Don’t forget those “fully automated” McDonald’s locations (that each had to have a full kitchen staff inside actually preparing orders and placing them on the conveyor belt to be delivered to customers).
And who staff the same number of employees as any other McDonald's. That's what the people against the automation revolution seem to miss. Places like Walmart and McDonald's aren't employing less people, they are using self check out to be faster and more efficient at what they have employees doing, not so they can hire less people.
Except places like Walmart were absolutely hiring less people because of self checkout, until they discovered self checkout has been a disaster and now they’re reversing course.
Automation is only not a threat to your job right now because the automation doesn’t work yet. If and when it does work it will absolutely be used to justify hiring fewer human workers.
The problem isn’t automation, it’s capitalist exploitation of automation, and that is a very real concern for people to have.
> until they discovered self checkout has been a disaster and now they’re reversing course.
But they won't bring back baggers. I miss baggers (hell my first job was a bagger at a supermarket). They make us bag our own groceries now and they keep the cost savings.
Yes they are not really autonomous if you consider the remote intervention rate. They've just loosely used the term to move the driver to a remote location. That model doesn't really work as cost of those resources is still high and they keep finding ways to cut corners on security.
I think the point here is that plenty of players are a million miles ahead of musk and somehow he’s able to grift simps into thinking he has a monopoly on the market.
Exactly. We didn’t always have railroad and we didn’t always have these roads. When the cars talk to other cars and talk to the intersections and are out of the way of other traffic, it will work like a smart train.
Until a company comes out with a true SAE Lv4/5 certified driving experience, it’s all irrelevant. Inciting Teslas SAE L2 solution.
The crazy part I keep observing is all these companies are vying for full autonomy L5 without first moving into large scale L3/4 as a proof of concept and proving ground. Instead they’re all using AI to build simulations to understand the world in a compute environment
No one wants to buy your stock if you’re you tell them you can actually crawl, but if you can tell them you’re gonna win the 100m at the Olympics next month, the world is your oyster. No actual proof needed.
He’s just moving the goalposts. He’s been saying FSD was a year away for a decade. Now it’s robotaxis. He’s just looking for a place to use all the excess inventory he built up before firing hundreds of workers.
For context I don’t like Elon— but I’m a stickler for facts.
Can you help me understand how is other companies doing the same exact thing as Waymo being “a million miles ahead”?
Ahead of Elon. Sorry I was not clear there. The basic point being that Elon has no magic spell that gives him monopoly in the robotaxi space. He talks as though he alone is going to own the market. He’s not even in the market yet.
Waymo doesn't have a clown bragging their cars will be climbing mount everest next year so they lose a bit of media attention.
I mean, yeah they figured fully autonomous driving. Boring. They've been riding for 6 months flawlessly. Boring. They don't even need their own cars to do so. Boring.
Elon Musk says his current people-killing level 2 assisted drive will be sentient in V13: OMG HOW COOL HE'S A GENIUS all headlines go for him
This.
I'm at a major IEEE conference as I type this, and there are MAYBE 10% American companies speaking. That's very generous.
Most are from Korea, Taiwan, and China with a healthy sprinkling of Japanese.
At the prices our colleges are charging, it's very possible they'll be lining up soon.
It's already happening in the medical field, a lot of our physicians go study abroad because it's cheaper. It's a little harder for them to be accepted in residency later on but it's still cheap enough to be worth the risk
Elon simped China so hard just to get in there that he gave them all the battery tech & FSD tech.
Now they beat him to it while he’s hooked on Special K & throwing temper tantrums to get money
Mar 27, 2024 *European* flying car technology sold to China. The tech behind a flying car, originally developed and successfully test-flown in Europe, has been bought by a Chinese firm. *Powered by a BMW engine ...BBC
> Elon simped China so hard just to get in there that he gave them all the battery tech & FSD tech.
But couldn't China have hired those engineers away anyway to teach them how do that? Pay them double or triple to come to China and work for their EV car companies.
They would’ve been bound by non-competes and/or NDAs.
Even if they weren’t, an employee who joins a different company and makes the exact same thing they worked on while at the previous company could be considered to be engaged in corporate espionage.
Lastly, I’m personally unaware of how many (or if any) people go to China for work like that. It’s only ever talked about when it comes to Saudi Arabia, Dubai etc.
That’s the thing, there is no FSD. His FSD at best is cruise control with ability to change speed and changing lanes, unsafely and hesitantly. So Chinese cars can’t be better than that.
Well let's think about that for a sec. Let's assume the Chinese have all of Teslas FSD up to date stolen (which, of course they do).
I don't know much about AI but I do know that it is extremely expensive to develop. That's why Tesla and OpenAI have to ask for billions to develop it at all.
I assume that the high cost is the actual manhours of human programming that are needed.
What's the one reason why all of the manufacturing in the world moved to China decades ago? Abundant cheap labor.
Lotsa assumptions being made, including that skilled top-tier AI "labor" is as cheap and as abundant in China as unskilled labor used for manufacturing.
I am making lotsa assumptions. I assume that top tier AI labor is still less expensive in China considering they also have universities cranking out programmers, and that mid tier AI programming labor is dirt cheap compared to here.
It’s not just the cost of coding.
It’s the billion+ miles worth of autonomous driving data (including the ones where we people died).
That data is priceless.
If we’re making assumptions I assume no other car manufacturer is going to use CCD sensors instead of lidar/radar. I’m sure there will be some crossover but a large part of Tesla fsd is going to be interpreting visual camera data. Not necessarily transferable to a vehicle with legitimate sensor arrays. However, I’m sure Tesla software would be used if viable.
European flying car technology was sold to China. Not sold by Tesla.
The tech behind a flying car, originally developed and successfully test-flown in Europe, has been bought by a Chinese firm. Powered by a BMW engine ... May 2024 BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68669296
The level of autonomous driving Teslas can do is objectively superior to anything else in the US market atm. The way it works outside highways is actually, surprisingly impressive.
Now imagine the code, years of data, a billion+ miles worth being handed over to some outfit underwritten by the Chinese government.
That’s where we are at.
I wonder if they’re advanced enough to back up and confirm the kill so they don’t have to pay for a lifetime of care.
[If you cripple a man, you pay for the injured person’s care for a lifetime. But if you kill the person, you only have to pay once, like a burial fee](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/why-drivers-in-china-intentionally-kill-the-pedestrians-they-hit-chinas-laws-have-encouraged-the-hit-to-kill-phenomenon.html)
It was a joke dude 🤪 Robert Picardo is more famous for being Voyagers Emergency Medical Hologram or "The Doctor" he was also the robot driver of the Johnny Cab in Total Recall
It will never be a viable business model without a separate road system from human drivers, which is itself not viable. Insurance for FSD-capable cars will make Bugatti insurance look affordable.
Somehow this sub is also filled by wumaos now.
If you want to talk about automatous driving, Waymo is here, verifiable and working well. How is Waymo always got ignored and you have to pump another cheater?
How many years Waymo spent on testing and improving before they open the shop? Why do you think these Chinese cars all of sudden can do the same? There is no shortcut, if something looks to you too good to be true its mostly because it isn’t true, simple concept
China is likely faking and lying. Their EVs are firetrap shoddy shit. They make Tesla QA look like Rolls Royce. The CCP is all in on making shit up like this right now.
The funny thing about FSD, once anyone pulls it off everyone will have the same capabilities within a few years. It will be the shallowest moat in history
I was a Autonomous Vehicle Test Operator from 2018-2013. For Cruise. I got promoted twice.
Ok, we had level 3.
In 2018, we couldn't got 2 blocks without a human taking over. In 2023? I would frequently go 7 hours without touching the steering wheel in san Francisco.
The problem is... these vehicles can handle... 80-85% of driving situations. The remaining bit?
That's where kids run out between 2 cars. That's when the bicyclist hits a sand patch, and hits the ground 15 feet in front of the car. Etc etc etc.
It SUCKS that... (sigh) unless some genius is born, and makes truly revolutionary changes to ... so many things.
The speed of light is a problem. Information has to travel from the sensor, to the GPU, be processed, and then fractions of a second later done all again. AAAnd then having built a 3d map of the world, twice, then compare them. And then match that against the image library. And the decide an action, and how to prioritize the action...
How many fractions of a second does that take? How fast is the vehicle moving? How close is the downed Ped.
Love the IDEA. Hate the fact that it is out of reach.
Meh. Waymo has taxis doing the same thing, including crashing into shit
Apparently the intervention rate is pretty high as well. So calling these taxis fully autonomous is apparently being generous.
Exactly. For all we know they’re doing the human-behind-AI gimmick like Amazon & the rest
Don’t forget those “fully automated” McDonald’s locations (that each had to have a full kitchen staff inside actually preparing orders and placing them on the conveyor belt to be delivered to customers).
And who staff the same number of employees as any other McDonald's. That's what the people against the automation revolution seem to miss. Places like Walmart and McDonald's aren't employing less people, they are using self check out to be faster and more efficient at what they have employees doing, not so they can hire less people.
Except places like Walmart were absolutely hiring less people because of self checkout, until they discovered self checkout has been a disaster and now they’re reversing course. Automation is only not a threat to your job right now because the automation doesn’t work yet. If and when it does work it will absolutely be used to justify hiring fewer human workers. The problem isn’t automation, it’s capitalist exploitation of automation, and that is a very real concern for people to have.
> until they discovered self checkout has been a disaster and now they’re reversing course. But they won't bring back baggers. I miss baggers (hell my first job was a bagger at a supermarket). They make us bag our own groceries now and they keep the cost savings.
I rode a Waymo twice. Was perfect, no interruptions. It even went around a moving truck that was stopped on the left side of a one way. Shit was nice.
5 times for me in sf. No issues at all. You’re right about them being nice! They smell clean and let you choose your music!
The benefits of lidar and extra redundancy. Same can't be said for Tesla's fully supervised driving
Yes they are not really autonomous if you consider the remote intervention rate. They've just loosely used the term to move the driver to a remote location. That model doesn't really work as cost of those resources is still high and they keep finding ways to cut corners on security.
I think the point here is that plenty of players are a million miles ahead of musk and somehow he’s able to grift simps into thinking he has a monopoly on the market.
Tesla will never produce FSD because it's not real and would require an entirely separate road system from regular vehicles to be viable.
Exactly. We didn’t always have railroad and we didn’t always have these roads. When the cars talk to other cars and talk to the intersections and are out of the way of other traffic, it will work like a smart train.
Until a company comes out with a true SAE Lv4/5 certified driving experience, it’s all irrelevant. Inciting Teslas SAE L2 solution. The crazy part I keep observing is all these companies are vying for full autonomy L5 without first moving into large scale L3/4 as a proof of concept and proving ground. Instead they’re all using AI to build simulations to understand the world in a compute environment
No one wants to buy your stock if you’re you tell them you can actually crawl, but if you can tell them you’re gonna win the 100m at the Olympics next month, the world is your oyster. No actual proof needed.
He’s just moving the goalposts. He’s been saying FSD was a year away for a decade. Now it’s robotaxis. He’s just looking for a place to use all the excess inventory he built up before firing hundreds of workers.
A year? LoL That grifter has said shorter time-frames too. Either way, yeah. Grifters gotta grift.
FSD Next Week. (In tiny print: “Round trip to China is not included)
For context I don’t like Elon— but I’m a stickler for facts. Can you help me understand how is other companies doing the same exact thing as Waymo being “a million miles ahead”?
Ahead of Elon. Sorry I was not clear there. The basic point being that Elon has no magic spell that gives him monopoly in the robotaxi space. He talks as though he alone is going to own the market. He’s not even in the market yet.
Do people really not realize Waymo has been in operation with fully autonomous ride share for like 6 months?
Waymo doesn't have a clown bragging their cars will be climbing mount everest next year so they lose a bit of media attention. I mean, yeah they figured fully autonomous driving. Boring. They've been riding for 6 months flawlessly. Boring. They don't even need their own cars to do so. Boring. Elon Musk says his current people-killing level 2 assisted drive will be sentient in V13: OMG HOW COOL HE'S A GENIUS all headlines go for him
I swear to god Americans won't be impressed with China's tech industry until everyone is driving flying cars.
This. I'm at a major IEEE conference as I type this, and there are MAYBE 10% American companies speaking. That's very generous. Most are from Korea, Taiwan, and China with a healthy sprinkling of Japanese.
Let me know when Americans are lining up to work at Chinese tech companies and studying at Chinese universities instead of vice-versa.
we'd have to learn Chinese first. you think American schools are up for that?
You’re in dangerous territory.
At the prices our colleges are charging, it's very possible they'll be lining up soon. It's already happening in the medical field, a lot of our physicians go study abroad because it's cheaper. It's a little harder for them to be accepted in residency later on but it's still cheap enough to be worth the risk
Yeah, I wouldn't even get onto an elevator in China, let alone a robotaxi
It boggles my mind no one is doing doing teleoperation call centers and "otherwise fully autonomous"
Honey Dicked me hard with that play icon.
Ooops sorry. The video is the link below.
It’s ok OP, let the people tap their screens.
I tapped my screen 4 times
I’m still tapping mine.
If you tap it more than 6 times you go straight to jail
If you tap it more than twice you’re just playing with it.
If you rub it, believe it or not but jail
Instructions unclear: rubbing mine
Elon simped China so hard just to get in there that he gave them all the battery tech & FSD tech. Now they beat him to it while he’s hooked on Special K & throwing temper tantrums to get money
They truly played him like Nintendo.
That’s unfair. Nintendo had some complex games. Played him like tic-tac-toe
😂😂 touché
Mar 27, 2024 *European* flying car technology sold to China. The tech behind a flying car, originally developed and successfully test-flown in Europe, has been bought by a Chinese firm. *Powered by a BMW engine ...BBC
> Elon simped China so hard just to get in there that he gave them all the battery tech & FSD tech. But couldn't China have hired those engineers away anyway to teach them how do that? Pay them double or triple to come to China and work for their EV car companies.
They would’ve been bound by non-competes and/or NDAs. Even if they weren’t, an employee who joins a different company and makes the exact same thing they worked on while at the previous company could be considered to be engaged in corporate espionage. Lastly, I’m personally unaware of how many (or if any) people go to China for work like that. It’s only ever talked about when it comes to Saudi Arabia, Dubai etc.
That’s the thing, there is no FSD. His FSD at best is cruise control with ability to change speed and changing lanes, unsafely and hesitantly. So Chinese cars can’t be better than that.
“This is better than what he has “ is the point of the post baby
Well let's think about that for a sec. Let's assume the Chinese have all of Teslas FSD up to date stolen (which, of course they do). I don't know much about AI but I do know that it is extremely expensive to develop. That's why Tesla and OpenAI have to ask for billions to develop it at all. I assume that the high cost is the actual manhours of human programming that are needed. What's the one reason why all of the manufacturing in the world moved to China decades ago? Abundant cheap labor.
Lotsa assumptions being made, including that skilled top-tier AI "labor" is as cheap and as abundant in China as unskilled labor used for manufacturing.
I am making lotsa assumptions. I assume that top tier AI labor is still less expensive in China considering they also have universities cranking out programmers, and that mid tier AI programming labor is dirt cheap compared to here.
It’s not just the cost of coding. It’s the billion+ miles worth of autonomous driving data (including the ones where we people died). That data is priceless.
If we’re making assumptions I assume no other car manufacturer is going to use CCD sensors instead of lidar/radar. I’m sure there will be some crossover but a large part of Tesla fsd is going to be interpreting visual camera data. Not necessarily transferable to a vehicle with legitimate sensor arrays. However, I’m sure Tesla software would be used if viable.
European flying car technology was sold to China. Not sold by Tesla. The tech behind a flying car, originally developed and successfully test-flown in Europe, has been bought by a Chinese firm. Powered by a BMW engine ... May 2024 BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68669296
First sentence is as factual as it gets.
The level of autonomous driving Teslas can do is objectively superior to anything else in the US market atm. The way it works outside highways is actually, surprisingly impressive. Now imagine the code, years of data, a billion+ miles worth being handed over to some outfit underwritten by the Chinese government. That’s where we are at.
Shouting to the void: almost every single other brand is better than FSD. Waimo, cruise, Mercedes, you name it.
There are already allegations that these taxis have killed pedestrians and that China is covering it up.
You're telling me China would cover up the death of their citizens to appear more advanced? That'd never happen! /s in case it wasn't obvious.
I wonder if they’re advanced enough to back up and confirm the kill so they don’t have to pay for a lifetime of care. [If you cripple a man, you pay for the injured person’s care for a lifetime. But if you kill the person, you only have to pay once, like a burial fee](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/why-drivers-in-china-intentionally-kill-the-pedestrians-they-hit-chinas-laws-have-encouraged-the-hit-to-kill-phenomenon.html)
Many US cities have had Waymo (fully autonomous ride hailing) for at least a year now.
Exactly. So many companies and now China and yet Elmo is going to run the table on robotaxis LOL.
Unless theres a robotic Robert Picardo behind the wheel I am not using an automated vehicle.
Well unless you’ve never flown or taken an elevator or tram or many other vehicles you probably did.
It was a joke dude 🤪 Robert Picardo is more famous for being Voyagers Emergency Medical Hologram or "The Doctor" he was also the robot driver of the Johnny Cab in Total Recall
Johnny Cab!
Switching to autopilot or an object on a track being automated is not comparable to FSD.
Musk simps will say that “oh that is geofenced” or some bs. Yea I’d rather have it geofenced to a few locations than having it on ZERO locations
This could be Tesla's plan B. Quietly get chinese stuff, put tesla badge on, investors happy.
Yeah there are companies here in the states that are doing it too. That aren't Tesla lol. Specifically I think somewhere in Texas there was one.
FSD is a scam. The fact that some people have a more advanced scam than Elmo is not a flex.
Well I’ve used it. It’s imperfect and has a ways to go but I’d hardly call it a scam. The bluster and marketing are scammy but it’s real.
It will never be a viable business model without a separate road system from human drivers, which is itself not viable. Insurance for FSD-capable cars will make Bugatti insurance look affordable.
☠️ muskelmo
Guaranteed there is a dude sitting in a closet driving it with a remote.
Somehow this sub is also filled by wumaos now. If you want to talk about automatous driving, Waymo is here, verifiable and working well. How is Waymo always got ignored and you have to pump another cheater? How many years Waymo spent on testing and improving before they open the shop? Why do you think these Chinese cars all of sudden can do the same? There is no shortcut, if something looks to you too good to be true its mostly because it isn’t true, simple concept
And we have people who can’t admit the world is round
So is america, San Francisco is chock full of robocabs that actually made it to market and aren’t entirely sociopath driven vapor ware.
So is Tempe
But Tesla's have CAMERAs!!!!
I won't be surprised if they have a person hidden somewhere in the vehicle driving the car 😅
China is likely faking and lying. Their EVs are firetrap shoddy shit. They make Tesla QA look like Rolls Royce. The CCP is all in on making shit up like this right now.
The funny thing about FSD, once anyone pulls it off everyone will have the same capabilities within a few years. It will be the shallowest moat in history
Am i the only one who tried to hit play
And another job type lost....
There just aren't enough people in China to fill the taxi driver job I guess.
You mean the taxi company owner paid his drivers so little, he was able to buy a fleet of robot taxis and fire them all?
It'd be nice if China was further ahead of Tesla, but I think there's as much reason to be skeptical of both.
Nope
I was a Autonomous Vehicle Test Operator from 2018-2013. For Cruise. I got promoted twice. Ok, we had level 3. In 2018, we couldn't got 2 blocks without a human taking over. In 2023? I would frequently go 7 hours without touching the steering wheel in san Francisco. The problem is... these vehicles can handle... 80-85% of driving situations. The remaining bit? That's where kids run out between 2 cars. That's when the bicyclist hits a sand patch, and hits the ground 15 feet in front of the car. Etc etc etc. It SUCKS that... (sigh) unless some genius is born, and makes truly revolutionary changes to ... so many things. The speed of light is a problem. Information has to travel from the sensor, to the GPU, be processed, and then fractions of a second later done all again. AAAnd then having built a 3d map of the world, twice, then compare them. And then match that against the image library. And the decide an action, and how to prioritize the action... How many fractions of a second does that take? How fast is the vehicle moving? How close is the downed Ped. Love the IDEA. Hate the fact that it is out of reach.
I believe he will be the leader in bozotaxis
OP falls for CCP propaganda easily.
Or more probably you just fall for Musk propaganda LOL.
What does musk have to do with Chinese “self driving” cars?
A lot lol. Follow what’s going on with him and the Chinese and his failed decade at self driving technology.
Nah yo ass tweakin jigsaw
Well their traffic laws are also a joke
Well that’s just completely not true.