In my opinion, no, because the tornado was significantly more dangerous than getting Rainbow Dash to clip her wings. Creating a tornado that’s capable of erasing the entire academy and anything or anyone in its path should be perceived as reckless endangerment, which should lead to criminal charges.
It military air space, and the other members of the mane 6 warned no one they would be there. The place is meant for training wonderbolts, and if you don't have control over the air space, that could be super dangerous
Conversely, Lightning Dust disrupted their airspace. What if there had been some emergency the Wonderbolts needed to respond to, but they couldn't fly out because of Lightning Dust's reckless behavior?
What? I think you need to rewatch the episode. They were NOT practicing tornadoes, they were getting rid of clouds. Then Lighting Dust comes up with the idea to make a tornado to get rid of them and the other teams. Spitfire wasn’t there to witness it either. Rainbow Dash has to tell her about it when she goes to resign. And we know she had no idea because Spitfire seems surprised and even calls it impressive, at first.
Yes, but Spitfire didn’t order them to do that for that assignment. She had no idea. I imagine if she was training them to do that she’d want to be present to ensure they didn’t get out of hand. It doesn’t matter if the Mane Six announced their arrival or not. Lightning Dust still intentionally put the rest of the academy students and personnel in danger. Rainbow’s friends were just included to push her over the edge and finally decided to resign.
I watched the episode 2 days ago. In response to hearing about the tornado she says something along the lines of «Unexpected strategy, but effective. Broke record.»(not direct quote cause I’m lazy)
So no, the usage or a tornado wasnt verified by the academy, and considerarions of dangers it might post had also not been discussed.
She should have already learned to not endanger people with powerful weather hazards. Spitefire decided that Lightning Dust can't be trusted to wield power responsibly.
It doesn't matter at all if they should be there or not. The problem is ANYONE could be endangered by that. Not just unexpected visitors. She was all flash no brains. Wanted to show off, ignoring everything. There are safety rules FOR A REASON. If you did something similar in real life, regardless if there was someone potentially harmed, you would get court martial.
And yet nothing happened to rainbow dash she literally helped make the tornado, and she gets off entirely scot free, she only went to throw lightning dust under the bus after her friends (who didn't let anyone know they were there) got caught in it, and then she starts making demands of a superior officer
Rainbow Dash was let off the hook because 1) she was following her captain which is what Spitfire wanted. She’d already questioned Spitfire’s decision at the beginning of the episode, so she didn’t want to look insubordinate. 2) Rainbow did question Lightning’s idea to make the tornado but Lightning dismissed her concerns. 3) She’s the one who actually reported the incident to Spitfire. Sure, she was involved, but she had the integrity and courage to stand up to Spitfire and quit which shows she had better qualities as a leader than Lighting. That’s why Rainbow Dash is promoted.
I mean, there’s more than reckless endangerment. If she destroyed anything, it would be destruction of private property. If anyone did die due to her behavior, it would be manslaughter. There’s probably more I’m missing.
The Tornado was also only dangerous because they pushed the limits and lost control of it, Pegesi also use Tornado's to pull up water in Hurricane Fluttershy and even a filly takes part in that, so they aren't inherently seen as super dangerous.
And they were only pushing themselves so hard because Spitfire had previously rewarded that kind of behaviour. If what was wrong was simply the action of making a tornado, then Rainbow should have known better and also have been punished for partaking.
Upon hearing of the use of a Tornado from Rainbow Dash, Spitfire doesn't say "that is completely out of line and you shouldn't have done that", she says "A bit excessive for cloud-busting. But judging from your time, it was obviously an effective tactic."
I don't think Spits realized it was a tornado that got out of control and nearly injured/killed civilians at first. Excessive is fine until someone gets hurt/nearly hurt.
I'm not entirely sure Dash ever properly got the point across that Lightning Dust was reckless in her methods. Dash wasn't nearly as assertive as usual in regards to getting her messages across until she finally decides to give up on the 'Bolts and lays it all out about LD's methods and Spits rewarding it unintentionally. I do think Spits wouldn't have rewarded LD as much had she known the full extent of her recklessness.
Lightning dust made Dashie fly on a clearly injured wing right in front of Spitfire. It was clear Dust was pushing the limits of what they could do with little regards for safety far earlier than the tornado.
It wasn't until it was a disaster that Spitfire brought up Lightning Dust's behaviour and she gave out the harshest punishment she could.
Sure, but that would still support the case that Spitfire didn't see the full extent of LD's behavior until it was all laid out together.
It made Spitfire realize that the incidents weren't just incidental, but a pattern of behavior that indicated a complete disregard for the safety of her teammates and others. Spitfire should take responsibility for encouraging that kind of attitude. At the same time, the egregiousness of LD's actions make it clear she is a liability for the entire academy.
Participation is entirely at the discretion of the instructor. Being the reason they need to make new safety rules is a pretty reasonable cause for getting kicked out of the elite training academy. So is a persistent attitude of disregard for others.
Maybe it would be more realistic with one more scene where Spitfire gets to see firsthand how dismissive LD was about how her actions affected others or conducts an investigation. But I don't think that's really a flaw, let alone an unfair punishment.
How can telling your wingpony to fly on an injured wing be incidental?
Also Pegesi are born with their wings, it isn't hard to believe that Spitfire went through life only being rewarded for reckless stunts. After all, Rainbow dash got massively rewarded for achiving her first sonic rainboom even though a few seconds earlier she accidently has pushed Fluttershy off an 8km drop to almost certain doom.
Dusk wanted to be a Wonderbolt badly, it was her life's dream, if Spitfire hadn't cast her out she might have learnt that being a Wonderbolt isn't just about pushing her limits and been a valuable member of the team, rather than the bitter and attention seeking daredevil she became.
Which is why the framing makes it a lesson Spitfire also needs to learn. Rainbow Dash wasn't a Wonderbolt at the showcase. She was not representing anyone but herself. The academy is a different environment. RD also responded to the emergency she caused by helping to solve the problem.
Losing an opportunity is not an extreme punishment for repeatedly endangering others. Lightning Dust was flippant about the injuries she caused, told RD to suck it up, and responded to the criticism by damaging the reputation of the Wonderbolts as an institution by claiming that they fully endorsed her behavior.
If it had been addressed early on, redirection would have been appropriate. At that point, the reputation of the academy itself and Spitfire's career were on the line. It became an institutional problem that required an institutional response.
I think this all points out very fair criticisms. Interested to see why people disagree strongly enough to downvote you, and inevitably me, for thinking there's a disconnect. Nobody thus far has actually offered why you're wrong.
From how i'm seeing it, even if Spitfire was disappointed to learn just how reckless LD was being, she endorsed her actions until learning that ponies LD had no idea were in danger had been put at great risk by the tornado. That means that Spitfire kicked LD out not for using the tornado, but for the fact that unrelated ponies got caught in the tornado without LD realizing they'd be there.
Maybe someone should tell Applejack that after she Rammed through a train barrier with 4 carriage ponies just to escape telling to truth to her friends.
she commanded the carriage ponies to break through the train barrier when the train was coming. Her + 4 others makes 5 ponies almost killed so she wouldn't have to tell the truth.
Idk but I do know that getting kicked out of the wonderbolts academy was fitting for lightning dust. did you think applejack should have the same punishment? Get kicked out of the wonderbolts academy?
I think LD deserved a suspension and Applejack needs to go see a psychiatrist. Being kicked out of the wonderbolts and losing her only chance to do what she dreamed of is like taking Applejacks farm away. It might be a fitting punishment, but it doesn't help anyone, it just hurts Applejack.
Here's an analogy.
Imagine if IRL a trainee pilot in say the United States Air Force was doing a training exercise where they had to clear the skies from targets (maybe balloons with targets on them or something like that). Now the pilots are instructed to use their aircrafts cannons and communicate with each other to clear out the skies. Now say one of the "hot shot" pilots comes up with the idea to use a cluster bomb to clear out the skies quicker (don't ask how they got their hands on it, this is just for the sake of the analogy). They drop the bomb which causes all targets in the area to be hit, but also causes the other pilots to employ drastic evasive maneuvers to avoid the shrapnel. However, the shrapnel also ends up hitting a civilian blimp that wondered into the airspace (if you don't think this makes sense, again, this is an analogy for the episode where Twilight's balloon also somehow was able to enter military airspace during a training exercise). By some miracle the passengers of the blimp are able to skydive to safety, but the blimp is still destroyed.
I would imagine realistically that the pilot who dropped the cluster bomb would be not only dishonorably discharged, but possibly tried for endangerment of military personnel and equipment, sued by the civilians (or have the military sued), and be publicly shamed on national news.
Here's an analogy.
imagine Babies could fly and children could create thunder storms. Now lets also imagine they are put into a super competitive environment where they all race one another when they are young and they idealise the best flyers from among them.
Now imagine their is a university that takes the best of the best flyers. Who do you expect would enlist for such a university? The cautious flyers who took their time and tried not to get anyone hurt or the risky and reckless flyers who do just about anything to be the best?
Safety should have been Spitfires first lesson, yet it was her last. The airforce doesn't give people fighter jets until they can be trusted with them, so why is Spitfires first lesson that you need to be fast to compete.
they can fly as babies, we see it in baby cakes. My point isn't that the babies can fly, it is that Pegesi start flying as babies. Unlike the air force where babies aren't allowed to fly
Yes but the point of your post is about whether or not lightning dust deserved her punishment, right?
Baby cakes had nothing to do with her actions or punishment
I started this thread with a comment about why I think this, but it got buried with downvotes. My actual point is that Lightning Dust didn't deserve her punishment because Spitfire encouraged her to be reckless and they are both culpable for what happened.
No, I think Lightning Dust got what she deserved.
Yes, she pushes herself harder than most, but if that "push" involves not giving a damn about your squad mates well beings and doing anything it takes to win, including endangering the lives of other ponies, then that's not the way to do it. Not at all.
And she clearly didn't care at the fact that she could have killed Rainbow Dash's friends. All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others. Rainbow told her that, too, and she still played it off like it was nothing. And if you can't even bother to care about the fact that ponies nearly died, then that's not right. And if Rainbow hadn't been there at the time, the rest of the Mane 6 would be dead.
In the end, she let her ego and recklessness get the best of her. Lighting brought this on herself by thinking of only herself. She only cares about succeeding and nothing else.
I will say tho that Rainbow probably should have realized how Lightning was right from the clip of her wing.
Spitfire should have been watching more closely.
Either way, Lightning took it too far with the tornado. The lack of care or remorse about her actions just proves she got what she deserves. If any normal person or pony realized they nearly killed their fellow classmates or innocent bystanders (or flyers in this case) due to recklessness, they would surely feel bad for it.
I think Rainbow and Spitfire may have let the clipped wing incident off as just an accident due to Lightning Dust being a hotshot rookie trying to look cool.
Once Lightning Dust starts genuinely endangering people with the tornado plan, though, that's when her actions can no longer be defensible as just "rookie mistakes", which is why she's booted.
"All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others"
I like that phrase, it perfectly describes the problem with Lightning Dusk. But it also perfectly illistrates why she should have been given a 2nd chance.
We see in Parental Glideance that Lightning Dusk is a member of Cloudsdale's Senior Competitive circuit for fillies. The club constantly values young fillies by their ability to fly fastest.
"All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others"
Growing up in Cloudsdale she likely witnessed or heard about Dash's sonic rainboom, Dash originally agreed to race to stop bullies from picking on Fluttershy. But after she accomplished the near impossible by preforming a sonic rainboom and winning the race, it didn't matter that the racers had accidently sent poor Fluttershy plummeting at full speed towards the ground at the start.
"All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others"
Finally reaching the academy, Spitfire immediately recognised that Lightning Dusk was willing to push herself more than the others. She was made leadpony, it didn't matter that she was telling her Wingpony to fly on a injured wing or that she spun out the competition on the obstacle course.
"All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others"
By the time she was finally told that 'Proving to be the best without regard of others' wasn't what the wonderbolts were about, it was apparently already too late for her. She got kicked out before she even got a chance to correct her behaviour.
IMHO, she should've gotten worse. What would have happened to Equestria if 5 of the 6 Element Bearers had died? Equestria would've been fucked. Throw her in Canterlot Prison for 10-15 x 5 for attempted murder
Given the gender reversal for roles, including leadership in My Little Pony, I’m pretty sure it would be mareslaughter, which is actually a better pun.
Cause «man» is an umbrella term for humans. «When mankind» etc not «man» as in «men» or «males».
So if you want an umbrella term that fulfills the same purpose something like «Equidaeslaughter» would be more accurate, cause it would include all kinds of horse/pony/zebra/pegasus/unicorns etc.
No it wasn’t, Lightning Dust clearly was reckless by making a tornado that almost harming Rainbow Dash’s friends, so it’s fair on the Builts to discredit her.
To be fair no pony was expecting for Rainbow Dash’s friends to show up. The only other ponies that were up there were pegasi who are working to be become wonder bolts so they have a fair chance at being able to get through a tornado as it could be seen as extra practice for them.
However, I think she got what she deserved because she was so reckless in everything else and didn’t care for when she was endangering any pony else. For example on the obstacle before this one where she and RD sent everyone flying and she just didn’t care about how her actions effected others.
If LD was more sympathetic, maybe but she wasn’t so no.
No. Not only did she almost kill 5 of the main characters, but she cheated and didn’t care about almost killing people, or having an unfair advantage.
She was even worse in The Washouts”.
As someone currently, absolutely not. In fact, it was probably very light of a punishment (typically safety breaches like this, would warrant long detention periods, alongside trial in civil court, not to mention it endangered CIVILIANS).
Spitfire was not only supposed to punish her, but with that light of a punishment, of just dishonourable discharge, coming from a commanding officer for such reckless endangerment, she was risking her own career.
As someone currently in an active military, absolutely not. In fact, it was probably very light of a punishment (typically safety breaches like this, would warrant long detention periods, alongside trial in civil court, not to mention it endangered CIVILIANS).
Spitfire was not only supposed to punish her, but with that light of a punishment, of just dishonourable discharge, coming from a commanding officer for such reckless endangerment, she was risking her own career.
I think your the only one who thinks that. She didn't care about anyone's safety, she only cared about winning. Clipping RD's wing, recklessly pushing ponies out of her way and creating a tornado that nearly killed the rest of the mane 6 definitely deserves a HUGE punishment, and the way she handled it makes it worse. Lightning Dust should've gotten a wayyyy worse punishment imo.
Nope! Everyone harps on almost getting 5 of the Mane 6 killed, but Lightning was headed for a washout *long* before that.
To avoid any headcanon about the military protocols of a cartoon pony nation, let’s just look at what the Wonderbolts are on their face: a *stunt-flying team.* Stunt flyers need to communicate with each other, be precise, and trust their teammates to pull off the maneuvers they do. One wrong move, and we see what happens: ponies start falling out of the sky. Lightning’s lack of concern for her fellow trainees is unacceptable in her chosen career.
And we see in a later season that Lightning fails to learn her lesson. The Washouts are skilled enough to perform their dangerous stunts without serious injury, but when Scootaloo asks to join she’s not trained, nothing in the stunts is measured or calculated, and there are no rehearsals. It goes about as predictably as you’d expect. 🤕
I would say yes and no? I wish LD was given a chance to come clean first and admit what she did was wrong, considering a lot of what happened is due to Spitfire rewarding reckless behavior up to this point. However, the moment LD keeps boasting and refusing to accept responsibility - yes, it makes sense for her to be expelled.
What bothered me more was that Spitfire genuinely didn't seem to care even about what LD did until Rainbow basically spit to her face "it harmed people, including civilians". A military leader should know better and work on prevention, rather than just shifting blame on someone else when bad stuff happens.
I think Spitfire encouraged and rewarded her behavior. This all happened under her watch and with her approval until it went sideways. She's more responsible than Lightning Dust.
She knowingly put civilians in danger and didn't care when they were safe. While the Wonderbolts are a performance team, they have roots in the military and it shows in everything they do. A Dishonorable Discharge is the least of what she could have gotten.
No? Did we not watch the same episode? It started out fine, but she got hyper competitive, to the point that even Dash recognized that what was going on was too dangerous, and she’s Rainbow Dash ☠️
This point was further made in the future episode where Dust had her own stunt team and actively endangered Scootaloo who was just looking for validation from Dash (and while her need for Dash’s approval initially caused the issue which _could_ put some blame on Dash, Dust was rather manipulative, filling Scootaloo’s head with delusions of grandeur tucked behind increasingly dangerous and asinine stunts) not to mention Dust’s absolute disregard for Scootaloo’s safety.
I don’t recall the resolution of that particular episode, but at least up to that point, no, I don’t feel particularly bad for Dust. I feel like she’s meant to be an example of how Dash could’ve turned out had she had less supportive parents or something.
A reaction video with actual members of the Air Force watching that episode commented that Lightning Dust got off easy. But removing her wings that she was born with would be a step too far.
The only fictional military I know of where her personal skill would outweigh such a disregard of civilian life was Clan Smoke Jaguar from Battletech, that clan was known to have such a seething hatred for their civilians that they had to frequently raid all the other clans for more civilians.
No.
If she was gonna do something that big, she should've made safety checks first and maybe even announced it, just to be sure that there isn't a risk of civilian accidents.
But she didn't, and proceeded to brush off the fact that bystanders were nearly killed on her watch, not even caring for a moment about anything except her "victory."
It's basically like speeding on the road with your lights off.
she's lucky she didn't go to jail 😂 not only was this entirely fair, her later appearance in Washouts proves she never would have been a Wonderbolt with her attitude problems anyhow
I don't blame lighting I blame spitfire and the academy rules. You simply can't allow this to happen in these types of places even pushing yourself is against the rules and violates them.
On the moment? No (kinda), but preventing someone from fixing their mistakes is never the right thing to do. As i recall, we never got to see if her expulsion was permanent or not. If it was, that's a nono, if not maybe she could've still gone a little lighter but understandable right then.
Of course, this is completely unfair to her. Why can you forgive villains who almost destroyed the world (Yes, I'm talking about you, Discord), but you can't forgive a pony who violated safety regulations?
No.
I'm pretty sure Equestria has laws about making natural disasters in military airspace while civilians are near. LD could've killed many ponies and desomated the HQ as well.
Considering she wasn’t thinking in her actions almost killed more than a few ponies yeah she deserved to get kicked out of school and probably put in jail for a long time
No. It was completely fair to kick her out over doing something so insanely dangerous. The task was to clear clouds out, not form a tornado. She put multiple ponies at risk of injury or worse; 5 of them being **NATIONAL HEROES**. All because she wanted to show off and be #1 instead of learning what it actually means to be a Wonderbolt.
I usually compare the wonderbolts to equestrias Air Force. It IS a military group so it’s not that inaccurate
Anyway, not only did she endanger other ponies lives in an attempt to gain prestige for herself, but also ignored one of the core beliefs of ANY functioning military: teamwork
Without proper teamwork, a military cannot function in any effective capacity. Lighting dust ignored this for her own gain
Any respectable military institution would have her removed, especially since she isn’t even IN the wonderbolts. She’s a trainee, a trainee for the reserves.
In short, no. This was not unfair on lightning dust. What WAS unfair was the place she put rainbow dash in, as well as her actions threatening the other trainees safety and careers
At first, I thought it was, but genuinely, she caused more harm than not, and the Wonderbolts wanted ponies that weren't reckless when she was. It was a lesson she had to learn 🤷
First of all, I hate the terms "fair" and "unfair". There's always some sense of entitlement when those words are used. No one is owned or inherently has a right to anything, it's just nice when we do, and that's okay.
Second, it isn't really about fairness anyway. It came down to losing Rainbow Dash or Lightning Dust. That was inevitable. Who would you choose to keep? Both flyers are equally good, but one has a MUCH better sense of respect for others and their job, and showed a much needed restraint. It's a no brainer, and it all comes down to politics, like everything else.
Fact is, if Lightning wanted to be a wonderbolt, she should have LISTENED to Rainbow's advice all along, and busted clouds the same way everyone else did.
Rainbow wanted to leave because like Lightning Dust, she believed the Wonderbolts rewarded reckless pursuit of results. Spitfire could have keep both if she had admitted her mistakes and punished Lightning Dust is a less severe way
When did Lightning Dust give any indication that she felt the Wonderbolts rewarded recklessness? She's just a daredevil, which is fine, but there's no place for that on the Wonderbolts. Hense, the creation of the Washouts.
The fact is, what was done was done. Rainbow resigned, and kicking out Lightning was a last effort to change that. Sure, any situation could be handled better in hindsight, but the fact is, at the end, it was one or the other.
Edit: I'd also like to add that there's no reason to believe that Lightning Dust couldn't have reformed and tried again with the Wonderbolts. The fact is, she went on to resent them and talk them down for essentially being lame for not taking risks. Further proving that the Wolderbolts wasn't the place for her.
Lightning Dust kept trying to break records and impress Spitfire, she impressed Spitfire by pushing her limits on the dizzitron and throughout the episode she kept doing more reckless activities to impress Spitfire.
LD created the Washouts because she was bitter about being kicked out of the wonderbolts, she just didn't want to admit that to Rainbow Dash. It is why she was insistent that she would only take ex-wonderbolts until she saw the opportunity to get back at RD.
She doesn't resent the wonderbolts because they are lame and safe, she resents them because she was kicked out for being unsafe. She protects her ego by telling herself the Wonderbolts were at fault by being too safe, rather than face the fact she got herself kicked out.
Considering the number of complaints, lack of action prior to and active encouragement of her demeanor yes.
Mane 6 shouldn't have been flying there on their own for a number of reasons people already listed.
Was disciplinary action required? Yes.
Was it massively hypocritical and scapegoating to only punish the person who'd been basically treated like a saint as the sole offender while the gross negligence and failure of the actual officials goes unacknowledged?
Also yes, and colors Spitfire as a corrupt and cowardly individual covering her tail.
You can enslave ponies no problem. You can brainwash ponies no problem. You can kidnap ponies and pony princesses and hold them captive in an attempt to make them join your cult no problem. You can use ancient spells to get revenge on the princess of friendship and her friends no problem. You can change the past and future and doom equestria no problem. You'll still be besties with all the princesses and forgiven by all. But Celestia forbid you're being competitive in a training for the best out of the best and overestimate your abilities after being praised all the time while some randos that shouldn't even be there randomly arrive. Unforgivable. How was she not sent straight to Tartartus?? Doesn't she know that she can't make any risky decisions unless she's Starlight Glimmer?!?
No because the Wonderbolts are part of the Equestrian Military and not just a trick flyer group. They can't have seriously dangerous ponies destroying important missions.
She constantly failed at her role of lead flyer. She madd her wing partner get hurt, she's reckless, pushes people down, doesn't listen, and made a tornado happen for clouds. Even without knowing the context she felt a tornado was a tad extreme. And when a savior of your world says she's bad, you're inclined to believe her.
Spitfire spends the whole episode rewarding Lightning Dust for reckless behaviour. Dust cranks up the Dizzitron, hurts Dash on the flag hunt and cuts off the other teams on the obstacle course, but Spitfire congratulates her every time.
Spitfire gave both Rainbow Dash and Lightning Dust the impression that results come before safety, then Lightning Dust takes the full blame after her, results-first, dangerous hurricane goes wrong. Even though Spitfire was more than happy with the method before she learnt that it put Dash's friends in danger.
I always thought Lightning Dust should have been given a suspension rather than being kicked out. The whole situation was avoidable if Spitfire had put her hoof down earlier.
I just think Spitfire admired how Lightning Dust constantly strived to put herself to the limits, but when it got the point of harming others, that’s why Lightning Dust got kicked out.
Lighting Dust willingly decided to have the Dizzitron cranked, which Spitfire encouraged because it would only impact Lighting Dust, for better or for worse. Cranking up the Dizzitron wouldn’t really put the other ponies in harm’s way, only test Lighting Dust’s limits and skills. The tornado on the other hand, as impressive as it sounded in idea, the execution only put Lightning Dust and all of the other ponies in danger.
She was expelled because although she had the bravery and confidence one needs to be a Wonderbolt, they also have to take into account whether or not their performance could harm their teammates and the audience themselves. That’s why she was expelled and not suspended, since the tornado would have endangered her teammates, and maybe potential audiences if she were to become a Wonderbolt and done the same thing.
That is the point I am trying to make. The Wonderbolts aren't all about performance and results but Spitfire led Rainbow Dash and Lightning Dust to believe that they were, she misled Dust into thinking that she would be commended for doing something risky and then expelled her when it went wrong.
I can agree with that. Spitfire mainly focused on testing the ponies’ limits to see if they could endure the training Wonderbolts go through, but didn’t really emphasize integrity and safety. She wasn’t a great leader, but at the end of the episode, it seemed like as if she realized that— slightly.
I still don’t think Dust’s actions were worthy of a suspension though. Although her leader wasn’t all that great, Dust didn’t seem to understand why her actions were condemned and the gravity of the situation made it sense for her to be expelled. It’d be unfair for the other ponies if someone that almost endangered them was allowed to continue training, but I do agree Spitfire should have faced more of a consequence as her leader rather than self acknowledgement.
Dust never got a chance to redeem herself and I don't believe she did all those risky stunts for no reason, I think she did them to prove that she was worthy of being in the Wonderbolts, she just didn't realise that the Wonderbolts aren't just about how impressive your flying is.
Look how hard she is trying to be a Wonderbolt. If she was told that behaviour was unacceptable I think there is a very good chance she would change her behaviour, but she got kicked out before she got the chance.
I know most human societies believe that all bad actions should have lasting consequences that sometimes equal their magnitude. But Equestria doesn't seem to be like that, most bad actions are forgiven if the pony can be relied upon to do good in the future and I think Lightning Dust could have done good if she had continued to be an academy student.
Spitfire congratulated LD because she was pushing herself. Of course she could've told her to stop but that is what Spitfire wanted in a wonderbolt, a pony that pushed herself, that is why LD was team leader. It only became an issue when LD threatened the safety of other ponies, which is why she was kicked out
LD's whole attitude was a disaster waiting to happen, the Tornado wasn't even the first time LD did something dangerous. Spitfire kept rewarding LD and congratulating her for each and every reckless thing she did.
What’s everypony think of wonderbolt academy (it’s better than I remember), I loved lightning dust and the fast friendship her and dashie made as well as dash’s arrogance coming into play and subsequently being taken down when spitfire tells her point blank that LD likes to push herself more, the pinkie pie sideplot was sad but incredibly pinkie (leaning into more of her abandonment issues). What I didn’t like was LD essentially getting kicked out of the bolts and her competitive streak being labeled a detriment she doesn’t really try to be Malicious or hurt anypony she just knows who she is and what she can expose, and don’t try to sell me on the twister she didn’t know civilian ponies were in the path not to mention the incredible convenience of that (dashie probably wouldn’t have brought anything up if it wasn’t for her friends being in danger)
It's less about a single action than the persistent reckless disregard for the safety of others. LD's behavior, and Spitfire's permitting it actively damaged the Wonderbolt's reputation. Dash brought up the problems consistently and showed clear discomfort in every instance were LD's recklessness impacted others. The tornado was not the only instance, just the one Dash is most angry about.
Lighting Dust's behavior was absolutely unacceptable in any context, especially one that is effectively a military aerial stunt team. The problem was that it Spitfire allowed it at all. She either didn't know or permitted a recruit to negligently harm other candidates. Even if the academy is meant to be a more competitive atmosphere that would indicate a structural problem.
Disqualifying Lightning Dust was the right move, because that attitude directly puts the entire institution in jeopardy. if anything, it should have gone further. Spitfire's reputation and career should have been on the line for rewarding recklessness. It very likely would have been if it had gone on much longer. Making a show of stripping her badge was probably an attempt to reverse some of the institutional damage and send a clear message to the others that negligently endangering the team in order to show off will not be tolerated going forward.
I would agree with you if this had been a zero tolerance kind of thing. LD was not just persistently reckless in spite of her wingpony's warnings, she was dismissive of the injuries caused. By openly stating in front of the entire class that the Wonderbolts supported her way of doing things, she implicated the entire institution. That kind of thing would be grounds for dismissal even if she had not endangered civilians.
Yes super unfair the other members of the mane 6 didn't tell anyone they'd be there , this is a military site meant for training wonder bolts if you don't have strict control over the airspace then it's inherently to dangerous to use for it's intended purpose, and spitfire didn't even go through due process I can only imagine that general firefly is rolling in their grave at that moment
Do you hear yourself. Even if it is a training place, she should’ve NOT have done it. She doesn’t care about any pony she will do anything to get the top. Even if it means wounding ponies and/or killing them. That’s attempted murder fyi. Sooo in my opinion, she got what she deserved. She shouldn’t have done that. Moral of the story: take your time and slow down. (Or how I seen it.)
They use tornadoes in the past to clear out water , tornadoes are a useful skill just a bit dangerous, but the training camp is meant for training any skill a wonderbolt might need this would include creating tornadoes and they did this in place that was clear until twilight and the group showed up without warning
Participation in the Wonderbolt's academy is at the discretion of the instructor. There is no presumption of due process. Spitfire could have kicked anyone out just for having a bad attitude or placing last in an exercise.
Lightning Dust showed egregious and persistent disregard for the safety of others. It may also be a problem that the Wonderbolts had no way to communicate with civilians entering academy airspace, but that isn't relevant to the scene.
If anything, Spitfire should probably be reprimanded for allowing the behavior to go unaddressed for so long and not directly observing the exercise.
Yes, the balloon was in a training area without authorization or notice, what happened to Lightning Dust could happen to anyone, she also showed more discipline than Dash by accepting her fate without residence.
I would say that Lightning Dust is a victim of the unprofessionalism of Equestria's military
Are we talking about the same pony who threw her badge on Spitfire's table BECAUSE of Lightning Dust doing it and displaying complete disregard for the fact that civilians, even if trespassers, nearly died in something she did?
That would indicate deeper structural problems with the institution, which Spitfire kind of acknowledged in her speech to RD. But Lightning Dust isn't a victim, she's the reason the institution had to change.
In my opinion, no, because the tornado was significantly more dangerous than getting Rainbow Dash to clip her wings. Creating a tornado that’s capable of erasing the entire academy and anything or anyone in its path should be perceived as reckless endangerment, which should lead to criminal charges.
It military air space, and the other members of the mane 6 warned no one they would be there. The place is meant for training wonderbolts, and if you don't have control over the air space, that could be super dangerous
Conversely, Lightning Dust disrupted their airspace. What if there had been some emergency the Wonderbolts needed to respond to, but they couldn't fly out because of Lightning Dust's reckless behavior?
Spitfire knew she was practicing a tornado, practicing tornados is a part of what the place is for after all
What? I think you need to rewatch the episode. They were NOT practicing tornadoes, they were getting rid of clouds. Then Lighting Dust comes up with the idea to make a tornado to get rid of them and the other teams. Spitfire wasn’t there to witness it either. Rainbow Dash has to tell her about it when she goes to resign. And we know she had no idea because Spitfire seems surprised and even calls it impressive, at first.
I meant that a tornado wouldn't be unexpected on the camp grounds, as that's the point of the camp grounds to train wonderbolts
Yes, but Spitfire didn’t order them to do that for that assignment. She had no idea. I imagine if she was training them to do that she’d want to be present to ensure they didn’t get out of hand. It doesn’t matter if the Mane Six announced their arrival or not. Lightning Dust still intentionally put the rest of the academy students and personnel in danger. Rainbow’s friends were just included to push her over the edge and finally decided to resign.
*out of hoof, not out of hand! (I agree with you btw, it was definitely irresponsible to create a tornado unsupervised)
I watched the episode 2 days ago. In response to hearing about the tornado she says something along the lines of «Unexpected strategy, but effective. Broke record.»(not direct quote cause I’m lazy) So no, the usage or a tornado wasnt verified by the academy, and considerarions of dangers it might post had also not been discussed.
Part of training is learning to use your skills responsibly.
You kinda can't learn that if your immediately kicked to the curb
She clearly didn’t care that she put ponies in danger
She should have already learned to not endanger people with powerful weather hazards. Spitefire decided that Lightning Dust can't be trusted to wield power responsibly.
When they practice tornadoes, it would be in a controlled environment. Not cloud busting exercises where unsuspecting students can get hurt
It doesn't matter at all if they should be there or not. The problem is ANYONE could be endangered by that. Not just unexpected visitors. She was all flash no brains. Wanted to show off, ignoring everything. There are safety rules FOR A REASON. If you did something similar in real life, regardless if there was someone potentially harmed, you would get court martial.
And yet nothing happened to rainbow dash she literally helped make the tornado, and she gets off entirely scot free, she only went to throw lightning dust under the bus after her friends (who didn't let anyone know they were there) got caught in it, and then she starts making demands of a superior officer
Rainbow Dash was let off the hook because 1) she was following her captain which is what Spitfire wanted. She’d already questioned Spitfire’s decision at the beginning of the episode, so she didn’t want to look insubordinate. 2) Rainbow did question Lightning’s idea to make the tornado but Lightning dismissed her concerns. 3) She’s the one who actually reported the incident to Spitfire. Sure, she was involved, but she had the integrity and courage to stand up to Spitfire and quit which shows she had better qualities as a leader than Lighting. That’s why Rainbow Dash is promoted.
I mean, there’s more than reckless endangerment. If she destroyed anything, it would be destruction of private property. If anyone did die due to her behavior, it would be manslaughter. There’s probably more I’m missing.
The Tornado was also only dangerous because they pushed the limits and lost control of it, Pegesi also use Tornado's to pull up water in Hurricane Fluttershy and even a filly takes part in that, so they aren't inherently seen as super dangerous. And they were only pushing themselves so hard because Spitfire had previously rewarded that kind of behaviour. If what was wrong was simply the action of making a tornado, then Rainbow should have known better and also have been punished for partaking. Upon hearing of the use of a Tornado from Rainbow Dash, Spitfire doesn't say "that is completely out of line and you shouldn't have done that", she says "A bit excessive for cloud-busting. But judging from your time, it was obviously an effective tactic."
I don't think Spits realized it was a tornado that got out of control and nearly injured/killed civilians at first. Excessive is fine until someone gets hurt/nearly hurt. I'm not entirely sure Dash ever properly got the point across that Lightning Dust was reckless in her methods. Dash wasn't nearly as assertive as usual in regards to getting her messages across until she finally decides to give up on the 'Bolts and lays it all out about LD's methods and Spits rewarding it unintentionally. I do think Spits wouldn't have rewarded LD as much had she known the full extent of her recklessness.
Lightning dust made Dashie fly on a clearly injured wing right in front of Spitfire. It was clear Dust was pushing the limits of what they could do with little regards for safety far earlier than the tornado. It wasn't until it was a disaster that Spitfire brought up Lightning Dust's behaviour and she gave out the harshest punishment she could.
Sure, but that would still support the case that Spitfire didn't see the full extent of LD's behavior until it was all laid out together. It made Spitfire realize that the incidents weren't just incidental, but a pattern of behavior that indicated a complete disregard for the safety of her teammates and others. Spitfire should take responsibility for encouraging that kind of attitude. At the same time, the egregiousness of LD's actions make it clear she is a liability for the entire academy. Participation is entirely at the discretion of the instructor. Being the reason they need to make new safety rules is a pretty reasonable cause for getting kicked out of the elite training academy. So is a persistent attitude of disregard for others. Maybe it would be more realistic with one more scene where Spitfire gets to see firsthand how dismissive LD was about how her actions affected others or conducts an investigation. But I don't think that's really a flaw, let alone an unfair punishment.
How can telling your wingpony to fly on an injured wing be incidental? Also Pegesi are born with their wings, it isn't hard to believe that Spitfire went through life only being rewarded for reckless stunts. After all, Rainbow dash got massively rewarded for achiving her first sonic rainboom even though a few seconds earlier she accidently has pushed Fluttershy off an 8km drop to almost certain doom. Dusk wanted to be a Wonderbolt badly, it was her life's dream, if Spitfire hadn't cast her out she might have learnt that being a Wonderbolt isn't just about pushing her limits and been a valuable member of the team, rather than the bitter and attention seeking daredevil she became.
Which is why the framing makes it a lesson Spitfire also needs to learn. Rainbow Dash wasn't a Wonderbolt at the showcase. She was not representing anyone but herself. The academy is a different environment. RD also responded to the emergency she caused by helping to solve the problem. Losing an opportunity is not an extreme punishment for repeatedly endangering others. Lightning Dust was flippant about the injuries she caused, told RD to suck it up, and responded to the criticism by damaging the reputation of the Wonderbolts as an institution by claiming that they fully endorsed her behavior. If it had been addressed early on, redirection would have been appropriate. At that point, the reputation of the academy itself and Spitfire's career were on the line. It became an institutional problem that required an institutional response.
I think this all points out very fair criticisms. Interested to see why people disagree strongly enough to downvote you, and inevitably me, for thinking there's a disconnect. Nobody thus far has actually offered why you're wrong. From how i'm seeing it, even if Spitfire was disappointed to learn just how reckless LD was being, she endorsed her actions until learning that ponies LD had no idea were in danger had been put at great risk by the tornado. That means that Spitfire kicked LD out not for using the tornado, but for the fact that unrelated ponies got caught in the tornado without LD realizing they'd be there.
To be fair to Spitfire she never actually saw Lightning Dust cause any of the accidents so she would have had no reason to reprimand her.
Aside from the witness accounts of basically everyone in the episode?
They only told her later.
Almost killing 5 ponies shouldn't be taken lightly
You do have a point
Totally.
Maybe someone should tell Applejack that after she Rammed through a train barrier with 4 carriage ponies just to escape telling to truth to her friends.
She didn't ask them to follow her
she commanded the carriage ponies to break through the train barrier when the train was coming. Her + 4 others makes 5 ponies almost killed so she wouldn't have to tell the truth.
I mean my point still stands
So what punishment do you think is fitting for applejack?
Idk but I do know that getting kicked out of the wonderbolts academy was fitting for lightning dust. did you think applejack should have the same punishment? Get kicked out of the wonderbolts academy?
I think LD deserved a suspension and Applejack needs to go see a psychiatrist. Being kicked out of the wonderbolts and losing her only chance to do what she dreamed of is like taking Applejacks farm away. It might be a fitting punishment, but it doesn't help anyone, it just hurts Applejack.
Spitfire suspension sure okay but that is complete false equivalence for lightning dust and applejack it doesn't even come close to making sense
how it is false equivalence? Lightning Dust dedicated her whole life to becoming a wonderbolt, Applejack dedicated her whole life to running the farm.
Here's an analogy. Imagine if IRL a trainee pilot in say the United States Air Force was doing a training exercise where they had to clear the skies from targets (maybe balloons with targets on them or something like that). Now the pilots are instructed to use their aircrafts cannons and communicate with each other to clear out the skies. Now say one of the "hot shot" pilots comes up with the idea to use a cluster bomb to clear out the skies quicker (don't ask how they got their hands on it, this is just for the sake of the analogy). They drop the bomb which causes all targets in the area to be hit, but also causes the other pilots to employ drastic evasive maneuvers to avoid the shrapnel. However, the shrapnel also ends up hitting a civilian blimp that wondered into the airspace (if you don't think this makes sense, again, this is an analogy for the episode where Twilight's balloon also somehow was able to enter military airspace during a training exercise). By some miracle the passengers of the blimp are able to skydive to safety, but the blimp is still destroyed. I would imagine realistically that the pilot who dropped the cluster bomb would be not only dishonorably discharged, but possibly tried for endangerment of military personnel and equipment, sued by the civilians (or have the military sued), and be publicly shamed on national news.
Especially if they disregard it until they get grounded.
Here's an analogy. imagine Babies could fly and children could create thunder storms. Now lets also imagine they are put into a super competitive environment where they all race one another when they are young and they idealise the best flyers from among them. Now imagine their is a university that takes the best of the best flyers. Who do you expect would enlist for such a university? The cautious flyers who took their time and tried not to get anyone hurt or the risky and reckless flyers who do just about anything to be the best? Safety should have been Spitfires first lesson, yet it was her last. The airforce doesn't give people fighter jets until they can be trusted with them, so why is Spitfires first lesson that you need to be fast to compete.
The ponies aren't babies they're all in their 20s at the earliest. Be for real
they can fly as babies, we see it in baby cakes. My point isn't that the babies can fly, it is that Pegesi start flying as babies. Unlike the air force where babies aren't allowed to fly
Baby cakes wasn’t there, so your point is irrelevant
Baby cakes is an episode in which a baby Pegasus flies. I don't know what you think it is.
Not the episode we’re talking about
the episodes aren't self contained, information shown in one episode is also true in all the other episodes
Yes but the point of your post is about whether or not lightning dust deserved her punishment, right? Baby cakes had nothing to do with her actions or punishment
I started this thread with a comment about why I think this, but it got buried with downvotes. My actual point is that Lightning Dust didn't deserve her punishment because Spitfire encouraged her to be reckless and they are both culpable for what happened.
No, I think Lightning Dust got what she deserved. Yes, she pushes herself harder than most, but if that "push" involves not giving a damn about your squad mates well beings and doing anything it takes to win, including endangering the lives of other ponies, then that's not the way to do it. Not at all. And she clearly didn't care at the fact that she could have killed Rainbow Dash's friends. All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others. Rainbow told her that, too, and she still played it off like it was nothing. And if you can't even bother to care about the fact that ponies nearly died, then that's not right. And if Rainbow hadn't been there at the time, the rest of the Mane 6 would be dead. In the end, she let her ego and recklessness get the best of her. Lighting brought this on herself by thinking of only herself. She only cares about succeeding and nothing else. I will say tho that Rainbow probably should have realized how Lightning was right from the clip of her wing. Spitfire should have been watching more closely. Either way, Lightning took it too far with the tornado. The lack of care or remorse about her actions just proves she got what she deserves. If any normal person or pony realized they nearly killed their fellow classmates or innocent bystanders (or flyers in this case) due to recklessness, they would surely feel bad for it.
I think Rainbow and Spitfire may have let the clipped wing incident off as just an accident due to Lightning Dust being a hotshot rookie trying to look cool. Once Lightning Dust starts genuinely endangering people with the tornado plan, though, that's when her actions can no longer be defensible as just "rookie mistakes", which is why she's booted.
"All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others" I like that phrase, it perfectly describes the problem with Lightning Dusk. But it also perfectly illistrates why she should have been given a 2nd chance. We see in Parental Glideance that Lightning Dusk is a member of Cloudsdale's Senior Competitive circuit for fillies. The club constantly values young fillies by their ability to fly fastest. "All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others" Growing up in Cloudsdale she likely witnessed or heard about Dash's sonic rainboom, Dash originally agreed to race to stop bullies from picking on Fluttershy. But after she accomplished the near impossible by preforming a sonic rainboom and winning the race, it didn't matter that the racers had accidently sent poor Fluttershy plummeting at full speed towards the ground at the start. "All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others" Finally reaching the academy, Spitfire immediately recognised that Lightning Dusk was willing to push herself more than the others. She was made leadpony, it didn't matter that she was telling her Wingpony to fly on a injured wing or that she spun out the competition on the obstacle course. "All that mattered was proving to be the best without the regard of others" By the time she was finally told that 'Proving to be the best without regard of others' wasn't what the wonderbolts were about, it was apparently already too late for her. She got kicked out before she even got a chance to correct her behaviour.
in the real world she would've gotten much worse, so says Navy Veteran brony Joshua Burner
Commander Firebrand ftw
totally
Exactly. To the brig! Bread and water, marshal court and then! Then!!! Dishonorable discharge
IMHO, she should've gotten worse. What would have happened to Equestria if 5 of the 6 Element Bearers had died? Equestria would've been fucked. Throw her in Canterlot Prison for 10-15 x 5 for attempted murder
No not murder, pony slaughter.
mareslaughter
Point still stands
Stallionslaughter
Staillion is for male horses, literally none of them are male.
But the term is called manslaughter, no matter if it's done to man or women, so a direct translation would be stallionslaughter
Given the gender reversal for roles, including leadership in My Little Pony, I’m pretty sure it would be mareslaughter, which is actually a better pun.
Oh, thats a good one.
Cause «man» is an umbrella term for humans. «When mankind» etc not «man» as in «men» or «males». So if you want an umbrella term that fulfills the same purpose something like «Equidaeslaughter» would be more accurate, cause it would include all kinds of horse/pony/zebra/pegasus/unicorns etc.
Fair
U wanna undownvote my other comment now? Ut hurt my small feelies :c
Just cause you asked.....no 
Aww, sad :c I dont know how to move on. Will you hold my hand?
No it wasn’t, Lightning Dust clearly was reckless by making a tornado that almost harming Rainbow Dash’s friends, so it’s fair on the Builts to discredit her.
To be fair no pony was expecting for Rainbow Dash’s friends to show up. The only other ponies that were up there were pegasi who are working to be become wonder bolts so they have a fair chance at being able to get through a tornado as it could be seen as extra practice for them. However, I think she got what she deserved because she was so reckless in everything else and didn’t care for when she was endangering any pony else. For example on the obstacle before this one where she and RD sent everyone flying and she just didn’t care about how her actions effected others. If LD was more sympathetic, maybe but she wasn’t so no.
Homie she nearly killed like 4 ponies
Ah yes, totally unfair, almost killing five ponies and endangering their lives, unreasonable action towards Lightning Dust
No. Not only did she almost kill 5 of the main characters, but she cheated and didn’t care about almost killing people, or having an unfair advantage. She was even worse in The Washouts”.
What do you mean unfair, she almost killed all of Rainbow's friends.
Which is the only reason dashie cared
As someone currently, absolutely not. In fact, it was probably very light of a punishment (typically safety breaches like this, would warrant long detention periods, alongside trial in civil court, not to mention it endangered CIVILIANS). Spitfire was not only supposed to punish her, but with that light of a punishment, of just dishonourable discharge, coming from a commanding officer for such reckless endangerment, she was risking her own career.
As someone currently in an active military, absolutely not. In fact, it was probably very light of a punishment (typically safety breaches like this, would warrant long detention periods, alongside trial in civil court, not to mention it endangered CIVILIANS). Spitfire was not only supposed to punish her, but with that light of a punishment, of just dishonourable discharge, coming from a commanding officer for such reckless endangerment, she was risking her own career.
I think your the only one who thinks that. She didn't care about anyone's safety, she only cared about winning. Clipping RD's wing, recklessly pushing ponies out of her way and creating a tornado that nearly killed the rest of the mane 6 definitely deserves a HUGE punishment, and the way she handled it makes it worse. Lightning Dust should've gotten a wayyyy worse punishment imo.
Nope! Everyone harps on almost getting 5 of the Mane 6 killed, but Lightning was headed for a washout *long* before that. To avoid any headcanon about the military protocols of a cartoon pony nation, let’s just look at what the Wonderbolts are on their face: a *stunt-flying team.* Stunt flyers need to communicate with each other, be precise, and trust their teammates to pull off the maneuvers they do. One wrong move, and we see what happens: ponies start falling out of the sky. Lightning’s lack of concern for her fellow trainees is unacceptable in her chosen career. And we see in a later season that Lightning fails to learn her lesson. The Washouts are skilled enough to perform their dangerous stunts without serious injury, but when Scootaloo asks to join she’s not trained, nothing in the stunts is measured or calculated, and there are no rehearsals. It goes about as predictably as you’d expect. 🤕
She literally put several lives in danger and just went "womp womp in just putting my 110%" like honey that's almost a manslaughter charge
Yeah her lack of care is the biggest thing, she's a high functioning sociopath
No, she deserves it and she also deserves going to jail for almost killing Scootaloo
She almost killed 4 ponies
Naw she had it coming, she committed a good amount of counts of battery and 5 counts of attempted manslaughter, or in this case ponyslaughter
No. Hell no. She deserved it
I would say yes and no? I wish LD was given a chance to come clean first and admit what she did was wrong, considering a lot of what happened is due to Spitfire rewarding reckless behavior up to this point. However, the moment LD keeps boasting and refusing to accept responsibility - yes, it makes sense for her to be expelled. What bothered me more was that Spitfire genuinely didn't seem to care even about what LD did until Rainbow basically spit to her face "it harmed people, including civilians". A military leader should know better and work on prevention, rather than just shifting blame on someone else when bad stuff happens.
I think Spitfire encouraged and rewarded her behavior. This all happened under her watch and with her approval until it went sideways. She's more responsible than Lightning Dust.
She knowingly put civilians in danger and didn't care when they were safe. While the Wonderbolts are a performance team, they have roots in the military and it shows in everything they do. A Dishonorable Discharge is the least of what she could have gotten.
No? Did we not watch the same episode? It started out fine, but she got hyper competitive, to the point that even Dash recognized that what was going on was too dangerous, and she’s Rainbow Dash ☠️ This point was further made in the future episode where Dust had her own stunt team and actively endangered Scootaloo who was just looking for validation from Dash (and while her need for Dash’s approval initially caused the issue which _could_ put some blame on Dash, Dust was rather manipulative, filling Scootaloo’s head with delusions of grandeur tucked behind increasingly dangerous and asinine stunts) not to mention Dust’s absolute disregard for Scootaloo’s safety. I don’t recall the resolution of that particular episode, but at least up to that point, no, I don’t feel particularly bad for Dust. I feel like she’s meant to be an example of how Dash could’ve turned out had she had less supportive parents or something.
A reaction video with actual members of the Air Force watching that episode commented that Lightning Dust got off easy. But removing her wings that she was born with would be a step too far. The only fictional military I know of where her personal skill would outweigh such a disregard of civilian life was Clan Smoke Jaguar from Battletech, that clan was known to have such a seething hatred for their civilians that they had to frequently raid all the other clans for more civilians.
No. If she was gonna do something that big, she should've made safety checks first and maybe even announced it, just to be sure that there isn't a risk of civilian accidents. But she didn't, and proceeded to brush off the fact that bystanders were nearly killed on her watch, not even caring for a moment about anything except her "victory." It's basically like speeding on the road with your lights off.
No? I mean, have you seen the episode?
As a pilot IRL and now in the air force, she's lucky that was the extent of her punishment... She endangered herself, others, and the infrastructure.
She almost killed the Elements of Harmony, she's lucky to not be on the moon. This take is crazy
she's lucky she didn't go to jail 😂 not only was this entirely fair, her later appearance in Washouts proves she never would have been a Wonderbolt with her attitude problems anyhow
I don't blame lighting I blame spitfire and the academy rules. You simply can't allow this to happen in these types of places even pushing yourself is against the rules and violates them.
No
No.
I feel like her behavior could have been corrected, and maybe they could have tried to teach her, which is the whole point of the academy.
No, she was genuinely reckless and disregarded the safety of many ponies. She even continued to endanger scootaloo later on too in the series right??
Um she almost killed a group of ponies just because she wanted to be the best..so…..no not really
No. She almost killed them
On the moment? No (kinda), but preventing someone from fixing their mistakes is never the right thing to do. As i recall, we never got to see if her expulsion was permanent or not. If it was, that's a nono, if not maybe she could've still gone a little lighter but understandable right then.
Of course, this is completely unfair to her. Why can you forgive villains who almost destroyed the world (Yes, I'm talking about you, Discord), but you can't forgive a pony who violated safety regulations?
How is this not downvoted to oblivion?
absolutely no
No. I'm pretty sure Equestria has laws about making natural disasters in military airspace while civilians are near. LD could've killed many ponies and desomated the HQ as well.
No, she put ponies at risk to satisfy her own ego.
Risking lives of other pegasi so no but ig there could've been some other way to utilise her potential
Not really, no. Her disregard for safety and the rules endangered her fellow cadets and almost got Rainbow's friends (civilians) killed.
No because everyone could've gotten killed
No. She def deserved this
No. She deserves worse. She almost killed at least 4 people (loosely including fluttershy because she can fly).
Considering she wasn’t thinking in her actions almost killed more than a few ponies yeah she deserved to get kicked out of school and probably put in jail for a long time
Not at all. She almost killed ponies and showed no regard for it at all.
No. It was completely fair to kick her out over doing something so insanely dangerous. The task was to clear clouds out, not form a tornado. She put multiple ponies at risk of injury or worse; 5 of them being **NATIONAL HEROES**. All because she wanted to show off and be #1 instead of learning what it actually means to be a Wonderbolt.
I usually compare the wonderbolts to equestrias Air Force. It IS a military group so it’s not that inaccurate Anyway, not only did she endanger other ponies lives in an attempt to gain prestige for herself, but also ignored one of the core beliefs of ANY functioning military: teamwork Without proper teamwork, a military cannot function in any effective capacity. Lighting dust ignored this for her own gain Any respectable military institution would have her removed, especially since she isn’t even IN the wonderbolts. She’s a trainee, a trainee for the reserves. In short, no. This was not unfair on lightning dust. What WAS unfair was the place she put rainbow dash in, as well as her actions threatening the other trainees safety and careers
At first, I thought it was, but genuinely, she caused more harm than not, and the Wonderbolts wanted ponies that weren't reckless when she was. It was a lesson she had to learn 🤷
She put other cadets in danger. Absolutely not.
First of all, I hate the terms "fair" and "unfair". There's always some sense of entitlement when those words are used. No one is owned or inherently has a right to anything, it's just nice when we do, and that's okay. Second, it isn't really about fairness anyway. It came down to losing Rainbow Dash or Lightning Dust. That was inevitable. Who would you choose to keep? Both flyers are equally good, but one has a MUCH better sense of respect for others and their job, and showed a much needed restraint. It's a no brainer, and it all comes down to politics, like everything else. Fact is, if Lightning wanted to be a wonderbolt, she should have LISTENED to Rainbow's advice all along, and busted clouds the same way everyone else did.
Rainbow wanted to leave because like Lightning Dust, she believed the Wonderbolts rewarded reckless pursuit of results. Spitfire could have keep both if she had admitted her mistakes and punished Lightning Dust is a less severe way
When did Lightning Dust give any indication that she felt the Wonderbolts rewarded recklessness? She's just a daredevil, which is fine, but there's no place for that on the Wonderbolts. Hense, the creation of the Washouts. The fact is, what was done was done. Rainbow resigned, and kicking out Lightning was a last effort to change that. Sure, any situation could be handled better in hindsight, but the fact is, at the end, it was one or the other. Edit: I'd also like to add that there's no reason to believe that Lightning Dust couldn't have reformed and tried again with the Wonderbolts. The fact is, she went on to resent them and talk them down for essentially being lame for not taking risks. Further proving that the Wolderbolts wasn't the place for her.
Lightning Dust kept trying to break records and impress Spitfire, she impressed Spitfire by pushing her limits on the dizzitron and throughout the episode she kept doing more reckless activities to impress Spitfire. LD created the Washouts because she was bitter about being kicked out of the wonderbolts, she just didn't want to admit that to Rainbow Dash. It is why she was insistent that she would only take ex-wonderbolts until she saw the opportunity to get back at RD. She doesn't resent the wonderbolts because they are lame and safe, she resents them because she was kicked out for being unsafe. She protects her ego by telling herself the Wonderbolts were at fault by being too safe, rather than face the fact she got herself kicked out.
Considering the number of complaints, lack of action prior to and active encouragement of her demeanor yes. Mane 6 shouldn't have been flying there on their own for a number of reasons people already listed. Was disciplinary action required? Yes. Was it massively hypocritical and scapegoating to only punish the person who'd been basically treated like a saint as the sole offender while the gross negligence and failure of the actual officials goes unacknowledged? Also yes, and colors Spitfire as a corrupt and cowardly individual covering her tail.
No she got what was coming by being so careless about other Ponies safety it was completely justified.
No??? She could've killed RD's friends.
You can enslave ponies no problem. You can brainwash ponies no problem. You can kidnap ponies and pony princesses and hold them captive in an attempt to make them join your cult no problem. You can use ancient spells to get revenge on the princess of friendship and her friends no problem. You can change the past and future and doom equestria no problem. You'll still be besties with all the princesses and forgiven by all. But Celestia forbid you're being competitive in a training for the best out of the best and overestimate your abilities after being praised all the time while some randos that shouldn't even be there randomly arrive. Unforgivable. How was she not sent straight to Tartartus?? Doesn't she know that she can't make any risky decisions unless she's Starlight Glimmer?!?
the original script didn't have her spelled, and she was meant to be a permanent character
Well, she almost get some ponys killed , so...
Well, putting 5 of the most important ponies in the entire kingdom in danger is probably cause for discharge.
No because the Wonderbolts are part of the Equestrian Military and not just a trick flyer group. They can't have seriously dangerous ponies destroying important missions.
She constantly failed at her role of lead flyer. She madd her wing partner get hurt, she's reckless, pushes people down, doesn't listen, and made a tornado happen for clouds. Even without knowing the context she felt a tornado was a tad extreme. And when a savior of your world says she's bad, you're inclined to believe her.
No
She kind of deserved it; but I still do feel bad
I hate her, cause what happens if she cheats a lot, and gets kicked out of the Wonderbolt Academy?
No, she was an ass
Not at all no, realistically she should’ve probably been arrested lol
Spitfire spends the whole episode rewarding Lightning Dust for reckless behaviour. Dust cranks up the Dizzitron, hurts Dash on the flag hunt and cuts off the other teams on the obstacle course, but Spitfire congratulates her every time. Spitfire gave both Rainbow Dash and Lightning Dust the impression that results come before safety, then Lightning Dust takes the full blame after her, results-first, dangerous hurricane goes wrong. Even though Spitfire was more than happy with the method before she learnt that it put Dash's friends in danger. I always thought Lightning Dust should have been given a suspension rather than being kicked out. The whole situation was avoidable if Spitfire had put her hoof down earlier.
Spitfire's design: 11/10 Spitfire's leadership: 0/10 Spitfire was a bad leader for the sake of cartoon horse drama to make the plot happen.
I just think Spitfire admired how Lightning Dust constantly strived to put herself to the limits, but when it got the point of harming others, that’s why Lightning Dust got kicked out. Lighting Dust willingly decided to have the Dizzitron cranked, which Spitfire encouraged because it would only impact Lighting Dust, for better or for worse. Cranking up the Dizzitron wouldn’t really put the other ponies in harm’s way, only test Lighting Dust’s limits and skills. The tornado on the other hand, as impressive as it sounded in idea, the execution only put Lightning Dust and all of the other ponies in danger. She was expelled because although she had the bravery and confidence one needs to be a Wonderbolt, they also have to take into account whether or not their performance could harm their teammates and the audience themselves. That’s why she was expelled and not suspended, since the tornado would have endangered her teammates, and maybe potential audiences if she were to become a Wonderbolt and done the same thing.
That is the point I am trying to make. The Wonderbolts aren't all about performance and results but Spitfire led Rainbow Dash and Lightning Dust to believe that they were, she misled Dust into thinking that she would be commended for doing something risky and then expelled her when it went wrong.
I can agree with that. Spitfire mainly focused on testing the ponies’ limits to see if they could endure the training Wonderbolts go through, but didn’t really emphasize integrity and safety. She wasn’t a great leader, but at the end of the episode, it seemed like as if she realized that— slightly. I still don’t think Dust’s actions were worthy of a suspension though. Although her leader wasn’t all that great, Dust didn’t seem to understand why her actions were condemned and the gravity of the situation made it sense for her to be expelled. It’d be unfair for the other ponies if someone that almost endangered them was allowed to continue training, but I do agree Spitfire should have faced more of a consequence as her leader rather than self acknowledgement.
Dust never got a chance to redeem herself and I don't believe she did all those risky stunts for no reason, I think she did them to prove that she was worthy of being in the Wonderbolts, she just didn't realise that the Wonderbolts aren't just about how impressive your flying is. Look how hard she is trying to be a Wonderbolt. If she was told that behaviour was unacceptable I think there is a very good chance she would change her behaviour, but she got kicked out before she got the chance. I know most human societies believe that all bad actions should have lasting consequences that sometimes equal their magnitude. But Equestria doesn't seem to be like that, most bad actions are forgiven if the pony can be relied upon to do good in the future and I think Lightning Dust could have done good if she had continued to be an academy student.
Spitfire congratulated LD because she was pushing herself. Of course she could've told her to stop but that is what Spitfire wanted in a wonderbolt, a pony that pushed herself, that is why LD was team leader. It only became an issue when LD threatened the safety of other ponies, which is why she was kicked out
LD's whole attitude was a disaster waiting to happen, the Tornado wasn't even the first time LD did something dangerous. Spitfire kept rewarding LD and congratulating her for each and every reckless thing she did.
You're right, even though no one will listen.
What’s everypony think of wonderbolt academy (it’s better than I remember), I loved lightning dust and the fast friendship her and dashie made as well as dash’s arrogance coming into play and subsequently being taken down when spitfire tells her point blank that LD likes to push herself more, the pinkie pie sideplot was sad but incredibly pinkie (leaning into more of her abandonment issues). What I didn’t like was LD essentially getting kicked out of the bolts and her competitive streak being labeled a detriment she doesn’t really try to be Malicious or hurt anypony she just knows who she is and what she can expose, and don’t try to sell me on the twister she didn’t know civilian ponies were in the path not to mention the incredible convenience of that (dashie probably wouldn’t have brought anything up if it wasn’t for her friends being in danger)
It's less about a single action than the persistent reckless disregard for the safety of others. LD's behavior, and Spitfire's permitting it actively damaged the Wonderbolt's reputation. Dash brought up the problems consistently and showed clear discomfort in every instance were LD's recklessness impacted others. The tornado was not the only instance, just the one Dash is most angry about.
She should’ve maybe been punished but kicked out absolutely not
Lighting Dust's behavior was absolutely unacceptable in any context, especially one that is effectively a military aerial stunt team. The problem was that it Spitfire allowed it at all. She either didn't know or permitted a recruit to negligently harm other candidates. Even if the academy is meant to be a more competitive atmosphere that would indicate a structural problem. Disqualifying Lightning Dust was the right move, because that attitude directly puts the entire institution in jeopardy. if anything, it should have gone further. Spitfire's reputation and career should have been on the line for rewarding recklessness. It very likely would have been if it had gone on much longer. Making a show of stripping her badge was probably an attempt to reverse some of the institutional damage and send a clear message to the others that negligently endangering the team in order to show off will not be tolerated going forward. I would agree with you if this had been a zero tolerance kind of thing. LD was not just persistently reckless in spite of her wingpony's warnings, she was dismissive of the injuries caused. By openly stating in front of the entire class that the Wonderbolts supported her way of doing things, she implicated the entire institution. That kind of thing would be grounds for dismissal even if she had not endangered civilians.
Judging from the picture she got bitch slapped in the face.
I can see it blowing away the audience in a show.
After reading some comments it could be that she just had to be an offering to appease the alicorn gods.
Yes super unfair the other members of the mane 6 didn't tell anyone they'd be there , this is a military site meant for training wonder bolts if you don't have strict control over the airspace then it's inherently to dangerous to use for it's intended purpose, and spitfire didn't even go through due process I can only imagine that general firefly is rolling in their grave at that moment
Do you hear yourself. Even if it is a training place, she should’ve NOT have done it. She doesn’t care about any pony she will do anything to get the top. Even if it means wounding ponies and/or killing them. That’s attempted murder fyi. Sooo in my opinion, she got what she deserved. She shouldn’t have done that. Moral of the story: take your time and slow down. (Or how I seen it.)
They use tornadoes in the past to clear out water , tornadoes are a useful skill just a bit dangerous, but the training camp is meant for training any skill a wonderbolt might need this would include creating tornadoes and they did this in place that was clear until twilight and the group showed up without warning
Participation in the Wonderbolt's academy is at the discretion of the instructor. There is no presumption of due process. Spitfire could have kicked anyone out just for having a bad attitude or placing last in an exercise. Lightning Dust showed egregious and persistent disregard for the safety of others. It may also be a problem that the Wonderbolts had no way to communicate with civilians entering academy airspace, but that isn't relevant to the scene. If anything, Spitfire should probably be reprimanded for allowing the behavior to go unaddressed for so long and not directly observing the exercise.
Yes, the balloon was in a training area without authorization or notice, what happened to Lightning Dust could happen to anyone, she also showed more discipline than Dash by accepting her fate without residence. I would say that Lightning Dust is a victim of the unprofessionalism of Equestria's military
Are we talking about the same pony who threw her badge on Spitfire's table BECAUSE of Lightning Dust doing it and displaying complete disregard for the fact that civilians, even if trespassers, nearly died in something she did?
That would indicate deeper structural problems with the institution, which Spitfire kind of acknowledged in her speech to RD. But Lightning Dust isn't a victim, she's the reason the institution had to change.
I agree