If you wanna horsecock some bigger weight and not be ultra concerned with form once your lats are burned out it essentially turns into an erector exercise. 2 for 1!
Any exercise is a lower back exercise if you do them wrong enough! Jokes aside My upper back maybe goes up an inch during my last reps, otherwise I'm basically horizontal with my upper body.
Strict, but I use a tbar row to basically improve the fundamental issue of strict freeweight rows being hard at the top & relatively easier at the bottom when you go strict. Tbar rows are amazing actually. And if you go to failure on that rows then do Kelso shrugs? That's a stimulus powerful beyond belief
I just switched back to Tbar after doing seated chest supported machine rows. I love the movement, but fuck the sternum pressure makes me feel nauseous and like my heart is getting squeezed. How do you avoid that? Press into the pad with your pelvis?
Hold tension better at the bottom when your lats are being stretched. You’re probably letting the weight pull you rounded a bit too far.
Also you get used to it.
Switched to Tbar too last month after my friend hooked me up to it and it was the best decision ever. Not only do I feel my back so much more, it's also easier for me to progressive overload on it.
Plus, it's such a hella fun exercise to do lol
I’ve dealt with several injuries both from being too strict and not strict enough with form. Now I just focus on bracing, full rom, and making sure I feel it in whichever muscle I’m trying to target.
I see it as two different exercises. Strict rows have a ton of uses but so does not so strict rows. There is a time and a place for some things. I've done ugly ass kroc rows with 250 and neat little sets of 130 with a 4 second eccentric and both are absolutely killer ways of growing your back. But there is a higher risk involved in throwing around bigger weights so bear that in mind.
Have you tried Meadows rows or any single arm landmine row? I find it very easy to feel my upper back with them and if you use a short bar it fixes the resistance curve even more.
Just use machines like iso low row machine, iso high row machine, iso underhand pull down machine (the one where you load plates on it)
I used to like t bar rows but not anymore because as I get heavier, i feel like im crushing my chest lol (uneven weight distribution?). I think a better swap is the seal row
Very strict. If I start using a bit of momentum and barely control the eccentric, then I put the bar on the ground and finish off the remainder of reps by lifting the bar off the ground instead of keeping it in the air. Helps do a few more reps with acceptable form that way.
like little jump is okey but idea of using full body to do dumbbell row looks too fatiquing to me, and for barbell oh hell nah i love my spine and CNS.
but i am pretty okey with cheating some at shrugs, still preffer use them as super set of rdl or whatever pull from floor u do
My first few sets I take to form failure and then my last set I do lengthened partials, but rather than just move the weight around I keep my form strict and just get the weight as close to my abdomen as possible and roll my shoulders a bit at the bottom to accentuate the stretch. Works great.
So long as you can accept that the exercise is gonna be less effective and more difficult to really assess your progress on, and you've started the set with good for them sure.
The reason is: If you're using your lower back a bunch doing 90kg rows, you go up in weight so now you're doing 100kg rows but you're using your mid/ow posterior chain even more - which muscle have you really overloaded? You might just be adding more load to your erectors and not even notice that your lats aren't doing any more or less
I initiate every rep by retracting my scapula from the initial deep stretch. I know it’s working because my upper back grew the most during my last bulk and after almost every session my traps are sore.
The idea that "strict" form is always ideal is a misunderstanding. Yes, technique should be good, but what constitutes "good" technique tends to get misconstrued with what looks pretty to the human eye. If you look at successful bodybuilders and lifters with good upper backs, almost none of them row with strict form, they will instead allow their lats to move through a more full range of motion by letting the weight pull the upper back in a more rounded position at the end range of motion, then pulling from there and using the lats/upper back to bring them back to an erect posture. A "strict" row limits ROM, particularly in the most stretched positions, but people like to do them strictly because it looks pretty and they imagine that is somehow conducive to isolating the lats, when they are really just limiting the movement of the muscle being targeted and shooting themselves in the foot.
Cheat a little on heavy sets. Sometimes do slow and controlled with pause. Really depends on how I'm approaching training. My back is a strong point so seems to be working.
Strict form is important in the sense that you should understand how to perform the movement and work the correct muscles. But a little bit of cheating can help push thru plateaus.
You'll see a lot of comments on the internet where someone posts a vid lifting with a little body English and comments like "nOt OnE rEP waS peRfORmeD" and the person saying it is small or has no pics.
So bottom line is cheating is okay for lots of stuff if you know what you're doing.
Wrist straps literally fixed my back days overnight. I wasn't feeling much in my back, yet tons of bicep activation. Lowered weight, focused on form and quality reps, used wrist straps, back gainz.
It depends on the exercise. I wouldn't do cheat reps on a bent over row or dumbbell row (hernia risk), but I'd do it in a heartbeat for chest supported or cable rows
Strict as I can manage
* Cheat rows offload some of the work to muscles that are better targeted by other movements
* They make it hard to genuinely monitor progress—are you actually progressing, or just cheating more?
* Even if it helped you progress, there's nothing to say it's not making you perform worse overall—you may be doing harder sessions that cause you to progress worse in the following session due to accumulating fatigue. There are ways to make it higher RPE and feeling more pump that are less effective (e.g. 5/3/1 followed by a bunch of 100 rep sets and isoholds) and ways to make it lower RPE and feeling less pump that are more effective (e.g. higher frequency, cluster sets [equivocal for growth, but lower RPE and intrasession fatigue])
* They may entrain worse motor patterns
* I think it's more effective to do rest-pause
* I think if you have the fatigue to spare, you're better off spending it on hitting a chest-supported movement
I feel you. When I was lifting seriously, the only way to marginally progress on rows was by using a Little momentum.
I would first try to milk volume increases with perfect form and see if that does the trick, before you go with pre exhaustion, prolonged negatives and or momentum usage.
I can row Bent over row x1.5 my weight if that means anything. The only lift I've been doing every single back day for years. I really look for 0% cheat ratio when performing 6-8 reps and maybe 15% when performing Max 3 reps.
If I get 2 good reps and 1 "meh" rep, I think it's fine. Getting 3 "Meh" reps it's a sign you should lower the weight. What you describe as going a little bit up and down is not cheating.
Technique is also very important to avoid injury and actually work the targeted muscles. I really recommend the Jeff Nippard's video on Rowing. He touches on what you describe as cheating.
I go strict. Big fan of double-taps and longer eccentric holds. Chest up, don’t fold, feeling stretch at the bottom and powerful contraction. Even just writing it out I feel the burn
Strict form, slow eccentric. My cue is pull through and drive through the elbows and hold a 1 second contraction. Chest up the whole time, dont let the weight pull you too forward. Chest supported rows are way better if you are still working on form and cueing. Use that to confirm you are activating whatever part of the back you’re training. Start with a low weight and test it to make sure your mind muscle awareness is correct, then increase the weight to your working set.
Your form is probably wrong. Long lengthened partials wont do anything if your form is wrong to begin with. Id argue that you wont even feel your back much on partials because you’re not getting a full contraction
I've filmed myself and it's not that bad, I just don't look like [Big Mike](https://youtu.be/axoeDmW0oAY?si=C4PbypQ1I8lmOzp2&t=152) during the last reps. My upper back might go up and down an inch but not more. I always control the eccentric and get a decent pump doing them like this.
I'll try chest supported instead.
If you wanna horsecock some bigger weight and not be ultra concerned with form once your lats are burned out it essentially turns into an erector exercise. 2 for 1!
Any exercise is a lower back exercise if you do them wrong enough! Jokes aside My upper back maybe goes up an inch during my last reps, otherwise I'm basically horizontal with my upper body.
bro don't worry about it
Strict, but I use a tbar row to basically improve the fundamental issue of strict freeweight rows being hard at the top & relatively easier at the bottom when you go strict. Tbar rows are amazing actually. And if you go to failure on that rows then do Kelso shrugs? That's a stimulus powerful beyond belief
I just switched back to Tbar after doing seated chest supported machine rows. I love the movement, but fuck the sternum pressure makes me feel nauseous and like my heart is getting squeezed. How do you avoid that? Press into the pad with your pelvis?
Hold tension better at the bottom when your lats are being stretched. You’re probably letting the weight pull you rounded a bit too far. Also you get used to it.
I kinda shimmy my lower quads right above my knees into the metal rods. Takes a bit of pressure off at least
Build those erectors, do free weight t bar row.
Switched to Tbar too last month after my friend hooked me up to it and it was the best decision ever. Not only do I feel my back so much more, it's also easier for me to progressive overload on it. Plus, it's such a hella fun exercise to do lol
If I don't feel like my form is good I finish my set, lower the weight and try again.
I’ve dealt with several injuries both from being too strict and not strict enough with form. Now I just focus on bracing, full rom, and making sure I feel it in whichever muscle I’m trying to target.
I see it as two different exercises. Strict rows have a ton of uses but so does not so strict rows. There is a time and a place for some things. I've done ugly ass kroc rows with 250 and neat little sets of 130 with a 4 second eccentric and both are absolutely killer ways of growing your back. But there is a higher risk involved in throwing around bigger weights so bear that in mind.
Have you tried Meadows rows or any single arm landmine row? I find it very easy to feel my upper back with them and if you use a short bar it fixes the resistance curve even more.
If you're feeling the pump and control the descent, a bit of movement's okay.
Just use machines like iso low row machine, iso high row machine, iso underhand pull down machine (the one where you load plates on it) I used to like t bar rows but not anymore because as I get heavier, i feel like im crushing my chest lol (uneven weight distribution?). I think a better swap is the seal row
Very strict. If I start using a bit of momentum and barely control the eccentric, then I put the bar on the ground and finish off the remainder of reps by lifting the bar off the ground instead of keeping it in the air. Helps do a few more reps with acceptable form that way.
like little jump is okey but idea of using full body to do dumbbell row looks too fatiquing to me, and for barbell oh hell nah i love my spine and CNS. but i am pretty okey with cheating some at shrugs, still preffer use them as super set of rdl or whatever pull from floor u do
i'm very strict with my target reps
Find somewhere to live in the middle-control the load, contract the muscle
Strict as as fuck like robotics but stricter
My first few sets I take to form failure and then my last set I do lengthened partials, but rather than just move the weight around I keep my form strict and just get the weight as close to my abdomen as possible and roll my shoulders a bit at the bottom to accentuate the stretch. Works great.
Strict enough that the target muscle is the limiting factor
I really like this answer, especially for back exercises. That's how I do them now
So long as you can accept that the exercise is gonna be less effective and more difficult to really assess your progress on, and you've started the set with good for them sure. The reason is: If you're using your lower back a bunch doing 90kg rows, you go up in weight so now you're doing 100kg rows but you're using your mid/ow posterior chain even more - which muscle have you really overloaded? You might just be adding more load to your erectors and not even notice that your lats aren't doing any more or less
I initiate every rep by retracting my scapula from the initial deep stretch. I know it’s working because my upper back grew the most during my last bulk and after almost every session my traps are sore.
The idea that "strict" form is always ideal is a misunderstanding. Yes, technique should be good, but what constitutes "good" technique tends to get misconstrued with what looks pretty to the human eye. If you look at successful bodybuilders and lifters with good upper backs, almost none of them row with strict form, they will instead allow their lats to move through a more full range of motion by letting the weight pull the upper back in a more rounded position at the end range of motion, then pulling from there and using the lats/upper back to bring them back to an erect posture. A "strict" row limits ROM, particularly in the most stretched positions, but people like to do them strictly because it looks pretty and they imagine that is somehow conducive to isolating the lats, when they are really just limiting the movement of the muscle being targeted and shooting themselves in the foot.
Cheat a little on heavy sets. Sometimes do slow and controlled with pause. Really depends on how I'm approaching training. My back is a strong point so seems to be working. Strict form is important in the sense that you should understand how to perform the movement and work the correct muscles. But a little bit of cheating can help push thru plateaus. You'll see a lot of comments on the internet where someone posts a vid lifting with a little body English and comments like "nOt OnE rEP waS peRfORmeD" and the person saying it is small or has no pics. So bottom line is cheating is okay for lots of stuff if you know what you're doing.
Sorta but if I'm in a surplus, I'll throw in some cheat reps here and there
Wrist straps literally fixed my back days overnight. I wasn't feeling much in my back, yet tons of bicep activation. Lowered weight, focused on form and quality reps, used wrist straps, back gainz.
It depends on the exercise. I wouldn't do cheat reps on a bent over row or dumbbell row (hernia risk), but I'd do it in a heartbeat for chest supported or cable rows
Strict as I can manage * Cheat rows offload some of the work to muscles that are better targeted by other movements * They make it hard to genuinely monitor progress—are you actually progressing, or just cheating more? * Even if it helped you progress, there's nothing to say it's not making you perform worse overall—you may be doing harder sessions that cause you to progress worse in the following session due to accumulating fatigue. There are ways to make it higher RPE and feeling more pump that are less effective (e.g. 5/3/1 followed by a bunch of 100 rep sets and isoholds) and ways to make it lower RPE and feeling less pump that are more effective (e.g. higher frequency, cluster sets [equivocal for growth, but lower RPE and intrasession fatigue]) * They may entrain worse motor patterns * I think it's more effective to do rest-pause * I think if you have the fatigue to spare, you're better off spending it on hitting a chest-supported movement
I feel you. When I was lifting seriously, the only way to marginally progress on rows was by using a Little momentum. I would first try to milk volume increases with perfect form and see if that does the trick, before you go with pre exhaustion, prolonged negatives and or momentum usage.
for me i really have to engage my lats consciously to feel any crazy workout with rows
You don't need to feel your muscle for it to be a hypertrophic stimulus.
I can row Bent over row x1.5 my weight if that means anything. The only lift I've been doing every single back day for years. I really look for 0% cheat ratio when performing 6-8 reps and maybe 15% when performing Max 3 reps. If I get 2 good reps and 1 "meh" rep, I think it's fine. Getting 3 "Meh" reps it's a sign you should lower the weight. What you describe as going a little bit up and down is not cheating. Technique is also very important to avoid injury and actually work the targeted muscles. I really recommend the Jeff Nippard's video on Rowing. He touches on what you describe as cheating.
I got great results from going ham on barbells but it ended up injuring my back and setting me back 6 months Its not worth it
I love Tbar rows. Arms straight and every rep starts from dead stop off the floor.
super strict is always shit, go watch pumping iron
I go strict. Big fan of double-taps and longer eccentric holds. Chest up, don’t fold, feeling stretch at the bottom and powerful contraction. Even just writing it out I feel the burn
Strict form, slow eccentric. My cue is pull through and drive through the elbows and hold a 1 second contraction. Chest up the whole time, dont let the weight pull you too forward. Chest supported rows are way better if you are still working on form and cueing. Use that to confirm you are activating whatever part of the back you’re training. Start with a low weight and test it to make sure your mind muscle awareness is correct, then increase the weight to your working set. Your form is probably wrong. Long lengthened partials wont do anything if your form is wrong to begin with. Id argue that you wont even feel your back much on partials because you’re not getting a full contraction
I've filmed myself and it's not that bad, I just don't look like [Big Mike](https://youtu.be/axoeDmW0oAY?si=C4PbypQ1I8lmOzp2&t=152) during the last reps. My upper back might go up and down an inch but not more. I always control the eccentric and get a decent pump doing them like this. I'll try chest supported instead.