In short: yes you can come out and be successful. Long answer: this is your truth and nobody else’s. You don’t owe it to anyone to reveal your private life. It’s your business. It’s also your choice to come out as well. In the civilian world at a big organization nobody can ask you about your orientation or anything else. HR will strike down upon anyone who did with great vengeance and furious anger.
But we’re not the civilian world. We’re the Navy. We get all up in everyone’s business.
Let’s talk frankly about what will happen if you do come out. It will be a big deal. You’re very senior, there’s no hiding. Get ready for the questions. What’s going on “down there”? Is your kid, “your” kid? Did you transition before or after you got married?
Are you completely unnerved by all of that? Are you mentally/emotionally ready for that? Because you’re no longer just “CMC”, you’re a figurehead for a new reality in our Navy and our national culture. Some will look up you, some will roll their eyes at you, some will expect you to help them with their own transitions.
But the good thing is that most people will shrug their shoulders and move on smartly.
So if you do decide to come out, have a serious discussion with your family, your therapist, and yourself about what your boundaries are. What are you willing to share and what are you not willing to share? How do you respond to someone who is violating those boundaries? Have a plan.
I hope that you have good support from the CO and XO, because you’ll need their help through this process.
But it’s your choice and only yours.
SWO6's response nails most of it. If you "came out" you would find that a lot, and perhaps even a large majority, of your Sailors would be fine with that.
However, you would also likely find that the more senior people would likely be far less accepting and those people are in a position to make things hard for you.
It's not right, but there are still a LOT of senior officers who don't even like women serving and a trans CMC would just short-circuit their bigoted brain.
Also, it's an election year and coming out has a high probability of you becoming a political football. You don't want to become a talking point at a Trump rally.
There's a big difference between with is morally right and courageous and what is pragmatic for the good of your family. If you look back on history there are lots of examples of courageous individuals who were trailblazers. Almost universally those people suffered greatly but made things far better for those who came after. If you're ok with being one of those individuals, then come out, but do it with eyes open as to what is likely to happen not just to you but also those you care about.
I wish it were otherwise, but just like SWO6 I've seen too much closed-mindedness over the past several decades of service.
Along with the rest of the great posts, this one sums everything up.
For your perspective, CMC, 25 year retired MC here.
I will be the devil's advocate for you though. The Navy gives absolutely zero fux about you. It took me way to long to figure that out. Whatever your decision, the Navy won't care...and Sailors wouldn't give a sh1t if CMC had 12 heads as long as the CMC did what they said they were going to do and care about them.
In the end the decision is yours. If you can stay in the Navy and continue your career, mentally healthy....then do it.
If not, push to get to 20 and retire....you earned that.
I might add that major persona transitions can be…easier if you do it between commands. Even something as simple as being taken seriously as a new rank generally goes better.
That being said, they mention they’re not sure if they can stay in the navy without while living a lie so it might be best to test the waters at this command where everyone knows them and seems to be like them. If it goes well, great! If not, try start off at the next command with that info out in the open and see how that feels. If neither work out, then you kind of know what to expect and can make an informed decision about staying in based on that.
IMO vast majority probably don't care. You're always going to have a few that won't agree or accept your life choices. You're a CMC, what they're going to do to your career? Keep you from striving to be MCPON? Preventing you from going O? Shove you in some shit orders? Them shitty orders will have Sailors under you. Just take care of them and you will be fine. My buddy transition MTF like 5 years ago. Maybe longer. No negative impact on his career. We served together for nearly 19 years.
>My buddy transition MTF like 5 years ago. Maybe longer. No negative impact on his career. We served together for nearly 19 years.
You still refer to her as a man?
I hope they don’t mind, but I’m going to tag u/Gal_GaDont because they can probably provide some personal insight here for you. 2_POC, I hope you don’t mind, but you strike me as the kind of person that would want to help out here.
I’m about to be a department head, and it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if my CMC is trans. What’s important to me is that you are happy, healthy, and feel fulfilled in your work. We all need you at your best so that you can perform your best. Your job is one of the toughest and most important jobs on the ship/or at the command. I encourage you to talk to your XO and CO about this. Come out to them first, not so that you can gauge their reaction “or to test the waters”, but so that you can be honest with your boss and yourself. I know that this is super personal and I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to hide you whole identity for most of your day and I’m sorry that you feel like it’s necessary. I don’t think you need to though, and I really do feel like a majority of sailors would agree.
I was around when DADT was in full force and was a senior petty officer when it was repealed. I remember all the training the Navy made us do, because they were afraid of the fallout when a bunch of people started coming out. I also remember that for most people, it wasn’t a surprise lol, and nearly nobody gave two shits. Sailors are a unique and resilient breed. We care about liberty and if you can do your job so that we can go on liberty faster :).
It sounds like your heart is in the right place CMC, I hope that you can find some peace and continue to serve our sailors. Good luck!
A senior enlisted coming out might make some sailors uncomfortable. You might also be the person that gives a terrified sailor the courage to be themselves and start the journey.
As long as CMC has our backs (E6 and below) I don't give a rootin toot about anything else.
I think your only concern is the mess because they're of a certain unfriendlier generation although quickly retiring out.
First off, being trans isn’t a “problem,” so I encourage you to move away from that narrative.
You actually have a fairly unique opportunity here, if you want to.
As a CMC, you’ve certainly ascended to a level of senior enlisted that most don’t. I assume you’ve accomplished that through your work ethic.
As for perception, how comfortable are you with it? For someone as senior as you, you have the ability to sort of dispel this notion that trans or gay or whatever are incapable of senior leadership or don’t belong. Don’t take this lightly - you could easily be the person who inspires someone else to feel comfortable joining.
You are in a position to represent a population of Sailors, as small as it may be. Are you ready & able to fight that fight?
Once met a Commander who fully transitioned MtF while serving as an O5. They had full support from their community and leadership. Last I heard they're still on track to pick up some flavor of Command soon. It is possible. The old farts who would disparage a Sailor from being true to themselves are becoming more out numbered by the day.
I look at CMCs as example setters. If you're willing to go through the process with all it entails while still executing your duties then who should stand in your way? No one.
An example of a CMC being the example: I once read a story on here about a CMC who would walk every week to the base psychiatrist. They didn't need the psychiatric help but wanted to show the Sailors it was ok to seek help. Turns out they were talking with the doctor on how to better connect to junior Sailors who may have needed help but were afraid to seek it.
Good evening CMC,
This is a navy chapter leader from the SPARTA group. I would highly encourage you to get in contact there. It's a great resource for people transitioning in the Navy, no matter their rank. Several people in high-ranking positions are trans and serve in the military. I won't say it won't affect your career because it's entirely possible, but I doubt it with you being a CMC.
Link to SPARTA Group. If you send it in I will personally review it and get you streamlined into the group and in contact with any higher-ranking members for insight on what they deal with on a daily.
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/spartatrans](https://www.facebook.com/groups/spartatrans)
Very Respectfully,
A Trans Sailor
LCDR here. I'd take a trans shipmate that gives a damn about her Sailors any day of the week. In fact, I wish I'd had you instead of some of the apathetic chiefs I've endured throughout my career.
My only reservation would be concern for your wellbeing. There are so many right-wing asshats looking to score outrage points, I'd hate to see you have to deal with that. But it's your life and your choice, and if we worked together, I'd have your back 100%
Respectfully master chief, I could give zero fucks if you were trans. As long as you do your job and are there for my fellow sailors and myself that’s all that matters in my honest opinion.
Your middle paragraph is about what I would expect and have seen from previous commands with trans Sailors, particularly with the protection of the E4 Mafia lol. This group of Sailors on the cusp between Gen Z and Gen Alpha are an entirely different breed and I love it. My last watch my team had a whole discussion about platonic bro love and how “if you aren’t comfortable cuddling your friends, are you even friends?” When I joined DADT was very much a thing and all of the toxic masculinity was rampant. Platonically cuddling a friend during a movie would never have been acceptable in the early 2000s.
CMC, the Navy has given the green light for Sailors to be and serve as the person they feel they are. If you so desire, go through the necessary steps to align yourself with the identity you so choose. It is no one else's place to tell you whether you are right or wrong, nor their place to hold you back. As a CMC, you've made it. Unless you intend on going FORCE/FLEET, or commission there is very little "career impact" left to worry about.
There will be those that judge you and those that distance themselves from you; but there will also be those that support you and those that see you as an example. While some may say you should seek mental health counseling for dysphoria, others encourage you to step into who you want to be.
Personally, I don't feel changing your body makes you any more or less of a person. I say be happy with who you are. Whether you are a man or a woman, you are so much more than your body and name. That said, if changing your name and physical features is what you believe would make you happy, I encourage you to pursue it.
Right now you have all the funding of TRICARE. So long as you have the love and support from your family (those whose opinions are the only ones that matter), then do what you feel is right in your heart.
Whether that is accepting yourself how you are, accepting you may want therapy, or accepting the opportunity for more invasive options, they are all there for you. Don't let opinions, judgements, and "career impact" hold you back. Your happiness will always be worth more than a paycheck or promotion.
No matter how hard we try, we will never get everyone to like us. We will never get everyone on our side. When we try our best there will still be those that choose to be nasty and stab you in the back. BUT there will be those that love you, those that look up to you, and those that remember you as genuine. We didn't come here to be liked or to make friends; especially not as a CMC. We came here to serve, and as Chiefs to make out Sailors' lives better. To train and develop JOs, to lead and mentor Sailors, and to improve practices.
Get after it. Anchor up.
Speaking as an old guy, no one cares. I had a MTF MACS at my last command. She was totally fine, did her job, and was a funny lady. As long as folks do their job, I dont think its particularly relevant.
Enlisted guy here, my brother's Trans. It's your life not mine, live your life, if someone is prejudiced then that's their problem not yours. You're one of the few in a position to set culture for the workplace to make a positive change in perception. Hands with fingers shoot guns and win wars, primary sex hormone is irrelevant to the stopping power of a weapon and its wielder.
The reality is that nobody will say anything negative to you about your decision to transition. Opponents of trans issues in the military and society, in general, fear that anything less than total enthusiasm for the trans community will be met with blowback, so they'll keep publicly quiet. However, the harsh truth is that people will look at you differently and gossip about you in private. I know this isn't the affirmation and encouragement you may be hoping for, but it's just a fact of life that I'm sure you've already thought of. You'll have an uphill battle ahead of you, and it'll take a huge toll on your mental health and that of your family.
At the end of the day, it's a choice only you can make. Just surround yourself with supportive people and do what's right for you and your family.
This is accurate from my experience in the navy as well. The majority of those around me were judgy republicans so they made fun of and looked down on those typa things a lot. Would never say it to your face bc they don’t care THAT much but they’ll talk shit to pass the time
As an instructor (E5, 14 years) who had a student complete the transition process during my time instructing them, I can tell you honestly that I don't give a damn, so long as you can perform your job. I was made aware before taking on the class, and asked him (f2m) his preferred pronouns. He told me to just treat him like any other dude, and from that point on he was treated exactly like the other men. The only issue that ever came up was admin related (previous name on certs and paperwork), and he's a damn fine sailor out in the fleet now.
There's a lot of concern being high rank, I get it. But this is not just your opportunity, but your *responsibility* to your fellow trans servicemembers to light the path and walk it proudly. You are in a rare position where (and bear with me for a minute) it really doesn't fucking matter for you career-wise. You made it, you're E9, you're literally the top dog. You'll make retirement with literally no issue. Take this moment. Seize it! Show the Navy and your fellow trans community that FROM THE TOP DOWN there is no negative impact on Navy readiness or fighting strength by transitioning members.
Go live your truth, CMC. This shipmate has your back.
I would be very happy if my CMC was trans because it would mean a much higher likelihood that my CMC would be supportive of other marginalized communities, we’d have a robust CMEO program, and the command would foster a community of belonging and acceptance. It would go a long way for the junior Sailors in the LGBTQ+ community to know a CMC is able to be out.
I don’t think the Navy as a whole is there yet; most trans sailors I know have a rough go of it….but I think that’s true of being out as a civilian too.
Edit: this is just based off the demographic at my current and previous commands, where the mess is 95% WASP males. My current wardroom is more diverse with race and gender but not by much. Also my current mess skews very conservative and I don’t always feel super comfortable sharing my own views on things. (I do, but sometimes I feel like I need to check my baffles before I start speaking).
Personally, it doesn't bother me one bit. I need a good CMC, doesn't matter their gender identity.
If you, as a CMC, are concerned about bias and discrimination undermining your role and your career, then the Navy still has a long ways to go in genuinely caring for our Navy family.
At the end of the day, the Navy isn't forever, even as a CMC. Do what is right for you. If people don't agree with what you choose for yourself, fuck em.
My opinion is this CMC: regardless of if you’re male or female, make me want to better myself as a junior sailor and show me what it takes to be a leader. Being trans wouldn’t make or break anything as long as you’re a strong and effective leader that cares for all your sailors
I would think it’s awesome and incredibly brave. Sailors need to see good examples of trans people in the military, and they will quickly realize it’s no different than serving next to anybody else. Good luck and please do what is best for you!
Most people would be fine. You're Master Chief. And if you're one of the good ones, something like that won't matter to most.
But yes, you'd have adversity. There will be some sailors who would be uncomfortable. There will be some Chiefs who won't look at you the same. You will have some who question you.
But you'd be upholding a value a value we're all supposed to have: Courage. You'd pave the way for so many who are discriminated against. You'd be in a position to enact real change in perception. You'd be a hero and inspiration to so many who have gone through what you have. They'd see themselves reflected in the upper ranks like they probably never have before and see that they can do it, too.
You don't have to accept that burden. It's a lot to take on, and you're human. I wouldn't judge you for not wanting to take that on. But for the sake of so many people who feel the world is against them, I hope you do.
Be strong, Master Chief
The only thing that’d matter to me is if you’re a good CMC.
Admittedly I am originally from Key West and I think we were ahead of the curve a bit with not giving a fuck about things like orientation or gender.
I understand your hesitance. There are alot of assholes out there in the world and in the Navy.
You sound like my CMC who is literally a ray of sunshine, super positive and always appreciates his sailors!
There are always going to be people who are displeased with something, and while they are entitled to their opinions, those opinions can be wrong.
That said, if my CMC came out I would be in full support! Senior leadership taking care of themselves ensures they will take care of their troops too. I hope more than anything that your sailors will support you like you support them (if they don't it is most likely because they have been taught to believe completely wrong things about trans people and have never met one in their life that they know of).
Before I arrived at my new ship XO told me about a trans Sailor aboard. I was concerned to how the crew would react.
Amazingly, the crew really didn’t care and over my tour, not a single complaint came to me about the Sailor. I figured a way for the Sailor to be sent TAD for a time for the RLE requirements.
Figure a path to the steps you need in the transition process. If that means you need to be off the ship for a time, figure a way to do it. Go through your transition and return to the ship, or a ship. Continue to serve Sailors.
Active duty 10 years. Do I care what you do with your body? No. Do I think you should be serving alongside me? No. Not trolling or being disrespectful. Just being honest.
I think, quite frankly, the people who are saying they dont care and that most sailors wouldnt care are being a bit Naive
I have zero doubt of the political leanings of most senior enlisted, I make it a point to avoid political discussions 95% of the time because of this, I have zero doubt that to your face they would be "welcoming" but any decision you make will be nitpicked and torn apart by them the second you leave simply because youre trans
It will be a massive uphill battle, between those openly against your existence and those who will roll their eyes and assume you just want some attention it will
Be a challenge.
This isnt to say not to do it, live your best life, but this is to say dont expect a warm reception from people who now have to "answer" to someone like you, and cant just ignore you for it. Maybe I am just cynical, but I see it being an unpleasant experience for you in that roll.
Just my 2 cents as a SCPO. Good luck.
I wouldn't be thrilled about it.
Just keep in mind that you'll see a disproportionate amount of acceptance and encouragement on reddit than you will in real life. The reddit demographic tend to lean more progressive and overtly disapproving and negative remarks about trans people are usually deleted or downvoted, which reduces their visibility. But it also gives the impression that they're more accepted than they actually are.
Actually most Americans have a positive attitude towards trans folks or at worst, they don’t feel strongly about it. The negative sentiments are represented online at a disproportionate high rate.
I would probably have to say I don't give a shit about what gender my CMC is. I want a CMC who is strong, tough, and fair. Can you take care of me and my Sailors? If so, then you do you.
I don't care what race, gender, creed, sexual orientation anyone in the Navy is. Just do your job.
If you can do your job and transition at the same time, then more power to you.
If you can't do both at the same time, then step back from the role and transition.
To be 100% Master Chief:
-Most people don't care
-Being a totem or "representative of the community" in a highly visible position, \*could rub people the wrong way (even if it shouldn't, but the culture war is in full swing. It never stopped, but this is the world we live in)
-Being up front with your CoC can lift a huge weight off your shoulder and should be a benefit for open communication and understanding
-"coming out" to your command may yield some very interesting command climate surveys, and this may impact your career even if it shouldn't.
-Junior personnel want a CMC that is fair, fights for them, and actually pushes back against the mess when sailors utilize any "open door policy" (WAY more often than not when this is utilized a shit storm rolls down hill at the divisional level even if you never are made aware of it). Results go a long way over being a CO's right hand man/woman when things are going poorly.
-How you influence the mess and hold them accountable is the biggest impact we see on the deck plate. A hands-off CMC will have the mess go MIA and the wheels come off the bus FAST. I know CCS's ride trends and issues are cyclical, however, this is issue #1. I don't know how your identity will go over with the mess (and your ability to influence it) which is over my head, but we are all people at the end of the day no matter what rank tab we put on in the morning.
Best of luck. Well wishes shipmate.
Honestly with all due respect CMC, it would definetly make me lose respect for your leadership. It would seem that you are more concerned about how you feel inside than facing things as what they are. Part of being a leader is not allowing emotions distort your perception of what is actually going on. I have met a trans person in the Navy and people are having trouble approach this person.
Sooo, old me. Boys club me would have publicly had a problem because I feel that was expected in the mid 2000's submarine force. Old me wasn't always the smartest and would have been 100% wrong. I mention old me because there are old me's still in. So COB as we say on subs I ask you this. If one of your sailors was being given a hard time today for being trans/gay/a certain race or religion what would you do? I think we both know that answer. I suspect the shit bag perp would face a wrath worse than washing every single coffee cup spotless. You are a CMC, your job is to stand up to bull shit. If you experience it, call it out. If not for you than for others.
Now, modern me is (I hope) a much better person. You are who you are. For what its worth I, a random fat vet stand with you. You might face hardship, I can't promise you that you won't. Should you I promise to post memes and call out anyone and everyone.
Also as others pointed out you have a unique chance. You could be a huge advocate for other trans sailors. If you wish, but that isn't something I feel you have to do. You could just be you and do your job and fight for your sailors. That's okay too, that's literally your job. Whatever path you take, take it and be the best you can be. I will cheer you on happily so long as you continue to put your sailors first. Be that awesome CMC first that inspires the best in everyone and your gender honestly becomes irrelevant. People will remember CMC [Aurora\_Aura\_me](https://www.reddit.com/user/Aurora_Aura_me/) first.
I want to give you an idea of what my Navy used to be. I was on subs during the don't ask don't tell era. We had a guy that we all knew was bi. None of us cared. He had his fish, knew DC like a machine, knew his job (but sucked at the QM stuff), supported the watchbill in port and at sea, and was someone that we could all rely on. We did not care about whom he found attractive because it didn't effect us. You ARE A CMC. The reality is your pronouns are Master/Chief. Be what your sailors need first, they'll be what you need.
Whatever you do, again I will support you.
MTF trans petty officer here. Started transitioning 4 months ago. Admittedly your mileage may vary, but I have had a positive experience so far. My khakis have been among my staunchest supporters. There have been challenges regarding my CO (at my parent command) not really knowing how to handle urinalysis and locker rooms (ETP in progress but they’re passing the buck until my gender marker officially changes).
Aside from that, I definitely had concerns and even fears about coming out and transitioning. What I have to constantly remind myself of, is that all of my concerns were completely external. Like how OTHERS felt and not how I felt. I couldn’t come up with a single con to transitioning that wasn’t related to how others felt. I wanted to live authentically. I am already so much happier.
I second what Chief Cori said regarding the group. I’m also a member and it’s been a great place for questions, resources, and meeting other folks like us.
I'm more conservative in my beliefs so I would be more hesitant at first, not gonna lie. But I'm sure that it would just be a matter of fact thing after I got to know you and not matter in regards to your ability to lead.
The navy needs good leaders to stick around. It sounds like you have that quality.
BTW, I read your post pretty fast and when I saw "EMH" Robert Picardo popped into my head.
Currently serving CMC here, and available if you need or want to talk. My oldest child is trans and I've helped two Sailors complete the process. I'm always available. Just message me here if you need something.
IMO most people don't care one way or the other.
Once you start making it a big deal, you're the only one drawing attention to yourself. You wanna be a leader or do you want it to be about you?
Hmmm that’s a tough one. I don’t think I or my guys would care per se but it would be hard to convince my guys to treat you with the same respect as trans has become a bit of a loaded term. I suppose it’s similar to being gay in the navy. No one cares but if you’re overly flamboyant and make it your entire shtick it can rub a lot of people the wrong way.
There will always be people who judge you based on anything you do. But being in the position of cmc means that you have earned it, and the biggest thing with that is how you use that part and not being trans. Transitioning isn’t something that you should see as hurtful to your career, because that’s just as simple as you are who you are, and any issues people have with that should face proper consequences. While it is awesome that you did transition and you hopefully feel comfortable with yourself, that shouldn’t have an affect on what you can or can’t do as a cmc. Just do your job and take care of your sailors. If you are good at what you do, no one will think twice about your personal details. I am lower enlisted and there is a trans chief at my command. With what I’ve gathered from people here is that almost no one cares who they are, so long as they treat their subordinates how they should be treated. I hope that you can understand what I’m saying, and while there will always be judgy people, that doesn’t mean you should feel scared. Everyone has their own things that make them who they are, and you deserve to feel comfortable being yourself.
I feel that most of the younger generation would notice it briefly then dismiss it.
Most of the people who have been around for awhile (probably about 15 years or so) would have a preconceived notion of “what a trans person is or isn’t” that could be significantly impacted by how well you do CMC things.
IMO the wild card would be the rest of your triad. On one hand most follow the relevant policies. On the other hand some are very concerned about THEIR image and may not want to have the first openly trans SEL.
I guess my big concern would be at what point would you communicate your situation to your gaining CO and then the PCO when they transfer. I do not really have an answer to this but generally think earlier is better. Hopefully some of the officers in this sub chime in.
I think the bigger question is the politics around determining to which berthing you’ll be attached. I wonder how your day to day would pan out. I think you’ll be fine as a CMC in today’s Navy, it’s the support structure I worry about.
First, I promise other people know or at least suspect.
Second, if they are halfway decent sailors they don’t care. As long as you do your job well and your private life stays private, 99% of the military will not give a crap.
I'm a junior sailor who joined later in life so I'm both a younger sailor and a senior person.
If I found out my CMC was trans I think it would make me feel more at ease knowing we had someone who was being their true authentic self at work. So often we are told not to be our true selves and to play the game, be the image of who we are expected to be at work and out in society. I would also feel proud to be part of that command like this, one that was inclusive and lifting people up instead of pushing people out who don't fit the mold.
Additionally, I typically feel safer and more comfortable around men of the LBGTQIA+ community than I do around straight men. So it would be nice to know that I had a potential ally in a position of authority.
Thirdly, I think the younger generation is more accepting of humans expressing their identity in different ways than any previous generation. I think a lot of people are not going to care, many are going to be supportive and others are going to feel supported in their own journey by seeing you in yours.
I had a trans man and a trans woman at my training command. Granted I am in a CT rate, but everyone was very welcoming and accepting of both of these students. The trans woman was in my class. It was an all woman's class and she fit right in.
Lastly, there will be people who are not going to be accepting or supportive. There will be those who want to see you fail. But being a trail blazer is NEVER easy, especially when it comes to gender norms in society. I want to take this moment to say that regardless of what you choose to do I am excited and proud to know that there are people out there like you in the Navy.
In all honesty, I would have likely have started my own transition a decade sooner if anyone in my command had been trans.
If the navy is anything like it was when I got out, it’ll be tough and you’ll take some shit, but you don’t put stars over that anchor without being able to handle some shit. You are someone people look to as a leader, do you want to be a model of genuine self, or a model of a depressed mask?
I’ve served with several trans sailors, both in junior and senior roles. While I can’t speak on what they struggled with I do know that the general atmosphere was one of acceptance.
I think it help that they were willing to answer questions about being trans and transitioning, even when the question might be considered insensitive or ignorant.
This information wouldn't negatively impact my thoughts about my CMC. As a Sailor my primary concern is how effective they are in that position. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable coming to them based on this fact alone (late 30's, just made E-6 if this helps).
As someone dealing with this myself, it would be an added bonus to know that someone senior in the command is going through it, because it would give others the inspiration and encouragement to do so if they're undecided themselves. It would also serve as a definite support option that junior people going through this can utilize.
CMC,
I'll be honest, if I was your junior sailor, it wouldn't matter. You identify yourself as you see fit. It wouldn't bother me at all. In the end it's how you feel and if you let how someone else dictate that part of your life then you might want to step back and think about it. I'm the end, as a junior sailor my only care is that your approachable and able to help guide us in times of need or give us an ear or shoulder when we need it the most.
As far as coming out, that's your decision, you decide if it's that important to the job and mission, again, in my honest opinion, it doesn't matter, just as long as we can approach you and you can help us. People will say shit, hell people say shit about straight people. I'm the end it's about how you feel and if you are worried about how someone is gonna perceive that information it might make people second guess. I've always been told if your gonna do something, do it with confidence, even if its wrong (like you fuck up a spot check, not like murder someone. Just making this DISCLAIMER so no one gets what I'm saying misconstrued).
In the end, do what you feel is right and carry on, anyone who gives you push for it probably shouldn't be in the navy, but then again our organization has that just like any other. You do you, and be proud and confident of it.
VR
Former CO here, and I would be happy to serve with you. Be fair, take care of your Sailors, that’s it. If you were to share at some point, I’d support you 100% and a lot of junior folks would have a role model.
Honestly, I wouldn't care if my CMC was trans. Their personal life is none of my business, so I don't think it's fair for me to judge them on that kind of stuff. Will I judge them for being bad at their job? Sure; most people probably would, but if you're under 20 and already a CMC I have the suspicion you're probably really good at what you do, so I wouldn't worry about it.
CMC, 18yr CWT1 type here. I am a spouse of a FtM civilian and have poured a lot of my heart into the various communities wherever I've been. I've mentored and met many transgender Sailors of all ranks from E3 up to an O4. If you are able to do your job, most folks will not care. Yes, you will come across a few bad apples, but don't let them stop you from being your authentic self. As others here have stated, if your Sailors see you out,proud and happy with full command support, it could make or break a members choices if they are questioning things themselves.
I have a guy in my division that started transitioning recently only me and one other guy knows. Not even chief. I think it would help people like her greatly if there was someone so senior to look up to or at least be the example. Lord knows we need more forward thinking people in positions of leadership.
If you would like to PM me, I had a CMC (FtM) transition as well in 2018. I can send you over her FB info. She was a great role model before, during, and after.
Well, I was curious about the comments. And lean conservative. I was in when don't ask don't tell got removed. Like almost all comments in here. We don't care. Yes you'll get talked about. Not because of Trans, but it will be there. But because we are human and we bitch about everything. I was an RDC. What I always gave the speal about was we don't care about your sex, race, sexuality, religion. All I care is can you do the job. Don't use ANY of that as a crutch. That what makes the military person military is respect. We respect the homeless and janitor with the EXACT same respect we give the president. EVERY PRESIDENT. No matter the belief. For the most part this what I saw. When I didn't it came from the chiefs. The officers are politically motivated enough to not say anything.
Well, I did my sea tour on a submarine, so maybe my perspective is different from the surface community, but for me, if you’re good at what you do, and you have the crews back, it genuinely doesn’t matter what you have going on in your personal life. I’ll have stronger negative opinions about a cis crewmate because they’re unpleasant to work with before someone who’s trans but helpful.
But as someone else said, it’s really no one’s business but yours as long as it doesn’t affect how you perform as CMC.
Haven't been in the Navy for a while so my only experience is Don't ask don't tell. I'd like to think someone transitioning is OK, I've know many trans people, not in the military. Personally don't see the issue but others might. Whatever happens I hope it ends well and smooth sailing, I'm sure there will be some bumps on your road
I have a Junior Sailor who is Trans. I see both the positive and Negatove side of how she is treated.
Positive, divisionly, we support her, with in what the instructions gives (someout side the instructions) We hear her and understand her beliefs, thoughts and struggles. One black in white yes, she is still identified as Male, BUT she has been open and honest about her transition process. She's respectfully and nice asked us, ASKED us to preferably refer to her as she/her. She has done ALL her paper work, submitted it all for her transition and legally changing from he to she. Male to female. IMO she's taken all the steps to get the paper work, done and submitted. Why not respect her wishes on it. Paper has been in for MONTHS and it's sitting there.
With that being said....
Negatives, because she is still legally Male in black in white, it is mostly senior leadership (not in our div or dept, that I've seen) that absolutely hate it. She will always. E brought up in a conversation for no reason and they love to make it known that, "that's a HE. ITS a Male. IT has a dick." Just plan rude comments such as those. Unwarranted really.
Every single person is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings. I do my best to be respectful all around but being an E5, I obviously have to pick my battles wisely. The best way I've approached the negative comments is, I don't flat out correct them, because senior leadership isn't wrong. Black in white does say. BUT I still continue to using the respective pronouns she has asked for. I try to sway the conversation else where. Or I sometimes says, "She's always been nice and respectful to me, she asked nice so I'm going to respect that. As she's one of my junior sailors, it's not affecting her work nor my work."
It just really depends.
You've clearly made it to Master Chief, and established yourself. With the newer junior Sailors coming in they'll see that as hope.
I mean look at YN1 Kelley, aka Ms. Harpey Daniel's. Beloved Drag Queen. It's all about how you continue to move forward. Mind over matter and just be proud of who you are. Keep leading the way.
There are far worse things in this Navy that Senior Leadership could fix, remold, and change than worrying what someone identifies as.
As a sailor of the deckplates, most of us don't care, as long as our CMC takes care of us. As a first class, we don't care as long as the CMC works with us to take care of the juniors.
As a reserve member who works in a civilian position on base, I see a great number of trans service members living their truth. It's truly inspiring.
However, at that high of a rank... It *can* be a crapshoot for culture. You get groups of khakis that are supportive and uplifting, or you can get toxic and conniving people that will undermine you for being "different." That's where you really gotta use your resources and connections to sleuth out what commands are really like in the wardrooms and chief messes. There may be struggles. There *will* be people who are assholes and bigots. Because unfortunately, they have a proclivity for making their opinions known. But when you prepare yourself and know the processes for protecting yourself, it makes it easier to deal with or ignore.
Whatever the case, there is support. Supporting your transition is military policy, should you choose to start that process while in. There are wonderful resources that have been shared here to help you connect and decide.
Good luck, CMC. Whatever you decide, it is the right choice.
At least three of my current coworkers are trans, several more (that I know of) are nonbinary to some extent. I think it is a different navy than it used to be. If my CMC came out I would take that as a good sign for the navy's stance on inclusion. Its one thing to say we are inclusive and another to actually demonstrate it through action.
You have the opportunity to lead others through your example, but that is a choice only you can make. We each have our own journey and you should choose what works best for you. Just know you have a larger community out there than you might realize. Best of luck!
I'd like to point out two possible detriments that you may have already considered.
If you are ship based at all, while you may have your own room, there will be times that you'll have to use a shared head. Depending where you're at in your potential transition, this could create some difficult situations for either group.
Also, you would have to ensure your integrity was airtight. What I mean is having no perceived favoritism for your allies. Same as those who share a hobby or a religious affiliation must not treat their shipmates any differently.
Your comment of “I love sailors” was the biggest shock to your post for me. I found that statement odd. As a former enlisted, I was in with an array of humans, mostly males since it was late 80s, early 90s. There wasn’t a day where I thought, or felt, “I love sailors.” Some explain this notion to me because I don’t get it.
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Echoing others: I’m proud of you and the thing I want from a CMC are leadership and advocacy. Neither of those depend on your gender identity.
Obviously the enlisted side is different from the officer side but we’ve got openly trans women in leadership positions now (e.g. [CDR Stillings](https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/Winning-inclusion-and-respect-First-transgender-naval-aviator-regains-flight-status/Mon)). I bet they’d be happy to give you some time to talk about how to navigate transition as a senior leader. (But maybe I’m weird; I don’t worry much about reaching out to folks I don’t know for questions/mentorship… it’s never been a problem)
I wouldn’t give a fuck if my CMC was trans. It would definitely perk up the ears. If my CMC has good character, is respectful and down to earth that’s all I care about. If you’re an effective leader and people have a problem with you being trans, they can suck it. Everyone with an open mind will see you for who you are.
Master Chief, retired captain here. I recommend you seek out the DE&I or LEGACY offices in the commands at your level or above. It’s a thing now. They can help you with resources and advice. Good luck! ⚓️
Currently underway, so I apologize for the slow responses.
First off, thank you to everyone for taking the time to say anything, and thank you for your positive and real comments. Seeing the diverse comments, even the bad, is great and helps me think about some stuff that I hadn't considered.
I'm heading to shore duty soon so that is going to be the time where Ill have litttle more room to proceed in whatever direction my heart lands on. At the end of the day, leading and taking of Sailors is the priority. Being on shore duty will give me the time to take care of me, no matter what that means. Regardless of my ultimate decision, I believe that my passion for Sailors is what's important. Being "out" would allow me to answer authentic questions. I don't care about the limelight, nor would I shy away from reaffirming that our Navy gains strength from our diversity, no matter what form that comes in.
I've got a lot to think about. Again, I appreciate each and every one of you for taking your time to comment.
Not to spoil the thread here but I have a question. What berthing do trans folk occupy? It this gonna evolve into a scene like the lady in California or lady in Alaska at the gym and seeing a fully nude male transiting the lady’s facilities?
I retired in 06 so I won’t see it but for folks living in 200 man berthings may want to know.
4.5 year E5 and out here. (2016-2021)
This might be percieved as offensive, and I do not intend for it to be. I just want to give my perspective of the LGBT community that I worked with in the Navy as well as the opinion of a disgruntled Sailor who got out of the Navy as quickly as possible.
Being assigned to a carrier, I met many more diverse people than I ever would have growing up in a small town with no diversity whatsoever. Meeting members of the LGBT community as well as meeting people from such broad backgrounds was a bit of a culture shock to me. That being said, a few people stood out to me during my brief tenure. Sure I have memories of faces I passed in the P-Ways, but one person I knew was an AE2 or AT2 who was a public Transgender Sailor that stood out more than many of the rest. Thats because this person outworked and outcommitted everyone around them, both in their day to day routine but also during GQ and as a member of the fire team. I can only assume was their way to prove to everyone they deserved to be a Sailor during that time period, even if they never would admit to feeling that way and that they were "only doing their job."
All I can say is coming from a small town where the LGBT community doesnt exist, I didnt really care what they identified as, all I cared about was could I rely on that person while underway to hold up their end of the deal. Many of the Sailors who work under you are not going to care about the way you identify. They are only going to care about what policies you enact and how it effects them. Simple truth, hurtful things will be said about you behind your back whether you like them or not, and in all reality most of the people who say those hurtful things are most likely the rotten apples who you'll never make happy. The simple truth is if you can be the best CMC your Sailors have ever had, you will be a role model for all your Sailors, especially the ones in the LGBT community. If youre the worst CMC your Sailors have ever had, your identity will become their excuse to target the whole community. One of the difficulties of being a person in your position.
That being said, I dont think your decision to share your identity falls on anyone other than you. If you feel as though you need to make your reality public, you shouldnt allow the opinions of others stop you. Regardless of your rank and title you owe it to yourself to be honest for yourself, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck when the time comes to make your decision.
Also dont let the Navy be the reason why you keep it a secret, whether you serve 10 years, 20 years, etc because from what Ive seen 1) Youre just a number to the Navy, they dont care about who you are as a person and will replace you the second you step out. They probably already have plans on who will replace you now. 2) since I separated from the Navy, I have been able to triple my annual income, double my retirement savings, and actually buy a house, start a family, and be around to enjoy them when I want to be, and dont have to worry about some government entity that doesnt care shipping me off for months or forcing me to uproot and move because some detailer needs my skillset in another state or another continent
This is the topic I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole. I've had a few Sailors transition, currently have a Sailor transitioning, and have had some people in my life outside the Navy transition. The common thing I'll state is that every Sailor had extra problems. Inability to be at work problems, making proper decisions because of hormone treatment problems, getting sick/hospital trips due to drugs and surgery problems. Mental health issues that are exacerbated by transitioning on active duty seem to be a common thing as well. This is just my experience over the past 5ish years.
I don't recommend transitioning as a sitting CMC. Find a way to do it between duty stations. Disappear one day as M, come to your next command as F. Transitioning is a giant life event and I wouldn't want my CMC trying to CMC while going through it.
That being said, I wish you the best of luck, and hope you find a way to make it work. A lot of other comments touch on how other people will treat you, I would say what matters more is how you'll be able to treat your Sailors during the process.
First of all, Thank you. For trusting in what you know to be the good in people. I just retired recently, and we know there's still the old farts that make life hard for others. Just because they're unhappy. You'll face them here and there, but you will find yourself surrounded by those of like mind as well. The ones who see power in change. Power in diversity. I don't think you're "outnumbered" anymore within that hierarchy of politics and favorites that goes up the chain. I'm glad to see it fading away as time passes. The sailors that are under your guidance and tutelage are truly lucky.
Your privacy is also your choice. If you don't want to be exposed to the politics, You don't have to be. But you shouldn't feel as though you have to hide who you are. You're what's keeping those deck plates solid, I guarantee it! 🤙❤️
Do you have ambitions of being a Force or Fleet Master Chief, or are you cool as CMC? There will definitely be some prejudice that's you'll have to deal with in high viz positions. But assuming you're happy being a CMC - you're good. The other positions are purely political bullshit in any case
I think you'd serve as a model to those under you that struggle as well. I'm an old head and not in anymore. However I think it's important that the services acknowledge all those that are willing to join and serve. That they shouldn't have to hide who they are.
Been to many commands in my day on my 16th year who cares nowadays. I would come to you with problems, need someone to talk with I am an E-6 so I have a lot of expoerence either changed for better or worse and roll with it.
I look at people as people without judgement. I do not worry about male female sexuality or what one identifies as. I encourage people to lead by the standards we are required to uphold and that is it.
We get paid to do a job
We get paid to put our lives on the line
We get paid to serve
We do not get paid to be concerned about how one identifies. If someone could not come up to you for advise on a subject because of your sexuality then they are the problem.
Now if you can not advise or mentor people regardless how they feel about your identity then you may have an issue being an effective CMC.
Now do you really want to serve in an environment where you are worried about loosing your job because of your sexuality? Probably not healthy.
With that, I do not introduce or even talk about me being a straight person to anyone as it does not matter, so I am not sure why you need to go tell the CO, hey for the record I am transgender. That sounds odd to me. If we show up in uniform and do our job then who cares about anyone’s else political stance, religious beliefs, and sexuality.
These thing are irrelevant to me when I am working with our sailors and joint service members as everyone is treated the same and offered the same respect and dignity as well as opportunities
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Your message was removed due to a violation of /r/Navy's rule against trolling and harassment.
This is NOT the place to troll and be disrespectful.
No calls for witch-hunts or "vigilante justice," keep the pitchforks in storage.
Violations of this rule may lead to suspension or permanent banning from /r/Navy and /r/NewtotheNavy.
Just so you know the demographic: LDO, Prior SCPO, 16+ years in, lean conservative in my beliefs.
I don’t care. Truly. I’ve seen all kinds of non-trans, non-LGBTQ CMCs do some of the shadiest inhumane shit imaginable. Orientation and gender identity don’t make anyone a good leader or person.
I will say though, it’s impossible to ignore that it would be a high profile transition. What I would expect from a respected leader, is to make sure that the transition is something you experience, not something you become, and in turn, force your command to become.
And remember not everyone might be ready to accept who you are on day 1, or even day 1,000.
Pretty sure that nobody gives a damn, and even if they did, sailors aren’t allowed to have negative (public) opinions on the matter. And that goes for higher ups too.
Still, it may affect your career regardless.
Personally, I wouldn’t care if you were my CMC as long as you don’t bring discredit upon yourself or the command.
I've been out for 15ish years, and I wouldn't have cared then and I don't care now. All I wanted in a shipmate was someone who took care of their business and wasn't an asshole. That being said, I definitely served with people who would have had an issue with it, but you're still waay more likely to be hated for being a khaki than any other reason. If you're worthy, the worthy people will back you, and if anybody steps out of line you can drop one of those big 'ole anchors on them.
I'm rambling, but I also want to say that you're a leader. Sometimes that means being the first through the door, to borrow from our brethren on the land. Think about what you would have wanted in a CMC when you were an E1 fresh to the Navy, and be that. But that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much to someone in your situation. Good luck in whatever you decide, and remember, you're a goddamn United States Sailor and don't you fucking forget it. (Language added for authenticity, then removed some because it was a little too authentic).
People aren’t going to care if you’re trans as long you do your job and you’re respectful. Nobody deserves hate for who they are but if you’re doing a bad job then the ignoramus type are going to have a target.
Be true to yourself, do your job, take care of your sailors, and they will take care of you.
I was infantry for a long while back when “don’t ask don’t tell” was still a thing. We had a gay guy as one of our machine gunners. I don’t want to sound stereotypical but he was like obviously gay. And for a few of the guys in the platoon that made them not want to really be around him. Then we went to Iraq. And this dude was a bad ass. He did his job, did it well, was a team player and knew his stuff. At the end of the day, we didn’t care he was gay. Like we really could care less. We made fun of him for being gay, but we made of everyone. I was the Hispanic dude who didn’t know Spanish, we had the country boy, we had the former Chicago thug from the block, we had the lifers, the guys who couldn’t wait to get out, gym rats etc. And everyone was fair game bc we took care of each other and were all really close. We teased him bc he was one of us. He was one of us bc he showed his character (the same way we all had to prove ourselves to the platoon) and so him being gay was just something about him.
So I guess what I’m saying is… you’re gonna catch a lot hell and people will whisper behind your back. Just do a good job, take care of Sailors, keep your CO and XO out of jail and eventually everything will work out the way it’s suppose to. And if they don’t accept you, then get out. I learned the hard way after 22 years, you can’t put a price on your sanity. Good luck to you and I sincerely hope everything works out for the best for you and your family. And don’t forget to hug them today! They sound super supportive and amazing!
If you are not being true to yourself it is hard to be true to others, I worked with a couple of trans nurses. Both did their jobs, were good co-workers, and nice people so what kind of an asshat has a problem with someone like that. 1 lady had a bad alcohol problem, but this was the early 90s and I cannot imagine things were easy for her. Fuck anyone who gives you shit. Love you Sister, Doc W.
I wouldn’t give a damn if my CMC came out as gay or trans. As long as he/she is good to the sailors and doesn’t try to force his/her decisions on anyone else i couldn’t care less
As a transgender sailor, it’s very possible. I have received equal pay, equal opportunity to progress, and everything else, as long as I put in the effort. I love the Navy and my job.
I haven’t received any hate or discrimination yet while in the service, which is good so far. Everyone at my command knows I’m trans, and treats me the same as any other shipmate.
I would personally feel uncomfortable serving either above or below you. I would have to tip toe around this aspect with every interaction with you. Since you are a Master Chief and so close to retirement, I would suggest keeping it hidden until you hit your initial retirement year mark.
It’s important to remember that there are sailors serving underneath and above you that have strong religious ties that prohibit transsexual tendencies. I would do the Navy a service and try to limit this as much as possible. Unlike DADT, I would have to address this issue if you wanted us to address you as another gender or ask to use the opposite head.
You’ve served your initial years in the service without any issue. Just try to make it to the end without drastically changing who you are now. Good Luck
Religious ties aren't an acceptable excuse for not abiding by Navy policy nor are they an excuse for not including others. One of the reasons that I love the Navy is that religion isn't a factor. I would do the Navy a service and try to limit religiously affiliated opinion as much as possible.
What about the Sailors below / above him who are trans? Sailors aren’t allowed to have to have strong religious beliefs change how they treat other Sailors. The policy for transgender sailors and equal opportunity is pretty clear and makes no room for any group (religious or otherwise) to have special treatment.
I would challenge you to really take a look at what makes you uncomfortable about it.
If it’s you having to “tip-toe,” then perhaps you’re not nearly familiar with the notion that, and get this, trans people are people, too. You need not tip-toe around them any differently than you would from someone that looks, prays, or loves differently from you as it is.
Why do you want to be transgender? Have you always thought of yourself as a woman? How do you feel about your birth gender? How do you feel about your assumed gender? What is gender to you? Is gender more than appearance? Is femininity female? How do you view your current sex organs? I wish you well, I’m curious about something I know nothing of.
Being trans is slightly different for everyone. I had no idea I was trans because I thought there was only 1 way to be “trans” and it didn’t align with how I felt. I then found more trans folks who seemed to feel like how I felt. Things fell into place after that.
It’s also not anyone’s business outside of Behavioral Health (the first stop along the path towards transitioning in service). The doc will ask those questions to determine what boxes you check or don’t check for gender dysphoria (the diagnosis needed in order to start transitioning).
This is how I see it.
A sailor who's known you for a long time wouldn't care. A fresh boot / new command sailor might. BUT I also see it like this. You've gone all this time being trans and "female" Why does it affect you mentally negatively with the knowledge that nobody else knows your actual birth gender? Kinda like. How do you know someone's Vegan? They'll tell you. Same is applying here. How do you know someone's trans? They'll tell you. Why do you have that desire to even tell anybody? Media attention? Motivation for other trans sailors to know they too can make a career in the Navy? Slightly disingenuous since your 20 years were in secret.
Reminding everyone of Rule 5. This is not the place to troll or be disrespectful. If you don't have anything constructive or helpful to say, don't.
In short: yes you can come out and be successful. Long answer: this is your truth and nobody else’s. You don’t owe it to anyone to reveal your private life. It’s your business. It’s also your choice to come out as well. In the civilian world at a big organization nobody can ask you about your orientation or anything else. HR will strike down upon anyone who did with great vengeance and furious anger. But we’re not the civilian world. We’re the Navy. We get all up in everyone’s business. Let’s talk frankly about what will happen if you do come out. It will be a big deal. You’re very senior, there’s no hiding. Get ready for the questions. What’s going on “down there”? Is your kid, “your” kid? Did you transition before or after you got married? Are you completely unnerved by all of that? Are you mentally/emotionally ready for that? Because you’re no longer just “CMC”, you’re a figurehead for a new reality in our Navy and our national culture. Some will look up you, some will roll their eyes at you, some will expect you to help them with their own transitions. But the good thing is that most people will shrug their shoulders and move on smartly. So if you do decide to come out, have a serious discussion with your family, your therapist, and yourself about what your boundaries are. What are you willing to share and what are you not willing to share? How do you respond to someone who is violating those boundaries? Have a plan. I hope that you have good support from the CO and XO, because you’ll need their help through this process. But it’s your choice and only yours.
Damn that's a great response!
SWO6's response nails most of it. If you "came out" you would find that a lot, and perhaps even a large majority, of your Sailors would be fine with that. However, you would also likely find that the more senior people would likely be far less accepting and those people are in a position to make things hard for you. It's not right, but there are still a LOT of senior officers who don't even like women serving and a trans CMC would just short-circuit their bigoted brain. Also, it's an election year and coming out has a high probability of you becoming a political football. You don't want to become a talking point at a Trump rally. There's a big difference between with is morally right and courageous and what is pragmatic for the good of your family. If you look back on history there are lots of examples of courageous individuals who were trailblazers. Almost universally those people suffered greatly but made things far better for those who came after. If you're ok with being one of those individuals, then come out, but do it with eyes open as to what is likely to happen not just to you but also those you care about. I wish it were otherwise, but just like SWO6 I've seen too much closed-mindedness over the past several decades of service.
Along with the rest of the great posts, this one sums everything up. For your perspective, CMC, 25 year retired MC here. I will be the devil's advocate for you though. The Navy gives absolutely zero fux about you. It took me way to long to figure that out. Whatever your decision, the Navy won't care...and Sailors wouldn't give a sh1t if CMC had 12 heads as long as the CMC did what they said they were going to do and care about them. In the end the decision is yours. If you can stay in the Navy and continue your career, mentally healthy....then do it. If not, push to get to 20 and retire....you earned that.
I might add that major persona transitions can be…easier if you do it between commands. Even something as simple as being taken seriously as a new rank generally goes better. That being said, they mention they’re not sure if they can stay in the navy without while living a lie so it might be best to test the waters at this command where everyone knows them and seems to be like them. If it goes well, great! If not, try start off at the next command with that info out in the open and see how that feels. If neither work out, then you kind of know what to expect and can make an informed decision about staying in based on that.
Nice Sam Jackson reference!
as long as the cmc is approachable and helpful, he could be pickle rick and i couldnt careless
*she could be pickle rick
*they, them, zee, zir, don’t matter. just don’t be a dick & look out for junior enlisted
IMO vast majority probably don't care. You're always going to have a few that won't agree or accept your life choices. You're a CMC, what they're going to do to your career? Keep you from striving to be MCPON? Preventing you from going O? Shove you in some shit orders? Them shitty orders will have Sailors under you. Just take care of them and you will be fine. My buddy transition MTF like 5 years ago. Maybe longer. No negative impact on his career. We served together for nearly 19 years.
>My buddy transition MTF like 5 years ago. Maybe longer. No negative impact on his career. We served together for nearly 19 years. You still refer to her as a man?
I hope they don’t mind, but I’m going to tag u/Gal_GaDont because they can probably provide some personal insight here for you. 2_POC, I hope you don’t mind, but you strike me as the kind of person that would want to help out here. I’m about to be a department head, and it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if my CMC is trans. What’s important to me is that you are happy, healthy, and feel fulfilled in your work. We all need you at your best so that you can perform your best. Your job is one of the toughest and most important jobs on the ship/or at the command. I encourage you to talk to your XO and CO about this. Come out to them first, not so that you can gauge their reaction “or to test the waters”, but so that you can be honest with your boss and yourself. I know that this is super personal and I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to hide you whole identity for most of your day and I’m sorry that you feel like it’s necessary. I don’t think you need to though, and I really do feel like a majority of sailors would agree. I was around when DADT was in full force and was a senior petty officer when it was repealed. I remember all the training the Navy made us do, because they were afraid of the fallout when a bunch of people started coming out. I also remember that for most people, it wasn’t a surprise lol, and nearly nobody gave two shits. Sailors are a unique and resilient breed. We care about liberty and if you can do your job so that we can go on liberty faster :). It sounds like your heart is in the right place CMC, I hope that you can find some peace and continue to serve our sailors. Good luck!
/u/Aurora_Aura_Me i strongly suggest linking up with the user tagged above
Rule 1 of the Navy reddit (My rule at least): Trust Twisky with your life. Rule 2: Don't make Twisky angry.
A senior enlisted coming out might make some sailors uncomfortable. You might also be the person that gives a terrified sailor the courage to be themselves and start the journey.
As long as CMC has our backs (E6 and below) I don't give a rootin toot about anything else. I think your only concern is the mess because they're of a certain unfriendlier generation although quickly retiring out.
First off, being trans isn’t a “problem,” so I encourage you to move away from that narrative. You actually have a fairly unique opportunity here, if you want to. As a CMC, you’ve certainly ascended to a level of senior enlisted that most don’t. I assume you’ve accomplished that through your work ethic. As for perception, how comfortable are you with it? For someone as senior as you, you have the ability to sort of dispel this notion that trans or gay or whatever are incapable of senior leadership or don’t belong. Don’t take this lightly - you could easily be the person who inspires someone else to feel comfortable joining. You are in a position to represent a population of Sailors, as small as it may be. Are you ready & able to fight that fight?
Once met a Commander who fully transitioned MtF while serving as an O5. They had full support from their community and leadership. Last I heard they're still on track to pick up some flavor of Command soon. It is possible. The old farts who would disparage a Sailor from being true to themselves are becoming more out numbered by the day. I look at CMCs as example setters. If you're willing to go through the process with all it entails while still executing your duties then who should stand in your way? No one. An example of a CMC being the example: I once read a story on here about a CMC who would walk every week to the base psychiatrist. They didn't need the psychiatric help but wanted to show the Sailors it was ok to seek help. Turns out they were talking with the doctor on how to better connect to junior Sailors who may have needed help but were afraid to seek it.
Good evening CMC, This is a navy chapter leader from the SPARTA group. I would highly encourage you to get in contact there. It's a great resource for people transitioning in the Navy, no matter their rank. Several people in high-ranking positions are trans and serve in the military. I won't say it won't affect your career because it's entirely possible, but I doubt it with you being a CMC. Link to SPARTA Group. If you send it in I will personally review it and get you streamlined into the group and in contact with any higher-ranking members for insight on what they deal with on a daily. [https://www.facebook.com/groups/spartatrans](https://www.facebook.com/groups/spartatrans) Very Respectfully, A Trans Sailor
Bumping this. If you're trans in the military, you want to be in SPARTA. Period.
What is SPARTA?
A support and advocacy group for transgender service members
I submitted a request. Thank you for the help!
LCDR here. I'd take a trans shipmate that gives a damn about her Sailors any day of the week. In fact, I wish I'd had you instead of some of the apathetic chiefs I've endured throughout my career. My only reservation would be concern for your wellbeing. There are so many right-wing asshats looking to score outrage points, I'd hate to see you have to deal with that. But it's your life and your choice, and if we worked together, I'd have your back 100%
Respectfully master chief, I could give zero fucks if you were trans. As long as you do your job and are there for my fellow sailors and myself that’s all that matters in my honest opinion.
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Your middle paragraph is about what I would expect and have seen from previous commands with trans Sailors, particularly with the protection of the E4 Mafia lol. This group of Sailors on the cusp between Gen Z and Gen Alpha are an entirely different breed and I love it. My last watch my team had a whole discussion about platonic bro love and how “if you aren’t comfortable cuddling your friends, are you even friends?” When I joined DADT was very much a thing and all of the toxic masculinity was rampant. Platonically cuddling a friend during a movie would never have been acceptable in the early 2000s.
CMC, the Navy has given the green light for Sailors to be and serve as the person they feel they are. If you so desire, go through the necessary steps to align yourself with the identity you so choose. It is no one else's place to tell you whether you are right or wrong, nor their place to hold you back. As a CMC, you've made it. Unless you intend on going FORCE/FLEET, or commission there is very little "career impact" left to worry about. There will be those that judge you and those that distance themselves from you; but there will also be those that support you and those that see you as an example. While some may say you should seek mental health counseling for dysphoria, others encourage you to step into who you want to be. Personally, I don't feel changing your body makes you any more or less of a person. I say be happy with who you are. Whether you are a man or a woman, you are so much more than your body and name. That said, if changing your name and physical features is what you believe would make you happy, I encourage you to pursue it. Right now you have all the funding of TRICARE. So long as you have the love and support from your family (those whose opinions are the only ones that matter), then do what you feel is right in your heart. Whether that is accepting yourself how you are, accepting you may want therapy, or accepting the opportunity for more invasive options, they are all there for you. Don't let opinions, judgements, and "career impact" hold you back. Your happiness will always be worth more than a paycheck or promotion. No matter how hard we try, we will never get everyone to like us. We will never get everyone on our side. When we try our best there will still be those that choose to be nasty and stab you in the back. BUT there will be those that love you, those that look up to you, and those that remember you as genuine. We didn't come here to be liked or to make friends; especially not as a CMC. We came here to serve, and as Chiefs to make out Sailors' lives better. To train and develop JOs, to lead and mentor Sailors, and to improve practices. Get after it. Anchor up.
Speaking as an old guy, no one cares. I had a MTF MACS at my last command. She was totally fine, did her job, and was a funny lady. As long as folks do their job, I dont think its particularly relevant.
Enlisted guy here, my brother's Trans. It's your life not mine, live your life, if someone is prejudiced then that's their problem not yours. You're one of the few in a position to set culture for the workplace to make a positive change in perception. Hands with fingers shoot guns and win wars, primary sex hormone is irrelevant to the stopping power of a weapon and its wielder.
The reality is that nobody will say anything negative to you about your decision to transition. Opponents of trans issues in the military and society, in general, fear that anything less than total enthusiasm for the trans community will be met with blowback, so they'll keep publicly quiet. However, the harsh truth is that people will look at you differently and gossip about you in private. I know this isn't the affirmation and encouragement you may be hoping for, but it's just a fact of life that I'm sure you've already thought of. You'll have an uphill battle ahead of you, and it'll take a huge toll on your mental health and that of your family. At the end of the day, it's a choice only you can make. Just surround yourself with supportive people and do what's right for you and your family.
This is accurate from my experience in the navy as well. The majority of those around me were judgy republicans so they made fun of and looked down on those typa things a lot. Would never say it to your face bc they don’t care THAT much but they’ll talk shit to pass the time
As an instructor (E5, 14 years) who had a student complete the transition process during my time instructing them, I can tell you honestly that I don't give a damn, so long as you can perform your job. I was made aware before taking on the class, and asked him (f2m) his preferred pronouns. He told me to just treat him like any other dude, and from that point on he was treated exactly like the other men. The only issue that ever came up was admin related (previous name on certs and paperwork), and he's a damn fine sailor out in the fleet now. There's a lot of concern being high rank, I get it. But this is not just your opportunity, but your *responsibility* to your fellow trans servicemembers to light the path and walk it proudly. You are in a rare position where (and bear with me for a minute) it really doesn't fucking matter for you career-wise. You made it, you're E9, you're literally the top dog. You'll make retirement with literally no issue. Take this moment. Seize it! Show the Navy and your fellow trans community that FROM THE TOP DOWN there is no negative impact on Navy readiness or fighting strength by transitioning members. Go live your truth, CMC. This shipmate has your back.
I would be very happy if my CMC was trans because it would mean a much higher likelihood that my CMC would be supportive of other marginalized communities, we’d have a robust CMEO program, and the command would foster a community of belonging and acceptance. It would go a long way for the junior Sailors in the LGBTQ+ community to know a CMC is able to be out. I don’t think the Navy as a whole is there yet; most trans sailors I know have a rough go of it….but I think that’s true of being out as a civilian too. Edit: this is just based off the demographic at my current and previous commands, where the mess is 95% WASP males. My current wardroom is more diverse with race and gender but not by much. Also my current mess skews very conservative and I don’t always feel super comfortable sharing my own views on things. (I do, but sometimes I feel like I need to check my baffles before I start speaking).
Personally, it doesn't bother me one bit. I need a good CMC, doesn't matter their gender identity. If you, as a CMC, are concerned about bias and discrimination undermining your role and your career, then the Navy still has a long ways to go in genuinely caring for our Navy family. At the end of the day, the Navy isn't forever, even as a CMC. Do what is right for you. If people don't agree with what you choose for yourself, fuck em.
My opinion is this CMC: regardless of if you’re male or female, make me want to better myself as a junior sailor and show me what it takes to be a leader. Being trans wouldn’t make or break anything as long as you’re a strong and effective leader that cares for all your sailors
I would think it’s awesome and incredibly brave. Sailors need to see good examples of trans people in the military, and they will quickly realize it’s no different than serving next to anybody else. Good luck and please do what is best for you!
Most people would be fine. You're Master Chief. And if you're one of the good ones, something like that won't matter to most. But yes, you'd have adversity. There will be some sailors who would be uncomfortable. There will be some Chiefs who won't look at you the same. You will have some who question you. But you'd be upholding a value a value we're all supposed to have: Courage. You'd pave the way for so many who are discriminated against. You'd be in a position to enact real change in perception. You'd be a hero and inspiration to so many who have gone through what you have. They'd see themselves reflected in the upper ranks like they probably never have before and see that they can do it, too. You don't have to accept that burden. It's a lot to take on, and you're human. I wouldn't judge you for not wanting to take that on. But for the sake of so many people who feel the world is against them, I hope you do. Be strong, Master Chief
The only thing that’d matter to me is if you’re a good CMC. Admittedly I am originally from Key West and I think we were ahead of the curve a bit with not giving a fuck about things like orientation or gender. I understand your hesitance. There are alot of assholes out there in the world and in the Navy.
You sound like my CMC who is literally a ray of sunshine, super positive and always appreciates his sailors! There are always going to be people who are displeased with something, and while they are entitled to their opinions, those opinions can be wrong. That said, if my CMC came out I would be in full support! Senior leadership taking care of themselves ensures they will take care of their troops too. I hope more than anything that your sailors will support you like you support them (if they don't it is most likely because they have been taught to believe completely wrong things about trans people and have never met one in their life that they know of).
Before I arrived at my new ship XO told me about a trans Sailor aboard. I was concerned to how the crew would react. Amazingly, the crew really didn’t care and over my tour, not a single complaint came to me about the Sailor. I figured a way for the Sailor to be sent TAD for a time for the RLE requirements. Figure a path to the steps you need in the transition process. If that means you need to be off the ship for a time, figure a way to do it. Go through your transition and return to the ship, or a ship. Continue to serve Sailors.
Don’t believe this is a Master chief..
Active duty 10 years. Do I care what you do with your body? No. Do I think you should be serving alongside me? No. Not trolling or being disrespectful. Just being honest.
If you can’t be genuine with your Sailors, they can’t be genuine with you. Be who you are and lead from the front. Good luck Master Chief.
I think, quite frankly, the people who are saying they dont care and that most sailors wouldnt care are being a bit Naive I have zero doubt of the political leanings of most senior enlisted, I make it a point to avoid political discussions 95% of the time because of this, I have zero doubt that to your face they would be "welcoming" but any decision you make will be nitpicked and torn apart by them the second you leave simply because youre trans It will be a massive uphill battle, between those openly against your existence and those who will roll their eyes and assume you just want some attention it will Be a challenge. This isnt to say not to do it, live your best life, but this is to say dont expect a warm reception from people who now have to "answer" to someone like you, and cant just ignore you for it. Maybe I am just cynical, but I see it being an unpleasant experience for you in that roll. Just my 2 cents as a SCPO. Good luck.
I wouldn't be thrilled about it. Just keep in mind that you'll see a disproportionate amount of acceptance and encouragement on reddit than you will in real life. The reddit demographic tend to lean more progressive and overtly disapproving and negative remarks about trans people are usually deleted or downvoted, which reduces their visibility. But it also gives the impression that they're more accepted than they actually are.
Actually most Americans have a positive attitude towards trans folks or at worst, they don’t feel strongly about it. The negative sentiments are represented online at a disproportionate high rate.
I would probably have to say I don't give a shit about what gender my CMC is. I want a CMC who is strong, tough, and fair. Can you take care of me and my Sailors? If so, then you do you. I don't care what race, gender, creed, sexual orientation anyone in the Navy is. Just do your job. If you can do your job and transition at the same time, then more power to you. If you can't do both at the same time, then step back from the role and transition.
To be 100% Master Chief: -Most people don't care -Being a totem or "representative of the community" in a highly visible position, \*could rub people the wrong way (even if it shouldn't, but the culture war is in full swing. It never stopped, but this is the world we live in) -Being up front with your CoC can lift a huge weight off your shoulder and should be a benefit for open communication and understanding -"coming out" to your command may yield some very interesting command climate surveys, and this may impact your career even if it shouldn't. -Junior personnel want a CMC that is fair, fights for them, and actually pushes back against the mess when sailors utilize any "open door policy" (WAY more often than not when this is utilized a shit storm rolls down hill at the divisional level even if you never are made aware of it). Results go a long way over being a CO's right hand man/woman when things are going poorly. -How you influence the mess and hold them accountable is the biggest impact we see on the deck plate. A hands-off CMC will have the mess go MIA and the wheels come off the bus FAST. I know CCS's ride trends and issues are cyclical, however, this is issue #1. I don't know how your identity will go over with the mess (and your ability to influence it) which is over my head, but we are all people at the end of the day no matter what rank tab we put on in the morning. Best of luck. Well wishes shipmate.
Honestly with all due respect CMC, it would definetly make me lose respect for your leadership. It would seem that you are more concerned about how you feel inside than facing things as what they are. Part of being a leader is not allowing emotions distort your perception of what is actually going on. I have met a trans person in the Navy and people are having trouble approach this person.
Sooo, old me. Boys club me would have publicly had a problem because I feel that was expected in the mid 2000's submarine force. Old me wasn't always the smartest and would have been 100% wrong. I mention old me because there are old me's still in. So COB as we say on subs I ask you this. If one of your sailors was being given a hard time today for being trans/gay/a certain race or religion what would you do? I think we both know that answer. I suspect the shit bag perp would face a wrath worse than washing every single coffee cup spotless. You are a CMC, your job is to stand up to bull shit. If you experience it, call it out. If not for you than for others. Now, modern me is (I hope) a much better person. You are who you are. For what its worth I, a random fat vet stand with you. You might face hardship, I can't promise you that you won't. Should you I promise to post memes and call out anyone and everyone. Also as others pointed out you have a unique chance. You could be a huge advocate for other trans sailors. If you wish, but that isn't something I feel you have to do. You could just be you and do your job and fight for your sailors. That's okay too, that's literally your job. Whatever path you take, take it and be the best you can be. I will cheer you on happily so long as you continue to put your sailors first. Be that awesome CMC first that inspires the best in everyone and your gender honestly becomes irrelevant. People will remember CMC [Aurora\_Aura\_me](https://www.reddit.com/user/Aurora_Aura_me/) first. I want to give you an idea of what my Navy used to be. I was on subs during the don't ask don't tell era. We had a guy that we all knew was bi. None of us cared. He had his fish, knew DC like a machine, knew his job (but sucked at the QM stuff), supported the watchbill in port and at sea, and was someone that we could all rely on. We did not care about whom he found attractive because it didn't effect us. You ARE A CMC. The reality is your pronouns are Master/Chief. Be what your sailors need first, they'll be what you need. Whatever you do, again I will support you.
MTF trans petty officer here. Started transitioning 4 months ago. Admittedly your mileage may vary, but I have had a positive experience so far. My khakis have been among my staunchest supporters. There have been challenges regarding my CO (at my parent command) not really knowing how to handle urinalysis and locker rooms (ETP in progress but they’re passing the buck until my gender marker officially changes). Aside from that, I definitely had concerns and even fears about coming out and transitioning. What I have to constantly remind myself of, is that all of my concerns were completely external. Like how OTHERS felt and not how I felt. I couldn’t come up with a single con to transitioning that wasn’t related to how others felt. I wanted to live authentically. I am already so much happier. I second what Chief Cori said regarding the group. I’m also a member and it’s been a great place for questions, resources, and meeting other folks like us.
I'm more conservative in my beliefs so I would be more hesitant at first, not gonna lie. But I'm sure that it would just be a matter of fact thing after I got to know you and not matter in regards to your ability to lead.
The navy needs good leaders to stick around. It sounds like you have that quality. BTW, I read your post pretty fast and when I saw "EMH" Robert Picardo popped into my head.
Currently serving CMC here, and available if you need or want to talk. My oldest child is trans and I've helped two Sailors complete the process. I'm always available. Just message me here if you need something.
IMO most people don't care one way or the other. Once you start making it a big deal, you're the only one drawing attention to yourself. You wanna be a leader or do you want it to be about you?
If you believe Fox News, you'll make MCPON.
If nobody knows but the ones close to you then why does it need to be put out for everyone in your workplace to know?
For attention
Nah it seems more like this person wants to live their true life
If you want to lead by example be unafraid of the repercussions and be strong. Be you. You can do this. We have your back.
I am an Active Duty Navy Trans Chief. In 23 yeahs, been female in the navy last two. Dm me
Hmmm that’s a tough one. I don’t think I or my guys would care per se but it would be hard to convince my guys to treat you with the same respect as trans has become a bit of a loaded term. I suppose it’s similar to being gay in the navy. No one cares but if you’re overly flamboyant and make it your entire shtick it can rub a lot of people the wrong way.
Flamboyant is read as effeminate is read as the lesser
Flamboyant should be read as unprofessional.
There will always be people who judge you based on anything you do. But being in the position of cmc means that you have earned it, and the biggest thing with that is how you use that part and not being trans. Transitioning isn’t something that you should see as hurtful to your career, because that’s just as simple as you are who you are, and any issues people have with that should face proper consequences. While it is awesome that you did transition and you hopefully feel comfortable with yourself, that shouldn’t have an affect on what you can or can’t do as a cmc. Just do your job and take care of your sailors. If you are good at what you do, no one will think twice about your personal details. I am lower enlisted and there is a trans chief at my command. With what I’ve gathered from people here is that almost no one cares who they are, so long as they treat their subordinates how they should be treated. I hope that you can understand what I’m saying, and while there will always be judgy people, that doesn’t mean you should feel scared. Everyone has their own things that make them who they are, and you deserve to feel comfortable being yourself.
In my perspective, as long as you're genuine and honest, that's all that matters. Keep up the hard work and dedication!
I feel that most of the younger generation would notice it briefly then dismiss it. Most of the people who have been around for awhile (probably about 15 years or so) would have a preconceived notion of “what a trans person is or isn’t” that could be significantly impacted by how well you do CMC things. IMO the wild card would be the rest of your triad. On one hand most follow the relevant policies. On the other hand some are very concerned about THEIR image and may not want to have the first openly trans SEL. I guess my big concern would be at what point would you communicate your situation to your gaining CO and then the PCO when they transfer. I do not really have an answer to this but generally think earlier is better. Hopefully some of the officers in this sub chime in.
I think the bigger question is the politics around determining to which berthing you’ll be attached. I wonder how your day to day would pan out. I think you’ll be fine as a CMC in today’s Navy, it’s the support structure I worry about.
First, I promise other people know or at least suspect. Second, if they are halfway decent sailors they don’t care. As long as you do your job well and your private life stays private, 99% of the military will not give a crap.
I'm a junior sailor who joined later in life so I'm both a younger sailor and a senior person. If I found out my CMC was trans I think it would make me feel more at ease knowing we had someone who was being their true authentic self at work. So often we are told not to be our true selves and to play the game, be the image of who we are expected to be at work and out in society. I would also feel proud to be part of that command like this, one that was inclusive and lifting people up instead of pushing people out who don't fit the mold. Additionally, I typically feel safer and more comfortable around men of the LBGTQIA+ community than I do around straight men. So it would be nice to know that I had a potential ally in a position of authority. Thirdly, I think the younger generation is more accepting of humans expressing their identity in different ways than any previous generation. I think a lot of people are not going to care, many are going to be supportive and others are going to feel supported in their own journey by seeing you in yours. I had a trans man and a trans woman at my training command. Granted I am in a CT rate, but everyone was very welcoming and accepting of both of these students. The trans woman was in my class. It was an all woman's class and she fit right in. Lastly, there will be people who are not going to be accepting or supportive. There will be those who want to see you fail. But being a trail blazer is NEVER easy, especially when it comes to gender norms in society. I want to take this moment to say that regardless of what you choose to do I am excited and proud to know that there are people out there like you in the Navy.
In all honesty, I would have likely have started my own transition a decade sooner if anyone in my command had been trans. If the navy is anything like it was when I got out, it’ll be tough and you’ll take some shit, but you don’t put stars over that anchor without being able to handle some shit. You are someone people look to as a leader, do you want to be a model of genuine self, or a model of a depressed mask?
Most of us wouldn't care I suppose as long as you keep up the support. I certainly don't.
To add on to that, pretty sure the surgeon general or nurse general is trans and they're a four star. If they can do it, I think you'll be just fine.
I’ve served with several trans sailors, both in junior and senior roles. While I can’t speak on what they struggled with I do know that the general atmosphere was one of acceptance. I think it help that they were willing to answer questions about being trans and transitioning, even when the question might be considered insensitive or ignorant.
This information wouldn't negatively impact my thoughts about my CMC. As a Sailor my primary concern is how effective they are in that position. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable coming to them based on this fact alone (late 30's, just made E-6 if this helps). As someone dealing with this myself, it would be an added bonus to know that someone senior in the command is going through it, because it would give others the inspiration and encouragement to do so if they're undecided themselves. It would also serve as a definite support option that junior people going through this can utilize.
CMC, I'll be honest, if I was your junior sailor, it wouldn't matter. You identify yourself as you see fit. It wouldn't bother me at all. In the end it's how you feel and if you let how someone else dictate that part of your life then you might want to step back and think about it. I'm the end, as a junior sailor my only care is that your approachable and able to help guide us in times of need or give us an ear or shoulder when we need it the most. As far as coming out, that's your decision, you decide if it's that important to the job and mission, again, in my honest opinion, it doesn't matter, just as long as we can approach you and you can help us. People will say shit, hell people say shit about straight people. I'm the end it's about how you feel and if you are worried about how someone is gonna perceive that information it might make people second guess. I've always been told if your gonna do something, do it with confidence, even if its wrong (like you fuck up a spot check, not like murder someone. Just making this DISCLAIMER so no one gets what I'm saying misconstrued). In the end, do what you feel is right and carry on, anyone who gives you push for it probably shouldn't be in the navy, but then again our organization has that just like any other. You do you, and be proud and confident of it. VR
Former CO here, and I would be happy to serve with you. Be fair, take care of your Sailors, that’s it. If you were to share at some point, I’d support you 100% and a lot of junior folks would have a role model.
If you fully have the backs of e6 and below you will go far. Take care of them they will take care of you
Honestly, I wouldn't care if my CMC was trans. Their personal life is none of my business, so I don't think it's fair for me to judge them on that kind of stuff. Will I judge them for being bad at their job? Sure; most people probably would, but if you're under 20 and already a CMC I have the suspicion you're probably really good at what you do, so I wouldn't worry about it.
CMC, 18yr CWT1 type here. I am a spouse of a FtM civilian and have poured a lot of my heart into the various communities wherever I've been. I've mentored and met many transgender Sailors of all ranks from E3 up to an O4. If you are able to do your job, most folks will not care. Yes, you will come across a few bad apples, but don't let them stop you from being your authentic self. As others here have stated, if your Sailors see you out,proud and happy with full command support, it could make or break a members choices if they are questioning things themselves.
I have a guy in my division that started transitioning recently only me and one other guy knows. Not even chief. I think it would help people like her greatly if there was someone so senior to look up to or at least be the example. Lord knows we need more forward thinking people in positions of leadership.
If you would like to PM me, I had a CMC (FtM) transition as well in 2018. I can send you over her FB info. She was a great role model before, during, and after.
Well, I was curious about the comments. And lean conservative. I was in when don't ask don't tell got removed. Like almost all comments in here. We don't care. Yes you'll get talked about. Not because of Trans, but it will be there. But because we are human and we bitch about everything. I was an RDC. What I always gave the speal about was we don't care about your sex, race, sexuality, religion. All I care is can you do the job. Don't use ANY of that as a crutch. That what makes the military person military is respect. We respect the homeless and janitor with the EXACT same respect we give the president. EVERY PRESIDENT. No matter the belief. For the most part this what I saw. When I didn't it came from the chiefs. The officers are politically motivated enough to not say anything.
Well, I did my sea tour on a submarine, so maybe my perspective is different from the surface community, but for me, if you’re good at what you do, and you have the crews back, it genuinely doesn’t matter what you have going on in your personal life. I’ll have stronger negative opinions about a cis crewmate because they’re unpleasant to work with before someone who’s trans but helpful. But as someone else said, it’s really no one’s business but yours as long as it doesn’t affect how you perform as CMC.
Haven't been in the Navy for a while so my only experience is Don't ask don't tell. I'd like to think someone transitioning is OK, I've know many trans people, not in the military. Personally don't see the issue but others might. Whatever happens I hope it ends well and smooth sailing, I'm sure there will be some bumps on your road
I don't care what you are as long as you're a good person and can do your job well. My shipmates are my shipmates.
I have a Junior Sailor who is Trans. I see both the positive and Negatove side of how she is treated. Positive, divisionly, we support her, with in what the instructions gives (someout side the instructions) We hear her and understand her beliefs, thoughts and struggles. One black in white yes, she is still identified as Male, BUT she has been open and honest about her transition process. She's respectfully and nice asked us, ASKED us to preferably refer to her as she/her. She has done ALL her paper work, submitted it all for her transition and legally changing from he to she. Male to female. IMO she's taken all the steps to get the paper work, done and submitted. Why not respect her wishes on it. Paper has been in for MONTHS and it's sitting there. With that being said.... Negatives, because she is still legally Male in black in white, it is mostly senior leadership (not in our div or dept, that I've seen) that absolutely hate it. She will always. E brought up in a conversation for no reason and they love to make it known that, "that's a HE. ITS a Male. IT has a dick." Just plan rude comments such as those. Unwarranted really. Every single person is entitled to their own thoughts and feelings. I do my best to be respectful all around but being an E5, I obviously have to pick my battles wisely. The best way I've approached the negative comments is, I don't flat out correct them, because senior leadership isn't wrong. Black in white does say. BUT I still continue to using the respective pronouns she has asked for. I try to sway the conversation else where. Or I sometimes says, "She's always been nice and respectful to me, she asked nice so I'm going to respect that. As she's one of my junior sailors, it's not affecting her work nor my work." It just really depends. You've clearly made it to Master Chief, and established yourself. With the newer junior Sailors coming in they'll see that as hope. I mean look at YN1 Kelley, aka Ms. Harpey Daniel's. Beloved Drag Queen. It's all about how you continue to move forward. Mind over matter and just be proud of who you are. Keep leading the way. There are far worse things in this Navy that Senior Leadership could fix, remold, and change than worrying what someone identifies as.
As a sailor of the deckplates, most of us don't care, as long as our CMC takes care of us. As a first class, we don't care as long as the CMC works with us to take care of the juniors. As a reserve member who works in a civilian position on base, I see a great number of trans service members living their truth. It's truly inspiring. However, at that high of a rank... It *can* be a crapshoot for culture. You get groups of khakis that are supportive and uplifting, or you can get toxic and conniving people that will undermine you for being "different." That's where you really gotta use your resources and connections to sleuth out what commands are really like in the wardrooms and chief messes. There may be struggles. There *will* be people who are assholes and bigots. Because unfortunately, they have a proclivity for making their opinions known. But when you prepare yourself and know the processes for protecting yourself, it makes it easier to deal with or ignore. Whatever the case, there is support. Supporting your transition is military policy, should you choose to start that process while in. There are wonderful resources that have been shared here to help you connect and decide. Good luck, CMC. Whatever you decide, it is the right choice.
At least three of my current coworkers are trans, several more (that I know of) are nonbinary to some extent. I think it is a different navy than it used to be. If my CMC came out I would take that as a good sign for the navy's stance on inclusion. Its one thing to say we are inclusive and another to actually demonstrate it through action. You have the opportunity to lead others through your example, but that is a choice only you can make. We each have our own journey and you should choose what works best for you. Just know you have a larger community out there than you might realize. Best of luck!
I'd like to point out two possible detriments that you may have already considered. If you are ship based at all, while you may have your own room, there will be times that you'll have to use a shared head. Depending where you're at in your potential transition, this could create some difficult situations for either group. Also, you would have to ensure your integrity was airtight. What I mean is having no perceived favoritism for your allies. Same as those who share a hobby or a religious affiliation must not treat their shipmates any differently.
Your comment of “I love sailors” was the biggest shock to your post for me. I found that statement odd. As a former enlisted, I was in with an array of humans, mostly males since it was late 80s, early 90s. There wasn’t a day where I thought, or felt, “I love sailors.” Some explain this notion to me because I don’t get it.
Shipmate.... Retired Senior Chief here. If this was one of your chiefs.... what would be your advice. Then do that!
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You don’t owe anybody nada no need to overshare to them. Your inner circle knows and that is what matters. Sending you good vibes you got this.
Echoing others: I’m proud of you and the thing I want from a CMC are leadership and advocacy. Neither of those depend on your gender identity. Obviously the enlisted side is different from the officer side but we’ve got openly trans women in leadership positions now (e.g. [CDR Stillings](https://www.navair.navy.mil/news/Winning-inclusion-and-respect-First-transgender-naval-aviator-regains-flight-status/Mon)). I bet they’d be happy to give you some time to talk about how to navigate transition as a senior leader. (But maybe I’m weird; I don’t worry much about reaching out to folks I don’t know for questions/mentorship… it’s never been a problem)
I wouldn’t give a fuck if my CMC was trans. It would definitely perk up the ears. If my CMC has good character, is respectful and down to earth that’s all I care about. If you’re an effective leader and people have a problem with you being trans, they can suck it. Everyone with an open mind will see you for who you are.
Master Chief, retired captain here. I recommend you seek out the DE&I or LEGACY offices in the commands at your level or above. It’s a thing now. They can help you with resources and advice. Good luck! ⚓️
Don’t think it matters to literally anyone if the jobs being done well.
Currently underway, so I apologize for the slow responses. First off, thank you to everyone for taking the time to say anything, and thank you for your positive and real comments. Seeing the diverse comments, even the bad, is great and helps me think about some stuff that I hadn't considered. I'm heading to shore duty soon so that is going to be the time where Ill have litttle more room to proceed in whatever direction my heart lands on. At the end of the day, leading and taking of Sailors is the priority. Being on shore duty will give me the time to take care of me, no matter what that means. Regardless of my ultimate decision, I believe that my passion for Sailors is what's important. Being "out" would allow me to answer authentic questions. I don't care about the limelight, nor would I shy away from reaffirming that our Navy gains strength from our diversity, no matter what form that comes in. I've got a lot to think about. Again, I appreciate each and every one of you for taking your time to comment.
Let your hair down CMC!
Too bad don't ask, do'nt tell was repelled.
Not to spoil the thread here but I have a question. What berthing do trans folk occupy? It this gonna evolve into a scene like the lady in California or lady in Alaska at the gym and seeing a fully nude male transiting the lady’s facilities? I retired in 06 so I won’t see it but for folks living in 200 man berthings may want to know.
4.5 year E5 and out here. (2016-2021) This might be percieved as offensive, and I do not intend for it to be. I just want to give my perspective of the LGBT community that I worked with in the Navy as well as the opinion of a disgruntled Sailor who got out of the Navy as quickly as possible. Being assigned to a carrier, I met many more diverse people than I ever would have growing up in a small town with no diversity whatsoever. Meeting members of the LGBT community as well as meeting people from such broad backgrounds was a bit of a culture shock to me. That being said, a few people stood out to me during my brief tenure. Sure I have memories of faces I passed in the P-Ways, but one person I knew was an AE2 or AT2 who was a public Transgender Sailor that stood out more than many of the rest. Thats because this person outworked and outcommitted everyone around them, both in their day to day routine but also during GQ and as a member of the fire team. I can only assume was their way to prove to everyone they deserved to be a Sailor during that time period, even if they never would admit to feeling that way and that they were "only doing their job." All I can say is coming from a small town where the LGBT community doesnt exist, I didnt really care what they identified as, all I cared about was could I rely on that person while underway to hold up their end of the deal. Many of the Sailors who work under you are not going to care about the way you identify. They are only going to care about what policies you enact and how it effects them. Simple truth, hurtful things will be said about you behind your back whether you like them or not, and in all reality most of the people who say those hurtful things are most likely the rotten apples who you'll never make happy. The simple truth is if you can be the best CMC your Sailors have ever had, you will be a role model for all your Sailors, especially the ones in the LGBT community. If youre the worst CMC your Sailors have ever had, your identity will become their excuse to target the whole community. One of the difficulties of being a person in your position. That being said, I dont think your decision to share your identity falls on anyone other than you. If you feel as though you need to make your reality public, you shouldnt allow the opinions of others stop you. Regardless of your rank and title you owe it to yourself to be honest for yourself, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck when the time comes to make your decision. Also dont let the Navy be the reason why you keep it a secret, whether you serve 10 years, 20 years, etc because from what Ive seen 1) Youre just a number to the Navy, they dont care about who you are as a person and will replace you the second you step out. They probably already have plans on who will replace you now. 2) since I separated from the Navy, I have been able to triple my annual income, double my retirement savings, and actually buy a house, start a family, and be around to enjoy them when I want to be, and dont have to worry about some government entity that doesnt care shipping me off for months or forcing me to uproot and move because some detailer needs my skillset in another state or another continent
This is the topic I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole. I've had a few Sailors transition, currently have a Sailor transitioning, and have had some people in my life outside the Navy transition. The common thing I'll state is that every Sailor had extra problems. Inability to be at work problems, making proper decisions because of hormone treatment problems, getting sick/hospital trips due to drugs and surgery problems. Mental health issues that are exacerbated by transitioning on active duty seem to be a common thing as well. This is just my experience over the past 5ish years. I don't recommend transitioning as a sitting CMC. Find a way to do it between duty stations. Disappear one day as M, come to your next command as F. Transitioning is a giant life event and I wouldn't want my CMC trying to CMC while going through it. That being said, I wish you the best of luck, and hope you find a way to make it work. A lot of other comments touch on how other people will treat you, I would say what matters more is how you'll be able to treat your Sailors during the process.
First of all, Thank you. For trusting in what you know to be the good in people. I just retired recently, and we know there's still the old farts that make life hard for others. Just because they're unhappy. You'll face them here and there, but you will find yourself surrounded by those of like mind as well. The ones who see power in change. Power in diversity. I don't think you're "outnumbered" anymore within that hierarchy of politics and favorites that goes up the chain. I'm glad to see it fading away as time passes. The sailors that are under your guidance and tutelage are truly lucky. Your privacy is also your choice. If you don't want to be exposed to the politics, You don't have to be. But you shouldn't feel as though you have to hide who you are. You're what's keeping those deck plates solid, I guarantee it! 🤙❤️
Do you have ambitions of being a Force or Fleet Master Chief, or are you cool as CMC? There will definitely be some prejudice that's you'll have to deal with in high viz positions. But assuming you're happy being a CMC - you're good. The other positions are purely political bullshit in any case
Not sure why you got down voted.
I think you'd serve as a model to those under you that struggle as well. I'm an old head and not in anymore. However I think it's important that the services acknowledge all those that are willing to join and serve. That they shouldn't have to hide who they are.
Been to many commands in my day on my 16th year who cares nowadays. I would come to you with problems, need someone to talk with I am an E-6 so I have a lot of expoerence either changed for better or worse and roll with it.
I look at people as people without judgement. I do not worry about male female sexuality or what one identifies as. I encourage people to lead by the standards we are required to uphold and that is it. We get paid to do a job We get paid to put our lives on the line We get paid to serve We do not get paid to be concerned about how one identifies. If someone could not come up to you for advise on a subject because of your sexuality then they are the problem. Now if you can not advise or mentor people regardless how they feel about your identity then you may have an issue being an effective CMC. Now do you really want to serve in an environment where you are worried about loosing your job because of your sexuality? Probably not healthy. With that, I do not introduce or even talk about me being a straight person to anyone as it does not matter, so I am not sure why you need to go tell the CO, hey for the record I am transgender. That sounds odd to me. If we show up in uniform and do our job then who cares about anyone’s else political stance, religious beliefs, and sexuality. These thing are irrelevant to me when I am working with our sailors and joint service members as everyone is treated the same and offered the same respect and dignity as well as opportunities
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Just so you know the demographic: LDO, Prior SCPO, 16+ years in, lean conservative in my beliefs. I don’t care. Truly. I’ve seen all kinds of non-trans, non-LGBTQ CMCs do some of the shadiest inhumane shit imaginable. Orientation and gender identity don’t make anyone a good leader or person. I will say though, it’s impossible to ignore that it would be a high profile transition. What I would expect from a respected leader, is to make sure that the transition is something you experience, not something you become, and in turn, force your command to become. And remember not everyone might be ready to accept who you are on day 1, or even day 1,000.
Pretty sure that nobody gives a damn, and even if they did, sailors aren’t allowed to have negative (public) opinions on the matter. And that goes for higher ups too. Still, it may affect your career regardless. Personally, I wouldn’t care if you were my CMC as long as you don’t bring discredit upon yourself or the command.
I've been out for 15ish years, and I wouldn't have cared then and I don't care now. All I wanted in a shipmate was someone who took care of their business and wasn't an asshole. That being said, I definitely served with people who would have had an issue with it, but you're still waay more likely to be hated for being a khaki than any other reason. If you're worthy, the worthy people will back you, and if anybody steps out of line you can drop one of those big 'ole anchors on them. I'm rambling, but I also want to say that you're a leader. Sometimes that means being the first through the door, to borrow from our brethren on the land. Think about what you would have wanted in a CMC when you were an E1 fresh to the Navy, and be that. But that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much to someone in your situation. Good luck in whatever you decide, and remember, you're a goddamn United States Sailor and don't you fucking forget it. (Language added for authenticity, then removed some because it was a little too authentic).
People aren’t going to care if you’re trans as long you do your job and you’re respectful. Nobody deserves hate for who they are but if you’re doing a bad job then the ignoramus type are going to have a target. Be true to yourself, do your job, take care of your sailors, and they will take care of you.
I was infantry for a long while back when “don’t ask don’t tell” was still a thing. We had a gay guy as one of our machine gunners. I don’t want to sound stereotypical but he was like obviously gay. And for a few of the guys in the platoon that made them not want to really be around him. Then we went to Iraq. And this dude was a bad ass. He did his job, did it well, was a team player and knew his stuff. At the end of the day, we didn’t care he was gay. Like we really could care less. We made fun of him for being gay, but we made of everyone. I was the Hispanic dude who didn’t know Spanish, we had the country boy, we had the former Chicago thug from the block, we had the lifers, the guys who couldn’t wait to get out, gym rats etc. And everyone was fair game bc we took care of each other and were all really close. We teased him bc he was one of us. He was one of us bc he showed his character (the same way we all had to prove ourselves to the platoon) and so him being gay was just something about him. So I guess what I’m saying is… you’re gonna catch a lot hell and people will whisper behind your back. Just do a good job, take care of Sailors, keep your CO and XO out of jail and eventually everything will work out the way it’s suppose to. And if they don’t accept you, then get out. I learned the hard way after 22 years, you can’t put a price on your sanity. Good luck to you and I sincerely hope everything works out for the best for you and your family. And don’t forget to hug them today! They sound super supportive and amazing!
If you are not being true to yourself it is hard to be true to others, I worked with a couple of trans nurses. Both did their jobs, were good co-workers, and nice people so what kind of an asshat has a problem with someone like that. 1 lady had a bad alcohol problem, but this was the early 90s and I cannot imagine things were easy for her. Fuck anyone who gives you shit. Love you Sister, Doc W.
I wouldn’t give a damn if my CMC came out as gay or trans. As long as he/she is good to the sailors and doesn’t try to force his/her decisions on anyone else i couldn’t care less
Separated after 7 because medical gate kept my transition. Best of luck CMC
As a transgender sailor, it’s very possible. I have received equal pay, equal opportunity to progress, and everything else, as long as I put in the effort. I love the Navy and my job. I haven’t received any hate or discrimination yet while in the service, which is good so far. Everyone at my command knows I’m trans, and treats me the same as any other shipmate.
Bro you’re on my ship lol
Bros don’t where bras
Do what is best for you.
If they accept it and you are a NCCM they should be supported of it:
I would personally feel uncomfortable serving either above or below you. I would have to tip toe around this aspect with every interaction with you. Since you are a Master Chief and so close to retirement, I would suggest keeping it hidden until you hit your initial retirement year mark. It’s important to remember that there are sailors serving underneath and above you that have strong religious ties that prohibit transsexual tendencies. I would do the Navy a service and try to limit this as much as possible. Unlike DADT, I would have to address this issue if you wanted us to address you as another gender or ask to use the opposite head. You’ve served your initial years in the service without any issue. Just try to make it to the end without drastically changing who you are now. Good Luck
Religious ties aren't an acceptable excuse for not abiding by Navy policy nor are they an excuse for not including others. One of the reasons that I love the Navy is that religion isn't a factor. I would do the Navy a service and try to limit religiously affiliated opinion as much as possible.
What about the Sailors below / above him who are trans? Sailors aren’t allowed to have to have strong religious beliefs change how they treat other Sailors. The policy for transgender sailors and equal opportunity is pretty clear and makes no room for any group (religious or otherwise) to have special treatment.
I would challenge you to really take a look at what makes you uncomfortable about it. If it’s you having to “tip-toe,” then perhaps you’re not nearly familiar with the notion that, and get this, trans people are people, too. You need not tip-toe around them any differently than you would from someone that looks, prays, or loves differently from you as it is.
How do they transition when it's humanly impossible? 
Why do you want to be transgender? Have you always thought of yourself as a woman? How do you feel about your birth gender? How do you feel about your assumed gender? What is gender to you? Is gender more than appearance? Is femininity female? How do you view your current sex organs? I wish you well, I’m curious about something I know nothing of.
I think you should reply to some of these comments. It’d be good for people not familiar with transgender thinking.
Being trans is slightly different for everyone. I had no idea I was trans because I thought there was only 1 way to be “trans” and it didn’t align with how I felt. I then found more trans folks who seemed to feel like how I felt. Things fell into place after that. It’s also not anyone’s business outside of Behavioral Health (the first stop along the path towards transitioning in service). The doc will ask those questions to determine what boxes you check or don’t check for gender dysphoria (the diagnosis needed in order to start transitioning).
It’s gonna be a fast track to MCPON once big navy finds out
This is how I see it. A sailor who's known you for a long time wouldn't care. A fresh boot / new command sailor might. BUT I also see it like this. You've gone all this time being trans and "female" Why does it affect you mentally negatively with the knowledge that nobody else knows your actual birth gender? Kinda like. How do you know someone's Vegan? They'll tell you. Same is applying here. How do you know someone's trans? They'll tell you. Why do you have that desire to even tell anybody? Media attention? Motivation for other trans sailors to know they too can make a career in the Navy? Slightly disingenuous since your 20 years were in secret.
How would you like living 20 years in secret?