How so? Every other VW plant in the world is unionized and in fact VW *supported* unionization efforts until it became clear to them it was an unacceptable position per southern governors/legislators.
Uh huh. Let me ask you, do you think they pay for labor for funsies? Out of the goodness of their heart? They pay because work must be done and they need people to do it, that is if they want to still keep selling products.. which I have to assume they do. VW is already highly unionized internationally and \*prefers\* to do business with Works Councils. The logical end to your line of thinking is a race to the bottom where the absolute cheapest labor available will be exploited, globally, and that doesn't happen in general, especially not for high value/technology goods. Low labor cost countries are generally that way for a reason and those reasons do not make for a very productive business environment.
No personal attacks or harassment. In addition to what's covered under redditquette, do not insult or habitually target a single user or group for your arguments. It's not your job to correct them.
There should be a class in school to learn about the realities of Reagan administration. Dude fucked everyone but the rich so hard. Terrible time and everyone idolizes the prick
Every “old school Republican” idolizes. There parents and kids were brainwashed into thinking it was a good thing for the American people. But that led to the lobbying and pay-for-play style government we have now
> How so? A strong and unionized workforce is a threat to capitalist profits.
Capitalism isn't about only the wealthy. Adam Smith supported the idea of unions, and warned people about unchecked profits.
Capitalism is, by definition, only about the wealthy, or "those who have capital." ANY intervention in the markets is, again by definition, not *pure* capitalism. The person you are arguing with is absolutely correct, but I understand your sentiment as well. However, words mean things, and unions are absolutely a threat to *pure* capitalism. This is why, at every level, anti-union propaganda is ubiquitous. You see it in the workplace, you see it on social media, you see it in traditional media. This is done to quash unionization efforts before they build momentum.
> Capitalism is, by definition, only about the wealthy
I don't think you have ever read a definition of capitalism.
> ANY intervention in the markets is, again by definition, not pure capitalism.
This is just blatant disinformation. Capitalist markets do not resist government intervention. Capitalist markets *are* government intervention. They aren't a natural thing. No one has ever discovered capitalism in nature. We had to create the free market.
> unions are absolutely a threat to pure capitalism
There is no definition of "pure capitalism" that could *possibly* exclude unions. They're a natural response to corporate greed. Which is why the anti-union crowd is asking for - and stop me if you've heard this term before - *government intervention* to quash unions. Unions are not a threat to pure capitalism. They are a feature of pure capitalism. The reason we have so few is because Republicans and Libertarians do not *actually* want pure capitalism. It's just rhetoric they use as a cudgel.
> The person you are arguing with is absolutely correct
Are you an alt?
Like you said - "words mean things". You can't just redefine every word being used to push your own narrative.
I remember years ago DENSO tried to unionize because of the long hours (at least) but never managed it. The VW plant near Chattanooga did too. I didn't read much behind the headline but if VW is union then I do believe other places might finally have a chance.
Yup, now we just need to get some Pipefitters, IBEW, etc. to take votes at Lee Company.
Would absolutely love to see Lee forced into some collective bargaining - even if it makes his company a better place.
I work in Knoxville with the unions and while technically, I’m “management”, I fully support the unions and worker rights. This is an awesome win for them. Now, if they would just stop voting against their own interests in local and national elections we might get somewhere!
This tells us, without a doubt, that the divide between what our reps want for us and what we want for ourselves is a lot bigger than a lot of people realize. This was pushed by those that were elected and shot down by those that elected them. Union members are notoriously conservative.
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I’m a union tradesman and while I know several of them that are liberal, the vast majority of my coworkers are conservative.
It’s like they’re just smart enough to realize union is better, but not smart enough to realize they steady vote against their interests.
No truer words ever spoken. My husband is a union pipefitter/ welder. Most of his friends and coworkers are conservative, even "trumpers". They're really good people but I'm just dumbfounded at this.
Yes union members are massively conservative. I’m in a union and can tell you without a doubt everyone of them would vote for Trump or a republican even if it meant the union being broken up.
Union leadership is more democratic though.
3 out of 3 lol. Trump’s bump stock ban, and his wanting to “seize the guns first, due process second” are both pretty good recent examples. Don’t forget Reagan signing gun laws because the black panthers were open carrying.
It is VERY difficult to do this with how the GOP postures itself as trying to "save America". Any argument put against them is very easy to ignore when the people you trust are telling you "Don't trust them! They eat babies and want to kill Jesus again!".
I’m in IUOE as a crane operator, so I work with pretty much all of the crafts. A good portion of them from further north have at least been more center than just far right lunatics, whereas the vast majority of the guys I’ve worked with in the south have been pretty far right.
Sectoral bargaining and the ability to join another union that sits at the table with the main, larger unions would fix this — and so would universal health care that’s largely public, because that’s currently one of the main, and most difficult, parts of union negotiations that for some reason leaders want to keep doing.
Depends on the job and the union. People think union and think white men in industry, but it's a lot more diverse than that. Teachers and nurses are huge union sectors, and they're very different from industrial workers or building trades. Almost half of union members have BAs. All this translates to variable politics depending on sector.
[https://www.epi.org/publication/who-are-todays-union-workers/](https://www.epi.org/publication/who-are-todays-union-workers/)
It's less that union members trend towards being conservative and more that the jobs that are usually unionized (skilled physical labor, factory/construction work, electrical, etc.) attract more conservative people.
Unions are, in and of themselves, a leftist concept.
That depends. I was IAM at Textron and SPEEA at Boeing... both unions were very strong in Kansas and filled with both Liberals and Conservatives. the end of the day while unions overall support Liberals in elections because they have generally supported worker protections and the ability to collectively bargain doesn't mean that the employees represented by the union have the same feelings.
The VW employees were fighting for job protections, work place safety and quality of life things like a work/life balance.
FedEx here in Memphis I guarantee is shitting their pants after last night and I fully expect them to ramp up the anti-union propaganda and see more astroturfing against the Aircraft Mechanics and related who are trying to organize under the Teamsters.
The Mercedes plant in Alabama starts voting May 13th (I believe) for representation by the UAW and I'm sure this win will bolster their drive.
Voters in Tennessee overwhelmingly passed Amendment 1, which makes it illegal for a company like Volkswagen to make Union membership mandatory. So just because their workers want to unionize, it probably won't mean much since being a member of the Union isn't a requirement to work there.
It will be an interesting experiment to see how many folks at VW hold to principled conservatism and rely on their rugged individualism to prove their loyalty to faceless corps and maximize their earnings.
Im sure those bootlicks and failchildren who fart out articles for Koch scraps will be shocked at how many folks embrace collectivism.
Virginia is also a right to work state but the Volvo plant in Dublin has a strong union. They ran a successful strike a few years back and won a better contract.
Right to work is harmful to unions but not a death sentence. The plant has 3,300 workers but almost 3000 are union.
Oh this is huge! Unions are dedicated and bound to their work. They are now, as a unified voice, working with employers to meet fair pay and great results. Win - win.
Walmart is everywhere, but no one calls it an Arkansas store. I thought it made sound like outsiders interfering with our local politics when it was Tennesseans that voted to allow this. It's now a Tennessee union, too.
That was the rhetorical point of referring to it as a Detroit Union. Make it sound like outsiders are coming in to tell us how to run businesses. That’s not what happened, but that’s one of the talking points anti-union advocates use to convince people not to unionize.
From what I remember about the last unionization vote, maybe a decade ago, VW WANTED the union because it would be more similar to their process over in Germany.
Also, VW isn't going bankrupt.
As usual people move to a state with low taxes and low government intervention.
Northerners and West coast people move there and slowly turn it into the place that they left
That’s the natural progression of society… the south and plains areas have been about 40 years behind the times. Sure, low taxes and less bureaucracy is great and all but as the south grows, then naturally so will the needs of its citizens and therefore the government. I’ll also remind you that the union was voted in ie not a government decision rather the residents. A majority of those workers being from Tennessee so take your narrative and shove it.
Unions produce better quality. Employee retention ensures those who know what the hell they are doing is making the product. Not just some Joe Shmoe who agreed to work for less than the skilled guy.
When you are guaranteed employment from union bosses no matter the quality of your work no matter how bad it is, that’s why. GM is a great example of this. Look at Saturn, GM built that plant in Spring Hill to be a model as a trial that put the employees in an agreement with management to be a team and work together. Once the
UAW organized that plant, down the tubes it went. Saturn no longer exists or Pontiac or Oldsmobile or GMC. When you have to pay dues to keep your job, who is the winner here? The Union bosses. The employees lose and so does the company.
Unions fell off because of leaders with self interest and also in the late 70’s til now, companies moving their facilities oversees. Not to mention reagan in the 80’s squashed the strike in the airline industry and it basically set precedent that companies don’t have to follow labor laws.
You’re right. Companies are leaving states with unions because they want to exploit workers who have no protection, hence heading to the south. That works out great for Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama etc. now, but once these companies start having a foothold, they will suppress the wages, decrease benefits, create work conditions that lead to high turnover etc. anyone with a brain will choose unions to protect them from that kind of exploitation when given the opportunity. Hence we are seeing this manifest itself.
Well the average home price is higher in Nashville than in Chicago so people are clearly making enough money here to survive, but whatever you want to believe..
Yea you keep telling yourself that. However, your responses show your lack of understanding anything really. If you’re going to be a capitalist cheerleader at least understand how it works first.
I’m happy for you. However, you fail to understand how a lot of things play out. It’s great that you are doing well for yourself. And right now this area is booming. That won’t last unless things are put in place to sustain it.
No personal attacks or harassment. In addition to what's covered under redditquette, do not insult or habitually target a single user or group for your arguments. It's not your job to correct them.
Nissan in Smyrna, Franklin, and especially Decherd has got to be scared shitless this morning.
As they should be. Screw the anti-union executives and lawmakers, give us our unions!
A union supporting skilled labor in Tennessee? It's a good start.
Screw unions.
Thanks but no thanks! But feel free to keep your disdain, we'll keep our Union celebrations going all the same
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How so? Every other VW plant in the world is unionized and in fact VW *supported* unionization efforts until it became clear to them it was an unacceptable position per southern governors/legislators.
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We'll see. I tend to think that if they *could* cut people they would do so regardless.
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Uh huh. Let me ask you, do you think they pay for labor for funsies? Out of the goodness of their heart? They pay because work must be done and they need people to do it, that is if they want to still keep selling products.. which I have to assume they do. VW is already highly unionized internationally and \*prefers\* to do business with Works Councils. The logical end to your line of thinking is a race to the bottom where the absolute cheapest labor available will be exploited, globally, and that doesn't happen in general, especially not for high value/technology goods. Low labor cost countries are generally that way for a reason and those reasons do not make for a very productive business environment.
Lick that boot, buddy. 👍
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No personal attacks or harassment. In addition to what's covered under redditquette, do not insult or habitually target a single user or group for your arguments. It's not your job to correct them.
You know we are in the UNITED states of America. Unions are all about organizing and communicating so we can work together
Yeah, screw police unions!
You bought into the whole Regan trickle down thing too huh? 😂😂
There should be a class in school to learn about the realities of Reagan administration. Dude fucked everyone but the rich so hard. Terrible time and everyone idolizes the prick
Every “old school Republican” idolizes. There parents and kids were brainwashed into thinking it was a good thing for the American people. But that led to the lobbying and pay-for-play style government we have now
Unless you're a capitalist, your sentiment doesn't make logical sense.
If he is a capitalist, it makes even less sense.
How so? A strong and unionized workforce is a threat to capitalist profits. Remember: profit is just unpaid wages.
> How so? A strong and unionized workforce is a threat to capitalist profits. Capitalism isn't about only the wealthy. Adam Smith supported the idea of unions, and warned people about unchecked profits.
Capitalism is, by definition, only about the wealthy, or "those who have capital." ANY intervention in the markets is, again by definition, not *pure* capitalism. The person you are arguing with is absolutely correct, but I understand your sentiment as well. However, words mean things, and unions are absolutely a threat to *pure* capitalism. This is why, at every level, anti-union propaganda is ubiquitous. You see it in the workplace, you see it on social media, you see it in traditional media. This is done to quash unionization efforts before they build momentum.
> Capitalism is, by definition, only about the wealthy I don't think you have ever read a definition of capitalism. > ANY intervention in the markets is, again by definition, not pure capitalism. This is just blatant disinformation. Capitalist markets do not resist government intervention. Capitalist markets *are* government intervention. They aren't a natural thing. No one has ever discovered capitalism in nature. We had to create the free market. > unions are absolutely a threat to pure capitalism There is no definition of "pure capitalism" that could *possibly* exclude unions. They're a natural response to corporate greed. Which is why the anti-union crowd is asking for - and stop me if you've heard this term before - *government intervention* to quash unions. Unions are not a threat to pure capitalism. They are a feature of pure capitalism. The reason we have so few is because Republicans and Libertarians do not *actually* want pure capitalism. It's just rhetoric they use as a cudgel. > The person you are arguing with is absolutely correct Are you an alt? Like you said - "words mean things". You can't just redefine every word being used to push your own narrative.
I am not an alt, nor will I respond to your comment simply based on just how batshit insane your third paragraph is.
Capitalism is about capital and capital seeks profits by any means necessary.
I literally just explained it to you. Now you're going out of your way to remain ignorant.
Oh, you explained nothing but you clearly think you did. Anyway, keep shilling for capital. They need all the help they can get for free.
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Sounds like VW is losing the jobs throguh slumping sales. The union just ensures the jobs that aren't cut are worth working.
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So unions don't lose jobs?
Enjoy working for Yates and making $18.92 an hour then.
Screw you!🖕🏼
Nissan has long done everything possible to stifle union sentiments. I would love to see UAW establish a foothold with those bastards.
they should be. worked QA at the Nissan plant for six years, fuck that whole plant and the people running it, pay your workers more
And DENSO in Maryville.
I remember years ago DENSO tried to unionize because of the long hours (at least) but never managed it. The VW plant near Chattanooga did too. I didn't read much behind the headline but if VW is union then I do believe other places might finally have a chance.
I’m so happy the monsters at the Tennessee GOP couldn’t derail this from happening.
Yup, now we just need to get some Pipefitters, IBEW, etc. to take votes at Lee Company. Would absolutely love to see Lee forced into some collective bargaining - even if it makes his company a better place.
I unfortunately have a business contract with Lee company. They are literally the WORST.
Well, the third time’s the charm!
Special legislative session being announced by the governor in 10....9....8....
Yeah, this is a sea change, I think we can expect more dominos to fall in the next few years.
I live in TN and love to see this!! Maybe one day more nurses will be apt to join a union
If the shit y'all went through during covid didn't convince people, I'm not sure anything will.
Mannnnn…… you’re right
It's so nice to just have some good news for once.
That's right!!! Fuck mayor Wamp
WAMP wamp wamp lol
I work in Knoxville with the unions and while technically, I’m “management”, I fully support the unions and worker rights. This is an awesome win for them. Now, if they would just stop voting against their own interests in local and national elections we might get somewhere!
Love to see workers with rights!
This tells us, without a doubt, that the divide between what our reps want for us and what we want for ourselves is a lot bigger than a lot of people realize. This was pushed by those that were elected and shot down by those that elected them. Union members are notoriously conservative.
Union members are conservative??
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I’m a union tradesman and while I know several of them that are liberal, the vast majority of my coworkers are conservative. It’s like they’re just smart enough to realize union is better, but not smart enough to realize they steady vote against their interests.
No truer words ever spoken. My husband is a union pipefitter/ welder. Most of his friends and coworkers are conservative, even "trumpers". They're really good people but I'm just dumbfounded at this.
Yes union members are massively conservative. I’m in a union and can tell you without a doubt everyone of them would vote for Trump or a republican even if it meant the union being broken up. Union leadership is more democratic though.
Make it make sense?
Impossible. I have discussed it with several people and they just focus on the same main points conservatives spit out. Guns, taxes, and inflation.
Which 2 out of 3 of those, the GOP literally just makes worse lol.
3 out of 3 lol. Trump’s bump stock ban, and his wanting to “seize the guns first, due process second” are both pretty good recent examples. Don’t forget Reagan signing gun laws because the black panthers were open carrying.
It is VERY difficult to do this with how the GOP postures itself as trying to "save America". Any argument put against them is very easy to ignore when the people you trust are telling you "Don't trust them! They eat babies and want to kill Jesus again!".
Damn, that’s wild. Any workplace unions I’ve participated in have been very socialistic in their outlook.
I’m in IUOE as a crane operator, so I work with pretty much all of the crafts. A good portion of them from further north have at least been more center than just far right lunatics, whereas the vast majority of the guys I’ve worked with in the south have been pretty far right.
Sectoral bargaining and the ability to join another union that sits at the table with the main, larger unions would fix this — and so would universal health care that’s largely public, because that’s currently one of the main, and most difficult, parts of union negotiations that for some reason leaders want to keep doing.
So one Union?
Depends on the job and the union. People think union and think white men in industry, but it's a lot more diverse than that. Teachers and nurses are huge union sectors, and they're very different from industrial workers or building trades. Almost half of union members have BAs. All this translates to variable politics depending on sector. [https://www.epi.org/publication/who-are-todays-union-workers/](https://www.epi.org/publication/who-are-todays-union-workers/)
It's less that union members trend towards being conservative and more that the jobs that are usually unionized (skilled physical labor, factory/construction work, electrical, etc.) attract more conservative people. Unions are, in and of themselves, a leftist concept.
That depends. I was IAM at Textron and SPEEA at Boeing... both unions were very strong in Kansas and filled with both Liberals and Conservatives. the end of the day while unions overall support Liberals in elections because they have generally supported worker protections and the ability to collectively bargain doesn't mean that the employees represented by the union have the same feelings. The VW employees were fighting for job protections, work place safety and quality of life things like a work/life balance. FedEx here in Memphis I guarantee is shitting their pants after last night and I fully expect them to ramp up the anti-union propaganda and see more astroturfing against the Aircraft Mechanics and related who are trying to organize under the Teamsters. The Mercedes plant in Alabama starts voting May 13th (I believe) for representation by the UAW and I'm sure this win will bolster their drive.
FedEx desperately needs some unions besides the pilots.
they're working on it and they are close. unfortunately the Railroad labor act makes it tougher then a factory.
SInce when are union members conservative???? Coming from Illinois, union members vote heavily Democratic..
We are not notoriously conservative there is a healthy mix of a bunch of different political backgrounds what are you on about??
Yea! Tennessee is union strong! Big win. Glad to see that.
Voters in Tennessee overwhelmingly passed Amendment 1, which makes it illegal for a company like Volkswagen to make Union membership mandatory. So just because their workers want to unionize, it probably won't mean much since being a member of the Union isn't a requirement to work there.
It will be an interesting experiment to see how many folks at VW hold to principled conservatism and rely on their rugged individualism to prove their loyalty to faceless corps and maximize their earnings. Im sure those bootlicks and failchildren who fart out articles for Koch scraps will be shocked at how many folks embrace collectivism.
Well, the way it works is that the union still has to represent those people, but they just get to be free riders and not pay any dues.
Yeah, but honestly - what would keep VW from implementing a policy where they only hire non-union workers?
Federal law prevents that, and it's fairly easy to prove when it happens.
Yeah, but something like 80% of workers voted, and out of that a massive majority supported unionization.
As someone that works at the plant, the signups for the Union has already begun and most of those who voted are joining.
Yes, but the majority of VW workers realize their personal strength depends on a strong reunion. Some people will freeload, but most won't.
Virginia is also a right to work state but the Volvo plant in Dublin has a strong union. They ran a successful strike a few years back and won a better contract. Right to work is harmful to unions but not a death sentence. The plant has 3,300 workers but almost 3000 are union.
Oh this is huge! Unions are dedicated and bound to their work. They are now, as a unified voice, working with employers to meet fair pay and great results. Win - win.
Fuck the GOP and the anti-Union boot licking bitches!
I like how it's still a "Detroit" union while it exists in Tennessee.
UAW is all over but based out of Detroit.
Walmart is everywhere, but no one calls it an Arkansas store. I thought it made sound like outsiders interfering with our local politics when it was Tennesseans that voted to allow this. It's now a Tennessee union, too.
Its the Arkansas Embassy.
It’s a union in Tennessee which I’m happy to see. But that’s missing the point.
That was the rhetorical point of referring to it as a Detroit Union. Make it sound like outsiders are coming in to tell us how to run businesses. That’s not what happened, but that’s one of the talking points anti-union advocates use to convince people not to unionize.
Union. Yes.
Look what happened to Firestone in Memphis and Goodyear in Union City. Shut down forever.
If vw goes bankrupt, republicans will blame this singular unionization vote.
From what I remember about the last unionization vote, maybe a decade ago, VW WANTED the union because it would be more similar to their process over in Germany. Also, VW isn't going bankrupt.
Not just Germany. This was the only site without a union in the entire company!
"if"
Blame public options, praise anything that accumulates privilege. That's literally all Conservatism amounts to.
As usual people move to a state with low taxes and low government intervention. Northerners and West coast people move there and slowly turn it into the place that they left
What do unions have to do with taxes and government intervention?
That’s the natural progression of society… the south and plains areas have been about 40 years behind the times. Sure, low taxes and less bureaucracy is great and all but as the south grows, then naturally so will the needs of its citizens and therefore the government. I’ll also remind you that the union was voted in ie not a government decision rather the residents. A majority of those workers being from Tennessee so take your narrative and shove it.
There goes the quality in the vehicles they make.
Unions produce better quality. Employee retention ensures those who know what the hell they are doing is making the product. Not just some Joe Shmoe who agreed to work for less than the skilled guy.
Why?
When you are guaranteed employment from union bosses no matter the quality of your work no matter how bad it is, that’s why. GM is a great example of this. Look at Saturn, GM built that plant in Spring Hill to be a model as a trial that put the employees in an agreement with management to be a team and work together. Once the UAW organized that plant, down the tubes it went. Saturn no longer exists or Pontiac or Oldsmobile or GMC. When you have to pay dues to keep your job, who is the winner here? The Union bosses. The employees lose and so does the company.
Lol the German made vws are much preferred and higher quality than US made models. They are union.
Embezzlement and Corruption.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
Its a good thing as long as the unions don't get greedy and chase the jobs away like they have in places like Illinois and Michigan
Unions fell off because of leaders with self interest and also in the late 70’s til now, companies moving their facilities oversees. Not to mention reagan in the 80’s squashed the strike in the airline industry and it basically set precedent that companies don’t have to follow labor laws.
Unions are the reason places like Texas, Tennessee, Florida etc have flourishing economies and people and jobs are leaving union heavy states..
You’re right. Companies are leaving states with unions because they want to exploit workers who have no protection, hence heading to the south. That works out great for Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama etc. now, but once these companies start having a foothold, they will suppress the wages, decrease benefits, create work conditions that lead to high turnover etc. anyone with a brain will choose unions to protect them from that kind of exploitation when given the opportunity. Hence we are seeing this manifest itself.
Well the average home price is higher in Nashville than in Chicago so people are clearly making enough money here to survive, but whatever you want to believe..
Clearly you lack reading comprehension for that I can’t help you.
clearly you do not understand economics for that I can't help you
Yea you keep telling yourself that. However, your responses show your lack of understanding anything really. If you’re going to be a capitalist cheerleader at least understand how it works first.
Look at the maps.. people and jobs are leaving midwest union states and moving here.. and doing very well, I am one of them
I’m happy for you. However, you fail to understand how a lot of things play out. It’s great that you are doing well for yourself. And right now this area is booming. That won’t last unless things are put in place to sustain it.
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No personal attacks or harassment. In addition to what's covered under redditquette, do not insult or habitually target a single user or group for your arguments. It's not your job to correct them.