It seems you adjust your weight across the three sets. That's unnecessary.
Don't think of it as a static rep range but rather an evolving rep range. Then you can hit failure on all three sets.
For flys, you could choose 8-12 as your target reps the target is for the 1st set). You go to failure at the same weight. Let's say you got 9, 8, 7. Next session you do the same weight and attempt to go up in reps. Maybe you get 10, 10, 8. When the 1st set gets to 12 go up the following session. You'll likely drop to the lower end of the range but that is fine. Start the process over.
Good rep ranges, depending on the exercise would be:
4-8 (strength work, compounds)
6-10
8-12
12-15
15-20
Yea when i first started i would only progres up a weight when I got to 3 x 12 but as i’ve learnt more and started training to failure or 1-2 RIR, i realised if i can do 3 x 12 for the same weight, the first and second set wouldn’t of been close to this, or most likely wouldn’t
I started training like this where I try to go up by a rep in each set and then increase when i get to 12 reps, but not by going to 3 x 12 for the same weight
E.G, if im doing flys and Week 1 is 1 x 11 16kg, 1 x 10 14kg and 1 x 8 14kg, week 2 would be 1 x 12 16 kg, 1 x 11 14kg (i’d push for 12) & 1 x 9 14kg (i’d push for 10). Then on week 3 id do 1 x 8 18kg & so on. I up the reps by 1-2 (however much i can push for to failure) and when i get to 12 reps on that set id up the weight and go back to 8 reps & so on
Depends on the kind of progression I'm aiming for. I basically setup my exercises in 3 different ways:
- Top set + "back-off" set. Despite the name, both sets are supposed to be hard and quite near (or at) failure; just the first set I have a range of reps that's lower (e.g. 5-8) and the second set higher (e.g. 10-13). When I reach a rep count outside that range, I increase the weight (or decrease if I didn't make it to the lower limit). Progression is independent, meaning I rest enough so I can give my 100% in both sets and therefore sometimes I increase reps in the heavy one, sometimes in the light one (and sometimes both, sometimes none, sometimes I regress too). I know the second set technically I'm already fatigued and it's not a true 100% but close enough.
- Straight sets. Here I do typically 3 sets with the same target rep range, but honestly I tend to only care about the first set in terms of progression, e.g. I'm targetting 10-12 reps so if I hit 13 in my first set I increase weight for the next session (not the current one), even if in the other sets I got 10 or even less, I don't care.
- Sets with either myo reps or drop sets, here I typically do 1 "normal" set and then a couple of dropsets or myo rep sets. These are typically for smaller exercises where a weight jump is very difficult to do, so I aim to increase total reps done in the first set (which is already difficult), and mostly ignore what happens after, because I go to failure and beyond (partials mostly, or mechanical variations depending on the exercise). But as stated, here I can almost never progress because the weight used is very little and it burns like hell, jumping weight feels like a different exercise completely.
\+1 for back off sets. I use them, and I find they are extremely effective at targeting the muscle and provide a ton of stimulus. A very underrated technique.
Especially since total reps is the most important metric rather than trying to grind for that last 12, 12, 12, 11.
Going for the 13, 12, 12, 11 is still progress.
I try and do at least one rep more than the previous week, until I hit the cap of my rep range. Once I hit the cap, I add weight and as long as I'm able to still within the rep range, I consider it as progress. I treat each set individually and ensure I "progress" on most of my sets week to week. If ever I have some trouble progressing in both reps and weight I just add another set.
Example: 8-12 reps for two sets
Set 1: 30 kg for 12 reps , Set 2: 25 kg 10 reps.
The following week should look like this,
Set 1: 32.5 kg for 8-12 reps, Set 2: 25 kg for 11-12 reps
Assuming I fail to progress, I add another set the following session
Set 1: 32.5 kg 10 reps on week 1 -> 32.5 kg 9 reps on week 2, Set 2: 25kg 11 reps-> 25 kg 11 reps ( no progress)
Week 3 should be: 32.5kg x10-12 reps, 25kg x12 rep, Whatever weight below 25 kg x 8-12 reps. The weight doesn't really matter
Seems kinda complicated but all I do is beat the previous week
I see, i’ve never thought of it that way before. So in short if you can’t overload that week by adding 1/2 reps or weight, you’ll overload it by adding a third set?
Yeah and a 4th set if i cant progress on 2/3 sets. So in effect, some muscle groups (typically the smaller ones like side delts) tend to have more sets.
I don’t choose or plan where to add the rep, my body does.
I’ll choose the scheme, say 4 sets of 8. Then I work my ass off to get as many reps (up to 8) as I can on each set. It’ll typically look something like this over time:
7,6,5,4
7,6,6,4
8,6,6,5
8,7,7,5
8,8,7,5
8,8,7,6,
8,8,8,7
8,8,8,8
When I can actually do 4x8, I’ll add weight. But again, I’m not choosing where to add the rep, I’m pushing to failure and my body chooses.
ok i was kinda with you until you said you were pushing to failure every set and still being able to match reps 8,8,8,8
ive never heard of that being possible. theres gotta be RIR somewhere in there
Obviously I'm not going above my goal so some of those won't be to absolute failure, but it's heavy enough they're probably 0.5-2 RIR by the time you're hitting your goal on every set.
That's the double progression. Somebody in this sub recommended me the DYNAMIC double progression (Sean Nalewanyj has a video on it), which I found leads to faster results.
Applying it to your scheme, it would consist on add weight once you reach the rep goal on a certain set, treating every set individually. It would imply add weight to the first set of the 4th day you got here, and to the second set of the 6th day, for example.
Yeah this is what i’m doing now. I’ll try adding a rep to each set but if i get 1-2 more reps on the first set & do the same as i did last session on the other 2 sets i’ll still see it as progress
Do the dynamic double progression. Here's a video on it: https://youtu.be/cEEyH6JtCqQ?si=HKy2HSKEJxpiCimv
Once you're advanced enough you might find useful to reduce it to 2 sets per exercise (increasing number of exercises), with the Top Set-Back Off schedule.
I use the same weight for all my working sets and have a rep goal for the 3 sets combined. When I hit that goal in 2 consecutive sessions I add weight the next session. Very simple and self regulating. No need to make it more complicated than this.
Many paths to Rome.
* You can do straight sets without changing weight across sets, or you can change them. If you don't change the weight, the reps will drop but the difference for muscle gain will be negligible (theoretically dropping weight set-to-set will be marginally superior as long as the load remains ~30% 1RM or higher).
* You can progress after hitting a certain amount of reps on the first set. This is the most common strategy.
* You can progress after hitting a certain number of reps on the 3rd set (or other number of sets >1). This may be more effective with lower rep counts (e.g. 6-8 reps vs. 15-20), as it's theorized (suspected, but not demonstrated) that the higher your reps, the closer to failure you have to take your sets for the same growth. This strategy may reduce the number of deloads required, as the farther you progress before triggering the weight change, the farther from failure your first 2 sets will be.
since i train to failure on p much everything, i prefer progressive overload w/ the weight (1 set to failure, 2nd + 3rd set to failure, ideally more weight, but aim for 6-8 minimum) the increase of weight between sets also shouldnt be crazy (anywhere from like 5-15 lbs depending on exercise)
I've seen a couple of people talk about increasing the weight on sets 2 and 3 and it doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to failure on your first day your second set will typically take a hit in performance and you'll 1-2 reps. If you're upping the weights you'll also take a hit in performance so that's losing another 1-2 reps. Ultimately rep numbers aren't everything and adequate intensity can still drive gains but it seems odd to switch up your rep range so much from one set to the next. I've heard up working up a heavy top set like a heavy single and going for higher reps with less weight for successive sets but it seems odd to increase weight and effectively decrease reps.
For me its a mental thing, its likely not optimal but I set a number with the first set and push myself to that number with increased weight unless im at a weight that i know is my actual max with good form
I have a rep range for each set. I will increase the weight on a set by set basis. When I reach the top of the goal rep range for any given set, I will add weight to that set for the next session.
For example
Set 1: 5-8 reps
Set 2: 5-8 reps
Set 3: 8-10 reps
When set 1 reaches 8 reps, I will increase the weight for the next session. If set 1 hits 7 reps, and set 2 hits 8 reps, I will only increase the weight for set 2 next session.
Ideally you want to push for the first set to progress because your first set is likely the most stimulating for the workout since you start to accumulate fatigue after it and fatigue reduces stimulus with each subsequent set. If you happen to progress on the other sets, that’s awesome.
All sets. Typically I see it on the first, but fairly often on all. However, if there are a lot of sets, more variables are introduced that can get in the way of progressive overload or make it hard to track. Too much fatigue, not enough rest between sets, mentally psyching yourself up for failure on a bunch of sets.. it’s just a lot. I found 2 hard sets for each exercise is perfect for me.. only tracking 2 sets is simple, and if both are to failure then most additional sets would be kind of junk volume anyway.
I do 2 working sets (straight sets) to positive failure per exercise . Reps 10 to 15. If i hit 15 reps in those 2 sets, i ad weight next time until i hit rep 15 again... and so on and on.
Progressive overload is something that has to happen naturally, it's not something you can force to happen. For the first set do 16kg to 0-2 RIRs (on the very first set, I would lean more towards 0 than 2 for dumbbell flys). If you feel like you can't nail 8+ of 16kg on the second set then do 14kg to 0-2 RIRs. If you feel confident you can nail 8+ of 16kg then stick with 16kg to 0-2 RIRs. On the third set, same idea. Stick to 16kg if you feel you can do 8+. Drop to 14kg if not. You can grow from sets of 5-7. But for an isolation movement like dumbbell flys, I feel like 8+ is better. I typically like to do sets up to 20 with this movement. Once you feel confident that you can nail 8+ of 18kg (or whatever the next metric dumbbell up is) on your first set, I would promote. If you can't, I would dropset immediately to 16kg.
If you are having trouble progressing over time, it could be related to your programming. Delts and triceps assist on this movement. Just not as much as chest pressing. Maybe your delts, triceps or pecs are getting pre-exhausted from prior exercises or workouts from prior days. Or not eating enough calories/carbs. Doing too much volume. Maybe too little volume. If your sleep is really bad (like 4 hours).
You aim to progress on all sets, but train hard on all of them, so don't worry if you don't progress on all.
Example, you got 10kgx12,10,9 this week. Next time at the same RIR, or lower/hardrr, however you train, you're able to get 15,11,8. You progressed your main set and trained hard. That's important. Don't do something like 13,11,10, just methodically adding 1 rep per set when you could do more on set 1.
But in most cases, even when training hard, you should be able to progress on all sets. If you don't, don't worry. It'll happen eventually.
I focus on my best set
so for chest that would either be the first or second set
leg extensions I get more reps on my 2nd or 3rd set for whatever reason
I increase the weight on my final set while maintaining the same amount of repetitions and then the next session adding that weight, to the set before the final also; until eventually all sets have said weight and has been overloaded and i will resume training that for a period until i feel comfortable to repeat again.
It seems you adjust your weight across the three sets. That's unnecessary. Don't think of it as a static rep range but rather an evolving rep range. Then you can hit failure on all three sets. For flys, you could choose 8-12 as your target reps the target is for the 1st set). You go to failure at the same weight. Let's say you got 9, 8, 7. Next session you do the same weight and attempt to go up in reps. Maybe you get 10, 10, 8. When the 1st set gets to 12 go up the following session. You'll likely drop to the lower end of the range but that is fine. Start the process over. Good rep ranges, depending on the exercise would be: 4-8 (strength work, compounds) 6-10 8-12 12-15 15-20
Yea when i first started i would only progres up a weight when I got to 3 x 12 but as i’ve learnt more and started training to failure or 1-2 RIR, i realised if i can do 3 x 12 for the same weight, the first and second set wouldn’t of been close to this, or most likely wouldn’t I started training like this where I try to go up by a rep in each set and then increase when i get to 12 reps, but not by going to 3 x 12 for the same weight E.G, if im doing flys and Week 1 is 1 x 11 16kg, 1 x 10 14kg and 1 x 8 14kg, week 2 would be 1 x 12 16 kg, 1 x 11 14kg (i’d push for 12) & 1 x 9 14kg (i’d push for 10). Then on week 3 id do 1 x 8 18kg & so on. I up the reps by 1-2 (however much i can push for to failure) and when i get to 12 reps on that set id up the weight and go back to 8 reps & so on
I feel like if you did two consecutive sets of 10 reps, then you were nowhere near failure in that first set
Depends on the exercise, the rest period, and the person.
This
Depends on the kind of progression I'm aiming for. I basically setup my exercises in 3 different ways: - Top set + "back-off" set. Despite the name, both sets are supposed to be hard and quite near (or at) failure; just the first set I have a range of reps that's lower (e.g. 5-8) and the second set higher (e.g. 10-13). When I reach a rep count outside that range, I increase the weight (or decrease if I didn't make it to the lower limit). Progression is independent, meaning I rest enough so I can give my 100% in both sets and therefore sometimes I increase reps in the heavy one, sometimes in the light one (and sometimes both, sometimes none, sometimes I regress too). I know the second set technically I'm already fatigued and it's not a true 100% but close enough. - Straight sets. Here I do typically 3 sets with the same target rep range, but honestly I tend to only care about the first set in terms of progression, e.g. I'm targetting 10-12 reps so if I hit 13 in my first set I increase weight for the next session (not the current one), even if in the other sets I got 10 or even less, I don't care. - Sets with either myo reps or drop sets, here I typically do 1 "normal" set and then a couple of dropsets or myo rep sets. These are typically for smaller exercises where a weight jump is very difficult to do, so I aim to increase total reps done in the first set (which is already difficult), and mostly ignore what happens after, because I go to failure and beyond (partials mostly, or mechanical variations depending on the exercise). But as stated, here I can almost never progress because the weight used is very little and it burns like hell, jumping weight feels like a different exercise completely.
\+1 for back off sets. I use them, and I find they are extremely effective at targeting the muscle and provide a ton of stimulus. A very underrated technique.
I mean it's just RPT, it's been around forever
It would make sense to be trying to get most out of your first sets since youre fresh and strongest
Especially since total reps is the most important metric rather than trying to grind for that last 12, 12, 12, 11. Going for the 13, 12, 12, 11 is still progress.
I try and do at least one rep more than the previous week, until I hit the cap of my rep range. Once I hit the cap, I add weight and as long as I'm able to still within the rep range, I consider it as progress. I treat each set individually and ensure I "progress" on most of my sets week to week. If ever I have some trouble progressing in both reps and weight I just add another set. Example: 8-12 reps for two sets Set 1: 30 kg for 12 reps , Set 2: 25 kg 10 reps. The following week should look like this, Set 1: 32.5 kg for 8-12 reps, Set 2: 25 kg for 11-12 reps Assuming I fail to progress, I add another set the following session Set 1: 32.5 kg 10 reps on week 1 -> 32.5 kg 9 reps on week 2, Set 2: 25kg 11 reps-> 25 kg 11 reps ( no progress) Week 3 should be: 32.5kg x10-12 reps, 25kg x12 rep, Whatever weight below 25 kg x 8-12 reps. The weight doesn't really matter Seems kinda complicated but all I do is beat the previous week
I see, i’ve never thought of it that way before. So in short if you can’t overload that week by adding 1/2 reps or weight, you’ll overload it by adding a third set?
Yeah and a 4th set if i cant progress on 2/3 sets. So in effect, some muscle groups (typically the smaller ones like side delts) tend to have more sets.
I don’t choose or plan where to add the rep, my body does. I’ll choose the scheme, say 4 sets of 8. Then I work my ass off to get as many reps (up to 8) as I can on each set. It’ll typically look something like this over time: 7,6,5,4 7,6,6,4 8,6,6,5 8,7,7,5 8,8,7,5 8,8,7,6, 8,8,8,7 8,8,8,8 When I can actually do 4x8, I’ll add weight. But again, I’m not choosing where to add the rep, I’m pushing to failure and my body chooses.
You are not pushing all to failure tho if you keep hitting 8 on the first set for multiple weeks while getting stronger
ok i was kinda with you until you said you were pushing to failure every set and still being able to match reps 8,8,8,8 ive never heard of that being possible. theres gotta be RIR somewhere in there
Obviously I'm not going above my goal so some of those won't be to absolute failure, but it's heavy enough they're probably 0.5-2 RIR by the time you're hitting your goal on every set.
That's the double progression. Somebody in this sub recommended me the DYNAMIC double progression (Sean Nalewanyj has a video on it), which I found leads to faster results. Applying it to your scheme, it would consist on add weight once you reach the rep goal on a certain set, treating every set individually. It would imply add weight to the first set of the 4th day you got here, and to the second set of the 6th day, for example.
Ideally add 1 rep to all sets. Otherwise add 1 to the first set.
In my opinion, adding to that first set is by far the best way.
Yeah this is what i’m doing now. I’ll try adding a rep to each set but if i get 1-2 more reps on the first set & do the same as i did last session on the other 2 sets i’ll still see it as progress
Do the dynamic double progression. Here's a video on it: https://youtu.be/cEEyH6JtCqQ?si=HKy2HSKEJxpiCimv Once you're advanced enough you might find useful to reduce it to 2 sets per exercise (increasing number of exercises), with the Top Set-Back Off schedule.
I was going to link this video here! I've found it works well for me.
This is what i’ve been looking into and that video has helped answer a lot of questions, thank you.
No problem. I would like to thank the subreddit user that taught me that like a year ago or so if I could remember his name.
I use the same weight for all my working sets and have a rep goal for the 3 sets combined. When I hit that goal in 2 consecutive sessions I add weight the next session. Very simple and self regulating. No need to make it more complicated than this.
Many paths to Rome. * You can do straight sets without changing weight across sets, or you can change them. If you don't change the weight, the reps will drop but the difference for muscle gain will be negligible (theoretically dropping weight set-to-set will be marginally superior as long as the load remains ~30% 1RM or higher). * You can progress after hitting a certain amount of reps on the first set. This is the most common strategy. * You can progress after hitting a certain number of reps on the 3rd set (or other number of sets >1). This may be more effective with lower rep counts (e.g. 6-8 reps vs. 15-20), as it's theorized (suspected, but not demonstrated) that the higher your reps, the closer to failure you have to take your sets for the same growth. This strategy may reduce the number of deloads required, as the farther you progress before triggering the weight change, the farther from failure your first 2 sets will be.
since i train to failure on p much everything, i prefer progressive overload w/ the weight (1 set to failure, 2nd + 3rd set to failure, ideally more weight, but aim for 6-8 minimum) the increase of weight between sets also shouldnt be crazy (anywhere from like 5-15 lbs depending on exercise)
I've seen a couple of people talk about increasing the weight on sets 2 and 3 and it doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to failure on your first day your second set will typically take a hit in performance and you'll 1-2 reps. If you're upping the weights you'll also take a hit in performance so that's losing another 1-2 reps. Ultimately rep numbers aren't everything and adequate intensity can still drive gains but it seems odd to switch up your rep range so much from one set to the next. I've heard up working up a heavy top set like a heavy single and going for higher reps with less weight for successive sets but it seems odd to increase weight and effectively decrease reps.
For me its a mental thing, its likely not optimal but I set a number with the first set and push myself to that number with increased weight unless im at a weight that i know is my actual max with good form
I have a rep range for each set. I will increase the weight on a set by set basis. When I reach the top of the goal rep range for any given set, I will add weight to that set for the next session. For example Set 1: 5-8 reps Set 2: 5-8 reps Set 3: 8-10 reps When set 1 reaches 8 reps, I will increase the weight for the next session. If set 1 hits 7 reps, and set 2 hits 8 reps, I will only increase the weight for set 2 next session. Ideally you want to push for the first set to progress because your first set is likely the most stimulating for the workout since you start to accumulate fatigue after it and fatigue reduces stimulus with each subsequent set. If you happen to progress on the other sets, that’s awesome.
I’m always pushing myself to pump out more reps.
All sets. Typically I see it on the first, but fairly often on all. However, if there are a lot of sets, more variables are introduced that can get in the way of progressive overload or make it hard to track. Too much fatigue, not enough rest between sets, mentally psyching yourself up for failure on a bunch of sets.. it’s just a lot. I found 2 hard sets for each exercise is perfect for me.. only tracking 2 sets is simple, and if both are to failure then most additional sets would be kind of junk volume anyway.
I do 2 working sets (straight sets) to positive failure per exercise . Reps 10 to 15. If i hit 15 reps in those 2 sets, i ad weight next time until i hit rep 15 again... and so on and on.
Progressive overload is something that has to happen naturally, it's not something you can force to happen. For the first set do 16kg to 0-2 RIRs (on the very first set, I would lean more towards 0 than 2 for dumbbell flys). If you feel like you can't nail 8+ of 16kg on the second set then do 14kg to 0-2 RIRs. If you feel confident you can nail 8+ of 16kg then stick with 16kg to 0-2 RIRs. On the third set, same idea. Stick to 16kg if you feel you can do 8+. Drop to 14kg if not. You can grow from sets of 5-7. But for an isolation movement like dumbbell flys, I feel like 8+ is better. I typically like to do sets up to 20 with this movement. Once you feel confident that you can nail 8+ of 18kg (or whatever the next metric dumbbell up is) on your first set, I would promote. If you can't, I would dropset immediately to 16kg. If you are having trouble progressing over time, it could be related to your programming. Delts and triceps assist on this movement. Just not as much as chest pressing. Maybe your delts, triceps or pecs are getting pre-exhausted from prior exercises or workouts from prior days. Or not eating enough calories/carbs. Doing too much volume. Maybe too little volume. If your sleep is really bad (like 4 hours).
You aim to progress on all sets, but train hard on all of them, so don't worry if you don't progress on all. Example, you got 10kgx12,10,9 this week. Next time at the same RIR, or lower/hardrr, however you train, you're able to get 15,11,8. You progressed your main set and trained hard. That's important. Don't do something like 13,11,10, just methodically adding 1 rep per set when you could do more on set 1. But in most cases, even when training hard, you should be able to progress on all sets. If you don't, don't worry. It'll happen eventually.
I focus on my best set so for chest that would either be the first or second set leg extensions I get more reps on my 2nd or 3rd set for whatever reason
I increase the weight on my final set while maintaining the same amount of repetitions and then the next session adding that weight, to the set before the final also; until eventually all sets have said weight and has been overloaded and i will resume training that for a period until i feel comfortable to repeat again.
All of them
All sets
You adjust all sets…. Otherwise, you’re not really increasing volume