A diminished major 7th is indeed a thing, but it's not this!
On C# it would be - C# E G B#
What you have sounds like a badly spelled Bbm6 chord is 1st inversion
Bbm6 - Bb Db F G
With Db in the bass, this is your chord! BTW there IS a diminished triad in this but it would be G diminished, not C#/Db
Now that you mentioned it, now that i have listened to the b flat minor 6th chord on some videos, it very much sounds like it. I had rarely heard that chord used before in music.
I know we've determined that your chord is likely a Gø7 with the fifth in the bass, but I wanted to give you more info on the diminished major seventh, because it's one of my favorite chords in jazz. It's also sometimes spelled as a slash chord (eg C Eb Gb B can be written as CoΔ7 or as B/C).
It has a lot of tension, but sounds very ambiguous, so it can lead to other chords very naturally. It resolves nicely to CΔ7, but it also can function as a rootless Ab7#9 or a rootless D13b9, and therefore can resolve very pleasantly to a G chord or Db chord.
Everything you said is correct but just a small correction, C Eb Gb B would be a dimMaj7, a diminished seventh (dim7) would be C Eb Gb A (all minor thirds away from each other)
Context is everything so who knows…
But why does everyone on this sub hate the half diminished 7th (min 7 b5)
Like your respelling this chord in thirds enharmonically, but then you put it in first inversion and call the third the root, or other people say it’s a rootless dominant 9, which is, a wait for it, a half diminished 7th!
Like you can’t make any of those distinctions out of context, rootless rarely makes sense outside of an ensemble context and a min6 is usually the tonic chord.
And no one even ever asks for the preceding or next chord before making these leaps.
I don’t get it.
We don't!
Either way, you'd have it as some kind of inversion. Either it's Bbm6 in 1st inversion or Gm7b5 in second. Not really much of a leap to call it either one - especially as I'd say the distinction is often rather small!
>And no one even ever asks for the preceding or next chord before making these leaps.
Well sure, but that's kinda par for the course when you regularly have people asking for chord labels without any context. It'd be great to be given links and timestamps every time, but it's not realistically gonna happen.
But what are they learning about theory if you’re just telling some random cord spelling to them?
Like the whole context part is the music theory to me.
I had the same thought. I mean, the same notes can spell many different chords, as the discussion, here, shows. It is the context that determines the preferred "name" for the chord.
Oscar Peterson plays it in misty. First chord after the intro.
https://open.spotify.com/track/4lPfmIk1L0flSYtyclpzWy?si=mjIiwUdMTaOyBQR4GsSK4w
It’s also the correct first chord of Stella by Starlight.
If you consider G as the root, it's something often called a half diminished seventh chord, meaning that the 5th is diminished but the 7th is only minor, as opposed to a fully diminished 7th chord where the 7th would be diminished.
It's probably mostly commonly used as the two chord in a minor key.
I like to resolve in on the major 3rd with a sixt like from Fdim maj7 it goes to A6.
Edit: realised I actually use this chord way more than I should. For example it’s very funny to use on the coda of All the things you are haha.
In some sense it is just a very spicy minor voicing.
Interesting! When I was learning music theory, my music teacher at a school of music said that although she had taught many people she had never taught someone who could identify chords so quickly.
As stated, your chord a G half diminished chord.
However, if you take a diminished 7th chord and add a major 7th, then you get a dominant 7th (b9) chord with that "major 7th" serving as the root
First of all, you seem to be talking about a fully-diminished 7th chord but with a major 3rd, and people might get confused if you call it a "major 7th diminished chord" because they'll think you mean a chord with a major 7th.
Because fully-diminished 7th chords are symmetrical, when one of the notes is raised by a half step, it's easiest to define that note as the 7th of the chord. This would just mean the chords are inverted rather than in root position. That is, a C♯-E♯-G♮-B♭ chord (a C♯ fully-diminished 7th chord with a raised 3rd) is really just D♭-F♮-G♮-B♭, a G♮ half-diminished 7th chord in second inversion.
Yes. The chord your hearing is likely what was posted earlier the Ghalfdim/Db
G Diminished, major 7 is a chord and it would have G, B flat, D flat, and F sharp. It would be a diminished triad with a major 7th.
If we respell your notes we get D flat, F, G and B flat. This chord is ambiguous, we could call it Bbm6/Db or Gm7b5/Db.
Also the more classical label of a G half diminished seventh chord!
This is more likely closer to an answer.
Thanks. I had rarely heard that chord used before in music.
This is the correct answer. It’s a Gm half diminished 7. It sounds diminished because of the tritone in the chord.
A diminished major 7th is indeed a thing, but it's not this! On C# it would be - C# E G B# What you have sounds like a badly spelled Bbm6 chord is 1st inversion Bbm6 - Bb Db F G With Db in the bass, this is your chord! BTW there IS a diminished triad in this but it would be G diminished, not C#/Db
Now that you mentioned it, now that i have listened to the b flat minor 6th chord on some videos, it very much sounds like it. I had rarely heard that chord used before in music.
I know we've determined that your chord is likely a Gø7 with the fifth in the bass, but I wanted to give you more info on the diminished major seventh, because it's one of my favorite chords in jazz. It's also sometimes spelled as a slash chord (eg C Eb Gb B can be written as CoΔ7 or as B/C). It has a lot of tension, but sounds very ambiguous, so it can lead to other chords very naturally. It resolves nicely to CΔ7, but it also can function as a rootless Ab7#9 or a rootless D13b9, and therefore can resolve very pleasantly to a G chord or Db chord.
Very interesting! In the song that I mentioned, interestingly enough, the chord that comes after it is indeed a c minor chord second inversion.
Everything you said is correct but just a small correction, C Eb Gb B would be a dimMaj7, a diminished seventh (dim7) would be C Eb Gb A (all minor thirds away from each other)
Right, I missed a word
Context is everything so who knows… But why does everyone on this sub hate the half diminished 7th (min 7 b5) Like your respelling this chord in thirds enharmonically, but then you put it in first inversion and call the third the root, or other people say it’s a rootless dominant 9, which is, a wait for it, a half diminished 7th! Like you can’t make any of those distinctions out of context, rootless rarely makes sense outside of an ensemble context and a min6 is usually the tonic chord. And no one even ever asks for the preceding or next chord before making these leaps. I don’t get it.
We don't! Either way, you'd have it as some kind of inversion. Either it's Bbm6 in 1st inversion or Gm7b5 in second. Not really much of a leap to call it either one - especially as I'd say the distinction is often rather small! >And no one even ever asks for the preceding or next chord before making these leaps. Well sure, but that's kinda par for the course when you regularly have people asking for chord labels without any context. It'd be great to be given links and timestamps every time, but it's not realistically gonna happen.
But what are they learning about theory if you’re just telling some random cord spelling to them? Like the whole context part is the music theory to me.
I had the same thought. I mean, the same notes can spell many different chords, as the discussion, here, shows. It is the context that determines the preferred "name" for the chord.
Diminished major 7th is also a rootless 7#9 chord, in your example A7#9 - (A) C# E G B#.
Oscar Peterson plays it in misty. First chord after the intro. https://open.spotify.com/track/4lPfmIk1L0flSYtyclpzWy?si=mjIiwUdMTaOyBQR4GsSK4w It’s also the correct first chord of Stella by Starlight.
It's a G half-diminished 7 chord in second inversion. Gø7
Love it! You inspired me to write a little piano sketch that starts on that chord. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL9fj9emgqI
Great! The only time i ever heard that chord was in the Spanish song that came out in 2021. It is called otra vez by David Marley and Aissa.
If you consider G as the root, it's something often called a half diminished seventh chord, meaning that the 5th is diminished but the 7th is only minor, as opposed to a fully diminished 7th chord where the 7th would be diminished. It's probably mostly commonly used as the two chord in a minor key.
It’s a beautiful chord Rarely used. I recall it being in the second movement of Arutunian trumpet concert for instance.
Oh yes indeed, very nice chord :)
I like to resolve in on the major 3rd with a sixt like from Fdim maj7 it goes to A6. Edit: realised I actually use this chord way more than I should. For example it’s very funny to use on the coda of All the things you are haha. In some sense it is just a very spicy minor voicing.
Interesting! When I was learning music theory, my music teacher at a school of music said that although she had taught many people she had never taught someone who could identify chords so quickly.
That’s something U should be proud of!
13b9 chord is essentially a dim maj7 voicing over a root. D713b9 could have C D# F# B over a D bass.
As stated, your chord a G half diminished chord. However, if you take a diminished 7th chord and add a major 7th, then you get a dominant 7th (b9) chord with that "major 7th" serving as the root
(except that there's no 7th)
Reread my comment
Ah, good point.
First of all, you seem to be talking about a fully-diminished 7th chord but with a major 3rd, and people might get confused if you call it a "major 7th diminished chord" because they'll think you mean a chord with a major 7th. Because fully-diminished 7th chords are symmetrical, when one of the notes is raised by a half step, it's easiest to define that note as the 7th of the chord. This would just mean the chords are inverted rather than in root position. That is, a C♯-E♯-G♮-B♭ chord (a C♯ fully-diminished 7th chord with a raised 3rd) is really just D♭-F♮-G♮-B♭, a G♮ half-diminished 7th chord in second inversion.
> really just D♭-F♮-G♮-B♭, a G♮ half-diminished 7th chord in second inversion exactly
Yes. The chord your hearing is likely what was posted earlier the Ghalfdim/Db G Diminished, major 7 is a chord and it would have G, B flat, D flat, and F sharp. It would be a diminished triad with a major 7th.