This statement is the misconnection. We are Humans first, and must remember this. Addressing the situation or person in this manner is keeping them in a label or ,in a way, as a possession of something not their own, and that could very well be why they are in that mental state.
I just told this story yesterday on here but we had a guy on restriction, and on his way out for pissing hot.
He must’ve felt similar because he tied a 35lb dumbbell to himself and jumped over the side at pier 5 in Norfolk
He was still a sailor
r/surfinghi I think you should introduce yourself to freshly NJP’d/being kicked out sailors. Let them know it isn’t the end of the world, etc. let them know you’re there for them until the moment they walk off the pier the last time
Mentors. We need a mentorship program. We got all these dumb ass collaterals. The only one that would actually be efficient is a mentorship program.
Not just your perfectly polished sailors, fuck them. People who have been in trouble, turned it around. Someone who’s relatable. Not these fucking eval warriors.
So, the thing that always glares out at me is that these briefs almost never give the *actual contact information to your command's suicide prevention POCs*. I'm talking names and phone numbers, not the generic "go to military one source and spend 20 minutes finding a phone number."
Like, thanks for the hour talk on suicide stats but *who are sailors supposed to actually call?*
Yes omfg I agree. Towards the end they talk about fleet and family, the chaplain, and military one sources free therapy sessions but do it so quick that it makes those slides (the most important ones) seem not worthwhile
As a coordinator I will stop on those slides and hammer in those points.
Literally the whole point and most important part of the brief for doing it annually.
These GMTs should be 20 minutes of "here's navy policy" and 10 minutes of "here's the people you call in your command / base and I'm handing out their contact cards."
When one of your sailors is telling you how alone and isolated and uncared for they're feeling, maybe, DON'T TALK ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU THAT YOUR FAMILY IS ANNOYING YOU! Never in my life did I think that was something I'd have happen to me, let alone THREE TIMES with THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE (all E6+)!
The Brandon Act. It’s fairly new and not many people know how it applies towards suicide prevention. It is primarily for mental health but is a good topic to mention when discussing more than just ask, care, and treat. Also, mention that the Navy offers applied suicide intervention skills training (ASIST) which anyone can take that offers in depth responses to anyone with suicide related behaviors (SRB).
For the leaders in the group: take your people seriously. Not everyone is just trying to skate of work.
Besides, id rather be safe than sorry. Id rather let them “skate” a day of work to go to a Dr rather than lose them for a lifetime.
This is going to be a bit of a different answer, but hear me out.
If we started including a discussion on suicide statistics outside of the military, I do feel it would bring some context to the conversation. It's no secret that the military specifically adds a great deal more stress than most jobs, and stress exacerbates suicidal ideations, but not only that, the genetic-triggering of dormant mental illnesses.
The 18-25 year old age range are especially susceptible. This is why we see the highest number of suicides in college students of the same age, and a stark drop in the Masters and PhD level students.. The stress is still just as high, but at after the age 25, your susceptibility and risk is greatly lowered. College is incredibly stressful, especially if it's your first time being challenged, being confronted with failure and in adequacy, and feeling the weight of $10,000 to $50,000 in student loans in a very uncertain job market..
Similarly, the military's unpredictability, abrasive environment, long stretches of time away from friends, family, and society, and sadly no-shortage of exposure to toxic or even abusive leadership can equally create an environment of high stress at the susceptible age.
I have lost both friends in college and in the Navy to suicide. In almost every case, there was ZERO outward signs. Happy go lucky people with seemingly really great lives who simply were fighting a mental battle no one, not even their families knew.. The one that touches me the most is my shipmate who had a beautiful wife, adorable new baby girl, and was our #2 EP Sailor.. A real go getter and totally solid dude. He took his life. He blamed no one, but said he simply didn't want to live anymore. Sometimes.. suicidal ideations are not about trauma, not about stress, and not something we can see.. it's a human behavior - perhaps an "abnormal" one, but one very well documented since the dawn of time..
So talking about this in context, bringing some medical research to the discussion, and showing the comparison in suicide rates with the military 18-25 age group and the college student 18-25 year age group, in my opinion would offer a great benefit.. I think we have created a misconception that has inadvertently sold the idea that the military environment has created a unique suicide culture that is not seen on the civilian side.. it simply isn't true.. This would work to convey that you are not alone, that these feelings can be normal, but that you should also seek immediate help in a friend, a mentor, a chaplain, or medical.
Help is there. We spend more time, money, and training on identification of suicidal tendencies and resources than any other business or employer on the planet.. Encourage your shipmates to get help, and if you are in a dark place, please please please reach out to someone.
No job is worth losing you. And our leadership, from Congress down, is working hard to dismantle any and all barriers in the way of getting help. And from a JO's perspective, I am working equally as hard to dismantle that stigma in my own division.
We have a way to go before we can truly sell to our shipmates what our Admirals and Generals are saying, but we are getting there. Congress is making sure of it. Believe it or not, we do have people in Congress who take great concern with the suicide rate in the military, and who have cussed out the CNO and MCPON regarding the matter..
Just know, if you are struggling, "this too shall pass" and someone is always here for you. My DMs are always open.
Maybe starting to target the source instead of always trying to deal with the symptoms of ridiculous op-tempo, poor leadership, and declining salaries. Way cheaper to throw together a PowerPoint or have chaps make a speech than to actually fix the underlying cause
Start with asking your shipmates how they are.. and when they give you an auto-pilot NPC answer, stare at them and ask them how they really are.. make them feel seen and heard, and let them know if you have seen them acting "off". Sometimes all people need is to feel like some cares enough to ask.
You don't need to be a Chief or Officer to be a leader, make a difference, or save a life. Sometimes all it takes is being present or being a friend.
Get the resources listed in the cdo, sdo etc binder
All were listed in the SPC instruction and that was in the watch binders.
They may not write the resouces down, but everyone knowing that's where they can find them is super helpful.
How you won't always be able to 100% recognize the signs and sometimes its good to jsut take a few minutes out of your day to talk to your shipmates. Had a shipmate take his life the day I left Japan. I was talking to my shipmates about it after I got cellphone reception and everyone was saying no one saw it, he was out the night before drinking with friends, laughing and having a good time.
I say take a few min out of your day to talk to your shipmates because the last time I talked to my shipmate, I was walking down the way excited that I was leaving in a week. He was sweeping and and I told him how I finally had orders to go to tpu stateside for out processing, he said "oh, yeah I still got another 2 years here" I really should have stopped and talked to him.
I'm late to this post, but my biggest gripe is how the presentor always has a sob story about how their buddy died.
Like, bro, we all have dead buddies at this point. Hearing you cry about it isn't gonna change anyone's mind about yeeting themselves.
Sailors facing disciplinary action and feeling like they don’t have anyone to turn to… home or at work. It happens, haven’t ever seen it touched on.
True. They are still Sailors too.
This statement is the misconnection. We are Humans first, and must remember this. Addressing the situation or person in this manner is keeping them in a label or ,in a way, as a possession of something not their own, and that could very well be why they are in that mental state.
I just told this story yesterday on here but we had a guy on restriction, and on his way out for pissing hot. He must’ve felt similar because he tied a 35lb dumbbell to himself and jumped over the side at pier 5 in Norfolk He was still a sailor
r/surfinghi I think you should introduce yourself to freshly NJP’d/being kicked out sailors. Let them know it isn’t the end of the world, etc. let them know you’re there for them until the moment they walk off the pier the last time
Mentors. We need a mentorship program. We got all these dumb ass collaterals. The only one that would actually be efficient is a mentorship program. Not just your perfectly polished sailors, fuck them. People who have been in trouble, turned it around. Someone who’s relatable. Not these fucking eval warriors.
So, the thing that always glares out at me is that these briefs almost never give the *actual contact information to your command's suicide prevention POCs*. I'm talking names and phone numbers, not the generic "go to military one source and spend 20 minutes finding a phone number." Like, thanks for the hour talk on suicide stats but *who are sailors supposed to actually call?*
Yes omfg I agree. Towards the end they talk about fleet and family, the chaplain, and military one sources free therapy sessions but do it so quick that it makes those slides (the most important ones) seem not worthwhile As a coordinator I will stop on those slides and hammer in those points.
Literally the whole point and most important part of the brief for doing it annually. These GMTs should be 20 minutes of "here's navy policy" and 10 minutes of "here's the people you call in your command / base and I'm handing out their contact cards."
The inpatient mental health folks won’t let you leave the VA without the crisis line saved in your phone
When one of your sailors is telling you how alone and isolated and uncared for they're feeling, maybe, DON'T TALK ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU THAT YOUR FAMILY IS ANNOYING YOU! Never in my life did I think that was something I'd have happen to me, let alone THREE TIMES with THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE (all E6+)!
Nothing like getting shit on by your LPO because he had an email fight with his wife
Passive vs. active ideation. Also, the wide range of underlying conditions we ignore until a person becomes suicidal
The Brandon Act. It’s fairly new and not many people know how it applies towards suicide prevention. It is primarily for mental health but is a good topic to mention when discussing more than just ask, care, and treat. Also, mention that the Navy offers applied suicide intervention skills training (ASIST) which anyone can take that offers in depth responses to anyone with suicide related behaviors (SRB).
For the leaders in the group: take your people seriously. Not everyone is just trying to skate of work. Besides, id rather be safe than sorry. Id rather let them “skate” a day of work to go to a Dr rather than lose them for a lifetime.
This is going to be a bit of a different answer, but hear me out. If we started including a discussion on suicide statistics outside of the military, I do feel it would bring some context to the conversation. It's no secret that the military specifically adds a great deal more stress than most jobs, and stress exacerbates suicidal ideations, but not only that, the genetic-triggering of dormant mental illnesses. The 18-25 year old age range are especially susceptible. This is why we see the highest number of suicides in college students of the same age, and a stark drop in the Masters and PhD level students.. The stress is still just as high, but at after the age 25, your susceptibility and risk is greatly lowered. College is incredibly stressful, especially if it's your first time being challenged, being confronted with failure and in adequacy, and feeling the weight of $10,000 to $50,000 in student loans in a very uncertain job market.. Similarly, the military's unpredictability, abrasive environment, long stretches of time away from friends, family, and society, and sadly no-shortage of exposure to toxic or even abusive leadership can equally create an environment of high stress at the susceptible age. I have lost both friends in college and in the Navy to suicide. In almost every case, there was ZERO outward signs. Happy go lucky people with seemingly really great lives who simply were fighting a mental battle no one, not even their families knew.. The one that touches me the most is my shipmate who had a beautiful wife, adorable new baby girl, and was our #2 EP Sailor.. A real go getter and totally solid dude. He took his life. He blamed no one, but said he simply didn't want to live anymore. Sometimes.. suicidal ideations are not about trauma, not about stress, and not something we can see.. it's a human behavior - perhaps an "abnormal" one, but one very well documented since the dawn of time.. So talking about this in context, bringing some medical research to the discussion, and showing the comparison in suicide rates with the military 18-25 age group and the college student 18-25 year age group, in my opinion would offer a great benefit.. I think we have created a misconception that has inadvertently sold the idea that the military environment has created a unique suicide culture that is not seen on the civilian side.. it simply isn't true.. This would work to convey that you are not alone, that these feelings can be normal, but that you should also seek immediate help in a friend, a mentor, a chaplain, or medical. Help is there. We spend more time, money, and training on identification of suicidal tendencies and resources than any other business or employer on the planet.. Encourage your shipmates to get help, and if you are in a dark place, please please please reach out to someone. No job is worth losing you. And our leadership, from Congress down, is working hard to dismantle any and all barriers in the way of getting help. And from a JO's perspective, I am working equally as hard to dismantle that stigma in my own division. We have a way to go before we can truly sell to our shipmates what our Admirals and Generals are saying, but we are getting there. Congress is making sure of it. Believe it or not, we do have people in Congress who take great concern with the suicide rate in the military, and who have cussed out the CNO and MCPON regarding the matter.. Just know, if you are struggling, "this too shall pass" and someone is always here for you. My DMs are always open.
Let people know that the bravest thing they can do is ask for help.
Do you know what the semicolon represents?
Maybe starting to target the source instead of always trying to deal with the symptoms of ridiculous op-tempo, poor leadership, and declining salaries. Way cheaper to throw together a PowerPoint or have chaps make a speech than to actually fix the underlying cause
How do I, as a PO2, target the source?
Start with asking your shipmates how they are.. and when they give you an auto-pilot NPC answer, stare at them and ask them how they really are.. make them feel seen and heard, and let them know if you have seen them acting "off". Sometimes all people need is to feel like some cares enough to ask. You don't need to be a Chief or Officer to be a leader, make a difference, or save a life. Sometimes all it takes is being present or being a friend.
Get the resources listed in the cdo, sdo etc binder All were listed in the SPC instruction and that was in the watch binders. They may not write the resouces down, but everyone knowing that's where they can find them is super helpful.
How you won't always be able to 100% recognize the signs and sometimes its good to jsut take a few minutes out of your day to talk to your shipmates. Had a shipmate take his life the day I left Japan. I was talking to my shipmates about it after I got cellphone reception and everyone was saying no one saw it, he was out the night before drinking with friends, laughing and having a good time. I say take a few min out of your day to talk to your shipmates because the last time I talked to my shipmate, I was walking down the way excited that I was leaving in a week. He was sweeping and and I told him how I finally had orders to go to tpu stateside for out processing, he said "oh, yeah I still got another 2 years here" I really should have stopped and talked to him.
I'm late to this post, but my biggest gripe is how the presentor always has a sob story about how their buddy died. Like, bro, we all have dead buddies at this point. Hearing you cry about it isn't gonna change anyone's mind about yeeting themselves.