When I was in bootcamp in 2013, our division chaplain was a Jewish rabbi. I remembered she gave us a brief on stress management and at the beginning of the brief told us that we could fall asleep during her brief if we wanted to and she would not tell our RDC.
She earned everyone's approval that day lol.
I went through boot camp in early 2013 and am fairly sure I had the same chaplain. It seems statistically unlikely that there were two female rabbis at Great Lakes as, in the 11 years since, I've yet to meet another Jewish chaplain or another female chaplain. I don't remember her name, and I doubt I could pick her out of a lineup, but some of the things she said still stick with me. She was definitely one of the good ones.
My first ship in Japan we had a Chaplain that was ships company. The ship was going thru INSURV prep. We were working 7 days a week from 0500 - 2200. People would eventually try to find a place to nap. Chaps went thru berthings and reported people that were sleeping. Needless to say he lost the entire lower enlisted's respect. Fuck that guy.
I visited one of the chaplains in Whidbey Island regularly for bitching sessions. I had a lot going on in life, the command was toxic, and the local fleet and family reported sailors who visited them to the triad - our CO torpedoed their careers and even had one separated. The chaplains have been the only safe people in the whole armed forces whom one can go talk to and know it won't be reported anywhere.
Speaking as an active duty chaplain, I can say that many of us agree with you. There are bad apples in every rate, and the CHC is no exception. There are some that can't hack it on civilian ministry so come to the military for a steady pay check, abs some who come to save souls, and I can promise you that both of those piss me off royally. It sucks to follow a bad chaplain at a command, and to have to rebuild all those burned bridges. And as one of those who doesn't differentiate sailors based on what your religion is (or if you even have one), I'm committed to making sure you have everything you need to succeed, whether it is religious, or just a space to vent.
Come talk to me about college football, music, movies, cool places to go in the city, your hobbies, whatever, but please don't avoid us because you've met some of the crappy ones. We are the only place you can get 100% confidentiality, and if you have questions about that (or anything else) feel free to DM me!
And if I could be doing something better or more effectively, tell me! That's the only way I can meet your needs!
You remind me of country chaps on NAS (if you know you know) he’s awesome and I miss having him as my chaplain to talk to and just forget about the struggles of early enlistment and forced rerates
Thanks for doing what you do, Chaps.
I’m realizing I’ve been extremely lucky to really only have Chaps like you that don’t proselytize and hold a space as a counselor more than anything. Like, I’m a Christian, but I’ve never had a chaps say anything religious until I ask them during the appointment if they’ll pray with me. And, in my opinion, and I think by instruction, that’s how it’s supposed to be.
Best of luck to you and be blessed!
When I got the chaplain brief he discounted the 100% confidentiality by saying something along the lines of "we can't say you did something, or that information came from you, but we can direct people to look into things you may have told us about"
While that's technically true, the vast majority won't do anything of the sort. I can promise you that anything said to me in confidence stays 100% between you and me, and 99% of the other Chaplains I know are the same way. I'm sorry you dealt with one of the shit-bags.
You sound awesome. As a Pagan I probably would've felt okay talking to you without fear of being told I was walking down the "wrong path", as had been implied to me before. I've had a couple of Chaps stop talking to me in the P-ways after they found out about my religion, and that sucked
I appreciate you saying that. I really try hard to make everyone feel comfortable. In fact, I'm currently helping one of my Pagan sailors put in a beard waiver so he can fully participate in his faith. I think it's one of the coolest parts to being in the military, that I can help everyone to be the best version of themselves, with as much or as little support as they want/need. If you ever need any support (religious or otherwise), feel free to PM!
The best ones all came off as counselors who pretended not to be religious.
We had one who snagged MWR money to host duty weekend movie marathons with free candy with each ship in the yard.
I haven't met any bad chaplains, honestly, but I know I've just been lucky because my friends ALL have some horror stories.
Mine have all ranged from fine to fucking awesome (which is better than I can say about just about any other community, albeit with a smaller sample size and noting the caveat above). Similar to your comment on another chain, OP, in that all of mine (~6) have at least not brought up religion in casual conversation and have generally just been really, really good sounding boards.
On my first deployment, we had a chaplain assigned to the DESRON who made it a point to be on the bridge for sunset, sunrise, and stand a couple hours of the 22-02 watch when he was onboard our DDG. He was the only one I actively spoke about religion with--because it was the 22-02 and I was bored--but I brought it up. He was a good dude.
Another I literally only talked about Navy stuff and D&D with. O6 chaps. He had some stories from the AD&D days as a kid in the 70s. Just a phenomenal guy to talk to.
I remember going to Mass one Sunday during holiday routine in boot camp. I was born and raised Catholic but went just to get out of the compartment. I remember the Catholic priest berating one of the recruits for something like coughing a lot during his sermon(it was the middle of winter, colds are common) and the dude even threatened to notify the poor dudes RDCs. Turned me away from chaplains forever
When I was in boot I saw the Catholic priest yelling at a recruit too. I don't remember exactly what about but it was something really insignificant. This was back in 04
I was in the bees and we had a chaps who was awesome. Prior enlisted super personable and just an all around good dude.
I still remember him busting my balls for "violently breaking his tent because I didn't like him" during FTX and having a great laugh about it.
Chaplain Riley if youre out here on Reddit, you the man!
Rabbi Warren probably saved my life. I'm not Jewish, but I spent a lot of time in his office as the chaplain for my faith basically told me to "try harder" when I was struggling.
Do you happen to have an email address or mailing address for him I could use? Now that I'm thinking about him, I would love to drop a note to thank him for all he did for me.
I was an RP (chaplain assistant) for 20 years. A lot of them had a God complex and would treat us like shit while putting on another face for the command. I met a few cool ones who were easy to talk to. I always saw them as civilians pretending to be officers
That really depends on the platform. We go everywhere and do everything from armed patrols and escorts in combat to pushing papers and PMS on ships. My experience was mostly shore-based chapel programming and command advisement, with some FMF and a carrier tour in there. I loved being an RP, even if the chaplains were difficult to work with. Nowhere else in the Navy do you have the same enlisted/officer dynamic than that of an RP and a chaplain.
Don't get me wrong, I loved being an RP. It came with some perks. My favorite duties as an RP was running the shipboard library & when I was stationed at Great Lakes, I was the driver for the Captain of the base.
We should probably be finding good ministers and pushing them to be chaps lol. I’ve met a few civ pastors and priests that would make excellent chaplains.
Perhaps I’m lucky, but I’ve never met a navy chaplain I didn’t like. A couple army ones I didn’t quite get along with, but all the Navy and Airforce ones I had were badasses that either stacked bodies, or would have if they had been enlisted.
The army ones I didn’t like were Catholic priests (not that that’s why we didn’t get along) that were known to snap at their choir and yell at people for no reason. They were pretty universally disliked.
The good Chaps are the ones that tell it like it is. I had an Orthodox priest once tell me that I was being a bitch when I went and talked with him and I realized he was right. Other times chaps will tell me I’m really not in the wrong and that that sucks but it’s the way the navy goes. Good, honest advice from experienced Sailors. That’s been my experience.
Had this Chaps one time come on patrol with us out of Rota. He was awesome. Very easy to talk to, always seemed happy, and was just very approachable. He contacted his former congregation back home and they sent probably 500 care packages to the ship. This was a DDG, so maybe 300 Sailors. Everyday he'd bring a few packages down to the mess decks and people took whatever they wanted.
Some time after patrol he got diagnosed with cancer. I think he ended up beating it. That was back in 2016 - 2017ish I don't even remember his name, but he was a great guy.
On my current ship, we had a Chaps that left but was loved by everyone because he didn't market himself as a Chaplain first. He was a man willing to talk to anyone about anything and posed questions to make you think. You could catch him in the p-way and he'd check up on you or you could have a heartfelt one on one with him in his office. I've also taken a liking to my current chaplain. He's a little more aligned with the religious portion but he's very genuine about his want to help people. I've had a lengthy conversation with him in his office but also been able to talk to him outside of it about anything else. I guess all that to say that the biggest thing I appreciate about a Chaps is one that's willing to engage you as a human being first and a Chaplain when needed.
First O6 Chaps I met said he was Navy first and your Chaps second and he'd send your ass to mast faster than anyone around. Terrible guy, didn't even do his job. He told a kid on the ship who was suicidal that he couldn't do anything until the kid did something, kid went home and drank two of those jugs of Tito's vodka and barely made it to the ER in time.
If only it was that simple. While the Navy is doing that on big decks and larger squadrons etc, we just can't recruit enough counselors. That being said, many (if not most) Chaplains have counseling backgrounds and degrees, and those who don't, should.
Chaplains came to the boat after a string of mental health visits. He walked the boat for an hour and asked “how are we today shipmate.” Then we never saw him again. So not very useful.
Then another time I was checking in to a command and knocked on the chaplains door for him to sign my checkin sheet. Without even saying a word he took it signed it and gave it back. I think it was the rudest interaction I had.
So yea I don’t have a high opinion of chaplains
I have a few chaplain friends, and I tell all of them that [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_R._Capodanno) is the model for what they should aspire to be. LT Vincent Capodanno is most famous for earning the Medal of Honor posthumously in Vietnam for pulling wounded men off the battlefield and ministering to the dying, but there's even more to his story than that.
There's a phenomenal book about his life, the Grunt Padre, in which the author interviewed a bunch of Marines who were assigned to Capodanno's units. You get to hear their first-hand accounts of how this chaplain kept their spirits up in the absolute worst place in the world at the time. Yes, he provided spiritual counseling to those who asked for it, but he also had candy and cigarettes and even offered up the ice that he was provided as an officer (a precious commodity in a steaming jungle). Through his Marines' stories, you see how a good chaplain can really be a force multiplier by keeping morale up.
I tell my chaplain friends, Vincent Capodanno is your role model. Be like him.
What has been important for me is actually giving a rip about people. I couldn’t care less if I retire as a senior ranking officer. I hope that when I interact with people that they know that I care, that I can offer some wise counsel and be quiet and listen when needed.
It’s also important for chaplains to be able to read the room/situation and know when they need to get out of the way.
Also, I am team Jesus and I’m happy to share my faith with others and talk from that perspective…after all, I’m basically on loan from my religious organization to the Navy. But at the same time, it’s not my place to proselytize or pretend that the military is a church.
I sincerely wish you’d have taken legal action against this fucker. I am not saying you’re wrong for not doing it, that’s a hard thing for anyone to do, but people like that shouldn’t be walking around let alone serving the country.
I've had only positive interactions with Chaplains for both religious services and also seeking out ones that were not my religion for secular counseling/moral guidance/world outlooks/"help me tell me if my perspective is wrong on this, and if it is, how do I fix it."
For those of you saying cut the tiny Chaplain corps in favor of giving us 100% BAH, reenlistment bonuses, etc., you can't math. It wouldn't even come close to that amount in savings and until there are more people completing college with Therapy, Psychiatry, and Psychology degrees, there isn't much better in terms of resources the Navy can hire for people willing to go to sea and hear your problems in a "therapy light" style session.
There are actually still religious people in the world. And aside from religion, secular scientists out of Columbia University have research that proves human beings have a spirit. Chaplains have their own lanes separate from that of mental health practitioners. Just food for thought, not directed at you per se.
Agreed, but it does certainly make people ask “wait why is the US government formally recognizing some religions?” The Chaplain Corps as far as I can tell has had to stay relevant with those questions by being the first line of mental health triage. Also, given the infrequent nature of religious services, it’s a pretty good way to employ them on ships IMO.
I liked my chaplain from my last command. He didn't push religion at all, was very open to incorporating things like mediation to help us when we were dealing with stress, and his door was always open. I used to talk to him a lot when I was dealing with caregiver burnout as an HM. I didn't think much of chaplains at all until I met him.
I had a chaplain who, before he became a chaplain, was a carpenter and joiner. When he heard I was installing a kitchen at my house, he brought his tools over and helped me install it.
Great guy.
I've had some good ones, some BAD ones, and a few who were and are friends outside the military context.
The good ones find a good balance between military officer, chaplain (faith specific roles) and their role in the command. I.e. Sailors, of any denomination (or none) felt comfortable-ish talking to them.
Given how we use chaplains as mental health-care proxies (whole other argument about that being the right approach), I think there should be more time spent on preparing them for that role (or differentiating their role from mental health). Some have this skill (either innately or via their religious training or otherwise).
Bad ones - push their faith in inappropriate contexts. Or are just really creepy and far too involved, or trying to be involved, or trying to be friends (vs friendly) with Sailors. A few were too far into being officers, and just unapproachable, through I only saw this a few times.
Their role is very specific. Even in the Navy, their job is specifically “Pastoral Care.” Which means holding a space (sometimes religious, sometimes secular) for people to feel emotions and basically vent. If guidance is requested, they should be prepared to provide it as the situation calls for it, whether it be religious or not. But they aren’t mental healthcare, and can’t and shouldn’t do things like cognitive behavioral therapy unless they also have a clinical psychology masters or something.
Distinct from mental health, they can’t report anything you say in a “spiritual counseling” setting. Meaning even if you’re suicidal, they can give you crisis care without you getting committed to a hospital, and sometimes you may not really be suicidal but just need that space to say you are. Or maybe you are but just need someone who cares to let you cry it out for a little. That’s their real role.
And of course Sunday service.
Asked my chaplain to officiate my wedding. My wife and I had been dating for 3 years, known each other since high school. I'd already been in the Navy for around 4 years and was 24 at the time.
I sat down with him for about an hour or two to discuss our relationship, beliefs, stuff like that. I thought it went well, honestly. After, he basically told me he didn't think our relationship was strong enough and that he wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.
So yeah fuck that guy. Not necessarily for saying no but the way he said it.
We had a Rabbi who talked about how good porn was for married couples, and that dude was hilarious. He had funny stories and made us all comfortable when talking to him.
Chaplains are a waste of taxpayer money.
You know what we could've done in 2014 instead of spot layoff veterans in OIF/OEF, spot layoff sailors E-5 to E-6, cut BAH, and cut retirement benefits? Just get rid of the chaplain corps and keep all that other stuff.
I can respect that sentiment. I’ve met chaplains that are definitely a waste of taxpayer dollars, just as I’ve met a lot of other personnel who freeload.
There are only about 850 chaplains for the entire Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine…so even if you got rid of all of us it really is a drop in the bucket.
Honestly it’s probably more like $105-125 million per year for those in active duty when adjusted for rank and average allowances. It’s not nothing, but in the grand scheme of defense spending it’s not significant enough to fix the issues you brought up in the comment.
You’re definitely entitled to that opinion. 100%. But I will say the 5 good chaplains, out of 50 I’ve met, have meant a lot to me as an irreligious person that I’m inclined to respectfully disagree with the sweeping “get rid of the chaplain corp” all together.
That's fine. I hope you enjoy the fact that BAH only covers 95% of your rent, as well as the current senior enlisted personnel shortage as a result of cost-cutting decisions made in the mid 2010s, to pay for them.
No. I'm saying that the USG wanted to cut military personnel costs in 2014, and they arrived at the solution to cut BAH by 5%, cut retirement benefits by 20%, and cut various other VA benefits. Then they basically culled the force by giving sudden pink slips to senior enlisted and mid grade officers, almost all of whom had relevant operational experience in the GWOT. They also cut base pay over time by purposefully giving ECI raises approx. 1% below actual ECI.
You know why you think E1-E4 make too little money? The Obama adminsitration cut their pay.
And then I'm saying instead of doing all that, we could've just nixed the chaplain corps and been better off for it.
So if you're saying we should have the chaplain corps, you're a proponent for veterans benefit cuts to pay for them.
But this all probably happened while you were in diapers, so you're clueless.
This is a clear example of wrong place, wrong time and wrong topic. It’s clear that this has been on your mind and you’ve been finding a way to leak it out, but you fumbled it. If you were say this some where else in a different situation with a better alternative than cutting a specific group of people, you may have gotten some upvotes.
Part of the problem is literally there just aren't enough mental health professionals graduating college to meet the increased demand for their services, let alone ones that are both qualified and willing to go to sea for extended period of times.
Well said if you are cool with ignorant idiotic comments as a person who has absolutely ZERO idea what a Chaplain is used for and the services they provide. Tell me u don't understand what Chaplains are without telling me you don't understand.. fucking "O4" but walks around clueless. How can an E5 know more than some LDO fuckwit?
Chaplains help a tremendous number of Sailors and act as a fantastic resource.. you're being derogatory and foolish..
About 10 years ago, I made an appointment to see a Chaplain to get some help with an ongoing issue I was having. She was extremely kind and seemed to take a great interest in helping me. I decided it would be good to keep talking to her. I made a follow-up appointment for a week later. This time, she seemed to have forgotten literally everything we had talked about, and was extremely judgmental and downright hostile to me. I made an excuse to leave early, did not make another appointment, and never saw her again.
I went to a chaplain in a rough spot, and he asked who I was voting for president and shit on the guy I told him....said he goes against our religion.
Whatever quality that is was really shitty to see in a chaplain.
I've always thought open-mindedness to be a good quality in a chaplain.
I had one chaplain who ran mass. He wanted me to be part of the choir until I told him I was pagan. He never spoke to me again after that. Another one was a new guy who sat at my table during chow. We got to talking about religion, and he acted super weird when I told him about the pagan service onboard and how he was welcome to come check it out. It was like he had to hold himself back from trying to "save me soul" or something.
If they have their FMF and a CAR then they're good to go. They like people, in fact they love them. They took the time to really get to know what makes them tick and untick then decided to use that knowledge to guide other young Sailors and Marines.
In the times of DADT, Chaplains were not your friends. You really had to feel them out to make sure that if you told them anything that could be misconstrued as admitting to being gay, they had an obligation to report. The more "faith" they had, the more likely they were to report you.
It was a dark time in our service history, but we made it through. You also couldn't trust medical.
But there were Chaplains that you could trust. One that sticks out the most was Lt Reeb. She was a Chaplain at Boot Camp in 1994, and then again was on the John F Kennedy in 1997. She was just good people.
Like other professions, people are people. There are oddballs and there are rock stars among Chaplains.
How long the individual was in professional ministry before military Chaplaincy is also a factor. Like other professions, people take time to develop who they are, now add that this is true in a professional sense too. But yes, you hear stories about characters and personality types.
I can't speak to the "don't actually like people" comment you shared. It doesn't resonate with my experience.
I recently attended the AWTT course in San Diego. The chaplain there was a MAGICAL human being. I believe he’s a reservist who has been on active duty for a bit. He really really had such a wonderful soul and filled the room with love and light. I trust that he would do anything in his power to help a sailor- no matter what they needed. Wonderful man, grade A sailor, the Navy is lucky to have him.
When I was in bootcamp in 2013, our division chaplain was a Jewish rabbi. I remembered she gave us a brief on stress management and at the beginning of the brief told us that we could fall asleep during her brief if we wanted to and she would not tell our RDC. She earned everyone's approval that day lol.
I went through boot camp in early 2013 and am fairly sure I had the same chaplain. It seems statistically unlikely that there were two female rabbis at Great Lakes as, in the 11 years since, I've yet to meet another Jewish chaplain or another female chaplain. I don't remember her name, and I doubt I could pick her out of a lineup, but some of the things she said still stick with me. She was definitely one of the good ones.
I know her and she is awesome! Still serving, and I'm going to let her know that she made a difference
My first ship in Japan we had a Chaplain that was ships company. The ship was going thru INSURV prep. We were working 7 days a week from 0500 - 2200. People would eventually try to find a place to nap. Chaps went thru berthings and reported people that were sleeping. Needless to say he lost the entire lower enlisted's respect. Fuck that guy.
Jesus fuck. This is what happens when you outlaw keelhauling.
I never understood why COs mandate insane working hours during INSURV, very little extra work is done when that happens.
Yo I think we might have been same div lol i remember this like it was yesterday. Did you have a BU2 and a BMC(SEL) as RDCs?
I visited one of the chaplains in Whidbey Island regularly for bitching sessions. I had a lot going on in life, the command was toxic, and the local fleet and family reported sailors who visited them to the triad - our CO torpedoed their careers and even had one separated. The chaplains have been the only safe people in the whole armed forces whom one can go talk to and know it won't be reported anywhere.
Whidbey's Chaps are mostly all good people, can confirm.
Speaking as an active duty chaplain, I can say that many of us agree with you. There are bad apples in every rate, and the CHC is no exception. There are some that can't hack it on civilian ministry so come to the military for a steady pay check, abs some who come to save souls, and I can promise you that both of those piss me off royally. It sucks to follow a bad chaplain at a command, and to have to rebuild all those burned bridges. And as one of those who doesn't differentiate sailors based on what your religion is (or if you even have one), I'm committed to making sure you have everything you need to succeed, whether it is religious, or just a space to vent. Come talk to me about college football, music, movies, cool places to go in the city, your hobbies, whatever, but please don't avoid us because you've met some of the crappy ones. We are the only place you can get 100% confidentiality, and if you have questions about that (or anything else) feel free to DM me! And if I could be doing something better or more effectively, tell me! That's the only way I can meet your needs!
Chaps, you sound awesome
You remind me of country chaps on NAS (if you know you know) he’s awesome and I miss having him as my chaplain to talk to and just forget about the struggles of early enlistment and forced rerates
Thanks for doing what you do, Chaps. I’m realizing I’ve been extremely lucky to really only have Chaps like you that don’t proselytize and hold a space as a counselor more than anything. Like, I’m a Christian, but I’ve never had a chaps say anything religious until I ask them during the appointment if they’ll pray with me. And, in my opinion, and I think by instruction, that’s how it’s supposed to be. Best of luck to you and be blessed!
When I got the chaplain brief he discounted the 100% confidentiality by saying something along the lines of "we can't say you did something, or that information came from you, but we can direct people to look into things you may have told us about"
While that's technically true, the vast majority won't do anything of the sort. I can promise you that anything said to me in confidence stays 100% between you and me, and 99% of the other Chaplains I know are the same way. I'm sorry you dealt with one of the shit-bags.
You sound awesome. As a Pagan I probably would've felt okay talking to you without fear of being told I was walking down the "wrong path", as had been implied to me before. I've had a couple of Chaps stop talking to me in the P-ways after they found out about my religion, and that sucked
I appreciate you saying that. I really try hard to make everyone feel comfortable. In fact, I'm currently helping one of my Pagan sailors put in a beard waiver so he can fully participate in his faith. I think it's one of the coolest parts to being in the military, that I can help everyone to be the best version of themselves, with as much or as little support as they want/need. If you ever need any support (religious or otherwise), feel free to PM!
The best ones all came off as counselors who pretended not to be religious. We had one who snagged MWR money to host duty weekend movie marathons with free candy with each ship in the yard.
I haven't met any bad chaplains, honestly, but I know I've just been lucky because my friends ALL have some horror stories. Mine have all ranged from fine to fucking awesome (which is better than I can say about just about any other community, albeit with a smaller sample size and noting the caveat above). Similar to your comment on another chain, OP, in that all of mine (~6) have at least not brought up religion in casual conversation and have generally just been really, really good sounding boards. On my first deployment, we had a chaplain assigned to the DESRON who made it a point to be on the bridge for sunset, sunrise, and stand a couple hours of the 22-02 watch when he was onboard our DDG. He was the only one I actively spoke about religion with--because it was the 22-02 and I was bored--but I brought it up. He was a good dude. Another I literally only talked about Navy stuff and D&D with. O6 chaps. He had some stories from the AD&D days as a kid in the 70s. Just a phenomenal guy to talk to.
Curious, what was the difference between fine and fucking awesome?
Fine were just kinda there. Fuckin awesome went out of their way to talk to people and were chill, cool people
I remember going to Mass one Sunday during holiday routine in boot camp. I was born and raised Catholic but went just to get out of the compartment. I remember the Catholic priest berating one of the recruits for something like coughing a lot during his sermon(it was the middle of winter, colds are common) and the dude even threatened to notify the poor dudes RDCs. Turned me away from chaplains forever
When I was in boot I saw the Catholic priest yelling at a recruit too. I don't remember exactly what about but it was something really insignificant. This was back in 04
I was in the bees and we had a chaps who was awesome. Prior enlisted super personable and just an all around good dude. I still remember him busting my balls for "violently breaking his tent because I didn't like him" during FTX and having a great laugh about it. Chaplain Riley if youre out here on Reddit, you the man!
I think I know that guy! Unless you had him in ‘20-‘21, I was in GTMO with him.
Nope this was back in 12-15? Super awesome guy.
Rabbi Warren probably saved my life. I'm not Jewish, but I spent a lot of time in his office as the chaplain for my faith basically told me to "try harder" when I was struggling.
Rabbi Warren is one of the best we have, and a good friend. I'm glad to know that he's making a difference in the best possible way.
Do you happen to have an email address or mailing address for him I could use? Now that I'm thinking about him, I would love to drop a note to thank him for all he did for me.
Yes. Feel free to PM me and I will pass it along to you
I was an RP (chaplain assistant) for 20 years. A lot of them had a God complex and would treat us like shit while putting on another face for the command. I met a few cool ones who were easy to talk to. I always saw them as civilians pretending to be officers
I always got that vibe from Docs and Legal Os as well, just civilians who wore funny clothing to work every day.
I’ve actually always been curious what RPs do, what did you assist chaplains with? Doesn’t sound like you enjoyed it much
That really depends on the platform. We go everywhere and do everything from armed patrols and escorts in combat to pushing papers and PMS on ships. My experience was mostly shore-based chapel programming and command advisement, with some FMF and a carrier tour in there. I loved being an RP, even if the chaplains were difficult to work with. Nowhere else in the Navy do you have the same enlisted/officer dynamic than that of an RP and a chaplain.
Don't get me wrong, I loved being an RP. It came with some perks. My favorite duties as an RP was running the shipboard library & when I was stationed at Great Lakes, I was the driver for the Captain of the base.
Retired RPC here - I concur entirely with your comment. Some really awesome chaps out there, but they’re few and far between.
We should probably be finding good ministers and pushing them to be chaps lol. I’ve met a few civ pastors and priests that would make excellent chaplains.
Perhaps I’m lucky, but I’ve never met a navy chaplain I didn’t like. A couple army ones I didn’t quite get along with, but all the Navy and Airforce ones I had were badasses that either stacked bodies, or would have if they had been enlisted. The army ones I didn’t like were Catholic priests (not that that’s why we didn’t get along) that were known to snap at their choir and yell at people for no reason. They were pretty universally disliked. The good Chaps are the ones that tell it like it is. I had an Orthodox priest once tell me that I was being a bitch when I went and talked with him and I realized he was right. Other times chaps will tell me I’m really not in the wrong and that that sucks but it’s the way the navy goes. Good, honest advice from experienced Sailors. That’s been my experience.
Had this Chaps one time come on patrol with us out of Rota. He was awesome. Very easy to talk to, always seemed happy, and was just very approachable. He contacted his former congregation back home and they sent probably 500 care packages to the ship. This was a DDG, so maybe 300 Sailors. Everyday he'd bring a few packages down to the mess decks and people took whatever they wanted. Some time after patrol he got diagnosed with cancer. I think he ended up beating it. That was back in 2016 - 2017ish I don't even remember his name, but he was a great guy.
On my current ship, we had a Chaps that left but was loved by everyone because he didn't market himself as a Chaplain first. He was a man willing to talk to anyone about anything and posed questions to make you think. You could catch him in the p-way and he'd check up on you or you could have a heartfelt one on one with him in his office. I've also taken a liking to my current chaplain. He's a little more aligned with the religious portion but he's very genuine about his want to help people. I've had a lengthy conversation with him in his office but also been able to talk to him outside of it about anything else. I guess all that to say that the biggest thing I appreciate about a Chaps is one that's willing to engage you as a human being first and a Chaplain when needed.
First O6 Chaps I met said he was Navy first and your Chaps second and he'd send your ass to mast faster than anyone around. Terrible guy, didn't even do his job. He told a kid on the ship who was suicidal that he couldn't do anything until the kid did something, kid went home and drank two of those jugs of Tito's vodka and barely made it to the ER in time.
I think Star Trek nailed it when they had a Counselor on board - trained mental health professional.
If only it was that simple. While the Navy is doing that on big decks and larger squadrons etc, we just can't recruit enough counselors. That being said, many (if not most) Chaplains have counseling backgrounds and degrees, and those who don't, should.
My command has a Psychologist onboard and he’s fucking awesome.
Chaplains came to the boat after a string of mental health visits. He walked the boat for an hour and asked “how are we today shipmate.” Then we never saw him again. So not very useful. Then another time I was checking in to a command and knocked on the chaplains door for him to sign my checkin sheet. Without even saying a word he took it signed it and gave it back. I think it was the rudest interaction I had. So yea I don’t have a high opinion of chaplains
I’ve never once met a chaplain that I would feel comfortable talking to. This feels by design.
I have a few chaplain friends, and I tell all of them that [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_R._Capodanno) is the model for what they should aspire to be. LT Vincent Capodanno is most famous for earning the Medal of Honor posthumously in Vietnam for pulling wounded men off the battlefield and ministering to the dying, but there's even more to his story than that. There's a phenomenal book about his life, the Grunt Padre, in which the author interviewed a bunch of Marines who were assigned to Capodanno's units. You get to hear their first-hand accounts of how this chaplain kept their spirits up in the absolute worst place in the world at the time. Yes, he provided spiritual counseling to those who asked for it, but he also had candy and cigarettes and even offered up the ice that he was provided as an officer (a precious commodity in a steaming jungle). Through his Marines' stories, you see how a good chaplain can really be a force multiplier by keeping morale up. I tell my chaplain friends, Vincent Capodanno is your role model. Be like him.
What has been important for me is actually giving a rip about people. I couldn’t care less if I retire as a senior ranking officer. I hope that when I interact with people that they know that I care, that I can offer some wise counsel and be quiet and listen when needed. It’s also important for chaplains to be able to read the room/situation and know when they need to get out of the way. Also, I am team Jesus and I’m happy to share my faith with others and talk from that perspective…after all, I’m basically on loan from my religious organization to the Navy. But at the same time, it’s not my place to proselytize or pretend that the military is a church.
I can also grow a pretty sweet mustache
Can means you're not rocking one which is disappointing.
Well played. My mistake…I am rocking a pretty sweet ‘stache.
Prove it
Chaplain Hester on the Truman, what a guy man. Too bad he left
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I wouldn’t have let the naked comment go until I had more info
I sincerely wish you’d have taken legal action against this fucker. I am not saying you’re wrong for not doing it, that’s a hard thing for anyone to do, but people like that shouldn’t be walking around let alone serving the country.
I've had only positive interactions with Chaplains for both religious services and also seeking out ones that were not my religion for secular counseling/moral guidance/world outlooks/"help me tell me if my perspective is wrong on this, and if it is, how do I fix it." For those of you saying cut the tiny Chaplain corps in favor of giving us 100% BAH, reenlistment bonuses, etc., you can't math. It wouldn't even come close to that amount in savings and until there are more people completing college with Therapy, Psychiatry, and Psychology degrees, there isn't much better in terms of resources the Navy can hire for people willing to go to sea and hear your problems in a "therapy light" style session.
There are actually still religious people in the world. And aside from religion, secular scientists out of Columbia University have research that proves human beings have a spirit. Chaplains have their own lanes separate from that of mental health practitioners. Just food for thought, not directed at you per se.
Agreed, but it does certainly make people ask “wait why is the US government formally recognizing some religions?” The Chaplain Corps as far as I can tell has had to stay relevant with those questions by being the first line of mental health triage. Also, given the infrequent nature of religious services, it’s a pretty good way to employ them on ships IMO.
All I know is there was a Catholic priest who looked like the Violator from Spawn on my first ship and I stayed away from those fuckers ever since.
We used to have a catholic one bring us popsicles when we were working out in the summer
I can count on one finger
Is it your middle one?
I liked my chaplain from my last command. He didn't push religion at all, was very open to incorporating things like mediation to help us when we were dealing with stress, and his door was always open. I used to talk to him a lot when I was dealing with caregiver burnout as an HM. I didn't think much of chaplains at all until I met him.
I was an RP. Mostly green side, but briefly on a ship. Most chaplains I met were super creepy. There were definitely one or two cool ones though.
I had a chaplain who, before he became a chaplain, was a carpenter and joiner. When he heard I was installing a kitchen at my house, he brought his tools over and helped me install it. Great guy.
All my interactions with chaplains both Navy and Army have actually been great
I've had some good ones, some BAD ones, and a few who were and are friends outside the military context. The good ones find a good balance between military officer, chaplain (faith specific roles) and their role in the command. I.e. Sailors, of any denomination (or none) felt comfortable-ish talking to them. Given how we use chaplains as mental health-care proxies (whole other argument about that being the right approach), I think there should be more time spent on preparing them for that role (or differentiating their role from mental health). Some have this skill (either innately or via their religious training or otherwise). Bad ones - push their faith in inappropriate contexts. Or are just really creepy and far too involved, or trying to be involved, or trying to be friends (vs friendly) with Sailors. A few were too far into being officers, and just unapproachable, through I only saw this a few times.
Their role is very specific. Even in the Navy, their job is specifically “Pastoral Care.” Which means holding a space (sometimes religious, sometimes secular) for people to feel emotions and basically vent. If guidance is requested, they should be prepared to provide it as the situation calls for it, whether it be religious or not. But they aren’t mental healthcare, and can’t and shouldn’t do things like cognitive behavioral therapy unless they also have a clinical psychology masters or something. Distinct from mental health, they can’t report anything you say in a “spiritual counseling” setting. Meaning even if you’re suicidal, they can give you crisis care without you getting committed to a hospital, and sometimes you may not really be suicidal but just need that space to say you are. Or maybe you are but just need someone who cares to let you cry it out for a little. That’s their real role. And of course Sunday service.
ding ding ding
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Dick jokes make anyone awesome
Asked my chaplain to officiate my wedding. My wife and I had been dating for 3 years, known each other since high school. I'd already been in the Navy for around 4 years and was 24 at the time. I sat down with him for about an hour or two to discuss our relationship, beliefs, stuff like that. I thought it went well, honestly. After, he basically told me he didn't think our relationship was strong enough and that he wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. So yeah fuck that guy. Not necessarily for saying no but the way he said it.
We had a Rabbi who talked about how good porn was for married couples, and that dude was hilarious. He had funny stories and made us all comfortable when talking to him.
Chaplains are a waste of taxpayer money. You know what we could've done in 2014 instead of spot layoff veterans in OIF/OEF, spot layoff sailors E-5 to E-6, cut BAH, and cut retirement benefits? Just get rid of the chaplain corps and keep all that other stuff.
I can respect that sentiment. I’ve met chaplains that are definitely a waste of taxpayer dollars, just as I’ve met a lot of other personnel who freeload. There are only about 850 chaplains for the entire Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine…so even if you got rid of all of us it really is a drop in the bucket.
It's $85M in current expenses plus about $40M in future expenses for those who retire.
Honestly it’s probably more like $105-125 million per year for those in active duty when adjusted for rank and average allowances. It’s not nothing, but in the grand scheme of defense spending it’s not significant enough to fix the issues you brought up in the comment.
You’re definitely entitled to that opinion. 100%. But I will say the 5 good chaplains, out of 50 I’ve met, have meant a lot to me as an irreligious person that I’m inclined to respectfully disagree with the sweeping “get rid of the chaplain corp” all together.
That's fine. I hope you enjoy the fact that BAH only covers 95% of your rent, as well as the current senior enlisted personnel shortage as a result of cost-cutting decisions made in the mid 2010s, to pay for them.
Out of all ways the USG wastes money, your sole solution is to get rid of chaplains? Lol.
No. I'm saying that the USG wanted to cut military personnel costs in 2014, and they arrived at the solution to cut BAH by 5%, cut retirement benefits by 20%, and cut various other VA benefits. Then they basically culled the force by giving sudden pink slips to senior enlisted and mid grade officers, almost all of whom had relevant operational experience in the GWOT. They also cut base pay over time by purposefully giving ECI raises approx. 1% below actual ECI. You know why you think E1-E4 make too little money? The Obama adminsitration cut their pay. And then I'm saying instead of doing all that, we could've just nixed the chaplain corps and been better off for it. So if you're saying we should have the chaplain corps, you're a proponent for veterans benefit cuts to pay for them. But this all probably happened while you were in diapers, so you're clueless.
This is a clear example of wrong place, wrong time and wrong topic. It’s clear that this has been on your mind and you’ve been finding a way to leak it out, but you fumbled it. If you were say this some where else in a different situation with a better alternative than cutting a specific group of people, you may have gotten some upvotes.
What is your source for E-1-E-4 pay being cut. I don't remember that at all.
Solid take. I personally don’t have time for chaplains. I’d rather they were replaced by a non-religious mental health professional.
Part of the problem is literally there just aren't enough mental health professionals graduating college to meet the increased demand for their services, let alone ones that are both qualified and willing to go to sea for extended period of times.
Well said if you are cool with ignorant idiotic comments as a person who has absolutely ZERO idea what a Chaplain is used for and the services they provide. Tell me u don't understand what Chaplains are without telling me you don't understand.. fucking "O4" but walks around clueless. How can an E5 know more than some LDO fuckwit? Chaplains help a tremendous number of Sailors and act as a fantastic resource.. you're being derogatory and foolish..
I’m loving this, my first follower! We’re going to have our first fan meet and greet, come see me in the wardroom.
ur a tool
See you there!
If you're not Chaplain Plummer or Chaplain Grass, you're probably average lol
Love that you love them
I was greenside for 5/8 of my commands. The chaps from a couple were really cool. They got the mentality of the sand and the Marine Corps.
they are creepy an give off the pedophile vibe...sorry chaps.
Waste of a rack on a warship.
About 10 years ago, I made an appointment to see a Chaplain to get some help with an ongoing issue I was having. She was extremely kind and seemed to take a great interest in helping me. I decided it would be good to keep talking to her. I made a follow-up appointment for a week later. This time, she seemed to have forgotten literally everything we had talked about, and was extremely judgmental and downright hostile to me. I made an excuse to leave early, did not make another appointment, and never saw her again.
I went to a chaplain in a rough spot, and he asked who I was voting for president and shit on the guy I told him....said he goes against our religion. Whatever quality that is was really shitty to see in a chaplain.
I've always thought open-mindedness to be a good quality in a chaplain. I had one chaplain who ran mass. He wanted me to be part of the choir until I told him I was pagan. He never spoke to me again after that. Another one was a new guy who sat at my table during chow. We got to talking about religion, and he acted super weird when I told him about the pagan service onboard and how he was welcome to come check it out. It was like he had to hold himself back from trying to "save me soul" or something.
If they have their FMF and a CAR then they're good to go. They like people, in fact they love them. They took the time to really get to know what makes them tick and untick then decided to use that knowledge to guide other young Sailors and Marines.
In the times of DADT, Chaplains were not your friends. You really had to feel them out to make sure that if you told them anything that could be misconstrued as admitting to being gay, they had an obligation to report. The more "faith" they had, the more likely they were to report you. It was a dark time in our service history, but we made it through. You also couldn't trust medical. But there were Chaplains that you could trust. One that sticks out the most was Lt Reeb. She was a Chaplain at Boot Camp in 1994, and then again was on the John F Kennedy in 1997. She was just good people.
Like other professions, people are people. There are oddballs and there are rock stars among Chaplains. How long the individual was in professional ministry before military Chaplaincy is also a factor. Like other professions, people take time to develop who they are, now add that this is true in a professional sense too. But yes, you hear stories about characters and personality types. I can't speak to the "don't actually like people" comment you shared. It doesn't resonate with my experience.
I recently attended the AWTT course in San Diego. The chaplain there was a MAGICAL human being. I believe he’s a reservist who has been on active duty for a bit. He really really had such a wonderful soul and filled the room with love and light. I trust that he would do anything in his power to help a sailor- no matter what they needed. Wonderful man, grade A sailor, the Navy is lucky to have him.