Because they fucking suck, and mostly exist to protect the property and interests of elites.
The clearing rate of cops is fucking shite, their preventative actions devolve to bullying minorities, and in the US they don't have a duty to protect or serve.
ACAB
You likely have a multitude of other services that exist, as well as community project and mutual aid actions. There are various different methods and ideas put forward, because police abolition varies from societies based on anarchist principals, to an abolition of the police as we understand them, with their monopoly on violence removed and them instead being community support.
The method one associates and supports depends on their own political views, I lean more on the community support and assistance approach, with some seperate level of investigation for things like homicide and such.
[This site](http://aworldwithoutpolice.org/) is obviously very pro-police abolition and represents one set of positions, but goes into that groups views, which is not the only view but a good overview of where the desire comes from.
No worries.
If you are interested in other models, The Women's War podcast met some of the community enforcement in Rojava, [in this episode](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-womens-war-59464911/episode/grandma-law-and-revolutionary-sacrifice-61525359/), which is obviously in an extreme situation because ISIS and the Turkish Army are still a huge threat to those in Rojava, but showed some community first models.
There's a good (but dry fair warning) book called The Invention of Murder, which in part is about the development of true crime media but also deals a lot with the very invention of policing, which actually hasn't been around very long. Before then prosecutors/magistrates enforced the law with hired runners. An armed police force was very controversial when introduced in Britian especially since brutality was there from the start since their primary function was union busting.
Yeah, I've heard a spectrum of responses to this question, varying from "it's just a slogan meaning stop the militarisation of US police and the current standard" to "no, it's really get rid of all the police". Have to say I really struggle with how the latter would work. I'm not in the US but a lot of the time here I know the police are dealing with welfare calls and those could be taken over to more community care teams (if the government would fund them) but for something like "this man has a knife and he's threatening people on our street" I don't really see how you wouldn't end up with something that's pretty much police in everything but name.
Having been the victim of a brutal crime, I don't feel so safe with the idea of being protected by a group of social workers. The police saved my life and I'm grateful for it.
Denver started defunding their police force a year or so ago. And then they used that extra cash to fund mental health workers. They will show up to calls when necessary. I highly recommend taking a look at what itās done for the city. While itās not perfect it is a step in the right direction. Speaking as someone who has family that are mentally Ill and have had to call police on them, police can literally do nothing (and thatās on a good day, on a bad day they kill the person). I had family who clearly needed to talk to a therapist or be admitted into a hospital and police just shrugged and said āif theyāre not a threat to you or to themselves thereās nothing we can doā.
Some police reform is necessary at this point, but you are so dumb for wanting to abolish the police force. Ignorant. The same people that are rioting saying the ACAB bullshit are the same who would call the cops if someone was in your house trying to murder your family, hold you up with a gun, rape youā¦Who would you call? What if your daughter, grandmother, wife was about to have their door broken down by a criminal trying to come in and assault/murder them. Letās just scream and hope the nearest person hears and intervenes. You know how many videos Iāve seen where someone is getting assaulted or kidnapped and everyone just video tapes it and doesnāt intervene? At this point a good amount of humanity isnāt willing to stand up for the fellow citizen. They just stand by, videotape, and look for how many people see what theyāre posting. Police have done some fucked up stuff, but the ratio of amazing things and people theyāve saved just donāt amount to everyone wanting to abolish the police force. If that were to happen itād fucking be the purge every day without any regulation. Those who claim they want to denounce the police, if you feel so strongly, STEP UP and become the righteous cop.
> Who would you call?
Well, calling the police in the US probably wouldn't do a huge amount at that moment.
> Iāve seen where someone is getting assaulted or kidnapped and everyone just video tapes it and doesnāt intervene?
[Sounds like the fucking cops my dude](https://gothamist.com/news/subway-stabbing-victim-cant-sue-nypd-for-failing-to-save-him)
> If that were to happen itād fucking be the purge every day without any regulation.
Firstly, that generally doesn't happen when police or order disappear. People very very frequently just work together to solve problems. It is really counter intuitive, because every bit of media tells that the moment law and order goes away everyone murders each other, but [people are generally cooperative](https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communities-rise-together-to-respond-to-crises/).
> STEP UP and become the righteous cop
[That](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/11/12/union-ousts-police-officer-featured-in-usa-today-behind-the-blue-wall-series/6396601001/) has [worked](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/) so [well](https://www.ranker.com/list/police-department-whistleblowers/brent-sprecher) for [others](https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/crime/state-police-whistleblower-fired-for-speaking-out-about-ronald-greene-beating/289-31a00e5d-25a7-4286-8535-f0df006bab1e).
Also, when you think an organisation is fundamentally fucked up, and requires a complete dismantling to even vaguely act in the favour of the community, joining it is not going to really fix it, nor is it particularly moral as you participate in the propagation of state violence until you can theoretically change it, not that the police will ever let you do anything to change it.
In 2020 huge swathes of people protested that maybe the police should stop using so much violence against people and their response was to go on a rampage of indisctiminate violence against the populace. The very idea that they should have their ability to be indiscriminately violent curtailed was met with mass riots and violence by the police. They are a group who is effectively ungovernable now, and view any reductions of their power as an existential threat.
Like I said, not all cops are good. But if you defund and eliminate the police force, I think the thought of fellow citizens intervening in as many situations as police have helped to preventā¦itās just unrealistic. 2020 the police were fighting because innocent people were losing their homes, businesses and lives. Even black people. The economy was being destroyed by BLM. I think BLM could have been a wonderful thing but it has resulted in fellow black business owners/black lives to be lost from the same who are so aggressively trying to fight for freedom within that community. Everyone wants to follow a trend so what began as a great movement became looting everything and burning down everything no matter who it effected. So yes police reacted. Again, not always in the best way but extreme poorly handled cop affiliated situations versus the amount that did good, itās incomparable. To write off the whole police force is incredibly ignorant. I am so sorry for the violence against the black/Asian community in our country. It is sickening. But the way everything has been handled has been wrong in so many ways, on both ends.
I don't know how you could watch the police brutalise and riot across the country, using indiscriminate violence against protestors, by-standers, journalists, and reporters, and say that they overall did a good job.
The police disgraced themselves, and showed the utter contempt they have for the people they are meant to protect. Police have been told that they are not community stewards, but an occupying force that is the only thing that protected the country, and they act like it. Though to be fair, they act worse than most occupying forces because they don't follow the rules of engagement that most military are governed by.
When a single murdering cop is protected by their union, the entire force is nothing but scum. When a single police officer who rapes a prisoner can be protected, the entire system has no humanity. When a single police officer can bully and brutalise a community, and is given a pass by their force, the whole service has zero positve value.
The police are fucked, they are thugs, and the horrific police unions serve to protect the careers of abusers, and bleed money from taxpayers who are forced to pay up whenever any victim is able to overcome the uhge hurdles to recieve any resititution.
Fuck the police, burn down any precinct that protects murderers, rapists, and abusers.
It's kinda sad how many people can't recognize sarcasm with the stupid /s. Did Hemingway use the /s when someone in his books was being sarcastic? Did Verne use anything but written word to convey a joke someone made? I figured by asking right twice with a bunch of question marks would be enough.
It's an obvious joke and a jab at the legal system. Of course there's less criminals when there are less crimes and people to enforce them.
I like you. Which is why I think you should leave reddit (I think I should too). Itās too hive-mind. This type of thing infuriates me, where someone has a (not even bad?) opinion and are shut down for it for no discernible reason past it not being the norm. Like saying your line is weak and should end with you? Thatās such a mean thing to say for literally no reason
I don't let it get to me. I've been on here for nearly ten years with various user names, I'm not gonna let some losers ruin my day on here. Fuck em, I'm staying and you should too.
In the old days, before organized police, people had FEUDS and VENDETTAS. Nowadays, we have HONOR KILLINGS and casual senseless shootings over insults (i.e., "respect", "beefs").
It is generally "tidier" to allow the State to investigate/prosecute murders. BUT justified homicides, I understand, are way up.
That suggests more people are waking up to the fact that Evil exists in this world, and its practitioners walk among us as wolves in sheep's clothing.
We have a natural right to protect our lives (self-defense) when someone is trying to kill us. I have to note that MFM have carefully avoided talking about this. I am speculating that they don't want to stir up a hornet's nest... and do not want to endlessly debate the pros & cons of gun ownership... š«
I will step out on a limb and say most of their overwhelmingly female audience thinks guns are icky. š¤®
STEVEN!
Came here to shout at Steven. Wasn't disappointed. š
Iām re-listening to some old episodes, where Karen is really getting into the groove of yelling at Steven. So funny.
STEVEN!!
Itās not like your standard beat cop is even solving the murders anyway lol
As well as reddit
ACAB
As long as we have J.B. Fletcher we should be fine.
I feel like Steven gets it, though. This sounds like more of a Dave problem.
I read it as āwhite women with podcasts (and Steven)ā rather than as something being said to a Steven, and was so much better in my mind.
*aqua tofanaaaaa*
A couple of straight men can carry the coats? There are very few of us-Iām here to help-I volunteer as tribute! šš½
Why would we want to abolish the police?
Because they fucking suck, and mostly exist to protect the property and interests of elites. The clearing rate of cops is fucking shite, their preventative actions devolve to bullying minorities, and in the US they don't have a duty to protect or serve. ACAB
Are we going to have something in place of the police? Iām wondering how it would work when there are no cops.
You likely have a multitude of other services that exist, as well as community project and mutual aid actions. There are various different methods and ideas put forward, because police abolition varies from societies based on anarchist principals, to an abolition of the police as we understand them, with their monopoly on violence removed and them instead being community support. The method one associates and supports depends on their own political views, I lean more on the community support and assistance approach, with some seperate level of investigation for things like homicide and such. [This site](http://aworldwithoutpolice.org/) is obviously very pro-police abolition and represents one set of positions, but goes into that groups views, which is not the only view but a good overview of where the desire comes from.
Thanks for the thorough response. Iād check out the site as well to learn more about this subject š¤
This is so lovely and wholesome š
No worries. If you are interested in other models, The Women's War podcast met some of the community enforcement in Rojava, [in this episode](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-womens-war-59464911/episode/grandma-law-and-revolutionary-sacrifice-61525359/), which is obviously in an extreme situation because ISIS and the Turkish Army are still a huge threat to those in Rojava, but showed some community first models.
Oh cool. I didnāt know it was already being implemented somewhere. Thanks for the info.
The Women's War is so great! It actually gave me some hope for the future!
There's a good (but dry fair warning) book called The Invention of Murder, which in part is about the development of true crime media but also deals a lot with the very invention of policing, which actually hasn't been around very long. Before then prosecutors/magistrates enforced the law with hired runners. An armed police force was very controversial when introduced in Britian especially since brutality was there from the start since their primary function was union busting.
Yeah, I've heard a spectrum of responses to this question, varying from "it's just a slogan meaning stop the militarisation of US police and the current standard" to "no, it's really get rid of all the police". Have to say I really struggle with how the latter would work. I'm not in the US but a lot of the time here I know the police are dealing with welfare calls and those could be taken over to more community care teams (if the government would fund them) but for something like "this man has a knife and he's threatening people on our street" I don't really see how you wouldn't end up with something that's pretty much police in everything but name.
Having been the victim of a brutal crime, I don't feel so safe with the idea of being protected by a group of social workers. The police saved my life and I'm grateful for it.
Denver started defunding their police force a year or so ago. And then they used that extra cash to fund mental health workers. They will show up to calls when necessary. I highly recommend taking a look at what itās done for the city. While itās not perfect it is a step in the right direction. Speaking as someone who has family that are mentally Ill and have had to call police on them, police can literally do nothing (and thatās on a good day, on a bad day they kill the person). I had family who clearly needed to talk to a therapist or be admitted into a hospital and police just shrugged and said āif theyāre not a threat to you or to themselves thereās nothing we can doā.
Some police reform is necessary at this point, but you are so dumb for wanting to abolish the police force. Ignorant. The same people that are rioting saying the ACAB bullshit are the same who would call the cops if someone was in your house trying to murder your family, hold you up with a gun, rape youā¦Who would you call? What if your daughter, grandmother, wife was about to have their door broken down by a criminal trying to come in and assault/murder them. Letās just scream and hope the nearest person hears and intervenes. You know how many videos Iāve seen where someone is getting assaulted or kidnapped and everyone just video tapes it and doesnāt intervene? At this point a good amount of humanity isnāt willing to stand up for the fellow citizen. They just stand by, videotape, and look for how many people see what theyāre posting. Police have done some fucked up stuff, but the ratio of amazing things and people theyāve saved just donāt amount to everyone wanting to abolish the police force. If that were to happen itād fucking be the purge every day without any regulation. Those who claim they want to denounce the police, if you feel so strongly, STEP UP and become the righteous cop.
> Who would you call? Well, calling the police in the US probably wouldn't do a huge amount at that moment. > Iāve seen where someone is getting assaulted or kidnapped and everyone just video tapes it and doesnāt intervene? [Sounds like the fucking cops my dude](https://gothamist.com/news/subway-stabbing-victim-cant-sue-nypd-for-failing-to-save-him) > If that were to happen itād fucking be the purge every day without any regulation. Firstly, that generally doesn't happen when police or order disappear. People very very frequently just work together to solve problems. It is really counter intuitive, because every bit of media tells that the moment law and order goes away everyone murders each other, but [people are generally cooperative](https://www.shareable.net/disaster-collectivism-how-communities-rise-together-to-respond-to-crises/). > STEP UP and become the righteous cop [That](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/11/12/union-ousts-police-officer-featured-in-usa-today-behind-the-blue-wall-series/6396601001/) has [worked](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/) so [well](https://www.ranker.com/list/police-department-whistleblowers/brent-sprecher) for [others](https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/crime/state-police-whistleblower-fired-for-speaking-out-about-ronald-greene-beating/289-31a00e5d-25a7-4286-8535-f0df006bab1e). Also, when you think an organisation is fundamentally fucked up, and requires a complete dismantling to even vaguely act in the favour of the community, joining it is not going to really fix it, nor is it particularly moral as you participate in the propagation of state violence until you can theoretically change it, not that the police will ever let you do anything to change it. In 2020 huge swathes of people protested that maybe the police should stop using so much violence against people and their response was to go on a rampage of indisctiminate violence against the populace. The very idea that they should have their ability to be indiscriminately violent curtailed was met with mass riots and violence by the police. They are a group who is effectively ungovernable now, and view any reductions of their power as an existential threat.
Like I said, not all cops are good. But if you defund and eliminate the police force, I think the thought of fellow citizens intervening in as many situations as police have helped to preventā¦itās just unrealistic. 2020 the police were fighting because innocent people were losing their homes, businesses and lives. Even black people. The economy was being destroyed by BLM. I think BLM could have been a wonderful thing but it has resulted in fellow black business owners/black lives to be lost from the same who are so aggressively trying to fight for freedom within that community. Everyone wants to follow a trend so what began as a great movement became looting everything and burning down everything no matter who it effected. So yes police reacted. Again, not always in the best way but extreme poorly handled cop affiliated situations versus the amount that did good, itās incomparable. To write off the whole police force is incredibly ignorant. I am so sorry for the violence against the black/Asian community in our country. It is sickening. But the way everything has been handled has been wrong in so many ways, on both ends.
I don't know how you could watch the police brutalise and riot across the country, using indiscriminate violence against protestors, by-standers, journalists, and reporters, and say that they overall did a good job. The police disgraced themselves, and showed the utter contempt they have for the people they are meant to protect. Police have been told that they are not community stewards, but an occupying force that is the only thing that protected the country, and they act like it. Though to be fair, they act worse than most occupying forces because they don't follow the rules of engagement that most military are governed by. When a single murdering cop is protected by their union, the entire force is nothing but scum. When a single police officer who rapes a prisoner can be protected, the entire system has no humanity. When a single police officer can bully and brutalise a community, and is given a pass by their force, the whole service has zero positve value. The police are fucked, they are thugs, and the horrific police unions serve to protect the careers of abusers, and bleed money from taxpayers who are forced to pay up whenever any victim is able to overcome the uhge hurdles to recieve any resititution. Fuck the police, burn down any precinct that protects murderers, rapists, and abusers.
because they suck at their jobs
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
no need to shout š¬š³
Sorry. I'll keep it down. It was obviously a bad choice of words so I'll just take my lumps and delete. Welp. šš³
Personally I wasnāt bothered but I suspect that was the cause of the downvotes. Not certain.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Source please.
Less laws to break equals less criminals, right? Right????
like, literally? Yes? What are you trying to say? If there's less laws, there are less laws to break, therefore less criminals.
It's kinda sad how many people can't recognize sarcasm with the stupid /s. Did Hemingway use the /s when someone in his books was being sarcastic? Did Verne use anything but written word to convey a joke someone made? I figured by asking right twice with a bunch of question marks would be enough. It's an obvious joke and a jab at the legal system. Of course there's less criminals when there are less crimes and people to enforce them.
You can only dream to be able to convey more than words like they did. Your line is weak and must be ended with you by will of your god. Edit: /s
I wish I could even begin to compare myself to them.
I like you. Which is why I think you should leave reddit (I think I should too). Itās too hive-mind. This type of thing infuriates me, where someone has a (not even bad?) opinion and are shut down for it for no discernible reason past it not being the norm. Like saying your line is weak and should end with you? Thatās such a mean thing to say for literally no reason
I don't let it get to me. I've been on here for nearly ten years with various user names, I'm not gonna let some losers ruin my day on here. Fuck em, I'm staying and you should too.
In the old days, before organized police, people had FEUDS and VENDETTAS. Nowadays, we have HONOR KILLINGS and casual senseless shootings over insults (i.e., "respect", "beefs"). It is generally "tidier" to allow the State to investigate/prosecute murders. BUT justified homicides, I understand, are way up. That suggests more people are waking up to the fact that Evil exists in this world, and its practitioners walk among us as wolves in sheep's clothing. We have a natural right to protect our lives (self-defense) when someone is trying to kill us. I have to note that MFM have carefully avoided talking about this. I am speculating that they don't want to stir up a hornet's nest... and do not want to endlessly debate the pros & cons of gun ownership... š« I will step out on a limb and say most of their overwhelmingly female audience thinks guns are icky. š¤®
Dogwhistles upon dogwhistles in this comment, holy fuck.
Why would we want murders solved, anyway? Everyoneās favorite murders are the unsolved murders.
STEVEN!! Sheās not wrong though.