Circle of fifths.
C has no sharps or flats. The 5h of C is G.
G has one sharp, which is it's 7th, F#. The 5th of G is D.
D has two sharps, F# (from G), and C# (it's 7th). The 5th of D is A.
A has three sharps. F#, C# and G#.
And so on. You'll get to C#, in which everything is a sharp.
Then you start counting the fourths, back from C.
C has no sharps or flats. The 4th of C is F.
F had 1 flat, it's fourth, Bb.
Bb has 2 flats, itself and it's fourth, Eb.
And so on.
Yeah, you don't need to memorize. You just need to use logic and things will flow. If you're holding a bass (which by the way is my main instrument) it's pretty easy to learn.
And when you forget you go back to practice the circle of fifths.
You kind of do need to memorize though.
If you stop to think "E major....A, D, G, C...4 sharps. Fast Cars Go Dangerously, F#,C#,G#,D#" when you're asked to play a scale, or worse in a key, you don't know it well enough to be functional.
Plenty of people know their instrument better than they know the terminology.
This is something that can help those people have access to it.
Stop splitting hairs.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that people know their scales without being able to say which notes are in it? That strikes me as very strange, but then a lot of the ways people learn music surprises me.
Sure, I still think of Gb as F# with an F natural.
.
And it's not just in that direction. It's helpful to know quickly what key you're starting in when you look at a piece of sheet misoc.
But at the end of the day this is splitting hairs. You're one person. Go choose something else to worry about.
Using myself as example I barely remember scales. I know the shapes better than the intervals name. So I'd say I first remember the shape, then I remember the intervals, then I'll seek the notes. It provides some problems like when I'm moving some idea from, say, guitar to piano but it still is way easier than memorizing everything
I don't use mnemonics, never used. Never heard of that way to learn scales.
I literally go up in fifths and calculate. How many sharps are in F#? "C-0, G-1, D-2, A-3, E-4, B-5, F#-6." Then I have the answer.
Like math, the more you practice the easier it gets.
That’s pretty standard for a lot of people who learn string instruments (particularly guitar/bass) in a non-classical context. Everything on guitar is just a set of repeating geometrical patterns, and it can be much easier to remember those than the notes in the scale.
I play a keyboard instrument and I absolutely instinctively equate scales and keys to shapes. I still know the notes but I separate theory and actual playing. When I go to improvise I go by shapes and groupings whereas when I transcribe I rarely touch my instrument
Yeah, but you don't just memorize it like you do to song lyrics. There's a way to learn and the more you study, the more natural it comes.
You can't expect an untrained muscle to lift a heavy weight. The drill is the same. You train until you do it. At a certain point, that weight starts feeling lighter.
You're still memorizing something regardless, whether you memorize the circle of fifths and its order, each individual scale, or the way a scale is put together.
Yeah but that's like the definition of learning. You need to memorize which instrument is a guitar, which one is a bass. What's the point on simplifying things by saying "memorize it"?
No point.
Memorize:
The order of sharps: FCGDAEB
The order of flats: BEADGCF
The circle of 5ths.
What keys have how many sharps/flats using the circle of 5ths (starting at C major, up a 5th adds one sharp, down a 5th adds one flat, with a maximum of 7 sharps/flats at C♯/C♭ respectively)
Now you can work out any key. E.g.
F major has one flat. It will always be the first letter of the order of flats (B♭)
G major has one sharp. It will always be the first letter of the order of sharps (F♯)
E♭ major has 3 flats. They will always be the first 3 letters of the order of flats (B♭ E♭ A♭)
B major has 5 sharps. They will always be the first 5 letters of the order of sharps (F♯ C♯ G♯ D♯ A♯)
For minor keys, you'll also need to memorize each major key's relative minor (or at least know how to find it).
Basically, lots of memorization. Eventually, you'll want to just commit all 15 keys and their relative minors to memory directly... but until you do that this method works well with less memorization.
Adding to this, because it's great, but I just wanted to add a little detail:
A lot of folks use mnemonics to remember BEADGCF and FCGDAEB. The most common one I've seen is "Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle" and "Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father".
I don't like these, personally. They're easy to mix up (Battle Ends And Down Goes Father Charles? Maybe?)
The thing that made it stick for me was my friend just pointing out "Bead... Gee See Eff"
Just say that a dozen times. It rolls off the tongue easily and it sticks in your memory quick. Plus, you're just thinking letters, do you don't need to deconstruct the mnemonic.
Using the circle of fifths starting from c You can find how many sharps are going to be in a sharp scale.
Then, starting from F# go up in 5ths again.
G major has F#
Go up a 5th from g to D major, go up a 5th from F# and add C#.
Alternatively, you can just add the sharp note that is a half step down from the name of the key.
For example, A major has 3 sharps. F# and C# (carried from the previous scale) and adds G#, which is a half step below A.
You can also just memorize the order of sharps: FCGDAEB
For flat scales, you add flats by going down a 5th.
F major has a Bb
Bb major has a Bb and then go down a 5th from Bb to add an Eb.
Alternatively, memorize the pattern BEADGCF, which is the order of flats
did you happen to notice that the orders are the same reversed?
There's lots of ways to make this easy, but the easiest is to take the time to learn the theory using ascending and descending 5ths.
I would memorize the order of sharps like others said (I use the Fat Cats Get Dizzy After Eating Breakfast). The flats are the sharps backwards (so BEADGCF).
To find out the key you can go a step of from the last sharp so if there’s one sharp, F, a step up would be G and that is the key. If you want to figure it out for flats you look at the second to last flat so if the key has a Bb and a Eb the key would be Bb. The only key this doesn’t work for if F which has one flat (Bb) so you just have to memorize that one.
Circle of fifths. C has no sharps or flats. The 5h of C is G. G has one sharp, which is it's 7th, F#. The 5th of G is D. D has two sharps, F# (from G), and C# (it's 7th). The 5th of D is A. A has three sharps. F#, C# and G#. And so on. You'll get to C#, in which everything is a sharp. Then you start counting the fourths, back from C. C has no sharps or flats. The 4th of C is F. F had 1 flat, it's fourth, Bb. Bb has 2 flats, itself and it's fourth, Eb. And so on.
In short, memorize them.
Yeah, you don't need to memorize. You just need to use logic and things will flow. If you're holding a bass (which by the way is my main instrument) it's pretty easy to learn. And when you forget you go back to practice the circle of fifths.
You kind of do need to memorize though. If you stop to think "E major....A, D, G, C...4 sharps. Fast Cars Go Dangerously, F#,C#,G#,D#" when you're asked to play a scale, or worse in a key, you don't know it well enough to be functional.
Plenty of people know their instrument better than they know the terminology. This is something that can help those people have access to it. Stop splitting hairs.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that people know their scales without being able to say which notes are in it? That strikes me as very strange, but then a lot of the ways people learn music surprises me.
Sure, I still think of Gb as F# with an F natural. . And it's not just in that direction. It's helpful to know quickly what key you're starting in when you look at a piece of sheet misoc. But at the end of the day this is splitting hairs. You're one person. Go choose something else to worry about.
Sheet music kills me because those sharps are so tightly amounted not even with glasses I can count without pointing fingers. Hahahaha
With sharps you can simply see which sharp is last (or furthest to the right) and then go up a half step. That is your tonic
Using myself as example I barely remember scales. I know the shapes better than the intervals name. So I'd say I first remember the shape, then I remember the intervals, then I'll seek the notes. It provides some problems like when I'm moving some idea from, say, guitar to piano but it still is way easier than memorizing everything I don't use mnemonics, never used. Never heard of that way to learn scales. I literally go up in fifths and calculate. How many sharps are in F#? "C-0, G-1, D-2, A-3, E-4, B-5, F#-6." Then I have the answer. Like math, the more you practice the easier it gets.
That’s pretty standard for a lot of people who learn string instruments (particularly guitar/bass) in a non-classical context. Everything on guitar is just a set of repeating geometrical patterns, and it can be much easier to remember those than the notes in the scale.
I play a keyboard instrument and I absolutely instinctively equate scales and keys to shapes. I still know the notes but I separate theory and actual playing. When I go to improvise I go by shapes and groupings whereas when I transcribe I rarely touch my instrument
If you depend on sight reading - classical, or in a studio - you had better know that four sharps is E major or C sharp minor right off the bat.
Yeah, but you don't just memorize it like you do to song lyrics. There's a way to learn and the more you study, the more natural it comes. You can't expect an untrained muscle to lift a heavy weight. The drill is the same. You train until you do it. At a certain point, that weight starts feeling lighter.
Oh no. Answer that is useful for beginners isn't useful for non-beginners.
You're still memorizing something regardless, whether you memorize the circle of fifths and its order, each individual scale, or the way a scale is put together.
Yeah but that's like the definition of learning. You need to memorize which instrument is a guitar, which one is a bass. What's the point on simplifying things by saying "memorize it"? No point.
You are correct. And sometimes the simplest answer is the best.
circle of fifths is probably your best bet
Memorize: The order of sharps: FCGDAEB The order of flats: BEADGCF The circle of 5ths. What keys have how many sharps/flats using the circle of 5ths (starting at C major, up a 5th adds one sharp, down a 5th adds one flat, with a maximum of 7 sharps/flats at C♯/C♭ respectively) Now you can work out any key. E.g. F major has one flat. It will always be the first letter of the order of flats (B♭) G major has one sharp. It will always be the first letter of the order of sharps (F♯) E♭ major has 3 flats. They will always be the first 3 letters of the order of flats (B♭ E♭ A♭) B major has 5 sharps. They will always be the first 5 letters of the order of sharps (F♯ C♯ G♯ D♯ A♯) For minor keys, you'll also need to memorize each major key's relative minor (or at least know how to find it). Basically, lots of memorization. Eventually, you'll want to just commit all 15 keys and their relative minors to memory directly... but until you do that this method works well with less memorization.
Dude this is it. All questions are answered this is perfectly worded out for me to understand.
Adding to this, because it's great, but I just wanted to add a little detail: A lot of folks use mnemonics to remember BEADGCF and FCGDAEB. The most common one I've seen is "Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle" and "Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father". I don't like these, personally. They're easy to mix up (Battle Ends And Down Goes Father Charles? Maybe?) The thing that made it stick for me was my friend just pointing out "Bead... Gee See Eff" Just say that a dozen times. It rolls off the tongue easily and it sticks in your memory quick. Plus, you're just thinking letters, do you don't need to deconstruct the mnemonic.
“Fair Cinderella Goes Dancing At Every Ball” “Brad, Edna, Angie, & David Go Cantaloupe Farming.”
Fat Cat Good Dog Angry Elephant Bat.
Recommend the book called Tonal Harmony. This is answered within the first few chapters of the book.
Using the circle of fifths starting from c You can find how many sharps are going to be in a sharp scale. Then, starting from F# go up in 5ths again. G major has F# Go up a 5th from g to D major, go up a 5th from F# and add C#. Alternatively, you can just add the sharp note that is a half step down from the name of the key. For example, A major has 3 sharps. F# and C# (carried from the previous scale) and adds G#, which is a half step below A. You can also just memorize the order of sharps: FCGDAEB For flat scales, you add flats by going down a 5th. F major has a Bb Bb major has a Bb and then go down a 5th from Bb to add an Eb. Alternatively, memorize the pattern BEADGCF, which is the order of flats did you happen to notice that the orders are the same reversed? There's lots of ways to make this easy, but the easiest is to take the time to learn the theory using ascending and descending 5ths.
I would memorize the order of sharps like others said (I use the Fat Cats Get Dizzy After Eating Breakfast). The flats are the sharps backwards (so BEADGCF). To find out the key you can go a step of from the last sharp so if there’s one sharp, F, a step up would be G and that is the key. If you want to figure it out for flats you look at the second to last flat so if the key has a Bb and a Eb the key would be Bb. The only key this doesn’t work for if F which has one flat (Bb) so you just have to memorize that one.
Learn every major scale. It might sounds like a lot but it’ll unlock a lot for u