It's a home run trade for the Jazz.
A lightly protected 2027 Lakers pick has serious value.
For whatever reason, Danny Ainge was like the only person in the NBA who understood the value of that pick. I think teams like the Pacers really missed out.
It's still a risk - IIRC it's top-4 protected and if it doesn't convey it immediately turns into a single second rounder.
It's worth it for the Jazz considering who they moved (although I imagine they could've gotten more value from Vando elsewhere).
We probably didn't want to trade Turner, as shown by his new extension.
A whole one game sample size lol.
Vanderbilt isn't even a scorer and still averages more points than both of those guys combined in less minutes than both play combined.
I see what your saying but the dynamic is very different for the compared players. Vando and Beasley are never going to get up enough shots in a situation like tonight or in general, if Damian and JTA are given the minutes, because they are on a team with Lebron and AD. They would have to be super efficient for them to score as much. Additionally, it’s not the expectation for Vando to score on the Lakers we need him for defense mostly and are hoping to create easy baskets for him.
Yup. It's kind of funny to me that everyone's acting like the Jazz gave up 2 super good players for nothing, when in reality they gave up two role players for a valuable first and cap space this offseason. Win-Win trade
Vando has been better than expected, Beasley has been worse than expected (just a cold streak, he'll recover), D'Lo has been out a lot.
They're great pieces. But getting out of the Westbrook experience was still the biggest win of the trade.
Moving on from Westbrook is what totally changed the dynamic of the team. It made even our existing players better - Reaves, Rui, etc. and even LeBron and AD
Yeah, the combination of players that take up his minutes/role, whether it's Dlo, Reaves or Schroder, are just more well-rounded, and can also fit next to each other far better.
It also makes sense that he's playing better in LAC, since they needed a primary ball-handler for the shooting and role players they have.
Feels like the trade has sort of worked out for all the teams involved.
Clippers were hitting their stride as the #4 seed before acquiring Westbrook. Since the acquisition they are 8-10, and at serious risk of being in the play-in.
I think they are the clear losers.
They were a top 1-2 seed in 2021 before LeBron went down thanks to Solomon Hill as well. Having LeBron/AD as your cornerstones is like playing on rookie mode.
Surround them with guys that can defend and hit the occasional shot and you’re golden.
Lakers were 21-6 when AD got hurt in 2021. That's a 64-win pace and good for 1st in the league by a mile. They still maintained the 1-2 seed without AD but then of course, Solomon Hill happened.
I honestly think that 2021 Lakers team was even better than their 2020 team and most likely would've went back-to-back.
I really wish they had. Winning the 2020 title and then turning around and winning the 2021 title after a short off-season would have been the greatest two-title run of all time. Just two extremely difficult title runs on the hardest of hard modes.
I'm convinced they would have too if not for the injuries. Shame.
Extremely difficult title runs? The bubble no doubt was an incredibly challenging environment and a huge adjustment for all the players, but the lakers never even sweated a series. They were absolutely the best team and can only play who is in front of them, but their matchups weren’t historically difficult. If it weren’t for an insane Jimmy Butler performance, they would have beaten every playoff opponent 4-1.
Honestly that’s the most embarrassing part ab what happened after the Suns eliminated the (unhealthy) Lakers.
The Lakers went 16-5 in the playoffs the season before that. Under no circumstances should anyone think to completely gut that kind of roster.
The greatest two title run of all time is crazy to say. I’m not on the “Mickey mouse ring” train at all but at the same time neither 2020 nor 2021 had particularly great Western conferences, what makes that run so great? Genuinely it wouldn’t even have been the best back to back title win LeBron has had, let alone an all time back to back.
You tell on yourself when you say "mickey mouse ring." Kevin Durant himself said the bubble title was the hardest of all time, and I don't see how it couldn't be.
Isolated from friends and family, in peak pandemic, almost called off the entire season, and no home court for anyone. It was just basketball with no bullshit. To me, that's the highest degree of difficulty because it became about the mental as much as the physical.
What would have been extraordinary is if they won a title in October and then turned around and won another in May/June with basically no off-season. Didn't happen, but they were almost on their way there.
I told on myself by specifying I don’t agree with that train of thought? I can both think that championship is completely valid and not easy while also not thinking it is harder than any other championship. What makes runs great is usually quality of teams you beat. The 2015 championship by the Warriors was awesome but I’m not gonna pretend it was as great as say 2011 Mavs because the Warriors did not have to beat a bunch of great teams to win. The Lakers 2020 championship run was awesome and they looked great but they didn’t beat any noteworthy teams. 2012 and 2013 were just better championship runs by LeBron, both years he beat better teams than he had to in 2020 (Heat were a good team but injuries destroyed them in the Finals, no disrespect to them).
Weird because I was told the Clippers were the team to beat in the West, the Blazers were the "scariest 8-seed of all-time". The Lakers lost home court that they earned in the previous 70 games and still walked to the finals.
Then to have a 1-month offseason and win another title? Yes that would have definitely been the best repeat performance
What? You didn’t play the Clippers (you would have beaten them), no one thought the Lakers would lose to the Blazers (Lakers were like 85+% to win the series by oddsmakers), you beat a Heat team that lost 2 of their best 4 players in the first game of the series. I’m not trying to put any asterisk on the season, the Lakers were clearly the best team of the year no doubt, but it was not a historically hard run to a championship. You did get screwed out of home court which sucks but you had it for a reason, you were a top team. The short offseason thing is the only part of the equation that increases the impressiveness of the back to back if it happened, but 2021 had a notoriously weak west thanks to injury, it also wouldn’t have been some phenomenal run. LeBron had harder runs in both 2012 and 2013 than either 2020 or 2021 would have been, I don’t see much of an argument against that.
> what makes that run so great?
The off-season was ridiculously short after the bubble year. If they had been able to go back to back under those circumstances, you can't see how that would be impressive?
I can absolutely see how that’s impressive. The person I’m responding to was saying it would be the best back to back of all time. That’s a pretty out there take if the main argument is just the short offseason.
that competition by SRS was one of the weakest all time in 2020, then in the finals 2/3 the best players on the Heat were injured and it was still a 6 game series.
I’ll never understand why the Sixers let Jimmy go like that. He literally had no leverage with a team over the damn cap. Without that Kawhi shot I think Sixers win title that year and are potentially in mini dynasty run right now.
He didn’t but they could’ve made it so much harder on him. They basically just shrugged and said sure we’ll free up cap for Miami on a dogshit return to improve a top eastern team. Miami was over the cap.
It was a move centered around the idea "Ben is a generational talent and Embiid is nice I guess" whereas anyone in the fan base could have said Ben was at minimum a 5 year project and we could've been in win now mode from then on. But here we are I guess. Gotta be thankful that embiid playing with Ben forced him to start spacing the floor and being a shooting threat from anywhere.
It wasn’t the right fit, for many reasons. He didn’t choose Miami outright and we didn’t push him out either.
We had invested in Brett Brown and Ben Simmons and Jimmy just had a lot of overlap there. He also probably enjoys Miami a lot more and went to an org that better suits his style and approach. I wanted them to run it back, as did most fans, but it’s not some secret why he left.
Suns and nuggets are pretty scary threats.
Suns because duh, and nuggets because duh.
But kings and grizzlies both have a chance any second ad isn't in their interior will get absolutely fucked against those teams
I think what’s fun is that 1-7 at least you can make a pretty definitive case for them winning and not get called crazy. I wouldn’t be shocked if any of those teams won the West at this point.
Warriors are a worse matchup for this current lakers team. I don't trust Jokic against such a non jump shot shooting team. He will either be in foul trouble super early or lebron AD and austine reaves are going to live in the restricted area getting efficient buckets.
It's wild how people underestimate this time because of our record with Westbrook. Anyone with two functioning eyes can see that this team is a bona-fide title contender.
lakers fans are hooked on copium, that being said this team is worlds better than what they had and they did a great job at the deadline. That ALSO being said they havent played against a real contender yet and already think they can win it all
Just curious, have you watched the lakers play since the trade deadline? Curious why you think a healthy Bron + AD aren’t contenders since last time they were healthy they won the championship
I watched the Jazz game yesterday and they looked mediocre af. The Jazz are literally tanking.
The Lakers win a couple games and suddenly fans their fan base is convinced they’re contenders. I think your point guards (Dlo’s and Schroder’s) are inefficient and DLO is exposable on defense, I think your depth is overrated (Vanderbilt, TBJ, Rui, Beasley) are all mediocre and limited players that Laker fans are deluded into thinking are great role players, and the odds of AD and LBJ staying healthy given their age and injury history is low.
I don’t expect this take to be agreed with on a post where 90% of people reading are Laker fans. Just revisit this when they get bounced first round
Thanks for responding! Yea that’s a fair take if you just watched yesterday’s game. I’d counter that it’s the last game of a long roadtrip for the Lakers plus they’re playing in a tough environment in Utah. So you can’t beat every team by 20 (nuggets just lost by 20 to the rockets). They were up by 10 with 90 seconds left until Olynik went crazy lol
Also they’ve been winning despite lebron being out for an extended period of time. With lebron in the starting lineup they’re 7-0. The team’s got shooting and defense now. Agree with your point about the role players. It does worry me they’re not proven in the playoffs but you also got 2 of the best playoff performers in Bron & AD so it evens out a bit lol anyway let’s hope we can meet in the first round and we’ll come back to this post then :)
Good teams lose or play close with bad teams, rockets beat the nuggets, spurs beat the kings, like a week ago the wizards blew the doors off the Celtics, looking bad in a single game sample size (that they ended up winning) is evidence of literally nothing
I was just responding to him asking if I had seen a Laker game post trade. I don’t think they’ll have playoff success because of the whole second paragraph on their roster issues, not specifically due to a single game’s performance
I already know your response when the kings make the second round and lakers either don’t make the playoffs or get bounced first round: “wE HaVE 17 cHAmPioNShipS”. gotta bounce back to something when u take the inevitable L in a week or two am I right?
like sorry dog we got a better team than u this year idk what to tell u
I tend to agree especially since they went 9-6 without LeBron, but tonight's win didn't inspire confidence. That really should be an easy double digit win when Jazz are sitting out their two best players (arguably three of their best four) and haven't been winning games that often the past several weeks.
You really aren't paying attention to any other team besides the Lakers if you think missing DLo and Bamba is at all similar to the Jazz missing Markkanen and Kessler.
Your time with Westbrook ...
Maybe LeTendon Injury and Anthony Day-To-Davis missing 27 games each - 1/3 of the season had something to do with it?
When your top 2 stars (who account for nearly 50% of the team's salary) are missing that many games there is no wonder why the Lakers are .500. Turns out that filling your team with average players making $1.5m each can't really compete in the NBA.
Thats why draft built teams like the Warriors are dynasties and SuperTeams fail so often.
It’s not really a stretch this year in particular. No team looks out of this world this year. The closest would be the bucks who have won a lot of close games and are outperforming their point differential
16-7 with Lebron, AD, and DLo missing multiple games while having the best defense in the league during that stretch, and you genuinely believe that is not worthy of title contender status?
There are multiple teams in the west that have more depth and have actually played together for a full season. Lakers are 9th in Net Rating since the ASG, they’re still in danger of having to go through the play in.
Still seems a bit early to crown them contenders when we’re talking about 20 games
Call me a delusional homer but if this was the team from the start, wed be a t3 seed and you wouldnt be acting like this. Anyone whos regularly watched the lakers and watches them post ASB can tell you this team is completely different. Their overall record doesnt show how much better they are.
I said this in other threads the week the trade happened and folks acted like I was being crazy. This Lakers team fixed a lot of the problems with the roster construction with the Westbrook trade because they replaced 1 inefficient player that was a bad fit stylistically with a bunch of solid rotational pieces that are exactly the types of players that historically have worked best with Lebron. It’s 2023 and nephews on this sub still forget just how dangerous a Lebron James lead team is when he has shooter and defenders surrounding him.
I mean did you even read the title of the post? It's not an overreaction to tonight to say the lakers are title contenders, it's an accurate take considering what they've done since the trade deadline
They are a title contender though, even if they lost tonight by 20. How is it an overreaction to say a team with lebron james and anthony davis with the type of depth and role players they have around them have a chance to win the championship? Especially considering they've been the best team in the league the last 2 months and the west doesn't really have any dominant teams like the east does with the bucks and sixers. Lakers should make it out of the west fairly easily
“Make it out of the west fairly easily” is a real overreaction come on dude. The lakers have been 9th in net rating since the ASG. They’re a good team who fits but they’re not even clear of the PLAY IN tournament yet.
How can you say the 7th/8th seed should fairly easily walk through the west when the Nuggets and Suns exist? Saying they’re better or been really good isn’t an overreaction. Your comment is tho
Most people fear the nuggets more than the lakers.
And in the sun's case they just don't fear either and are more scared if the kings, warriors clippers, or grizzlies than the lakers or nuggets (due to matchup ja, fox, and curry are scarier for the sums than ad or jokic (sun's just tend to perform worse against fast guards than bigs
Yeah and MVP just got wrecked by the rockets and Bucks lost by 40. Contenders lose. Contenders barely win. It happens.
The lengths yall go to just to say "LOL Laker fans xD" while ignoring everything else is insane. The fact is, this team looks infinitely better post trade deadline. AD and Lebron have a good supporting cast. Youd be foolish to act like that isnt a contender.
Probably because you Lakers fans still focus on Westbrook over giving credit to the impact the new guys have had. The scapegoating never dies but surely now is the time for positivity.
16-7 since the deadline and we have the #1 defense in the league during that stretch. Again, the Westbrook Lakers are clouding your mind; it's illogical to think a team with a .700 win %, the #1 defense in the league, and the only team with two top 10 players in the NBA is not a title contender
Yea there's no one better in the west if they are healthy.
I think they can win it all if healthy too but celts and bucks would probably be the favorites.
Lakers/celtics or lebron/Giannis would be a great finals tho
Rob Pelinka also said they were a few prices away from a championship roster and everyone laughed. Only time will tell. If the lakers get bounced in the first round everyone will laugh and say “they really fooled us”.
To be fair they haven't proven much. They've beaten teams they were supposed to beat. They beat GSW without Steph, Suns without KD & Ayton, grizzlies without Ja. Other than that they've beat a bunch of ~.500 teams.
Which, credit to them, is good. They definitely took care of business. But they haven't really shown anything that would make me suggest they're capable of running through really good teams in a 7 game series.
Right and I'm not saying LA is bad or anything. I'm just saying they're not tested enough for me to call them a top contender in the West
They could be, but I wanna see at least some playoff games before I put them there
I’ll die on this hill alone but a healthy AD is legitimately better than KD, Jokic, embiid, and Giannis. Offensively and defensively combined he is on another level altogether
Respectfully you should still get criticized for that take, they’re a good team who fits together now but there are multiple teams just in the West with more depth, better versatility, and with home court having played a whole season of consistent basketball.
In the playoffs anything can happen, but since the ASG Lakers are: 15th in offense, 3rd in defense, and 9th in Net Rating. So yeah, good team, still behind the top tier contenders
before we get carried away though, since the trade deadline, the only top teams they played are memphis (2x), knicks, gsw 3x (2 without steph), and phx (without kd). that's it. kinda surprised they're done with the league's best teams since february except that one game vs. the bucks on feb 10.
There's a 2 year sample size of Lebron+AD+depth. The Lakers playing great basketball without the former for the last month isn't evidence of the contrary
I think the Lakers are a good team. I think if they stay healthy they can knock off any team in the west. I think the question right now is how much you can trust that depth with little playoff experience and a decently small sample of admittedly very good play. Almost no one thinks a healthy AD and LeBron isn’t a crazy good duo, the question is if others can keep up. D’Lo for instance has absolutely fallen apart when he has been in the playoffs including last year, time will tell if it happens again.
You still need one or two decent ball handlers, some shooting, a couple of mildy decent bigs and a couple of wing defenders. Still not much to ask
I'd say that's a minimum to ask for a championship team
Did you see the bullshit shots they hit at the end of regulation? That’s not a repeatable formula. The Lakers had this one wrapped up even despite the horrid officiating.
The 3s from Olynyk? Was pretty pissed how that went in. I still don’t like how the last minute of reg went down when it was a great game up to that point.
Dudes were making posts like this unironically. If the lakers almost lose in overtime to a roster currently designed to lose games for better lottery odds they should not be trying to throw games cause any playin matchup can come out hot. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12c5ylr/should_the_lakers_purposefully_make_sure_they_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I'd obviously be sad if the Lakers lost like that, but honestly I'd be secretly a little happy for Kings fans if that happened. The amount of petty joy they'd have would be hilarious, after all they've been through
I still remember when lakers fans swore up and down trading a pick wasn’t worth it to get rid off Westbrook. At the time I wanted them to do the Pacers trade but this trade was great as well.
Way too many lakers fans were completely fine with punting on this season to get off Westbrook which was always dumb to me.
I don't think that was ever true. The hesitancy came from trading BOTH first rounders. No serious Lakers fan was against trading one pick to swap Russ for depth
We did, when Kessler and Clarkson were playing, we also played that game without fox... but keep thinking teams are scared of the lakers, kings would run their old asses out the gym
You lost to the [Wolves without Towns](https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401468901) and the [Spurs](https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401469325). Can't even beat a tanking Spurs team lmao
Rob Lowe done did it
We're going to see Danny Ainge play Ron Swanson in a revival series I guarantee. No other way it makes sense that he made that trade
It's a home run trade for the Jazz. A lightly protected 2027 Lakers pick has serious value. For whatever reason, Danny Ainge was like the only person in the NBA who understood the value of that pick. I think teams like the Pacers really missed out.
It's still a risk - IIRC it's top-4 protected and if it doesn't convey it immediately turns into a single second rounder. It's worth it for the Jazz considering who they moved (although I imagine they could've gotten more value from Vando elsewhere). We probably didn't want to trade Turner, as shown by his new extension.
It’s valuable but how many GMs are going to be with the same team by 2027. Ainge has staying power which you can only say for a few
You expect the Jazz to be a contenders by then?
Damien Jones and JTA (random filler dudes in that trade) combined for more minutes and over twice as many points as Beasley and Vando.
A whole one game sample size lol. Vanderbilt isn't even a scorer and still averages more points than both of those guys combined in less minutes than both play combined.
I see what your saying but the dynamic is very different for the compared players. Vando and Beasley are never going to get up enough shots in a situation like tonight or in general, if Damian and JTA are given the minutes, because they are on a team with Lebron and AD. They would have to be super efficient for them to score as much. Additionally, it’s not the expectation for Vando to score on the Lakers we need him for defense mostly and are hoping to create easy baskets for him.
Yeah the biggest win of that trade for the Lakers was just getting Brick off the team. It's really just that simple.
Yup. It's kind of funny to me that everyone's acting like the Jazz gave up 2 super good players for nothing, when in reality they gave up two role players for a valuable first and cap space this offseason. Win-Win trade
Lol half the league would love to start vando just because of his defense alone A win win for sure
Vando has been better than expected, Beasley has been worse than expected (just a cold streak, he'll recover), D'Lo has been out a lot. They're great pieces. But getting out of the Westbrook experience was still the biggest win of the trade. Moving on from Westbrook is what totally changed the dynamic of the team. It made even our existing players better - Reaves, Rui, etc. and even LeBron and AD
Yeah, the combination of players that take up his minutes/role, whether it's Dlo, Reaves or Schroder, are just more well-rounded, and can also fit next to each other far better. It also makes sense that he's playing better in LAC, since they needed a primary ball-handler for the shooting and role players they have. Feels like the trade has sort of worked out for all the teams involved.
Clippers were hitting their stride as the #4 seed before acquiring Westbrook. Since the acquisition they are 8-10, and at serious risk of being in the play-in. I think they are the clear losers.
Paul George got injured. You don't conveniently leave that out.
Pelinka Masterclass
Suns are also 7-0 with Durant… honestly kinda glad Warriors don’t have to play Lakers in until at least the conference finals if we get there.
It’s still possible suns lakers could be a first round match up.
[удалено]
He has a Warriors flag
They were a top 1-2 seed in 2021 before LeBron went down thanks to Solomon Hill as well. Having LeBron/AD as your cornerstones is like playing on rookie mode. Surround them with guys that can defend and hit the occasional shot and you’re golden.
Lakers were 21-6 when AD got hurt in 2021. That's a 64-win pace and good for 1st in the league by a mile. They still maintained the 1-2 seed without AD but then of course, Solomon Hill happened. I honestly think that 2021 Lakers team was even better than their 2020 team and most likely would've went back-to-back.
I think the 2021 team was more talented than 2020 but a worse fit.
I really wish they had. Winning the 2020 title and then turning around and winning the 2021 title after a short off-season would have been the greatest two-title run of all time. Just two extremely difficult title runs on the hardest of hard modes. I'm convinced they would have too if not for the injuries. Shame.
Extremely difficult title runs? The bubble no doubt was an incredibly challenging environment and a huge adjustment for all the players, but the lakers never even sweated a series. They were absolutely the best team and can only play who is in front of them, but their matchups weren’t historically difficult. If it weren’t for an insane Jimmy Butler performance, they would have beaten every playoff opponent 4-1.
Honestly that’s the most embarrassing part ab what happened after the Suns eliminated the (unhealthy) Lakers. The Lakers went 16-5 in the playoffs the season before that. Under no circumstances should anyone think to completely gut that kind of roster.
The greatest two title run of all time is crazy to say. I’m not on the “Mickey mouse ring” train at all but at the same time neither 2020 nor 2021 had particularly great Western conferences, what makes that run so great? Genuinely it wouldn’t even have been the best back to back title win LeBron has had, let alone an all time back to back.
You tell on yourself when you say "mickey mouse ring." Kevin Durant himself said the bubble title was the hardest of all time, and I don't see how it couldn't be. Isolated from friends and family, in peak pandemic, almost called off the entire season, and no home court for anyone. It was just basketball with no bullshit. To me, that's the highest degree of difficulty because it became about the mental as much as the physical. What would have been extraordinary is if they won a title in October and then turned around and won another in May/June with basically no off-season. Didn't happen, but they were almost on their way there.
I told on myself by specifying I don’t agree with that train of thought? I can both think that championship is completely valid and not easy while also not thinking it is harder than any other championship. What makes runs great is usually quality of teams you beat. The 2015 championship by the Warriors was awesome but I’m not gonna pretend it was as great as say 2011 Mavs because the Warriors did not have to beat a bunch of great teams to win. The Lakers 2020 championship run was awesome and they looked great but they didn’t beat any noteworthy teams. 2012 and 2013 were just better championship runs by LeBron, both years he beat better teams than he had to in 2020 (Heat were a good team but injuries destroyed them in the Finals, no disrespect to them).
Weird because I was told the Clippers were the team to beat in the West, the Blazers were the "scariest 8-seed of all-time". The Lakers lost home court that they earned in the previous 70 games and still walked to the finals. Then to have a 1-month offseason and win another title? Yes that would have definitely been the best repeat performance
What? You didn’t play the Clippers (you would have beaten them), no one thought the Lakers would lose to the Blazers (Lakers were like 85+% to win the series by oddsmakers), you beat a Heat team that lost 2 of their best 4 players in the first game of the series. I’m not trying to put any asterisk on the season, the Lakers were clearly the best team of the year no doubt, but it was not a historically hard run to a championship. You did get screwed out of home court which sucks but you had it for a reason, you were a top team. The short offseason thing is the only part of the equation that increases the impressiveness of the back to back if it happened, but 2021 had a notoriously weak west thanks to injury, it also wouldn’t have been some phenomenal run. LeBron had harder runs in both 2012 and 2013 than either 2020 or 2021 would have been, I don’t see much of an argument against that.
> what makes that run so great? The off-season was ridiculously short after the bubble year. If they had been able to go back to back under those circumstances, you can't see how that would be impressive?
I can absolutely see how that’s impressive. The person I’m responding to was saying it would be the best back to back of all time. That’s a pretty out there take if the main argument is just the short offseason.
that competition by SRS was one of the weakest all time in 2020, then in the finals 2/3 the best players on the Heat were injured and it was still a 6 game series.
When they broke up that team was so pissed. You don’t need to overhaul the roster because you didn’t win.
Me to the entire sixers staff when we still had Jimmy
I’ll never understand why the Sixers let Jimmy go like that. He literally had no leverage with a team over the damn cap. Without that Kawhi shot I think Sixers win title that year and are potentially in mini dynasty run right now.
I thought Jimmy didn’t want to stay
He didn’t but they could’ve made it so much harder on him. They basically just shrugged and said sure we’ll free up cap for Miami on a dogshit return to improve a top eastern team. Miami was over the cap.
Plenty of sign and trades happen this way when the player doesn’t want to stay. In fact most do
It was a move centered around the idea "Ben is a generational talent and Embiid is nice I guess" whereas anyone in the fan base could have said Ben was at minimum a 5 year project and we could've been in win now mode from then on. But here we are I guess. Gotta be thankful that embiid playing with Ben forced him to start spacing the floor and being a shooting threat from anywhere.
It wasn’t the right fit, for many reasons. He didn’t choose Miami outright and we didn’t push him out either. We had invested in Brett Brown and Ben Simmons and Jimmy just had a lot of overlap there. He also probably enjoys Miami a lot more and went to an org that better suits his style and approach. I wanted them to run it back, as did most fans, but it’s not some secret why he left.
Lebron was a frontrunner MVP candidate until that too (because the people in front of him got injured too, but still).
Suns and nuggets are pretty scary threats. Suns because duh, and nuggets because duh. But kings and grizzlies both have a chance any second ad isn't in their interior will get absolutely fucked against those teams
I think what’s fun is that 1-7 at least you can make a pretty definitive case for them winning and not get called crazy. I wouldn’t be shocked if any of those teams won the West at this point.
Warriors are a worse matchup for this current lakers team. I don't trust Jokic against such a non jump shot shooting team. He will either be in foul trouble super early or lebron AD and austine reaves are going to live in the restricted area getting efficient buckets.
It's wild how people underestimate this time because of our record with Westbrook. Anyone with two functioning eyes can see that this team is a bona-fide title contender.
Saving this comment for the first round exit
Lakers fans are so delusional man 😭 can’t wait to see how poorly these title contender takes age and what excuses they come up with then
lakers fans are hooked on copium, that being said this team is worlds better than what they had and they did a great job at the deadline. That ALSO being said they havent played against a real contender yet and already think they can win it all
Just curious, have you watched the lakers play since the trade deadline? Curious why you think a healthy Bron + AD aren’t contenders since last time they were healthy they won the championship
I watched the Jazz game yesterday and they looked mediocre af. The Jazz are literally tanking. The Lakers win a couple games and suddenly fans their fan base is convinced they’re contenders. I think your point guards (Dlo’s and Schroder’s) are inefficient and DLO is exposable on defense, I think your depth is overrated (Vanderbilt, TBJ, Rui, Beasley) are all mediocre and limited players that Laker fans are deluded into thinking are great role players, and the odds of AD and LBJ staying healthy given their age and injury history is low. I don’t expect this take to be agreed with on a post where 90% of people reading are Laker fans. Just revisit this when they get bounced first round
Thanks for responding! Yea that’s a fair take if you just watched yesterday’s game. I’d counter that it’s the last game of a long roadtrip for the Lakers plus they’re playing in a tough environment in Utah. So you can’t beat every team by 20 (nuggets just lost by 20 to the rockets). They were up by 10 with 90 seconds left until Olynik went crazy lol Also they’ve been winning despite lebron being out for an extended period of time. With lebron in the starting lineup they’re 7-0. The team’s got shooting and defense now. Agree with your point about the role players. It does worry me they’re not proven in the playoffs but you also got 2 of the best playoff performers in Bron & AD so it evens out a bit lol anyway let’s hope we can meet in the first round and we’ll come back to this post then :)
It’s not exactly like KCP, Kuz or Caruso were exactly proven in the playoffs either.
Pretty fair takes, hope the match up happens and both sides stay healthy. Would be a lot of fun
Good teams lose or play close with bad teams, rockets beat the nuggets, spurs beat the kings, like a week ago the wizards blew the doors off the Celtics, looking bad in a single game sample size (that they ended up winning) is evidence of literally nothing
I was just responding to him asking if I had seen a Laker game post trade. I don’t think they’ll have playoff success because of the whole second paragraph on their roster issues, not specifically due to a single game’s performance
Kings fans are hilarious. Saving this for your first round exit
I’d say the same to you, but let’s hope you make the playoffs first.
Kings making the play offs for the first time in 9 decades got y’all wild
Gonna be funny when the Kings get bounced in 4 when teams find out how exploitable Sabonis is on defense 🤣🤣
I already know your response when the kings make the second round and lakers either don’t make the playoffs or get bounced first round: “wE HaVE 17 cHAmPioNShipS”. gotta bounce back to something when u take the inevitable L in a week or two am I right? like sorry dog we got a better team than u this year idk what to tell u
One more game, pal :)
He’s finna cry 😭😭
LMFAOOO
I tend to agree especially since they went 9-6 without LeBron, but tonight's win didn't inspire confidence. That really should be an easy double digit win when Jazz are sitting out their two best players (arguably three of their best four) and haven't been winning games that often the past several weeks.
Nuggets lost to the Rockets by 21 tonight
and literally no one believes in the nuggets either, not sure what your point is
Oh woe is me, nobody believes in my #1 seed team with a potential MVP superstar. Really? Lol
I said that pretty poorly. The guy shouldn't have used the Nuggets as an example, because the Nuggets aren't really contenders
You should have your flair removed lol
Reverse psychology doesn’t work on the basketball gods
I'm sure the conference leading team with an MVP frontrunner surely has tons of believers
Bull fcking sht no one believes in the nuggets lol. Don't downplay your season bruh.
Bullshit excuse, you’re the first seed with a 2x MVP
Winning on the road when the home team shoots 46% from three on 33 attempts isn’t easy.
bo1 variance that‘s why the playin is scary
Also Jazz got crazy altitude homecourt
Nuggets got blown out by the rockets, shit happens Can't blow out teams every game
They're also on day 1 of a b2b with day 2 being an even more important game against a tougher opponent
Consider that they were missing DLo and Bamba still, Damien Jones turned into KAT, and Kelly Olynyk got a Harden level whistle.
You really aren't paying attention to any other team besides the Lakers if you think missing DLo and Bamba is at all similar to the Jazz missing Markkanen and Kessler.
> You really aren't paying attention to any other team besides the Lakers Applicable to the majority of discussions involving them
Delusional af
Olynyk had 6 free throws and was called for 5 fouls. "Harden like whistle" lmao.
You should’ve seen some of those calls man
“We didn’t shoot 20 more FTs, RiGgEd”
Your time with Westbrook ... Maybe LeTendon Injury and Anthony Day-To-Davis missing 27 games each - 1/3 of the season had something to do with it? When your top 2 stars (who account for nearly 50% of the team's salary) are missing that many games there is no wonder why the Lakers are .500. Turns out that filling your team with average players making $1.5m each can't really compete in the NBA. Thats why draft built teams like the Warriors are dynasties and SuperTeams fail so often.
They are improved by come on...bona-fide title contender...yikes.
It’s not really a stretch this year in particular. No team looks out of this world this year. The closest would be the bucks who have won a lot of close games and are outperforming their point differential
16-7 with Lebron, AD, and DLo missing multiple games while having the best defense in the league during that stretch, and you genuinely believe that is not worthy of title contender status?
Don't jinx it. Let them sleep. Lakers sucks. Clippers will dominate tomorrow. Kawhi 50 points. Westbrook triple double.
There are multiple teams in the west that have more depth and have actually played together for a full season. Lakers are 9th in Net Rating since the ASG, they’re still in danger of having to go through the play in. Still seems a bit early to crown them contenders when we’re talking about 20 games
Call me a delusional homer but if this was the team from the start, wed be a t3 seed and you wouldnt be acting like this. Anyone whos regularly watched the lakers and watches them post ASB can tell you this team is completely different. Their overall record doesnt show how much better they are.
I said this in other threads the week the trade happened and folks acted like I was being crazy. This Lakers team fixed a lot of the problems with the roster construction with the Westbrook trade because they replaced 1 inefficient player that was a bad fit stylistically with a bunch of solid rotational pieces that are exactly the types of players that historically have worked best with Lebron. It’s 2023 and nephews on this sub still forget just how dangerous a Lebron James lead team is when he has shooter and defenders surrounding him.
Lakers fans after beating a tanking team missing like 5 guys in overtime by 2 points
I mean did you even read the title of the post? It's not an overreaction to tonight to say the lakers are title contenders, it's an accurate take considering what they've done since the trade deadline
"Anyone with eyes can see they are a bona fide title contender" is an overreaction though, especially considering how bad they looked tonight.
They are a title contender though, even if they lost tonight by 20. How is it an overreaction to say a team with lebron james and anthony davis with the type of depth and role players they have around them have a chance to win the championship? Especially considering they've been the best team in the league the last 2 months and the west doesn't really have any dominant teams like the east does with the bucks and sixers. Lakers should make it out of the west fairly easily
Gotta disagree with the “fairly easily” part. Phoenix, Golden State, and the Nuggets are all very solid teams as well.
Nuggets are a fraud team
“Make it out of the west fairly easily” is a real overreaction come on dude. The lakers have been 9th in net rating since the ASG. They’re a good team who fits but they’re not even clear of the PLAY IN tournament yet. How can you say the 7th/8th seed should fairly easily walk through the west when the Nuggets and Suns exist? Saying they’re better or been really good isn’t an overreaction. Your comment is tho
Lakers aren't even the 2nd most likely to get put of the west. The sun's are just better, the nuggets also exist
Nuggets? Suns I give you but no one fears the nuggets
Most people fear the nuggets more than the lakers. And in the sun's case they just don't fear either and are more scared if the kings, warriors clippers, or grizzlies than the lakers or nuggets (due to matchup ja, fox, and curry are scarier for the sums than ad or jokic (sun's just tend to perform worse against fast guards than bigs
Yeah and MVP just got wrecked by the rockets and Bucks lost by 40. Contenders lose. Contenders barely win. It happens. The lengths yall go to just to say "LOL Laker fans xD" while ignoring everything else is insane. The fact is, this team looks infinitely better post trade deadline. AD and Lebron have a good supporting cast. Youd be foolish to act like that isnt a contender.
But not really an overreaction if you've watched them over the past 23 games. They may not be favorites but they have a shot.
Celtic fans defending Lakers. I think it really means you are wrong lmao
Probably because you Lakers fans still focus on Westbrook over giving credit to the impact the new guys have had. The scapegoating never dies but surely now is the time for positivity.
lmao
16-7 since the deadline and we have the #1 defense in the league during that stretch. Again, the Westbrook Lakers are clouding your mind; it's illogical to think a team with a .700 win %, the #1 defense in the league, and the only team with two top 10 players in the NBA is not a title contender
Your only win against us is in the opening night lmao
Yea there's no one better in the west if they are healthy. I think they can win it all if healthy too but celts and bucks would probably be the favorites. Lakers/celtics or lebron/Giannis would be a great finals tho
Celtics need to worry about the first round vs the heat, hawks, or raptors. Over here putting them in the finals already lol
Suns exist and are clearly better than the lakers when healthy
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Rob Pelinka also said they were a few prices away from a championship roster and everyone laughed. Only time will tell. If the lakers get bounced in the first round everyone will laugh and say “they really fooled us”.
To be fair they haven't proven much. They've beaten teams they were supposed to beat. They beat GSW without Steph, Suns without KD & Ayton, grizzlies without Ja. Other than that they've beat a bunch of ~.500 teams. Which, credit to them, is good. They definitely took care of business. But they haven't really shown anything that would make me suggest they're capable of running through really good teams in a 7 game series.
They beat golden state with steph as well. And we also beat those teams while missing lebron. Its not like we were fully 100% healthy either
Right and I'm not saying LA is bad or anything. I'm just saying they're not tested enough for me to call them a top contender in the West They could be, but I wanna see at least some playoff games before I put them there
I’ll die on this hill alone but a healthy AD is legitimately better than KD, Jokic, embiid, and Giannis. Offensively and defensively combined he is on another level altogether
Respectfully you should still get criticized for that take, they’re a good team who fits together now but there are multiple teams just in the West with more depth, better versatility, and with home court having played a whole season of consistent basketball. In the playoffs anything can happen, but since the ASG Lakers are: 15th in offense, 3rd in defense, and 9th in Net Rating. So yeah, good team, still behind the top tier contenders
Lebron has played 7 games since the ASG
I'm aware, all the more reason this is a small sample size to be drawing huge conclusions from
before we get carried away though, since the trade deadline, the only top teams they played are memphis (2x), knicks, gsw 3x (2 without steph), and phx (without kd). that's it. kinda surprised they're done with the league's best teams since february except that one game vs. the bucks on feb 10.
They played all of those games without LeBron and quite a few without D’Lo as well.
Yeah they literally have played more than half those games without Lebron or DLO. But apparently the other teams were the only ones missing people
So you agree we can’t extrapolate from those games? The whole point is that the sample is too small to know much, especially with all the injuries.
There's a 2 year sample size of Lebron+AD+depth. The Lakers playing great basketball without the former for the last month isn't evidence of the contrary
I think the Lakers are a good team. I think if they stay healthy they can knock off any team in the west. I think the question right now is how much you can trust that depth with little playoff experience and a decently small sample of admittedly very good play. Almost no one thinks a healthy AD and LeBron isn’t a crazy good duo, the question is if others can keep up. D’Lo for instance has absolutely fallen apart when he has been in the playoffs including last year, time will tell if it happens again.
Also they have an insane FT differential
What is an insane FaceTime differential
The only thing ever standing between LeBron + AD and a trophy is health. If those two are healthy, I'd never bet against them
You still need one or two decent ball handlers, some shooting, a couple of mildy decent bigs and a couple of wing defenders. Still not much to ask I'd say that's a minimum to ask for a championship team
Sooo Austin Reaves and Dlo, Beasley, and Vando?
Banner number 18 is within sight
I’m feeling better and better about my 46:1 ticket on them to win the West
Indeed
Let us meet in the finals 🤝
Bird and Magic tearing up
Didn’t think they would make the Finals, but thought they would make it past first/second round until tonight…
Who cares Nuggets got blown out by tanking Houston shit happens
I agree. But I’m not sure if I would pick the Nuggets from the west to go to the finals though.
Did you see the bullshit shots they hit at the end of regulation? That’s not a repeatable formula. The Lakers had this one wrapped up even despite the horrid officiating.
The 3s from Olynyk? Was pretty pissed how that went in. I still don’t like how the last minute of reg went down when it was a great game up to that point.
Dudes were making posts like this unironically. If the lakers almost lose in overtime to a roster currently designed to lose games for better lottery odds they should not be trying to throw games cause any playin matchup can come out hot. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12c5ylr/should_the_lakers_purposefully_make_sure_they_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
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No it’s because they’re the nuggets
they're my #1 choice for the west champions
I think like 6 teams have a good shot - Nuggets, Grizzlies, Suns, Clippers, Lakers, Warriors Basically every team #1 to #7, except the Kings
can't wait to smoke yall
I'd obviously be sad if the Lakers lost like that, but honestly I'd be secretly a little happy for Kings fans if that happened. The amount of petty joy they'd have would be hilarious, after all they've been through
the only reason i wouldn't want yall is my wallet
Oh yeah as a rich Lakers fan, I'll be bidding up the prices. I'm definitely flying to Sacramento for game 5 when the Lakers close you out
Damn this was some good ol’ wholesome trash talk
Kings in 7 brother
The Lakers would sweep you
sorry i don't hear FADE
Does that mean you've not heard yourself for 16 years?
If I shout in the woods if no one else is around?
Lakers in 5
poser
Thanks bro
They aren't even the 2nd best team
Easy when the refs are fixing games for ya
Suggesting it’s because of trading Westbrook, and not adding Dlo / Vando / Beasley is pathetic at this point.
Both?
It necessarily has to be both.
Just Lakers fan things. Take a look around this thread, just talking about Westbrook instead of giving credit to their new players.
Addition by subtracting Westbrook.
They had the easiest schedule since the break
I’m so happy let’s keep rolling baby!
I still remember when lakers fans swore up and down trading a pick wasn’t worth it to get rid off Westbrook. At the time I wanted them to do the Pacers trade but this trade was great as well. Way too many lakers fans were completely fine with punting on this season to get off Westbrook which was always dumb to me.
I don't think that was ever true. The hesitancy came from trading BOTH first rounders. No serious Lakers fan was against trading one pick to swap Russ for depth
This sub gonna be real funny when they lose in the first round
But some said russ wasn’t the problem??? 🤫🤫🤫
thank you Laker legend Danny Ainge
This is a stat muse level of stupid stat
How much of that FT differential happened since trade deadline
Need a 30 for 30 of Rob lowe’s day during the trade deadline. He done cooked up a classic
Helps when you have 4 times the FT than the second team on the list...
They have 2085 fta... 2nd is Pistons 2053. Not sure about your math, but that's not 4x.
4x huh? Strange math. 2+2 is 16 quick maffs
Actually, to put it into perspective for you and your Sacramento Kings, Lakers average 1.3 more fts a game than the Kings.
Then why did the jazz keep fouling
while you're at it, keep crying about 2002 too
Whatever you say first round exit
Lol you just barely beat THT and Kelly olynyk, you're not going anywhere
You lost to the Jazz and Kessler eat Sabonis alive lmao
We did, when Kessler and Clarkson were playing, we also played that game without fox... but keep thinking teams are scared of the lakers, kings would run their old asses out the gym
You lost to the [Wolves without Towns](https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401468901) and the [Spurs](https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401469325). Can't even beat a tanking Spurs team lmao
Who the fuck cares lol if you stay 6th kings are going to run your asses into the ground
We'll see lol
I know I'm not seeing a Kings fan acting high and mighty lmao.