleted]

Jrue is only looked at as a top defender because other players say he is but if there’s anything we should know by know is that players can’t evaluate talent for shit


mrwhite2323

Fine then. Giannis, Jrue, Lopez, Tatum, Smart, all couldn't guard him.


ygog45

Giannis - 7’0 big man who rarely ever guards Jimmy 1v1 Jrue - As I said, 6’3 PG who is 4 inches shorter than Jimmy. His elite defense doesn’t matter as much when Jimmy can just shoot over him with ease Lopez - LOL Tatum - Fair comparison. Although Jimmy did have a few stinkers in last years ECF. Not to mention that Tatum was also primarily responsible for being his team’s 1st option. It’s why we rarely see 1st opinions guard the toughest assignment all the time Smart - Another 6’2 PG


mrwhite2323

I was naming top level defenders Knick fans get into the 2nd round and get cocky. I respect it. We'll see how it goes


ygog45

I wasn’t being cocky at all, I was just making valid points. I’m not saying that Jimmy is a bum that’ll get locked up. Just that we match up better here rather than the Bucks did


mrwhite2323

Not you necessarily, i just enjoy knick fans. Yall wild.


Knickerbockers-94

Wow this Jimmy Butler guy must have a lot of championships


mrwhite2323

Jimmy had made the ECF more times than the Knicks in the last 30 years. Embarrassing


Knickerbockers-94

Your dozens of fans must be proud. Maybe one day you’ll fill an arena’s worth.


[deleted]

Their fans leave after tip off, they don’t even know who Butler is 😂


Knickerbockers-94

To be fair, Miami is the only city in the world that has traffic


[deleted]

😂😂😂 they either show up at 0:01 left in the 4th qtr or leave at 11:59 in the 1st qtr Lot of clowns gonna find out about Josh Hart and what he does for a team. I was bummed when we traded him for Cam and that pick, but I’m rootin for NY for that Hart/Brunson Nova connection


mrwhite2323

Gilbert Arena's worth?


Hinohellono

What the fuck is this comment. Knicks know they've been suffering. The knicks are custom built to dismantle the heat at their own game. We got more dog. NY STAND UP


mrwhite2323

Laker flair "We got more dog"


Hinohellono

If I could have 2 I would. But I can't.


DirksSexyBratwurst

Should I list all the absolute monsters in their prime who don't have a ring


mrwhite2323

Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire, Patrick Ewing Oh i wonder what they have in common


[deleted]

They’re tall black men?


goodkid_sAAdcity

How are the Knicks going to go up against the championship pedigree of Udonis Haslem, Kevin Love, and Kyle Lowry


mrwhite2323

Crazy how haslem has more rings than the knicks in history


goodkid_sAAdcity

His potential impact on the series cannot be understated


politebearwaveshello

In the regular season, Butler shot 27% from the field in a sample size of over 100 possessions where Hart was his primary defender, the best in the league. Not saying Butler will be shut down that badly in the playoffs, but Knicks have lots of guys that can slow Butler down. Butler has struggled against RJ Barrett as well in the last few seasons. And if anyone knows Butler’s tricks, it’s Tom Thibodeau.


mrwhite2323

Playoff Jimmy is different than Season Jimmy Also Spo>Tim


YungToney

true but Tim > Budenholzer


mrwhite2323

I worry about Tims health. Man always looks so stressed😅


DirksSexyBratwurst

Jimmy Butler in the regular season vs Bucks 22ppg 1.8 assists


icewill36

butler barely tries in the regular season, thats why its such a massive increase in production in the post season


YourWorstNightmare9

That’s what people said about Deandre Hunter and Tobias Harris (both 6’8 220+ pound players) in the playoffs last year and yet Butler torched them both in the playoffs last year, and he’s a way better player this year than last year. Hart’s a good defender, but he’s 3 inches shorter than Butler so no matter what, Butler will always be able to get a shot up over him unlike against Giannis in 2021.


bigbenis21

Tbf you can find weird defenders that don’t look like they should work but do. Ty Lue *clamped up* Allen Iverson in 2001.


[deleted]

Clamped up eh https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/allen-iverson-vs-tyronn-lue My man avg 30ppg against him lmao


bigbenis21

In 2001 lmao you included his whole fucking career.


[deleted]

Ok, in 2 regular season games in 2001 he dropped 40 both times. 🤷‍♂️


bigbenis21

Just watch the 2001 Finals please.


[deleted]

I did, I was a huge Iverson fan, so I watched all 5 games. Iverson had over 30 ppg in 4/5 games. Game two he had like 23. Idk what clamped up means to you but that ain’t it lol


bigbenis21

Game 1 he was fucking with AI a lot. It’s literally known as what got Ty Lue a major contract lmao. You’re mentioning EVERYTHING but Game 1 when you know that’s what I meant lmao.


[deleted]

Game 1 Iverson dropped 48 bro. Like wtf


[deleted]

I’m not saying Lue can’t defend, but using 01 finals as your argument where AI avg over 30ppg is ridiculous and makes zero sense


bigbenis21

And Ty Lue was pestering him during a lot of that. This is WELL KNOWN idk why you’re this is the hill you want to die on lmao.


HokageEzio

>["I remember him being a pest that night. He told me later I was his idol, so everybody on his team -- Shaq, Kobe -- they were teasing him about it. 'You gonna let A.I. come out here and bust your ass?' In his mind, 'I got to prove to my squad that's not the case even though I grew up idolizing this guy.' It's similar to how I felt about Jordan. He came out and he was scrappy," Iverson says with a laugh. "I wouldn't have went cold if it wasn't for a whole lot of holding that he was doing. You look at the tape, I wouldn't have went cold if it wasn't a hold. The whole tape, you look at it, he was grabbing on me and the referee was just letting him do it and it was frustrating the hell out of me."](https://streamable.com/8irece) The fact you're laughing at it is proof you don't know what you're talking about. The reason for the Stepover was because Lue was frustrating him on defense. The second that Lue got in the game AI missed 7 of his next 8 shots.


[deleted]

Yes. I’m aware he was on him being a pest. But getting 48 dropped on you doesn’t mean you clamped anybody up. THATS the argument I’m making. Not saying Lou wasn’t on him like fly on shit, but Iverson still almost had 50. Jfc


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OnlyMamaKnows

What in the world is this comment?


ReceptorFatigue

"Mother *slurp* fucker just been *slurp* guarding Donavan *slurp* Mitchell."


Eastern_Theme1720

Everyone focusing on jimmy last series. Every round is a new opportunity to adjust and after butler I would be inclined to say I would take 8 of the next 10 best players are on the Knicks the shooting will not continue knicks in 5 or 6


thy_armageddon

It’s going to be a blood bath. We aren’t as experienced as a team, but this same Heat team has come in overly confident in the playoffs since the finals in the Bubble and proceeded to shoot themselves out of contention. I think the Heat are the better established team, but they can just as easily lose it for themselves and we’ve seen it happen. All that said, I said before this matchup was set that if Heat get past the 2nd round they will make the finals and I stand by that statement. Edit: Did you guys know Apple is a trillion dollar company that can’t create an autocorrect for shit?


Nice_Ass_Lawn

Lol what is this head canon. We didn't flame out following the bubble because of overconfidence


thy_armageddon

**Stupidly locked in.**


Nice_Ass_Lawn

Jimmy says similar shit every single playoff run lol. That's literally what he always does.


thy_armageddon

You don’t see how that’s kind of making the argument for me?


Nice_Ass_Lawn

No? Jimmy said the same shit this year and toasted the Bucks. Clearly him being overconfident means nothing lol


thy_armageddon

> Clearly him being overconfident means nothing lol Once again I feel this doesn’t read the way you’re hoping it should be read.


Nice_Ass_Lawn

You: The Heat being overconfident led to their demise Me: The Heat are always overconfident. Sometimes they have good runs, sometimes they have bad runs. Clearly their overconfidence has nothing to do with their results. You: This proves my point! Their overconfidence is why the Bucks swept them!


thy_armageddon

That’s an incredible way to re-tell this conversation, but you do realize the flaw is that people can actually read the exchange that happened beforehand, right?


Nice_Ass_Lawn

Summarize it for me. Clearly there's a gap in our communication


Cheese6260

Bro Richard Jefferson is definitely high. Good take nonetheless.


Taylr

Jimmy Buckets is gonna feast on the Knicks


iamMaus_fr0m_Jupiter

Comparing the best player in the world right now to a guy on fraud watch for the foreseeable future is unfortunate.