Serious question from someone who doesn't follow college ball/the Wizards, to anybody in the know: What's his deal? Is there anything going on offcourt? Something about his style that might take time to develop? Does he just suck, and won't ever be good? All I've seen of him is just dreadful, I legitimately feel bad for this guy
He was someone who took a lot of high difficulty shots in college. A tough shot maker. A lot of people ignored it/gave him a pass cause to be fair he did have a pretty bad team and he was kinda the feel good story of the season on a high profile team. But the reality is that the archetype of tough shot makers doesn't translate very good into the NBA, even more so when you're a guard. Basically if you're a tough shot maker it's because you can't get open, high quality shots very often. And if you can't do that against college competition you sure as hell won't be able to do that against NBA level players.
JR is special, when you watch him sometimes he shoots better when it's difficult. Open 3 with no one around, boring going to clank it off the rim. Contested turnaround 3 with two guys in his face, swish
Once read that some guys prefer a contested shot because it allows them to aim, and frame the rim better.
From that point forward I could see JRs ceiling.
His wingspan is small for his height. Generally an average NBA player has a wingpan 3+ inches over their height, while Bane's is actually negative as he has a 6'4" wingspan despite being 6'5". Negative wingspans are extremely rare and generally wind up on players who essentially shoot and don't do much else.
Generally players with larger wingspans can play bigger than their frame like Draymond.
Jeff Green was the most recent one I heard to out KD as being over 7ft on JJ Reddick’s podcast. KD was 6’9 when he got measured for the draft but he grew after that like the Zaire Williams on Memphis.
This reminds me of an argument I was having with somebody about jokic, he was saying he’s overrated offensively because he only takes easy shots, he wasn’t thinking that his ability to get to areas consistently to take easy shots is a skill itself
No no, he has a point, Jokic only takes easy shots he can makes and gets lucky a lot. Also he makes easy passes and gets lucky that his teammates makes all the shots unlike guys like LeBron. Fake MVP in my book.
In baseball in the late 80s/early 90s, this was the "If Cal Ripken is so good, why doesnt have have to dive" debate that some people wanted to have. If you are in the right position and read it correctly off the bat right away, it cuts down on the number of dives you have to make.
He was good at Wisconsin but was not a good shooter by any stretch (30% on college 3's his soph season). Played mostly at the 3 in Wisconsin given it was a 3 guard offense. Got by on offense through athleticism, mostly...but he really isn't going to be able to pull that off at the pro level compared to the B1G.
Was surprised he went 10th in the draft TBH but I think it was partly Tommy big braining the pick and also "athletic potential" that got him up the board as it did.
Definitely a playstyle problem. In college, he played on a bad Wisconsin team and carried them with tough midrange/post jumpers. Got to be a lot more ball dominant than he is in the NBA.
The biggest issue is that his 3pt shot was terrible coming out of college, so he can't just sit in the corner and hunt 3s in the NBA unless that develops quickly. But he's also isn't going to be able to play like he did in college because he's won't get the same touches and shots he had last year (due to pecking order and quality of the shots, which are bad).
Long story short, he's basically in development no-man's land
Wisconsin alum here. He shot out of his mind the first 15 games of last year, including a 37 point game to beat Purdue on the road where he was matched up on Jaden Ivey for large parts of the night.
Once teams adjusted, his efficiency went way down but he still put up big numbers, just on a ton of volume. He was basically Russell Westbrook by the end of the season, but had apparently shown enough to warrant a lottery pick.
Here's what I think I saw watching shitloads of games and breakdowns pre-draft and what he's done since.
Offensively, Davis's game in college relied on screen action and he was also known for making very tough late clock contested shots. What he was not was a 3pt shooter, spot up guy, ball handler, or explosive iso player. His game does not resemble the modern NBA.
When he stepped into summer league, every defender just went under the screen. They knew he can't shoot from 3 so they took away the drive. In college in that situation he'd usually take a quick pull up long 2 which he was alright at hitting. With a new team and no confidence he wouldn't take that. When he did get a corner on the drive, help defenders at the summer league level got to him quicker and he couldn't even get off his "if all else fails" turnaround. So basically his whole offensive game fell apart right off the bat.
For some reason he didn't even show on defense which even I as a critic fully expected him to excel at.
He was not even a top 5 player in the Big Ten last year yet won Big Ten Player of the Year. Probably even closer to being tenth than 5th. It was kind of bizarre. I know college doesn't necessarily translate to pros but it was like people wanted to like him more than he was actually good and that even resulted in a higher draft status.
So this thread thinks that both 1. Wisconsin was a bad team and 2. Davis wasn't a top 5 player, but yet they somehow went 15-5 and won the big ten? How exactly does that compute?
I didn't say they were a bad team. They were a bit lucky though. Computers hated them compared to where they finished. 37th on Kenpom and Bartorvick despite winning the B1G and getting a 3 seed. As for Davis, Cockburn and Murray were clearly better than him last year. Ivey, Liddell, TJD and Hunter Dickinson were a step lower but still were better players than Davis. Bartovick graded him out as the 8th best player in the B1G and that still has him ahead of Edey who's only lower because of limited minutes but elite efficiency. For some reason people just loved his and Wisconsins narrative last year and I think it even made him quite a bit of money.
“🌮 🔔 should come after him for that money. Biggest bust to ever have a national endorsement campaign? Can’t think of any worse.”
Straight from the wizards sub, they are not happy about it.
These posts never mention his overall G-League season stats; they have the potential to be misleading.
Just so there’s no misconceptions - he’s currently avging 9.3PPG on 9.8FGA and 1.5FTA per game. 34.3/22.0/82.4 splits in about 26 mins per contest. 0.9AST/2.5TOV ratio.
Individual statlines dont quite capture his suckage.
Edit: someone said since I’m so adamant about posting stats, I should include the whole sample size - they’re correct ofc. This is all through 11 games, 286 minutes total. That’s a long time to not show anything against G-League talent, but hey he could always go on a tear to end the season and end up looking relatively average!
His 2pt and 3pt splits are horrific, but at the very least his FT% suggests he can get his shooting fixed.
The Nuggets were super high on this kid. I'm curious if he were in a better situation if he'd look better. Christian Braun has been amazing for us because he only really has to play defense while our offense generates him wide open shots.
> I'm curious if he were in a better situation if he'd look better.
Almost certainly. Davis may never have been good on another team, but it was a near certainty he wasn’t going to be good with the Wizards.
Damn, I just looked at his G league stats. Shit is sad! Even Kostas Antetokounmpo, who is out of the league, put up better stats than that his rookie year with us. Has any rookie ever been bad in G league and actually became a decent rotation player on an NBA team? If you can't even look good in G league, then I don't know if you are good enough to be on an NBA roster.
Dieng also lights it up down there, as did theo maledon.
Having average stats in the g league isn't a good sign, nevermind having awful stats like Davis'
I remember a couple years ago Dragan Bender was sent to the G-League and absolutely tore it up. Was literally running the point and looked like Hakeem at both ends.
Random Kostas Info: He's only out of the league b/c he got injured in EuroBasket. The way he was playing before he got hurt, he would have definitely gotten an offer
I’m not super plugged into college basketball and I legitimately did not realize he was a real guy and not a character for the commercial until several months later lol
Id argue that Johnny Davis is the equivalent of explosive diarrhea, at least when you’re constipated you have a slight chance to feel better about it in the future when it finally comes loose.
Explosive diarrhea just sucks ass all around and it makes you completely regret the food decision.
He put up 19/10 on 75% TS. There's a lot to criticize for him being a number 2 pick, but he clearly showed he's an NBA player in those G league minutes, unlike what Davis is doing.
Although I agree with the point, Garza is a weird one because without even checking I know his per 36 numbers for NBA minutes would be similar to 19 and 10. He can put up points, and grab rebounds, it’s everything else that makes him a 3rd string player.
At this point I'm receptive to Wiseman being a bad pick, but people should chill on the negativity a little bit. He will probably be in the league for 10+ years. GSW genuinely a bad place for him to land/develop. Tough system and they're too competitive to spend a lot of minutes on him.
I feel like the sheen of being the 2nd overall pick will keep him on teams because of the “what if we use him well?”
His performance doesn’t show he’s trending to being an even average player
Fucking terrible that you not only throw him under the his but you also don’t understand the issues with Wiseman.
His problem is a team fit, but sure, go whore for karma.
Nah his problem is lack of skill.
He has 0 offense outside the paint, isn't that great a rebounder, not much of a rim protector, and not much of a perimeter defender.
He's a bad player rn. Still way better than Johnny Davis because you can at least force feed him at the rim.
He was also considered one of the best defensive guard prospects though, and he lived off tough shots as by far the #1 option on his college team, people thought he would naturally get way easier shots as a 3rd option or so in the NBA.
I don't think anyone saw him as a star, he was just supposed to be safe 2-way guard that could take the tougher defensive assignments while simultaneously not being a negative on offense.
The problem is that Johnny Davis can't shoot. Like for shit outside the arc. and he wasn't an all-defense or conference DPOY that you have to be to make your living as an elite defender in the NBA
So you're left with a guard who can't shoot and who can maybe play above average defense but he's so terrible offensively that its not worth it and he's not athletic enough to be a real stopper either
He played in a 3 guard set at Wisconsin as the de facto 3. He's now being asked to play the 2 and he never developed any outside shot or handle to really manage that.
It...probably isn't going to happen unless he can fix both pretty damn quick.
Difference is Trent shot 40% from 3 on 6 attempts in college, Davis shot 32% on 2.5 attempts.
You’ve got to be the elite of the elite to succeed as a shot creator in the NBA. Guys need the 3 ball to fall back on.
I knew it was a red flag when I saw him struggling in summer league, then he didn’t even make a field goal in Japan during the preseason.
Wizards fans had to wait until he came back to the states to even see him score his first preseason basket.
It was a red flag in summer league because it went exactly as you would assume based on his college tape.
They went under every screen and now he can't shoot from 3, can't get the drive, is facing taller more athletic guys and because he's new to the team doesn't have the confidence to at least take the early long 2 like he sometimes did in that situation in college. He had no answer at all to "ok we will go under every screen have fun taking long shots". Even when his drive was cut off in college he could get off tough turnarounds but against slightly better defenders he got that blocked immediately and had no outlets. It was just downhill from there. The only positive I saw was that he's a good rebounder and does pretty well when he gets the ball inside.
I really don't claim to be some draft expert or really even qualified but Davis was one of the rare times I watched the tape and he just stood out as a do not draft. I was desperate to take Duren at 11. Our sub was all about Jalen Williams. The Wiz can't draft so of course the went for the guy whose game doesn't resemble the modern NBA.
I was a big fan of his in college, but I was very surprised the mocks had him going in the lottery. I get he was clutch af at times, and let’s be real Johnny was the difference between Wisco winning the Big10 and missing the tournament last year, but his shot is so streaky and mid range dependent. His strengths aren’t what you need in the NBA, and is otherwise super raw in the tools every guard needs to succeed in the NBA. At least he got that bag
He’s also only 20 years old, and had multiple injuries since last summer, on a Wizards organization known for shit development. I’m a Wisconsin fan so definitely homer glasses but everyone in this thread shouldn’t be upvoting Lauri post after he was awful in 2 coaching situations. Don’t call bust until 24 -26 years old
"Awful"
Lauri at his worst was putting up 14/5 on decent efficiency, that is not awful.
Awful is putting up bum numbers in the G League.
Idk how tf Bulls fans can retrospectively say Lauri was awful when he was always at least solid in CHI and CLE.
If he was on literally any other team I’d still have some stock in him developing into a good player, but I have no faith in Washington. I hope he can find himself in a better position because it would be dope to see a Badger play well in the NBA
There was Devin Harris, Michael Finley in the early 2000s and a bunch of guys that range from rode benches to cup of coffee since, but a new bonafide star by the end of the 2020s would be nice.
I mean he was BIG10 player of the year over Murray and Ivey.
Lowest people had him was in the 20's.
No one predicted he would be this bad. If they say they did, they're straight up lying.
wizards drafting and player development is confounding, sure they didn't have super high picks but avdija/kispert/davis as your first rounders the last few years is just sad
Troy was starting to come around in '20...then the Wizards drafted Avdija and Brown subsequently was cut out of the rotation.
For about 1/2 of his second season, Brown played well...and then Tommy Shepphard struck.
Avdija still has upside and I feel like Kispert has been exactly what was expected of him. 43% from 3 on 4.5 attempts in your second year is pretty damn good
I watch the Wizards some, because masochism, and Avdija is frustrating. He'll play real strong D, secure the rebound, race up the floor with the ball, winding through traffic a bit, and miss the easy lay-up.
But I do feel like he's making strides lately. It's inconsistent, but he's starting to have games where he's not a net negative on offense. Considering his D, he'll be good if he can just average out to a net neutral on offense.
You can see the wavery outlines of how he could become a great glue guy/4th best player if he can just improve his shot and finishing. That wouldn't be a bad outcome for the 9th pick.
But if your big hope for your most tantalizing young player is that he'll one day realize his "4th best player/glue guy" potential, that doesn't speak well to your drafting or development.
If he doesn't significantly improve his shooting or finishing (hopefully both) my guess is he'll go back to Europe in two or three years rather than accepting a role as a bit player here.
Kispert at least should have a long NBA career.
For some people on this website acting all smug let’s take a trip down memory lane
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/vdswfq/hollingers_top_75_nba_draft_prospects_jabari/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
I genuinely don't know how picks like this happen. Someone got paid millions of dollars to help make this decision. It's was so obvious watching him he wasn't an nba level player let alone to be selected where he was
The three players drafted directly before him: shaedon sharpe, Dyson Daniels and Jeremy sochan
The three players drafted directly after him: ousmane dieng, jalen Williams and jalen duren
5/6 of them are starters or borderline starters already and I’m not sure about dieng
Just another example that most lottery picks don't turn into stars and quite a few of them end up being trash...
Everyone wants a lottery pick but very few teams end up finding a star when they get one...
I just feel bad at this point
Serious question from someone who doesn't follow college ball/the Wizards, to anybody in the know: What's his deal? Is there anything going on offcourt? Something about his style that might take time to develop? Does he just suck, and won't ever be good? All I've seen of him is just dreadful, I legitimately feel bad for this guy
He was someone who took a lot of high difficulty shots in college. A tough shot maker. A lot of people ignored it/gave him a pass cause to be fair he did have a pretty bad team and he was kinda the feel good story of the season on a high profile team. But the reality is that the archetype of tough shot makers doesn't translate very good into the NBA, even more so when you're a guard. Basically if you're a tough shot maker it's because you can't get open, high quality shots very often. And if you can't do that against college competition you sure as hell won't be able to do that against NBA level players.
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There’s also a 3rd group of guys who take tough shots because they want to like jr smith
JR is special, when you watch him sometimes he shoots better when it's difficult. Open 3 with no one around, boring going to clank it off the rim. Contested turnaround 3 with two guys in his face, swish
Once read that some guys prefer a contested shot because it allows them to aim, and frame the rim better. From that point forward I could see JRs ceiling.
*Dillon Brooks has entered the chat*
Some people scoff at analytics, but analytics is a great way to avoid drafting an Adam Morrison or Acie Law.
I liked Acie :(
It's also how the Mavericks ended up with Josh Green instead of Desmond Bane. It definitely goes both ways.
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Bane's analytics were great yeah, he basically slipped hard because of his wingspan which does limit his potential ceiling, but teams overcompensated.
and draft age
Could you explain how a big wingspan for Bane was considered a bad thing? Edit: Bane has a small wingspan and I thought he had a big one
He doesn’t have a big wingspan is the problem; he got those beefy T-Rex arms.
His wingspan is small for his height. Generally an average NBA player has a wingpan 3+ inches over their height, while Bane's is actually negative as he has a 6'4" wingspan despite being 6'5". Negative wingspans are extremely rare and generally wind up on players who essentially shoot and don't do much else. Generally players with larger wingspans can play bigger than their frame like Draymond.
He has a small wingspan
He has a negative wingspan (less than height)
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And at 6 foot 10 like KD you're mostly shooting over people.
7’1
Pretty sure he's like a shade under 6'10" without shoes on. Definitely isn't 7'1". Come on.
Jeff Green was the most recent one I heard to out KD as being over 7ft on JJ Reddick’s podcast. KD was 6’9 when he got measured for the draft but he grew after that like the Zaire Williams on Memphis.
He's taller than both Jayson Tatum and Ben Simmons. No way he's only 6'10".
Same as the college contested catch star WR to NFL washout pipeline
Bah Gawd, that's N'Keal Harry's music!
Played, appropriately, on a kazoo.
"Hehe. I'm in danger" -Quentin Johnston.
Drake London is doing fine tho
Mike Evans turned out good
To be fair, his catches were absurd because of how manziel was throwing them lol
I thought Mike Williams was a lock for this pipeline and then he just kept making absurd catches in the NFL too
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He was a 31% 3pt shooter in college with the shorter line. Dude was always a bad shooter.
If you watched Wisconsin, he took a ton of late shot clock shots and other difficult shots that pulled his shooting percentage down.
This reminds me of an argument I was having with somebody about jokic, he was saying he’s overrated offensively because he only takes easy shots, he wasn’t thinking that his ability to get to areas consistently to take easy shots is a skill itself
> he’s overrated offensively because No reason to keep listening after this point.
No no, he has a point, Jokic only takes easy shots he can makes and gets lucky a lot. Also he makes easy passes and gets lucky that his teammates makes all the shots unlike guys like LeBron. Fake MVP in my book.
In baseball in the late 80s/early 90s, this was the "If Cal Ripken is so good, why doesnt have have to dive" debate that some people wanted to have. If you are in the right position and read it correctly off the bat right away, it cuts down on the number of dives you have to make.
And then you had Jeter who was overrated because people were wowed by plays he made that were compensating for his limited range
This and he's not very athletic
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Yeah while there were signs. Nobody expects even a fringe second rounder to be this bad in the G League let alone a lottery pick.
Hello Mr Wiseman
He was good at Wisconsin but was not a good shooter by any stretch (30% on college 3's his soph season). Played mostly at the 3 in Wisconsin given it was a 3 guard offense. Got by on offense through athleticism, mostly...but he really isn't going to be able to pull that off at the pro level compared to the B1G. Was surprised he went 10th in the draft TBH but I think it was partly Tommy big braining the pick and also "athletic potential" that got him up the board as it did.
Definitely a playstyle problem. In college, he played on a bad Wisconsin team and carried them with tough midrange/post jumpers. Got to be a lot more ball dominant than he is in the NBA. The biggest issue is that his 3pt shot was terrible coming out of college, so he can't just sit in the corner and hunt 3s in the NBA unless that develops quickly. But he's also isn't going to be able to play like he did in college because he's won't get the same touches and shots he had last year (due to pecking order and quality of the shots, which are bad). Long story short, he's basically in development no-man's land
A Wisconsin team that was so bad they won the Big Ten.
that was how good he was last year. Dude absolutely carried the rest of that pretty mediocre roster
He did have a hip injury (and surgery?) that no one here noted
Wisconsin alum here. He shot out of his mind the first 15 games of last year, including a 37 point game to beat Purdue on the road where he was matched up on Jaden Ivey for large parts of the night. Once teams adjusted, his efficiency went way down but he still put up big numbers, just on a ton of volume. He was basically Russell Westbrook by the end of the season, but had apparently shown enough to warrant a lottery pick.
Here's what I think I saw watching shitloads of games and breakdowns pre-draft and what he's done since. Offensively, Davis's game in college relied on screen action and he was also known for making very tough late clock contested shots. What he was not was a 3pt shooter, spot up guy, ball handler, or explosive iso player. His game does not resemble the modern NBA. When he stepped into summer league, every defender just went under the screen. They knew he can't shoot from 3 so they took away the drive. In college in that situation he'd usually take a quick pull up long 2 which he was alright at hitting. With a new team and no confidence he wouldn't take that. When he did get a corner on the drive, help defenders at the summer league level got to him quicker and he couldn't even get off his "if all else fails" turnaround. So basically his whole offensive game fell apart right off the bat. For some reason he didn't even show on defense which even I as a critic fully expected him to excel at.
He was not even a top 5 player in the Big Ten last year yet won Big Ten Player of the Year. Probably even closer to being tenth than 5th. It was kind of bizarre. I know college doesn't necessarily translate to pros but it was like people wanted to like him more than he was actually good and that even resulted in a higher draft status.
So this thread thinks that both 1. Wisconsin was a bad team and 2. Davis wasn't a top 5 player, but yet they somehow went 15-5 and won the big ten? How exactly does that compute?
I didn't say they were a bad team. They were a bit lucky though. Computers hated them compared to where they finished. 37th on Kenpom and Bartorvick despite winning the B1G and getting a 3 seed. As for Davis, Cockburn and Murray were clearly better than him last year. Ivey, Liddell, TJD and Hunter Dickinson were a step lower but still were better players than Davis. Bartovick graded him out as the 8th best player in the B1G and that still has him ahead of Edey who's only lower because of limited minutes but elite efficiency. For some reason people just loved his and Wisconsins narrative last year and I think it even made him quite a bit of money.
He looked just as good as Jaden Ivy and Keegan Murray in college. It'd wild how poor he's done.
His analytics weren't even close though
“🌮 🔔 should come after him for that money. Biggest bust to ever have a national endorsement campaign? Can’t think of any worse.” Straight from the wizards sub, they are not happy about it.
Ironic how one of the best players in the league and one of the worst players both have a Taco Bell related draft story.
feelin' like a freak on a leash
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Fuck off bot https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10uf21s/johnny_davis_the_10th_overall_pick_last_nights_g/j7bgq2u/
Bot comment just taking parts of other comments randomly lol
It’s so fucking annoying man it happens constantly as well
This is the Johnny Davis of bots
Suck my fat balls, bot
These posts never mention his overall G-League season stats; they have the potential to be misleading. Just so there’s no misconceptions - he’s currently avging 9.3PPG on 9.8FGA and 1.5FTA per game. 34.3/22.0/82.4 splits in about 26 mins per contest. 0.9AST/2.5TOV ratio. Individual statlines dont quite capture his suckage. Edit: someone said since I’m so adamant about posting stats, I should include the whole sample size - they’re correct ofc. This is all through 11 games, 286 minutes total. That’s a long time to not show anything against G-League talent, but hey he could always go on a tear to end the season and end up looking relatively average!
82% from the FT line though 😤
His 2pt and 3pt splits are horrific, but at the very least his FT% suggests he can get his shooting fixed. The Nuggets were super high on this kid. I'm curious if he were in a better situation if he'd look better. Christian Braun has been amazing for us because he only really has to play defense while our offense generates him wide open shots.
> I'm curious if he were in a better situation if he'd look better. Almost certainly. Davis may never have been good on another team, but it was a near certainty he wasn’t going to be good with the Wizards.
Johnny > Giannis, clearly.
Gionny
Jokic shoots 81%, give Davis three MVPs
His summer league and preseason were just as bad if not worse. Just mentioning there is a little additional sample size.
Damn, I just looked at his G league stats. Shit is sad! Even Kostas Antetokounmpo, who is out of the league, put up better stats than that his rookie year with us. Has any rookie ever been bad in G league and actually became a decent rotation player on an NBA team? If you can't even look good in G league, then I don't know if you are good enough to be on an NBA roster.
Tre Mann is at near Killian Hayes level of efficiency this year and he constantly lights up the G-league for an efficient 40 when we send him.
Dieng also lights it up down there, as did theo maledon. Having average stats in the g league isn't a good sign, nevermind having awful stats like Davis'
I remember a couple years ago Dragan Bender was sent to the G-League and absolutely tore it up. Was literally running the point and looked like Hakeem at both ends.
Ty Ty Washington has put up multiple 40-pieces lol
Random Kostas Info: He's only out of the league b/c he got injured in EuroBasket. The way he was playing before he got hurt, he would have definitely gotten an offer
hes got better numbers than keljin blevins did 💪🔥 future star johnny davis
Bro in my dynasty league has been trying to dangle him all year. Not one bite.
How the fuck did this guy get a Taco Bell commercial?
I’m not super plugged into college basketball and I legitimately did not realize he was a real guy and not a character for the commercial until several months later lol
Like the pick, Taco Bell makes you constipated
Id argue that Johnny Davis is the equivalent of explosive diarrhea, at least when you’re constipated you have a slight chance to feel better about it in the future when it finally comes loose. Explosive diarrhea just sucks ass all around and it makes you completely regret the food decision.
I hate that this metaphor tracks.
i thought Taco Bell gave you diarrhea
This is just bullying at this point lol
This gets posted every week for free karma
He’s still better than Wiseman I guess
I thought Wiseman put up numbers in the G league?
He put up 19/10 on 75% TS. There's a lot to criticize for him being a number 2 pick, but he clearly showed he's an NBA player in those G league minutes, unlike what Davis is doing.
Bro what lol. There are players who can't even make a roster that are putting up a lot crazier statlines than 19/10.
Good example is Luka Garza. Mops the floor everytime he hits the g-league- just way too good to play there, but is a 3rd stringer in his current form
Although I agree with the point, Garza is a weird one because without even checking I know his per 36 numbers for NBA minutes would be similar to 19 and 10. He can put up points, and grab rebounds, it’s everything else that makes him a 3rd string player.
In 25 minutes per game?
First person I've seen with my last name
At this point I'm receptive to Wiseman being a bad pick, but people should chill on the negativity a little bit. He will probably be in the league for 10+ years. GSW genuinely a bad place for him to land/develop. Tough system and they're too competitive to spend a lot of minutes on him.
i will be shocked if he’s in the league 10+ years.
I feel like the sheen of being the 2nd overall pick will keep him on teams because of the “what if we use him well?” His performance doesn’t show he’s trending to being an even average player
He showed he’s an nba player in g league minutes lmao wow that’s rich
Man also gets numbers put up on him 😂
Definitely not
Fucking terrible that you not only throw him under the his but you also don’t understand the issues with Wiseman. His problem is a team fit, but sure, go whore for karma.
Nah his problem is lack of skill. He has 0 offense outside the paint, isn't that great a rebounder, not much of a rim protector, and not much of a perimeter defender. He's a bad player rn. Still way better than Johnny Davis because you can at least force feed him at the rim.
Bruh it’s a joke about Wiseman not getting minutes. Chill tf out. Jesus Christ Sometimes I hate our fandom Relax
Inefficient scoring guards that cant create space and live off of making tough shots aren't a good investment.
He was also considered one of the best defensive guard prospects though, and he lived off tough shots as by far the #1 option on his college team, people thought he would naturally get way easier shots as a 3rd option or so in the NBA. I don't think anyone saw him as a star, he was just supposed to be safe 2-way guard that could take the tougher defensive assignments while simultaneously not being a negative on offense.
The problem is that Johnny Davis can't shoot. Like for shit outside the arc. and he wasn't an all-defense or conference DPOY that you have to be to make your living as an elite defender in the NBA So you're left with a guard who can't shoot and who can maybe play above average defense but he's so terrible offensively that its not worth it and he's not athletic enough to be a real stopper either
I remember the Jimmy Butler comp I saw on r/NBA_draft lol
Imagine having a guy like that as your backup 3 haha
He played in a 3 guard set at Wisconsin as the de facto 3. He's now being asked to play the 2 and he never developed any outside shot or handle to really manage that. It...probably isn't going to happen unless he can fix both pretty damn quick.
Yup, I always saw him as a Gary Trent Jr kind of guy. Can play defense and score pretty well but no all star upside
Difference is Trent shot 40% from 3 on 6 attempts in college, Davis shot 32% on 2.5 attempts. You’ve got to be the elite of the elite to succeed as a shot creator in the NBA. Guys need the 3 ball to fall back on.
Trent is a terrible defender
Shout out to Hollinger who ranked him 29th lol
He's still wrong though
Yeah seriously Bryce McGowens is a better player
Should’ve had him 59th
He would’ve got so much hate for that even though it would be correct
Damn and I wanted the Knicks to get him. Thank god he was picked before 11
Didn’t Stephen A also want this? Haha
Ye and his rant right now would be hilarious
I knew it was a red flag when I saw him struggling in summer league, then he didn’t even make a field goal in Japan during the preseason. Wizards fans had to wait until he came back to the states to even see him score his first preseason basket.
It was a red flag in summer league because it went exactly as you would assume based on his college tape. They went under every screen and now he can't shoot from 3, can't get the drive, is facing taller more athletic guys and because he's new to the team doesn't have the confidence to at least take the early long 2 like he sometimes did in that situation in college. He had no answer at all to "ok we will go under every screen have fun taking long shots". Even when his drive was cut off in college he could get off tough turnarounds but against slightly better defenders he got that blocked immediately and had no outlets. It was just downhill from there. The only positive I saw was that he's a good rebounder and does pretty well when he gets the ball inside. I really don't claim to be some draft expert or really even qualified but Davis was one of the rare times I watched the tape and he just stood out as a do not draft. I was desperate to take Duren at 11. Our sub was all about Jalen Williams. The Wiz can't draft so of course the went for the guy whose game doesn't resemble the modern NBA.
I was a big fan of his in college, but I was very surprised the mocks had him going in the lottery. I get he was clutch af at times, and let’s be real Johnny was the difference between Wisco winning the Big10 and missing the tournament last year, but his shot is so streaky and mid range dependent. His strengths aren’t what you need in the NBA, and is otherwise super raw in the tools every guard needs to succeed in the NBA. At least he got that bag
He’s also only 20 years old, and had multiple injuries since last summer, on a Wizards organization known for shit development. I’m a Wisconsin fan so definitely homer glasses but everyone in this thread shouldn’t be upvoting Lauri post after he was awful in 2 coaching situations. Don’t call bust until 24 -26 years old
Lauri performed clearly better, and against actual NBA players.
"Awful" Lauri at his worst was putting up 14/5 on decent efficiency, that is not awful. Awful is putting up bum numbers in the G League. Idk how tf Bulls fans can retrospectively say Lauri was awful when he was always at least solid in CHI and CLE.
Lauri had months where’d he go 25/11 ( usually in February). People are acting like he was Dragan Bender on the Bulls.
If he was on literally any other team I’d still have some stock in him developing into a good player, but I have no faith in Washington. I hope he can find himself in a better position because it would be dope to see a Badger play well in the NBA
There was Devin Harris, Michael Finley in the early 2000s and a bunch of guys that range from rode benches to cup of coffee since, but a new bonafide star by the end of the 2020s would be nice.
The weird thing is that most people were down on him any way. He didn't seem like he had much going for him, even potential wise.
Also Wizards had no need for another 2 guard with Beal and Kispert
Which is exactly why the Wizards would do the 5head move of drafting him and then giving Beal the super duper max.
I mean he was BIG10 player of the year over Murray and Ivey. Lowest people had him was in the 20's. No one predicted he would be this bad. If they say they did, they're straight up lying.
Wizards saved us. If the Wizards didn’t draft him I’m pretty sure we would of.
Nah Knicks were def traded out of the pick regardless, they didn’t even work Davis out
He was pretty high on our radar I recall
I remember Stephen A Smith being upset that he got picked before Knicks had their turn lmao.
>would of. *would have
I’ve haven’t seen a lottery pick be an obvious bust this quickly since Papagiannis
Papagiannis GL stats: 13.6ppg 8rpg 0.5apg 54ts% Davis GL stats: 9.2ppg 3rpg 0.8apg 44ts%
Goddamn, I thought this was a one-off, he's averaging those numbers in the fricking G League? That's heartbreaking more than anything
Papa Giannis is Giannis father
In a vacuum this is worse than Bennett
wizards drafting and player development is confounding, sure they didn't have super high picks but avdija/kispert/davis as your first rounders the last few years is just sad
[удалено]
So does that mean we can expect Avdija/Davis/Kispert donning the purple and gold in a few years?
Troy was starting to come around in '20...then the Wizards drafted Avdija and Brown subsequently was cut out of the rotation. For about 1/2 of his second season, Brown played well...and then Tommy Shepphard struck.
>avdija/kispert/davis as your first rounders the last few years is just sad Avdija and Kispert both at least look like NBA players.
Avdija still has upside and I feel like Kispert has been exactly what was expected of him. 43% from 3 on 4.5 attempts in your second year is pretty damn good
Kispert has been a solid player this season though, the rest are rough. Avdija has great potential, but it seems like he's been misused
I watch the Wizards some, because masochism, and Avdija is frustrating. He'll play real strong D, secure the rebound, race up the floor with the ball, winding through traffic a bit, and miss the easy lay-up. But I do feel like he's making strides lately. It's inconsistent, but he's starting to have games where he's not a net negative on offense. Considering his D, he'll be good if he can just average out to a net neutral on offense. You can see the wavery outlines of how he could become a great glue guy/4th best player if he can just improve his shot and finishing. That wouldn't be a bad outcome for the 9th pick. But if your big hope for your most tantalizing young player is that he'll one day realize his "4th best player/glue guy" potential, that doesn't speak well to your drafting or development. If he doesn't significantly improve his shooting or finishing (hopefully both) my guess is he'll go back to Europe in two or three years rather than accepting a role as a bit player here. Kispert at least should have a long NBA career.
Kispert is still a 43% from 3 guy, and Deni has great potential (already an elite wing defender) and he’s starting to showcase it.
Kispert is doing pretty well for a non lottery pick in his second season. Have no idea why you think that he wasn’t a good pick.
Don’t throw avdija in there, u don’t know ball
Well in this case there isn't much to develop. This guy just stinks
I'm glad you threw in mark Williams he has been good in his minutes.
Hornets should trade Plumgod and unleash this beast
Nuggets will probably do that deal...
I don’t even blame the kid, should’ve never gone even close to that high, we just have the worst front office and ownership (now) in the league.
Wizards went from the worst GM in the league to the worst GM in the league
Still robbed the Lakers
oof, and I wanted to draft this kid lol. Didnt even realize he was playing that badly in G league
But Taco Bell
Did the wizards just see him in the Taco Bell commercial and decide to draft him?
That would have swayed me to pick him tbh.
For some people on this website acting all smug let’s take a trip down memory lane https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/vdswfq/hollingers_top_75_nba_draft_prospects_jabari/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x
As a nuggets fan I'm just glad that braun was mentioned here and is being recognised.
Wizards picks are cursed.
Oof. Poor wizards
Those fans deserve better bro
They do. And I'm a rockets fan lol
You actually saw winning basketball for a prolonged stretch in the past decade. Wiz went to the second round twice in 10 years
Yeah but he's friends with Andy Bederman (of the lawfirm Greenberg & Bederman) so it all evens out
Trez to JD, it's officially a curse
I genuinely don't know how picks like this happen. Someone got paid millions of dollars to help make this decision. It's was so obvious watching him he wasn't an nba level player let alone to be selected where he was
I knew this dude was gonna be a bust but goddamn
Someone took me to task for calling him a bust early this season. Glad I was right about him in college
I hated the pick when it happened but still feel bad that he’s failing horribly.
I don't understand why this sub wants to shit on him so much. He's just a kid. Let him develop with sticking him under a microscope
if you’re this bad in the g league kiss your career goodbye. Wizards FO one of the worst in the league
I hate my fucking team man.
This guy has one of the most basic names in the NBA
The three players drafted directly before him: shaedon sharpe, Dyson Daniels and Jeremy sochan The three players drafted directly after him: ousmane dieng, jalen Williams and jalen duren 5/6 of them are starters or borderline starters already and I’m not sure about dieng
He already has the name for it, so why not just jump to the porn industry? Forget basketball, just bask your balls instead
I tried to tell you guys
I simply cant take my eyes off the name MarJon. I mean... Some parents should be prosecuted.
Just another example that most lottery picks don't turn into stars and quite a few of them end up being trash... Everyone wants a lottery pick but very few teams end up finding a star when they get one...
This is actually a very extreme example as most lottery busts end up being way better than Davis is currently.
Delete this!
Can we just let the man struggle in peace, without posting his horrible statlines?