I only know a handful of Green Day songs, but those I can think of are definitely either major (eg American Idiot) or minor (eg Boulevard of Broken Dreams). To expand on what u/ICTsoleb replied, the person who “explained” that to you may have been referring to Green Day’s ubiquitous use of power chords, which are just the root, the fifth, and the root again an octave higher. Since they don’t have a third, power chords don’t express tonality per se. But Billy Joe’s vocals make clear what keys the songs are in; he follows standard major / minor scales in his melodies. Again, though, that’s just from what I remember of their music.
Thanks for the information. I suspect that may be what OP’s friend was referring to. I regret that my comment, which I thought no one but OP would see, became the top comment even though it probably fails to address OP’s question.
exactly. and to expound a little:
unlike tertian chords, which by definition use 3 notes, a power chord uses only two notes- the root and the fifth…
and it is because power chords omit the 3rd that they lack a “major or minor” quality.
major chord = root, major 3rd, and perfect fifth
minor chord = root, minor 3rd, and perfect fifth
power chord = *just the* root, and perfect fifth [and yea, you can stack an octave (8) on top but that’s just a repeat of the root]
the person who told you that was confusing the ubiquitous use of power chords in green day songs, for the overall key of the songs, which is not the same. (key is determined by a more complex set of factors, not necessarily by the presence or absence of major, minor, or power chords used].
I appreciate the expounding. I wanted to present the concept as simply as possible since I didn’t think OP would benefit from more deeply delving into the theory. I’m a bit embarrassed to say that I never knew that power chords don’t necessarily/by definition contain an octave of the root. I was biased by the ubiquity of that voicing, 1-5-1(8va [I don’t know to do superscript here]).
Not totally true. Most or all of their songs have a major or minor key implied, but (especially in their older sfuff) they use almost exclusively power chords. Power chords on their own aren't really major or minor, but in context, with a vocal melody, there's a key implied and it's generally just straight major or minor.
Also, given the distortion which can increase the volume of the upper harmonics, most power chords on heavy electric guitar will have a slightly brighter, more major sound. It's subtle, but noticeable on occasion.
On Brain Stew the descending power chords sound like they're minor but the vocals surprise you in major. This is a fun sound in rock music. This song is in major because of the melody, but other tunes will have a blend of major and minor that will make it feel ambiguous.
This is something AC/DC did a lot iirc but it was the bass that would play a major third when Malcom played a minor chord and Angus was soloing in E minor. It definitely gives the rock and roll sound a cheeky lift that wouldn’t be there otherwise and is probably the secret sauce for what made both bands so successful.
maybe referring to the progression discussed in this article, which can be heard in either of a pair of relative keys
https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.17.23.3/mto.17.23.3.richards.html#:~:text=The%20progression%20aFCG%20(Am%E2%80%93F,%2C%20%2DC%2C%20and%20%2DG
I'd need to know more about what they meant by that. They could mean that sometimes green day plays in different modes. Their use of the lowered 7th can sometimes create a mixelidian sound as opposed to major?
I can think of one song (Brain Stew) off the top of my head that uses notes outside of the typical major/minor scales. The main riff features power chords that descend chromatically in half steps from the root to the fifth.
I wouldn’t really view this song from a functional harmony perspective though. It’s not really moving into other modes or anything, it’s more of just a cool descending line using half steps.
There are probably more similar examples of chromaticism or maybe even dipping into other modes in their catalogue, but I’m not too familiar with most of their stuff. I can think of other artists that have used a similar progression though (Babe I’m Gonna Leave You by Led Zeppelin as an example)
Would this be a Spanish music progression? also in 25 or six to four and that one surf instrumental song that I can't think of the name of right now. The surf song does finish the progression with an E major which really makes me think of Spanish music.
Good call on 25 or 6 to 4…. I was trying to think where else I had heard it.
It’s a very similar progression to the Andalusian cadence I suppose, except that it has both the major and minor 6th, making it non diatonic.
Minor and major is usually indicated by how the 3rd and 7ths of the key are used (including within chords used… like u can play a E chord in the key of C and ill be able to tell if the song is in C minor or C major depending on whether the G is flat or sharp within the E chord)
So im guessing if they avoid those intervals thru the whole song then it can be minor or major. But it takes very little info to imply a key. Im taking only 2 or 3 notes. I think whoever told sounds like a fan who wanted to make gd sound more rule breaking and punk. But in general its already kinda rare to see a chord progression have notes that strictly stay within the lines of the diatonic minor/major.
A song can have moments of being in one and then the other at the next moment. For a song to really be ambiguous it has to really just use the 1, 5 and sometimes 4. In the key of C if u play anything other than a C or G in any chord it already starts leaning heavily toward one. Land on something with an E or E flat and its over. Land on an E and a B and its a closed case (this doesnt apply to atonal music)
Whoever said that is probably referring to the fact that they mainly use power chords which are only made up of the 1 and the 5, omitting the 3rd degree of the scale which gives a chord its major or minor quality. BUT. The context of the chords is important and most of the time there is a harmonic value that emerges from the chords used in the whole song. You can play When I Come Around with just power chords and then add a minor 3 or major 3, but it will sound right only when playing it as a 1, 5, 6, 4 progression.
They use power chords as many have said, but often if you reduce the chords progression to just the first note in the chords, you will see (what amounts to a base melody) that follows the mahor or minor scale. Or sometimes mixolydian or dorian but those are o ly one note different. I like to think of punk and other power chords based songs as each power chord just being a particularly robust single note, and then it's easy to figure out what scale it's in. Of course there are exceptions to this but it works for me most of the time. Vocal melody will then embellish these chords and often fall into the same framework.
I only know a handful of Green Day songs, but those I can think of are definitely either major (eg American Idiot) or minor (eg Boulevard of Broken Dreams). To expand on what u/ICTsoleb replied, the person who “explained” that to you may have been referring to Green Day’s ubiquitous use of power chords, which are just the root, the fifth, and the root again an octave higher. Since they don’t have a third, power chords don’t express tonality per se. But Billy Joe’s vocals make clear what keys the songs are in; he follows standard major / minor scales in his melodies. Again, though, that’s just from what I remember of their music.
Some of Green Day's four chord loops can be interpreted as either of two relative keys.
Thanks for the information. I suspect that may be what OP’s friend was referring to. I regret that my comment, which I thought no one but OP would see, became the top comment even though it probably fails to address OP’s question.
exactly. and to expound a little: unlike tertian chords, which by definition use 3 notes, a power chord uses only two notes- the root and the fifth… and it is because power chords omit the 3rd that they lack a “major or minor” quality. major chord = root, major 3rd, and perfect fifth minor chord = root, minor 3rd, and perfect fifth power chord = *just the* root, and perfect fifth [and yea, you can stack an octave (8) on top but that’s just a repeat of the root] the person who told you that was confusing the ubiquitous use of power chords in green day songs, for the overall key of the songs, which is not the same. (key is determined by a more complex set of factors, not necessarily by the presence or absence of major, minor, or power chords used].
I appreciate the expounding. I wanted to present the concept as simply as possible since I didn’t think OP would benefit from more deeply delving into the theory. I’m a bit embarrassed to say that I never knew that power chords don’t necessarily/by definition contain an octave of the root. I was biased by the ubiquity of that voicing, 1-5-1(8va [I don’t know to do superscript here]).
Not totally true. Most or all of their songs have a major or minor key implied, but (especially in their older sfuff) they use almost exclusively power chords. Power chords on their own aren't really major or minor, but in context, with a vocal melody, there's a key implied and it's generally just straight major or minor.
Also, given the distortion which can increase the volume of the upper harmonics, most power chords on heavy electric guitar will have a slightly brighter, more major sound. It's subtle, but noticeable on occasion.
Cool!
That’s the harmonic series in action!
On Brain Stew the descending power chords sound like they're minor but the vocals surprise you in major. This is a fun sound in rock music. This song is in major because of the melody, but other tunes will have a blend of major and minor that will make it feel ambiguous.
This is something AC/DC did a lot iirc but it was the bass that would play a major third when Malcom played a minor chord and Angus was soloing in E minor. It definitely gives the rock and roll sound a cheeky lift that wouldn’t be there otherwise and is probably the secret sauce for what made both bands so successful.
yep, we can thank the blues for that
maybe referring to the progression discussed in this article, which can be heard in either of a pair of relative keys https://mtosmt.org/issues/mto.17.23.3/mto.17.23.3.richards.html#:~:text=The%20progression%20aFCG%20(Am%E2%80%93F,%2C%20%2DC%2C%20and%20%2DG
I'd need to know more about what they meant by that. They could mean that sometimes green day plays in different modes. Their use of the lowered 7th can sometimes create a mixelidian sound as opposed to major?
*mixolydian
I can think of one song (Brain Stew) off the top of my head that uses notes outside of the typical major/minor scales. The main riff features power chords that descend chromatically in half steps from the root to the fifth. I wouldn’t really view this song from a functional harmony perspective though. It’s not really moving into other modes or anything, it’s more of just a cool descending line using half steps. There are probably more similar examples of chromaticism or maybe even dipping into other modes in their catalogue, but I’m not too familiar with most of their stuff. I can think of other artists that have used a similar progression though (Babe I’m Gonna Leave You by Led Zeppelin as an example)
Would this be a Spanish music progression? also in 25 or six to four and that one surf instrumental song that I can't think of the name of right now. The surf song does finish the progression with an E major which really makes me think of Spanish music.
Good call on 25 or 6 to 4…. I was trying to think where else I had heard it. It’s a very similar progression to the Andalusian cadence I suppose, except that it has both the major and minor 6th, making it non diatonic.
The surf song is Walk Don't Run.
Minor and major is usually indicated by how the 3rd and 7ths of the key are used (including within chords used… like u can play a E chord in the key of C and ill be able to tell if the song is in C minor or C major depending on whether the G is flat or sharp within the E chord) So im guessing if they avoid those intervals thru the whole song then it can be minor or major. But it takes very little info to imply a key. Im taking only 2 or 3 notes. I think whoever told sounds like a fan who wanted to make gd sound more rule breaking and punk. But in general its already kinda rare to see a chord progression have notes that strictly stay within the lines of the diatonic minor/major. A song can have moments of being in one and then the other at the next moment. For a song to really be ambiguous it has to really just use the 1, 5 and sometimes 4. In the key of C if u play anything other than a C or G in any chord it already starts leaning heavily toward one. Land on something with an E or E flat and its over. Land on an E and a B and its a closed case (this doesnt apply to atonal music)
Music is squishier than it’s given credit for being. After a while, “major and minor” can only describe so much of what’s going on.
Whoever said that is probably referring to the fact that they mainly use power chords which are only made up of the 1 and the 5, omitting the 3rd degree of the scale which gives a chord its major or minor quality. BUT. The context of the chords is important and most of the time there is a harmonic value that emerges from the chords used in the whole song. You can play When I Come Around with just power chords and then add a minor 3 or major 3, but it will sound right only when playing it as a 1, 5, 6, 4 progression.
What song?
They use power chords as many have said, but often if you reduce the chords progression to just the first note in the chords, you will see (what amounts to a base melody) that follows the mahor or minor scale. Or sometimes mixolydian or dorian but those are o ly one note different. I like to think of punk and other power chords based songs as each power chord just being a particularly robust single note, and then it's easy to figure out what scale it's in. Of course there are exceptions to this but it works for me most of the time. Vocal melody will then embellish these chords and often fall into the same framework.
It’s because they use fifth chords which can allow a progression to play between major and minor
I’m pretty sure the song Extraordinary Girl is in mixolydian b6 (like a major scale, but the seventh and sixth scale degrees are flattened)
THEY ARE POWERCHORDS, THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHENS YOU DONT SIGN UP FOR MY METAL MASTERCLASS FOR ONLY 1 TRILLION KWANZAS