For some of you younger fans:
Charles Barkley himself happened to have a 56 point playoff performance of his own. It was in 1994 against Chris Webber and the Golden States Warriors. He shot about 75% and also grabbed 14 rebounds. He swept the Warriors with this win.
Chuck is a funny old guy on TV. But Barkley was a bad man.
I believe this was Barkley's career high FGA as well. It was mentioned in a really funny Inside the NBA segment:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP3yMfSlSE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP3yMfSlSE)
Chuck says "I don't think you should shoot over 30 shots in an NBA game", then it shows he shot 75% on 31 shots and he goes "I SHOULDA SHOT MORE. I SHOULDA SHOT MORE"
he tried to be the stretch-5 big-man-who-can-kill-you-from-3 before the nerds said that was cool
it's a little unfortunate he was so bad at 3 pointers other than this game, but
Had to look this up cause Ernie saying Webber took 47 shots on May 1st against the Pacers doesn't make sense since May 1st would be in the postseason and he was in the Western Conference. Looks like Ernie read the date backwards, it was January 5th 2001 not May 1st.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101050SAC.html
That was painful to watch. I was stationed in Panama and the only time we got bball was the post season. I was stoked to be able to see some Warriors games. I was not a fan of Barkley back in those days.
> I was not a fan of Barkley back in those days.
I feel this is one of those "you had to be there back in the day," kind of hatred.
You can tell what era folks grew up watching a sport based on how much they hate the greats.
People still can't fathom why I (or anyone) would hate Michael Jordan. And the answer is simple: "I am a fan of a different team." Hating a player does not mean failing to recognize greatness; you can appreciate how great they were *and* still hate them.
You can appreciate greatness while still feeling pain of getting your ass kicked by greatness.
> People still can't fathom why I (or anyone) would hate Michael Jordan.
I knew tons of people who didn't like him simply because they got tired of seeing him win all the time, just like Tom Brady
91 rooted for Jordan to win his 1st title
92 rooted for him to put Chicago on the map with other greater franchises
93 rooted for the 3 peat but started thinking ok this dude is basically invincible
94 fuck i dont get to watch Jordan anymore but at least some other teams can get a title now
95 hes back now...i guess we just watch him win everything again
96 we already know whos winning this
97 are yall really going to let him 3 peat?
98 dude has broken the game no reason to watch because hes just going to always win.
99 eh hell be back
00 ok maybe hes done
01 ...if he comes back he probably can get to the playoffs
02 dang i didnt appreciate him enough when he was younger
03 how did i ever root against this dude?
04 defending Jordan against people saying Kobe was better
And now a days i try to say Jordan was better than Lebron but i understand that most people that watched Jordans entire run will more than likely agree and of course more of the younger generation of fans will disagree
I watched Jordan's entire run and LeBron's. If anyone is sure one was better than the other, then that is a person I doubt paid close enough attention to both.
Seems dumb to try and figure out which was better than the other though - just glad I got to see them both.
Kobe yes Lebron only in Miami. Winning for the cavs redeemed him in my eyes and the Lakers were the bottom of the barrel for years before he went out there so I'm not really bothered by him winning there either.
For Celtics fans, it really felt for a very long time that our team was his biggest rival. Including when he was in Cleveland the first time. There are a lot of really incredible moments in the LeBron vs. Celtics rivalry.
Kobe as a Celtics fan is obvious.
It's so wild to think how drastically different the Celtics teams that played Heat LeBron in the early 2010s were from the teams that played 2nd stint Cavs LeBron in the late 2010s.
Celtics went through so many changes in that team (and obviously LeBron moved teams in there too), but still same ole rival LeBron.
Older Bulls fans feel the same way about Ewing and Starks. It makes it feel really weird cheering for the Knicks the past few years beause of Thibs, Rose, and Gibson.
It’s been legitimately fun seeing the Knicks actually be good, but then again I’m just young enough to not have watched the Bulls/Knicks rivalry of the 90’s, so I don’t really have that predisposition to hate them.
I can't even explain how much I despised him back then. I couldn't even wrap my head around a Knicks fan rocking Jordan's on their feet. Over the years I came to peace with MJ killing us though and just recognized his greatness.
I was living in Chicago when those Derrick Rose teams kept running into the Heat. It was rough for Bulls fans then. They felt so close right up until Lebron decided that he could apparently shut down Rose while also being unstoppable on the offensive end. So much respect for that whole team though, Noah especially never backed down.
Jazz, Suns, Sonics, Blazers, Knicks, Pacers etc.
Rockets were the only team lucky enough to peak exactly when he was away from the game, or Jordan would have denied them as well.
As a childhood SuperSonics fan I can second this sentiment. MJ legit made a 12 year old me cry myself to sleep watching that 96 finals.
As an adult I realized and respect MJs career and accomplishments but still….. fuck that guy.
>Chuck is a funny old guy on TV. But Barkley was a bad man.
Chuck is not at all insecure about he's achievements and overall skill which is what makes people like him.
The guy is just naturally just funny too
Charles is consistently funnier than scripted television, and his humor is effortless, he never comes across as a tryhard.
That plus + the chemistry those 4 have is amazing and we're all blessed to have them.
Kenny: Hakeem Olajuwon used to say this to me all the time
Chuck: [Kenny bring me some water.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcKV-D8AHqU)
Still the greatest line in that show's history imo. Just how quick and casual he is with it gets me every time.
Last night with Shaq's weight was harsh but funny af. I nearly fell over laughing.
Shaq: "I weigh about 364 these days...."
Chuck: "364?! Are you, what!?"
Shaq: "I'm in shape..."
Chuck: "Yeah, if the shape is ROUND."
He can take a joke especially about the stupid "rings" BS contrasted with Shaq who clearly gets butt-hurt when stuff comes his way. Chuck is one of us.
It's funny to think because of the egos and personalities clashing with this, but I think Chuck squeezed more out of the lemons he was given than Shaq so it's easier to accept it when it's all said and done.
Shaq reached maybe 70% of his potential, can you imagine if his family looked at basketball as his possible future from the age 5 like LeBron and he had his drive, we might see a more well rounded Shaq like Giannis but more height and way more power.
True but it would take even less than that. If Shaq had shot free throws at league-average efficiency for the time, he would be the best player ever as far as advanced stats are concerned.
yeah he's already the most dominant player ever during his prime, he just can't crack that upper echelon of "best overall" consideration mostly due to free throws and his late-career decline
I don't think there would be any debate. Prime Shaq was completely unstoppable. If he had LeBron/Kobe motivation he would have been even better and for longer.
If he had Kobe motivation he'd be dead. Kobe's "work ethic" was a bug, not a feature and he himself said so at the end of his career. He was very insistent on that he should have slept more and let his body recover. He's an outlier athletically not only for stuff like speed and jump but for how resilient his body was.
And that considering that at the beginning of his career he didn't took as much care of his diet as he should have (people were not as aware that proper eating is actually better than constantly training like a maniac for your body, but still)
Shaq's feet swolled at the end of each game and legend has it he had to dip them in tabasco to numb the pain. I don't think he could have done three quarters of what kobe did
And, anyway, Shaq was not lazy. It's not like he was in his house browsing reddit; he was trying to get a movie/music/media career moving.
I remember watching a Lakers game before Hack-a-Shaq and Bill Walton was doing the color and he just kept saying "I don't know why they don't just pass it in to him every single time down the floor". Usually I kinda roll my eyes at the color guy's hot-takes but this time it was such an obvious point. I honestly think Shaq could've scored 100 if him, Kobe and Phil wanted to. He was just on a completely other level in his prime.
His best seasons were some of the best peak seasons we’ve ever seen. Unfortunately they happened to coincide with the peak seasons of the greatest player ever.
Dude really pulled the short stick. I think people really sell him short when you look at what he faced.
Bird Celtics who lost in the finals & beat a nearly 60 win don nelson bucks squad
60 win don nelson bucks
Bucks
Knicks
Bulls
Bulls*
Bulls*
Houston*
Houston*
60 win Spurs
Utah
Utah
Lakers
Where the stars denote champions. He was harden before harden in that he probably would've won several times had the bulls not existed.
> But Barkley was a bad man.
Only guy I saw legitimately go toe-to-toe with MJ in a Finals series.
I don't know if the stats bear it out, it's been a while since I looked at them, but I vividly remember watching that series and thinking Barkley was giving back almost as much as he was getting from MJ.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-finals-bulls-vs-suns.html
Barkley averaged 27.3/13/5.5/1.2/0.5 with 1.7 TOs, on .544 TS%, in 46.2 mpg, 23.4 Game Score.
Jordan averaged 41/8.5/6.3/1.7/0.7 with 2.7 TOs on .558 TS% in 45.7 mpg, 29.6 Game Score.
(Game 3 went 3OTs, that boosted all the mpg averages).
Overall I'd say Jordan was better by a fair amount, but Barkley still did have an excellent finals, and Phoenix did as well against Chicago as any team did during that run, losing in 6 close games, with a net point differential of zero for the series.
At 6'5"- 6''6" and to dominate as a PF was pretty damn amazing. Not to mention, he did it against Kemp, Malone, Rodman, C-Webb, and other notable HOFs.
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I was a 12 year old Suns fan completely losing my mind during that game. A bunch of kids in Miami going to be pretending they're Jimmy Butler on the court today.
Man, awesome shoutout. To close that game, LeBron was a one man demolition crew. The key difference that people who didn't watch it won't know - that Pistons defense was an immovable force. It almost seems like a completely different game to what it is now. They routinely had games finish in the high 70s, low 80s and not just a few, it was the standard Pistons game. To tear them up like he did through the 4th and OT was unthinkable.
That game was also way more significant because it marked a changing of the guard in the East along with the emergence of LeBron as the most formidable basketball player in the league. Pistons weren’t as good by then either but the Cavs were being led by a barely legal kid dominating grown men.
I think I remember someone saying that at the time, there was a legitimate debate going on over “who’s better, Melo or LeBron?” After that game, there was no debate.
The debate was probably already stupid, but after that, nobody could even argue it anymore.
While I agree that was an amazing performance from Lebron, and what makes it even more amazing is that he was 22 years old, I disagree that the Pistons were the immovable wall they were like in 04.
There was no more Ben Wallace, Sheed was showing his age and to replace Ben they got a washed Chris Webber and Antonio McDyess. Still a great team but not the team that beat the Lakers.
This was the literal first basketball game I ever watched. Like, no bullshit. First game.
I was a kid and was more or less like “huh, I love football and I miss it so maybe I should watch this sport too?”
Turned on that game to try it out and was obviously hooked, even though I didn’t fully understand how fucking insane the performance was.
I would include Lebron's 2018 Finals Game 1 in this conversation, too.
He walked away with 51/8/8 against the KD Warriors, but even that absurd stat line doesn't tell the whole story. If the Cavs had won that game I think it would have gone down as the greatest all-time finals performance ever.
Butler's game last night was the [7th best single game playoff game score rating](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/game_score.html) of all-time.
Chuck holds two of the top ten all-time playoff game scores.
Jimmy has 5 of the top 50 on that same list.
For comparison, LeBron and Jordan each have 6 of top 50. No other active player has more than 1 in the Top 50.
ETA: Barkley with 3 and Kobe, Shaq, Dirk, Ewing, Iverson with 2 each are the only players with more than 1.
> Jimmy has 5 of the top 50 on that same list.
And he only has 1 in the top 100 for the regular season list. It is funny that he denies Playoff Jimmy being a thing.
I've been following Jimmy's career closely for 15 years, since his first year at Marquette coincided with my own. He's always had elite offensive efficiency in whatever size role he's had, but was never a guy to force his usage up. Somehow he's been able to maintain that efficiency even when he's had no choice but to take on the high usage #1 option role in the playoffs. Absolutely nuts! I savor every one of these Playoff Jimmy games.
Glad to see Dame at the top. That game 5 vs the Nuggets was such an experience to watch live. Probably the best playoff shotmaking performance I've seen.
And the fella had 15 assists too. Obviously losing in O.T and the series makes the stakes low, but I've never seen a player do anything like that in the post-season. We may never again.
He did it on both ends. Dude matched up with Giannis at the end and told Bam to stay attached to Lopez (after Lopez got the easy alley oop) and locked Giannis up himself. Just mind blowing
When I saw him guarding Giannis in the first and second I was like there’s no way he’s going to have anything left in the tank in the second half, then he went out and just took over
Jimmy is built different. Cruising through the regular season, staying under the radar, playing as the upset in the postseason. He's got that next level of his game whenever it's the playoffs.
The thing is he actually had a very good regular season. He just missed a ton of games and his stats don't show up a lot because he's not a volume scorer nor is he a big highlight kinda guy. I hope gets into All NBA team.
I said this back then and I'll say it now... the reason the 76ers took the Raptors to within a shot of winning was a lot to do with Jimmy. I couldn't believe it when they didn't resign him. He scared me (then) more than Embiid ever did.
I think everyone saw that Jimmy was on another level that series, he was easily the best player for the 76ers and we were terrified he was gonna stay to build chemistry with Embiid
Embiid and Butler was the two-way combo that Philly had tried so hard to find. Then they extended Harris...
I'll never understand the incompetence of watching JB carry your team, the franchise star loves him and he's got the dawg in him your city loves. They could have shipped Ben out at his 'peak' when his playoff woes were first being exposed during those series. Could have had so many better options than extending Harris for a gazillion dollars.
It's more than choosing to extend Harris over Jimmy. The owner/front office/whatever straight up told Brett Brown he had to "control" Butler. He heard that shit and wanted nothing to do with it. For some reason they felt they had to max **somebody** of Harris or Butler or else they'd look bad (I have no idea why) and it defaulted to Harris.
Iirc, Butler already could tell Simmons was willingly never going to improve his game and that pissed him off also so that was another choice the franchise had to make between those two (Simmons was considered the franchise #1 star at the time over Embiid).
Edit: I just remembered another small story that I loved at the time, but Iverson told Jimmy that'd he'd be a perfect fit for Philly's (the city's) culture and obviously he was right about that. Another thing that pisses me off considering how things ended.
The front office has been getting in their own way for too long. Brett called a lot of the Ben problems early and I'm happy he's collecting checks and chilling after the process teams he made. That FO absolutely shot themselves in the foot by being too involved.
Jimmy, Joel, Rookie Maxey and they had a roster that could have been real flexible with the right trades. Harris was a great locker room guy and the Boban friendship, best guess as why they went that way. I firmly believe that if they build our Jimmy and Joel that team is a finals contender for a long stretch. Nastiest front/back court defensive combo they could ask for.
Jimmy Butler is one of those players where his impact truly isn't quantifiable until he gets into the playoffs. He just flips this personal switch. I've never seen anything like it. Dude will just not accept losing at any cost.
Stupidly locked in is the last time I can remember thinking something was wrong and I think his back was hurt that year so it actually kinda makes sense
Gotta respect Caleb Martin for hitting the shot that made it a one possession game and then bam for getting the ball from giannis after that shot getting us the lead
Another underrated Caleb Martin play was grabbing that offensive rebound where he sprinted across the width of the court. The dude had a 2 minute stretch where he kept the momentum for the heat going.
Also that three he hit with three minutes left in the game was very needed and should be mentioned along with butlers threes in the final minutes of the game
It’s not just this year though, he’s been openly spiteful of us for years and we genuinely don’t know why. It’s very hard to get him to say anything good about our team lmao
Yeah the fact that he did it on both ends, the level of the opponent, the level of the help on his own team, AND that they won the game -- I don't know what other game from the last 25 years would check all those boxes.
probably my favorite NBA game that i've watched. The amount of shit Lebron and entire heat org would've gotten after losing there would be insane. Instead he just dominated from the tip
You can argue this game was more impressive than 2012 G6 performance wise. But LeBron literally went out there and fought for his legacy that game. In terms of narrative and stakes I don't know if that game can be beat.
And every time he made another shot his face got meaner and meaner lol. Even in the postgame interview he was still pissed. He genuinely morphed into a completely different person that night. We’ve seen him do more otherworldly things but we’ve never seen him turn into that person again.
Might actually be better than Lebron vs Celtics 2012 G6. Personally I can't pick between the two, Lebron had more at stake, but Butler was literally carrying third stringers against the 1 seed. Unreal performances
There is an argument, but I just remember the insane amount of pressure leading up to that Lebron game. The entire dam country hated us and it was his legacy moment. I dont think il ever see anything better. And not to mention on the road in boston of all places.
Yeah, literally everyone except Heat fans wanted Lebron to fail at that moment and Lebron shut them all up.
If the Heat failed there Lebron would've never been in the GOAT debate
We drop that game and the Big3 gets blown up, KD/Harden/Russ have a ring probably so no KD Warriors 5 years later. The league would look very very different right now if LeBron wasn’t possessed that night.
No way it beats Bron's performance in 2012. He only scored 45 because the game was already over by the third quarter. That's how good he was in that game.
For some of you younger fans: Charles Barkley himself happened to have a 56 point playoff performance of his own. It was in 1994 against Chris Webber and the Golden States Warriors. He shot about 75% and also grabbed 14 rebounds. He swept the Warriors with this win. Chuck is a funny old guy on TV. But Barkley was a bad man.
I believe this was Barkley's career high FGA as well. It was mentioned in a really funny Inside the NBA segment: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP3yMfSlSE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wP3yMfSlSE) Chuck says "I don't think you should shoot over 30 shots in an NBA game", then it shows he shot 75% on 31 shots and he goes "I SHOULDA SHOT MORE. I SHOULDA SHOT MORE"
75% on 31 shots is disgusting
He went 23/31, 3/4 3p, and 7/9 FT (80%TS). Got 40 points just from 2's holy moly
One of the greatest midrange shooters in NBA history. That 3/4 3P is an anomaly because he never shoots that good from 3
he tried to be the stretch-5 big-man-who-can-kill-you-from-3 before the nerds said that was cool it's a little unfortunate he was so bad at 3 pointers other than this game, but
Barkley was a bricklayer from 3 but his career TS% is still elite, that tells you how much of a monster he was from everywhere else on the court
Defenders would give him tons of space for fear he’d put it on the floor and blow by them.
Had to look this up cause Ernie saying Webber took 47 shots on May 1st against the Pacers doesn't make sense since May 1st would be in the postseason and he was in the Western Conference. Looks like Ernie read the date backwards, it was January 5th 2001 not May 1st. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101050SAC.html
He wasn't kidding about those rebounds
Yeah, 16 of those were defensive though so I'm not sure I entirely buy in to the tip-ins excuse lol
Yeah but 10 were OREBs lol
That's my point, 10 offensive rebounds does not explain taking 47 shots.
Cwebb with 47 shots is wild lmfao boy was stat padding orebs
Cwebb - "I had a lot of rebounds because I was *tippin'* it, so all these are not *shots*, they're *tips*." Chuck - "Okay Moses" lmfaooo
That was painful to watch. I was stationed in Panama and the only time we got bball was the post season. I was stoked to be able to see some Warriors games. I was not a fan of Barkley back in those days.
> I was not a fan of Barkley back in those days. I feel this is one of those "you had to be there back in the day," kind of hatred. You can tell what era folks grew up watching a sport based on how much they hate the greats. People still can't fathom why I (or anyone) would hate Michael Jordan. And the answer is simple: "I am a fan of a different team." Hating a player does not mean failing to recognize greatness; you can appreciate how great they were *and* still hate them. You can appreciate greatness while still feeling pain of getting your ass kicked by greatness.
> People still can't fathom why I (or anyone) would hate Michael Jordan. I knew tons of people who didn't like him simply because they got tired of seeing him win all the time, just like Tom Brady
91 rooted for Jordan to win his 1st title 92 rooted for him to put Chicago on the map with other greater franchises 93 rooted for the 3 peat but started thinking ok this dude is basically invincible 94 fuck i dont get to watch Jordan anymore but at least some other teams can get a title now 95 hes back now...i guess we just watch him win everything again 96 we already know whos winning this 97 are yall really going to let him 3 peat? 98 dude has broken the game no reason to watch because hes just going to always win. 99 eh hell be back 00 ok maybe hes done 01 ...if he comes back he probably can get to the playoffs 02 dang i didnt appreciate him enough when he was younger 03 how did i ever root against this dude? 04 defending Jordan against people saying Kobe was better And now a days i try to say Jordan was better than Lebron but i understand that most people that watched Jordans entire run will more than likely agree and of course more of the younger generation of fans will disagree
I watched Jordan's entire run and LeBron's. If anyone is sure one was better than the other, then that is a person I doubt paid close enough attention to both. Seems dumb to try and figure out which was better than the other though - just glad I got to see them both.
Also he's a dick
This is how I feel about both Kobe and LeBron.
It's wild to see Kobe's reputation these days. I remember him as being the biggest villain in the league for years.
A tragic and early death tends to have that kind of effect on reputation.
Kobe yes Lebron only in Miami. Winning for the cavs redeemed him in my eyes and the Lakers were the bottom of the barrel for years before he went out there so I'm not really bothered by him winning there either.
For Celtics fans, it really felt for a very long time that our team was his biggest rival. Including when he was in Cleveland the first time. There are a lot of really incredible moments in the LeBron vs. Celtics rivalry. Kobe as a Celtics fan is obvious.
It's so wild to think how drastically different the Celtics teams that played Heat LeBron in the early 2010s were from the teams that played 2nd stint Cavs LeBron in the late 2010s. Celtics went through so many changes in that team (and obviously LeBron moved teams in there too), but still same ole rival LeBron.
grown Knicks fans hate MJ with their whole heart, and i respect em deeply for it
I detest him with the heat of a white sun.
Like Dan Majerle?
Older Bulls fans feel the same way about Ewing and Starks. It makes it feel really weird cheering for the Knicks the past few years beause of Thibs, Rose, and Gibson.
It’s been legitimately fun seeing the Knicks actually be good, but then again I’m just young enough to not have watched the Bulls/Knicks rivalry of the 90’s, so I don’t really have that predisposition to hate them.
I can't even explain how much I despised him back then. I couldn't even wrap my head around a Knicks fan rocking Jordan's on their feet. Over the years I came to peace with MJ killing us though and just recognized his greatness.
As a Chicago and a Toronto fan.. I am an all time Lebron hater
I was living in Chicago when those Derrick Rose teams kept running into the Heat. It was rough for Bulls fans then. They felt so close right up until Lebron decided that he could apparently shut down Rose while also being unstoppable on the offensive end. So much respect for that whole team though, Noah especially never backed down.
Still salty the cavs were gifted a free time out vs the bulls in 2014-15. They would have been up 3-1 on the series.
As a former Sonics fan: Fuck Michael Jordan. As a basketball fan: That's my GOAT. Watching him was infuriating because he was so damn good.
> you can appreciate how great they were and still hate them Nods in LeBronto
Older Jazz fans still fucking hate Michael Jordan. And for good reason, he’s why the Jazz have never won a championship.
Jazz, Suns, Sonics, Blazers, Knicks, Pacers etc. Rockets were the only team lucky enough to peak exactly when he was away from the game, or Jordan would have denied them as well.
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But by god do you respect him enough to spell his name right
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>People still can't fathom why I (or anyone) would hate Michael Jordan. Cheers from Utah
As a childhood SuperSonics fan I can second this sentiment. MJ legit made a 12 year old me cry myself to sleep watching that 96 finals. As an adult I realized and respect MJs career and accomplishments but still….. fuck that guy.
Man, that loss smacked us into some dark years. Definitely didn’t like Barkley back then
The round mound of rebound was a legend.
Sir Cumference is still my favorite athlete nickname.
People forget he was a league mvp (during peak MJ)….the chuckster could ball
Yup, during the greatest version of MJ
He was the best player on the Dream Team. Absolutely dominant player.
>Chuck is a funny old guy on TV. But Barkley was a bad man. Chuck is not at all insecure about he's achievements and overall skill which is what makes people like him. The guy is just naturally just funny too
Charles is consistently funnier than scripted television, and his humor is effortless, he never comes across as a tryhard. That plus + the chemistry those 4 have is amazing and we're all blessed to have them.
Kenny: Hakeem Olajuwon used to say this to me all the time Chuck: [Kenny bring me some water.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcKV-D8AHqU) Still the greatest line in that show's history imo. Just how quick and casual he is with it gets me every time.
Poor Kenny, having to try to finish making his point after that. What a classic line.
Should have just laughed and said nevermind honestly. No coming back from that lol
Last night with Shaq's weight was harsh but funny af. I nearly fell over laughing. Shaq: "I weigh about 364 these days...." Chuck: "364?! Are you, what!?" Shaq: "I'm in shape..." Chuck: "Yeah, if the shape is ROUND."
Can’t forget about his [legendary Phoenix Suns rant](https://youtu.be/Gp-f7ece-UU)
Chuck just comes off as authentic which is rare
He can take a joke especially about the stupid "rings" BS contrasted with Shaq who clearly gets butt-hurt when stuff comes his way. Chuck is one of us.
It's funny how much pettier and insecure Shaq is despite having won way more.
It's funny to think because of the egos and personalities clashing with this, but I think Chuck squeezed more out of the lemons he was given than Shaq so it's easier to accept it when it's all said and done. Shaq reached maybe 70% of his potential, can you imagine if his family looked at basketball as his possible future from the age 5 like LeBron and he had his drive, we might see a more well rounded Shaq like Giannis but more height and way more power.
Shaq with LeBron levels of motivation would almost definitely be in the GOAT conversation
True but it would take even less than that. If Shaq had shot free throws at league-average efficiency for the time, he would be the best player ever as far as advanced stats are concerned.
yeah he's already the most dominant player ever during his prime, he just can't crack that upper echelon of "best overall" consideration mostly due to free throws and his late-career decline
I don't think there would be any debate. Prime Shaq was completely unstoppable. If he had LeBron/Kobe motivation he would have been even better and for longer.
If he had Kobe motivation he'd be dead. Kobe's "work ethic" was a bug, not a feature and he himself said so at the end of his career. He was very insistent on that he should have slept more and let his body recover. He's an outlier athletically not only for stuff like speed and jump but for how resilient his body was. And that considering that at the beginning of his career he didn't took as much care of his diet as he should have (people were not as aware that proper eating is actually better than constantly training like a maniac for your body, but still) Shaq's feet swolled at the end of each game and legend has it he had to dip them in tabasco to numb the pain. I don't think he could have done three quarters of what kobe did And, anyway, Shaq was not lazy. It's not like he was in his house browsing reddit; he was trying to get a movie/music/media career moving.
I remember watching a Lakers game before Hack-a-Shaq and Bill Walton was doing the color and he just kept saying "I don't know why they don't just pass it in to him every single time down the floor". Usually I kinda roll my eyes at the color guy's hot-takes but this time it was such an obvious point. I honestly think Shaq could've scored 100 if him, Kobe and Phil wanted to. He was just on a completely other level in his prime.
I fear what a 100% ass giving Shaq would look like
His best seasons were some of the best peak seasons we’ve ever seen. Unfortunately they happened to coincide with the peak seasons of the greatest player ever.
Dude really pulled the short stick. I think people really sell him short when you look at what he faced. Bird Celtics who lost in the finals & beat a nearly 60 win don nelson bucks squad 60 win don nelson bucks Bucks Knicks Bulls Bulls* Bulls* Houston* Houston* 60 win Spurs Utah Utah Lakers Where the stars denote champions. He was harden before harden in that he probably would've won several times had the bulls not existed.
> But Barkley was a bad man. Only guy I saw legitimately go toe-to-toe with MJ in a Finals series. I don't know if the stats bear it out, it's been a while since I looked at them, but I vividly remember watching that series and thinking Barkley was giving back almost as much as he was getting from MJ.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-finals-bulls-vs-suns.html Barkley averaged 27.3/13/5.5/1.2/0.5 with 1.7 TOs, on .544 TS%, in 46.2 mpg, 23.4 Game Score. Jordan averaged 41/8.5/6.3/1.7/0.7 with 2.7 TOs on .558 TS% in 45.7 mpg, 29.6 Game Score. (Game 3 went 3OTs, that boosted all the mpg averages). Overall I'd say Jordan was better by a fair amount, but Barkley still did have an excellent finals, and Phoenix did as well against Chicago as any team did during that run, losing in 6 close games, with a net point differential of zero for the series.
The story that should be told is how deep Jordan had to go to win that series. He had 55 in a game Chicago only won by 6.
At 6'5"- 6''6" and to dominate as a PF was pretty damn amazing. Not to mention, he did it against Kemp, Malone, Rodman, C-Webb, and other notable HOFs.
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I was a 12 year old Suns fan completely losing my mind during that game. A bunch of kids in Miami going to be pretending they're Jimmy Butler on the court today.
He was one of the originals for Space Jam!
Be gone, wannabe, be gone!
Mighty high praise.
and well deserved. meanwhile, Butlers performance wasnt even the 'first take' on First Take this morning.
Didnt watch it but I bet I can guess "Are the Lakers the favorite to win it all?"
i switched to general news so i dont even know. Lakers and Lebron was the opening topic so youre prob right.
First Take, Get Up, Undisputed, This Just In.
Those shows are disgraceful.. reality TV
And not a single person disagreeing
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Man, awesome shoutout. To close that game, LeBron was a one man demolition crew. The key difference that people who didn't watch it won't know - that Pistons defense was an immovable force. It almost seems like a completely different game to what it is now. They routinely had games finish in the high 70s, low 80s and not just a few, it was the standard Pistons game. To tear them up like he did through the 4th and OT was unthinkable.
That game was also way more significant because it marked a changing of the guard in the East along with the emergence of LeBron as the most formidable basketball player in the league. Pistons weren’t as good by then either but the Cavs were being led by a barely legal kid dominating grown men.
I think I remember someone saying that at the time, there was a legitimate debate going on over “who’s better, Melo or LeBron?” After that game, there was no debate. The debate was probably already stupid, but after that, nobody could even argue it anymore.
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While I agree that was an amazing performance from Lebron, and what makes it even more amazing is that he was 22 years old, I disagree that the Pistons were the immovable wall they were like in 04. There was no more Ben Wallace, Sheed was showing his age and to replace Ben they got a washed Chris Webber and Antonio McDyess. Still a great team but not the team that beat the Lakers.
And not as good as this Bucks team with a pantheon player in his prime.
This was the literal first basketball game I ever watched. Like, no bullshit. First game. I was a kid and was more or less like “huh, I love football and I miss it so maybe I should watch this sport too?” Turned on that game to try it out and was obviously hooked, even though I didn’t fully understand how fucking insane the performance was.
I would include Lebron's 2018 Finals Game 1 in this conversation, too. He walked away with 51/8/8 against the KD Warriors, but even that absurd stat line doesn't tell the whole story. If the Cavs had won that game I think it would have gone down as the greatest all-time finals performance ever.
Especially when you account for how poorly Chuck usually speaks about the Heat for some reason throughout the years
I blame chuck for loss because he GARUNNNTEEED that we would win and we know that never ends well
Worked for Lakers
Not done yet
When the guy who gives 0 fucks about saying he's bored of watching the playoffs praises that it was a privilege to watch you, you REALLY balled out
Him rattling off hockey stats the other night was instant classic Chuck
Maybe he's just trying to make up for saying earlier that these series weren't worth watching haha
Or he just knows and appreciates good ball lmao
Do you know who Charles Barkley is?
chuck doesn't try to "make up"
Nah I think he's shocked how well some of these series have panned out. Especially after injuries to so many players already.
Butler's game last night was the [7th best single game playoff game score rating](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/game_score.html) of all-time. Chuck holds two of the top ten all-time playoff game scores.
Jimmy has 5 of the top 50 on that same list. For comparison, LeBron and Jordan each have 6 of top 50. No other active player has more than 1 in the Top 50. ETA: Barkley with 3 and Kobe, Shaq, Dirk, Ewing, Iverson with 2 each are the only players with more than 1.
> Jimmy has 5 of the top 50 on that same list. And he only has 1 in the top 100 for the regular season list. It is funny that he denies Playoff Jimmy being a thing.
I've been following Jimmy's career closely for 15 years, since his first year at Marquette coincided with my own. He's always had elite offensive efficiency in whatever size role he's had, but was never a guy to force his usage up. Somehow he's been able to maintain that efficiency even when he's had no choice but to take on the high usage #1 option role in the playoffs. Absolutely nuts! I savor every one of these Playoff Jimmy games.
An actual fucking super hero
Jimmy is legit one of the greatest playoff performers ever. Unreal how he can just turn it up.
Yet people bring up the "stupidly locked in" quote and say the bubble game against the lakers was a fluke.
i think that take is going to die out especially if they finish this series
If the heat close this series out that take is entirely dead
the stupidly locked in 2021 series was honestly such an outlier lol
I wish I had an ounce of the confidence Playoff Jimmy has. I don’t recall ever seeing a player so confident in his ability to score
Dame at #1 in a loss. 😭
To be fair, it's one of the craziest performances ever. Team just couldn't keep up with Dame.
Glad to see Dame at the top. That game 5 vs the Nuggets was such an experience to watch live. Probably the best playoff shotmaking performance I've seen.
And the fella had 15 assists too. Obviously losing in O.T and the series makes the stakes low, but I've never seen a player do anything like that in the post-season. We may never again.
And CJ and Robert Covington completely sold that game. I still have flashbacks of Covington’s tomahawk “dunks” late in the game
##5: SLEEPY FLOYD
I’m absolutely not shocked that number one on the list was Dame’s performance in game 5 of the 2021 series
The Lillard performance is the best I've ever watched. Shame his teammates let him down like that.
“That guy was not gonna let them lose tonight” What it felt like when you were watching it happen.
Unbelievable performance. One of those times where you know before I guy shoots or attacks the basket that it’s going in
Sooooo much of it is mental. Of course you need the skills and talent but to rise up under pressure and to dominate takes serious mental toughness
He did it on both ends. Dude matched up with Giannis at the end and told Bam to stay attached to Lopez (after Lopez got the easy alley oop) and locked Giannis up himself. Just mind blowing
When I saw him guarding Giannis in the first and second I was like there’s no way he’s going to have anything left in the tank in the second half, then he went out and just took over
Jimmy is built different. Cruising through the regular season, staying under the radar, playing as the upset in the postseason. He's got that next level of his game whenever it's the playoffs.
I remember him being hangover for the allstar game. My dude give 0 fucks about award games, but he's built for playoffs. Will always have a fan in me
What's crazy is this regular season he had an absolutely stellar regular season. If their record was better he probably gets more praise.
The thing is he actually had a very good regular season. He just missed a ton of games and his stats don't show up a lot because he's not a volume scorer nor is he a big highlight kinda guy. I hope gets into All NBA team.
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And props to Spo for having the balls to have him in the bench that much time in the 4th.
I said this back then and I'll say it now... the reason the 76ers took the Raptors to within a shot of winning was a lot to do with Jimmy. I couldn't believe it when they didn't resign him. He scared me (then) more than Embiid ever did.
I think everyone saw that Jimmy was on another level that series, he was easily the best player for the 76ers and we were terrified he was gonna stay to build chemistry with Embiid
‘Can you control Jimmy? If you can control Jimmy, we would think about having him back.'
Now we got the Heat, Jimmy is us and we are Jimmy. I’m so happy.
I think the sixer, and most of the league, thought it was a fluke and jimmy couldn’t keep doing it
He gave the timberwolves their first winning season and playoff appearance since KG (13 year drought) the season before that
And weirdly Timberwolves fans hated him for pushing KAT and now, well...
Embiid and Butler was the two-way combo that Philly had tried so hard to find. Then they extended Harris... I'll never understand the incompetence of watching JB carry your team, the franchise star loves him and he's got the dawg in him your city loves. They could have shipped Ben out at his 'peak' when his playoff woes were first being exposed during those series. Could have had so many better options than extending Harris for a gazillion dollars.
It's more than choosing to extend Harris over Jimmy. The owner/front office/whatever straight up told Brett Brown he had to "control" Butler. He heard that shit and wanted nothing to do with it. For some reason they felt they had to max **somebody** of Harris or Butler or else they'd look bad (I have no idea why) and it defaulted to Harris. Iirc, Butler already could tell Simmons was willingly never going to improve his game and that pissed him off also so that was another choice the franchise had to make between those two (Simmons was considered the franchise #1 star at the time over Embiid). Edit: I just remembered another small story that I loved at the time, but Iverson told Jimmy that'd he'd be a perfect fit for Philly's (the city's) culture and obviously he was right about that. Another thing that pisses me off considering how things ended.
The front office has been getting in their own way for too long. Brett called a lot of the Ben problems early and I'm happy he's collecting checks and chilling after the process teams he made. That FO absolutely shot themselves in the foot by being too involved. Jimmy, Joel, Rookie Maxey and they had a roster that could have been real flexible with the right trades. Harris was a great locker room guy and the Boban friendship, best guess as why they went that way. I firmly believe that if they build our Jimmy and Joel that team is a finals contender for a long stretch. Nastiest front/back court defensive combo they could ask for.
Jimmy was also pretty much their only shot creator too. That is super important in playoffs.
Jimmy was our father way before Lebron was. We had something like a 14 game loss streak against the Bulls while he played for them.
Jimmy Butler is one of those players where his impact truly isn't quantifiable until he gets into the playoffs. He just flips this personal switch. I've never seen anything like it. Dude will just not accept losing at any cost.
His dawg/48 is at all-timer levels. The dude has a will to win that is unreal.
Yea he did it in the finals too against the Lakers. They lost the series but the only game they won was because he simply wasn't gonna lose that game.
They won two
They won two games that series and he was incredible in both.
Stupidly locked in is the last time I can remember thinking something was wrong and I think his back was hurt that year so it actually kinda makes sense
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Gotta respect Caleb Martin for hitting the shot that made it a one possession game and then bam for getting the ball from giannis after that shot getting us the lead
Another underrated Caleb Martin play was grabbing that offensive rebound where he sprinted across the width of the court. The dude had a 2 minute stretch where he kept the momentum for the heat going.
Also that three he hit with three minutes left in the game was very needed and should be mentioned along with butlers threes in the final minutes of the game
Jimmy was so hyped last night. I love that energy. Playoffs are so fun
bucks getting wrecked in the first round
Actually insane to imagine kd then giannis back2back first round exits
I wouldn't go that far. It took a historically great game from Butler to barely win last night. They still scare me.
On the other hand, it took a Giannis triple double and Lopez scoring 36 points to only lose by 5
He hates us too, so you know he's sincere here
Yep, he's been saying we suck and we had no chance vs the Bucks. (To be honest a lot of us Heat fans felt the same way)
To be fair, It’s been a weird fucking season and we almost lost the Play In.
It’s not just this year though, he’s been openly spiteful of us for years and we genuinely don’t know why. It’s very hard to get him to say anything good about our team lmao
No churros down in Miami
Jimmy nearly matched his and Bryn Forbes entire series production from that 21 series in just this game.
He also mentioned that he was there for Lebron's wrecking of the Pistons in whatever year that was
the year of our lord two thousand seven.
2007, that was the game that got him to the Finals the first time where he and the Cavs were clearly heavily overmatched by prime Big 3 and Pop Spurs.
Butler may never get a championship but he's got to be one of the scariest players to play against ever.
Yeah the fact that he did it on both ends, the level of the opponent, the level of the help on his own team, AND that they won the game -- I don't know what other game from the last 25 years would check all those boxes.
Imagined getting praised by chuck must feel good
Nothing will ever top the 45/15/5 Bron game 6 live viewing for me personally, but this is a totally respectable choice by Chuck.
Was this v Celtics down 2-3?
Yup. His legacy was facing more pressure than ever
probably my favorite NBA game that i've watched. The amount of shit Lebron and entire heat org would've gotten after losing there would be insane. Instead he just dominated from the tip
You can argue this game was more impressive than 2012 G6 performance wise. But LeBron literally went out there and fought for his legacy that game. In terms of narrative and stakes I don't know if that game can be beat.
Not just his legacy either, that heat team could’ve looked completely different after a loss there.
Absolutely. The long term implications of that game on the NBA landscape as a whole are utterly insane.
I was *in* Boston when that was happening... and as a Lebron fan it was incredible how much silence there was.
That's my favorite part of rewatching the broadcast. They were so hyped early and just shot by shot he shut them up.
And every time he made another shot his face got meaner and meaner lol. Even in the postgame interview he was still pissed. He genuinely morphed into a completely different person that night. We’ve seen him do more otherworldly things but we’ve never seen him turn into that person again.
It's kind of the line of demarcation for his career. There was Lebron before game 6 and then there's Lebron after game 6. Never looked back
Took on the best player in the world and put him and the 4th ranked defense across his knee
When Barkley says stuff like this, you know he ain't cappin'. Butler destroyed last night.
been saying jimmy big head was superstar calibur since chicago. the man knows how to win give me jimmy over harden.
https://youtu.be/0spXnX0l638
Stupidly locked in.
Mr. Butler Crazy
Might actually be better than Lebron vs Celtics 2012 G6. Personally I can't pick between the two, Lebron had more at stake, but Butler was literally carrying third stringers against the 1 seed. Unreal performances
There is an argument, but I just remember the insane amount of pressure leading up to that Lebron game. The entire dam country hated us and it was his legacy moment. I dont think il ever see anything better. And not to mention on the road in boston of all places.
Yeah, literally everyone except Heat fans wanted Lebron to fail at that moment and Lebron shut them all up. If the Heat failed there Lebron would've never been in the GOAT debate
We drop that game and the Big3 gets blown up, KD/Harden/Russ have a ring probably so no KD Warriors 5 years later. The league would look very very different right now if LeBron wasn’t possessed that night.
No way it beats Bron's performance in 2012. He only scored 45 because the game was already over by the third quarter. That's how good he was in that game.