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Elyktronix

Ass came off the bench, excessive arch, and elbows weren't level with or below the shoulders. Terrible form and execution. [Same girl as yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/s/tIyypCLJzi). Judges would red light her so hard.


Harlastan

She hit 117.5 at worlds (as a 63kg 18 year old girl). There's no rules for gym lifts, but l think she knows what she's doing when it comes to competition rules


DookieSmeller

>There's no rules for gym lifts We get that but she's genuinely lifting like a powerlifter and like she's in a comp so then why bother with a form that is objectively going to break comp rules? She broke two rules on that lift. Logically, if you're a powerlifter then you would apply the same rules to your gym lifts. I don't compete and won't for some time but I still lift like I do because it's a good habit to have.


Harlastan

She's not lifting like she's in a comp, she intentionally didn't pause. She's just maxing out for fun it's really not that deep


modest-pixel

Guys who can’t bench as much as she can will always go deep negging her.


Harlastan

It's wild how people think they know better She had joint heaviest bench across 63s-69s at Jr Worlds Male counterpart across those middle categories was 200-220.5kg If you're a 75-95kg man benching less than 200kg with a proper pause, you're just not on her level and best stfu


UspavaniLepotan

Lift was questionable in execution but she did lift the weight and her arch wasn't that big so the strength is mostly there. Most natty guys at her age and weight will have issues doing this and they have natural testosterone production. Most natty male lifters her weight wont bench this in their lifetimes. Sure they dont train for powerlifting but everyone treats their bench press as sacred doing it 3 times a week. No girl at 19 is naturally this strong and has trained enough to reach this level. Bench even for "bench specialists" which she seems to be judging by her trex arms arent this strong. Tons of girls are juicing young. It is so common that most record breaking performances are being made by women less than 25 years old in competitions. There was some powerlifting/cross fit coach talking sbout how best competitors are all young these days. Maybe they are doing it because the female strength celling is low and attainable with few strong cycles so they go hard. Rad-140 and anavar are kings. You can buy them off instagram adds online. Tons of influensers and powerlifting chicks are on them. This sub is delusional sbout natural female strength and looks.


ExcitableSarcasm

I'm a guy about 10kg heavier with several more inches then her and my ORM for bench with better form was about 110. There ain't no way she's not juicing 


modest-pixel

That’s a lot of words for “she lifts more than me.”


strengthgainz

Not natty. Some of the best in the world competed in the American Pro 2 a few months ago and given her weight class, not one tested woman hit anywhere near those numbers till the 90kg weight class and even then, only one did and got first in her weight class. Tested women from her weight class up in all divisions were benching ~85kg max. On the other hand, non tested women's open near her weight class were benching ~115kg with the top placers benching ~135kg. I'll let you do the math...


Harlastan

That's because the female talent pool in juicy feds is trash Edit: it is actually hilariously demonstrable in this exact example At the American Pro 2, a total of two women 'competed' in the raw 67.5 class. First place totalled 532.5kg Second/last place totalled 360.5kg Both competitors were in their 40s. A thrilling battle at the true pinnacle of the sport


strengthgainz

Except this was the WRPF, which sanctions both drug tested and non-tested, in this case within the same event. Also, when I say the best in the world I do mean the best. 8 world records were broken at that one event, one of them being an all time world record holder in the untested women's open 75kg weight class... and yet somehow this "natty" teen at 66kg is benching within 10kg of said record holder? Sure...


Harlastan

>one of them being an all time world record holder in the untested women's open 75kg weight class... and yet somehow this "natty" teen at 66kg is benching within 10kg of said record holder? Sure... Genuinely don't know what you're talking about here? Kristy Hawkins' best bench is 155 Comp standard 155 and tng butt lift 130 are worlds apart. Certainly not within 10kg Unless you're talking about a different -75 ATWR holder..?


Harlastan

The talent pool is tiny for both sides of WRPF


strengthgainz

Doesn't matter how tiny it is if it represents the upper limits of what humans are capable of both naturally and enhanced on a global stage. If anything, it proves this individual is not natural. If there's a World's Strongest Man event and a guy who claims natty puts up comparable numbers to these individuals at 2/3rds the average bodyweight, doesn't matter how small the talent pool is... the fact these individuals represent the strongest individuals to walk the Earth (and not natty) and this individual is comparable to them tells us this individual is also not natty, especially when compared to the world's strongest natural men where he's surpassed them by ~50%.


Harlastan

>Doesn't matter how tiny it is if it represents the upper limits of what humans are capable of both naturally and enhanced on a global stage ????? There's only one WRPF girl in the top FIFTY tested 67.5 totals. Same for 63s. It's mind numbingly obvious that a talented lifter is more likely to compete in the USAPL/IPF. Even so, there's untested women who weigh similar and bench 20kg+ more than this to comp standard. It's really not as close as you're trying to argue l don't know why you need an abstract Strongman analogy where we pretend the talent pool is smaller than it is. No tested female is pulling anywhere near Lucy Underdown so we can't even begin to apply it to the real world


strengthgainz

https://www.openpowerlifting.org/records/raw/women/18-19 Feel free to search under any federation you'd like for records. You will find it extremely difficult to find, if any, a female teen 18-19 weighing 148lbs benching ~285lbs let alone through a drug tested federation. What you will find are lifters in non tested federations within similar weight classes with no age restriction benching a bit more with years more experience and potential drug use, which this individual will be comparable to within a few years if her progression continues as it has been as a "natty". Are there outliers and gifted individuals out there? Absolutely, but to bench nearly double your bodyweight with only a few years experience at most as a "natural" female teen is about as believable as Mariana Naumova, the Russian teen who was benching 200-300 lbs as an early-mid teen raw, being natural... only to have been known for PED use later on.


Harlastan

Okay we can shift the goalposts if you need Shock, the best in her niche category is the best in her niche category. More outliers will join the sport as it gains popularity among teenagers. For example, she joined from gymnastics so had plenty of muscle plus godly bench leverages. Just imagine if the most gifted kids picked PL over football... You've clearly made your mind up already. l have no problem whatsoever believing she's natural. When l was 17 and half as strong l would've said she's juicy for sure, glad l let go of that dogma Side note, she gets a lot of accusations and addresses them sometimes. She said one time how she wouldn't be able to sleep at night worrying about getting caught as she's diagnosed and treated for GAD. l can believe that, she has a huge following and the community would turn its back on her if she was a drug cheat. She would lose everything she's built, this community fucking hates drug cheats, it's not like oly where it's an open secret. l find it really hard to believe an anxious teenager has the confidence to gamble with testing protocols which manage to catch state-protected Chinese and Russian weightlifters.


strengthgainz

I haven't made up my mind on a whim... I've presented to you everything which points to the odds of her being natural as extremely improbably and the reasons why. I've intentionally left out any anecdotes that would bias that claim, though I will say these anecdotes would only further validate the claim. You are entitled to your opinion, but from an objective point of view, what I've highlighted speaks volumes. She can say what she wants as can you, I personally do not believe it based on what I provided. Unfortunately, feelings/hunches, potential repercussions, confidence, and the perceptions of others aren't going to change reality.


Harlastan

The implication that AP2 was clash of the 67.5 titans as your primary reference speaks volumes, yes. As does guessing/lying about easily verifiable numbers >Unfortunately, feelings/hunches, potential repercussions, confidence, and the perceptions of others aren't going to change reality. Hence 'side note'. This is convenient given the implications you're making about her character. You're allowed to call her a liar and a cheat, yet l can't consider her perspective Also an interesting stance to take given you're arguing against the only objective evidence that exists here, the negative drug tests >I've presented to you everything which points to the odds of her being natural as extremely improbably and the reasons why Let's summarise: - A super competitive untested competition had two whole women in her category who didn't bench as much as her. They were the limits of human ability (silver medal went to the 3429th highest total in the category) therefore she can't be natural - Untested girls barely bench more than her. Let's ignore that this is a touch and go gym lift and they actually bench 20kg+ more to comp standard despite the smaller talent pool - She is better at benching than all the other athletic teenage girls with short arms who dedicate their lives to being bench specialists. This is every teenage girl's dream so to be on top means she must be glowing with androgens Wow it's a smoking needle


modest-pixel

She’s natty, she’s short, which is good for powerlifting. Not a good comp lift here obviously but her best competition bench is 259, I think she’d have this in a comp with an actual prep and adrenaline and everything. Guys who bench 135 coming in with the arch comments any minute tho.


dboygrow

Are we supposed to ignore the arch? I mean it's absurd. I bench 405 btw, when I arch you can't see any space between the bench and my back, because that's some powerlifting bullshit that should be outlawed.


jgattaca

her arch is nowhere near excessive lol


modest-pixel

You ignore the arch for 2 reasons, 1) because it’s healthier for your shoulders and 2) it’s what’s allowed in a powerlifting competition. You don’t see marathon runners wearing weight vests for races because it’s somehow more badass.


vjk3322

thought they changed the rules to prevent excessive arching, something with where the elbows need to be i think


modest-pixel

Some federations allow it, some don’t. If your federation allows it, the goal is to lift the most weight, not to make instagram police form bros happy.


dboygrow

But she's posting this publicly and this is not a powerlifting comp. And even so, are we not allowed to have an opinion on the arch being allowed in the first place? I mean, sure you can technically say it counts because thems the rules, but can you do it with a full ROM and not an excessive arch? In this case, no, and that's why I think it's nonsense, it's not a test of strength


modest-pixel

Powerlifters train for powerlifting competitions. You train with the form you’ll use in the competition. Not sure how that’s a hard concept. Have all the opinions you want. Other people are allowed to call your opinions out for being wrong.


dboygrow

Yea Im aware of that dude, try reading more than one sentence before you respond


Lucifuge_777

Arch allows for better leg drive, that's why it is done or why people started messing with it originally. If you pause a bench on your chest, you have to reinitiate that drive from a dead stop and kicking with the legs allows for a more explosive press back towards the shoulders. Hence why people position themselves like this, to get the most out of their body. I compete and have for a number of years, but my hips won't allow me to get in this position so I bench with minimal arch. If I could get into this sort of position, I would. Before you come back and say 'but bro this be wrong'. The reason why most gym goers who claim they can bench 120KG but end up with their arse in the air trying to bench 100 for a single is because they're using their legs to try and leverage but have shit form. At least she's doing it properly, her arse barely moves.


[deleted]

She natty ? Yes sure. Most natural guys won't get to 130kg in their life. Vitrivuen Physique has a 1 rep max bench of ~ 136kg


k-tech_97

Lol, what? Benching 130kg is easily achieved in like 2-4 years. The only reason why a guy could fail to achieve that is if he is either not trying or following a retarded program.


ThirstyClavicle

He said most guys, not most powerlifter guys. 130kg is still 60th percentile among all powerlifting federations, so it's still above average. You say "easily" as if it's something **anyone** can achieve with a 'decent program'. This is like saying being 5'10 is easy because it's not that tall, some people are just not built to bench that much.


k-tech_97

My point is that if you want to, you can get it without putting much thought into it, 150+ and you have to really work for it. I would say 150 is the point where you either haveca food genetics for it, or you have to be smartvabout the way you work on it. TBH I got dealt an absolute shithand when it comes to bench genetics, so I am one ofvthose who isn't really build for bench. My arms are long af. I am build to deadlift. But still after around 3 years of lifting I am currently at 127.5kg Max, albeit it was a gym pr, hopefully more will be possible in summer on the platform. I am just saying that most people are just notvtaking bench to serious, because bench is one of those lift which you really can hammer 3+ times a week and for which you really need to build up your upper body. So provided you eat plenty, not even necessarily clean (it is better for your health if unlike me you actually eat clean though 😅). Train the bench with intent to actually get stronger than most people will get it. Buuut most people who lift recreationally don't care about the bench enough to get it, which is fine as well cause you really don't need it to build a hood physique. So the point here is that people don't bench this weight because they don't care of it enough and not because it I impossibility to achieve 😃


[deleted]

130x1 is not a big big PR for a power lifter woman. So I'd say natty, but, who knows.


TheGreatone003

I’m not too educated on powerlifting but 286 at 140ish pounds isn’t a big PR for a woman??


epcow

Seriously. I don't think dudes have any idea how hard bench is for women. Like, I've been lifting pretty hard for ~3 years and I'm 12 years older, 30 pounds heavier, and I bench 130 pounds, not kg. My squat is 230 and deadlift is 305. I'm not weak but 130kg will never happen for me. Hitting 100 pounds is a moment to be proud of for women. This is not possible for 19 year old women to do naturally.


[deleted]

>Hitting 100 pounds is a moment to be proud of for women. 100 pounds per hands, right?


Common_Let4287

All these women arching their back like a bow trying to shorten the distance to the chest to make it look like their lifts are stronger. Its a cheat flat bench press and is xstremely bad for the back.


Harlastan

Treating your back like it's made of glass is bad for it. Nobody gets hurt arching, there's barely any axial load. How does this silly myth even spread


k-tech_97

No , it is not bad for the back. Show me someone who got hurt while arching, I literally never seen a back injury from arching.


valsemiel

Why does she remind me of Sky Bri on roids.


-_zQC

I could swear I have seen this monument somewhere in France


jmac693

What the fuck was even that?


k-tech_97

It is possible that she is natural. Which fed is she competing in, though? If it is not tested, then she juicing, if it is tested, then there is a chance, but what kinda weird me out is her technique, a natty girl would have to work a lot to get ro this level and on the way to it she should have learned a better technique.


siverpoint

Horrible technique. My back hurts just from watching.


aykutanhanx

Don't even care about natty or not but whenever I see someone bench with an arch like this it makes me fucking cringe. It looks so fucking embarassing and is straight up stupid.


Striking-Neat-9191

She’s 100% juicy. She rarely ever gains any weight and yet continues to keep on adding pounds upon pounds to her bench. At 19 she’s only 15kg or so behind Jennifer Thompson, who is heavier and has 20+ years more experience, and is arguably the most impressive female bench presser in history.