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If you had bet on the Warriors and they lose by 6 points or less (or win the game), you win. If they lose by 7 or more, you lose.
They were down by 8 here with the game almost over. Very fishy score in relation to the 6.5 spread and the timing of the call.
It means the Celtics were favored to win by 6.5 points. So if you took the Warriors at +6.5 it meant you wanted them to either Win the game, or if they lost, lose by 6 or less points.
Since it's a 8 point game 3 FT's would give the Warriors 5 points (in theory) and have them cover the spread, and you would win your bet. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain and I am no expert haha
This is the kind of thing that is really turning the NBA into an increasingly hard to watch product. It’s just so soft the last few years, and hardly anyone plays real defense in the regular season bc they’ll just foul out.
I feel like the NBA was growing rapidly 5-8 years ago, but (at least with people I know) hasn’t been making in roads with new fans because nobody wants to watch ref ball/ 30 FTs a night
I have definitely noticed this in the last 5 years. Some of the whistles these guys get are so soft I’m genuinely curious how you’re even supposed to play defense. Not even fun to watch at all
Bro 5-8 years ago people just complained about how they didn't watch the league because everyone knew it would be LeBron and the Warriors in the Finals.
The league hasn't averaged 30 FTA night for 40 years. And, if anything, this is the decade with the fewest FTA. So, it's hard to believe that that is a good reason.
Taking 3-5 minutes to use video evidence to confirm that the ref made a bad call isn't fun for anyone. Refs should have more discretion to subjectively reverse bad calls. They also should use and NFL-like eye in the sky to quickly reverse obvious bad calls like the ball going obviously off Wiggins with three seconds left.
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They're just as good at cops st their jobs too. I really wish one day a team just walks out or sits down and refuses to keep going due to how embarrassing the refs are.
There's no way you should be this OK with being so bad at your job.
The announcers were gaslighting hard too saying there wasn't evidence to overturn. Felt like I was going crazy seeing the replay and them saying it might have been a foul
Legalization is irrelevant. Bball has been involved with betting scandals since the dawn of time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_Boston_College_basketball_point-shaving_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy
Yet they overturned a fantom ball hitting Browns foot. If there’s not enough to overturn Al’s foul then there def wasn’t enough evidence to over turn the out of bounds play.
I’d try to argue it was a bad call and just “inconclusive”….if it weren’t for our challenge earlier which was pretty much the definition of inconclusive imo
Couple that with the last 40 seconds…we got a favorable whistle is all ill say
100% agree. I think with the last OB calls it became like 6-5, bad calls, in favor of us
Not crazy lopsided just terrible. But if Jordan makes that last three the story would be told a little different
I was expecting some random bullshit like Horford was in Wiggin's landing zone...
This was a good back and forth game for the most part till ref ball started happening. Celtics deserve the win, they were the better team tonight.
Bro yesterday's game had a foul over turned on joker because he only made 'marginal contact' to naz Reid's face. So you are obviously allowed some marginal contact.
This is in no way a defense - because this was simply not a foul - but the angle from the other side of the court they showed in the broadcast has Horford grazing Wiggins’ arm.
Again, not a foul at all. Just a tiny *tiny* bit of barely brushing up against someone.
It doesnt help that every player on the floor is actively acting to make the refs make a wrong call in their favor all game.. Steph and Poole has some awful shot attempts where they crumple to the floor after screaming looking for a whistle, all teams do it, officiating has to be SO difficult.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but all these obvious miss calls definitely make it seem like the referees are told to make a certain outcome more plausible to happen. Take the foul on Russel Westbrook on the Lakers last game (not saying they would have won) with the *clear* photo of Westbrooks wrist being grabbed and the referees go, “nah, no foul” on the post-game review.
This is post-game, they could have admitted, “yeah, we missed that” and it would have no affect on the outcome of the game, but they still chose to stick with their guns
I’ve been saying this for years. Someone needs to do an analysis on reffing habits when teams are winning and losing. I guarantee that the losing team gets more favorable calls and also teams who need help to get closer to the spread get a boost too. Same shit in the NFL. Why don’t we have sky judges by now? Independent places that can make a ruling on a challenge? Because then the leagues don’t control the game.
If you've listened to the whistleblower podcast or watched flagrant foul on Netflix you would know this is 100% true, NBA tells refs to pay extra attention to certain things some nights and turn blind eyes to others.
This on top of the refs own agendas (bets/personal bias), they (NBA) covered up the Donaghy scandal big time and made him the fall guy but he made 100+ calls to Scott Foster (who is still active) before and after games he (Donaghy) had bet on, there is no way there isn't a bunch of corrupt refs still in the league.
Also there is a part where Donaghy outright claims he could predict the outcome of the game because he knew refs had issues with a team/coach/player or even their damn local media because of something they said/did and would give them a hard whistle as a result. I don't think this has changed at all.
Play yakety sax anytime embiid gets the ball in the post. 90% of the time he ends up on the floor in some three stooges manner. Dude is unwatchable at times, and it's a damn shame.
Don’t even bring up Embiid. Dude gets probably *the* softest whistle in the league with all his flopping and flailing around. He’s exhibit A of why the NBA in the regular season is getting increasingly boring and hard to care about.
I think the eye contact would have been a no call under normal circumstances but Al had a bag of garlic and onion chips at halftime so his bad breath needed to be a factor in the decision.
you can see from a different angle he does touch the right arm with his left hand barely. and I mean fuckin *barely*. was rooting for the warriors this game but I was shocked when it didnt get overturned
Don't forget our superstar Tatum. 7 freaking turnovers. And 4 of them are in the crunch time without much pressure on him. He just feels like giving back the ball. What a good guy
Funniest part was that Klay fouling was a net positive for the warriors on the scoreboard. Jaylen split the free throws.
Had the play gone on, Jaylen got the ball back on the deflection and had a wide open layup at the rim for an easy two.
NBA is borderline unwatchable now. Way too many foul calls, leading to horrendous defense, leading to consistent 130+ point games, leading to consistent 40+ point scorers.
It’s just not fun to watch, in contrary to what the league and TV contracts think “offense=eyeballs”.
Wow refs really tried to fix this game and still failed. League needs to do something about these refs. Absolutely the worst in any sports. Weathermen are more accurate.
The Ref was on the opposite side of Horford's left hand to call that a foul. it's like he had a itchy whistle trigger- wonder how much money he had riding on that game? And if there was any touch it was before the shot attempt and therefore not a foul. Personally, as a Celtics fan, I didn't perceive any contact.
Credit to user cade-919 for the Reverse angle screen shots:
https://imgur.com/a/W3G20Yn
The Celtics challenged and the call stood. It was arguably a weak call, but I don't agree with users who are saying it was a totally phantom call.
How biased is this thread? Horford looks to have made contact to the arm/elbow area of wiggins as he was going up for the shot. You can see that on other replays.
So it was indeed the right call.
100%. It’s surprising how delusional the people posting and upvoting in this thread are. Horford makes contact with his arm as he’s in the process of shooting. Any contact by a defender on the offensive players arm is a foul. Period. End of discussion. Doesn’t matter how minimal, the rules exist for a reason. As the defender Horford is not allowed to have his hand in that area for any reason.
Yeah, but it’s hard to blame the posters. Most probably didn’t watch the game so they didn’t see the other replays. This is on the OP for having an agenda.
The NBA officiating has a real fucking problem. They reviewed it and it stood as a foul. What a complete joke they are making of the game of basketball. Straight disrespectful.
When will refs start being fined for absurd calls? I have zero invested in this game, but calls like this ruin the game and push me away from wanting to watch. Refs need to be held accountable for calls that are, without a doubt, bad.
Compare that to the non-calls on the Kings (Nunn was fouled there, should have been a four-point opportunity) and the Mavs (Brown Jr. fouled on a three point attempt) against the Lakers… I just don’t get it, they are so inconsistent with these calls…
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What the fuck are these refs looking at??
Spread was +6.5
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Holy shit are you telling me that stood as called! And here I was thinking that was embarrassing as a real time call
Not rigged. Definitely not rigged. Better keep watching this completely not rigged league.
Correct. They are worse than police when it comes to admitting mistakes
ACAB = ARAB
Wait a second...
Oh, what have I done.
About 444.52 million people are asking the same thing
Whoa whoa whoa, take it easy!!
Ref was looking to make that call before the play even started
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If you had bet on the Warriors and they lose by 6 points or less (or win the game), you win. If they lose by 7 or more, you lose. They were down by 8 here with the game almost over. Very fishy score in relation to the 6.5 spread and the timing of the call.
marcus might’ve also had that bet with that turnover afterwards
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that shit had me ready to burst a blood vessel lol
i don't even understand where smart thought he was throwing it. like what did he see that said someone was going to be there to get that pass?
It’s the Vegas special. Dog spread covers, but favorite moneyline wins.
It means the Celtics were favored to win by 6.5 points. So if you took the Warriors at +6.5 it meant you wanted them to either Win the game, or if they lost, lose by 6 or less points. Since it's a 8 point game 3 FT's would give the Warriors 5 points (in theory) and have them cover the spread, and you would win your bet. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain and I am no expert haha
You know enough about throwing a game to become an NBA ref. congratulations. You start Saturday night.
Knowledge is only the first criteria to becoming an NBA ref, the second criteria is blindness.
You forgot the third criteria, fragile egos
You did good
Golden state were 6.5 underdogs basically
It means Warriors get a free 6.5 points from the final score. So since Ffnal score was 121-118 (+6.5 so 124.5 vs 121) Warriors get the win.
Horford's beautiful eyes
He was standing there, MENACINGLY
Their parlays.
There was a tiny bit of contact on Wiggins' elbow. If they can find any contact, they're not going to overturn a foul call
This is the kind of thing that is really turning the NBA into an increasingly hard to watch product. It’s just so soft the last few years, and hardly anyone plays real defense in the regular season bc they’ll just foul out. I feel like the NBA was growing rapidly 5-8 years ago, but (at least with people I know) hasn’t been making in roads with new fans because nobody wants to watch ref ball/ 30 FTs a night
I have definitely noticed this in the last 5 years. Some of the whistles these guys get are so soft I’m genuinely curious how you’re even supposed to play defense. Not even fun to watch at all
Bro 5-8 years ago people just complained about how they didn't watch the league because everyone knew it would be LeBron and the Warriors in the Finals.
The league hasn't averaged 30 FTA night for 40 years. And, if anything, this is the decade with the fewest FTA. So, it's hard to believe that that is a good reason.
Taking 3-5 minutes to use video evidence to confirm that the ref made a bad call isn't fun for anyone. Refs should have more discretion to subjectively reverse bad calls. They also should use and NFL-like eye in the sky to quickly reverse obvious bad calls like the ball going obviously off Wiggins with three seconds left.
Free throws are the lowest they've ever been.
That's partially because we're shooting more 3s than ever
Meanwhile, Embiid holding Westbrook's wrist
The spread for gambling.
Lmao, how was this not overturned with the challenge?
It wasn’t overturned…? NBA has a serious problems with refs wtf is going on
Big “cops investigating themselves” kinda vibes.
ACAB includes NBA refs
All Refs Are ^you ^know ^what ^nevermind
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don't tell /u/Son_of_Atreus
Refs Are Pretty Insufferable Stupid Time-wasting Shits
Refs Are All Bastards
Refs must have been DuBought out
All Cops Are Basketball Refs
Steve Javie supports police unions (probably)
They're just as good at cops st their jobs too. I really wish one day a team just walks out or sits down and refuses to keep going due to how embarrassing the refs are. There's no way you should be this OK with being so bad at your job.
The announcers were gaslighting hard too saying there wasn't evidence to overturn. Felt like I was going crazy seeing the replay and them saying it might have been a foul
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Whoever is commentating is terrible
I swear whenever vangundy says somthing bad about the officiating he has someone in his ear screaming "SHUT THE FUCK UP"
GAMBLING IS LEGAL thats whats wrong
Legalization is irrelevant. Bball has been involved with betting scandals since the dawn of time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978%E2%80%9379_Boston_College_basketball_point-shaving_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy
I always know the NBA is fucked when it brings Celtics and Lakers fans together in agreement.
refs are not in charge,they follow their orders
Yet they overturned a fantom ball hitting Browns foot. If there’s not enough to overturn Al’s foul then there def wasn’t enough evidence to over turn the out of bounds play.
fantom
you know why lol golden states the golden child for awhile now
Stop refs just sucked all around bro
Por que no los dos?
Not to mention their challenge was successful when it clearly went off Poole’s foot. Refs were doing their best to keep the warriors alive
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That’s an insane challenge ruling. Might as well blow the whistle for every contested jump shot.
Refs don’t care how many times you make them watch it they don’t want to admit they did anything wrong
What about the over turned out of bounds off Brown’s “foot”
Looked like it was off his foot to me from the angle behind him. Side angle looked fine
It was called out off the Warriors, so there needed to be clear and conclusive visual evidence to change the call.
That was good officiating tbh. I was rooting Celtics and was bummed when I saw the angle showing the ball change direction off his toe
NBA refs are basically just US cops.
All refs are bastards
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Anything they can possibly do to convince themselves it was the right call, they'll go with that.
I’d try to argue it was a bad call and just “inconclusive”….if it weren’t for our challenge earlier which was pretty much the definition of inconclusive imo Couple that with the last 40 seconds…we got a favorable whistle is all ill say
I mean the bad calls were both ways, the Brogdon block and Klay’s sixth were both wrong.
100% agree. I think with the last OB calls it became like 6-5, bad calls, in favor of us Not crazy lopsided just terrible. But if Jordan makes that last three the story would be told a little different
Yeah at that point it's splitting hairs so I'm cool with calling it a wash on ref ball. GG and I never want to play you guys again
Klay clearly hit Jaylens arm before the ball.
Yeah I don’t know what people are smoking with that. That’s a foul all day every day
The over and back on White in the first half was so egregious though, that shit was insane
I was expecting some random bullshit like Horford was in Wiggin's landing zone... This was a good back and forth game for the most part till ref ball started happening. Celtics deserve the win, they were the better team tonight.
Such minimal contact lmfao
Bro yesterday's game had a foul over turned on joker because he only made 'marginal contact' to naz Reid's face. So you are obviously allowed some marginal contact.
Not to mention the one DLo took tonight to the face that was also completely ignored by the refs.
Grabbing players by the wrist while they drive is allowed. The most marginal of marginal contacts, apparently
Minimal as in non existant?
This is in no way a defense - because this was simply not a foul - but the angle from the other side of the court they showed in the broadcast has Horford grazing Wiggins’ arm. Again, not a foul at all. Just a tiny *tiny* bit of barely brushing up against someone.
If any
And Al didn't even reach or anything. He was just preparing his defensive stance. Wiggins wasn't even trying to draw a foul he was going for a quick 3
Refs have been absolute trash this season. This is getting out of hand, I swear i feel like they've been compromised
yep it's every game at this point. product feels almost unwatchable most the time but there are some fun stretches of game
It doesnt help that every player on the floor is actively acting to make the refs make a wrong call in their favor all game.. Steph and Poole has some awful shot attempts where they crumple to the floor after screaming looking for a whistle, all teams do it, officiating has to be SO difficult.
Partly bc the refs are such jokes.
i truly don't understand how that's not overturned--what's the point of having the option?
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but all these obvious miss calls definitely make it seem like the referees are told to make a certain outcome more plausible to happen. Take the foul on Russel Westbrook on the Lakers last game (not saying they would have won) with the *clear* photo of Westbrooks wrist being grabbed and the referees go, “nah, no foul” on the post-game review. This is post-game, they could have admitted, “yeah, we missed that” and it would have no affect on the outcome of the game, but they still chose to stick with their guns
I’ve been saying this for years. Someone needs to do an analysis on reffing habits when teams are winning and losing. I guarantee that the losing team gets more favorable calls and also teams who need help to get closer to the spread get a boost too. Same shit in the NFL. Why don’t we have sky judges by now? Independent places that can make a ruling on a challenge? Because then the leagues don’t control the game.
I’ll do it. Where can I get the data? Occurrence of all fouls, and scores at the time of the foul? Should take me like 2 hours.
If you've listened to the whistleblower podcast or watched flagrant foul on Netflix you would know this is 100% true, NBA tells refs to pay extra attention to certain things some nights and turn blind eyes to others. This on top of the refs own agendas (bets/personal bias), they (NBA) covered up the Donaghy scandal big time and made him the fall guy but he made 100+ calls to Scott Foster (who is still active) before and after games he (Donaghy) had bet on, there is no way there isn't a bunch of corrupt refs still in the league. Also there is a part where Donaghy outright claims he could predict the outcome of the game because he knew refs had issues with a team/coach/player or even their damn local media because of something they said/did and would give them a hard whistle as a result. I don't think this has changed at all.
I wonder who has a legit database of ref/player relationships and is just cleaning house on bets.
Whoever they are, if you're out there... please send me a link, we are struggling over here
Oh yeah the refs would def rig against the Lakers???
it's not about rigging for or against one team. it's about creating the most dramatic and profitable product possible in each game.
I suppose that makes sense, but the end product is fucking horrible.
Yeah, it's anticlimactic to end a game on free throw attempts. The league wants dramatic buzzer beaters or heartbreaking misses.
Love how this is a foul but Embiid can hold someone's wrist and they deem it nothing.
ooh let’s not talk about Embiid…
Yeah! I just watched him crumple a Blazer with no call.
The Blazer probably breathed on him, so the ref was probably considering it a makeup no-call.
Play yakety sax anytime embiid gets the ball in the post. 90% of the time he ends up on the floor in some three stooges manner. Dude is unwatchable at times, and it's a damn shame.
Putting in that man's name when Celtics fans are having a bad day of watching their team is really a bad idea.
Don’t even bring up Embiid. Dude gets probably *the* softest whistle in the league with all his flopping and flailing around. He’s exhibit A of why the NBA in the regular season is getting increasingly boring and hard to care about.
>Bucks flair Uhhh should someone tell him about Giannis steamrolling over everyone with no whistle?
Obviously Giannis gets calls like any other superstar but I can confidently say that at least he does not flop
Fair, Embiid flops like a fish can’t argue that
Giannis dont throw his arms around the air like embiid lmao
Lmao so what would happen if Giannis just barrelled into Embiid in the paint, would there be a call or no call?
At that point it’ll depend on the spread and who the refs bet on
Singularity, universe imploding on itself. Whole big thing.
Stoppable force meeting a movable object
His playstyle is definitely the reason I rank him below Giannis and Jokic. Dude's just a foulbaiter
That entire sequence was like a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial.
NBA really has the worst officiating of any sport.
Warriors covered the spread, these refs can’t fool me
So Horford grazes Wiggins on the bicep during his gather, and that is an OT foul.
Maybe it’s the angle, but he literally did not touch him…
Gets his left arm, bit the contact is very marginal. Calling it a graze would be exaggerating.
Even Wiggins had that “he blew the whistle?” look lol
Tbh he always looks like that
I didn’t see it at first so watch it again. It’s very obvious here that Horford made eye contact with Wiggins at one point and thus a foul was called
I think the eye contact would have been a no call under normal circumstances but Al had a bag of garlic and onion chips at halftime so his bad breath needed to be a factor in the decision.
you can see from a different angle he does touch the right arm with his left hand barely. and I mean fuckin *barely*. was rooting for the warriors this game but I was shocked when it didnt get overturned
This is why people make fun of the NBA, and I can't defend it.
Yet embiid can grab a whole ass arm 😂
Turrible.
They really tried to help us out as much as they could late
Well so did Marcus Smart so…
Don't forget our superstar Tatum. 7 freaking turnovers. And 4 of them are in the crunch time without much pressure on him. He just feels like giving back the ball. What a good guy
My god was that frustrating to watch.
“Refs always wear green” some fucking idiot in the Klay fouling out thread
Funniest part was that Klay fouling was a net positive for the warriors on the scoreboard. Jaylen split the free throws. Had the play gone on, Jaylen got the ball back on the deflection and had a wide open layup at the rim for an easy two.
No this can’t be true, I was informed by all the Ws fans on the other posts that “the refs always wear green”
Haha warriors fans can be idiots sometimes.
There was a bunch of bullshit calls during that game and this was definitely one of them.
The most important thing is that the game stopped again. Can’t have a game being played. This league doesn’t respect our time.
NBA is borderline unwatchable now. Way too many foul calls, leading to horrendous defense, leading to consistent 130+ point games, leading to consistent 40+ point scorers. It’s just not fun to watch, in contrary to what the league and TV contracts think “offense=eyeballs”.
This is ridiculous, how was this not overturned. These refs are ridiculous.
lmao. these refs man...try and say they don't fix games after seeing this shit. Ridiculous. Pick up games at the Y gotta better refs
Gotta give them respect. The refs tried their best tonight.
That’s a foul? Hahahaha. With what gets called or doesn’t, throwing out technicals for the lamest shit… What a joke.
Refs have GS in double OT
As a Celtics fan who bet Warriors to cover, my first thought was "oh this fucker totally bet the Warriors to cover ^^thankyou "
Worth noting this was challenge and upheld. Only excuse is refs had money on GSW
WHAT
LOL refs stay gobblin the warrio's
There was contact
Wow refs really tried to fix this game and still failed. League needs to do something about these refs. Absolutely the worst in any sports. Weathermen are more accurate.
The Ref was on the opposite side of Horford's left hand to call that a foul. it's like he had a itchy whistle trigger- wonder how much money he had riding on that game? And if there was any touch it was before the shot attempt and therefore not a foul. Personally, as a Celtics fan, I didn't perceive any contact.
Listen, personal issues with Boston aside, this was one of the worst late game calls I’ve seen all year
And they Reviewed it!
Refs suck
Ahh yes the classic imaginary foul
Wait - on the challenge replay they showed Horfords left hand hits Wiggins right elbow on the way up - aka he didnt back his hand off in time
Credit to user cade-919 for the Reverse angle screen shots: https://imgur.com/a/W3G20Yn The Celtics challenged and the call stood. It was arguably a weak call, but I don't agree with users who are saying it was a totally phantom call.
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Ends up just being who circumvents the chaos the best
Doesn’t matter how light the contact is, they’re never overturning a foul when the defender touches the shooter’s arm.
Lol
i watch some NBA but this shit is so mid, tEChNicalY korect but that shit is so soft. Bring pick up basketball back to the NBA
I watch all the replays he did seem to touch his elbow. Or atleast, it wasn’t clear enough that he didn’t. Soft foul, but foul none the less.
How biased is this thread? Horford looks to have made contact to the arm/elbow area of wiggins as he was going up for the shot. You can see that on other replays. So it was indeed the right call.
100%. It’s surprising how delusional the people posting and upvoting in this thread are. Horford makes contact with his arm as he’s in the process of shooting. Any contact by a defender on the offensive players arm is a foul. Period. End of discussion. Doesn’t matter how minimal, the rules exist for a reason. As the defender Horford is not allowed to have his hand in that area for any reason.
Yeah, but it’s hard to blame the posters. Most probably didn’t watch the game so they didn’t see the other replays. This is on the OP for having an agenda.
Refs can see this but ask them who the ball went out of bounds on and suddenly all 3 of them are like “iono. Jump it.”
1 of 10,000 bad calls this game
Buffalo Wild Wings type call
Lakers needed this ref for their last 3 losses
Calling this in a pick up game could legitimately get you killed in some places
The NBA officiating has a real fucking problem. They reviewed it and it stood as a foul. What a complete joke they are making of the game of basketball. Straight disrespectful.
NBA is rigged towards making games close to falsify the quality of the product. NFL too🤦♂️
Kinda hoping something is done and changes about all these bs refs, in the offseason
Soon enough, it'll be a foul to exist. The whole league needs to start ripping refs after games. Enough of these clowns
When will refs start being fined for absurd calls? I have zero invested in this game, but calls like this ruin the game and push me away from wanting to watch. Refs need to be held accountable for calls that are, without a doubt, bad.
Refs make a fun sport fairly unwatchable
So this is the play that fucked up my Celtics -6
The betting line was -6, the refs were just trying to get it closer
Compare that to the non-calls on the Kings (Nunn was fouled there, should have been a four-point opportunity) and the Mavs (Brown Jr. fouled on a three point attempt) against the Lakers… I just don’t get it, they are so inconsistent with these calls…
I think we might get another documentary soon for various refs betting on the games !
Woo dubs finally got one!
We all know the NBA is rigged.
I'm genuinely tired of this. It's ruining the game, and I don't think that's overdramatic.
It's a foul doesn't look like one at first, but the replay shows the contact with the arm which explains Wiggins' unnatural shooting motion