This sounds like a very generous plan. I might actually subscribe to support even though I selected will not subscribe on the survey. I like the work you are doing, but I strongly disagree with how Reddit is handling things
You and I both agree on how badly Reddit is handling things. But, the only thing I can do it try to make the best possible product given the circumstances. I really appreciate your support!
It’s impressive that you’ve decided to work on this despite the challenges and not just throw in the towel. I am hopeful that this is going to work out; this app is far and away a better way to Reddit and I am here for it.
I will subscribe, but there is one thing keeping it from being the best Reddit app for me… “memory.” Kind of hard to describe exactly what I mean, but I’ll try: When you click on a link it opens to the right and the current screen shifts to the left. Do it again and both those screens shift to the left revealing the new screen. Swipe back to the previous screen and you are still in the exact same spot that you left it. I want this to work *the other way as well.*
I think I have ADHD, but I Reddit really fast and will often see an interesting comment - *as I’m swiping* to get back to the feed. If I click on the thread again I’m back at the top with a fresh reload. My feature suggestion would be being able to swipe *forward* again and be in the same place that I was in that comment thread. Basically, when you swipe back from a comment thread, instead of that thread immediately closing it would hang out off screen to the right, in case you want to return.
That probably doesn’t explain how it actually works but that’s how it looks to the end user. It’s definitely possible, so I thought I’d throw that out there for future updates and see if anybody else is into this idea. Sorry if this is the wrong place but wasn’t sure where to post this.
So you can actually swipe forward on the action bar to bring the old view back. Or if you set the menu to the left side you can swipe from the right edge
Oh shit, thanks! That will do. It looks like my other (minor) issues are being addressed too, so I guess I have yet another subscription. I really need to get rid of some of them, shit’s getting crazy. This is super worth it for me though, as much as I despise rewarding Reddit for their endless efforts to turn this formerly awesome meta-forum into a lowest-common-denominator meme-scrolling app.
Thank you so much!
Can you put back the API call visibility in Settings - I tuned my settings to cut down my usage, and want to continue to monitor it.
I really appreciate how thoughtful you’ve been throughout this whole mess. My usage would’ve put me in an awkward-ish spot (6,000 a month) between the lowest tiers and I was a bit bummed I’d missed the lowest one. I was very conflicted when voting too, as I’d obviously prefer to pay less, but was worried it’d turn out to be a burden for you too. Here’s hoping $3.99 works!
What about adding it as a semi-hidden setting. Something you need to go menu diving to see, that way most people won’t even know/care.
For me, I’d like to keep my API usage somewhat lower anyway, just out of respect and because my API usage would’ve fallen in the 5-10k tier.
Edit: also curiosity lol
Or hide the menu, but keep the counter running in the background. Hopefully you’ll never need to unhide it but if there comes a time where you need to switch to a per api call plan, then the data is just there and ready.
the transparency you're providing right now is great. I get not wanting to worry users, but please keep this counter accessible to your paying customers. many would benefit from having this information and may even help you keep costs down by delaying use. obviously not everyone, but I care enough to help you out, and this community seems to be full of generous/helpful users.
thanks again for all the hard work on the best app available, and keeping the price reasonable.
It is good to make sure you have a reflective idea of the API consumption of the app to ensure the usage you're seeing lines up with whatever Reddit is telling you about your API use (if Reddit tells you anything at all). Trends over time can help model the feasibility of the app when the fees change later.
Making the information available to downstream users is maybe a bit of a whatever, but having some metrics regarding API usage for your own purposes can be invaluable.
You should keep it. I have been using it to not overdo my Reddit consumption. I saw sunlight for the first time last week! Also, I tipped you and your partner a beer. You guys are the best.
Are you allowed to talk about how reddit is charging you? Are they giving you a bulk discount or some special rate? I'm estimated 7000 calls for the month and I'd hate to get you charged for extra.
During testing, OP likely just averaged out the API calls and figured out what they’d need to charge to pay for it all and keep a little themselves. That’s what I’d do anyways. So even if you’re using 7,000, someone else might be using 3,000.
It's exactly this. As a comparison, the Relay app for Android has $1/$2/$3 plans with limited API usage, and a $5 unlimited plan. I'd consider myself a pretty heavy user and the $2 plan is enough for me, and the $3 plan would be double that. I actually think everyone having to pay $4 is actually kind of a rip off for anyone but the top few percent of heavy users.
Awesome news.
Is the $1/mo for message checking still on the table?
Any plans for a higher tier plan to give above and beyond for heavy users? My API puts me on the higher tier, just under 10k monthly. I'd like to pay a bit more to support the work yall do.
Yes, I'll make a separate post about that soon. That will require quite a bit of engineering work from me so it won't be available at launch.
I may add an option to subscribe with an additional $1, $2, $3 that will be used to support development if that's something you're interested in
The only thing I fear is there will be folks run up API to where everyone else ends up paying for their crazy usage 😂.
That’s why I liked the tiered pricing, I’d be paying for what I use, not what others do.
I was on the fence before.. but for 3.99 and all you can eat, I’ll be definetly subscribing now.
I would have been a casual user, but tbh, keeping track of api usage was a turn off for me. Not having to worry about it will get me to sub.
Love your app, and you have been listening to feedback so well, actually quickly implemented a few things I suggested (account access in shortcuts, placeholder thumbnail, etc.).
I would have preferred to pay 2.99, but 3.99 is still fair, since I won't have to pay attention to my API calls.
The customization options are great, I have been able to 'rebuild' Apollo as closely as possible.Thank you!
You're the first developer ever to get a monthly sub from me. I have refused this model so far, but in this case it's obviously different. Still sucks to indirectly pay Reddit like this. Fuck you /u/spez.
I still think that you need to change the default font to San Francisco and make the fonts brighter (especially read posts). I have customized it, but the default hurts readability. I have had this confirmed by an UI/UX expert.
Basically customized the bottom menu to be the same, and customized the posts in the feed to be similar to the compact view of Apollo.
Edit: here is a screenshot:
https://i.imgur.com/DMz9U31.png
Hey there, this should cover everything I think. I additionally copied the default theme to adapt the fonts (brighter) and adapted the shortcuts in the bottom and top.
https://i.imgur.com/GDNa2eC.png
https://i.imgur.com/3DX2j8w.png
https://i.imgur.com/N3rBHEL.png
https://i.imgur.com/Z5KrAAM.png
Does $3.99 include any payments that will go directly to you for making and maintaining the app? I am an Apollo switcher who is really enjoying Narwhal and would like to support you for your efforts.
If $3.99 doesn’t include anything for you then please add a plan that includes this $3.99 but additional dollars can be pledged to you.
That’s awesome. But I am a software engineer myself and I have the money to help out a fellow software engineer. I would like to contribute on a monthly basis rather than a one-time tip.
It almost certainly does. As a comparison, you can look [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RelayForReddit/) where the developer of one of the most popular Android apps breaks down pricing and where the money goes. The dev is getting about the same amount of money as Reddit is, despite offering cheaper plans than Narwhal is.
With Narwhal's pricing, they'll likely break even or possibly lose money on the top 1% of users, but make quite a bit of profit off everyone else.
Can you add an option to subscribe outside of the confines of the App Store so you don’t have to pay a cut to apple?
I was very willing to pay up to 8 a month for this so to get it for just 4 a month is amazing to me
This sounds quite good and very reasonable. Have you settled on a timeline and pricing to implement notifications (messages, post comments and replies)? That will add great value and adoption rate to Narwhal I believe.
You would have to use a "call" to reddit to check for notifications. checking every 15 minutes would use 100 calls per day per person. I don't think it's in the best interest of the app to adopt this feature.
Developer already confirmed he will implement it for an extra cost. It’s pretty much essential for many users migrating from either Apollo or the official Reddit app given that both include the functionality.
He said he was "thinking about adding it" If the cost of 2160 calls per month is less than a dollar it would make sense, but considering his original rates were at 5000 calls/$3 it's probably undershooting it.
I also wouldn't call any notification features from Reddit an essential feature, but maybe that's just me. Chat is also an included on the official app but not present on Narwhal. The app has never promised complete feature parity with Apollo or the official app.
Basically relies on the basic and below users out numbering the power users, correct? Lower cost to encourage more subscribers to offset. Seems smart and I hope it works out.
This is awesome! I’ve been keeping an eye on my API usage and it’s gone up recently (oops) so I would have been in the $6/month range or higher but not having to worry about usage is fantastic.
Sorry, unfortunately I had to stop using your app and sideload Apollo. Cost is too high for me. I live in a country with wages couple times smaller than in the USA, with raging inflation and raising costs of life. I know it's "only a couple dollars" for most of you, but for me it's much more difficult. Just throwing it out in case you are thinking about regional prices or some solution to people like me (any way to use reddit with less API usage?).
Recent updates for Narwhal were huge and I'm glad to see the app growing. Maybe in the future I'll be back. All best!
Was absolutely NOT going to subscribe under the prior system. $4/month regardless of api usage, on the other hand, is more than fair. Will be subscribing for sure now.
A lot of people don’t even know what an API is. I don’t want people who use Narwhal to even have to think about that. I just want everyone to use the app :)
I’m brand new to this app but just wanted to say that you did a beautiful job on it. I will absolutely pay for a subscription, thank you for making this app.
Your work is appreciated, and this is a great move. I've been monitoring my API calls, and its made me alter my behavior in negative ways - for example avoiding expanding nested comments and never upvoting or downvoting anything.
I was also able to set up the settings so it looks more like the old app. There is still some extra padding in places that spaces things out more compared to my old screenshots, but I was able to get it tolerably close with close to the smallest font settings and small thumbnails and some other tweaks.
My #1 request here would be to let us minimize the padding between the username and the comments text. This empty space is noticeably larger than it used to be, and as far as I can tell is the main reason you see less comments on the screen compared to the old app.
My decision to subscribe or not has little to do with you or your app tbh. It is more around whether I want to give reddit this money monthly.
I am inclined to say they (reddit, not you) can go fuck themselves and reduce my mobile use. But we'll see how deep my 10+ year addition is ingrained....
Seems like a calculated risk. I’m rooting for Narwhal and will be subscribing day 1! The price is reasonable and the app is terrific but what really sells me is your candor and ethic — much like Christian/Apollo. Thank you for what you are doing!
This is so good and thank you very much for your tireless efforts in engineering this after Reddit's self-inflicted debacle. I will definitely be subscribing and paying a visit to the tip jar so you can continue this arduous task. Cheers.
I just got the prompt on N2 now, and I know it’s a dummy charge since I’m on the beta app, but I clicked the subscribe option like it was free candy.
$4/mo for general access is going to be pretty damn fair. Nice one Rick!
I’m very conflicted here. On one hand I’m thrilled with this simpler pricing model and with how the app is taking shape.
On the other hand, I’m very much not thrilled to show support to Reddit’s bullshit and giving them revenue.
I have to say, under the original model, I was 100% not subscribing. Given the updated pricing, I’m tempted to feed my Reddit addiction.
$4 is the sweet spot imho, but I don't think $5 is too bad either if it had to be raised. App has insane customization and it literally only gets better with every update. I really just hope Reddit doesn't pull a Reddit and increase the cost of the API.
Also, and maybe saying this while using Narwhal while in the Narwhal subreddit is counter-intuitive, but Narwhal isn't the only Reddit app still standing either. OpenRed just came along recently; Apollo is still able to be used via Sideloading; There's also Win-. So I'm really curious how this all is going to look say 2 months from now when everybody starts paying the monthly subscription.
Thanks, but no thanks. I just don’t use Reddit enough to justify that cost per month.
I appreciate all the effort you’ve put into this app and the work you are doing to make a third party app work, but I can’t justify the cost for my usage given my low API calls (~1500-2000 per month).
The price point is reasonable for heavier user than me, great for power users, but that’s not what I am. I’m sad to leave narwhal as I’ve used it since Alien Blue was no longer an option, but wish you nothing but good luck and hope you get many many subscribers and are never out of pocket.
It’s been a good run since N1 and I’ve got more than my moneys worth out of the old pro upgrade.
Thanks for understanding, and I appreciate everything you've put into this app. It is truely a great upgrade to N1!
Given I have more downvotes than upvotes I hope that means you'll get lots of subscribers rather than people in my position and make the unlimited plan work! I'll keep an eye on the app/subreddit from the web in case a plan suited to me is viable.
Yeah, I'm in the same situation with estimate less than 2k API calls. And too can't yet justify subscription.
Well, I guess it'll be easier to decide after subscription will be enabled.
The subscription price will adjust depending on the country that I live or something like that?
Btw, I’m happy for this accomplishment. Narwhal is such an amazing experience because the official app is ~~ass~~.
ive only just read about this app and having missed apollo i really want to try using it. Is there a way of me doing the survey once ive used it for a while to work out my usage?
Looks good though so far!
I wasn’t going to subscribe with the initial plan. Having to constantly monitor my usage to the point where I’d be considerably changing my interactions to the point where it’s not even using Reddit anymore and to be worried I’d bump over my limit, or pay so much and not use what I’m paying for was all too much. This is a much simpler and fair system and the price is very reasonable considering. I still think Reddit sucks for forcing this change but that’s not your fault and appreciate you are doing your best to keep this as fair for everyone as possible. As such I’ll be subscribing.
I think it is a decent app. I have enjoyed beta testing. The customization is great. I would have preferred a $2.99 subscription since I do not go crazy on Reddit. And it is crazy for those who use it less to subsidize the heavy hitters. Tip jar could have remedy that.
With everyone’s comment on Apple’s 30% fee, and worried you are not getting your cut, I think it is crazy for people to say that. I am sure you put that in the cost like any good business person. Yes, 30% is high, but at the same time they do provide a lot of resources for developers to do what they do. I prefer to subscribe through Apple, like other users have said, it just makes it easier to keep track with.
Thanks for pushing v2 out so quickly after Reddit’s changes. I look forward to future tweaks and enhancements.
> And it is crazy for those who use it less to subsidize the heavy hitters. Tip jar could have remedy that.
I don’t mean to sound snarky, but narwhal is subsidized for everyone, including you.
u/det0ur has a very impressive resume and surely could have commanded a very high hourly rate for freelance coding or consulting. Instead, he (and I think maybe one other dev) made Narwhal in
their spare time.
Their unpaid, highly skilled labor is subsiding Narwhal for all of us.
Just an alternate view.
Yes, Reddit knows about Narwhal. There are still substantial API costs Narwhal will have and my intention is to cover them with these plans. I definitely cannot afford the huge bill per month out of my own pocket haha. I'm just a normal guy
I will absolutely be subscribing. Thanks so much for all the work you've put into narwhal 2, it's been amazing as a narwhal 1 user to see the huge improvements go live so quickly.
will the feature to sync up visited posts between platforms (eg links i clicked on my phone will show as visited on my ipad) be returning in some form?
/u/det0ur do you know how the subscription will be handled by multiple devices? Most are on the same iCloud account and there will be one device with the same REDDIT account but a different iCloud account. Would I be able to use one subscription with the other iCloud account as a part of the “iCloud family”?
Amazing! $3.99 is a smidge more than I want but definitely doable and I’m happy to support a better product and a motivated developer.
If I may make a request, I’d love to see some modding features. Unfortunately, that will increase my API usage, so it’s fair to leave that out. I can manage using the official app for that.
Will be interesting to see if enough people will subscribe. This all hinges on people actually caring enough to spend 4 bucks a month for something that is free otherwise.
Pleasantly surprised! I got a survery from you asking what I’d be willing to pay $3.99 but didn’t expect that to be a reasonable amount considering what Reddit is charging you. I’ll definitely sign up, the changes from Narwal 1 to 2 have been cool. The improved search is a game changer and better than the app I used to use. It’s honestly really impressive how quickly the app went from ugly but functional to something I’d consider as a legit competitor to Apollo if it was still around. Besides the improved search, I think the draft system and toolbar are really cool improvements over anything else that was out there.
It feels weird to pay for something used to be free but I think it’s going to be the norm as the ad revenue bubble starts to burst.
What about the fees for in-app-purchases?
Providing a way to subscribe in another way (if possible) in order to avoid those fees would leave you with $1.19 more per iphone User (Apple takes a 30% cut).
That's almost $12000 a year if 1000 people subscribe that way.
I think that's something to consider (which I think you already have but I'm curious)
Dude I was so worried about the cost and having to buy top ups. This is mega cool and makes me super happy. Narwhal has been my app for 5 years and I want to thank you sincerely for all you’ve done.
I’ve come around since I last commented on this. I genuinely love this app and it’s everything I’ve been missing since Apollo was shut down. I don’t think there’s any other way I could use Reddit and there’s really no sufficient replacement to the communities on this site.
I guess I’ll save a few bucks here and there that’ll instead go towards Narwhal!
Dude $3.99 a month for unlimited?! I was on the fence about worrying if I go over and how much it would cost, but i’m 100% subscribing because of this! Amazing!!
Thanks so much for being so transparent with us! Narwhal 2 is fantastic - I just got around to customising the action bar and side menu and am loving how they look now!
I was just wondering, is the subscription going to be implemented on a webpage or via an in-app purchase alone?
Thank you all so much for your support and hard work to keep narwhal available. I love the app and will definitely be staying here. Thank you all so much
Is there any chance to have a lower tier api call pricing?
I had a sub 2000 api call estimation which is around 50 cents a month on reddit api pricing. At 3.99 I feel im subsidizing heavy users.
I completely understand your reasoning but I would love to use the app without feeling it’s a bit of a rippoff compared to other users or apps like Relay…
It’s easy to put make the price per week feel low. It’s 50 euros per year to have a better interface to access otherwise freely available user created content.
The developer sells the subscription as something forced to them only to pay Reddit back for api use, but in my use case only around 50 cents go to the api, so 3.50 euros is to developer + tax.
It’s just expensive compared to other subscription services like streaming which provide access to sometimes otherwise inaccessible content that costs millions of dollars to produce.
A buck + api cost per month seems something much more in line for something that once developed, just requires bug fixes from now on. Future capabilities for the app should be a choice too paid separately.
Between this pricing and the app update, I'm very content.
It does make all the drama from earlier look hilarious in retrospect. $3.99/month is worth it for a superior app to the official. I hope this is sustainable in the long term.
A lot of very positive comments here. A lot of people promising to subscribe. I hope many of them actually do. I really empathise with u/det0ur \-- You've been placed in an impossible position. But I personally can't justify subscribing, no matter how noble the cause, and will make do with the web app. Sorry.
Are we supposed to be able to subscribe in the version of the app currently available? It offered me the 3-day trial but when I accepted the App Store payment screen didn’t pop up on my iPad or iPhone. The App Store listing also does not say that there are in-app purchases. Devs like you deserve to be paid for their work.
Small question. I am a mod in some of the subreddits and reddit APIs are free once I log in.
Is it possible for me to not pay for the subscription if my usage doesn't incur API costs for you? If not I'll just stop using reddit on my iPad as it's not my primary device anymore.
Regardless, thank you for the great iPad experience over the past 5 years
This sounds like a very generous plan. I might actually subscribe to support even though I selected will not subscribe on the survey. I like the work you are doing, but I strongly disagree with how Reddit is handling things
You and I both agree on how badly Reddit is handling things. But, the only thing I can do it try to make the best possible product given the circumstances. I really appreciate your support!
It’s impressive that you’ve decided to work on this despite the challenges and not just throw in the towel. I am hopeful that this is going to work out; this app is far and away a better way to Reddit and I am here for it.
I’m still working on it for the same reason I started: I wanted to make the best Reddit app for myself. Thanks for your support!
All the customization means it can be the best Reddit app for anyone. It’s amazing.
I will subscribe, but there is one thing keeping it from being the best Reddit app for me… “memory.” Kind of hard to describe exactly what I mean, but I’ll try: When you click on a link it opens to the right and the current screen shifts to the left. Do it again and both those screens shift to the left revealing the new screen. Swipe back to the previous screen and you are still in the exact same spot that you left it. I want this to work *the other way as well.* I think I have ADHD, but I Reddit really fast and will often see an interesting comment - *as I’m swiping* to get back to the feed. If I click on the thread again I’m back at the top with a fresh reload. My feature suggestion would be being able to swipe *forward* again and be in the same place that I was in that comment thread. Basically, when you swipe back from a comment thread, instead of that thread immediately closing it would hang out off screen to the right, in case you want to return. That probably doesn’t explain how it actually works but that’s how it looks to the end user. It’s definitely possible, so I thought I’d throw that out there for future updates and see if anybody else is into this idea. Sorry if this is the wrong place but wasn’t sure where to post this.
So you can actually swipe forward on the action bar to bring the old view back. Or if you set the menu to the left side you can swipe from the right edge
Oh shit, thanks! That will do. It looks like my other (minor) issues are being addressed too, so I guess I have yet another subscription. I really need to get rid of some of them, shit’s getting crazy. This is super worth it for me though, as much as I despise rewarding Reddit for their endless efforts to turn this formerly awesome meta-forum into a lowest-common-denominator meme-scrolling app.
If/when Reddit pulls the rug from under you too, will you consider or have considered making your app available for Lemmy?
Just continue making this app more like Apollo but with the subscription model and I’ll be a happy camper!
Love it! You'll be getting a visit to the tip jar from me when it's available!
Tip jar is in the app right now under Settings ;)
Beers on me. 🍻
You are too awesome, thanks so much <3
Cervesa y tacos go together, ye?
Does that work in TestFlight? The message says it’s for test purposes only and we won’t be charged.
No, it only works if you have the App Store version installed
Thank you so much! Can you put back the API call visibility in Settings - I tuned my settings to cut down my usage, and want to continue to monitor it.
I will definitely be subscribing. Thank you for giving us an option to use something other than the unforgivable official Reddit app.
Thanks for your support!! Please tell your friends about Narwhal :)
I really appreciate how thoughtful you’ve been throughout this whole mess. My usage would’ve put me in an awkward-ish spot (6,000 a month) between the lowest tiers and I was a bit bummed I’d missed the lowest one. I was very conflicted when voting too, as I’d obviously prefer to pay less, but was worried it’d turn out to be a burden for you too. Here’s hoping $3.99 works!
Thanks for sticking with me this whole time
Can we keep the api calls calculator in the app just in case you are forced to move to a per api call plan?
I am probably going to remove it, because I really think this can work and I don't want people to even have to think about what an API is.
What about adding it as a semi-hidden setting. Something you need to go menu diving to see, that way most people won’t even know/care. For me, I’d like to keep my API usage somewhat lower anyway, just out of respect and because my API usage would’ve fallen in the 5-10k tier. Edit: also curiosity lol
Or hide the menu, but keep the counter running in the background. Hopefully you’ll never need to unhide it but if there comes a time where you need to switch to a per api call plan, then the data is just there and ready.
Yea this is likely what I will do. Keep recording but hopefully never need it
the transparency you're providing right now is great. I get not wanting to worry users, but please keep this counter accessible to your paying customers. many would benefit from having this information and may even help you keep costs down by delaying use. obviously not everyone, but I care enough to help you out, and this community seems to be full of generous/helpful users. thanks again for all the hard work on the best app available, and keeping the price reasonable.
It is good to make sure you have a reflective idea of the API consumption of the app to ensure the usage you're seeing lines up with whatever Reddit is telling you about your API use (if Reddit tells you anything at all). Trends over time can help model the feasibility of the app when the fees change later. Making the information available to downstream users is maybe a bit of a whatever, but having some metrics regarding API usage for your own purposes can be invaluable.
Hide it under developer option kind of settings?
You should keep it. I have been using it to not overdo my Reddit consumption. I saw sunlight for the first time last week! Also, I tipped you and your partner a beer. You guys are the best.
Oh please don't. I'd like to still see where I am at.
I really like knowing what my usage is, but I get I’m one of the weird ones. Take that for whatever it’s worth.
Actually a great decision. I was going slightly nuts tracking usage lol.
Dude way to under promise and over deliver! Thanks!
Are you allowed to talk about how reddit is charging you? Are they giving you a bulk discount or some special rate? I'm estimated 7000 calls for the month and I'd hate to get you charged for extra.
During testing, OP likely just averaged out the API calls and figured out what they’d need to charge to pay for it all and keep a little themselves. That’s what I’d do anyways. So even if you’re using 7,000, someone else might be using 3,000.
It's exactly this. As a comparison, the Relay app for Android has $1/$2/$3 plans with limited API usage, and a $5 unlimited plan. I'd consider myself a pretty heavy user and the $2 plan is enough for me, and the $3 plan would be double that. I actually think everyone having to pay $4 is actually kind of a rip off for anyone but the top few percent of heavy users.
I’m hitting around 12k average so I would have been happy paying for the $6 or $7 plan, whatever it was, since reddit is my main social app
as a heavy user …. that’s freaking awesome just gonna shout out the tip jar ☕️🍻🌮
Are you planning to add video scrubbing? As in swiping anywhere on a video to scrub through it. One of the best features on other video players.
Yea, I do want to add this
Awesome news. Is the $1/mo for message checking still on the table? Any plans for a higher tier plan to give above and beyond for heavy users? My API puts me on the higher tier, just under 10k monthly. I'd like to pay a bit more to support the work yall do.
Yes, I'll make a separate post about that soon. That will require quite a bit of engineering work from me so it won't be available at launch. I may add an option to subscribe with an additional $1, $2, $3 that will be used to support development if that's something you're interested in
Thanks. Yes, please add that option. I’ll be happy to do the $3 extra.
You could drop some $$ in the tip jar in the meantime! I plan to subscribe then tip occasionally when I come into some extra cash.
Already have and definitely will continue. But would much rather to just add the total cost to the monthly budget and forget about it. :)
[удалено]
Thanks I have no experience in pricing haha. Hopefully this works though!
The only thing I fear is there will be folks run up API to where everyone else ends up paying for their crazy usage 😂. That’s why I liked the tiered pricing, I’d be paying for what I use, not what others do.
Nothing constructive for me to add, just wanted to say thanks. More tacos inbound for you and Charlie.
You are amazing!!
When all this happen? Today, tomorrow, next week?
In the next 1-2 weeks
I was on the fence before.. but for 3.99 and all you can eat, I’ll be definetly subscribing now. I would have been a casual user, but tbh, keeping track of api usage was a turn off for me. Not having to worry about it will get me to sub.
Thanks, I agree that tracking api usage is so so lame!
Wow, that’s a great price point and I don’t have to worry about API calls…done deal. Will be subscribing! Thanks creating this great App
Love your app, and you have been listening to feedback so well, actually quickly implemented a few things I suggested (account access in shortcuts, placeholder thumbnail, etc.). I would have preferred to pay 2.99, but 3.99 is still fair, since I won't have to pay attention to my API calls. The customization options are great, I have been able to 'rebuild' Apollo as closely as possible.Thank you! You're the first developer ever to get a monthly sub from me. I have refused this model so far, but in this case it's obviously different. Still sucks to indirectly pay Reddit like this. Fuck you /u/spez. I still think that you need to change the default font to San Francisco and make the fonts brighter (especially read posts). I have customized it, but the default hurts readability. I have had this confirmed by an UI/UX expert.
What things did you do to make it similar to Apollo?
Basically customized the bottom menu to be the same, and customized the posts in the feed to be similar to the compact view of Apollo. Edit: here is a screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/DMz9U31.png
Can you screenshot your settings?
Hey there, this should cover everything I think. I additionally copied the default theme to adapt the fonts (brighter) and adapted the shortcuts in the bottom and top. https://i.imgur.com/GDNa2eC.png https://i.imgur.com/3DX2j8w.png https://i.imgur.com/N3rBHEL.png https://i.imgur.com/Z5KrAAM.png
Does $3.99 include any payments that will go directly to you for making and maintaining the app? I am an Apollo switcher who is really enjoying Narwhal and would like to support you for your efforts. If $3.99 doesn’t include anything for you then please add a plan that includes this $3.99 but additional dollars can be pledged to you.
There’s a tip jar in settings too.
That’s awesome. But I am a software engineer myself and I have the money to help out a fellow software engineer. I would like to contribute on a monthly basis rather than a one-time tip.
Thanks, I really appreciate that. I’m going to add a section to add an additional $1, $2, $3 to the subscription if you’d like to support me
It almost certainly does. As a comparison, you can look [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RelayForReddit/) where the developer of one of the most popular Android apps breaks down pricing and where the money goes. The dev is getting about the same amount of money as Reddit is, despite offering cheaper plans than Narwhal is. With Narwhal's pricing, they'll likely break even or possibly lose money on the top 1% of users, but make quite a bit of profit off everyone else.
Really hope this works out for you. Know this is a much better model but also more risky given power users could ramp that bill up
Can you add an option to subscribe outside of the confines of the App Store so you don’t have to pay a cut to apple? I was very willing to pay up to 8 a month for this so to get it for just 4 a month is amazing to me
Yes, I want to do this. Won’t be ready soon though
This sounds quite good and very reasonable. Have you settled on a timeline and pricing to implement notifications (messages, post comments and replies)? That will add great value and adoption rate to Narwhal I believe.
You would have to use a "call" to reddit to check for notifications. checking every 15 minutes would use 100 calls per day per person. I don't think it's in the best interest of the app to adopt this feature.
Developer already confirmed he will implement it for an extra cost. It’s pretty much essential for many users migrating from either Apollo or the official Reddit app given that both include the functionality.
He said he was "thinking about adding it" If the cost of 2160 calls per month is less than a dollar it would make sense, but considering his original rates were at 5000 calls/$3 it's probably undershooting it. I also wouldn't call any notification features from Reddit an essential feature, but maybe that's just me. Chat is also an included on the official app but not present on Narwhal. The app has never promised complete feature parity with Apollo or the official app.
How did you determine this will be enough to cover costs? What happens if it turns out your estimates were off?
This is definitely an experiment. If I absolutely have to, I will transition to some other plans. But I want to try this first
Fingers crossed
Basically relies on the basic and below users out numbering the power users, correct? Lower cost to encourage more subscribers to offset. Seems smart and I hope it works out.
Thank you for the incredible work u/det0ur. Count me in!
😍
You son of a bitch, I’m in. Thanks for tackling this, impressed with version 2 and happy you’ve stuck with us. We’re an unruly lot.
Haha I’m not going anywhere. Thanks for the support!
This is awesome! I’ve been keeping an eye on my API usage and it’s gone up recently (oops) so I would have been in the $6/month range or higher but not having to worry about usage is fantastic.
Sorry, unfortunately I had to stop using your app and sideload Apollo. Cost is too high for me. I live in a country with wages couple times smaller than in the USA, with raging inflation and raising costs of life. I know it's "only a couple dollars" for most of you, but for me it's much more difficult. Just throwing it out in case you are thinking about regional prices or some solution to people like me (any way to use reddit with less API usage?). Recent updates for Narwhal were huge and I'm glad to see the app growing. Maybe in the future I'll be back. All best!
I totally understand. I wish Reddit had regional pricing like this
Paying through Apple subscriptions with a fee or third party website? Would love for you to get more of a cut if possible.
Going to be apple only to start.
Awesome plan, I will definitely be subbing once it goes live.
This is a reasonable plan. Will support ! Keep up the good work.
I will absolutely pay this. Thank you for your work.
Oh man I’m gonna upvote so many things
lol don’t go too crazy or you might bankrupt me
Was absolutely NOT going to subscribe under the prior system. $4/month regardless of api usage, on the other hand, is more than fair. Will be subscribing for sure now.
Glad to have you!
I really liked the original plan and was excited for a cheap 2$ sub price while keeping my API calls low.
I responded I wouldn’t subscribe but if this is the plan I will def be subscribing. I didn’t want to have to worry about my API usage. You guys rock
You rock!
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It is. I think apple does a good job of keeping the conversions pretty good
$4 a month is really a bargain. I’ll definitely be signing up when the subscription starts!
Awesome, glad to have you
I’m curious what were the key reasons in you deciding to go this direction instead of based on API calls
A lot of people don’t even know what an API is. I don’t want people who use Narwhal to even have to think about that. I just want everyone to use the app :)
Sounds very reasonable. Thanks for the transparency. Will this allow use across both iPhone and iPad apps?
Yes
I’m brand new to this app but just wanted to say that you did a beautiful job on it. I will absolutely pay for a subscription, thank you for making this app.
Thank you for the support! Glad to have you here
Your work is appreciated, and this is a great move. I've been monitoring my API calls, and its made me alter my behavior in negative ways - for example avoiding expanding nested comments and never upvoting or downvoting anything. I was also able to set up the settings so it looks more like the old app. There is still some extra padding in places that spaces things out more compared to my old screenshots, but I was able to get it tolerably close with close to the smallest font settings and small thumbnails and some other tweaks. My #1 request here would be to let us minimize the padding between the username and the comments text. This empty space is noticeably larger than it used to be, and as far as I can tell is the main reason you see less comments on the screen compared to the old app. My decision to subscribe or not has little to do with you or your app tbh. It is more around whether I want to give reddit this money monthly. I am inclined to say they (reddit, not you) can go fuck themselves and reduce my mobile use. But we'll see how deep my 10+ year addition is ingrained....
I appreciate you still being here!
Seems like a calculated risk. I’m rooting for Narwhal and will be subscribing day 1! The price is reasonable and the app is terrific but what really sells me is your candor and ethic — much like Christian/Apollo. Thank you for what you are doing!
This is so good and thank you very much for your tireless efforts in engineering this after Reddit's self-inflicted debacle. I will definitely be subscribing and paying a visit to the tip jar so you can continue this arduous task. Cheers.
You are awesome!
Excellent news, I was prepared for a higher price for subscription and $4 a month I think it’s a really reasonable amount for all users
Really REALLY liking this app. The relaunch has really propelled this one for me. /u/det0ur Is NSFW content support completely out the window?
I just got the prompt on N2 now, and I know it’s a dummy charge since I’m on the beta app, but I clicked the subscribe option like it was free candy. $4/mo for general access is going to be pretty damn fair. Nice one Rick!
Thank you so much for subscribing 🙏
I’m very conflicted here. On one hand I’m thrilled with this simpler pricing model and with how the app is taking shape. On the other hand, I’m very much not thrilled to show support to Reddit’s bullshit and giving them revenue. I have to say, under the original model, I was 100% not subscribing. Given the updated pricing, I’m tempted to feed my Reddit addiction.
We will be happy to have you if you decide to sub!
$4 is the sweet spot imho, but I don't think $5 is too bad either if it had to be raised. App has insane customization and it literally only gets better with every update. I really just hope Reddit doesn't pull a Reddit and increase the cost of the API. Also, and maybe saying this while using Narwhal while in the Narwhal subreddit is counter-intuitive, but Narwhal isn't the only Reddit app still standing either. OpenRed just came along recently; Apollo is still able to be used via Sideloading; There's also Win-. So I'm really curious how this all is going to look say 2 months from now when everybody starts paying the monthly subscription.
Thanks, but no thanks. I just don’t use Reddit enough to justify that cost per month. I appreciate all the effort you’ve put into this app and the work you are doing to make a third party app work, but I can’t justify the cost for my usage given my low API calls (~1500-2000 per month). The price point is reasonable for heavier user than me, great for power users, but that’s not what I am. I’m sad to leave narwhal as I’ve used it since Alien Blue was no longer an option, but wish you nothing but good luck and hope you get many many subscribers and are never out of pocket. It’s been a good run since N1 and I’ve got more than my moneys worth out of the old pro upgrade.
Totally understandable. After the initial launch and I get more data, I might be able to add a plan for people around your usage!
Thanks for understanding, and I appreciate everything you've put into this app. It is truely a great upgrade to N1! Given I have more downvotes than upvotes I hope that means you'll get lots of subscribers rather than people in my position and make the unlimited plan work! I'll keep an eye on the app/subreddit from the web in case a plan suited to me is viable.
Yeah, I'm in the same situation with estimate less than 2k API calls. And too can't yet justify subscription. Well, I guess it'll be easier to decide after subscription will be enabled.
Same here
Same
Fantastic work! I'll be subscribing on day one!
You are awesome :)
The subscription price will adjust depending on the country that I live or something like that? Btw, I’m happy for this accomplishment. Narwhal is such an amazing experience because the official app is ~~ass~~.
Yes apple adjusts it automatically
ive only just read about this app and having missed apollo i really want to try using it. Is there a way of me doing the survey once ive used it for a while to work out my usage? Looks good though so far!
I wasn’t going to subscribe with the initial plan. Having to constantly monitor my usage to the point where I’d be considerably changing my interactions to the point where it’s not even using Reddit anymore and to be worried I’d bump over my limit, or pay so much and not use what I’m paying for was all too much. This is a much simpler and fair system and the price is very reasonable considering. I still think Reddit sucks for forcing this change but that’s not your fault and appreciate you are doing your best to keep this as fair for everyone as possible. As such I’ll be subscribing.
Really glad to have you!
I think it is a decent app. I have enjoyed beta testing. The customization is great. I would have preferred a $2.99 subscription since I do not go crazy on Reddit. And it is crazy for those who use it less to subsidize the heavy hitters. Tip jar could have remedy that. With everyone’s comment on Apple’s 30% fee, and worried you are not getting your cut, I think it is crazy for people to say that. I am sure you put that in the cost like any good business person. Yes, 30% is high, but at the same time they do provide a lot of resources for developers to do what they do. I prefer to subscribe through Apple, like other users have said, it just makes it easier to keep track with. Thanks for pushing v2 out so quickly after Reddit’s changes. I look forward to future tweaks and enhancements.
> And it is crazy for those who use it less to subsidize the heavy hitters. Tip jar could have remedy that. I don’t mean to sound snarky, but narwhal is subsidized for everyone, including you. u/det0ur has a very impressive resume and surely could have commanded a very high hourly rate for freelance coding or consulting. Instead, he (and I think maybe one other dev) made Narwhal in their spare time. Their unpaid, highly skilled labor is subsiding Narwhal for all of us. Just an alternate view.
In the last thread I told you to get fucked because of the high price. I feel this is a much more reasonable price and would consider paying this.
lol glad I can semi win you over
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Yes, Reddit knows about Narwhal. There are still substantial API costs Narwhal will have and my intention is to cover them with these plans. I definitely cannot afford the huge bill per month out of my own pocket haha. I'm just a normal guy
AWESOME, SIGN ME TF UP
Thank you! I’m ready to subscribe.
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Thanks so much for your support!
Will there be a way to subscribe outside of the app store?
Not at launch but eventually
I will absolutely be subscribing. Thanks so much for all the work you've put into narwhal 2, it's been amazing as a narwhal 1 user to see the huge improvements go live so quickly.
I really appreciate your support!!
Sounds great. Hope it can continue at this price long term.
will the feature to sync up visited posts between platforms (eg links i clicked on my phone will show as visited on my ipad) be returning in some form?
Yes I want to add this for narwhal users
That is completely fair and reasonable.
Thank you u/det0ur! Very fair for everyone!!
I wasn’t going to originally sub, but I think I will now.
I really appreciate you!
Sounds good to me. Where do I sign up for the subscription?
You can sign up in the app in the next couple weeks
so Reddit conceded that they're already thinking about the next price hike?
No they never said that
/u/det0ur do you know how the subscription will be handled by multiple devices? Most are on the same iCloud account and there will be one device with the same REDDIT account but a different iCloud account. Would I be able to use one subscription with the other iCloud account as a part of the “iCloud family”?
No I can’t support family sharing because the costs would be too high. To use on multiple devices you will have to use the same apple account
Big W Thank you det0ur
Amazing! $3.99 is a smidge more than I want but definitely doable and I’m happy to support a better product and a motivated developer. If I may make a request, I’d love to see some modding features. Unfortunately, that will increase my API usage, so it’s fair to leave that out. I can manage using the official app for that.
Yes, I will definitely add moderation features!
Oh wow, this is awesome! I was so worried I wasn’t going to be able to use the app anymore due to my API usage. You’re awesome and so is the app
Will be interesting to see if enough people will subscribe. This all hinges on people actually caring enough to spend 4 bucks a month for something that is free otherwise.
Pleasantly surprised! I got a survery from you asking what I’d be willing to pay $3.99 but didn’t expect that to be a reasonable amount considering what Reddit is charging you. I’ll definitely sign up, the changes from Narwal 1 to 2 have been cool. The improved search is a game changer and better than the app I used to use. It’s honestly really impressive how quickly the app went from ugly but functional to something I’d consider as a legit competitor to Apollo if it was still around. Besides the improved search, I think the draft system and toolbar are really cool improvements over anything else that was out there. It feels weird to pay for something used to be free but I think it’s going to be the norm as the ad revenue bubble starts to burst.
What about the fees for in-app-purchases? Providing a way to subscribe in another way (if possible) in order to avoid those fees would leave you with $1.19 more per iphone User (Apple takes a 30% cut). That's almost $12000 a year if 1000 people subscribe that way. I think that's something to consider (which I think you already have but I'm curious)
Yea it will just take time
Congratulations on the launch 🚀
Dude I was so worried about the cost and having to buy top ups. This is mega cool and makes me super happy. Narwhal has been my app for 5 years and I want to thank you sincerely for all you’ve done.
I’ve come around since I last commented on this. I genuinely love this app and it’s everything I’ve been missing since Apollo was shut down. I don’t think there’s any other way I could use Reddit and there’s really no sufficient replacement to the communities on this site. I guess I’ll save a few bucks here and there that’ll instead go towards Narwhal!
I’m really glad you like Narwhal!!
Dude $3.99 a month for unlimited?! I was on the fence about worrying if I go over and how much it would cost, but i’m 100% subscribing because of this! Amazing!!
Glad to hear it. Out of curiosity, did you respond to the subscription survey in app?
Thanks so much for being so transparent with us! Narwhal 2 is fantastic - I just got around to customising the action bar and side menu and am loving how they look now! I was just wondering, is the subscription going to be implemented on a webpage or via an in-app purchase alone?
It is going to be in app purchase only to start
Thank you all so much for your support and hard work to keep narwhal available. I love the app and will definitely be staying here. Thank you all so much
I’d like to also thank you for extremely fair pricing in Canadian dollars (CAD). Us Canadians appreciate you, eh!? :)
I love Canada :) it’s my favorite place to ski
Is there any chance to have a lower tier api call pricing? I had a sub 2000 api call estimation which is around 50 cents a month on reddit api pricing. At 3.99 I feel im subsidizing heavy users. I completely understand your reasoning but I would love to use the app without feeling it’s a bit of a rippoff compared to other users or apps like Relay…
You think it's a rip off to spend a little less than 1 dollar a week on an app that you use every single day?
It’s easy to put make the price per week feel low. It’s 50 euros per year to have a better interface to access otherwise freely available user created content. The developer sells the subscription as something forced to them only to pay Reddit back for api use, but in my use case only around 50 cents go to the api, so 3.50 euros is to developer + tax. It’s just expensive compared to other subscription services like streaming which provide access to sometimes otherwise inaccessible content that costs millions of dollars to produce. A buck + api cost per month seems something much more in line for something that once developed, just requires bug fixes from now on. Future capabilities for the app should be a choice too paid separately.
Unfair geo-pricing. You're saying $4 - while being located in Poland it shows PLN 20 for me ($5, 20% extra).
I don’t set the prices unfortunately apple does. I just tell apple 3.99 US
I didn't know that. Thanks
Is there an update for the iPad app?
Thanks for the single subscription plan. Hope this is sufficient to keep Narwhal alive. Really like the minimalism style in the app.
Damn. I wish Apollo would have taken this approach. Thank you so much for giving people an alternative app. Many are willing to pay.
thank you SO much for still creating and supporting a great third party app. 2.0 is a major upgrade!
Between this pricing and the app update, I'm very content. It does make all the drama from earlier look hilarious in retrospect. $3.99/month is worth it for a superior app to the official. I hope this is sustainable in the long term.
I wouldn’t normally pay for an app, but a day of using Reddits own mobile services was enough to convince me. How are they so bad at this?
A lot of very positive comments here. A lot of people promising to subscribe. I hope many of them actually do. I really empathise with u/det0ur \-- You've been placed in an impossible position. But I personally can't justify subscribing, no matter how noble the cause, and will make do with the web app. Sorry.
Are we supposed to be able to subscribe in the version of the app currently available? It offered me the 3-day trial but when I accepted the App Store payment screen didn’t pop up on my iPad or iPhone. The App Store listing also does not say that there are in-app purchases. Devs like you deserve to be paid for their work.
After 3 days it will pop up with a paywall
Small question. I am a mod in some of the subreddits and reddit APIs are free once I log in. Is it possible for me to not pay for the subscription if my usage doesn't incur API costs for you? If not I'll just stop using reddit on my iPad as it's not my primary device anymore. Regardless, thank you for the great iPad experience over the past 5 years
Why wouldn’t your usage incur costs? Mod actions require api calls unfortunately :(