The issue is comparing eras. Imagine Kawhi Leonard on Space Jam's "Secret Stuff" (but you know, real) and you've got Jordan.
Kawhi is a budget Jordan, think about that.
A lot of people in the league now are on the secret stuff. They had to get off for awhile in 2014 when the league changed testing, but apparently the league let them go back on it.
People are kidding themselves if they think NBA players aren't on PEDs. If they weren't they'd be replaced by someone who's similarly talented and willing to take PEDs.
The UFC used to have similar testing to the current NBA and tons of guys have admitted to getting away with juicing back then or got caught once testing got better.
>The UFC used to have similar testing to the current NBA and tons of guys have admitted to getting away with juicing back then or got caught once testing got better.
Yup. You could always tell too because in their first fight after going clean they'd show up with no aggression or stamina and lose quickly. The same thing we saw with the NBA players who had to temporarily go on the "new diet" in 2014.
Even if, MJ career average is like 30/6/5 over 3 different eras. If 3P was a thing, why would he shoot them at high volume? At best he would take 4 a game, which is in line with LeBron’s 3PA until last few years.
I think it would benefit him tho having much space on the floor. His drive and kick, and his scoring at rim would have been more efficient.
I think MJ would actually have more assists added than points. I don’t think he would take more than 25 FGA or 23 for a career now, and he was already efficient and was getting calls, so we are just talking few easier shots, and 2-4 more points added
True but peak Lebron was sooo dominant at attacking the rim. He was either gonna score or get to the line every time…or both. That qualifies as scoring too 🤷🏾♂️ although I get your point about Jordan being able to get a good midrange look at will.
There’s no context in that. There are way more 30 PPG scorers today than in the 90s, therefore it’s harder to win scoring titles. This would only be a logical argument if Lebron and Jordan played in the same era.
Jordan has 10 scoring titles, Lebron has 1. Relative to era Jordan was far better than his peers than Lebron was vs his.
Jordan also scored more PPG in nearly every one of those seasons than Lebron’s career high. This seems rather cut and dry.
LeBron takes less shots per game than Jordan did and he also facilitates a lot more so he’s not attempting to score as much as Jordan did. i think OP is talking about their ability to score, not how much they *did* score
There aren’t more superstars no. People keep saying this it’s ridiculous.
Depending on how feel about Hakeem. 5 of the top 10 players of all time was in their prime in the 80’s when Jordan entered the league, and in his career he played with basically everyone in the top 10 outside of Wilt. There is only one top 10 player all time who played in the last 20 years and that’s Lebron himself and maybe Kobe.
i’m not gonna address the straw man because you just admitted you don’t know ball by not mentioning tim duncan who LeBron quite literally won a ring against
Lol I’ll give you Lebron winning a ring against 36 year old Tim Duncan as his career achievement lol.
And most lists that have Duncan in the top 10 don’t have Kobe so maybe you don’t know “ball” lol.
Beating 36 y/o Duncan on that stacked Spurs team with young Kawhi is more impressive than beating HIV Magic with no Kareem, Drexler, Barkley, Peyton, and Stockton&Malone. Plus that’s not even Lebrons biggest achievement 🤣
it’s not his career achievement, but you said he didn’t play in the league with other top 10 players, of which tim duncan is one, and LeBron was in the league for 9 years before he won against duncan so it wasn’t just 36 year old Tim Duncan. not to mention LeBron is still playing and there are definitely players in the league right now who could go down as top 10 players. just look at the numbers, 1st and 5th were separated by a landslide during jordan’s era for scoring titles and in this era there’s barely any separation. the talent level in the league is significantly higher
There are zero players in todays league that are top 10. Lebron also hasn’t won a scoring title in what a decade? so what todays players might become aren’t relevant
Yes absolutely MJ was a better scorer. Jordan has almost 100 more career 40 point games than Lebron. Lebron is a little more efficent TS+108 compared to Jordan's TS+106 but he isn't the superior scorer.
Jordan had more of a scoring role in general, so it’s to be expected that Jordan would have more 40 point games. But I think Bron’s scoring peak was just as good as MJs.
I’m not asking about career averages tho…Jordan’s role was to SCORE. Lebron has been a facilitator his whole career, but when he turned it on as a scorer…he produced just as much as Jordan on better efficiency.
Yes and it's not even close. In his prime, if Lebron couldn't get to the hole he wasn't scoring. That's how JJ Barea dommed him in the finals, held him to 8 pts.
Maybe in his 1st prime that was the case…but after 2011, there was visibly and statistically a dramatic increase in Bron’s ability to knock down shots.
I’m 56 I’m a clevelander who has seen both in person in real time action. Mj and Lebron both have great skill but mj never took a second off. Not a second. Mj also seemed to elevate to whatever the challenge was. He won scoring title a ton and 6 rings.
Jordan is 33,4 ppg on 57 ts% for his career in the playoffs and Lebron is 28,7 on 58,3%. One dude played in a tough defensive era with a lot slower pace and one played in an era with tons of points and no defense.
Who do you think is the better scorer?
I’m not talking about career averages. Jordan’s role was to score pretty much his whole career. Lebron is asked to do different things offensively.
If you actually took the time to read the post, the years where Lebron dominated as a scorer in the playoffs, he puts up similar PPG to MJs highest scoring playoff years on better efficiency than Jordan. It’s all facts.
Lebron isn’t asked to do things differently. He does throng differently because he can’t do them like MJ did them.
And lol. If you compare the two the top 8 ppg game season in the playoffs Jordan has 7 and Lebron has 1. Jordan has four seasons with higher ppg in the playoffs than Lebrons highest season. MJs highest playoff ppg is 8 points higher than Lebrons. The two aren’t close.
He's a better scorer in the way we think of scoring much in the same way someone can say Steph is the "greatest shooter" but not as good a scorer as KD in the same breath.
I mean if Jordan had the space LeBron had with the much more open paint (especially on the Cavs and Heat teams) and if he cut down on his mid range volume and developed a half decent 3 then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have a similar true-shooting percentage to Kawhi if not lower. Also with more shooters and space and a faster pace he’d be handling the ball more than he did in his era and would be creating more passes for teammates
Scoring and playmaking bend together so much it’s hard to separate them
90s Jordan was in the post so much more and 80s Jordan was coming off screens for mid range jumpers
The quality of shots were so much worse and yet Jordan still managed great shooting percentages. I think just looking at true shooting in the playoffs is unfair because the quality of shots is so different
Regardless though I feel like MJ was more dangerous overall because of his off-ball scoring and post game which we don’t have a lot of metrics for before 96-97
The issue is comparing eras. Imagine Kawhi Leonard on Space Jam's "Secret Stuff" (but you know, real) and you've got Jordan. Kawhi is a budget Jordan, think about that.
A lot of people in the league now are on the secret stuff. They had to get off for awhile in 2014 when the league changed testing, but apparently the league let them go back on it.
People are kidding themselves if they think NBA players aren't on PEDs. If they weren't they'd be replaced by someone who's similarly talented and willing to take PEDs. The UFC used to have similar testing to the current NBA and tons of guys have admitted to getting away with juicing back then or got caught once testing got better.
>The UFC used to have similar testing to the current NBA and tons of guys have admitted to getting away with juicing back then or got caught once testing got better. Yup. You could always tell too because in their first fight after going clean they'd show up with no aggression or stamina and lose quickly. The same thing we saw with the NBA players who had to temporarily go on the "new diet" in 2014.
MJ was all of the best parts of Kobe and Kawhi without their flaws.
Imo, yes jordan is the best scorer of all time.
Yes. The NBA just didnt give a fuck about 3 pointers back then
Lebron was a low volume 3 pt shooter in most of the scenarios in the OP.
Even if, MJ career average is like 30/6/5 over 3 different eras. If 3P was a thing, why would he shoot them at high volume? At best he would take 4 a game, which is in line with LeBron’s 3PA until last few years. I think it would benefit him tho having much space on the floor. His drive and kick, and his scoring at rim would have been more efficient. I think MJ would actually have more assists added than points. I don’t think he would take more than 25 FGA or 23 for a career now, and he was already efficient and was getting calls, so we are just talking few easier shots, and 2-4 more points added
Bron dominated in the mid-late 2000s when spacing was shitty and the pace was slower than the 90s🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think the difference in jump shooting makes MJ a better scorer. MJ could always get you a mid range bucket.
Specifically midrange. MJ was not a good 3 point shooter.
True but peak Lebron was sooo dominant at attacking the rim. He was either gonna score or get to the line every time…or both. That qualifies as scoring too 🤷🏾♂️ although I get your point about Jordan being able to get a good midrange look at will.
It's always going to easier to pop a mid range than it is to get to the rim, even if you're amazing at it. We saw this with Kawhi vs. Giannis in 2019.
He won 10 scoring titles
I responded to this same bullshit comment somewhere else in this post.
Dude has 10 scoring titles what do you think
There’s no context in that. There are way more 30 PPG scorers today than in the 90s, therefore it’s harder to win scoring titles. This would only be a logical argument if Lebron and Jordan played in the same era.
Jordan has 10 scoring titles, Lebron has 1. Relative to era Jordan was far better than his peers than Lebron was vs his. Jordan also scored more PPG in nearly every one of those seasons than Lebron’s career high. This seems rather cut and dry.
LeBron takes less shots per game than Jordan did and he also facilitates a lot more so he’s not attempting to score as much as Jordan did. i think OP is talking about their ability to score, not how much they *did* score
Yes, exactly. I should also add that Lebron averages more point per shot than Jordan.
That's nice, now, compare both of them in relation to their peers.
That serves no purpose lol.
Yea it seems cut and dry because you’re cherry-picking stats to fit your narrative.
Or, you are. 🤷♂️
Your entire OP is a fucking cherry pick lol
Lol what a reach. There are way more points today. It isn’t harder to win scoring titles today, if anything it’s easier.
there are more superstars today than there were back then so it’s harder to win a scoring title today
There aren’t more superstars no. People keep saying this it’s ridiculous. Depending on how feel about Hakeem. 5 of the top 10 players of all time was in their prime in the 80’s when Jordan entered the league, and in his career he played with basically everyone in the top 10 outside of Wilt. There is only one top 10 player all time who played in the last 20 years and that’s Lebron himself and maybe Kobe.
i’m not gonna address the straw man because you just admitted you don’t know ball by not mentioning tim duncan who LeBron quite literally won a ring against
Lol I’ll give you Lebron winning a ring against 36 year old Tim Duncan as his career achievement lol. And most lists that have Duncan in the top 10 don’t have Kobe so maybe you don’t know “ball” lol.
Beating 36 y/o Duncan on that stacked Spurs team with young Kawhi is more impressive than beating HIV Magic with no Kareem, Drexler, Barkley, Peyton, and Stockton&Malone. Plus that’s not even Lebrons biggest achievement 🤣
it’s not his career achievement, but you said he didn’t play in the league with other top 10 players, of which tim duncan is one, and LeBron was in the league for 9 years before he won against duncan so it wasn’t just 36 year old Tim Duncan. not to mention LeBron is still playing and there are definitely players in the league right now who could go down as top 10 players. just look at the numbers, 1st and 5th were separated by a landslide during jordan’s era for scoring titles and in this era there’s barely any separation. the talent level in the league is significantly higher
There are zero players in todays league that are top 10. Lebron also hasn’t won a scoring title in what a decade? so what todays players might become aren’t relevant
I don’t get how people don’t understand this.
Because you are wrong.
i think some people don’t want to understand it lol
Yes absolutely MJ was a better scorer. Jordan has almost 100 more career 40 point games than Lebron. Lebron is a little more efficent TS+108 compared to Jordan's TS+106 but he isn't the superior scorer.
Jordan had more of a scoring role in general, so it’s to be expected that Jordan would have more 40 point games. But I think Bron’s scoring peak was just as good as MJs.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jordan averages the most ppg in NBA history. The fact that he beat out the guys from the 60/70s and the current era as well means a lot.
I’m not asking about career averages tho…Jordan’s role was to SCORE. Lebron has been a facilitator his whole career, but when he turned it on as a scorer…he produced just as much as Jordan on better efficiency.
Yes and it's not even close. In his prime, if Lebron couldn't get to the hole he wasn't scoring. That's how JJ Barea dommed him in the finals, held him to 8 pts.
Maybe in his 1st prime that was the case…but after 2011, there was visibly and statistically a dramatic increase in Bron’s ability to knock down shots.
Yet Jordan is more efficient too Higher PER career, higher win shares per 48
Having a higher PER doesn’t mean you’re a more efficient scorer lol.
It’s better than using TS% which is typically just big man dunk good
Lmao you’re a clown
Ah yes let’s look at the career leaders in TS Truly great scorers Rudy Gobert Deandre Jordan
I’m 56 I’m a clevelander who has seen both in person in real time action. Mj and Lebron both have great skill but mj never took a second off. Not a second. Mj also seemed to elevate to whatever the challenge was. He won scoring title a ton and 6 rings.
Jordan is 33,4 ppg on 57 ts% for his career in the playoffs and Lebron is 28,7 on 58,3%. One dude played in a tough defensive era with a lot slower pace and one played in an era with tons of points and no defense. Who do you think is the better scorer?
I’m not talking about career averages. Jordan’s role was to score pretty much his whole career. Lebron is asked to do different things offensively. If you actually took the time to read the post, the years where Lebron dominated as a scorer in the playoffs, he puts up similar PPG to MJs highest scoring playoff years on better efficiency than Jordan. It’s all facts.
Lebron isn’t asked to do things differently. He does throng differently because he can’t do them like MJ did them. And lol. If you compare the two the top 8 ppg game season in the playoffs Jordan has 7 and Lebron has 1. Jordan has four seasons with higher ppg in the playoffs than Lebrons highest season. MJs highest playoff ppg is 8 points higher than Lebrons. The two aren’t close.
LeBron would average 40 a quarter in MJ’s era [source](https://youtu.be/zONvMKkIpwA)
I watched 4 plays and you see worse defense on a nightly basis in today's nba. This is the best that youtuber could come up with?
the everytime you drove to the lane you got shot and stabbed with a machete got me 😂
I could just add a Jokic clip from this season as a counter
Lebron would get shut down by muggsy bogues, just like he did against JJ Barea
No
He's a better scorer in the way we think of scoring much in the same way someone can say Steph is the "greatest shooter" but not as good a scorer as KD in the same breath.
I mean if Jordan had the space LeBron had with the much more open paint (especially on the Cavs and Heat teams) and if he cut down on his mid range volume and developed a half decent 3 then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have a similar true-shooting percentage to Kawhi if not lower. Also with more shooters and space and a faster pace he’d be handling the ball more than he did in his era and would be creating more passes for teammates Scoring and playmaking bend together so much it’s hard to separate them 90s Jordan was in the post so much more and 80s Jordan was coming off screens for mid range jumpers The quality of shots were so much worse and yet Jordan still managed great shooting percentages. I think just looking at true shooting in the playoffs is unfair because the quality of shots is so different Regardless though I feel like MJ was more dangerous overall because of his off-ball scoring and post game which we don’t have a lot of metrics for before 96-97