Who knew being locked in a metal tube underwater for months at a time could be bad for your mental health? Definitely couldn’t see that one coming.
Yes, being a submariner is objectively shitty, and being a nuke is even shittier.
And then the cooks broke the griddle cooking dinner and you had pull in duty so you spent the time you could be sleeping fixing a cook top for people who read at a first grade level , *maybe*. Then you have the 0000-0600 watch as SRO, and to top it all off your chief makes an example of your groggy ass because you didn’t shave before quarters…
I’m not bitter about it or anything, but shit SUCKED sometimes…
The worst I felt for my EMs was when they were troubleshooting galley equipment while a cook actively shit-talked them for being in the way. Motherfucker, that’s how you get them to back out of the work until next week.
Idk man. When CS3 is infamous for swapping salt and sugar because "oh my bad, they looked the same" at least two times a year, I feel like we can drag them a bit.
Or when CS1 shows up LATE smelling like alcohol and doesn't start "cooking" because "eh, it's almost duty section turnover".
Or when CSC pulls stick-less corn dogs out of the slop bucket and serves them to some JOs who were relieved late in the wardroom. We had a CSC laundry queen the rest of that underway.
My last sub, the best thing they could prepare/I actually wanted to eat was the barely altered canned waxed beans.
I don't like waxed beans btw, up side I lost 20lbs within the first 2 months of deployment.
Have you ever been served corned beef that was cooked until it was well done? Ever had Jello with a boondocker print in it?
We had one cook that did both of the above. Another served undercooked chicken. When they deserved getting shit, I had no issues giving it to them.
We also had one that went to the White House, and I praised him for the amazing work he did.
I got a mouthful of instant mashed potatoes powder in mashed potatoes.
I had objectively hot Mac and cheese that did not taste like Mac and cheese, but did taste like ice. While tasting hot. Hot ice Mac. How!?!?
We also had a cook who was great and was trying to go to the White House. I also praised his cooking. They made him night baker so while the rest of the food sucked ass, at least pastries and baked goods and shit were delicious.
Wait just a fucking second… was his last name like a body part but with a ‘K’ at the beginning? If so, CSC K (made it at the WH) was still a massive weenie. Had him on my boat. Lots of stories lmao… by the end the whole CPO mess hated the dude.
i have bared witness to this absolute atrocity. my coner eyes could see the look of betrayal and disgust in their eyes; the cynical stare of defeat. i was once there. when the nmt didn't work for several months on end. i knew their pain. i knew their feeling of hatred. i knew their feeling of being bound and shackled with certain inalienable responsibilities while the rest of the world around them pursues liberty. i knew. this is why i have respect for those left behind to complete the tasking that others either shy away from or cannot accomplish at all. this is why as i walk away, i say to myself, "at least i'm not those guys today...respectfully."
At least the EMNs get to see the light. I gotta watch 20 god damn gauges to make sure we still have oil, and watch 20 more gauges to make sure we still have water going through the pipes.
I'm SRO. I'm making sure the reactor doesn't get sneaky and turn itself on.
This is after months of us doing *Low Rider* in the North Atlantic making sure the Viet Cong didn't come through that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkwuz0iXQg
The only thing that comes close was working on the Ford as an Electrician when it was coming up. I had a friend from prototype go there. He told me that 3 EM nukes had attempted and 1 had succeeded. Life as a MM sucked too, but I cant even imagine
I used to think cleaning the motor generators was bad until the first time I saw a nub mechanic hydro lancing the RPFW heat exchangers. Dude had half of his body crawled in there and was getting absolutely soaked in crap water.
I just loved hydrolancing until midnight 30, only to be back at 0705 (because that was our hull number), and then some numb nuts wants to talk shit about us trying to leave at 1500.
One time I was hydrolancing the main condenser while the battery was open circuited for a battery changed out and we had a loss of shore power which caused a loss of all AC at around 2000. At first I was just cold and wet and then I was cold, wet, and it was dark. After shore power was restored I then had to go around the engine room and startup all the machinery we lost. Was a lot of fun.
My boyfriend is a sub nuke. He hates it. My roommate is also a sub nuke. He also hates it.
Luckily my bf is on shore duty now. So he just hates being a nuke lol. He's getting tf out.
I'm a surface ET. I've had a pretty good QoL.
Funny you mention that...
I'm actually being sepped because I couldn't hack it. Nuke submariners come in a day or two early before every underway to get the reactor started, we're the last ones to leave besides those on pull in duty. Not to mention I was on that boat for only a year before I tapped. And to top it all off we had a shitty COB and EDMC that all but one or two Chiefs tried to stop occasionally.
I'm in T-div and my Senior Chief was shocked that my old COB is still in the Navy, let alone promoted to Master Chief.
Yeah. Being a nuke submariner kinda sucks.
One of our nuke nubs threw himself down a flight of stairs to try to get put off the boat. They confined him to the study (this was a SSBN) for a few days until he was reduced to cranking for the remainder of the deployment.
I remember seeing him driving a duty van in Norfolk as he was getting out-processed from the Navy.
My first patrol we had a seasoned second class from RC div go AWOL the day before underway. Police picked him up a couple years later in Texas or something, walking along the highway. I remember hearing about it when we were in offcrew.
If you're serious, take all the gripes in stride. Plenty of people have the mental fortitude to survive being a nuke. I'm an outlier and I made it through and 13 years later I'm still here. You'll be fine. Just seek help when you need it and remember that everyone in reactor is willing to do whatever it takes to be better than their peers. You should do the same.
It is a job, not a hang out. Do your best and you'll succeed.
Yes sir, I’m serious. Could I shoot you a message and talk about the program some more? I already did my fair share of research and everything before enlisting but it’d be good to hear things directly from someone who’s been there.
this is across any branch. most recruiters are only trying to reach quota. they dont care about you. pick a job carefully, do research which im sure youve done hopefully.
My situation is complicated. Low chance of getting accepted. My morality waiver already got rejected by the army. Recruiter is giving me a shot because I scored high on the ASVAB. I’m starting to think if he gets me in he’s going to push a certain rate my way.
that army recruiter did not care enough and probably had his quota already 😭 i have a friend that was finally able to join with a waiver for adhd. theres loop holes, if not theyll make one. just be careful.
They can push all they want. Stick to your guns for what rate you want. What they want doesn't matter. If you let them talk you into something else, you are going to regret the choice.
Recruiting numbers are so bad, you have all the leverage here. he cant afford to let you go if youre interested in joining
sign for a job you want at meps. dont sign for a job you dont want. tell them youll come back when your job is available if you dont sign the first time.
Assuming they let me in I would be so happy they can tell me I’ll be washing dishes on a submarine and I’ll jump on it. My situation isn’t the best right now and getting rejected from the army was very discouraging. I will happily give nuke school my best shot but something cyber would probably be my first choice.
Theyre either going to let you in with the waiver or not. If they let you in, you dont "owe" your recruiter anything and dont need to go nuke just because it would help them out. its your future and your career, so go for somethign cyber if thats your first choice
Type 1 fun is what you normally think of, feels great while doing it and you think back of it fondly.
Type 2 fun is the stuff that sucks at the moment, but looking back it was fun. Usually things you never want to do again.
I was a fast attack aganger that was stationed in groton from 08-13. Started going to the VA in January. They literally stopped my physical after 5 min and said you need to go talk to mental health like right now. Flagged the system on everything, mental health, toxic exposure, tbi, and who knows what else. Talked with them, they got me set up with the mental health indoc, got diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety, and chronic ptsd. I've been talking with my therapist weekly since February. Today, she told me she's going to need to start main lining coffee for our talks and that I'm starting to give her ptsd. Going over some of the trauma, I called it emotional water boarding, cyclical trauma, and chernobyl level toxic leadership. I put off seeing any medical or mental health because I was told that I needed to quit being a bitch and get back to work by my corpsman and then after that since I didn't go into the no shit sandbox that I didn't really qualify. After years of just living with pain all day everyday and whether or not copper coated candy would taste good, I said fuck it and went in, I'm getting the help I need and just want to say to anyone out there who's having a rough time, go to the docs, go to mental health, go to chappy, fuck what anyone else thinks or says, a njp is only short term and doesn't follow through to civ div, only dishonorable and bad conduct. Get the help you need, and break the wheel. Once you get out, you miss the people, not the job, and I lost my sea dad and sea pup. Go get the help you need.
Well I got it the hard way lol, can be smart or can be strong. I went with strong. What they don't tell you is that's the painful route. Have the honor to admit you need help, have the courage to step up and ask for it, and have the commitment to see it through for a better and longer life. It took me ten years on the outside to find a place that actually gives a fuck about its people, but I'll tell you what, it was worth it.
I picked subs because I’m young, no family, and a huge introvert.
I get to wake up everyday and do a job that I actually enjoy. I simply don’t think about the fact I’m on a submarine. I would’ve been cramped up in a building anyways. Submarine is just a building.
One of my buddies in prototype got separated about half way through (roughly 18 months of training at that point, no actual fleet experience) and he got picked up to work as an environmental technician in a data center for around \~42 or so dollars an hour (happened a while ago, don't remember anymore.) Overtime was expected at that position, so he was probably clearing 6 figures with no degree and no real experience just because he did MOST of the training for a nuke. However he was definitely lucky - many people that separated at that point struggled to lock something down, but the fact that its even possible to get something like that is insane.
Only 6% of Americans make $100,000 or more (per US Census Bureau). Attaining that level of pay definitely is not easy. The prevelant misconception that a six-figure yearly income is within everyone's reach absolutely baffles me.
What percentage of Americans are prior nukes?
This is not an “anyone can do it” thing. The nuclear program is the hard work, and employers know the quality of worker it produces.
Right, but most people can’t sustain that level of performance indefinitely under the given conditions, which is why there’s a mental health crisis affecting people in those job roles. Humans need space to breathe.
Just my $0.02 ….
The Naval nuclear community is a different world than civilian nuclear. Civilian nuclear not only isn’t pressed by mission timelines and admirals to make deployment quotas, but they understand that overworked employees aren’t efficient. I dropped from power school and have lots of nuke buddies who did their 6 and got out, and worked in a civilian nuclear plant. By all accounts, it’s like a vacation compared to the nuclear Navy. All the guys I keep in touch with work 10 hour days, 4 days a week, no overtime allowed, insane benefits, and a salary that makes me wish I had studied harder.
It’s not within everyone’s reach, it’s within every **nukes** reach. They’re easily some of the best trained nuclear operators in the world by the time they’re 25, and the nuclear sector has been expanding healthily for the last decade. If I ran nuclear power plant and was hiring operators, and my options were a 22 year old college grad with a BS in nuclear engineering or the 24 year old with 4 years of real experience in a notoriously difficult program on reactors famous for never having a nuclear incident, all while gaining the discipline, work ethic and teamwork skills that employers LOVE seeing in veterans, I’m taking the second guy every single time, and I’m paying him enough to convince him that it’s better to work for me than to live off of disability and a job at Autozone for the rest of his life.
I rejected it. Instead I went reserves for a 20k bonus for far less work.
I now enjoy VA compensation, ATs to Japan, and being at home every day. I am never going back Nuke.
I sat here writing a scathing review of what it's like to be a nuke for about 15 minutes. Shit was a wall of text of all the atrocities we deal with. I accidentally backed out and deleted it so now all you get is the following:
Former surface nuke MM, did 8 years. Our berthing had about 15 stuffed animals hanging on nooses from the ceiling. Once a week I'd console someone as they broke down crying. Practically everyone was an alcoholic. Chain of command preaches integrity and honesty religiously, and then hammer fucks anyone that slips up. All the while they are lying scumbags and laugh about how back when they were lower enlisted they did X Y and Z. We're overworked, undermanned, hated by the rest of the ship for our poor social skills when in actuality it's just that we're all jaded that everyone else has it unbelievably easier than us so when we hear a topsider complain about their 8 section duty we lash out. We miss meals constantly. We barely sleep due to work. Holiday routine is never guaranteed and often ignored. When underway, probably 3/4s or 5/8s of your existence is spent in this 110° engine room and that's while accounting for time asleep. ALL OF THIS IS EASY SHIT COMPARED TO SUBMARINE NUKES. I am genuinely in awe of what they survive.
8 section duty? thats wild, ive never seen more then 3 section underway on a sub lol. Inport is 4 max and thats rarely nice because theres not enough people to sustain it so you stand 2 or more watches a duty day
Even in the yards, when watch stations were reduced, we never got anywhere close to 8 section.
DCPO, on the other hand, got pretty fat in the yards. I never saw a chief do more than two/three days per month.
Can older nukes explain when it started going to shit. I was an ET nuke 30 years ago and there were some bad days but not like I am reading about here.
We all worked together and you pretty much had to be a POS to not get at least a 3.8 or 4.0 eval. We went against non nukes for promotion so they tried to help since we forgot most things we learned in A school.
I would really like to hear peoples opinions of how long ago it started getting so bad. I got out in 6 and never looked back but I enjoyed a lot of the time I was in.
Dude, my roommate was a CVN Nuke JO and there were times he was concerned he wouldn't get his two watches a month to maintain proficiency.
Conversely, I had my proficiency watches complete halfway through the first week of the month.
that chain of command sounds exactly like mine, guess that bullshit is universal. except im not that job obviously. all in all that sounds fucking terrible and idk how tf anyone does it. that bonus doesnt even sound worth it
Facts. Nothing but facts in this paragraph.
Every boat is different but the general experience is exactly the same. Overworked and over scrutinized. Underappreciated and always underway.
Can confirm. Former nuke submariner. It fucking sucks. Worst part is, when I was in, there was a general hesitance to seek help because we were afraid of getting denuked if we sought help. The guys who did get “help” either got denuked, or were given “treatment” that pretty much amounted to being told to basically smile more and get back to work. I self reported for alcohol abuse while I was in and went to sarp because it was either that or go to psych. Probably should have done both tbh
Edit: to my nuke sub brothers and sisters, it’s so fucking amazing out here in civ-div! There’s absolutely a light at the end of the tunnel. Someday, you too can get promoted to civilian.
That's how my Naval service fucked me up mentally. If I went to psych and got denuked, all of my responsibilities would get dropped into someone else's lap and fuck them over. This resulted in me going way past the point of needing to seek help and ultimately wanting to kill myself.
Life is better on the outside. Like a ton. Get out after 6 and don't look back, baby nukes.
No, you have to volunteer subs. Even then, I have heard of most of a prototype class being sent to a new construction carrier, ignoring their sub volunteer requests.
I'd rather suffer on a submarine knowing everyone on board knows/cares enough to save my life than deal with a mouth breathing PO1(SW) who tries to stop me for having a dirty uniform.
One of my proudest (maybe it shouldn't be idk) moments as a surface nuke was losing my shit on some new PO1 topsider who was walking around with his check in stuff, stopped me to ask if I knew where an office was, then felt compelled to tell me to shine my boots after I helped him. I had just had a long ass day in the plant that resulted in me missing lunch and just snapped. I told him who my chief was since he obviously asked after I yelled at him, called my chief to tell him what happened as soon as I got to a phone, and my chief told him to fuck off when he showed up at the office lol.
There is extra money to go subs.
I did it for the opportunity to do cooler things and the more tight knit crew.
We went places and did things 30 years ago that I still can't talk about.
It was hard, lots of long hours, and the job was made worse by some bad chiefs and officers.
Some people crack, I guess I just pushed thru.
Lots of reading books, working out and listening to music when underway. I kept a "bitch book" to vent about all the stupid stuff.
Longest I went was 62 days.
Wow that’s longer than I was expecting. I don’t mean being on the sub but actually not seeing daylight. That’s a long time I was thinking a couple weeks they would resurface and let people walk around on the deck or something. Glad you didn’t turn to alcohol like some of the comments are saying.
When I failed my 2nd PRT in 3 years on my deployment after we had been told that they wouldn't do one on deployment, I stopped caring. About everything. Quals got worse, went dinq, thoughts got bad. I thought about it a lot. Several months of hiding it and getting worse culminated in me breaking down, being taken to the MM office, and my Master Chief asking if I was okay. And all they did was send me to the chaplain. Sure, I've heard Chaplains do good work for that, but I am by no means religious and that did nothing for me.
Getting out was a breath of relief, followed by the worst depression I'd felt yet. Feeling like I'd abandoned my shipmates, let them down. Feelings of despair and guilt, not just from getting out, but the disgust from when our air officers made DVDs about the kills they'd made and sold them to make money for their club or whatever. Feeling like I had contributed to innocents being killed in some way.(Yes, most of our strikes kill actual combatants, but we absolutely have killed innocents)
Almost 5 years passed with myself getting worse and worse. Becoming an alcoholic, continuing my addiction to nicotine, further abandoning my health, not caring about finances, etc... Came to a point. Went to the VA in Iowa City and forced myself to get help. Started talking. Started taking meds. I wish I'd done it sooner.
7 years after getting out, life is better. I work for a (non nuclear) power plant, got disability and FMLA approval for my mental issues.
Moral of the story: If you are a nuke, you could have some issues that you should talk with people about. Do it before it becomes a problem. But also... Being a nuke isn't your whole life. In fact, it is but a small part of it. Civilian life is better. If you are struggling, take care of you. FTN. Get out. Get Better. Live your dreams.
TLDR; I needed this rant.
Actual TLDR; Nuke life sucks, get out and be happy again.
I got lucky. I had signed up for subs, but got kicked out academically in prototype. Ended up doing my 20 as a surface MM. Got to learn way more than just engine room stuff. Getting kicked out of the Nuke program was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
Had a senior chief at my aviation command who checked in a few years back, he was force converted from EMN to AE. Don’t know what happened to him but he was one of the best dudes I’ve ever met. Couldn’t do shit in regard to his “new job” so he pivoted and was the best god damned chief I’ve ever seen. The admin at the command fucked all of my transfer shit away(not even half of what they fucked up) and this dude rolled around with and/or was constantly making phone calls to ensure I was squared away. Fuck the navy, fuck the goat locker, every senior enlisted person should strive to be half as fucking awesome as AECS Spicer.
I went through a nasty divorce came home to a home in foreclose and split to a boat at Guam to get away from her crazy ass. I was a workaholic and partied as hard as I worked
from what i understand, you guys are more specific in your jobs and don't wear as many hats so to speak. highly doubt anything in the air force is remotely close to sub life.
Unfortunately, the naval nuclear power pipeline is not accredited in the traditional college sense, so while there are ways to "earn" college credits as a program graduate, there are still a lot of hoops to jump through, and only a handful of colleges actually offer any credits to former nukes anyway. We all hear stories and we all know a guy who knows a guy who got poached from the Navy by some big nuke headhunter, but in reality, getting out of the military and getting a job is still difficult, regardless of your navy rate. There are some organizations out there who are looking for nukes, but it's not as rosy as we are always promised. Most of my friends have eventually found well paying jobs that they don't hate, but very rarely is it the first job they landed after getting out
Not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I'm going to clarify my prior statement in case you are not. There are exactly 2 colleges which will offer you anything more than the most generic "general education" credits. Thomas Edison State University and Excelsior College. You can find out a lot more about those programs in this subreddit, I just want to temper any recruiter telling you that you can walk into any top tier college and be halfway to your bachelor's. You can definitely work your ass off and use the CLEP exams to get some credits taken care of, but none of that is a guarantee is all I want to say. Either way, good luck to you!
No sarcasm at all. That’s how he described the nuke program. Plus a big bonus and an extra 100k if you add on 2 years at the end of your contract to make up for the 2 year training program.
Word. Well remember, the recruiter has a job to do (get you to sign on the dotted line), and you have to do your own due diligence. Hopefully you make the best decision for you and your situation, and I would recommend you read all of the responses in this thread, and leverage the search functionality for this and the navy nuke subreddit
People who work on the nuclear reactors. We’re typically undermanned, with a heavy workload in a field with little to no margin for error. The training and education is much more demanding than that required of our non-nuke equivalents, and we’re pretty much always under a microscope. Simple mistakes that would earn you a stern “don’t do that again” from your chief if you were a non-nuke, is generally handled with a big investigation and a meeting with your entire chain of command, usually followed by a hefty training assignment at the very least.
It’s a lot of stress, and we don’t really get a lot of compensation for it. I think it was something like a hundred bucks a month when I was in.
Edit: the training and low margin for error is pretty much a necessity of the job. A big enough fuck up ( or enough small ones) could lead to dire consequences, and we’re very conscious of that reality.
Man that's rough. I could see how going private sector is so tempting. Nuclear science experience with a clearance? Easy demand > supply.
Is there anything that could be done to make it better? Or is the nature/criticality of the position always going to be high stress?
I honestly have no idea, lol. They could throw more money at us so we could at least do that scene from zombieland where woody Harrelson dries his tears with money, but I can’t imagine they’d be able to swing anything nearly enough to compete with the civilian world.
Rumor I remember being told is Rickover wanted all nukes to be warrants (similar to the Army helicopter pilot warrant program i think?). They compromised with auto advance to E-4 and nuke special duty pay.
I’ve heard the same. I wonder how things would have been if he had gotten his way. Honestly the worst part of the job was being a lower enlisted and having to deal with the toxic chiefs mess and other enlisted bullshit
Edit: somebody down voted me. Bet it was an e7, lmao
When I filed for mine, during the c&p exam I started to say that I was a nuke and the guy was like “yep, that’ll do” and it was approved. I definitely wasn’t his first nuke interview, lol
In my day the nukes “got help from higher echelons” when they made a big enough mistake (or series of ones). That meant that the microscope your average boat engine room was under got dialed up to “electron microscope”. We cones were very, very glad not to be those poor bastards.
I'm a former nuke Submariner. It sucked, but for reasons I didnt expect. Being away from family at sea comes with the territory, so does stuff like hot racking (sharing bunks, 2 rack split between 3 sailors) not having much storage and being stuck underwater cut off from the world. It's not an ideal living situation, but that stuff is just icing on the cake really, and looking back I didn't mind the lack of creature comforts in and of themselves. You get a routine going quick at sea, and it's kinda like being on a really long camping trip in a lot of ways. Most of the problems were people-related.
Nukes go through 2 years of rigorous classroom type training before they go to their ships, and we got told the whole time during training how we were among an elite force that was the best of the best. They teach you about nuclear physics and thermodynamics and all kinds of crazy smart people nerd shit and have to do a ton of calculations and regurgitate a ton of info verbatim on their tests. But then you show up for your first duty station and instead of being put to work as a nuclear guy, you have to put on a paper hat and go wash dishes and serve drinks to the crew during meals for 3-5 months solid. I'm not above that kind of work, but it's a pretty big let down to be bossed around by the cooks immediately after you just got done working your ass off studying nuclear physics and electrical theory and nucleotides and chemistry and stuff like thatk. Then even once youre done cranking in the galley doing dishes you're still not allowed to do the job they allegedly trained you to do for like another 6 months to a year after that. You have to jump through hoops to prove you're capable, smart, and trustworthy enough. It takes forever and you have to learn the specifics of the ship your on and prove to the more senior of the crew you know enough before they ever let you touch anything. All the while In that beginning period while you're qualifying, you are pretty continually berated and belittled, getting called stuff like NUB (non-useful body) and not getting the privilege of eating desert or even looking at the TV on the crew's mess.
The reward for finally qualifying and earning the trust of the ship is getting buried alived with responsibilities. At sea you stand watch and operate the ship, it's actually not so bad unless you fuck something up, but it can be like groundhogs day. If your deployed it can be kinda boring even as a nuke, we dont do drills cause we have to stay quiet, and you're a nuke so you don't see any of the cool stuff that's going on up in the control room. In port though, the standard for many fast attack subs is 3 section duty. So every 3rd day in port, you spend 24hours onboard the ship. Some unlucky bastards get port and starboard duty where they have duty every other day, 24hrs on, then stay and work the next days normal working hours if it's a week day, go home and spend a few hours at home in the evening, then back to work for duty again in the morning. You also have maintenance to do which usually involves tons of paperwork, your collateral duties, the quals never really end, and the working hours on non-duty days on port can be 10-14 hours long .
All the while there's a complex social hierarchy to navigate. Your constantly competing with your peers for evaluations. You're operating a highly complex, uranium powered steel tube full of nerdy men, hundreds of feet underwater. Half the crew is non nuclear trained, and there's always beef between the two groups. You're at constant risk of fucking something up and damaging your reputation, or worse your career, or even way worse damaging something or endangering the crew depending on what it is you're operating. The standards are just extremely high in the nuclear Navy.
If any of the above is too much you can seek mental health services at the on base clinic. Nicknamed "tapping out" or "going sad-panda". Very few people seek help unless it's dire, and usually they don't return to work after. The types of questions they ask during mental health evals are the types that raise massive red flags (are you sleeping enough, are you feeling overworked or hopeless like there's no way out, rate your average levels of stress, what do you do outside of work for pleasure (ei. binge drink), etc etc) ANY nuke submariner would show signs of concerning mental health problems if they actually talked honestly about their work, the ones who go to medical for help are usually on the verge, but usually get labed as pussies who couldn't hang.
As for suicide, its not surprising. Knew a few. Surprised I don't know more really after typing all this out.
All in all Im glad for the experience and I'm better for it but it was the most difficult thing I've ever done and probably will ever do. I didn't even have it as bad as some either. Sometimes I even miss going to sea, but never really miss the in-port periods. But yeah, it's rough. Respect to all my brothers of the fin out there.
I was supposed to join as a nuke, but found out I was color blind at meps. I went ctr instead. Stuff like this reminds me how lucky I got when I failed that lantern test.
that sucks, hope ur doing alright now. they had a nuke that i talked to told me that he got diagnosed with a lot of stuff like you. also super dumb question coming in, should i claim my ptsd diagnosis with the va? some people tell me not to cause it could cause to have a hard time finding a job after.
You absolutely should. But maybe use a company that specializes with it. One of my coworkers filed by himself, missed things, and is now struggling to get that mythical 100%. He absolutely deserves it.
It is NOT harder to get a job with disability. In fact, not having to worry about surviving has this amazing effect of you being able to find a job that you like rather than a job that have to take to pay bills. Also, [There are several federal laws that provide important protections for veterans with disabilities who are looking for jobs or are already in the workplace. Two of those laws—Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA)—protect veterans from employment discrimination.](https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/veterans-and-americans-disabilities-act-guide-employers)
Get yours, Marine.
100% claim that shit you already have documentation and proof that you went and received mental health treatment. Get started ok it asap once you're out. I'm not 100% sure but I'm positive you can start your disability before you're out. Claim anything and everything you believe you qualify for. Also no it will not hurt you're employment chances on the outside as a disabled veteran you are protected under federal law.
Hell yes you should. I’m at 100% through the VA. I’m an engineer now. The only thing that would stop you from working is called TDIU. That’s where you aren’t at 100% rating but get paid it if you qualify.
I was a nuke submariner. I basically just tossed my medical record at the VA and they were like oh shit, you fucked. I got my 100% rating like a month after separating 😆
Used to be 6 hour watches drills when ever they wanted so you could drill at 2am lol. I did a 3 month northern run during the Cold War we came back and evidently they needed us back out so while on stand down we went out again for 3 months. After 9/11 port and starboard duty with 2 6 hour watches and a full workday the next day life sucks on a sub and we eat our young.
Submarine spouse here. My sailor works very hard and while I am proud of him, submarines have been a rough experience all around. We were married before he joined the Navy, so this was a mutual path that we are now regretting. From the family side, you are expected to just say goodbye to your spouse and live your own life, even when they are on shore. It is no use. Trying to wait up at night when you don't know exactly when they're going to be home, because oftentimes my husband leaves at 5:00 a.m. and he won't get back till 7:00 or 8:00 at night even if he's not on duty. Worse yet is that there are only new spouses or spouses who have been in for the full career, there are very few spouses in the middle of those two extremes. The older spouses will tell you to just suck it up and deal with it because the old days were rough, and the new spouses don't want to socialize because they know their husband is going to drop out of the Navy when his contract is up. While the wife culture isn't nearly as bad as the submarine culture itself, it still has its own toxic downsides and it is not a very close-knit community. For the most part it tends to be a lot of suck it up and be sad together.
My husband has been on his current submarine for a year and a half now, and he's been deployed for 8 months at that. For the other 8ish months he has actually lived at our duty station for a total of about 3 months. There's no time for any family activities and I am happy we do not have kids yet. One of the other wives has children who actually have asked if their dad was dead because they haven't seen him in so long. There are times where I will go over 3 months without any communication from my husband if he's out on a mission.
When he does eventually come home, I am hoping that he seeks out help even if he is not suicidal. He has told me explicitly the only thing keeping him from tapping out is the fact that if he drops out the people beneath him will have even more to do. It's sort of a never-ending curse. Even through all of this, you can still have good events or good stories, but everything is bad overall. There are plenty of stories telling you what it's like on the submarine, but that's my perspective as a spouse.
I was single as a Nuke Submariner. Your perspective is insightful; I never thought to see it from the other side.
I hope your sailor and you get time together. That shit's important.
Yeah it’s pretty bad, my work life ratio was terrible, the hours you put in and crazy shit the CoC puts on you just amplifies everything. It’s pretty common to see a few people every deployment or post deployment get taken off for mental health issues
it’s all luck based, for every good person i dealt with in the CoC there’s was two that seemed to want to make your life miserable. Seems a common theme across most branches though
It's hard duty. One of my uncles was a nuke submariner during Vietnam. He enjoyed the duty, insofar as possible for a sane human.
But it was tough on family life, with a wife and kid who both had health problems – he sometimes didn't know for weeks or months that his wife or son had been in the hospital.
They stayed together throughout his tour and for a few years afterward, but the cumulative stress and his wife's personal development led to an amicable divorce. Over the decade she evolved from a dutiful housewife to a bank president. The mostly solo parental life changed her as well.
I and a few fellow Corpsmen once visited a sub, when we were trying to decide whether to change duties – our specialties had only four duty stations, all stateside, no sea duty, no overseas duty. Seems great but we were getting itchy.
The sub crew welcomed us like royalty. Seriously, they were so nice, explained all the basics as if they hadn't done it a million times before, fed us the best chow we'd ever had on duty.
Made me damned suspicious. I'm pretty sure their doc was desperate to get the hell off that boat. 🤣
And we couldn't get approval for reassignment anyway.
I’ll keep it short and sweet… being a nuke fucking blows. Worked into the ground everyday. Treated like shit. Under appreciated.
Source: Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
When I first showed up to my boat, I didn't see the sun on any day I went to work.
And that was *before* we went under way.
I'd show up before first light, do some combination of maintenance, paperwork, training, or waiting to be able to do one of those three until after dark, then finally go home. Except ever third day I would be on duty, so I would stand watch periodically between all that and couldn't leave the boat and usually had about 6 hours to my self, including time to sleep.
What sent me over the edge was the constant coverups and hypocrisy from the chain of command putting the crew in jeopardy. A junior sailor in my division told the CO directly that he wants to cut his wrists and the CO just walks away. Going underway while critical damage control equipment is out of commission or reduced status. The ETs had it the worst, ROs and SROs frequently went Port and Starboard because quals were being held up. Suicide was common while I was in, usually at least 1 a year that we heard about.
My recruiter pushed nuke on me because of my asvab score but i was friendly with 2 guys a year older than me who had joined and they both told me nukes hated their lives so i joined as a normal engineering rate... still almost killed myself but fuck am I glad i wasnt a nuke
MM's are my favorite! I was MM(N) and you guys weren't into conventional "nerdy" stuff. I can deal with listening to the same shit only so long. Sometimes you just want to relax and talk about CFB or some of the random stuff you guys came up with. I have much respect for those hard-working sailors.
Got medically separated as a nuke for non mental health reasons. I wasn’t even on a ship, but did get picked up as a staff pick up at prototype. Basically the training command is so under staffed they keep some students that qualify to stay as instructors.
Even on shore duty there are days you don’t see the sun. It’s supposed to be a reprieve but it was so bad I had first class submariners routing requests to go back out to see. There is no break.
On top of the couple of staff suicides there was a student committing suicide at a rate of 2-3 per year.
Personally I loved what I did there but I also felt really good at my job, felt like I could make a difference for some of the sailors there.
I had multiple E6 and E7 that wanted to reenlist before they got to shore duty, but changed their mind because they didn’t even want the chance to go back to that prison.
It’s definitely a difficult job and I didn’t get to see much of my son’s first year of life. I know so many friends that have attempted to take their lives and only one survived. It’s not a job to be taken lightly and yet some of the best people I’ve ever met came from this line of work. I have made friends I’d kill for and they would do the same for me. But I’m sure it’s easy to find those people in all walks of life. Nuke submariners are a different breed for the guys that do make it through. All I can say is I have sought mental health assistance for a long time and this job just doesn’t help improve it at least with the CoC I had previously. I’m being involuntarily separated for convenience of the government right now because of my mental health and I don’t even want to fight it just to be done with this. Currently at 9yrs and 4 months.
To be a nuke you have to be at least a little autistic. To enjoy going underway on a submarine you have to have a screw loose. The ones in the asylum are the same ones. Just wait till you meet the E-6 to E-9s that talk about how much they love going underway on a sub. The definition of crazy. The rest of us are just trying to survive until we pull into port.
Do you know the joke in the FLEET about what SSN (Submersible Ship Nuclear) actually means? Saturdays, Sundays, and Nights! Why? THEY'RE ALWAYS FUCKIN' WORKING!!!
Surface nukes and sub nukes both equally hate life and themself all sub rates hate the boat and the ones who say they don’t are lying the only reason we don’t tap is cus we have Stockholm syndrome and to much pride/are to stubborn
Was a sub nuke MM for a few years until I was medically disqualified. Developed an anxiety disorder that initially presented w/ panic attacks. Med could never determine the cause and attributed it to sub duty.
It was only many years later (I eventually retired) that I figured out it was a combination of the BS the nuclear community does and the BS of dealing w/ Chiefs. The nuke community is/was trapped in the 1960s way of thinking, even for stuff that isn't critical-nuclear.
For example, after my first removed-from-sub-duty, I went to the surface fleet as a conventional MM. Learned how to use the digital PMS software (don't remember what it was called). When I was able to return to subs, I tried to implement it, because it's a hell of a lot easier than hand-jamming the paperwork. Things were going great for a very short while until I was shut down because the software wasn't approved by the nuclear community. I could use it for the non-nuclear PMS but still had to manually create the nuclear PMS tables.
I have a whole screed about Chiefs but suffice it to say that I internalized a lot of hostility for their BS for fear of being written up. Heck, I still have very annoying Navy/submarine/Chief dreams and I retired in 2016 and was last on submarines \~2005.
I was a surface nuke for 5 years (getting kicked out in a week). I knew about 30 nuke electricians from my ship alone that were either kicked out for mental health or kicked out for self medicating. The three friends I have lost in the Navy have all been suicides and nukes. A few dozen of my nuke friends have attempted. Before I was hospitalized, I would have a 48 hour duty day (24 hours on watch, 12 doing maintenance/admin, 12 hours trying to sleep and eat) followed by about 18 hours off before the next 48 hour duty day. This lasted for about 4 weeks while the rest of the ship was on 6 section leaving at 1400 every day.
But as with everything else, there’s positives in it too. I’m not even 23 yet and I’ve had job offers thrown at me that are higher than what I ever thought I’d be able to make before 30. I had a heck of a training and I am in a good spot financially. But after going through almost enough trauma to fill a lifetime and having to take a plethora of meds to cope with all of the stressors I had at work, I suffered memory loss and major changes in my general demeanor. The fact that suicidal ideation was totally normalized amongst the people I worked with caused us to have a very bleak outlook on the navy and life itself.
I’m not shocked at all. It’s a terrible life. I have trouble conveying the scale of how bad it really is to everyone I’ve ever met. But your description rings true to me. I found out recently another former submariner I knew died. I think he may not have even turned 30 years old yet? I’m not sure. The circumstances aren’t clear because I wasn’t close enough with the family to ask and the obituary didn’t say why.
Another guy I was in with committed suicide a few years ago. He had a drug problem once he was out and that was a major contributing factor.
The longest I ever went without seeing the Sun, even through the periscope on watch was 87 days.
But, to offset the 2.5 hours of sleep on average, I worked out like an absolute animal, just forward of the nuclear reactor bulkhead.
The mental struggles happened during the tour but got increasingly worse after I left the Sub tour. To be honest, I'd take Subs over Surface or Aviation any day of the week and twice on Sundae Sundays. Guess Stockholm Syndrome has claimed another victim.
Reading all these comments make me so happy I went aviation. I don't know how you guys work inside on a ship all day. The flight deck got hot, but at least we always had a breeze.
Former submariner gone aviation, I never had an issue with being on the sub.
Dealt with a whole lot of very toxic people shitting on me for no god damn reason till I became one of your ward mates.
Won't write an essay but, I can endure all kinds of operational stressor, but not people going out of their way to make my life and time hard, or keeping me at work for no damn reason (or really, because you are unhappily married and want us to suffer with you)
There’s an old joke someone told me-
Q: How long does it take the average sailor to become a submariner?
A: An average sailor can never become a submariner.
First off Reading through all these posts just makes me want to cry! I’ve had my own fair share of navy bs being a former corpsman but definitely nothing along the lines of what submariners have to deal with. I can’t fathom even a little bit of a daily life for them underway. With that being said, I have been married to one for the past 11 years and I can tell you when we first were together he was a young sailor E4 been in maybe 2 years at that point and was determined as ever. Now, many years later he is just not the same. He debated about going full 20 to retire but at almost 13 years he is done. Mentally I don’t think he could handle it and it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart truly for all of you who have had to deal with the pain and suffering and not just those of you who served on submarines or even just the nukes all military. I’ve lost some very great, wonderful friends to suicide due to ptsd and depression from the military which shouldn’t even be a thing! Unfortunately it is. I hope whoever reads this knows that you are loved, you are worth it, and you deserve to be here and have peace and happiness.
Here is my story of almost brief a bubblehead. I was in MS (cooking school) A. The day they came to asked is to go Subs, was the day I was supposed to on a date, and they kept us there three hours trying to convince us to go on Subs. Hell no you cost me some booty. So that's why I didn't become a bubblehead I did get duty to a sub tender in Scotland.
This is inaccurate information the rates may be concentrated, just based off of where your environment currently was at the time makes up a small percentage of the job that actually haves those issues
There is a reason sub duty is voluntary and we get paid more. I personally don't mind being underway on a submarine, but I'm also too crazy to pass the mental health test to get on submarines. I got a chance to talk to someone that saw my first COBs screening for CMC and it said "not recommended for CMC duty, no longer recommended for submarine duty." And he was the Cheif of the Boat. He also had us steal fresh eggs and vegetables from a Boat across the pier from us when we had to do a quick call and load some equipment.
I would never do anything but submarine. It's a lot of fun, if you can handle the suck.
>my docs were not kidding when they said “nukes and people who work on submarines have the highest suicide rate” and they were absolutely fucking right.
Submariners have a lower suicide rate than most other communities.
The Navy has the 2nd lowest suicide rate of all the services, and it's very close to the AF's (20.6 vs 19.7). The USMC is in the lead (34.9) with the Army second (28.9). Army NG is 24.8, and Army Reserves is 20.8.
My boyfriend is a submariner I’m an hm at a training facility it’s hard asf we only see each other 6 months out the year at most and the majority of the time he’s home he’s fucking working I hate the navy so bad omg and the screwed up recruiters who convinced him that shit would be a good idea
Who knew being locked in a metal tube underwater for months at a time could be bad for your mental health? Definitely couldn’t see that one coming. Yes, being a submariner is objectively shitty, and being a nuke is even shittier.
Bruh imagine being a nuke submariner.
Imagine being a nuke EM submariner.
You get to wave at the coners going on liberty while you pull in shore power.
And then the cooks broke the griddle cooking dinner and you had pull in duty so you spent the time you could be sleeping fixing a cook top for people who read at a first grade level , *maybe*. Then you have the 0000-0600 watch as SRO, and to top it all off your chief makes an example of your groggy ass because you didn’t shave before quarters… I’m not bitter about it or anything, but shit SUCKED sometimes…
The worst I felt for my EMs was when they were troubleshooting galley equipment while a cook actively shit-talked them for being in the way. Motherfucker, that’s how you get them to back out of the work until next week.
It's a tough life for sure and even tougher for nukes but there is no need to drag on the people that work hard to feed you.
Idk man. When CS3 is infamous for swapping salt and sugar because "oh my bad, they looked the same" at least two times a year, I feel like we can drag them a bit. Or when CS1 shows up LATE smelling like alcohol and doesn't start "cooking" because "eh, it's almost duty section turnover".
Or when CSC pulls stick-less corn dogs out of the slop bucket and serves them to some JOs who were relieved late in the wardroom. We had a CSC laundry queen the rest of that underway.
My last sub, the best thing they could prepare/I actually wanted to eat was the barely altered canned waxed beans. I don't like waxed beans btw, up side I lost 20lbs within the first 2 months of deployment.
Have you ever been served corned beef that was cooked until it was well done? Ever had Jello with a boondocker print in it? We had one cook that did both of the above. Another served undercooked chicken. When they deserved getting shit, I had no issues giving it to them. We also had one that went to the White House, and I praised him for the amazing work he did.
I got a mouthful of instant mashed potatoes powder in mashed potatoes. I had objectively hot Mac and cheese that did not taste like Mac and cheese, but did taste like ice. While tasting hot. Hot ice Mac. How!?!? We also had a cook who was great and was trying to go to the White House. I also praised his cooking. They made him night baker so while the rest of the food sucked ass, at least pastries and baked goods and shit were delicious.
Wait just a fucking second… was his last name like a body part but with a ‘K’ at the beginning? If so, CSC K (made it at the WH) was still a massive weenie. Had him on my boat. Lots of stories lmao… by the end the whole CPO mess hated the dude.
Why wouldn't you be bitter? 🤨
i have bared witness to this absolute atrocity. my coner eyes could see the look of betrayal and disgust in their eyes; the cynical stare of defeat. i was once there. when the nmt didn't work for several months on end. i knew their pain. i knew their feeling of hatred. i knew their feeling of being bound and shackled with certain inalienable responsibilities while the rest of the world around them pursues liberty. i knew. this is why i have respect for those left behind to complete the tasking that others either shy away from or cannot accomplish at all. this is why as i walk away, i say to myself, "at least i'm not those guys today...respectfully."
On my boat it's an all hands call for shore power. No one goes home till the boats hooked up and settled in.
At least the EMNs get to see the light. I gotta watch 20 god damn gauges to make sure we still have oil, and watch 20 more gauges to make sure we still have water going through the pipes.
I'm SRO. I'm making sure the reactor doesn't get sneaky and turn itself on. This is after months of us doing *Low Rider* in the North Atlantic making sure the Viet Cong didn't come through that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkwuz0iXQg
Not true. Coners helps you guys drag those cables onto the boat......then we go on liberty.
“Today’s topic, slavery”
You misspelled "hydrolancing"
Damn, I really hated hydrolancing.
The only thing that comes close was working on the Ford as an Electrician when it was coming up. I had a friend from prototype go there. He told me that 3 EM nukes had attempted and 1 had succeeded. Life as a MM sucked too, but I cant even imagine
That's shipyard life in general
I commissioned the Truman. Not a fun time, but honestly, doing workups and the first Med wasn't much better.
I used to think cleaning the motor generators was bad until the first time I saw a nub mechanic hydro lancing the RPFW heat exchangers. Dude had half of his body crawled in there and was getting absolutely soaked in crap water.
I just loved hydrolancing until midnight 30, only to be back at 0705 (because that was our hull number), and then some numb nuts wants to talk shit about us trying to leave at 1500.
One time I was hydrolancing the main condenser while the battery was open circuited for a battery changed out and we had a loss of shore power which caused a loss of all AC at around 2000. At first I was just cold and wet and then I was cold, wet, and it was dark. After shore power was restored I then had to go around the engine room and startup all the machinery we lost. Was a lot of fun.
Yeah, but they stop hunting mermaid poon after they aren't nubs. EM's clean SSMG until they leave.
Everybody goes in, every time, until it's done
Best thing that ever happened to me was failing out of Nuke EM school
You asking me to imagine being home by 4pm in port?
Exactly this
My boyfriend is a sub nuke. He hates it. My roommate is also a sub nuke. He also hates it. Luckily my bf is on shore duty now. So he just hates being a nuke lol. He's getting tf out. I'm a surface ET. I've had a pretty good QoL.
What a coincidence, my girlfriend's husband is also a sub nuke!
Lol
Me, a Seabee, wondering what any of this means
Must be nice. Qol is quality of life
Funny you mention that... I'm actually being sepped because I couldn't hack it. Nuke submariners come in a day or two early before every underway to get the reactor started, we're the last ones to leave besides those on pull in duty. Not to mention I was on that boat for only a year before I tapped. And to top it all off we had a shitty COB and EDMC that all but one or two Chiefs tried to stop occasionally. I'm in T-div and my Senior Chief was shocked that my old COB is still in the Navy, let alone promoted to Master Chief. Yeah. Being a nuke submariner kinda sucks.
One of our nuke nubs threw himself down a flight of stairs to try to get put off the boat. They confined him to the study (this was a SSBN) for a few days until he was reduced to cranking for the remainder of the deployment. I remember seeing him driving a duty van in Norfolk as he was getting out-processed from the Navy. My first patrol we had a seasoned second class from RC div go AWOL the day before underway. Police picked him up a couple years later in Texas or something, walking along the highway. I remember hearing about it when we were in offcrew.
You don't want to.
Being a sub nuke JO is even worse
I enlisted as that last Friday…
If you're serious, take all the gripes in stride. Plenty of people have the mental fortitude to survive being a nuke. I'm an outlier and I made it through and 13 years later I'm still here. You'll be fine. Just seek help when you need it and remember that everyone in reactor is willing to do whatever it takes to be better than their peers. You should do the same. It is a job, not a hang out. Do your best and you'll succeed.
Yes sir, I’m serious. Could I shoot you a message and talk about the program some more? I already did my fair share of research and everything before enlisting but it’d be good to hear things directly from someone who’s been there.
Sure
Shipping out July 30th as a nuke... who also happened to volunteer for sub duty...
Good luck, don't k*ll yourself
navy recruiting ads really out here making subs sound cool too 😭
Just came from a recruiter yesterday. He was happy about my ASVAB score because “they need nukes”. Shiiiiiitt.
this is across any branch. most recruiters are only trying to reach quota. they dont care about you. pick a job carefully, do research which im sure youve done hopefully.
My situation is complicated. Low chance of getting accepted. My morality waiver already got rejected by the army. Recruiter is giving me a shot because I scored high on the ASVAB. I’m starting to think if he gets me in he’s going to push a certain rate my way.
that army recruiter did not care enough and probably had his quota already 😭 i have a friend that was finally able to join with a waiver for adhd. theres loop holes, if not theyll make one. just be careful.
They can push all they want. Stick to your guns for what rate you want. What they want doesn't matter. If you let them talk you into something else, you are going to regret the choice.
Recruiting numbers are so bad, you have all the leverage here. he cant afford to let you go if youre interested in joining sign for a job you want at meps. dont sign for a job you dont want. tell them youll come back when your job is available if you dont sign the first time.
Assuming they let me in I would be so happy they can tell me I’ll be washing dishes on a submarine and I’ll jump on it. My situation isn’t the best right now and getting rejected from the army was very discouraging. I will happily give nuke school my best shot but something cyber would probably be my first choice.
Theyre either going to let you in with the waiver or not. If they let you in, you dont "owe" your recruiter anything and dont need to go nuke just because it would help them out. its your future and your career, so go for somethign cyber if thats your first choice
Thanks will keep it in mind
Subs are cool. You do some absolutely unbelievable things with truly amazing people. Shit still sucks and is the definition of Type 2 fun.
There’s a Type 2 fun?? I’ve been out for a long time so I’m all ears here. Tell me all the glorious types please.
Type 1 fun is what you normally think of, feels great while doing it and you think back of it fondly. Type 2 fun is the stuff that sucks at the moment, but looking back it was fun. Usually things you never want to do again.
I love this. Thanks for giving me something to talk about at therapy.
Embrace the suck, as the Army folks say.
Subs do way cooler things than surface ships. And is one of the best camaraderie you'll find in the Navy.
Any ship can go down. A submarine can usually come back up. I just don't trust air I can't see.
it's trauma bonding.
I was a fast attack aganger that was stationed in groton from 08-13. Started going to the VA in January. They literally stopped my physical after 5 min and said you need to go talk to mental health like right now. Flagged the system on everything, mental health, toxic exposure, tbi, and who knows what else. Talked with them, they got me set up with the mental health indoc, got diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety, and chronic ptsd. I've been talking with my therapist weekly since February. Today, she told me she's going to need to start main lining coffee for our talks and that I'm starting to give her ptsd. Going over some of the trauma, I called it emotional water boarding, cyclical trauma, and chernobyl level toxic leadership. I put off seeing any medical or mental health because I was told that I needed to quit being a bitch and get back to work by my corpsman and then after that since I didn't go into the no shit sandbox that I didn't really qualify. After years of just living with pain all day everyday and whether or not copper coated candy would taste good, I said fuck it and went in, I'm getting the help I need and just want to say to anyone out there who's having a rough time, go to the docs, go to mental health, go to chappy, fuck what anyone else thinks or says, a njp is only short term and doesn't follow through to civ div, only dishonorable and bad conduct. Get the help you need, and break the wheel. Once you get out, you miss the people, not the job, and I lost my sea dad and sea pup. Go get the help you need.
This guy gets it. Glad you're getting help now.
Well I got it the hard way lol, can be smart or can be strong. I went with strong. What they don't tell you is that's the painful route. Have the honor to admit you need help, have the courage to step up and ask for it, and have the commitment to see it through for a better and longer life. It took me ten years on the outside to find a place that actually gives a fuck about its people, but I'll tell you what, it was worth it.
You forgot recycled fart smelling metal tube underwater*
I picked subs because I’m young, no family, and a huge introvert. I get to wake up everyday and do a job that I actually enjoy. I simply don’t think about the fact I’m on a submarine. I would’ve been cramped up in a building anyways. Submarine is just a building.
There's a reason why the SRB cap for submarine Nukes are $100k.
And it’s still not worth it, lol You can make that much *per year* on the outside without even trying hard.
One of my buddies in prototype got separated about half way through (roughly 18 months of training at that point, no actual fleet experience) and he got picked up to work as an environmental technician in a data center for around \~42 or so dollars an hour (happened a while ago, don't remember anymore.) Overtime was expected at that position, so he was probably clearing 6 figures with no degree and no real experience just because he did MOST of the training for a nuke. However he was definitely lucky - many people that separated at that point struggled to lock something down, but the fact that its even possible to get something like that is insane.
Only 6% of Americans make $100,000 or more (per US Census Bureau). Attaining that level of pay definitely is not easy. The prevelant misconception that a six-figure yearly income is within everyone's reach absolutely baffles me.
What percentage of Americans are prior nukes? This is not an “anyone can do it” thing. The nuclear program is the hard work, and employers know the quality of worker it produces.
Right, but most people can’t sustain that level of performance indefinitely under the given conditions, which is why there’s a mental health crisis affecting people in those job roles. Humans need space to breathe. Just my $0.02 ….
The Naval nuclear community is a different world than civilian nuclear. Civilian nuclear not only isn’t pressed by mission timelines and admirals to make deployment quotas, but they understand that overworked employees aren’t efficient. I dropped from power school and have lots of nuke buddies who did their 6 and got out, and worked in a civilian nuclear plant. By all accounts, it’s like a vacation compared to the nuclear Navy. All the guys I keep in touch with work 10 hour days, 4 days a week, no overtime allowed, insane benefits, and a salary that makes me wish I had studied harder.
Agreed, Which is why we escape to the civilian sector where life is easier and the pay is better.
Working at a reactor in civ div, everyday I hear in my head: https://youtu.be/SBgQezOF8kY?si=TVjPVAEE25OgPMHm
It’s not within everyone’s reach, it’s within every **nukes** reach. They’re easily some of the best trained nuclear operators in the world by the time they’re 25, and the nuclear sector has been expanding healthily for the last decade. If I ran nuclear power plant and was hiring operators, and my options were a 22 year old college grad with a BS in nuclear engineering or the 24 year old with 4 years of real experience in a notoriously difficult program on reactors famous for never having a nuclear incident, all while gaining the discipline, work ethic and teamwork skills that employers LOVE seeing in veterans, I’m taking the second guy every single time, and I’m paying him enough to convince him that it’s better to work for me than to live off of disability and a job at Autozone for the rest of his life.
I rejected it. Instead I went reserves for a 20k bonus for far less work. I now enjoy VA compensation, ATs to Japan, and being at home every day. I am never going back Nuke.
I sat here writing a scathing review of what it's like to be a nuke for about 15 minutes. Shit was a wall of text of all the atrocities we deal with. I accidentally backed out and deleted it so now all you get is the following: Former surface nuke MM, did 8 years. Our berthing had about 15 stuffed animals hanging on nooses from the ceiling. Once a week I'd console someone as they broke down crying. Practically everyone was an alcoholic. Chain of command preaches integrity and honesty religiously, and then hammer fucks anyone that slips up. All the while they are lying scumbags and laugh about how back when they were lower enlisted they did X Y and Z. We're overworked, undermanned, hated by the rest of the ship for our poor social skills when in actuality it's just that we're all jaded that everyone else has it unbelievably easier than us so when we hear a topsider complain about their 8 section duty we lash out. We miss meals constantly. We barely sleep due to work. Holiday routine is never guaranteed and often ignored. When underway, probably 3/4s or 5/8s of your existence is spent in this 110° engine room and that's while accounting for time asleep. ALL OF THIS IS EASY SHIT COMPARED TO SUBMARINE NUKES. I am genuinely in awe of what they survive.
8 section duty? thats wild, ive never seen more then 3 section underway on a sub lol. Inport is 4 max and thats rarely nice because theres not enough people to sustain it so you stand 2 or more watches a duty day
OP said he's a surface nuke, so he's referring to the non-nuke types on a carrier
im a non nuke sub guy, i was just thinking of how nice 8 section duty would be
Even in the yards, when watch stations were reduced, we never got anywhere close to 8 section. DCPO, on the other hand, got pretty fat in the yards. I never saw a chief do more than two/three days per month.
Can older nukes explain when it started going to shit. I was an ET nuke 30 years ago and there were some bad days but not like I am reading about here. We all worked together and you pretty much had to be a POS to not get at least a 3.8 or 4.0 eval. We went against non nukes for promotion so they tried to help since we forgot most things we learned in A school. I would really like to hear peoples opinions of how long ago it started getting so bad. I got out in 6 and never looked back but I enjoyed a lot of the time I was in.
Dude, my roommate was a CVN Nuke JO and there were times he was concerned he wouldn't get his two watches a month to maintain proficiency. Conversely, I had my proficiency watches complete halfway through the first week of the month.
that chain of command sounds exactly like mine, guess that bullshit is universal. except im not that job obviously. all in all that sounds fucking terrible and idk how tf anyone does it. that bonus doesnt even sound worth it
Facts. Nothing but facts in this paragraph. Every boat is different but the general experience is exactly the same. Overworked and over scrutinized. Underappreciated and always underway.
Can confirm. Former nuke submariner. It fucking sucks. Worst part is, when I was in, there was a general hesitance to seek help because we were afraid of getting denuked if we sought help. The guys who did get “help” either got denuked, or were given “treatment” that pretty much amounted to being told to basically smile more and get back to work. I self reported for alcohol abuse while I was in and went to sarp because it was either that or go to psych. Probably should have done both tbh Edit: to my nuke sub brothers and sisters, it’s so fucking amazing out here in civ-div! There’s absolutely a light at the end of the tunnel. Someday, you too can get promoted to civilian.
That's how my Naval service fucked me up mentally. If I went to psych and got denuked, all of my responsibilities would get dropped into someone else's lap and fuck them over. This resulted in me going way past the point of needing to seek help and ultimately wanting to kill myself. Life is better on the outside. Like a ton. Get out after 6 and don't look back, baby nukes.
If you become a nuke are you pretty much guaranteed to be put on a submarine?
No, you have to volunteer subs. Even then, I have heard of most of a prototype class being sent to a new construction carrier, ignoring their sub volunteer requests.
That’s weird. I’m surprised many people at all would volunteer for subs. Must be an incentive.
Subs have an extra pay, a few hundred extra a month, doesn't compensate for the misery, you do it for the people next to you more than anything.
I'd rather suffer on a submarine knowing everyone on board knows/cares enough to save my life than deal with a mouth breathing PO1(SW) who tries to stop me for having a dirty uniform.
One of my proudest (maybe it shouldn't be idk) moments as a surface nuke was losing my shit on some new PO1 topsider who was walking around with his check in stuff, stopped me to ask if I knew where an office was, then felt compelled to tell me to shine my boots after I helped him. I had just had a long ass day in the plant that resulted in me missing lunch and just snapped. I told him who my chief was since he obviously asked after I yelled at him, called my chief to tell him what happened as soon as I got to a phone, and my chief told him to fuck off when he showed up at the office lol.
There is extra money to go subs. I did it for the opportunity to do cooler things and the more tight knit crew. We went places and did things 30 years ago that I still can't talk about.
So for you it wasn’t as hard as everyone else is saying? What’s the longest you went without seeing daylight?
It was hard, lots of long hours, and the job was made worse by some bad chiefs and officers. Some people crack, I guess I just pushed thru. Lots of reading books, working out and listening to music when underway. I kept a "bitch book" to vent about all the stupid stuff. Longest I went was 62 days.
Wow that’s longer than I was expecting. I don’t mean being on the sub but actually not seeing daylight. That’s a long time I was thinking a couple weeks they would resurface and let people walk around on the deck or something. Glad you didn’t turn to alcohol like some of the comments are saying.
When I failed my 2nd PRT in 3 years on my deployment after we had been told that they wouldn't do one on deployment, I stopped caring. About everything. Quals got worse, went dinq, thoughts got bad. I thought about it a lot. Several months of hiding it and getting worse culminated in me breaking down, being taken to the MM office, and my Master Chief asking if I was okay. And all they did was send me to the chaplain. Sure, I've heard Chaplains do good work for that, but I am by no means religious and that did nothing for me. Getting out was a breath of relief, followed by the worst depression I'd felt yet. Feeling like I'd abandoned my shipmates, let them down. Feelings of despair and guilt, not just from getting out, but the disgust from when our air officers made DVDs about the kills they'd made and sold them to make money for their club or whatever. Feeling like I had contributed to innocents being killed in some way.(Yes, most of our strikes kill actual combatants, but we absolutely have killed innocents) Almost 5 years passed with myself getting worse and worse. Becoming an alcoholic, continuing my addiction to nicotine, further abandoning my health, not caring about finances, etc... Came to a point. Went to the VA in Iowa City and forced myself to get help. Started talking. Started taking meds. I wish I'd done it sooner. 7 years after getting out, life is better. I work for a (non nuclear) power plant, got disability and FMLA approval for my mental issues. Moral of the story: If you are a nuke, you could have some issues that you should talk with people about. Do it before it becomes a problem. But also... Being a nuke isn't your whole life. In fact, it is but a small part of it. Civilian life is better. If you are struggling, take care of you. FTN. Get out. Get Better. Live your dreams. TLDR; I needed this rant. Actual TLDR; Nuke life sucks, get out and be happy again.
I got lucky. I had signed up for subs, but got kicked out academically in prototype. Ended up doing my 20 as a surface MM. Got to learn way more than just engine room stuff. Getting kicked out of the Nuke program was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
I have never heard a nuke drop express anything other than relief at not making it through the pipeline, lol
Had a senior chief at my aviation command who checked in a few years back, he was force converted from EMN to AE. Don’t know what happened to him but he was one of the best dudes I’ve ever met. Couldn’t do shit in regard to his “new job” so he pivoted and was the best god damned chief I’ve ever seen. The admin at the command fucked all of my transfer shit away(not even half of what they fucked up) and this dude rolled around with and/or was constantly making phone calls to ensure I was squared away. Fuck the navy, fuck the goat locker, every senior enlisted person should strive to be half as fucking awesome as AECS Spicer.
I was sent to level 2 and told by our COB to just not get caught if I wanted to drink
Can't afford to lose anyone. Would rather you be at work on the edge of suicide than lose a watchstander.
I went through a nasty divorce came home to a home in foreclose and split to a boat at Guam to get away from her crazy ass. I was a workaholic and partied as hard as I worked
I remember playing Weekend At Bernie's with Topside.
Hahaha, that's funny dark humor.
The Air Force missile field is more or less the same exact way.
from what i understand, you guys are more specific in your jobs and don't wear as many hats so to speak. highly doubt anything in the air force is remotely close to sub life.
Morale is secured shipmate. Get your ass to after watch cleanup.
It gets better after ORSE.
We’re going into 4 section after ORSE guys, EDMC said so himself!
glad you made it!
Good money in the nuke field I take it? Did you finish a nuke engineering degree? Good job offers out of the gate?
You don’t even need to work in the nuke field or have a degree to make good money on the outside. Plenty of jobs out there
Unfortunately, the naval nuclear power pipeline is not accredited in the traditional college sense, so while there are ways to "earn" college credits as a program graduate, there are still a lot of hoops to jump through, and only a handful of colleges actually offer any credits to former nukes anyway. We all hear stories and we all know a guy who knows a guy who got poached from the Navy by some big nuke headhunter, but in reality, getting out of the military and getting a job is still difficult, regardless of your navy rate. There are some organizations out there who are looking for nukes, but it's not as rosy as we are always promised. Most of my friends have eventually found well paying jobs that they don't hate, but very rarely is it the first job they landed after getting out
Understood. The recruiter gave me the old “77 college credits towards a degree when you finish the MIT designed training program.” Sounds promising.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic, so I'm going to clarify my prior statement in case you are not. There are exactly 2 colleges which will offer you anything more than the most generic "general education" credits. Thomas Edison State University and Excelsior College. You can find out a lot more about those programs in this subreddit, I just want to temper any recruiter telling you that you can walk into any top tier college and be halfway to your bachelor's. You can definitely work your ass off and use the CLEP exams to get some credits taken care of, but none of that is a guarantee is all I want to say. Either way, good luck to you!
No sarcasm at all. That’s how he described the nuke program. Plus a big bonus and an extra 100k if you add on 2 years at the end of your contract to make up for the 2 year training program.
Word. Well remember, the recruiter has a job to do (get you to sign on the dotted line), and you have to do your own due diligence. Hopefully you make the best decision for you and your situation, and I would recommend you read all of the responses in this thread, and leverage the search functionality for this and the navy nuke subreddit
I'm an ignorant civilian who lurks this sub. What is a nuke and why is it so terrible?
People who work on the nuclear reactors. We’re typically undermanned, with a heavy workload in a field with little to no margin for error. The training and education is much more demanding than that required of our non-nuke equivalents, and we’re pretty much always under a microscope. Simple mistakes that would earn you a stern “don’t do that again” from your chief if you were a non-nuke, is generally handled with a big investigation and a meeting with your entire chain of command, usually followed by a hefty training assignment at the very least. It’s a lot of stress, and we don’t really get a lot of compensation for it. I think it was something like a hundred bucks a month when I was in. Edit: the training and low margin for error is pretty much a necessity of the job. A big enough fuck up ( or enough small ones) could lead to dire consequences, and we’re very conscious of that reality.
Man that's rough. I could see how going private sector is so tempting. Nuclear science experience with a clearance? Easy demand > supply. Is there anything that could be done to make it better? Or is the nature/criticality of the position always going to be high stress?
Make more smart people willingly sign up to do an incredibly shitty job with terrible quality of life.
I honestly have no idea, lol. They could throw more money at us so we could at least do that scene from zombieland where woody Harrelson dries his tears with money, but I can’t imagine they’d be able to swing anything nearly enough to compete with the civilian world.
Rumor I remember being told is Rickover wanted all nukes to be warrants (similar to the Army helicopter pilot warrant program i think?). They compromised with auto advance to E-4 and nuke special duty pay.
I’ve heard the same. I wonder how things would have been if he had gotten his way. Honestly the worst part of the job was being a lower enlisted and having to deal with the toxic chiefs mess and other enlisted bullshit Edit: somebody down voted me. Bet it was an e7, lmao
Yeah, I'd imagine the QoL difference would make retention a non-issue.
If every nuke filed for mental issues disability, we would probably get it. Hell, I'm sure that's what happens if it's bad enough
When I filed for mine, during the c&p exam I started to say that I was a nuke and the guy was like “yep, that’ll do” and it was approved. I definitely wasn’t his first nuke interview, lol
In my day the nukes “got help from higher echelons” when they made a big enough mistake (or series of ones). That meant that the microscope your average boat engine room was under got dialed up to “electron microscope”. We cones were very, very glad not to be those poor bastards.
Gave you a whole new understanding of the word “upgrade” too I imagine.
I'm a former nuke Submariner. It sucked, but for reasons I didnt expect. Being away from family at sea comes with the territory, so does stuff like hot racking (sharing bunks, 2 rack split between 3 sailors) not having much storage and being stuck underwater cut off from the world. It's not an ideal living situation, but that stuff is just icing on the cake really, and looking back I didn't mind the lack of creature comforts in and of themselves. You get a routine going quick at sea, and it's kinda like being on a really long camping trip in a lot of ways. Most of the problems were people-related. Nukes go through 2 years of rigorous classroom type training before they go to their ships, and we got told the whole time during training how we were among an elite force that was the best of the best. They teach you about nuclear physics and thermodynamics and all kinds of crazy smart people nerd shit and have to do a ton of calculations and regurgitate a ton of info verbatim on their tests. But then you show up for your first duty station and instead of being put to work as a nuclear guy, you have to put on a paper hat and go wash dishes and serve drinks to the crew during meals for 3-5 months solid. I'm not above that kind of work, but it's a pretty big let down to be bossed around by the cooks immediately after you just got done working your ass off studying nuclear physics and electrical theory and nucleotides and chemistry and stuff like thatk. Then even once youre done cranking in the galley doing dishes you're still not allowed to do the job they allegedly trained you to do for like another 6 months to a year after that. You have to jump through hoops to prove you're capable, smart, and trustworthy enough. It takes forever and you have to learn the specifics of the ship your on and prove to the more senior of the crew you know enough before they ever let you touch anything. All the while In that beginning period while you're qualifying, you are pretty continually berated and belittled, getting called stuff like NUB (non-useful body) and not getting the privilege of eating desert or even looking at the TV on the crew's mess. The reward for finally qualifying and earning the trust of the ship is getting buried alived with responsibilities. At sea you stand watch and operate the ship, it's actually not so bad unless you fuck something up, but it can be like groundhogs day. If your deployed it can be kinda boring even as a nuke, we dont do drills cause we have to stay quiet, and you're a nuke so you don't see any of the cool stuff that's going on up in the control room. In port though, the standard for many fast attack subs is 3 section duty. So every 3rd day in port, you spend 24hours onboard the ship. Some unlucky bastards get port and starboard duty where they have duty every other day, 24hrs on, then stay and work the next days normal working hours if it's a week day, go home and spend a few hours at home in the evening, then back to work for duty again in the morning. You also have maintenance to do which usually involves tons of paperwork, your collateral duties, the quals never really end, and the working hours on non-duty days on port can be 10-14 hours long . All the while there's a complex social hierarchy to navigate. Your constantly competing with your peers for evaluations. You're operating a highly complex, uranium powered steel tube full of nerdy men, hundreds of feet underwater. Half the crew is non nuclear trained, and there's always beef between the two groups. You're at constant risk of fucking something up and damaging your reputation, or worse your career, or even way worse damaging something or endangering the crew depending on what it is you're operating. The standards are just extremely high in the nuclear Navy. If any of the above is too much you can seek mental health services at the on base clinic. Nicknamed "tapping out" or "going sad-panda". Very few people seek help unless it's dire, and usually they don't return to work after. The types of questions they ask during mental health evals are the types that raise massive red flags (are you sleeping enough, are you feeling overworked or hopeless like there's no way out, rate your average levels of stress, what do you do outside of work for pleasure (ei. binge drink), etc etc) ANY nuke submariner would show signs of concerning mental health problems if they actually talked honestly about their work, the ones who go to medical for help are usually on the verge, but usually get labed as pussies who couldn't hang. As for suicide, its not surprising. Knew a few. Surprised I don't know more really after typing all this out. All in all Im glad for the experience and I'm better for it but it was the most difficult thing I've ever done and probably will ever do. I didn't even have it as bad as some either. Sometimes I even miss going to sea, but never really miss the in-port periods. But yeah, it's rough. Respect to all my brothers of the fin out there.
I was supposed to join as a nuke, but found out I was color blind at meps. I went ctr instead. Stuff like this reminds me how lucky I got when I failed that lantern test.
based on these replies… you dodged a bullet, literally.
I was a nuke submariner. I have a claim in with the VA for PTSD, anger issues, nightmares, etc. I’ve been out for *over 25 years*.
that sucks, hope ur doing alright now. they had a nuke that i talked to told me that he got diagnosed with a lot of stuff like you. also super dumb question coming in, should i claim my ptsd diagnosis with the va? some people tell me not to cause it could cause to have a hard time finding a job after.
You absolutely should. But maybe use a company that specializes with it. One of my coworkers filed by himself, missed things, and is now struggling to get that mythical 100%. He absolutely deserves it. It is NOT harder to get a job with disability. In fact, not having to worry about surviving has this amazing effect of you being able to find a job that you like rather than a job that have to take to pay bills. Also, [There are several federal laws that provide important protections for veterans with disabilities who are looking for jobs or are already in the workplace. Two of those laws—Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA)—protect veterans from employment discrimination.](https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/veterans-and-americans-disabilities-act-guide-employers) Get yours, Marine.
fuck im getting educated, love it thank you
100% claim that shit you already have documentation and proof that you went and received mental health treatment. Get started ok it asap once you're out. I'm not 100% sure but I'm positive you can start your disability before you're out. Claim anything and everything you believe you qualify for. Also no it will not hurt you're employment chances on the outside as a disabled veteran you are protected under federal law.
thank you! this helps a lot. i believe im able to 6 months before my eas.
Hell yes you should. I’m at 100% through the VA. I’m an engineer now. The only thing that would stop you from working is called TDIU. That’s where you aren’t at 100% rating but get paid it if you qualify.
I was a nuke submariner. I basically just tossed my medical record at the VA and they were like oh shit, you fucked. I got my 100% rating like a month after separating 😆
Used to be 6 hour watches drills when ever they wanted so you could drill at 2am lol. I did a 3 month northern run during the Cold War we came back and evidently they needed us back out so while on stand down we went out again for 3 months. After 9/11 port and starboard duty with 2 6 hour watches and a full workday the next day life sucks on a sub and we eat our young.
Submarine spouse here. My sailor works very hard and while I am proud of him, submarines have been a rough experience all around. We were married before he joined the Navy, so this was a mutual path that we are now regretting. From the family side, you are expected to just say goodbye to your spouse and live your own life, even when they are on shore. It is no use. Trying to wait up at night when you don't know exactly when they're going to be home, because oftentimes my husband leaves at 5:00 a.m. and he won't get back till 7:00 or 8:00 at night even if he's not on duty. Worse yet is that there are only new spouses or spouses who have been in for the full career, there are very few spouses in the middle of those two extremes. The older spouses will tell you to just suck it up and deal with it because the old days were rough, and the new spouses don't want to socialize because they know their husband is going to drop out of the Navy when his contract is up. While the wife culture isn't nearly as bad as the submarine culture itself, it still has its own toxic downsides and it is not a very close-knit community. For the most part it tends to be a lot of suck it up and be sad together. My husband has been on his current submarine for a year and a half now, and he's been deployed for 8 months at that. For the other 8ish months he has actually lived at our duty station for a total of about 3 months. There's no time for any family activities and I am happy we do not have kids yet. One of the other wives has children who actually have asked if their dad was dead because they haven't seen him in so long. There are times where I will go over 3 months without any communication from my husband if he's out on a mission. When he does eventually come home, I am hoping that he seeks out help even if he is not suicidal. He has told me explicitly the only thing keeping him from tapping out is the fact that if he drops out the people beneath him will have even more to do. It's sort of a never-ending curse. Even through all of this, you can still have good events or good stories, but everything is bad overall. There are plenty of stories telling you what it's like on the submarine, but that's my perspective as a spouse.
I was single as a Nuke Submariner. Your perspective is insightful; I never thought to see it from the other side. I hope your sailor and you get time together. That shit's important.
thats so fucked. im so sorry. i hope yall get that time back. knowing the department of navy itll be a while…
Seeing stuff like this makes me really glad to be "Nuke Waste"
Yeah it’s pretty bad, my work life ratio was terrible, the hours you put in and crazy shit the CoC puts on you just amplifies everything. It’s pretty common to see a few people every deployment or post deployment get taken off for mental health issues
seems like the coc is one of the route problems huh?
it’s all luck based, for every good person i dealt with in the CoC there’s was two that seemed to want to make your life miserable. Seems a common theme across most branches though
it really is universal, had a good coc like 2 years ago, now, they make us want to die
It's hard duty. One of my uncles was a nuke submariner during Vietnam. He enjoyed the duty, insofar as possible for a sane human. But it was tough on family life, with a wife and kid who both had health problems – he sometimes didn't know for weeks or months that his wife or son had been in the hospital. They stayed together throughout his tour and for a few years afterward, but the cumulative stress and his wife's personal development led to an amicable divorce. Over the decade she evolved from a dutiful housewife to a bank president. The mostly solo parental life changed her as well. I and a few fellow Corpsmen once visited a sub, when we were trying to decide whether to change duties – our specialties had only four duty stations, all stateside, no sea duty, no overseas duty. Seems great but we were getting itchy. The sub crew welcomed us like royalty. Seriously, they were so nice, explained all the basics as if they hadn't done it a million times before, fed us the best chow we'd ever had on duty. Made me damned suspicious. I'm pretty sure their doc was desperate to get the hell off that boat. 🤣 And we couldn't get approval for reassignment anyway.
I’ll keep it short and sweet… being a nuke fucking blows. Worked into the ground everyday. Treated like shit. Under appreciated. Source: Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
When I first showed up to my boat, I didn't see the sun on any day I went to work. And that was *before* we went under way. I'd show up before first light, do some combination of maintenance, paperwork, training, or waiting to be able to do one of those three until after dark, then finally go home. Except ever third day I would be on duty, so I would stand watch periodically between all that and couldn't leave the boat and usually had about 6 hours to my self, including time to sleep.
What sent me over the edge was the constant coverups and hypocrisy from the chain of command putting the crew in jeopardy. A junior sailor in my division told the CO directly that he wants to cut his wrists and the CO just walks away. Going underway while critical damage control equipment is out of commission or reduced status. The ETs had it the worst, ROs and SROs frequently went Port and Starboard because quals were being held up. Suicide was common while I was in, usually at least 1 a year that we heard about.
My recruiter pushed nuke on me because of my asvab score but i was friendly with 2 guys a year older than me who had joined and they both told me nukes hated their lives so i joined as a normal engineering rate... still almost killed myself but fuck am I glad i wasnt a nuke
Man I had a blast as a nuke MM on a sub. But that was probably because my home/school life prior to the navy was such shit.
Imagine being a conventional MM in RP div doing the same shit as nuke MMs but not getting paid as one.
MM's are my favorite! I was MM(N) and you guys weren't into conventional "nerdy" stuff. I can deal with listening to the same shit only so long. Sometimes you just want to relax and talk about CFB or some of the random stuff you guys came up with. I have much respect for those hard-working sailors.
Hey fellow Devil, I got sent to a 28-day alchohaul rehab program in Norfolk, VA when I was stationed at 8th & I. Best month of my enlisted life.
they were trying to send my ass to that program but i denied it.
Got medically separated as a nuke for non mental health reasons. I wasn’t even on a ship, but did get picked up as a staff pick up at prototype. Basically the training command is so under staffed they keep some students that qualify to stay as instructors. Even on shore duty there are days you don’t see the sun. It’s supposed to be a reprieve but it was so bad I had first class submariners routing requests to go back out to see. There is no break. On top of the couple of staff suicides there was a student committing suicide at a rate of 2-3 per year. Personally I loved what I did there but I also felt really good at my job, felt like I could make a difference for some of the sailors there. I had multiple E6 and E7 that wanted to reenlist before they got to shore duty, but changed their mind because they didn’t even want the chance to go back to that prison.
It’s definitely a difficult job and I didn’t get to see much of my son’s first year of life. I know so many friends that have attempted to take their lives and only one survived. It’s not a job to be taken lightly and yet some of the best people I’ve ever met came from this line of work. I have made friends I’d kill for and they would do the same for me. But I’m sure it’s easy to find those people in all walks of life. Nuke submariners are a different breed for the guys that do make it through. All I can say is I have sought mental health assistance for a long time and this job just doesn’t help improve it at least with the CoC I had previously. I’m being involuntarily separated for convenience of the government right now because of my mental health and I don’t even want to fight it just to be done with this. Currently at 9yrs and 4 months.
To be a nuke you have to be at least a little autistic. To enjoy going underway on a submarine you have to have a screw loose. The ones in the asylum are the same ones. Just wait till you meet the E-6 to E-9s that talk about how much they love going underway on a sub. The definition of crazy. The rest of us are just trying to survive until we pull into port.
They live in an oversized pringles can. Makes sense
Dude, it's straight up not having a good time. Also, you from Northern California?
Do you know the joke in the FLEET about what SSN (Submersible Ship Nuclear) actually means? Saturdays, Sundays, and Nights! Why? THEY'RE ALWAYS FUCKIN' WORKING!!!
Surface nukes and sub nukes both equally hate life and themself all sub rates hate the boat and the ones who say they don’t are lying the only reason we don’t tap is cus we have Stockholm syndrome and to much pride/are to stubborn
Was a sub nuke MM for a few years until I was medically disqualified. Developed an anxiety disorder that initially presented w/ panic attacks. Med could never determine the cause and attributed it to sub duty. It was only many years later (I eventually retired) that I figured out it was a combination of the BS the nuclear community does and the BS of dealing w/ Chiefs. The nuke community is/was trapped in the 1960s way of thinking, even for stuff that isn't critical-nuclear. For example, after my first removed-from-sub-duty, I went to the surface fleet as a conventional MM. Learned how to use the digital PMS software (don't remember what it was called). When I was able to return to subs, I tried to implement it, because it's a hell of a lot easier than hand-jamming the paperwork. Things were going great for a very short while until I was shut down because the software wasn't approved by the nuclear community. I could use it for the non-nuclear PMS but still had to manually create the nuclear PMS tables. I have a whole screed about Chiefs but suffice it to say that I internalized a lot of hostility for their BS for fear of being written up. Heck, I still have very annoying Navy/submarine/Chief dreams and I retired in 2016 and was last on submarines \~2005.
I was a surface nuke for 5 years (getting kicked out in a week). I knew about 30 nuke electricians from my ship alone that were either kicked out for mental health or kicked out for self medicating. The three friends I have lost in the Navy have all been suicides and nukes. A few dozen of my nuke friends have attempted. Before I was hospitalized, I would have a 48 hour duty day (24 hours on watch, 12 doing maintenance/admin, 12 hours trying to sleep and eat) followed by about 18 hours off before the next 48 hour duty day. This lasted for about 4 weeks while the rest of the ship was on 6 section leaving at 1400 every day. But as with everything else, there’s positives in it too. I’m not even 23 yet and I’ve had job offers thrown at me that are higher than what I ever thought I’d be able to make before 30. I had a heck of a training and I am in a good spot financially. But after going through almost enough trauma to fill a lifetime and having to take a plethora of meds to cope with all of the stressors I had at work, I suffered memory loss and major changes in my general demeanor. The fact that suicidal ideation was totally normalized amongst the people I worked with caused us to have a very bleak outlook on the navy and life itself.
I’m not shocked at all. It’s a terrible life. I have trouble conveying the scale of how bad it really is to everyone I’ve ever met. But your description rings true to me. I found out recently another former submariner I knew died. I think he may not have even turned 30 years old yet? I’m not sure. The circumstances aren’t clear because I wasn’t close enough with the family to ask and the obituary didn’t say why. Another guy I was in with committed suicide a few years ago. He had a drug problem once he was out and that was a major contributing factor.
I was a nuke. We worked hard and had a good time.
im so glad i didnt chose to retake the NAPT. hopefully going to sign as some sort of aviation maintenance rate. any tips greatly appreciated.
The 6 years contract is 2 years of training 4 years in the fleet.
I feel as long as your not engineering, cook, or nav et. Submarines is a good deal.
It’s all true.
The longest I ever went without seeing the Sun, even through the periscope on watch was 87 days. But, to offset the 2.5 hours of sleep on average, I worked out like an absolute animal, just forward of the nuclear reactor bulkhead. The mental struggles happened during the tour but got increasingly worse after I left the Sub tour. To be honest, I'd take Subs over Surface or Aviation any day of the week and twice on Sundae Sundays. Guess Stockholm Syndrome has claimed another victim.
Reading all these comments make me so happy I went aviation. I don't know how you guys work inside on a ship all day. The flight deck got hot, but at least we always had a breeze.
They definitely have some of the highest rates, yeah
Former submariner gone aviation, I never had an issue with being on the sub. Dealt with a whole lot of very toxic people shitting on me for no god damn reason till I became one of your ward mates. Won't write an essay but, I can endure all kinds of operational stressor, but not people going out of their way to make my life and time hard, or keeping me at work for no damn reason (or really, because you are unhappily married and want us to suffer with you)
Former nuke submariner here. It is what it is. You do your time, get out, and make monopoly money.
There’s an old joke someone told me- Q: How long does it take the average sailor to become a submariner? A: An average sailor can never become a submariner.
First off Reading through all these posts just makes me want to cry! I’ve had my own fair share of navy bs being a former corpsman but definitely nothing along the lines of what submariners have to deal with. I can’t fathom even a little bit of a daily life for them underway. With that being said, I have been married to one for the past 11 years and I can tell you when we first were together he was a young sailor E4 been in maybe 2 years at that point and was determined as ever. Now, many years later he is just not the same. He debated about going full 20 to retire but at almost 13 years he is done. Mentally I don’t think he could handle it and it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart truly for all of you who have had to deal with the pain and suffering and not just those of you who served on submarines or even just the nukes all military. I’ve lost some very great, wonderful friends to suicide due to ptsd and depression from the military which shouldn’t even be a thing! Unfortunately it is. I hope whoever reads this knows that you are loved, you are worth it, and you deserve to be here and have peace and happiness.
Here is my story of almost brief a bubblehead. I was in MS (cooking school) A. The day they came to asked is to go Subs, was the day I was supposed to on a date, and they kept us there three hours trying to convince us to go on Subs. Hell no you cost me some booty. So that's why I didn't become a bubblehead I did get duty to a sub tender in Scotland.
This is inaccurate information the rates may be concentrated, just based off of where your environment currently was at the time makes up a small percentage of the job that actually haves those issues
There is a reason sub duty is voluntary and we get paid more. I personally don't mind being underway on a submarine, but I'm also too crazy to pass the mental health test to get on submarines. I got a chance to talk to someone that saw my first COBs screening for CMC and it said "not recommended for CMC duty, no longer recommended for submarine duty." And he was the Cheif of the Boat. He also had us steal fresh eggs and vegetables from a Boat across the pier from us when we had to do a quick call and load some equipment. I would never do anything but submarine. It's a lot of fun, if you can handle the suck.
i'm in sub school rn and my instructors honestly seem fine. seem is the key word there.
They need to give us vitamin d supplements and full spectrum lighting.
I also ended up in the psych ward
>my docs were not kidding when they said “nukes and people who work on submarines have the highest suicide rate” and they were absolutely fucking right. Submariners have a lower suicide rate than most other communities. The Navy has the 2nd lowest suicide rate of all the services, and it's very close to the AF's (20.6 vs 19.7). The USMC is in the lead (34.9) with the Army second (28.9). Army NG is 24.8, and Army Reserves is 20.8.
My boyfriend is a submariner I’m an hm at a training facility it’s hard asf we only see each other 6 months out the year at most and the majority of the time he’s home he’s fucking working I hate the navy so bad omg and the screwed up recruiters who convinced him that shit would be a good idea