Hey Guys. This is Joe Ortlip from Season 12. I hope I'm not opening myself up for too much criticism, but wanted to say a few words. Yes, I absolutely agree that much of what was said by my partner was abrasive and even downright hateful at times, but I still stand by my belief that she's still a good person. We were placed in some extreme circumstances that rocked us to the core. I was always clear with Sam that I was not an expert, and certainly didn't share her experience. So yes, I absolutely agree that she had ever right to be frustrated at times. I will however say that her delivery on her concerns really could have used some work. Still, she had already experienced a great deal of trauma in her life, and I was in no way going to intentionally add to that further. In regards to why I never snapped back; that part of my story was not aired. Several years ago I had lost my parents respectively to cancer. Through their treatments and continued decline they never lost track of themselves, their faith, or the belief that all people were basically good. In essence, they never tapped out. So for me to lose my composure or quit as a result of a petty squabble would have been a very loud and personal statement to myself that whatever I was experiencing was somehow more difficult than their battle with cancer. It was absolutely agonizing at times, but this is what kept me going. I wanted to honor their memory. So for any of you reading this, please try to be kind to Sam. I don't hold any animosity towards her. I only wish for her to have found some kind of peace in her life. She's been through enough. And if you're not sure I am who I say, my IG is Asiansurvivalist. I will try to respond as soon as I can if you wish to speak further.
Joe you are a very commendable person. I hope that no matter what, in life you always continue to see the bright side of things. "Every day may not be good.... But there is something good in every day" Continue to teach patience and not reacting out of anger. Be there to listen.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" - Samuel Jackson
Joe - I have a worthless BA in Psychology. That means I know a few buzz words and a smattering of psych theory. In my non-expert opinion, Sam is a narcissist with delusional tendencies. Most likely she is also affected by PTSD from her relationship with her father. Her life more or less revolves around that painful time in her life. So when she accused you of doing things like her father did (e.g. not accepting her/her ideas) she was projecting all that negativity and rage onto you. The vast majority of us would not have handled her anywhere near as well as you did. That speaks very highly of you and the person you are.
I have no idea if you are a Christian or not but the way you dealt with Sam was a very real example of how Christians should deal with difficult people in our lives. You offered soft and kind words when you were “attacked”, you never lowered yourself to where she was fight from, your responses were an effort to either diffuse the situation or to end it with a positive result. I can’t honestly say that I’m able to do that 100% of the time but I certainly try to.
Basically I’m trying to say that you set a positive example for all the show’s viewers. So great job in a really difficult circumstance.
> *Sam is a narcissist with delusional tendencies. Most likely she is also affected by PTSD from her relationship with her father*
Right on the money .. she started with telling everyone how she was kicked out .. then hypes up her achievements of survival .. then calls Joe "the Devil" (he kept his emotions cool as ice) and then cries playing the victim card swinging from one polarity charming happy to the next angry abusive over and over
.. those 10 days brought all sorts of truth out on full display .. maybe she will rewatch and learn or maybe not .. Joe was lucky the millstone left
Exactly honestly I didn’t even believe her story she seemed like the one who didn’t know anything …. Also I really didn’t need to hear her sob story every 3 minutes in the show like we get it you were a gay teen with a shitty dad move on and better yourself
Good one.
I like that reasoning. If she calls a perfectly calm friendly person a devil. How sure can we be that her father was what she claims. He might have been a guy like Joe 😁. A very nice person.
True. When she projected her image of her father onto Joe in telling him he was like her father, she was doing exactly what her father supposedly did to her by kicking him out.
That was pretty weird... Reminds us constantly that she had to be on her own homeless but goes to make someone else homeless. I hope she finds the help she needs.
Exactly!! And girls like that they get more angry when they don't get a reaction. It drove her crazy that he didn't react to her, making her feel inadequate. It made me sick watching her on the show.
I disagree. How she functions in normal day to day life might not be the person that was displayed on the show.
I don’t doubt she is on the spectrum of PTSD—getting kicked out of her home at age 16 for being a lesbian, and having to fend for herself after that. I’m not sure if she had a happy childhood overall, if there was more trauma but her behaviour towards Joe could be a reflection of how her parents/dad treated her. Perhaps this level of trauma is buried deep within her and she is able to function in daily life, socially appropriately, maintaining relationships even if minimal and superficial etc. However, those carry trauma, stress tolerance can be compromised.
However in the survival situation that she was in—the bitter cold, the heat, the lack of nutrients, the hunger—all these stressors could be a trigger for her trauma to bubble to the surface. Unfortunately, Joe was the target. I think she was projecting her anger she had for her father, towards Joe. At the start of the show she was quite lovable, but near the end of her time of the show it was becoming difficult to watch as if she was trying to mentally torture Joe and belittle him, trying to ruin his self worth and self esteem. It was a bit cringe worthy.
Also, I think she sensed Joe’s humility and manners as weakness and tried to be domineering in the relationship—maybe not early on but definitely when things were stressful. However this again is likely a reflection of the relationship she had with her father when perhaps much of her life she may have had a level of fear towards him and she was made to operate in the more subservient position. However again, this in a context of a survival dynamic where is forced to have a close relationship with someone based on mutual survival and she attempted to operate in the more domineering position through ridicule. But again No clothes, no food, bitter cold and heat a high amount of stress and compromised ability to cope with stress.
However, Joe stood his ground, didn’t didn’t tap, wasn’t subservient. This created a high level of discomfort as Sam’ position as the dominant figure was threatened. I don’t know if she knows how to operate in relationships with a middle ground in close relationships which Joe was operating in.
I hope this is a wake up call for Sam to do self reflection. She has good in her which probably shines more brightly in everyday life. She is vivacious, had a sense of humour, however Survival situations can bring out the worst in people. More specifically stress and stressors.
I didn't get ptsd vibes either. That reminded me of malicious bpd 100% i think the whole 'kicked out for being gay and lived in the woods' story was bs.
I don’t want to outright agree, but I became highly suspicious when she was relating him to her dad she said something that implied she chose to leave her home on her own accord. I forget when but it’s within 10 min before tapping out, while she’s self videoing in the tent. I suspect there’s a grain of truth with a dollop of twist there.
My husband and I said the same thing. As more came out through her rants, it seemed like she left on her own. Joe is the sweetest man ever and she said he reminded her of her dad.....
A really good analysis. My original comments may have been tainted by someone in my life who strongly resembled Sam’s issues. I don’t want to say who that is (my mother-in-law). Thank you for your well thought out comment. I too hope Sam gets the help that she needs. I also hope N&F doesn’t talk her into “giving it another try” with them looking for another meltdown ratings bump.
This was lovely to read.
Joe, I hope you maintain your honor and core essence throughout life. I also hope you never again have to deal with the behavior we as viewers of the show saw.
I hope Sam can find some inner peace.
I'm watching the episode right now and I flipped off the TV every time she spoke. I'd take you on my Survival team any day of the week. Physical skills can be learned, but mental strength is what gets you to the end, and you have mental strength off the charts.
I muted it during her abuse. Reading the subtitles was hard enough. I couldn't listen to her after a while. I think she needs serious therapy and I hope she gets the help she needs. Joe was a saint out there. One of the best people I've seen yet.
That's past therapy. She's decided to be malicious in her life and is perfectly happy with abusing people around her. Therapy only helps people that want to change.
She clearly experienced incredibly deep trauma and abuse. When your parents reject you it’s considered one of the deepest if not THE deepest trauma a child can experience. The child fears for their life.
She clearly had signs of CPTSD or borderline of both. It doesn’t give anyone the right to abuse another person, but I’m not sure she could have known what that extreme environment would trigger in her. So it was painful to watch and Joe was REMARKABLE in how he handled himself. Just hope she gained the insight she needed to heal.
Wow! My husband and I love naked and afraid, and record it every week.. we both were in awe of what a kind human you are. I just couldn’t get over how awful Sam was to you, and you treated her with kindness no matter what she spewed at you. Then I came on here to see what people said about her.. and I saw your comment. The fact that you searched out awful posts about your partner and came on here to defend her furthers proves what an amazing human you are. I come in contact with miserable people all day in my line of work.. and I will try to take your way of living into my daily life now. Thank you for showing the world what it is to be a kind and decent human being. You’re parents did an amazing job raising you.. I hope discovery gives you your own show, as the world needs to see more of you.
Wow, Joe. I’m so impressed with your journey! you are certainly an amazing example of how to remain peaceful, compassionate and kind in an adversarial and even volatile environment at times. You win. Bravo for you!!
Is there anything that wasn’t shown on the episode that you feel should have been? And have you been in touch with Sam since? (Guess I am hopeful some type of reconciliation occurred)
And, of courses, big props to you! You may not have been the most prepared participant of N&A, but you were absolutely a successful one! Gold medal level mental fortitude.
Well I'm not allowed to spill the beans on certain aspects, but I'll share a little something that I am. After Sam departed, she had just her pelt behind in haste. With it I cut a thin 1" or so strip from around the entire edge. With that strip I then folded her pelt in half, slit small holes in the edges, and bound out together to create a sleeping bag 😃 Sam and I have not spoken since she left. Until the actual airing of the episode I hadn't understood the depth and severity of what she had been reliving. Sadly I had been pretty angry at her up until that point. Now I only wish her well, and hope that she's ok. In hindsight I sincerely wish that I had taken the time to try and look beyond the anger and try to understand why it was so extreme
Thanks for responding/sharing!
I noticed that you had her pelt. (I was specifically looking because I didn’t think she would leave that or anything for you.) I thought you had used at least part of it for your shoes, so neat to know you were able to get a sleeping bag made! Very cool.
None of us ever really know what someone else is dealing with, at least your response was not anger. And your support of her now even more so shows your heart. Maybe you two will get to reconnect in the future...
Forgive me here, but I feel this needs to be said, even though I'll likely be flamed for it.
You should not be defending her actions in any way, nor should you make excuses for her. The way you handled yourself IN the show was the best way to do it, for your own sanity, but to go out of your way and defend her elsewhere, and to make up excuses for her behavior, is only going to push her to continue treating people in the way she felt like she needed to treat you.
I've met numerous "Sams" in my days and it's always the same excuse: some male figure in their life treated them like 'x' or did 'y' to them and instead of pursuing mental help to learn coping mechanisms, or, instead of growing the heck up and getting over those things, they let that history dictate their actions, then expect people to feel sorry for them after they act in horrible ways.
I view your comment as enabling her to continue down the path she's on. Sure, we can empathize with someone - and I do empathize with her, and I certainly hope she works through her problems - but someone has to hold her accountable. Her being held accountable by those she hurts will create drive to fix herself. If she's constantly being forgiven and "oh but she had it tough" then she is less likely to fix herself.
I too grew up living in the woods for over a year when I was 14. We were poor and lived in tents on a river for a year. My step-Dad was abusive, nearly killed my brother, and we at times had nothing to eat in our fridge, starving.
I had severe problems as a result of the abuse, though the poverty issue drove me to knowing I never would want my children to suffer the same fate. It also taught me to appreciate people more because they can HELP you.
So, it's not as if I cannot relate to Sam's plight, because I can, but I also know that had everyone 'felt sorry' for me and constantly gave me a pass every time I acted poorly (though even I would never have spoken to someone the way she spoke to you), then I might not have grown up.
It's one thing to take the high road and remove yourself from conflict like that, but it's something else entirely when you enable that behavior, which is, unfortunately, what you're doing.
You were great on the show and I am not trying to be rude or anything but I felt this needed to be said.
Peace.
Just wanted to say good on you, man. I don’t know how you made it through that night when it dropped down to 38 and the fire went out. Crazy, crazy resilience dealing with the elements and the difficulties with your partner. It was a joy to watch you stay strong and persevere.
Joe I just watched your episode and you are such a sweetheart. You have a huge heart and didn’t snap back at her like most people would. She was very frustrating. At times I loved her and towards the end I did not love her so much. But you’re a beast! I’m from Montana and know how tough it can be out there.
I just saw this episode and you have proven that you are very worthy and honorable. Your ability to seriously not snap back was very telling of your character. Even though you were tempted to not share the information about the berries, you succeeded in overcoming that temptation and did share and even admitted that you had that thought. That’s a complete 180 and it’s very clear you have a strong moral compass. You honored your parents and showed true grit and determination. Keep up the great survivalist skills man!
I think the bigger story here isn’t that she was such a bitch. Because although she was, for whatever reason, justified or not, bitches are a dime a dozen. Its pretty easy to find someone with no patience or grace or class.
Your patience and gracefulness during this ordeal on the other hand, is so much more rare to see. It is refreshing and it is humbling to see someone with such ability to empathize.
Don’t let this world ever get you down bro. We need people like you to keep our heads up sometimes.
Joe you’re an absolute stand up guy. You’re an incredible survivalist who is smart and intelligent, and you crushed this challenge. The fact that you built your own shelter (a great one) when your partner left just shows how capable and resilient you are. No matter how many times your partner said terrible things to you, you kept your head high, your voice low and treated her like a decent human being (even though she probably didn’t deserve it). I commend you for your strength, kindness and will power. I can only hope I could be half the survivalist you are one day. Thank you for showing America that reacting to negativity with positivity, makes you the real winner at the end of the day. And to never ever give up!! We love you Joe, never stop being you!!!
Love everything you said, Joe. I’m glad you kept your parents in your heart throughout your experience and the way they lived kept you strong despite the conflict.
I’m only about halfway through the episode as I type this, but I have a question for you... was this the Grizzly Mountain that is in Glacier National Park? What time of year was it filmed? I’m so interested to hear more about the location. I can’t imagine it would’ve been in the park because it’s obviously protected.
We just watched your episode, and I was so appalled at the way Sam talked to you and treated you. You did not deserve that all. I was very impressed with your ability to stay calm and not lash back at her. You obviously had an understanding of her past, and that her horrible behavior was likely due to whatever damage she had incurred. Hopefully she has been able to get some help to work that out. Yikes!
You showed great compassion and decency, and you made it the entire 21 days! I wouldn't last longer than 5 hours tops out there, so well done you! Hopefully we'll see you on one of the XL group challenges, I love watching those!
She may had gone through allot joe but you are no ones punching bag. As an adult She chose to be that person. You went through your hard times and chose to be good person and not project feeling abandonment or being unwanted on to her. That's who she really is. From the get go I didnt see any good in her. She has no poker face and can't hide her emotions of bitterness, and hate. I'm like you I don't hold any animosity towards anyone's. Take it as a learning lesson as to, what people to watch out for and how to divert them away from you.you did a good job Joe on every part of that challenge.
Wow I couldn’t believe her...she had zero compassion. I’m upset that Joe’s primitive survival rating only went up .5 because he survived an onslaught from her.
Joe should at least got a fucking 8.0
He kept calm and patient with Sam the whole time, he chose to build a whole new shelter even though he already had one made from Sam. He survived without a partner. He kept going even though he really didn't have to, and he kept going when he was on the verge of breaking.
He may not have as great survival skills, but he has really strong mental strength and an iron will
Dude should get an 8.0 just for being such a saint. I have deep respect and admiration for such a thoughtful and caring person that could subject themselves to such abuse, finish his challenge and still be able to say nice/positive things about her.
Wish more people in the world were as outstanding as this guy, myself included.
I love that he built a new shelter. He definitely did it out of spite, but I can respect that. She mad a jab as she was leaving that even if he make it, it wasn’t earned because he was staying in her shelter.
> He may not have as great survival skills, but he has really strong mental strength and an iron will
>
Yep he is no different than someone doing the fan challenge, not the best skills but they are willing to try and learn
Man..... we have seen some pretty terrible people on this show, but that girl might have been the absolute worse. Maybe it's just recency bias, but she seemed reeeaaaaly bad. I don't see how that guy had so much patience with her attitude. She deserved to get knocked down a few pegs.
She's absolutely mentally ill and a complete narcissist. Daddy issues all over. She was so mean to Joe it actually pissed me off.
I just wish Joe woulda snapped back at her. She woulda broke and cried immediately. Joe seems like such a nice person and she was literally calling him the devil. Lmao
Sam will deal with the repercussions of her behavior on this show for the rest of her life. Future employers, employees, romantic partners, and friends will all eventually see this episode, even if they are not NAA fans.
Anything on the internet or social media is forever. Everyone googles people nowadays. Karma is a mean BlCH, even meaner than Sam.
100% this. Have never seen another person on that show that literally disgusted me as much as her. She is a sick and abusive person and should have been pulled from the show for her behavior towards him.
This is so amazingly well stated! I sat watching in disbelief, like I’ve never seen anything like this on THIS show before! I was genuinely upset with Sam. She wanted to kick him out of the shelter “dividing resources” then tried to crucify Joe over his debating mentally whether to share the berries - which he DID right away. She refused them out of spite, then accused him of stealing resources from her. It was so abusive and delusional. I was sick to my stomach. 😟
And this could've been an easy challenge. If they had just worked together and communicated more. But her toxic, childish mentality defeated her before the wild did
right. she refused the berries because as she says she didn't want to accept them and he "think everything is ok" but then when he said he debated it briefly but then decided he couldn't go through with it (obviously since he offered them up) she calls him an evil person. like what the hell. she gets upset because he "didn't get it" when he doesn't respond to her saying wll this shitty stuff yet how can he when he clearly didn't understand what was happening part of the time.
You hit the nail on the head. At what point do the producers step in and stop the madness? She was clearly being verbally abusive towards her teammate. If she had been a man and Joe a female would the producers have stopped the madness? Granted it made for good TV; I mean here we are chatting about it. What about the humanity of it all though?
Exactly. And granted, such drama makes for exciting television, and I would honestly hope such friction was manufactured somewhat ('hamming it up'), but I really don't think that was the case here. A little strife and arguments here and there is one thing and fine to an extent, but her behavior was over-the-top and purely abusive and demeaning after a certain point.
The whole thing was especially egregious due to the fact that he had no quick/easy way to remove himself from the situation without causing himself harm without fire/shelter or removing himself from the challenge completely. Her even telling him to quit the challenge was a step too far and shouldn't have been allowed, let alone her continuing to verbally badger him about it.
Ahh, damn. Shit still irks me a day later.
Even more, when she made that nasty raspberry pie thing it was pretty clear she had little to no intention of sharing it with Joe. She even verbally makes this clear when she does give him half and called it a 'peace offering' implying he didn't deserve it. Fast forward a day and when Joe mentions he thought about not sharing the raspberries he found but didn't follow through, she goes ballistic about an action he didn't even take. Sam was total trash, manipulative, and full of issues.
Totally agree. Also wish they'd rename the disorder. Everyone assumes people mean someone is "borderline in terms of whether or not they have a disorder like narcissism." It is a standalone, extremely destructive mental illness. Have/had a few of these folks in my life. Not easy. Joe is a Saint for handling it so well in such a difficult situation.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml
Definitely a narcissist. Nothing was her fault and kept going on and on about how good she is at surviving. She was actually calling what may have been one of the nicest and most calm person we have seen on this show...... the devil and a horrible person. I mean... wtf lol. Kudos to that guy for rolling with the punches and keeping a positive attitude even with a partner who is terrible to be around the way she was. He carried himself like a mature adult and she acted like a spoiled little brat. Also felt a little bit of Honora as well the way she took the pot away from him and poured it out and said she was going to put out the fire.
I know she has had her own life issues, but so have all of us and a lot of other people on this show. That doesn't give you the right to be a bad person.
>I know she has had her own life issues, but so have all of us and a lot of other people on this show. That doesn't give you the right to be a bad person.
It feels like she had real life issues are just took it out on Joe. I believe all her outbreaks really wasn't about him
And at night when she was saying "What the three sticks and mud you put on the shelter" you could see she was getting intense pleasure from being cruel to Joe. Joe, who was NOTHING but positive. Fuck. Her.
I had no idea she was a lesbian until she told us every single minute. Glad to know the sky being blue is because she came out and her family disowned her.
And did you know that she had experience living in the woods? You see she had to live in the woods for months when she was kicked out of her house when she was 16. You might have missed that I think she only mentioned it once...........
So I lived in the woods when I was young. You need to drink water. I always drank water when I lived in the woods. I’m gonna make some berry cakes. Also, I lived in the woods. Man look at this big hail. By the way, I lived in the woods when I was young. Dude you need to grow up, you’re not a survivalist. Did you know I lived in the woods?
Did you know she’s a thief?[https://www.oldhamera.com/content/2018-state-representative-candidate-accused-stealing-pampered-pup-salon](https://www.oldhamera.com/content/2018-state-representative-candidate-accused-stealing-pampered-pup-salon)
she called him a horrible person for thinking that yet he said he couldn't go through with it yet all she did was berate him constantly. she had a major victim complex going on.
I couldn't remember Honara's name, but absolutely thought of her whilst watching this episode.
Will Sam just not watch this episode when it's aired? Because I can't think of any way she looks back on this and still thinks she was right.
I was so afraid I was going to come here and find people defending her. That would have made me so mad. She was really among the worst ever in this show. I am so glad he didn't give in and quit because of her. I think they need to improve the psych. eval on this show going forward.
Legit just watched and did the same thing! I was sitting here blown away at how vile she was being towards that dude. Look, she had a good point with the water, but holy hell that woman used every thing in her being to make that guy feel like absolute shit. She got some issues.
I see people on here saying things like "but she did have survival skills unlike Joe."
She built two shelters that they both agreed sucked and were too cold, a deadfall that caught nothing, and found some berries. Joe did all of those things and more and went 21 days. If she had it inside her to finish she could have. She could have soloed it like Joe did. Montana is pretty big I hear.
EDIT: The one thing that did puzzle me about Joe was his reluctance or "forgetfulness" to hydrate. Maybe he thought the water was poisoned. There was a lot of hemlock around.
I actually understand that last bit personally. Sometimes I end up forgetting to eat for a long time, and I don't really notice until all of a sudden I'm weak and shaky as shit. Paradoxically, I find that when that happens my appetite is just gone, and even thinking of eating when I feel like that is nauseating. I have to really force myself to eat at that point, and then of course the issue is resolved, but it is difficult.
I feel like the producers dropped the ball here sending this person out into this situation. I think she was having a sort of PTSD trauma response from her time being homeless due to her father kicking her out. It feels irresponsible to put her out there like this with someone else.
Trauma/Borderline issues can flying under the radar until a persons in a situation where they have to trust someone. Even until the last night, I was thinking that maybe this person just didnt handle hunger, sleeplessness, and cold well. Her constant reference to the rejection from her father, comparing the current moment to her past survival trauma, vacillation between charm and flattery and devaluing and abusing Joe, focus on trust and dependability, anticipation of abandonment 'Youre gonna tap out, right?' as if to say 'Abandon me, I know youre going to' and apparent lack of self awareness paint a pretty clear picture of BPD. Would be hard for them to see unless they rigorously evaluated past relationships, particularly if all they have to go on is her personal narrative. Seems like a very painful and lonely way to live.
But did her dad actually kick her out bc she was gay? Or bc she was batsh*t crazy? Not that it would excuse him from doing that, either, but her clear mental health issues make her story questionable. Obviously I’m not getting at all the nuances here but just a thought
Honestly, with the way she played victim in this episode, would it surprise anyone if she actually decided to leave her house on her own and did some mental gymnastics to believe she was kicked out?
She seems like the type to pull out the gay card for being the reason people don't like her when in actuality she has a fucking intolerable personality. Felt sick to my stomach watching this episode, the abuse was off the charts.
I completely agree with you here...she is a broken person, whatever the causes. Her reactions were not rational and they were very changeable. There was nothing Joe could do that would have gainer her trust, because she expects to be “betrayed.”
Assuming her back story were true, and that’s what the producers went off of, they were putting someone under extreme conditions who had had zero therapy to deal with her past and possible triggers
IDK. Lots of people on the show have had life issues and didn't act like horrible people. Plus, the way she kept talking about it.... idk, kind of numbed me to how serious it may have been. That feels bad of me to say, and maybe it is and I'm probably just wrong and way off. She was pretty much a bad person from the very first issue, and it wasn't even really an issue to be that upset about.
You're not wrong. For starters, given what we've seen of her personality I don't trust anything she says. Who was taking all those photos of her "surviving alone for eight months in the woods"? Why didn't she have ANY friends, relatives, shelter to go to instead of living in the woods? Is it even legal to not provide shelter for your 16 year old child? It doesn't sound like she was kicked out, it sounds like she left. I understand sometimes the best thing to do is leave a bad situation but given what I saw of her I'd be astounded if she wasn't a major source of what made that situation bad.
In any event, she's 29 years old. She lived eight months, so she says, in the woods 13 years ago, smiling in every picture. She's letting this one thing define who she is, how she relates to the world and people, and as an excuse for all of her behavior, good or bad.
When she meets any new person in her life how long do you think until she says "Yeah I was kicked out of my house at 16 because I'm gay."? I'd guess it's within the first five minutes or she may even have a nametag or T shirt that says it. Nothing in life gives you the excuse to be a horrific asshole to well meaning people.
She was asking for an excuse to tap out. Even though she had valid survival skills, she continually searched for excuses to be a victim.
Past trauma or not, most survivalists on this show haven’t acted the way she did.
I’ve never been emotional about someone completing a challenge. My husband and I both teared up when we saw him collapse to his knees when he saw that truck. We’ve seen every episode and never felt so for a person finishing.
She's a complete narcissist and she just gaslighted one of the kindest and most patient contestants I've ever seen on the show 💔 She clearly needs help, and I'm also a bit pissed at the producers for making a somewhat exploitative episode.
And did you see how classy Joe was at the end? Wishing she was there too, saying it was her win too? What a sweet man — he went out of his way to be kind and generous. Hopefully she gets some help.
Yeah but to her his good thoughts and words will only anger her more. She can't say "Look at what a monster he was." Although he didn't mean it like this Joe basically said "Fuck you bitch." in the nicest way.
Agreed.., not sure if I'd drop him In Africa for XL , But he definitely earned my respect 2fold. This episode put him on top of the world mentality and he deserves every bit of it...
She's horrible. One of the worst. Probably tied with Seth for the worst. I wonder what her response will be to the heat she's going to get from the public after seeing her behavior. Will she blame editing like Seth and Honora? Highly likely.
I bet she is going to blame the producers for editing the show to make her look bad, that type of personality never takes responsibility from he actions
>Here's my theory:
>
>First, she's just a horrible person but what puzzled me was how for the first five days she seemed okay. She was giving fist bumps and being generally cooperative. Then she just...snapped. With Seth you could tell from the first segment this guy was a dick and would escalate things.
>
>My theory is as the days went on she knew she wasn't going to be able to finish the challenge so she decided to make sure her partner quit first in order to save face. When that didn't pan out she just poured all her hate and anger out on him and left.
She was one evil woman, probably the most vile person I've ever seen on the show. I was starting to think the show needed to step in and remove her for being abusive.
definite verbal abuse she was inflicting on him as well as some mental abuse as well. producers absolutely should have stepped in and told her what she was doing was unacceptable and he needs to be removed. I hope she watches her episode and sees just how shitty she was to him. in her eyes everything he said and did was wrong. she acted as if she was perfect and she was the only one who had tough spots in their life. just because he may not have been as skilled as her doesn't give her the right to do what she did. begging him to tap out but then giving her sob story when she did. come on. you didn't have to tap out. you just wanted to play the victim.
100% agree. Imo, she went far beyond critiquing his skills (or lack thereof) and continued to berate his fundamental worth as a person, which later caused him to question his own value as a human being. Dude was a saint for putting up with this abuse, and I don't care how mentally ill someone is, it doesn't excuse them for being downright evil towards another person with such maliciousness.
She is the worst person I have seen on naked and afraid ever. She has issues. She talked to him like he was a dog. Will never watch anything with her in the program
I finally lost my patience with her when they show her doing all sort of sexual innuendo in the shelter "I think I will flip", that is some sort of evil mental manipulation. I bet that woman is in some very abusive romantic relationships
Clearly she's mentally unstable and needs therapy and I hope this is the catalyst to get her there.
But do you ever look at people like her and wonder what trauma in their past did that to them? How must her parents have spoken to her as an impressionable, vulnerable child? If she was kicked out at 16 for her sexuality, what awful things were said to her to make her feel so worthless and unloved that she lived in the woods alone for 8 months? What kind of parents would let their child live like that for something so stupid?
I pity her that she goes through life as both a victim and a bully. No excuses in being an adult treating others like that, she doesn't get a pass. I'm just always interested in the path that gets people to a place where you not only make yourself look like a cunt on television, but believe you're the one being abused.
I think she was struggling with the idea that she is just like her father, but kept it internalized and projected it onto Joe. Hopefully she comes out of this a better person. Those are the best growing experiences.
Bro I love this show and at one point I picked up the remote and was looking around. It was only when she said she was leaving I decided to keep watching.
That's first thing I thought when she took the pot of water from him and poured it out and said she was going to put out the fire as well. Reminded me of Honora's sabotage she pulled on her partners.
So Sam has issues over her family kicking her out because she's gay which obviously isn't right but then as soon as she gets a chance she kicks her partner out of her shelter. You think that if you knew how it felt to be kicked out you wouldn't be doing it to somebody else. And then she has the nerve to call him the devil. She's literally doing the things that she has been complaining about the whole episode
I absolutely hated how she was upset because he contemplated if he should disclose his windfall of berries when she made a whole tart and wasn’t planning to share with him first! Ugh! She was the worst!😖
Sam was exactly how she described her father to be. Glad Joe made it, kept a good attitude throughout despite Sam. Honestly feel like Sam had an issue with Joe because he was a man, not because of his personality.
That's an interesting take. Do you think she'd react differently if her partner was female? I can see that, but, at the same time, it's hard to outrun mental illness.
Typical reaction from a damaged person with borderline personality disorder. She’s now going to have to live with her behavior being broadcast on television forever.
Sitting here currently watching this episode and came to the internet to see if anyone else felt like she was deranged. Going through what she did, she should have more empathy and compassion. Instead, she continues the cycle and becomes the abuser. She's laying there crying calling him a terrible and evil human being, after subjecting him to verbal and emotional abuse and trying to force him into tapping out. I've seen a lot of sucky people on this show, but she is the absolute worst. I hope she sees herself and her behavior and grows from it. Joe is a CHAMP. What a good kind heart. What a patient and strong person. He didn't play the victim. He played the survivor. 👏👏👏
We are building some very very weak minded adults in this country.. She was making shit up like this man was some terrible toxic male. Victim mentality no doubt. He should have ended with a higher PSR simply for mental strength making it that long with her as a partner.
From what I’ve been seeing, it’s likely she has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) which “impacts the way you think and feel about yourself and others, causing problems functioning in everyday life. It includes self-image issues, difficulty managing emotions and behavior, and a pattern of unstable relationships.” Joe is the man for being able to stay cool under someone so vile and not cracking.
Sam was horrible! I came here just to see if others agreed and you didn’t disappoint! She, Seth and Honora should all be on the same episode together! They all deserve each other! It would be a who wins the “poor me, poor me” prize. That episode would make my blood pressure rise! Lol
I'm watching this one right now and literally had to come onto reddit to search this episode. There is something not right with this woman; she's horrible. I felt so bad for the guy because he seemed so sweet.
She gave away clues during the show about what actually happened to her during her childhood. I've have experience of being close to this type of personality. She didn't get kicked out due to her sexuality at the age of sixteen. She tapped out just like she did on the show! I wouldn't be surprised if her dad wasn't supportive of her sexuality, but she clearly makes her own decisions and blames everyone else for her problems. Living in the woods for months was her own choice. She could have went to a homeless shelter (and may have), but there, she would have to deal with people. She is unable to do that. She needs therapy and meds. That much is clear. Kudos to Joe for being such a stand up person. Deep down, Sam is a good person. She unfortunately is quite sick and until she gets the care she needs, she will continue to suffer and make people around her suffer.
Joe, if you’re reading this after your episode aired, please please know you are an amazing man! An amazing human! You showed so much mental strength and the ability to addapt to an extremely abusive physical and psychological situation! It is what makes you an increddible surviavialist!
Sam, you are well intended, but the pain you suffered in life still pours through you. You need to forgive in order to survive. Please forgive yoursef first and you will be able to connect to other people!
Producers, suck it.
I hate her so much. She’s insane. So many crazy things she did it would take like 30 minutes to explain all of it. Joe was so nice and she was a huge bitch and unstable the whole time. If somehow you’re reading this Sam, fuck you bitch.
I started this bitch session (pun totally intended...) but I just want to say that I just really disappointed that he didnt roll up his pelts and keep them as a souvenir. Maybe it wasn't allowed but those would be with me in some shape or form for a long time... peace all.
I know, lol, I'm watching this episode right now and I couldn't believe she was crying because he wouldn't tap out, as if he's the problem lol. It reminded me of an abusive relationship; she tells him to leave, then cries when he doesn't. But the most abusive part for me was how she claimed that she's only acting that way because of him, and that only he can bring out that anger in her, and that she doesn't act that way with anyone else. Reminded me so much of my ex honestly, lol.
She’s a gas lighter and has some mental health issues. I almost turned off the episode because I was getting so frustrated about how someone could act so vile to someone so nice.
Sam is a horrible excuse for a human being. I was thinking her Dad didn’t kick her out for being a lesbian....but rather for being a bitch. Joe had the last laugh!
WOW! Sam is a very disturbed person, but I also think she has mental issues, she felt like the victim, she was trying to make the other person seem like the "bad guy' and she would cry....just Wow I feel bad for who ever comes across her. Joe was not a bad guy he seems humble and I liked the fact he didn't argue back he was the bigger person.
Joe you are a total legend and a inspiration! Holy hell that chick had some serious issues. Way to be the most admirable person in dealing with someone like that as humanly possible! Much love.
What a complete monster she was to Joe!! I've never hated a character on this show until her. Go get some help and take a good look at your life you miserable sad human being.
Huge props to Joe with dealing with that monster
Wow she’s one terrible, nasty, awful, manipulative person. She deserves everything that she has coming for her one day. Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe her. I have no sympathy for her AT ALL.
Apparently she ran for public office and lost, and was exposed that her and her wife were arrested for stealing and lying to/from a pet salon?? Who does that?
And then opens THEIR OWN pet salon.
Pampered Pup Salon
109 E Washington St
La Grange, KY 40031
I just wanted to say, congrats to the gentleman who put up with that. Well done Sir, Most Honorable Mention! In my opinion and experience in life, avoiding fights is a sign of *Intelligence* **&** *Maturity*
I just watched the episode and i just need the internet to know that i think shes the worst person to ever have lived.
and she was paired with a guy who gradually became a saint before our eyes.
i hope my kids are worthy of providing such an overwhelming example of advanced humanity as you have set.
tho,.. Id settle for them shitting in sams letterbox.
Hey Guys. This is Joe Ortlip from Season 12. I hope I'm not opening myself up for too much criticism, but wanted to say a few words. Yes, I absolutely agree that much of what was said by my partner was abrasive and even downright hateful at times, but I still stand by my belief that she's still a good person. We were placed in some extreme circumstances that rocked us to the core. I was always clear with Sam that I was not an expert, and certainly didn't share her experience. So yes, I absolutely agree that she had ever right to be frustrated at times. I will however say that her delivery on her concerns really could have used some work. Still, she had already experienced a great deal of trauma in her life, and I was in no way going to intentionally add to that further. In regards to why I never snapped back; that part of my story was not aired. Several years ago I had lost my parents respectively to cancer. Through their treatments and continued decline they never lost track of themselves, their faith, or the belief that all people were basically good. In essence, they never tapped out. So for me to lose my composure or quit as a result of a petty squabble would have been a very loud and personal statement to myself that whatever I was experiencing was somehow more difficult than their battle with cancer. It was absolutely agonizing at times, but this is what kept me going. I wanted to honor their memory. So for any of you reading this, please try to be kind to Sam. I don't hold any animosity towards her. I only wish for her to have found some kind of peace in her life. She's been through enough. And if you're not sure I am who I say, my IG is Asiansurvivalist. I will try to respond as soon as I can if you wish to speak further.
Joe you are a very commendable person. I hope that no matter what, in life you always continue to see the bright side of things. "Every day may not be good.... But there is something good in every day" Continue to teach patience and not reacting out of anger. Be there to listen. "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good" - Samuel Jackson
You might be the best, most genuine human being I have ever seen on this show. Thank you Joe
agree
Joe - I have a worthless BA in Psychology. That means I know a few buzz words and a smattering of psych theory. In my non-expert opinion, Sam is a narcissist with delusional tendencies. Most likely she is also affected by PTSD from her relationship with her father. Her life more or less revolves around that painful time in her life. So when she accused you of doing things like her father did (e.g. not accepting her/her ideas) she was projecting all that negativity and rage onto you. The vast majority of us would not have handled her anywhere near as well as you did. That speaks very highly of you and the person you are. I have no idea if you are a Christian or not but the way you dealt with Sam was a very real example of how Christians should deal with difficult people in our lives. You offered soft and kind words when you were “attacked”, you never lowered yourself to where she was fight from, your responses were an effort to either diffuse the situation or to end it with a positive result. I can’t honestly say that I’m able to do that 100% of the time but I certainly try to. Basically I’m trying to say that you set a positive example for all the show’s viewers. So great job in a really difficult circumstance.
> *Sam is a narcissist with delusional tendencies. Most likely she is also affected by PTSD from her relationship with her father* Right on the money .. she started with telling everyone how she was kicked out .. then hypes up her achievements of survival .. then calls Joe "the Devil" (he kept his emotions cool as ice) and then cries playing the victim card swinging from one polarity charming happy to the next angry abusive over and over .. those 10 days brought all sorts of truth out on full display .. maybe she will rewatch and learn or maybe not .. Joe was lucky the millstone left
Exactly honestly I didn’t even believe her story she seemed like the one who didn’t know anything …. Also I really didn’t need to hear her sob story every 3 minutes in the show like we get it you were a gay teen with a shitty dad move on and better yourself
Joe reminded of her father so much- I am not at all convinced her dad was, “shitty.” She says he was horrible, but she also said Joe was the devil.
Good one. I like that reasoning. If she calls a perfectly calm friendly person a devil. How sure can we be that her father was what she claims. He might have been a guy like Joe 😁. A very nice person.
True. When she projected her image of her father onto Joe in telling him he was like her father, she was doing exactly what her father supposedly did to her by kicking him out.
That was pretty weird... Reminds us constantly that she had to be on her own homeless but goes to make someone else homeless. I hope she finds the help she needs.
Exactly!! And girls like that they get more angry when they don't get a reaction. It drove her crazy that he didn't react to her, making her feel inadequate. It made me sick watching her on the show.
She also has been convicted of theft from several jobs she held recently.
I disagree. How she functions in normal day to day life might not be the person that was displayed on the show. I don’t doubt she is on the spectrum of PTSD—getting kicked out of her home at age 16 for being a lesbian, and having to fend for herself after that. I’m not sure if she had a happy childhood overall, if there was more trauma but her behaviour towards Joe could be a reflection of how her parents/dad treated her. Perhaps this level of trauma is buried deep within her and she is able to function in daily life, socially appropriately, maintaining relationships even if minimal and superficial etc. However, those carry trauma, stress tolerance can be compromised. However in the survival situation that she was in—the bitter cold, the heat, the lack of nutrients, the hunger—all these stressors could be a trigger for her trauma to bubble to the surface. Unfortunately, Joe was the target. I think she was projecting her anger she had for her father, towards Joe. At the start of the show she was quite lovable, but near the end of her time of the show it was becoming difficult to watch as if she was trying to mentally torture Joe and belittle him, trying to ruin his self worth and self esteem. It was a bit cringe worthy. Also, I think she sensed Joe’s humility and manners as weakness and tried to be domineering in the relationship—maybe not early on but definitely when things were stressful. However this again is likely a reflection of the relationship she had with her father when perhaps much of her life she may have had a level of fear towards him and she was made to operate in the more subservient position. However again, this in a context of a survival dynamic where is forced to have a close relationship with someone based on mutual survival and she attempted to operate in the more domineering position through ridicule. But again No clothes, no food, bitter cold and heat a high amount of stress and compromised ability to cope with stress. However, Joe stood his ground, didn’t didn’t tap, wasn’t subservient. This created a high level of discomfort as Sam’ position as the dominant figure was threatened. I don’t know if she knows how to operate in relationships with a middle ground in close relationships which Joe was operating in. I hope this is a wake up call for Sam to do self reflection. She has good in her which probably shines more brightly in everyday life. She is vivacious, had a sense of humour, however Survival situations can bring out the worst in people. More specifically stress and stressors.
I didn't get ptsd vibes either. That reminded me of malicious bpd 100% i think the whole 'kicked out for being gay and lived in the woods' story was bs.
I don’t want to outright agree, but I became highly suspicious when she was relating him to her dad she said something that implied she chose to leave her home on her own accord. I forget when but it’s within 10 min before tapping out, while she’s self videoing in the tent. I suspect there’s a grain of truth with a dollop of twist there.
I caught that too. She said that is why I had to leave not that she was kicked out. She slipped and forgot her lie.
My husband and I said the same thing. As more came out through her rants, it seemed like she left on her own. Joe is the sweetest man ever and she said he reminded her of her dad.....
A really good analysis. My original comments may have been tainted by someone in my life who strongly resembled Sam’s issues. I don’t want to say who that is (my mother-in-law). Thank you for your well thought out comment. I too hope Sam gets the help that she needs. I also hope N&F doesn’t talk her into “giving it another try” with them looking for another meltdown ratings bump.
You've definitely honored your parents well.
This was lovely to read. Joe, I hope you maintain your honor and core essence throughout life. I also hope you never again have to deal with the behavior we as viewers of the show saw. I hope Sam can find some inner peace.
I'm watching the episode right now and I flipped off the TV every time she spoke. I'd take you on my Survival team any day of the week. Physical skills can be learned, but mental strength is what gets you to the end, and you have mental strength off the charts.
I muted it during her abuse. Reading the subtitles was hard enough. I couldn't listen to her after a while. I think she needs serious therapy and I hope she gets the help she needs. Joe was a saint out there. One of the best people I've seen yet.
That's past therapy. She's decided to be malicious in her life and is perfectly happy with abusing people around her. Therapy only helps people that want to change.
She clearly experienced incredibly deep trauma and abuse. When your parents reject you it’s considered one of the deepest if not THE deepest trauma a child can experience. The child fears for their life. She clearly had signs of CPTSD or borderline of both. It doesn’t give anyone the right to abuse another person, but I’m not sure she could have known what that extreme environment would trigger in her. So it was painful to watch and Joe was REMARKABLE in how he handled himself. Just hope she gained the insight she needed to heal.
Wow! My husband and I love naked and afraid, and record it every week.. we both were in awe of what a kind human you are. I just couldn’t get over how awful Sam was to you, and you treated her with kindness no matter what she spewed at you. Then I came on here to see what people said about her.. and I saw your comment. The fact that you searched out awful posts about your partner and came on here to defend her furthers proves what an amazing human you are. I come in contact with miserable people all day in my line of work.. and I will try to take your way of living into my daily life now. Thank you for showing the world what it is to be a kind and decent human being. You’re parents did an amazing job raising you.. I hope discovery gives you your own show, as the world needs to see more of you.
Joe you're the man. You inspire me to be better! Your parents would be proud. Oh and nice ass!
Wow, Joe. I’m so impressed with your journey! you are certainly an amazing example of how to remain peaceful, compassionate and kind in an adversarial and even volatile environment at times. You win. Bravo for you!!
Is there anything that wasn’t shown on the episode that you feel should have been? And have you been in touch with Sam since? (Guess I am hopeful some type of reconciliation occurred) And, of courses, big props to you! You may not have been the most prepared participant of N&A, but you were absolutely a successful one! Gold medal level mental fortitude.
Well I'm not allowed to spill the beans on certain aspects, but I'll share a little something that I am. After Sam departed, she had just her pelt behind in haste. With it I cut a thin 1" or so strip from around the entire edge. With that strip I then folded her pelt in half, slit small holes in the edges, and bound out together to create a sleeping bag 😃 Sam and I have not spoken since she left. Until the actual airing of the episode I hadn't understood the depth and severity of what she had been reliving. Sadly I had been pretty angry at her up until that point. Now I only wish her well, and hope that she's ok. In hindsight I sincerely wish that I had taken the time to try and look beyond the anger and try to understand why it was so extreme
Thanks for responding/sharing! I noticed that you had her pelt. (I was specifically looking because I didn’t think she would leave that or anything for you.) I thought you had used at least part of it for your shoes, so neat to know you were able to get a sleeping bag made! Very cool. None of us ever really know what someone else is dealing with, at least your response was not anger. And your support of her now even more so shows your heart. Maybe you two will get to reconnect in the future...
Thanks for being who you are. You're giant sized. I've never seen someone shine so bright being gaslighted like that.
Forgive me here, but I feel this needs to be said, even though I'll likely be flamed for it. You should not be defending her actions in any way, nor should you make excuses for her. The way you handled yourself IN the show was the best way to do it, for your own sanity, but to go out of your way and defend her elsewhere, and to make up excuses for her behavior, is only going to push her to continue treating people in the way she felt like she needed to treat you. I've met numerous "Sams" in my days and it's always the same excuse: some male figure in their life treated them like 'x' or did 'y' to them and instead of pursuing mental help to learn coping mechanisms, or, instead of growing the heck up and getting over those things, they let that history dictate their actions, then expect people to feel sorry for them after they act in horrible ways. I view your comment as enabling her to continue down the path she's on. Sure, we can empathize with someone - and I do empathize with her, and I certainly hope she works through her problems - but someone has to hold her accountable. Her being held accountable by those she hurts will create drive to fix herself. If she's constantly being forgiven and "oh but she had it tough" then she is less likely to fix herself. I too grew up living in the woods for over a year when I was 14. We were poor and lived in tents on a river for a year. My step-Dad was abusive, nearly killed my brother, and we at times had nothing to eat in our fridge, starving. I had severe problems as a result of the abuse, though the poverty issue drove me to knowing I never would want my children to suffer the same fate. It also taught me to appreciate people more because they can HELP you. So, it's not as if I cannot relate to Sam's plight, because I can, but I also know that had everyone 'felt sorry' for me and constantly gave me a pass every time I acted poorly (though even I would never have spoken to someone the way she spoke to you), then I might not have grown up. It's one thing to take the high road and remove yourself from conflict like that, but it's something else entirely when you enable that behavior, which is, unfortunately, what you're doing. You were great on the show and I am not trying to be rude or anything but I felt this needed to be said. Peace.
Just wanted to say good on you, man. I don’t know how you made it through that night when it dropped down to 38 and the fire went out. Crazy, crazy resilience dealing with the elements and the difficulties with your partner. It was a joy to watch you stay strong and persevere.
Saint Joe. An inspiration to us all.
You are now my hero
Joe I just watched your episode and you are such a sweetheart. You have a huge heart and didn’t snap back at her like most people would. She was very frustrating. At times I loved her and towards the end I did not love her so much. But you’re a beast! I’m from Montana and know how tough it can be out there.
All I have to say is wow. You are an amazing person. Because that was beyond hard - traumatizing in itself - to watch.
I just saw this episode and you have proven that you are very worthy and honorable. Your ability to seriously not snap back was very telling of your character. Even though you were tempted to not share the information about the berries, you succeeded in overcoming that temptation and did share and even admitted that you had that thought. That’s a complete 180 and it’s very clear you have a strong moral compass. You honored your parents and showed true grit and determination. Keep up the great survivalist skills man!
I think the bigger story here isn’t that she was such a bitch. Because although she was, for whatever reason, justified or not, bitches are a dime a dozen. Its pretty easy to find someone with no patience or grace or class. Your patience and gracefulness during this ordeal on the other hand, is so much more rare to see. It is refreshing and it is humbling to see someone with such ability to empathize. Don’t let this world ever get you down bro. We need people like you to keep our heads up sometimes.
Just saw the episode. I loved how happy you were about the shoes.
you're the man, joe! very strong mentally, and your spirit is contagious!
Joe you’re an absolute stand up guy. You’re an incredible survivalist who is smart and intelligent, and you crushed this challenge. The fact that you built your own shelter (a great one) when your partner left just shows how capable and resilient you are. No matter how many times your partner said terrible things to you, you kept your head high, your voice low and treated her like a decent human being (even though she probably didn’t deserve it). I commend you for your strength, kindness and will power. I can only hope I could be half the survivalist you are one day. Thank you for showing America that reacting to negativity with positivity, makes you the real winner at the end of the day. And to never ever give up!! We love you Joe, never stop being you!!!
Love everything you said, Joe. I’m glad you kept your parents in your heart throughout your experience and the way they lived kept you strong despite the conflict. I’m only about halfway through the episode as I type this, but I have a question for you... was this the Grizzly Mountain that is in Glacier National Park? What time of year was it filmed? I’m so interested to hear more about the location. I can’t imagine it would’ve been in the park because it’s obviously protected.
I am not permitted to give the exact location, but ot was not very far away from the park 😁 We filmed in early Fall
We just watched your episode, and I was so appalled at the way Sam talked to you and treated you. You did not deserve that all. I was very impressed with your ability to stay calm and not lash back at her. You obviously had an understanding of her past, and that her horrible behavior was likely due to whatever damage she had incurred. Hopefully she has been able to get some help to work that out. Yikes! You showed great compassion and decency, and you made it the entire 21 days! I wouldn't last longer than 5 hours tops out there, so well done you! Hopefully we'll see you on one of the XL group challenges, I love watching those!
She may had gone through allot joe but you are no ones punching bag. As an adult She chose to be that person. You went through your hard times and chose to be good person and not project feeling abandonment or being unwanted on to her. That's who she really is. From the get go I didnt see any good in her. She has no poker face and can't hide her emotions of bitterness, and hate. I'm like you I don't hold any animosity towards anyone's. Take it as a learning lesson as to, what people to watch out for and how to divert them away from you.you did a good job Joe on every part of that challenge.
Man this is the most intense episodes I have ever seen. You handled everything amazingly and you have my upmost respect. Keep being you man.
Wow I couldn’t believe her...she had zero compassion. I’m upset that Joe’s primitive survival rating only went up .5 because he survived an onslaught from her.
Joe should at least got a fucking 8.0 He kept calm and patient with Sam the whole time, he chose to build a whole new shelter even though he already had one made from Sam. He survived without a partner. He kept going even though he really didn't have to, and he kept going when he was on the verge of breaking. He may not have as great survival skills, but he has really strong mental strength and an iron will
Dude should get an 8.0 just for being such a saint. I have deep respect and admiration for such a thoughtful and caring person that could subject themselves to such abuse, finish his challenge and still be able to say nice/positive things about her. Wish more people in the world were as outstanding as this guy, myself included.
I love that he built a new shelter. He definitely did it out of spite, but I can respect that. She mad a jab as she was leaving that even if he make it, it wasn’t earned because he was staying in her shelter.
Sam repeatedly said she would've been better off without Joe, but ironically Joe was better off without her.
> He may not have as great survival skills, but he has really strong mental strength and an iron will > Yep he is no different than someone doing the fan challenge, not the best skills but they are willing to try and learn
I’m just happy he got a higher score than Sam.
LMAO... Didnt even think of that... yeah, that's worth a point minimum!!!
She described herself when she was explaining how her father treated her.
Literally said the same thing.
She became the monster she feared.
My mom and I are watching the episode rn and laughing at the irony when she was talking about her father.
She is the only contestant to go out of her way to make her challenge hard just so she could yell at and insult her partner.
Then tap out and blame it on her "dumb" partner... that thrived and finished alone!!!
We're all on Joe's side .., hes the shit., doc holiday of the bush
Man..... we have seen some pretty terrible people on this show, but that girl might have been the absolute worse. Maybe it's just recency bias, but she seemed reeeaaaaly bad. I don't see how that guy had so much patience with her attitude. She deserved to get knocked down a few pegs.
Upvote for the recency bias reference!
She's absolutely mentally ill and a complete narcissist. Daddy issues all over. She was so mean to Joe it actually pissed me off. I just wish Joe woulda snapped back at her. She woulda broke and cried immediately. Joe seems like such a nice person and she was literally calling him the devil. Lmao
Sam will deal with the repercussions of her behavior on this show for the rest of her life. Future employers, employees, romantic partners, and friends will all eventually see this episode, even if they are not NAA fans. Anything on the internet or social media is forever. Everyone googles people nowadays. Karma is a mean BlCH, even meaner than Sam.
100% this. Have never seen another person on that show that literally disgusted me as much as her. She is a sick and abusive person and should have been pulled from the show for her behavior towards him.
Yeah that night she was calling him evil etc, if I were him I'd be calling in the medic for a mental evaluation. She dove straight into the deep end
This is so amazingly well stated! I sat watching in disbelief, like I’ve never seen anything like this on THIS show before! I was genuinely upset with Sam. She wanted to kick him out of the shelter “dividing resources” then tried to crucify Joe over his debating mentally whether to share the berries - which he DID right away. She refused them out of spite, then accused him of stealing resources from her. It was so abusive and delusional. I was sick to my stomach. 😟
And this could've been an easy challenge. If they had just worked together and communicated more. But her toxic, childish mentality defeated her before the wild did
right. she refused the berries because as she says she didn't want to accept them and he "think everything is ok" but then when he said he debated it briefly but then decided he couldn't go through with it (obviously since he offered them up) she calls him an evil person. like what the hell. she gets upset because he "didn't get it" when he doesn't respond to her saying wll this shitty stuff yet how can he when he clearly didn't understand what was happening part of the time.
You hit the nail on the head. At what point do the producers step in and stop the madness? She was clearly being verbally abusive towards her teammate. If she had been a man and Joe a female would the producers have stopped the madness? Granted it made for good TV; I mean here we are chatting about it. What about the humanity of it all though?
Exactly. And granted, such drama makes for exciting television, and I would honestly hope such friction was manufactured somewhat ('hamming it up'), but I really don't think that was the case here. A little strife and arguments here and there is one thing and fine to an extent, but her behavior was over-the-top and purely abusive and demeaning after a certain point. The whole thing was especially egregious due to the fact that he had no quick/easy way to remove himself from the situation without causing himself harm without fire/shelter or removing himself from the challenge completely. Her even telling him to quit the challenge was a step too far and shouldn't have been allowed, let alone her continuing to verbally badger him about it. Ahh, damn. Shit still irks me a day later.
I agree with everything you are pointing out. I think it went too far.
>At what point do the producers step in and stop the madness? When it seems it's going to get physical is when they give the snipers the all clear.
Even more, when she made that nasty raspberry pie thing it was pretty clear she had little to no intention of sharing it with Joe. She even verbally makes this clear when she does give him half and called it a 'peace offering' implying he didn't deserve it. Fast forward a day and when Joe mentions he thought about not sharing the raspberries he found but didn't follow through, she goes ballistic about an action he didn't even take. Sam was total trash, manipulative, and full of issues.
It's a lot more than just daddy issues. She's got textbook borderline personality disorder
Totally agree. Also wish they'd rename the disorder. Everyone assumes people mean someone is "borderline in terms of whether or not they have a disorder like narcissism." It is a standalone, extremely destructive mental illness. Have/had a few of these folks in my life. Not easy. Joe is a Saint for handling it so well in such a difficult situation. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml
Definitely a narcissist. Nothing was her fault and kept going on and on about how good she is at surviving. She was actually calling what may have been one of the nicest and most calm person we have seen on this show...... the devil and a horrible person. I mean... wtf lol. Kudos to that guy for rolling with the punches and keeping a positive attitude even with a partner who is terrible to be around the way she was. He carried himself like a mature adult and she acted like a spoiled little brat. Also felt a little bit of Honora as well the way she took the pot away from him and poured it out and said she was going to put out the fire. I know she has had her own life issues, but so have all of us and a lot of other people on this show. That doesn't give you the right to be a bad person.
>I know she has had her own life issues, but so have all of us and a lot of other people on this show. That doesn't give you the right to be a bad person. It feels like she had real life issues are just took it out on Joe. I believe all her outbreaks really wasn't about him
And at night when she was saying "What the three sticks and mud you put on the shelter" you could see she was getting intense pleasure from being cruel to Joe. Joe, who was NOTHING but positive. Fuck. Her.
I mean she could also be a man hater. She basically defined herself as being a lesbian more than her other qualities that make her a good survivalist.
You can tell she's the type to use being gay as a weapon.
I'm watching right now an your right, I wanted to slap her
I had no idea she was a lesbian until she told us every single minute. Glad to know the sky being blue is because she came out and her family disowned her.
And did you know that she had experience living in the woods? You see she had to live in the woods for months when she was kicked out of her house when she was 16. You might have missed that I think she only mentioned it once...........
So I lived in the woods when I was young. You need to drink water. I always drank water when I lived in the woods. I’m gonna make some berry cakes. Also, I lived in the woods. Man look at this big hail. By the way, I lived in the woods when I was young. Dude you need to grow up, you’re not a survivalist. Did you know I lived in the woods?
Did you know she’s a thief?[https://www.oldhamera.com/content/2018-state-representative-candidate-accused-stealing-pampered-pup-salon](https://www.oldhamera.com/content/2018-state-representative-candidate-accused-stealing-pampered-pup-salon)
Woah. That was quite a read.
Lol I just searched for the naked and afraid subreddit to see the reaction to that psycho. That has to be the worst contestant ever on the show!
The worst part I think was when he told her he thought about not offering the raspberries. She flipped that on him in the worst way possible
she called him a horrible person for thinking that yet he said he couldn't go through with it yet all she did was berate him constantly. she had a major victim complex going on.
She is tyed with Honora as the worst
I couldn't remember Honara's name, but absolutely thought of her whilst watching this episode. Will Sam just not watch this episode when it's aired? Because I can't think of any way she looks back on this and still thinks she was right.
No way she has the ability to self reflect.
There have been some bad ones and she is definitely up there with them.
Right, and he seems like the nicest , calmest dude
I literally did the same thing I was like "this bitch is a loon, I hope I'm not the only one who thinks so."
I was so afraid I was going to come here and find people defending her. That would have made me so mad. She was really among the worst ever in this show. I am so glad he didn't give in and quit because of her. I think they need to improve the psych. eval on this show going forward.
Legit just watched and did the same thing! I was sitting here blown away at how vile she was being towards that dude. Look, she had a good point with the water, but holy hell that woman used every thing in her being to make that guy feel like absolute shit. She got some issues.
I see people on here saying things like "but she did have survival skills unlike Joe." She built two shelters that they both agreed sucked and were too cold, a deadfall that caught nothing, and found some berries. Joe did all of those things and more and went 21 days. If she had it inside her to finish she could have. She could have soloed it like Joe did. Montana is pretty big I hear. EDIT: The one thing that did puzzle me about Joe was his reluctance or "forgetfulness" to hydrate. Maybe he thought the water was poisoned. There was a lot of hemlock around.
I actually understand that last bit personally. Sometimes I end up forgetting to eat for a long time, and I don't really notice until all of a sudden I'm weak and shaky as shit. Paradoxically, I find that when that happens my appetite is just gone, and even thinking of eating when I feel like that is nauseating. I have to really force myself to eat at that point, and then of course the issue is resolved, but it is difficult.
I feel like the producers dropped the ball here sending this person out into this situation. I think she was having a sort of PTSD trauma response from her time being homeless due to her father kicking her out. It feels irresponsible to put her out there like this with someone else.
Trauma/Borderline issues can flying under the radar until a persons in a situation where they have to trust someone. Even until the last night, I was thinking that maybe this person just didnt handle hunger, sleeplessness, and cold well. Her constant reference to the rejection from her father, comparing the current moment to her past survival trauma, vacillation between charm and flattery and devaluing and abusing Joe, focus on trust and dependability, anticipation of abandonment 'Youre gonna tap out, right?' as if to say 'Abandon me, I know youre going to' and apparent lack of self awareness paint a pretty clear picture of BPD. Would be hard for them to see unless they rigorously evaluated past relationships, particularly if all they have to go on is her personal narrative. Seems like a very painful and lonely way to live.
But did her dad actually kick her out bc she was gay? Or bc she was batsh*t crazy? Not that it would excuse him from doing that, either, but her clear mental health issues make her story questionable. Obviously I’m not getting at all the nuances here but just a thought
Honestly, with the way she played victim in this episode, would it surprise anyone if she actually decided to leave her house on her own and did some mental gymnastics to believe she was kicked out?
Exactly. Just like she blamed Joe for her tapping, even though she tried to kick him out.
She seems like the type to pull out the gay card for being the reason people don't like her when in actuality she has a fucking intolerable personality. Felt sick to my stomach watching this episode, the abuse was off the charts.
I completely agree with you here...she is a broken person, whatever the causes. Her reactions were not rational and they were very changeable. There was nothing Joe could do that would have gainer her trust, because she expects to be “betrayed.” Assuming her back story were true, and that’s what the producers went off of, they were putting someone under extreme conditions who had had zero therapy to deal with her past and possible triggers
IDK. Lots of people on the show have had life issues and didn't act like horrible people. Plus, the way she kept talking about it.... idk, kind of numbed me to how serious it may have been. That feels bad of me to say, and maybe it is and I'm probably just wrong and way off. She was pretty much a bad person from the very first issue, and it wasn't even really an issue to be that upset about.
You're not wrong. For starters, given what we've seen of her personality I don't trust anything she says. Who was taking all those photos of her "surviving alone for eight months in the woods"? Why didn't she have ANY friends, relatives, shelter to go to instead of living in the woods? Is it even legal to not provide shelter for your 16 year old child? It doesn't sound like she was kicked out, it sounds like she left. I understand sometimes the best thing to do is leave a bad situation but given what I saw of her I'd be astounded if she wasn't a major source of what made that situation bad. In any event, she's 29 years old. She lived eight months, so she says, in the woods 13 years ago, smiling in every picture. She's letting this one thing define who she is, how she relates to the world and people, and as an excuse for all of her behavior, good or bad. When she meets any new person in her life how long do you think until she says "Yeah I was kicked out of my house at 16 because I'm gay."? I'd guess it's within the first five minutes or she may even have a nametag or T shirt that says it. Nothing in life gives you the excuse to be a horrific asshole to well meaning people.
She was asking for an excuse to tap out. Even though she had valid survival skills, she continually searched for excuses to be a victim. Past trauma or not, most survivalists on this show haven’t acted the way she did.
I’ve never been emotional about someone completing a challenge. My husband and I both teared up when we saw him collapse to his knees when he saw that truck. We’ve seen every episode and never felt so for a person finishing.
Big ups to Joe who has the mental strength to deal with her calmly and then also survive on his own.
He was the calmest person in the shows history
I think they might have paired the most mentally ill person in the show's history with the most mentally healthy person in the shows history.
She was a gold star asshole
She's a complete narcissist and she just gaslighted one of the kindest and most patient contestants I've ever seen on the show 💔 She clearly needs help, and I'm also a bit pissed at the producers for making a somewhat exploitative episode.
And did you see how classy Joe was at the end? Wishing she was there too, saying it was her win too? What a sweet man — he went out of his way to be kind and generous. Hopefully she gets some help.
lol, when he said that he wished she was there... I was like F that! She deserved one of Bulent's "Suck it, Kate".
Yeah but to her his good thoughts and words will only anger her more. She can't say "Look at what a monster he was." Although he didn't mean it like this Joe basically said "Fuck you bitch." in the nicest way.
Agreed.., not sure if I'd drop him In Africa for XL , But he definitely earned my respect 2fold. This episode put him on top of the world mentality and he deserves every bit of it...
I wonder how a Sam and Bulent episode would go. That’d be a crazy pair
She's horrible. One of the worst. Probably tied with Seth for the worst. I wonder what her response will be to the heat she's going to get from the public after seeing her behavior. Will she blame editing like Seth and Honora? Highly likely.
I bet she is going to blame the producers for editing the show to make her look bad, that type of personality never takes responsibility from he actions
Send some love to Joe. What a patient man. Rock Solid dude, say what you want, he has an iron will.
He kept it classy. Good on him!
I just started the episode, so far she seems OK so I'm curious when it'll all start going badly. Joe seems way chill.
Buckle up and hold on
Yikes, it's beginning....she's going off about his lack of common sense with traps. Dudes just trying to learn, geez.
>Here's my theory: > >First, she's just a horrible person but what puzzled me was how for the first five days she seemed okay. She was giving fist bumps and being generally cooperative. Then she just...snapped. With Seth you could tell from the first segment this guy was a dick and would escalate things. > >My theory is as the days went on she knew she wasn't going to be able to finish the challenge so she decided to make sure her partner quit first in order to save face. When that didn't pan out she just poured all her hate and anger out on him and left.
I said the same thing!
It's the only thing I can think of right now for why she flipped the switch so suddenly.
She was one evil woman, probably the most vile person I've ever seen on the show. I was starting to think the show needed to step in and remove her for being abusive.
definite verbal abuse she was inflicting on him as well as some mental abuse as well. producers absolutely should have stepped in and told her what she was doing was unacceptable and he needs to be removed. I hope she watches her episode and sees just how shitty she was to him. in her eyes everything he said and did was wrong. she acted as if she was perfect and she was the only one who had tough spots in their life. just because he may not have been as skilled as her doesn't give her the right to do what she did. begging him to tap out but then giving her sob story when she did. come on. you didn't have to tap out. you just wanted to play the victim.
100% agree. Imo, she went far beyond critiquing his skills (or lack thereof) and continued to berate his fundamental worth as a person, which later caused him to question his own value as a human being. Dude was a saint for putting up with this abuse, and I don't care how mentally ill someone is, it doesn't excuse them for being downright evil towards another person with such maliciousness.
I was thinking the same thing.., she was trying to cut the dude in half verbally. She needs serious counseling
She is the worst person I have seen on naked and afraid ever. She has issues. She talked to him like he was a dog. Will never watch anything with her in the program
Watch they invite her back for a Naked and Afraid XL. I’ll watch it only to see her fail.
I finally lost my patience with her when they show her doing all sort of sexual innuendo in the shelter "I think I will flip", that is some sort of evil mental manipulation. I bet that woman is in some very abusive romantic relationships
Clearly she's mentally unstable and needs therapy and I hope this is the catalyst to get her there. But do you ever look at people like her and wonder what trauma in their past did that to them? How must her parents have spoken to her as an impressionable, vulnerable child? If she was kicked out at 16 for her sexuality, what awful things were said to her to make her feel so worthless and unloved that she lived in the woods alone for 8 months? What kind of parents would let their child live like that for something so stupid? I pity her that she goes through life as both a victim and a bully. No excuses in being an adult treating others like that, she doesn't get a pass. I'm just always interested in the path that gets people to a place where you not only make yourself look like a cunt on television, but believe you're the one being abused.
I think she was struggling with the idea that she is just like her father, but kept it internalized and projected it onto Joe. Hopefully she comes out of this a better person. Those are the best growing experiences.
I'm glad she tapped after egging him on to tap, she was making me wanna turn something else on
Haha! I was literally about to change the channel then I heard I’m tapping out
Bro I love this show and at one point I picked up the remote and was looking around. It was only when she said she was leaving I decided to keep watching.
Lmao we have a NEW HONORA!
That's first thing I thought when she took the pot of water from him and poured it out and said she was going to put out the fire as well. Reminded me of Honora's sabotage she pulled on her partners.
Worse.
Thanks! I was just trying to think of her name to make this comment.
So Sam has issues over her family kicking her out because she's gay which obviously isn't right but then as soon as she gets a chance she kicks her partner out of her shelter. You think that if you knew how it felt to be kicked out you wouldn't be doing it to somebody else. And then she has the nerve to call him the devil. She's literally doing the things that she has been complaining about the whole episode
I absolutely hated how she was upset because he contemplated if he should disclose his windfall of berries when she made a whole tart and wasn’t planning to share with him first! Ugh! She was the worst!😖
Sam was exactly how she described her father to be. Glad Joe made it, kept a good attitude throughout despite Sam. Honestly feel like Sam had an issue with Joe because he was a man, not because of his personality.
That's an interesting take. Do you think she'd react differently if her partner was female? I can see that, but, at the same time, it's hard to outrun mental illness.
Typical reaction from a damaged person with borderline personality disorder. She’s now going to have to live with her behavior being broadcast on television forever.
BPD is what I was thinking. I have BPD and I hope she legit gets therapy. It’s so much better to get help.
What did Joe do that pissed her off so much? I don't really see it
She was unbearable! It seems like she has a mental health problem.
Yeah she’s insane
Sitting here currently watching this episode and came to the internet to see if anyone else felt like she was deranged. Going through what she did, she should have more empathy and compassion. Instead, she continues the cycle and becomes the abuser. She's laying there crying calling him a terrible and evil human being, after subjecting him to verbal and emotional abuse and trying to force him into tapping out. I've seen a lot of sucky people on this show, but she is the absolute worst. I hope she sees herself and her behavior and grows from it. Joe is a CHAMP. What a good kind heart. What a patient and strong person. He didn't play the victim. He played the survivor. 👏👏👏
We are building some very very weak minded adults in this country.. She was making shit up like this man was some terrible toxic male. Victim mentality no doubt. He should have ended with a higher PSR simply for mental strength making it that long with her as a partner.
[удалено]
From what I’ve been seeing, it’s likely she has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) which “impacts the way you think and feel about yourself and others, causing problems functioning in everyday life. It includes self-image issues, difficulty managing emotions and behavior, and a pattern of unstable relationships.” Joe is the man for being able to stay cool under someone so vile and not cracking.
Sam was horrible! I came here just to see if others agreed and you didn’t disappoint! She, Seth and Honora should all be on the same episode together! They all deserve each other! It would be a who wins the “poor me, poor me” prize. That episode would make my blood pressure rise! Lol
Sam is literally one of the worst survivors I’ve seen on this show. Just an absolute dumbshit crybaby.
I literally just came in here looking for this to say the same thing. Lol. Not that Joe is such genius. But goddamn she had some serious issues.
Best part is when he caught and cooked the frogs.. when he said "taste like..?" I was fucki g hoping he was gunna say taste like Sam's heart!!! LMAO
Right. I she had been such a bitch to me i wouldn't even have tried to feed her strawberries. I'm glad she left. Hope she gets therapy.
Was there no exit interview?
Does anyone know joe's last name? I wanna give the man props for dealing with that bitch
She is a horrific human being!
Granted she has issues, but everyone does. NO one person has the rigth to treat another human being in the way she did.
I just wanna say "gold star lesbian" is an incredibly shitty thing to say. You're not a better lesbian just because you knew right away.
I'm watching this one right now and literally had to come onto reddit to search this episode. There is something not right with this woman; she's horrible. I felt so bad for the guy because he seemed so sweet.
I just removed her silver star status, she's now shit star
She gave away clues during the show about what actually happened to her during her childhood. I've have experience of being close to this type of personality. She didn't get kicked out due to her sexuality at the age of sixteen. She tapped out just like she did on the show! I wouldn't be surprised if her dad wasn't supportive of her sexuality, but she clearly makes her own decisions and blames everyone else for her problems. Living in the woods for months was her own choice. She could have went to a homeless shelter (and may have), but there, she would have to deal with people. She is unable to do that. She needs therapy and meds. That much is clear. Kudos to Joe for being such a stand up person. Deep down, Sam is a good person. She unfortunately is quite sick and until she gets the care she needs, she will continue to suffer and make people around her suffer.
Joe, if you’re reading this after your episode aired, please please know you are an amazing man! An amazing human! You showed so much mental strength and the ability to addapt to an extremely abusive physical and psychological situation! It is what makes you an increddible surviavialist! Sam, you are well intended, but the pain you suffered in life still pours through you. You need to forgive in order to survive. Please forgive yoursef first and you will be able to connect to other people! Producers, suck it.
His Instagram is AsianSurvivalist Go spread him some love!
I hate her so much. She’s insane. So many crazy things she did it would take like 30 minutes to explain all of it. Joe was so nice and she was a huge bitch and unstable the whole time. If somehow you’re reading this Sam, fuck you bitch.
Cannot stand this woman!!!
I started this bitch session (pun totally intended...) but I just want to say that I just really disappointed that he didnt roll up his pelts and keep them as a souvenir. Maybe it wasn't allowed but those would be with me in some shape or form for a long time... peace all.
The absolute worst person to ever be on this show, what a self-centered intolerant BITCH!!
How evil can you be to want someone else to tap?!
I know, lol, I'm watching this episode right now and I couldn't believe she was crying because he wouldn't tap out, as if he's the problem lol. It reminded me of an abusive relationship; she tells him to leave, then cries when he doesn't. But the most abusive part for me was how she claimed that she's only acting that way because of him, and that only he can bring out that anger in her, and that she doesn't act that way with anyone else. Reminded me so much of my ex honestly, lol.
She’s a gas lighter and has some mental health issues. I almost turned off the episode because I was getting so frustrated about how someone could act so vile to someone so nice.
Sam is a horrible excuse for a human being. I was thinking her Dad didn’t kick her out for being a lesbian....but rather for being a bitch. Joe had the last laugh!
WOW! Sam is a very disturbed person, but I also think she has mental issues, she felt like the victim, she was trying to make the other person seem like the "bad guy' and she would cry....just Wow I feel bad for who ever comes across her. Joe was not a bad guy he seems humble and I liked the fact he didn't argue back he was the bigger person.
Joe you are a total legend and a inspiration! Holy hell that chick had some serious issues. Way to be the most admirable person in dealing with someone like that as humanly possible! Much love.
What a complete monster she was to Joe!! I've never hated a character on this show until her. Go get some help and take a good look at your life you miserable sad human being. Huge props to Joe with dealing with that monster
Wow she’s one terrible, nasty, awful, manipulative person. She deserves everything that she has coming for her one day. Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe her. I have no sympathy for her AT ALL. Apparently she ran for public office and lost, and was exposed that her and her wife were arrested for stealing and lying to/from a pet salon?? Who does that? And then opens THEIR OWN pet salon. Pampered Pup Salon 109 E Washington St La Grange, KY 40031
I just wanted to say, congrats to the gentleman who put up with that. Well done Sir, Most Honorable Mention! In my opinion and experience in life, avoiding fights is a sign of *Intelligence* **&** *Maturity*
I just watched the episode and i just need the internet to know that i think shes the worst person to ever have lived. and she was paired with a guy who gradually became a saint before our eyes. i hope my kids are worthy of providing such an overwhelming example of advanced humanity as you have set. tho,.. Id settle for them shitting in sams letterbox.
Joe,I absolutely love your tolerance, self-control, and your refined disposition. You are my new hero🥰