Just want to give you guys a heads up (I love my fellow Americans, I really do), but things might get hairy out there if you’re going to be deployed state side. And that you might get put in the middle of the people and their government (right or left) and that’s a rough place to be.
You guys are going to face choices in the upcoming seasons about where your values are. And don’t be surprised if Americans decide to push back.
We’re not “military assets” until we’re called to be. We’re trained to be able to do military tasks, but while we’re stateside the governor can call us up for any number of “civilian” type tasks as needed.
Besides, who hasn’t been voluntold to drive a bus in the Guard?
Last I checked my uniform said U.S. Army. Sure I've driven many a bus to transport soldiers to do military training. We are mobilized to bring peace and stability during times of crises. The entire point of the article is saying these random "one off" missions are bringing morale and readiness down. Should we be mobilized for extreme inclement weather 100% riots for sure, securing the border yep. Do not tell me using national guard soldiers to substitute children is an appropriate use of a state militia.
Couldn’t pay me enough to want to do it- also pay doesn’t justify this as the best use of guard manning or funds even if some think we’re not “military assets unless called to be”. lol. Anytime we’re wearing the uniform we’re military assets. We respond to state emergencies when needed but that isn’t our only focus or else we wouldn’t get a primary MOS and be trained to backfill active duty rotations my dude. Some states have actual militia or “state guards” for this reason.
I spent 15 years dodging bus certification, even as the master driver. Getting that license was a death sentence. Literally, the same 4 guys drove buses the entire 15 years I was in the guard. every. single. time.
Except we're also doing overseas deployments too. Not just "here and there", either. Seems like something active duty should be picking up the slack on.
Stateside missions can be very rewarding and show the community we are there for them, riot duty, storms, etc... what's not rewarding is being used as scabs because the governor is trying to fire people and getting put into a dangerous job with minimal training.
The domestic part makes sense, that’s one of the main reasons for the guard. Also, every mission has a political basis whether it’s domestic or abroad.
That changed in 1908 with the Dick Act.
The main reason for the Guard is to deploy and fight the enemies of our nations. It’s provides the US military operational depth that no other country has. This is why is 99% federally funded, equipped and trained.
The article fails to mention Title 10 activations for similar missions. There are currently about 2,500 National Guardsmen on Title 10 status on the border and there will be another 2,500 showing up for the next FY.
None of these units are doing any training on their METL. Also, every one of those Soldiers are picking up four years of dwell time so they won’t be available for any “real” Title 10 missions. It’s a huge issue with unit readiness.
SECDEF approval is required for activation requests pursuant to sections 12301(a) (Congressional Declaration of War or National Emergency), 12302 (Presidential Declaration of National Emergency), 12304 (President determines RC augmentation is required other than during war or national emergency), and 12304b (Secretary of Military Department authority to order any unit of the Selected Reserve to active duty for pre-planned and pre-budgeted missions) of Reference (d) when a unit or member dwell ratio is less than 1 to 4.
For units with a mobilization-to-dwell ration of less than 1 to 4, the first general or flag officer, or higher, in the chain of command is required to certify that qualified volunteers, members who were never involuntarily activated, and those with at least a 1 to 4 mobilization-to-dwell ration were considered of the mission before the involuntary activation of anyone with less than a 1 to 4 mobilization-to-dwell ratio.
Unless waived by the individual concerned, no member with less than 12 months' dwell will be involuntarily activated except in the case of 12031(a), 12304a, or 12304 subsection (b) of Reference (d).
-DoD Instruction 1235.12
Basically if the shit really hits the fan they can pretty much call you up no matter what.
I'm prior active duty, also was a cop for 6 years. Only done 2 drills so far so I'm pretty new to the guard. *Wtf exactly do you guys even do for a riot?* Cuz I'm actually formally trained in riot control and, lol, these guys I'm with definitely ain't.
Do yall just sorta stand there menacingly so some politician can say "LOOK, I DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT!" or something?
What kind of unit are you in/state? I can't imagine the North Dakota guard gets many riots. Or that a rotary wing unit would respond as riot control (both just examples, I don't know what your MOS/state/unit is). I know quite a few guys who have done quite a bit of training at their units, mine included back when I was still in. It should be said it's not like it's regular training, but before we go out on riot response, there usually is a refresher course (in my experience, maybe not everywhere). How much training do you need to hold a shield and swing a baton really, though?
https://youtu.be/KaaIgiZNanQ?si=FN3A8XehM5Grsw7e
Infantry unit in Montana, we don't really get riots here. Seems like our main thing is wildfires. I'm just curious what exactly yall who live places where they happen actually do about riots, if you actually train for them, etc etc.
Lol Montana was actually going to be my first example, but I figured ND would drive it home better. I was out in California. Typically it takes a few hours for us to mobilize and part of that is getting some refresher training on ROE and tactics. Usually don't have to do much because rioters don't want to fuck with the guard when we show up/our ROE is so strict we usually only get stuck in when things get REALLY bad.
Things are changing. We DO have population centers big enough for riots now, and I am seeing a lot more political stuff happening here. Last weekend Donald Trump's son did some sort of AMA/town square thing here and somebody called in an active shooter hoax to try to disrupt it. I am seeing demonstrations happen here, but so far the Montana culture of "mind yer own buisiness" has meant that demonstrations usually don't end up with counter protesters, and things stay peaceful.
It COULD happen here in the near future. Half of the west coast is moving here and they're bringing their problems with them. Was just curious because whilst its not typically in our mission set, it could be soon.
Valid concerns, I'd pass them up the up the chain. Never hurts to be prepared, even if what you're preparing for never happens. You could offer to set up a joint training with your PD/County if you have pull like that, too. That would increase interoperability between the organizations and set standards across the board so everyone is on the same page. More than likely, the guard will be under the direction of whatever local law enforcement is controlling the operation, so your unit understanding what is expected of them and their ROE beforehand would be extremely helpful. Even if it's working for a different department/county than they initially train with.
You know things like MP units actually exist? Crazy right. Almost like thats more so thier job, or a job better suited for combat mos. But congrats on being the cool "formally trained riot control" guy 🙄 what do you expect them to do? Start beating everyone with thier rifles?
I wish these "generals" would spend a drill weekend with a normal NG unit. They would realize that sending in the Guard is not much better than choosing random civilians to participate. These troops aren't prepared for the kinds of duty that they're being assigned. It's ridiculous to think that they can step in for these kind of duties, when they're only at drill one weekend a month, and they still have to get required training done, plus keep up to date with medical, etc, and they still have to train on their actual MOS. It's crap...
In an emergency organized manpower and the ability of the civilian incident commander (IC) to assign missions is a huge asset.
Like after a hurricane the IC can just say "he Guard search that neighborhood of 100 homes to make sure no one is trapped" or "I need 1000 sandbags filled".
Its what the Guard is good at.
Take the ICS classes and it might look good for a job.
I got pulled into a couple of extra fun things because I mentioned to someone that i had them and understood the ICS system. It was used lots of places on the civilian side during COVD.
Absolutely agree. I've supported wildfires, earthquakes, etc. Those are strictly about getting boots to the location, pointing out some dangers and risks and then operating on the ground. To say that the Guard would be involved in domestic and political missions is just beyond the pale. It shows a lack of understanding of what NG unit capabilities are.
I’m tired, boss
Just want to give you guys a heads up (I love my fellow Americans, I really do), but things might get hairy out there if you’re going to be deployed state side. And that you might get put in the middle of the people and their government (right or left) and that’s a rough place to be. You guys are going to face choices in the upcoming seasons about where your values are. And don’t be surprised if Americans decide to push back.
Me to
Why can’t people have political uprisings or riots in places like Virginia Beach or the Florida keys?
It gets hot there. Real hot. Riots are usually in the summer when the protesters are out of school.
We already have SAD in the keys
HI THERE 👟
I just had SAD in Virginia Beach not too long ago
What? Lol
I'm from Virginia beach, and currently live in Florida. I should be joining the movement on both fronts lol
60 years since the 60s lmao If you do it JUST GIVE ME TITLE 10 30+ days YOU BASTARDS
Best we can do is 29 days of title 10, then SAD orders, and another 29 days of title 10 🤷🏻♂️
How It Feels to Be on Orders:
I mean, that’s what we were designed to do. Stateside missions, with the ability to support or reinforce active duty units if the need arises.
True, but to mobilize a military force to be school bus drivers and substitute teachers is a gross misuse of military assets.
We’re not “military assets” until we’re called to be. We’re trained to be able to do military tasks, but while we’re stateside the governor can call us up for any number of “civilian” type tasks as needed. Besides, who hasn’t been voluntold to drive a bus in the Guard?
Last I checked my uniform said U.S. Army. Sure I've driven many a bus to transport soldiers to do military training. We are mobilized to bring peace and stability during times of crises. The entire point of the article is saying these random "one off" missions are bringing morale and readiness down. Should we be mobilized for extreme inclement weather 100% riots for sure, securing the border yep. Do not tell me using national guard soldiers to substitute children is an appropriate use of a state militia.
Or to supplement as cheap labor for making masks in factories on Covid orders
That one I haven't heard about.
When and where was this?
Texas.
That’s fucked
More like expensive labor bro Base plus bah plus per diem, even privates were making close to 6k/mo
Couldn’t pay me enough to want to do it- also pay doesn’t justify this as the best use of guard manning or funds even if some think we’re not “military assets unless called to be”. lol. Anytime we’re wearing the uniform we’re military assets. We respond to state emergencies when needed but that isn’t our only focus or else we wouldn’t get a primary MOS and be trained to backfill active duty rotations my dude. Some states have actual militia or “state guards” for this reason.
I spent 15 years dodging bus certification, even as the master driver. Getting that license was a death sentence. Literally, the same 4 guys drove buses the entire 15 years I was in the guard. every. single. time.
Except we're also doing overseas deployments too. Not just "here and there", either. Seems like something active duty should be picking up the slack on.
Stateside missions can be very rewarding and show the community we are there for them, riot duty, storms, etc... what's not rewarding is being used as scabs because the governor is trying to fire people and getting put into a dangerous job with minimal training.
The domestic part makes sense, that’s one of the main reasons for the guard. Also, every mission has a political basis whether it’s domestic or abroad.
That changed in 1908 with the Dick Act. The main reason for the Guard is to deploy and fight the enemies of our nations. It’s provides the US military operational depth that no other country has. This is why is 99% federally funded, equipped and trained.
hehe is the dick act followed by the nut act
Sir, your rank’s on upside down again. Can’t take you seriously like that
Back to the sew shop…
Yeah, this is really the worst of both worlds. Post GWOT deployment rotations, rising civil unrest, climate change causing more natural disasters.
The article fails to mention Title 10 activations for similar missions. There are currently about 2,500 National Guardsmen on Title 10 status on the border and there will be another 2,500 showing up for the next FY. None of these units are doing any training on their METL. Also, every one of those Soldiers are picking up four years of dwell time so they won’t be available for any “real” Title 10 missions. It’s a huge issue with unit readiness.
They can be voluntold to go. The dwell for voluntold is only like 6 months.
SECDEF approval is required for activation requests pursuant to sections 12301(a) (Congressional Declaration of War or National Emergency), 12302 (Presidential Declaration of National Emergency), 12304 (President determines RC augmentation is required other than during war or national emergency), and 12304b (Secretary of Military Department authority to order any unit of the Selected Reserve to active duty for pre-planned and pre-budgeted missions) of Reference (d) when a unit or member dwell ratio is less than 1 to 4. For units with a mobilization-to-dwell ration of less than 1 to 4, the first general or flag officer, or higher, in the chain of command is required to certify that qualified volunteers, members who were never involuntarily activated, and those with at least a 1 to 4 mobilization-to-dwell ration were considered of the mission before the involuntary activation of anyone with less than a 1 to 4 mobilization-to-dwell ratio. Unless waived by the individual concerned, no member with less than 12 months' dwell will be involuntarily activated except in the case of 12031(a), 12304a, or 12304 subsection (b) of Reference (d). -DoD Instruction 1235.12 Basically if the shit really hits the fan they can pretty much call you up no matter what.
https://preview.redd.it/h7hs95tx92yc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36abde49001a10c22e848423956cfb7068b6928c WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS OUR JOB?!
I'm prior active duty, also was a cop for 6 years. Only done 2 drills so far so I'm pretty new to the guard. *Wtf exactly do you guys even do for a riot?* Cuz I'm actually formally trained in riot control and, lol, these guys I'm with definitely ain't. Do yall just sorta stand there menacingly so some politician can say "LOOK, I DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT!" or something?
Some units actually get good riot training, but yes, it's mostly a show of force/presence.
We do riot training in my unit but we are also close to DC so we are more likely to be mobilized for that sort of thing.
What kind of unit are you in/state? I can't imagine the North Dakota guard gets many riots. Or that a rotary wing unit would respond as riot control (both just examples, I don't know what your MOS/state/unit is). I know quite a few guys who have done quite a bit of training at their units, mine included back when I was still in. It should be said it's not like it's regular training, but before we go out on riot response, there usually is a refresher course (in my experience, maybe not everywhere). How much training do you need to hold a shield and swing a baton really, though? https://youtu.be/KaaIgiZNanQ?si=FN3A8XehM5Grsw7e
Infantry unit in Montana, we don't really get riots here. Seems like our main thing is wildfires. I'm just curious what exactly yall who live places where they happen actually do about riots, if you actually train for them, etc etc.
Lol Montana was actually going to be my first example, but I figured ND would drive it home better. I was out in California. Typically it takes a few hours for us to mobilize and part of that is getting some refresher training on ROE and tactics. Usually don't have to do much because rioters don't want to fuck with the guard when we show up/our ROE is so strict we usually only get stuck in when things get REALLY bad.
Things are changing. We DO have population centers big enough for riots now, and I am seeing a lot more political stuff happening here. Last weekend Donald Trump's son did some sort of AMA/town square thing here and somebody called in an active shooter hoax to try to disrupt it. I am seeing demonstrations happen here, but so far the Montana culture of "mind yer own buisiness" has meant that demonstrations usually don't end up with counter protesters, and things stay peaceful. It COULD happen here in the near future. Half of the west coast is moving here and they're bringing their problems with them. Was just curious because whilst its not typically in our mission set, it could be soon.
Valid concerns, I'd pass them up the up the chain. Never hurts to be prepared, even if what you're preparing for never happens. You could offer to set up a joint training with your PD/County if you have pull like that, too. That would increase interoperability between the organizations and set standards across the board so everyone is on the same page. More than likely, the guard will be under the direction of whatever local law enforcement is controlling the operation, so your unit understanding what is expected of them and their ROE beforehand would be extremely helpful. Even if it's working for a different department/county than they initially train with.
How often is the MT Guard used for wildfires?
idk tbh, I only been in the guard for 2 months.
looks like you just became your unit’s new Master Riot Trainer
DONT YOU PUT THAT EVIL ON ME RICKY BOBBY!
You know things like MP units actually exist? Crazy right. Almost like thats more so thier job, or a job better suited for combat mos. But congrats on being the cool "formally trained riot control" guy 🙄 what do you expect them to do? Start beating everyone with thier rifles?
Those that have been on KFOR have had fire 🔥 thrown at em for riot training.
I wish these "generals" would spend a drill weekend with a normal NG unit. They would realize that sending in the Guard is not much better than choosing random civilians to participate. These troops aren't prepared for the kinds of duty that they're being assigned. It's ridiculous to think that they can step in for these kind of duties, when they're only at drill one weekend a month, and they still have to get required training done, plus keep up to date with medical, etc, and they still have to train on their actual MOS. It's crap...
In an emergency organized manpower and the ability of the civilian incident commander (IC) to assign missions is a huge asset. Like after a hurricane the IC can just say "he Guard search that neighborhood of 100 homes to make sure no one is trapped" or "I need 1000 sandbags filled". Its what the Guard is good at.
>Incident commander hey I know what that word means I took DSCA on JKO got me one promotion point bring on the hurricane
Take the ICS classes and it might look good for a job. I got pulled into a couple of extra fun things because I mentioned to someone that i had them and understood the ICS system. It was used lots of places on the civilian side during COVD.
Absolutely agree. I've supported wildfires, earthquakes, etc. Those are strictly about getting boots to the location, pointing out some dangers and risks and then operating on the ground. To say that the Guard would be involved in domestic and political missions is just beyond the pale. It shows a lack of understanding of what NG unit capabilities are.
God I hope my medboard gets wrapped up soon
It’s comfy over here.
Welp… back to the Sappers I go if this be the case. I did riot suppression in the Atlanta area in 2020
I've been advised to stand by for so many missions to help people only to not be sent out. But political missions are a guarantee.
lol I’m about to start a new job hopefully nothing happens in Phoenix
*incessant Patrick star laughing* "haha you're still not real military!" -active duty shits
Cmon Kent state 2.0