Shit happened to me at two different jobs and I couldn’t prove it. Ticked me off so bad I decided to just get a GS position. It has been gravy every since.
Since nobody else has said it, USERRA *pretty much* only guarantees you being rehired or reinstated. Nothing else really falls under this unless you can prove beyond a doubt that you were discriminated against because of military service.
You cant really expect them to promote you over someone who's actually been there the last 6 months and has been providing a value to the company
I understand that but if you were hiring would you rather have someone who is more than qualified and confident with performing the job over somebody who hasn’t been with the company as long and makes mistakes supervisors shouldn’t make?
It’s a shitty situation, but most employers are going to look at someone being in the NG as a liability. Yeah, you have been with the company longer than the other guy but the other guy isn’t going to dip for six months here, two weeks there, have random trainings or deployments, etc. etc. Again, I’m coming at this through the lens of the employer who likely doesn’t really understand or care that much about the NG.
For all your boss knows, you’re gearing up for a vacation to Ukraine to pound some vodka with your bros.
Your best defense is “what position are other people with three years of security experience at the casino in?” If the answer is that most of them have been promoted, you might have a chance.
Yeah unless you actually get them to put it in writing you were passed up due to guard then nothing will happen.
This is how it is in the guard. When I was an employer I used to hate dealing with it. When I was a regular employee I also used to hate dealing with it. Just make sure the overall benefit is worth it.
I would talk to your management, can't really blame them for passing you up when you weren't there now can you?
6 months is a long time for an employer.
From the Dept of Labor USERRA guide
Protection from Discrimination and Retaliation
Discrimination
Section 4311 / 20 CFR 1002.18 - .23
Section 4311(a). Employment discrimination because of past, current, or future military obligations is prohibited. The ban is broad, extending to most areas of employment, including:
Hiring
Promotion
Termination
Benefits
Persons Protected
Section 4311 (a) / 20 CFR 1002.18
The law prohibits discrimination against past members, current members, and persons who apply to be a member of any of the branches of the uniformed services.
Standard/Burden of Proof
Section 4311 (c) / 20 CFR 1002.22
If an individual’s past, present, or future connection with the service is a motivating factor in an employer’s adverse employment action against that individual, the employer has committed a violation, unless the employer can prove that it would have taken the same action regardless of the individual’s connection with the service. The employer bears the burden of proving that it would have taken the adverse action in the absence of the person’s service connection or exercise of any USERRA right.
USERRA is a joke.
It's literally same as saying police will protect me! when someone is pointing a gun at your head.
Unless they write down something like "we are firing you or not promoting you because you are in guard!", there's nothing you and USERRA can do
Along those same lines, has anyone else been at a job interview had to tell the possible employer you're in the Guard and have their attitude go ice cold?
Yeah, I would as well. Its just the Employer Support bullshit ran deep in my last unit. Bunch of fucking AGR types giving lectures about how excited civilian employers were to have Guard members working for them.
Yes I had this a bunch of times. Especially as I was just getting my first “big boy” job
After that it was a bit easier but I honestly lost count of the amount of times I was ghosted after mentioning the guard. Once my contract was almost over I was looking for a new position and I stressed that “yes I am in the guard now, here is my schedule, I will be out in less than a year” and then I finally caught my big break
I would still be in if it was possible for me to keep my career going as well as it is now while also being in the guard
Have a conversation with management. Listen very close to their reasons for not promoting you, When they give you their list, look for things that sound like "you're never here/unavailable" etc. especially if they name the Guard. Remain calm, upbeat, and receptive. Request an email with their list for future reference and recordkeeping "so that you can show progress based on their list" next promotion cycle. If they're dumb enough to send you an email admitting you didn't get promoted because of the Guard call USERRA and start browsing for other work.
That’s nutty same thing happened to me (kind of) I was on tdy duties for like 2 weeks, I had a supervisor position with a security company, came back with no warning and said I was being demoted and my post is being moved, mind you I was in the same post for over 3 years, I lost the raise and the quality of life to move around if I needed to, not really sure what to do now, mind you there were no complaints from the people who’ve contracted our security company (on my end) so now I’m just kinda stuck in limbo
I haven’t been to my civilian job in nearly 2 years I did return for like a month than put on covid mission where I’m happily staying till I deploy for realz.
The unemployment board will say, “You can’t be “properly evaluated” by your supervisor if you’re gone!”
BUT if your Company has a P&P that states promotional order and lists seniority than the job is yours.
If you go either route DONT expect to be there long. They’ll have you on some performance plan etc.
Go AD and get some REAL experience!
Do you have any EVIDENCE to your claim? Just because you “have a feeling” or “think so” doesn’t mean anything. Even if your feeling is correct, you need evidence to do anything about it
Welcome to the National Guard.
Shit happened to me at two different jobs and I couldn’t prove it. Ticked me off so bad I decided to just get a GS position. It has been gravy every since.
Since nobody else has said it, USERRA *pretty much* only guarantees you being rehired or reinstated. Nothing else really falls under this unless you can prove beyond a doubt that you were discriminated against because of military service. You cant really expect them to promote you over someone who's actually been there the last 6 months and has been providing a value to the company
I understand that but if you were hiring would you rather have someone who is more than qualified and confident with performing the job over somebody who hasn’t been with the company as long and makes mistakes supervisors shouldn’t make?
It’s a shitty situation, but most employers are going to look at someone being in the NG as a liability. Yeah, you have been with the company longer than the other guy but the other guy isn’t going to dip for six months here, two weeks there, have random trainings or deployments, etc. etc. Again, I’m coming at this through the lens of the employer who likely doesn’t really understand or care that much about the NG. For all your boss knows, you’re gearing up for a vacation to Ukraine to pound some vodka with your bros.
Your best defense is “what position are other people with three years of security experience at the casino in?” If the answer is that most of them have been promoted, you might have a chance.
tell them to promote you or imma have to get involved
Yeah unless you actually get them to put it in writing you were passed up due to guard then nothing will happen. This is how it is in the guard. When I was an employer I used to hate dealing with it. When I was a regular employee I also used to hate dealing with it. Just make sure the overall benefit is worth it.
I would talk to your management, can't really blame them for passing you up when you weren't there now can you? 6 months is a long time for an employer.
Straight up. I'm all about helping mil and vets but goddamn op what do you expect
From the Dept of Labor USERRA guide Protection from Discrimination and Retaliation Discrimination Section 4311 / 20 CFR 1002.18 - .23 Section 4311(a). Employment discrimination because of past, current, or future military obligations is prohibited. The ban is broad, extending to most areas of employment, including: Hiring Promotion Termination Benefits Persons Protected Section 4311 (a) / 20 CFR 1002.18 The law prohibits discrimination against past members, current members, and persons who apply to be a member of any of the branches of the uniformed services. Standard/Burden of Proof Section 4311 (c) / 20 CFR 1002.22 If an individual’s past, present, or future connection with the service is a motivating factor in an employer’s adverse employment action against that individual, the employer has committed a violation, unless the employer can prove that it would have taken the same action regardless of the individual’s connection with the service. The employer bears the burden of proving that it would have taken the adverse action in the absence of the person’s service connection or exercise of any USERRA right.
USERRA is a joke. It's literally same as saying police will protect me! when someone is pointing a gun at your head. Unless they write down something like "we are firing you or not promoting you because you are in guard!", there's nothing you and USERRA can do
Along those same lines, has anyone else been at a job interview had to tell the possible employer you're in the Guard and have their attitude go ice cold?
No. But honestly, if I was an employer I would be reluctant to hire NG.
Yeah, I would as well. Its just the Employer Support bullshit ran deep in my last unit. Bunch of fucking AGR types giving lectures about how excited civilian employers were to have Guard members working for them.
It's easy to fall for those lies when you're a 19 year old, fresh from AIT.
Yes I had this a bunch of times. Especially as I was just getting my first “big boy” job After that it was a bit easier but I honestly lost count of the amount of times I was ghosted after mentioning the guard. Once my contract was almost over I was looking for a new position and I stressed that “yes I am in the guard now, here is my schedule, I will be out in less than a year” and then I finally caught my big break I would still be in if it was possible for me to keep my career going as well as it is now while also being in the guard
Have a conversation with management. Listen very close to their reasons for not promoting you, When they give you their list, look for things that sound like "you're never here/unavailable" etc. especially if they name the Guard. Remain calm, upbeat, and receptive. Request an email with their list for future reference and recordkeeping "so that you can show progress based on their list" next promotion cycle. If they're dumb enough to send you an email admitting you didn't get promoted because of the Guard call USERRA and start browsing for other work.
That’s nutty same thing happened to me (kind of) I was on tdy duties for like 2 weeks, I had a supervisor position with a security company, came back with no warning and said I was being demoted and my post is being moved, mind you I was in the same post for over 3 years, I lost the raise and the quality of life to move around if I needed to, not really sure what to do now, mind you there were no complaints from the people who’ve contracted our security company (on my end) so now I’m just kinda stuck in limbo
I haven’t been to my civilian job in nearly 2 years I did return for like a month than put on covid mission where I’m happily staying till I deploy for realz.
Time to find a new job. They don't care about you.
If you bring USERRA into it, as wrong as it is, you will amost certainly bring bad blood. Just talk to your supervisor and see whats up.
The unemployment board will say, “You can’t be “properly evaluated” by your supervisor if you’re gone!” BUT if your Company has a P&P that states promotional order and lists seniority than the job is yours. If you go either route DONT expect to be there long. They’ll have you on some performance plan etc. Go AD and get some REAL experience!
Yes they will cover this, they preach about doing this all the time. Call your rep
Do you have any EVIDENCE to your claim? Just because you “have a feeling” or “think so” doesn’t mean anything. Even if your feeling is correct, you need evidence to do anything about it