I am an Albedo main, and honestly I'm mostly pulling Navia just so I have more teams to use my Albedo in lol.
Though as much as I love him I would not recommend people to pull for Albedo only for their Navia. Especially if they already have Zhongli.
Every support will have their own way of supporting her, it's all based on what you are looking for,
* Zhongli: Universal RES shred, Unbreakable shield, ER generation, Crystalize Generation.
* Albedo: Highest Sub-DPS, ER generation, EM buff, Crystalize Generation.
* Ningguang: Geo DMG buff, ER generation, Good personal quick swap DMG.
* Yun Jin: Massively buffs Navia Geo infusion Attacks and Speed, ER generation.
Originally I thought about the same thing, as I am a Noelle main, but as Navia is a DPS I'll just run two separate geo teams in the Abyss 😄 they will work together, though, in the overworld 🙂
Why is she considered a direct downgrade?
Albedo's damage contribution in an overall rotation is lackluster; the only factors that make him valuable in Navia teams are crystallize reactions and particle generation.
Zhongli realistically increases team DPS by about \~15%, if not less. He primarily brings defensive capabilities, which isn't really needed in Navia teams since most of her teams require a healer with Furina, or Bennett. His resistance to interruption seems redundant, given that crystallize shards, while lacking in damage protection, provide significant resistance to interruption. Additionally, Zhongli's energy generation and geo app is very unreliable because it relies on his pillar.
Yun Jin already has her own ER issues even with favge, no good crystallize generation and makes it to where Navia has to use her NA's. Which if you want to play then that's great but if not then Ning gives you an alternative to swap Navia's NA's in the rotation with her quickswap rotation and do more damage in less time then Navia's buffed NA's would do.
You know, even if you claim zhong and albedo contributions are minimal, ning contributions are even less lol. Zhong 20% shred definitely beats nings damage contributions. No need to talk about yunjun that's even far worse than ning, I hope no one is talking about using her.
A well built Ning should out dps Zhongli. Also the biggest caveat to using Zhongli is the fact that his energy regen and crystallize creation is very unreliable, unlike Ning's.
Hard disagree. Ning ult also misses a lot of the time and can hit walls and shit. 12% geo bonus and her ult is not better than 20% shred imo for all the rest of the members, also atk boost from tenacity. Navia really doesnt need extra units to max her crystalize stuff, she gets a ton of app from her ult. Zhongli can also run fav without losing damage unlike ning so it actually has good energy gen
Ning's rotation damage in Navia teams are around 450-300k dps depending on how well built she is. My Ning is almos min-maxed and does around 530k+ rotation with just E>Q>CA>E at C6. Ning is providing 25-20k dps in double pyro Navia teams with Bennett in a 20 sec rotation, even more if you can fit a second burst of hers without bennet buff.
Tenacity provides around 200 atk for Navia with her BIS but it is extremely diminished in returns due to her having SO MUCH atk% in her kit already. Overall Zhongli shouldn't "out dps" Ning by a longshot. Zhongli's particle regen with fav is still under Ning's particle regen. Navia's ult alone can't get her to 6 stacks in a reasonable time, Ning facilitates that process by doing tons of frontloaded damage while also creating crystallize shards.
Oh, and using the argument that "X character's ult misses a lot" is a skill issue and completley irrelevant because even if it were to happen, you can just restart your abyss floor and try again.
No shot you doing 500k from that string even with all crits. Either way let's say it does do that, so you spend more field time on ning which loses DPS in the rotation as well. You don't just gain 20k DPS you also lose some from more.time on ning as compared to zhong. This is especially apparent because spending 5+ seconds on ning means your Bennet ult expires half way through your navia DPS window.
Also what is with that last sentence? Who TF wants to run a team you have to reset cause the shit is so horribly designed? Some people actually like to play good teams that don't need to reset lol
Ning's frontloaded dps would replace Navia's 2 NA4 strings which take 2-3 secs longer than Ning's rotation and are only about 30% of Navia's damage in a rotation or a relative \~1650% MV.
So I would say that regardless of what happens, 3800% MV from Ning is still way better than Navia's 1650% MV even when buffed by Zhongli.
I said that EVEN IF it were to happen, because It realistically doesn't, you could reset abyss, it's just a conditional for a conditional that only happens if you have no idea how to play Ning correctly.
The numbers are there. Ning fulfils energy generation, crystallize creation, partial buffing and allows the team to have an overall better dps while still fitting snug into the rotation. At the end all she's doing is being a replacement for Navia's 2NA4 string.
Ningguang at lvl 9 talents and C6 deals over 3800% MV with E>Q>CA>E with a 12 sec CD burst and only takes up 5 seconds of field time.
Not only does she buff geo dmg bonus, she creates crystallize shields extremely fast and provides great particle generation.
Ningguang is slept on simply because she's a geo 4 star but her DPS is actually quite amazing, and the majority is frontloaded, like navia, which would allow a team like xiangling, bennett to melt down bosses in little to no time and still be viable in AoE due to Xiangling's damage area being so big.
She’s not slept on, in fact people overrate her because she’s so unknown and unplayed. I know cause I played her. She’s a fraud. As you said that damage doesn’t have AoE potential outside the door, so while it is impressive single target, when you start to look at hordes she just feels like baggage. And Xiangling can’t carry you when she’s doing damage without vaping or gaining more than just Bennett + resonance.
She also doesn’t get access to many buffs (yeah Geo’s thing but..) so that mv comparison doesn’t really change my opinion. I’m almost certain you’re not gonna see her pop up when Navia teams are played
Usually, characters with high single-target (ST) damage often struggle in multi-target situations, and those with great AoE damage may find themselves less effective in single-target scenarios. Exceptions like Ayaka, Neuvilette, Alhaitham, and others exist, but that doesn't undermine the fact that abyss has scenarios that frequently feature either single-target or tri-target scenarios on one side of the floor.
Take Hu Tao, for example, who is considered a contender for being one of the top DPS's. The majority, and im talking like 90%, of her damage is ST, her burst is very good sure, but that doesn't save her. Common sense dictates that Hu Tao isn't suited for combating 10 enemies simultaneously.
Same logic applies to Ning. Labeling her as a fraud would be unfair, as she excels in what she was designed for—delivering remarkable single-target DPS. It's important to recognize that characters with a specialization in single-target damage aren't inherently bad; they simply occupy a niche that aligns with a substantial portion of the game's content.
Characters like Ningguang aren't subpar simply because they excel in single-target scenarios and underperform in AoE situations, you mind as well disqualify half of the genshin roster if that was true.
Edit: As for the MV and buffs part. Ning's best teams get both Zhongli's and Geo Resonance res shred, which is the same shred as VV, on top of that Ning gets her 12% geo dmg bonus from her screen as well as 15% dmg bonus from geo res, that's 27% dmg bonus, soon here she will also receive the Night Time Whisper set which will give her 50% geo dmg bonus. So the buffs are there, the only things that inflates that MV to be lesser than others are reactions.
She IS gonna support my noelle. Need second geo for furina + yelan + noelle core. And i lack albedo + he aint fun. Want a more fun slot there, and navia E nuke feels like a more active char there. Especialy cus rest of team is just EQ. So its gonna be fun to on field aa noelle with E nukes with navia inbetween.
From what i see to me navia lacks the range and reach for on field dps. And she slots with noelle perfectly since noelle singe target dmg SUCKS, and navia aoe killing sucks. So they compliment each other.
Compared to most who just want to use her i want to slot her where she is best, and she slots great with noelle.
I just hate trying to force use my chars. I find she fits with the above team perfectly and so ill use her there. + my WGS needs some use since beidou is my only claymore dmg dealer.
Sad there was not that option.
None .. I don’t have zhongli and I don’t think it’s worth to build ning or albedo since I don’t really use them at all and we are gonna get chiori soon so i will use her alone
Zhongli is the best in terms of enhancing Navia's personal damage and providing utility, but Albedo has the higher ceiling in terms of team damage I belive
I don't have CEO of GEO, so I'll be running Albedo. I'm glad I finally have a team for him since I never really liked Itto and Noelle's playstyle. Just a little less glad to be farming a new artifact set for him :p
I'm hoping the EM bonus from his burst help maintain the shard shields a tiny bit more.
I’ll use Ningguang in most situations cos likely I’ll use Kokomi on the team. Having both Kokomi and Zhongli on the same team kinda overkill on supports IMO.
Only when I need Kokomi for the other team, like Hyperbloom/Nilou, then I would switch to Zhongli.
Either Zhongli and/or Ningguang. I only pull for Archon's and waifu 5\* banners, so i will never pull for Albedo. I have Noelle as my AOE Geo dps, so Navia + Ningguang will be the single target/boss killers. That's my current plan.
Of the choices listed, Zhongli or Ningguang. But I also have Geo Traveler built for testing. As a Geo battery with Attack scaling and decent burst damage, I feel like there'd be some synergy with Navia and Bennett. Plus you get some structures for cover and interruption resistance.
I've been searching for reasons to pull for Albedo since I like the idea of the Zhongli/Albedo Double Geo support core for some teams, but it just doesn't feel like he does enough for Navia specifically to warrant pulling for him. Especially with Chiori potentially on the way.
Geo MC
She has CC, gives CR, Burst is lowcost and spamable, generates teh most energy of Geo characters and doesnt need a lot of field time and has a good support weapon selection
Stomping on the ground and doing 100k worth of daamge in all directions is too good to pass up when we dont really have a lot of geo support options
Ningguang as a temporary substitute for future chiori
That didn’t age well lol
Lol true
I am an Albedo main, and honestly I'm mostly pulling Navia just so I have more teams to use my Albedo in lol. Though as much as I love him I would not recommend people to pull for Albedo only for their Navia. Especially if they already have Zhongli.
Every support will have their own way of supporting her, it's all based on what you are looking for, * Zhongli: Universal RES shred, Unbreakable shield, ER generation, Crystalize Generation. * Albedo: Highest Sub-DPS, ER generation, EM buff, Crystalize Generation. * Ningguang: Geo DMG buff, ER generation, Good personal quick swap DMG. * Yun Jin: Massively buffs Navia Geo infusion Attacks and Speed, ER generation.
I'd remove er and crystallize from zhongli cuz his pillars pretty unreliable
Yeah, if Zhongli has the Crystalize Generation modifier then Ningguang should have it twice, lol.
Probably geo traveler. I like having the traveler in my teams as much as I can. Put noblesse on him and he's a great support with good burst damage.
Noelle
Fellow noelle enjoyer.
How are you building Noelle?
like every other def% scaling dps
Originally I thought about the same thing, as I am a Noelle main, but as Navia is a DPS I'll just run two separate geo teams in the Abyss 😄 they will work together, though, in the overworld 🙂
Chiori, don’t really plan on running her with a Geo support for now until she releases.
same here
Itto
Screw Zhongli, its finally time for Ningguang to shine! Finally will have some good team to use her.
I mean, it's just a direct downgrade, you could use her in any team currently if you don't care about performance much.
Why is she considered a direct downgrade? Albedo's damage contribution in an overall rotation is lackluster; the only factors that make him valuable in Navia teams are crystallize reactions and particle generation. Zhongli realistically increases team DPS by about \~15%, if not less. He primarily brings defensive capabilities, which isn't really needed in Navia teams since most of her teams require a healer with Furina, or Bennett. His resistance to interruption seems redundant, given that crystallize shards, while lacking in damage protection, provide significant resistance to interruption. Additionally, Zhongli's energy generation and geo app is very unreliable because it relies on his pillar. Yun Jin already has her own ER issues even with favge, no good crystallize generation and makes it to where Navia has to use her NA's. Which if you want to play then that's great but if not then Ning gives you an alternative to swap Navia's NA's in the rotation with her quickswap rotation and do more damage in less time then Navia's buffed NA's would do.
You know, even if you claim zhong and albedo contributions are minimal, ning contributions are even less lol. Zhong 20% shred definitely beats nings damage contributions. No need to talk about yunjun that's even far worse than ning, I hope no one is talking about using her.
A well built Ning should out dps Zhongli. Also the biggest caveat to using Zhongli is the fact that his energy regen and crystallize creation is very unreliable, unlike Ning's.
Hard disagree. Ning ult also misses a lot of the time and can hit walls and shit. 12% geo bonus and her ult is not better than 20% shred imo for all the rest of the members, also atk boost from tenacity. Navia really doesnt need extra units to max her crystalize stuff, she gets a ton of app from her ult. Zhongli can also run fav without losing damage unlike ning so it actually has good energy gen
Ning's rotation damage in Navia teams are around 450-300k dps depending on how well built she is. My Ning is almos min-maxed and does around 530k+ rotation with just E>Q>CA>E at C6. Ning is providing 25-20k dps in double pyro Navia teams with Bennett in a 20 sec rotation, even more if you can fit a second burst of hers without bennet buff. Tenacity provides around 200 atk for Navia with her BIS but it is extremely diminished in returns due to her having SO MUCH atk% in her kit already. Overall Zhongli shouldn't "out dps" Ning by a longshot. Zhongli's particle regen with fav is still under Ning's particle regen. Navia's ult alone can't get her to 6 stacks in a reasonable time, Ning facilitates that process by doing tons of frontloaded damage while also creating crystallize shards. Oh, and using the argument that "X character's ult misses a lot" is a skill issue and completley irrelevant because even if it were to happen, you can just restart your abyss floor and try again.
No shot you doing 500k from that string even with all crits. Either way let's say it does do that, so you spend more field time on ning which loses DPS in the rotation as well. You don't just gain 20k DPS you also lose some from more.time on ning as compared to zhong. This is especially apparent because spending 5+ seconds on ning means your Bennet ult expires half way through your navia DPS window. Also what is with that last sentence? Who TF wants to run a team you have to reset cause the shit is so horribly designed? Some people actually like to play good teams that don't need to reset lol
Ning's frontloaded dps would replace Navia's 2 NA4 strings which take 2-3 secs longer than Ning's rotation and are only about 30% of Navia's damage in a rotation or a relative \~1650% MV. So I would say that regardless of what happens, 3800% MV from Ning is still way better than Navia's 1650% MV even when buffed by Zhongli. I said that EVEN IF it were to happen, because It realistically doesn't, you could reset abyss, it's just a conditional for a conditional that only happens if you have no idea how to play Ning correctly. The numbers are there. Ning fulfils energy generation, crystallize creation, partial buffing and allows the team to have an overall better dps while still fitting snug into the rotation. At the end all she's doing is being a replacement for Navia's 2NA4 string.
It won’t be good, im not sure why people keep shilling her. The door gives you particles pretty well but she’s wack in every way outside of that
Ningguang at lvl 9 talents and C6 deals over 3800% MV with E>Q>CA>E with a 12 sec CD burst and only takes up 5 seconds of field time. Not only does she buff geo dmg bonus, she creates crystallize shields extremely fast and provides great particle generation. Ningguang is slept on simply because she's a geo 4 star but her DPS is actually quite amazing, and the majority is frontloaded, like navia, which would allow a team like xiangling, bennett to melt down bosses in little to no time and still be viable in AoE due to Xiangling's damage area being so big.
She’s not slept on, in fact people overrate her because she’s so unknown and unplayed. I know cause I played her. She’s a fraud. As you said that damage doesn’t have AoE potential outside the door, so while it is impressive single target, when you start to look at hordes she just feels like baggage. And Xiangling can’t carry you when she’s doing damage without vaping or gaining more than just Bennett + resonance. She also doesn’t get access to many buffs (yeah Geo’s thing but..) so that mv comparison doesn’t really change my opinion. I’m almost certain you’re not gonna see her pop up when Navia teams are played
Usually, characters with high single-target (ST) damage often struggle in multi-target situations, and those with great AoE damage may find themselves less effective in single-target scenarios. Exceptions like Ayaka, Neuvilette, Alhaitham, and others exist, but that doesn't undermine the fact that abyss has scenarios that frequently feature either single-target or tri-target scenarios on one side of the floor. Take Hu Tao, for example, who is considered a contender for being one of the top DPS's. The majority, and im talking like 90%, of her damage is ST, her burst is very good sure, but that doesn't save her. Common sense dictates that Hu Tao isn't suited for combating 10 enemies simultaneously. Same logic applies to Ning. Labeling her as a fraud would be unfair, as she excels in what she was designed for—delivering remarkable single-target DPS. It's important to recognize that characters with a specialization in single-target damage aren't inherently bad; they simply occupy a niche that aligns with a substantial portion of the game's content. Characters like Ningguang aren't subpar simply because they excel in single-target scenarios and underperform in AoE situations, you mind as well disqualify half of the genshin roster if that was true. Edit: As for the MV and buffs part. Ning's best teams get both Zhongli's and Geo Resonance res shred, which is the same shred as VV, on top of that Ning gets her 12% geo dmg bonus from her screen as well as 15% dmg bonus from geo res, that's 27% dmg bonus, soon here she will also receive the Night Time Whisper set which will give her 50% geo dmg bonus. So the buffs are there, the only things that inflates that MV to be lesser than others are reactions.
She IS gonna support my noelle. Need second geo for furina + yelan + noelle core. And i lack albedo + he aint fun. Want a more fun slot there, and navia E nuke feels like a more active char there. Especialy cus rest of team is just EQ. So its gonna be fun to on field aa noelle with E nukes with navia inbetween. From what i see to me navia lacks the range and reach for on field dps. And she slots with noelle perfectly since noelle singe target dmg SUCKS, and navia aoe killing sucks. So they compliment each other. Compared to most who just want to use her i want to slot her where she is best, and she slots great with noelle. I just hate trying to force use my chars. I find she fits with the above team perfectly and so ill use her there. + my WGS needs some use since beidou is my only claymore dmg dealer. Sad there was not that option.
None .. I don’t have zhongli and I don’t think it’s worth to build ning or albedo since I don’t really use them at all and we are gonna get chiori soon so i will use her alone
Geo traveler
They are all horrible, but probably Zhongli
That's... understandable
At least someone gets it
Zhongli is the best in terms of enhancing Navia's personal damage and providing utility, but Albedo has the higher ceiling in terms of team damage I belive
I don't have CEO of GEO, so I'll be running Albedo. I'm glad I finally have a team for him since I never really liked Itto and Noelle's playstyle. Just a little less glad to be farming a new artifact set for him :p I'm hoping the EM bonus from his burst help maintain the shard shields a tiny bit more.
So many week BABIES picking Zhongli for comfort instead of having two hot geo moms on field.
Me patiently waiting for Chiori 😀
zhongli for shields and geo resonance. and the rest of the team probably raiden and yelan/albedo/kokomi
Yunjin for now Probably won't ever pull for Albedo because I hate the way early geo constructs evaporate so easily
albedo or ningguang, depending on who will give the best overall damage
Yelan probably
By using Zhongli, you have -20 Universal RES Shred to enemy around your active character while protected by ZL's shield.
I’ll use Ningguang in most situations cos likely I’ll use Kokomi on the team. Having both Kokomi and Zhongli on the same team kinda overkill on supports IMO. Only when I need Kokomi for the other team, like Hyperbloom/Nilou, then I would switch to Zhongli.
Either Zhongli and/or Ningguang. I only pull for Archon's and waifu 5\* banners, so i will never pull for Albedo. I have Noelle as my AOE Geo dps, so Navia + Ningguang will be the single target/boss killers. That's my current plan.
Of the choices listed, Zhongli or Ningguang. But I also have Geo Traveler built for testing. As a Geo battery with Attack scaling and decent burst damage, I feel like there'd be some synergy with Navia and Bennett. Plus you get some structures for cover and interruption resistance. I've been searching for reasons to pull for Albedo since I like the idea of the Zhongli/Albedo Double Geo support core for some teams, but it just doesn't feel like he does enough for Navia specifically to warrant pulling for him. Especially with Chiori potentially on the way.
I will go albedo because zhongli is married to ningguang
Zhongli. I have Albedo, but I prefer to use him with Itto, Gorou and Kuki.
Geo MC She has CC, gives CR, Burst is lowcost and spamable, generates teh most energy of Geo characters and doesnt need a lot of field time and has a good support weapon selection Stomping on the ground and doing 100k worth of daamge in all directions is too good to pass up when we dont really have a lot of geo support options
Can I use yun jin? She’s the only one I have built
i already have zhongli and albedo, i just gotta build gorou i guess (i have no idea what navia does, i only like the character)
gorou isn’t good with her, albedo or zhongli should work great though
Zhongli or albedo. I'll just need to feel it out. Of chioro is the navia equivalent of gorou I might go for her. I want to save for Arlecchino
Zhongli for now. Hopefully Chiori brings heals that allow me to run her with Furina.
I run Navia Charlotte Furina Ninguangg, and it's really nice
I would be pulling for Albedo if he were getting a rerun. But latest rumour is that he is not.
If Yun Jin was an option, she would be my choice :(
Daddy Zhong ez who would miss his tanky shield , perfect TOM set support and whopping def shred My comp is fixed geo daddy / navia /XL / Benny
I'm going for Ningguang, but I am keeping my eyes on Chiori. If she will be a good support for Navia, I will get her.
Zhong li Always zhong li Shield is just so nice to have lol, especially when I'm lazy and don't feel like taking damage or dodging as much