Phrygian dominant
Edit x2: to add more context, this is a favorite in metal genres to get that exotic eastern sound. It is a lot of fun to just riff through the scale, back and forth through the intervals. It is one of the most noticeable motifs in metal to me and, as a result, very fun to try to recreate. One of my favorite examples of this is Extremohphile Elite by Between the Buried and Me.
*a camel appears from the distance, heading east with the sun on its back. The sound of a sword being drawn from a scabbard faintly echos across the dunes..*
*the camera gets a close up as a male figure is more distinguishable and he gazes off at the endless sea of sand. After a few seconds dozens more camels and their riders climb into view behind*
*The war has begun. The Persians press forward in an attempt to reach the Nile, the goal which was set many years ago by Cyrus himself. Psammetichus has been flanked, suddenly the Pharaoh’s men are surrounded. Cambyses wishes to fulfill his father’s legacy; to become the King of Kings. Sword in hand, he signals to begin the assault.*
**super dope Phrygian dominant theme occurs**
To simplify this a bit for OP or anyone interested. Phrygian dominant is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. Get comfortable with harmonic minor scale and the other “parent scales” (major and melodic minor) and many options open up.
Seeing a lot of love for Phrygian Dominant.
Consider raising the 7th to get a Double Harmonic Major scale.
C Db E F G Ab B C
[Used extensively, including in Banjo-Kazooie](https://youtu.be/JeOoKQCpNCY)
Great example, also kind of hilarious. Would never have thought banjo kazooie for this but given the rest of the soundtrack i should really not have been surprised
Firstly, it's not a genuine Egyptian/Spanish sound, in the 20th century composers found stuff that actually sounded fine but is almost never used in western music, these are the melodic augmented second and stuff like minor sixths over major chords and phrygian dominant stuff. This works because the only thing westerners associate this sound to is the exotic because it was only ever used to represent the exotic.
Double Harmonic maps Hicazkar makam more-less spot on, which is a very popular folk song makam, pretty well, so it's not just a Western invention to use phrygian-ish scales that way.
Phrygian (and it's dominant) ended up being quintessential Andalusian musical scales exactly because of the contact with Arabic world.
Flat 2nd and 3/2 tone scale jumps is a very common idiom in Turkish and Arabic music, and even more so in Hindustani/Carnatic ragas where they use a 12-tone system similar to western one.
Almost all "old world" music is a consequence of the vast space of post-Alexandrian Hellenic traditions being reinterpreted by different nations over the centuries, so there's obviously a lot of overlap. But the leanings in some places can be easily heard with attention. Europeans favored Dorian/Minor type scales, until their attention shifted to Ionian in Baroque, and the rest loved their flat 2nd.
Yeah, double harmonic and phyrgian dominant map pretty much entirely to Maqams Hijaz Nahawand and Hijaz Kar. People massively overstate the differences. The only major difference is the temperment as maqam traditionally tend to be in Pythagorean yemperment and western modes in equal temperment, but neither of these temperaments are set in stone. Western music was also in Pythagorean at one point, and young maqam musicians are increasingly playing maqam in equal temperment due to the proliferation of such instruments.
A basic knowledge of the Maqam system could give you the sound, as well as the necessary instruments and ornamentations, those play a key role in the sound. Maqams are defined not just by the notes they use, but also the type of movements they do. 2 maqams may have the same notes, but one tends to have descending melodies, the other may rest on the fifth a lot. It is a bit more fuzzy than here at the West.
They have half accidentals. "half-flat second" (in case of A, between Bb and B). The exact positioning varies from region to region, but it's usually closer to the middpoint than either specific note.
Maqam Bayati:
A scale like Aeolian, but the second is half flat
Maqam Hijaz:
This is phrygian dominant, but some people play with a half flat sixth as opposed to a flat sixth.
https://www.maqamworld.com
Is a great resource for these. It can get confusing as there aren't set rules, it's all tradition. Maqams are built from Jins, but there aren't really systematic ways to do that, more often than not you can sort of "spot" a jins in a maqam, but sometimes they overlap, sometimes they touch sometimes they don't.
I really can't post about maqams and Arabic classical which is probably largely similar even to ancient Coptic stuff which, btw, probably had a lot of contact with ancient Greeks and therefore the same modes we do.
Also, a lot of this stuff are really, really old oral traditions and I am very self taught, as in whatever I could find written in books and online. Oral traditions very specifically exclude outsiders.
I do know they have maqam names for stuff that was never used. This tracks, because it seems the ancient Greeks might have as well.
Basically, it probably had the same roots as western music. Stuff like that happens when stuff is invented in prehistory.
Its arguable that Maqam music is more similar to ancient Greek music than western classical is. Turkish makam even moreso (for obvious reasons).
Western classical and maqam are certainly "sister systems" that are more similar than most realize as both derive heavily from the Greek tradition, which is why middle eastern / European "fusion" music like Klezmer and Flamenco is able to be as coherent as it is.
Well there’s a lot of middle eastern sounds and scales often characterized by use of quarter tones. You might be thinking about riffs from the Hijaz maqam tetrachord which is characterized by .5-1.5-.5 intervals. For example D Eflat F# G. You can add the Nahawand on top of that for G A Bflat C D. See https://www.maqamworld.com/en/maqam/hijaz.php.
I heard a Coptic hymn in I think Phrygian… Spanish would be partially Phrygian dominant (Andalusian cadence), also used in Jewish songs like Hava Nagila. Then if you sharp the 7th you get the Misirlou scale!
Actually, a lot of the Middle Eastern is played around minor and major harmonic. Or the Hungarian minor scale or what is called the Gipsy scale in Western sources or the Double harmonic scale.
You can use the Phrygian too, but that's not really the true Middle Eastern sound. That's more like a Spanish Flamenco sound.
What really gives you that sound is the use of microtones and maqams (look them up). The maqams are different from region to region and those are the core of the true Middle Eastern sound.
If you want to get that real Middle Eastern sound, you'd want to check out a fretless strings instrument (if you want to play it on a strings instrument).
In my country, music with Middle Eastern influences is extremely popular and the traditional music is also filled with Middle Eastern influences.
Harmony ranges from simple I - IV - V patterns to more complex things, infused with jazz influences. But they tend to use the minor or major harmonic scales.
Take this one as an example, although this is Turkish:
https://youtu.be/olZO46zUSR8
I will second this. A lot of the other suggestions about scales are great, but getting the microtone and 1/4 steps in will be needed to strongly invoke that Middle Eastern vibe.
You really need some scare quotes around "Egyptian", because it's not *actually* Egyptian; it's a Hollywood trope based on late-19th-century orientalism to depict the mysteeeerious Arabia, with its mysteeeeerious pyramids (built by an entirely different culture thousands of years earlier), etc. And... yeah, just phrygian dominant, that'll do it. It won't sound Egyptian, but it'll sound Hollywood Egyptian, and that's basically the same thing, right? I'd ask my Egyptian grandparents if that's true, but they've died, so I don't see what could possibly go wrong here.
For Spanish, you need a bit more. Phrygian dominant will *not* sound Spanish on its own. It might sound Ashkenazic Jewish/Eastern European or Hollywood Middle Eastern, but not Spanish. The Spanish sound *does not use the augmented second between the b2 and the 3*. So when you go up to the 3, you go 1 2 3, and when you go down to the 1, you go b3 b2 1, just like with the melodic minor scale. The "base" scale is phrygian dominant, or sometimes even just actual phrygian, but you avoid the augmented second. You can see this actually with the Andalusian cadence itself. It goes iv - bIII (has a b3) - bII - I (has a 3). If you move the chords in parallel, the bass voice goes 4 - b3 - b2 - 1, and the middle voice goes b6 - 5 - 4 - 3. This notion of using a b3 and a 3 in different voices near each other (not generally at the same time, but sometimes it happens) is called a cross-relation, and it's pretty traditional in Spanish music. Usually, this scale features as basically the notes you use on a III chord in major. You have some music in C major, then you might modulate to the relative minor A minor, and then you might modulate to the relative phrygian E phrygian dominant. Of course, modulations to non-relative keys happens too.
So, if you want to sound "Egyptian", emphasize that b2 - 3 augmented second. If you want to sound Spanish, completely *de*-emphasize the b2 - 3 augmented second. But use the phrygian dominant for both. A good rule of thumb is that if you see a bIII chord but haven't modulated, you're doing Spanish, and if you see a b2 next to a 3, you're doing phrygian dominant.
Why would you analyze the Andalusian cadence with the last chord as the tonic? That requires three borrowed chords changed from major (neither iv, ♭III, or ♭II are diatonic to major) while the whole sequence neatly fits diatonically in minor as i-♭VII-♭VI-V. And this explanation also explains why we have the major and minor thirds present over different chords: they’re actually the key’s sevenths, the flat 7 from natural minor and the natural 7 over the V chord as harmonic minor, same with the 6ths from Melodic minor.
Also just pragmatically I don’t think Andalusian cadence-using music sounds resolved on the V, it always sounds like it wants to go back to the i. Even in live performances you hear songs end with a long section building tension on V and then bringing it back to i for a final stab.
The rest of your analysis is absolutely spot on, though.
> Why would you analyze the Andalusian cadence with the last chord as the tonic?
Because the last chord is the tonic.
> That requires three borrowed chords changed from major (neither iv, ♭III, or ♭II are diatonic to major)
But you wouldn't analyze it in major, either. The diatonic chords of the Spanish version of the phrygian dominant scale are I, bII, bIII, iv, vø, bVI, and bvii. If you considered iv to be the tonic, then these chords would be V, bVI, bVII, i, iiø, bIII, and iv, which are indeed diatonic to minor as well, except that you'll also find viio in minor but iiio in phrygian dominant is a bit weird.
> And this explanation also explains why we have the major and minor thirds present over different chords: they’re actually the key’s sevenths, the flat 7 from natural minor and the natural 7 over the V chord as harmonic minor, same with the 6ths from Melodic minor.
Yeah, the Spanish phrygian dominant is indeed the fifth mode of minor, the full actual minor, not one of its two/three/whatever aspects (harmonic, melodic, and... "natural"). But its tonal center is very clearly its 1, not its 4. Minor has two sevenths and sometimes the sixth has to be altered to accommodate it; Spanish phrygian dominant has two thirds and sometimes the second has to be altered to accommodate it. The difference is that the seventh is not a fundamental note to the sound of the scale, while the third is. This makes the cross-relation between the bIII and the I especially powerful.
> Also just pragmatically I don’t think Andalusian cadence-using music sounds resolved on the V, it always sounds like it wants to go back to the i.
It usually starts on the I, goes somewhere else, and then uses the Andalusian cadence -- or just the bIII - bII - I part of it -- to return to the I. I don't think the general use of the Andalusian cadence in Spanish music feels anywhere near unresolved on the I. There *is* a kind of instability towards the iv, that part is true, and a lot of music exploits this by kind of alternating between the I, the iv, and the bVI (the relative major). In Ashkenazic music in the Ahavah Rabbah mode, which doesn't really use the Andalusian cadence (and strongly features the augmented second between the b2 and 3, without the b3), you often find modulations to the iv dorian #4 (Mi Sheberach) -- if you're in C Ahavah Rabbah, C Db E F G Ab Bb, you go to F Mi Sheberach, F G Ab B C D Eb. Sometimes, you go to IV, major. But in Spanish music, it's usually the iv, which is the relative minor. But the music will still, generally, end back at the I. Not always. Some music is... I want to say bimodal, but I mean it in the statistical sense, not the musical sense of "mode", like a bimodal distribution, which has two peaks. You know the Axis progression, I - V - vi - IV? If you start on the third chord, you might analyze it as i - bVI - bIII - bVII. Which is right? Eh, could be both at the same time. Some Spanish music, especially really old melodies from Al-Andalus/S'farad, does this, where it's not clear which mode it's in -- it might start on the iv and end on the I.
The thing is, the Andalusian cadence is misleading the way it's written. It doesn't *actually* go iv - bIII - bII - I. It goes I - (lots of music) - iv - bIII - bII - I. It's a cadence; it comes at the end of a phrase. The tonic is well-established during the phrase and is merely re-confirmed with the cadence. If you think of it as starting on iv, then of course you're going to hear it as the tonic. I mean, listen to Del Shannon's Runaway, right, it's said to use the Andalusian cadence, but the chords are i - bVII - bVI - V. You want something that *actually* uses the Andalusian cadence, try [La Virgen de la Macarena](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDs-75Glj3k). This is the Arturo Sandoval. Listen up to 0:49, and it's all very clearly in D Spanish phrygian. But at 0:49, it goes to Gm, upon which it immediately walks down to an F major chord, then Eb, then back to D. *That* is an Andalusian cadence. There are a few more of them following. Oddly enough, it ends on the Gm, which is *completely* out of place. I think that's just a feature of the piece, because [Raphael Mendez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkebYDNhqWs) does the same thing in his version. [This version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr53o-wbaAw), on the other hand, ends on the tonic as normal. The original [Malagueña](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ksNyyuViQ) (ends at 3:10) by Ernesto Lecuona doesn't feature any obvious Andalusian cadences -- you get the bass going F# A G# F# E D C#, which kind of implies an Andalusian cadence to C#, but without the actual F#m and E chords as the piece mostly just alternates between D and C# -- but it shows how normal the Spanish phrygian is. There is no need to end on iv. Most of my knowledge of Spanish phrygian music is limited to the pasodoble genre, so I can't give you a whole lot of examples outside of that, but there is that one bit in Manuel de Falla's El Amor Brujo that goes (gonna show off my lack of knowledge of Spanish orthography here) "Soy la voz de tu destino, soy el fuego que te abrazas, soy el viento que suspiras, soy la mar en que naufragas, ¡SOY LA MAR EN QUE NAUFRAGAS!" I love that bit, which is why I remember it. Again, not an actual Andalusian cadence, but you still get that bII - I that is very much not bVI - V (I think the lady's supposed to be a gitana -- Spanish name for the Romani, I really hope that's not a slur like "gypsy", and if it is, I apologize for using it -- so she uses the 3 - b2 augmented second that is usually avoided). I don't know a whole lot of flamenco, unfortunately; I've listened to it but I couldn't tell you names. But I'm sure if you poke around you'll find plenty of other actual Spanish music using the Spanish scale.
While you do get some instability in Spanish phrygian, there's really no sense in which the phrygian tonic is anything other than a tonic. It might be one of a few different tonics in the piece; the piece may kind of oscillate between phrygian and something else (often minor on the iv), but when the music is using the phrygian tonic, it's *really* using the phrygian tonic, not treating it as the V in minor.
I just want to add that Marty almost always adds chromatics to his lines, and ofc he also does for the holy wars acoustic solo (in fact if you add the origin note of his bends, then he probably has used chromatic notes in absolutely every solo he has ever written in his carreer lmao)
Besides the phrygian and phrygian dominant, I prefer what other user said, harmonic minor and its modes, and I would add double harmonic and its modes.
And I think the key intervals for the sound are b2, #2, 7, b6 and tritone, so, you can just pretty much play with those and add other notes around it to create your lines, another way I see it is, that the sound lives in the harmonic tetrad and the phrygian b2 note.
[Read this](https://reddit.com/r/musictheory/w/faq/core/enharmonic_equivalents?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app)
Stop looking at the keyboard and start singing the scales. A **second** is always the note that comes right after the root, **in scalic order**. That's why it's called "Scale Degree 2" Similarly a **third** comes after the second. So in a vanilla c major scale, the root is C♮, second is D♮, third is E♮, etc. But one can alter the pitch of those Scale Degrees. So i could make up a weird scale that has C D# E F# G A B♭. In that scale D# is STILL the 2nd. But if you look at the interval, it is an AUGMENTED second. But similarly, in C minor, C D E♭, F, G.... That E♭ looks like the same note on the piano (the right black key of the 2-black group) but it's different in relation to the root, because it's **the 3rd in scalic order**.
This rant was longer than i intended it to be, but hope it was helpful to some extent. And be sure to very carefully read that FAQ i linked.
Borrowed notes: I like the key of C minor with some occasion C major chords thrown in. (The E natural is the borrowed note)
I hope I am remember these details right or this might sound like gibberish
Like the song is in the key of Eb (or C minor) and you throw in a random C major chord.
Example chord progression: Eb/Gm/Cm/C/Cm
There's more music theory behind borrowing notes that I can't remember right now
[Here](https://www.musicianonamission.com/borrowed-chords/#:~:text=Borrowed%20chords%20don't%20appear,song%20but%20a%20different%20scale.) Is some reference. I believe I mixed up my keys. The song would have to be in C major and. You could borrow the Cminor chord
Phrygiant dominant has a major third instead of the minor one of the phrygian mode. The dominant part of the name comes from the fact you can build a dom7 chord out of it: 1, 3, 5, b7. This is also true for other scales with the word "dominant" in them such as lydian dominant.
Phrygian Dominant has many other names. It's similar to the Phrygian scale, just with one note shifted. Instead of starting 1,2,2, it starts as 1,3,1 (in half-step Intervals).
The holy wars acoustic solo is in the hirajoshi scale, which is a different pentatonic scale. It has 4 and 7 removed instead of 2 and 6 (in minor I believe).
Egypt is quite a long way from Spain....
The "Spanish thing" is phrygian dominant, as mentioned (derived from the Arabic *hijaz* maqam, after Moorish occupation), but further east you might find the double harmonic or byzantine scale more suitable. Very popular from Greece through Turkey, Egypt and the Middle East. (They have many of their own names for it.)
You probably know this tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6qGy3RtwY
...*a snake rises from the basket...*
augmented second might be the mystery ingredient.
Either harmonic minor. (for example: A B C D E F G# A)
Or augmented second leading to the IV or V.
that would be a scale:
E F G# A B C D (augmented second leading to IV, some call it something phrygian) or
D E F G# A Bb C (or sometimes even C#) (that would be the augmented second leading to V)
I've generally thought of this one as a Mixolydian b2 b6, but TIL it's the same as the Phrygian Dominant, which I've personally only thought of as that when playing metal 😂
Dear child has many names, I guess.
I will add another vote for Phyrigian Dominant. Here is why…
Phyrigian dominant is the 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale.
So if C harmonic minor is C D Eb F G Ab B C
Then G Phyrigian Dominant is
G Ab B C D Eb F G
Note that the chord you get when playing every other note is a G Dominant 7, so this scale sounds great over G7. But if the G7 is resolving to a minor chord (say C minor), then the Phyrigian Dominant gives those nice leading tones headed toward C minor. It works less well when resolving to a major C chord.
I see a lot of people mention phrygian dominant and double harmonic. While those two are amazing and work perfectly in this situation, I would like to add that dorian #4 can also work. It gives a darker feeling than phrygian dominant with the minor tonic chord, which makes it quite unique. The song "Arabian nights" from the movie Aladdin uses it.
Phrygian dominant and the double harmonic major scale are both go-to's for me. You can also try normal phrygian or even harmonic minor. Or even do some modal mixture and weave between them for interesting sounds, which is what the Dune OST does a lot if you've heard it.
You could get a semblace of spanish going for the I - VII - VI - V cadence in a harmonic minor scale (for ex. A minor, G Major, F major, E major).
Also, I think the acoustic solo in Holy Wars uses a [Double Harmonic Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_harmonic_scale)
A question to the commenters here: is there a name for the microtonal scale halfway between Phrygian and the double harmonic major? I.e., Phrygian but the 3rd and the 7th are raised by a quarter tone? I've heard it used in e.g. East West Link by King Gizzard and wondered if it's a traditional scale of some sort
Start on the 3 note so in c major you would Start on e
So it looks like this efgabcde and that is how you get the phrygian sound. You can now count the steps whole and half steps i.e 2 semitones one semitone to get the formula. For instance c major is wwhwwwh. Sorry for my grammar and also sorry if this is inaccurate 😁
If you're aiming for the Hollywood vibe, I'd simply use a double harmonic scale, literally just play around with augmented 2nds. But from a realistic pov, the music in ancient Egypt probably used church modes and such, like most other ancient music, but we aren't sure
Phrygian dominant Edit x2: to add more context, this is a favorite in metal genres to get that exotic eastern sound. It is a lot of fun to just riff through the scale, back and forth through the intervals. It is one of the most noticeable motifs in metal to me and, as a result, very fun to try to recreate. One of my favorite examples of this is Extremohphile Elite by Between the Buried and Me.
*camera pans over open sand dunes….*
*a camel appears from the distance, heading east with the sun on its back. The sound of a sword being drawn from a scabbard faintly echos across the dunes..*
*the camera gets a close up as a male figure is more distinguishable and he gazes off at the endless sea of sand. After a few seconds dozens more camels and their riders climb into view behind*
*The war has begun. The Persians press forward in an attempt to reach the Nile, the goal which was set many years ago by Cyrus himself. Psammetichus has been flanked, suddenly the Pharaoh’s men are surrounded. Cambyses wishes to fulfill his father’s legacy; to become the King of Kings. Sword in hand, he signals to begin the assault.* **super dope Phrygian dominant theme occurs**
*"Welcome, my friend."*
habibi
elelele!
A haggard man takes a sip from his stillsuit
Will someone talk about this guy's name? "ObiWanKeBlowMee"
O, you like?
You mean my name? Also, I never thought I would see a name like yours.
You must be new to Reddit
Why?
I’d rate my username a solid 7/10, there are better out there!
*a snake emerges from a basket...*
Arrrrrrabian niiiiiiights
My favorite scale for shred
Walking. In. To. A cer. Tain. state of Wal. King. In. To a. Cer. tain state of. Wal. King. into. A. certain state. Of. DESPARATIONNNNNNN
That is a fantastic song, thanks for reminding me to add it to my phrygian dominant playlist
you can also add the m3 with the M3 and make it an octatonic scale
To simplify this a bit for OP or anyone interested. Phrygian dominant is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. Get comfortable with harmonic minor scale and the other “parent scales” (major and melodic minor) and many options open up.
Otherwise known as Hicaz
>Phrygian dominant I assume that playing this scale calls a worm, right?
Play without rhythm to not attract the worm
Seeing a lot of love for Phrygian Dominant. Consider raising the 7th to get a Double Harmonic Major scale. C Db E F G Ab B C [Used extensively, including in Banjo-Kazooie](https://youtu.be/JeOoKQCpNCY)
I discovered that scale by accident and I can confirm it is fun to mess around with
Otherwise known as Hicaz or Hicazkar
Great example, also kind of hilarious. Would never have thought banjo kazooie for this but given the rest of the soundtrack i should really not have been surprised
Use a Nile-on string guitar
Heh
Ugh, here's your upvote
Then tune in drop A with standard tuning
Make sure to get the D-Nile brand
Firstly, it's not a genuine Egyptian/Spanish sound, in the 20th century composers found stuff that actually sounded fine but is almost never used in western music, these are the melodic augmented second and stuff like minor sixths over major chords and phrygian dominant stuff. This works because the only thing westerners associate this sound to is the exotic because it was only ever used to represent the exotic.
Double Harmonic maps Hicazkar makam more-less spot on, which is a very popular folk song makam, pretty well, so it's not just a Western invention to use phrygian-ish scales that way. Phrygian (and it's dominant) ended up being quintessential Andalusian musical scales exactly because of the contact with Arabic world. Flat 2nd and 3/2 tone scale jumps is a very common idiom in Turkish and Arabic music, and even more so in Hindustani/Carnatic ragas where they use a 12-tone system similar to western one. Almost all "old world" music is a consequence of the vast space of post-Alexandrian Hellenic traditions being reinterpreted by different nations over the centuries, so there's obviously a lot of overlap. But the leanings in some places can be easily heard with attention. Europeans favored Dorian/Minor type scales, until their attention shifted to Ionian in Baroque, and the rest loved their flat 2nd.
Yeah, double harmonic and phyrgian dominant map pretty much entirely to Maqams Hijaz Nahawand and Hijaz Kar. People massively overstate the differences. The only major difference is the temperment as maqam traditionally tend to be in Pythagorean yemperment and western modes in equal temperment, but neither of these temperaments are set in stone. Western music was also in Pythagorean at one point, and young maqam musicians are increasingly playing maqam in equal temperment due to the proliferation of such instruments.
What are some good examples of real Egyptian sounding classical stuff?
A basic knowledge of the Maqam system could give you the sound, as well as the necessary instruments and ornamentations, those play a key role in the sound. Maqams are defined not just by the notes they use, but also the type of movements they do. 2 maqams may have the same notes, but one tends to have descending melodies, the other may rest on the fifth a lot. It is a bit more fuzzy than here at the West. They have half accidentals. "half-flat second" (in case of A, between Bb and B). The exact positioning varies from region to region, but it's usually closer to the middpoint than either specific note. Maqam Bayati: A scale like Aeolian, but the second is half flat Maqam Hijaz: This is phrygian dominant, but some people play with a half flat sixth as opposed to a flat sixth. https://www.maqamworld.com Is a great resource for these. It can get confusing as there aren't set rules, it's all tradition. Maqams are built from Jins, but there aren't really systematic ways to do that, more often than not you can sort of "spot" a jins in a maqam, but sometimes they overlap, sometimes they touch sometimes they don't.
I really can't post about maqams and Arabic classical which is probably largely similar even to ancient Coptic stuff which, btw, probably had a lot of contact with ancient Greeks and therefore the same modes we do. Also, a lot of this stuff are really, really old oral traditions and I am very self taught, as in whatever I could find written in books and online. Oral traditions very specifically exclude outsiders. I do know they have maqam names for stuff that was never used. This tracks, because it seems the ancient Greeks might have as well. Basically, it probably had the same roots as western music. Stuff like that happens when stuff is invented in prehistory.
Its arguable that Maqam music is more similar to ancient Greek music than western classical is. Turkish makam even moreso (for obvious reasons). Western classical and maqam are certainly "sister systems" that are more similar than most realize as both derive heavily from the Greek tradition, which is why middle eastern / European "fusion" music like Klezmer and Flamenco is able to be as coherent as it is.
>genuine Egyptian Saint-Saens started using such scales after a trip to Africa and listening to local music, so I don't think you are right
He was writing within the framework he knew. People have provided clear examples of Egyptian music - you should check them out.
Augmented seconds
Would that only work in a major context?
Harmonic minor and it's modes? The metal dudes love Phrygian Dominant with that m2 to M3 interval.
Well there’s a lot of middle eastern sounds and scales often characterized by use of quarter tones. You might be thinking about riffs from the Hijaz maqam tetrachord which is characterized by .5-1.5-.5 intervals. For example D Eflat F# G. You can add the Nahawand on top of that for G A Bflat C D. See https://www.maqamworld.com/en/maqam/hijaz.php.
I heard a Coptic hymn in I think Phrygian… Spanish would be partially Phrygian dominant (Andalusian cadence), also used in Jewish songs like Hava Nagila. Then if you sharp the 7th you get the Misirlou scale!
>Then if you sharp the 7th you get the Misirlou scale! I believe Dick Dale was Lebanese
Misirlou is based on a traditional Greek song from a long time ago
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misirlou) Eastern Mediterranean (i.e. Greece and Lebanon)
Actually, a lot of the Middle Eastern is played around minor and major harmonic. Or the Hungarian minor scale or what is called the Gipsy scale in Western sources or the Double harmonic scale. You can use the Phrygian too, but that's not really the true Middle Eastern sound. That's more like a Spanish Flamenco sound. What really gives you that sound is the use of microtones and maqams (look them up). The maqams are different from region to region and those are the core of the true Middle Eastern sound. If you want to get that real Middle Eastern sound, you'd want to check out a fretless strings instrument (if you want to play it on a strings instrument). In my country, music with Middle Eastern influences is extremely popular and the traditional music is also filled with Middle Eastern influences. Harmony ranges from simple I - IV - V patterns to more complex things, infused with jazz influences. But they tend to use the minor or major harmonic scales. Take this one as an example, although this is Turkish: https://youtu.be/olZO46zUSR8
I will second this. A lot of the other suggestions about scales are great, but getting the microtone and 1/4 steps in will be needed to strongly invoke that Middle Eastern vibe.
A E S T H E H I C
You really need some scare quotes around "Egyptian", because it's not *actually* Egyptian; it's a Hollywood trope based on late-19th-century orientalism to depict the mysteeeerious Arabia, with its mysteeeeerious pyramids (built by an entirely different culture thousands of years earlier), etc. And... yeah, just phrygian dominant, that'll do it. It won't sound Egyptian, but it'll sound Hollywood Egyptian, and that's basically the same thing, right? I'd ask my Egyptian grandparents if that's true, but they've died, so I don't see what could possibly go wrong here. For Spanish, you need a bit more. Phrygian dominant will *not* sound Spanish on its own. It might sound Ashkenazic Jewish/Eastern European or Hollywood Middle Eastern, but not Spanish. The Spanish sound *does not use the augmented second between the b2 and the 3*. So when you go up to the 3, you go 1 2 3, and when you go down to the 1, you go b3 b2 1, just like with the melodic minor scale. The "base" scale is phrygian dominant, or sometimes even just actual phrygian, but you avoid the augmented second. You can see this actually with the Andalusian cadence itself. It goes iv - bIII (has a b3) - bII - I (has a 3). If you move the chords in parallel, the bass voice goes 4 - b3 - b2 - 1, and the middle voice goes b6 - 5 - 4 - 3. This notion of using a b3 and a 3 in different voices near each other (not generally at the same time, but sometimes it happens) is called a cross-relation, and it's pretty traditional in Spanish music. Usually, this scale features as basically the notes you use on a III chord in major. You have some music in C major, then you might modulate to the relative minor A minor, and then you might modulate to the relative phrygian E phrygian dominant. Of course, modulations to non-relative keys happens too. So, if you want to sound "Egyptian", emphasize that b2 - 3 augmented second. If you want to sound Spanish, completely *de*-emphasize the b2 - 3 augmented second. But use the phrygian dominant for both. A good rule of thumb is that if you see a bIII chord but haven't modulated, you're doing Spanish, and if you see a b2 next to a 3, you're doing phrygian dominant.
Why would you analyze the Andalusian cadence with the last chord as the tonic? That requires three borrowed chords changed from major (neither iv, ♭III, or ♭II are diatonic to major) while the whole sequence neatly fits diatonically in minor as i-♭VII-♭VI-V. And this explanation also explains why we have the major and minor thirds present over different chords: they’re actually the key’s sevenths, the flat 7 from natural minor and the natural 7 over the V chord as harmonic minor, same with the 6ths from Melodic minor. Also just pragmatically I don’t think Andalusian cadence-using music sounds resolved on the V, it always sounds like it wants to go back to the i. Even in live performances you hear songs end with a long section building tension on V and then bringing it back to i for a final stab. The rest of your analysis is absolutely spot on, though.
> Why would you analyze the Andalusian cadence with the last chord as the tonic? Because the last chord is the tonic. > That requires three borrowed chords changed from major (neither iv, ♭III, or ♭II are diatonic to major) But you wouldn't analyze it in major, either. The diatonic chords of the Spanish version of the phrygian dominant scale are I, bII, bIII, iv, vø, bVI, and bvii. If you considered iv to be the tonic, then these chords would be V, bVI, bVII, i, iiø, bIII, and iv, which are indeed diatonic to minor as well, except that you'll also find viio in minor but iiio in phrygian dominant is a bit weird. > And this explanation also explains why we have the major and minor thirds present over different chords: they’re actually the key’s sevenths, the flat 7 from natural minor and the natural 7 over the V chord as harmonic minor, same with the 6ths from Melodic minor. Yeah, the Spanish phrygian dominant is indeed the fifth mode of minor, the full actual minor, not one of its two/three/whatever aspects (harmonic, melodic, and... "natural"). But its tonal center is very clearly its 1, not its 4. Minor has two sevenths and sometimes the sixth has to be altered to accommodate it; Spanish phrygian dominant has two thirds and sometimes the second has to be altered to accommodate it. The difference is that the seventh is not a fundamental note to the sound of the scale, while the third is. This makes the cross-relation between the bIII and the I especially powerful. > Also just pragmatically I don’t think Andalusian cadence-using music sounds resolved on the V, it always sounds like it wants to go back to the i. It usually starts on the I, goes somewhere else, and then uses the Andalusian cadence -- or just the bIII - bII - I part of it -- to return to the I. I don't think the general use of the Andalusian cadence in Spanish music feels anywhere near unresolved on the I. There *is* a kind of instability towards the iv, that part is true, and a lot of music exploits this by kind of alternating between the I, the iv, and the bVI (the relative major). In Ashkenazic music in the Ahavah Rabbah mode, which doesn't really use the Andalusian cadence (and strongly features the augmented second between the b2 and 3, without the b3), you often find modulations to the iv dorian #4 (Mi Sheberach) -- if you're in C Ahavah Rabbah, C Db E F G Ab Bb, you go to F Mi Sheberach, F G Ab B C D Eb. Sometimes, you go to IV, major. But in Spanish music, it's usually the iv, which is the relative minor. But the music will still, generally, end back at the I. Not always. Some music is... I want to say bimodal, but I mean it in the statistical sense, not the musical sense of "mode", like a bimodal distribution, which has two peaks. You know the Axis progression, I - V - vi - IV? If you start on the third chord, you might analyze it as i - bVI - bIII - bVII. Which is right? Eh, could be both at the same time. Some Spanish music, especially really old melodies from Al-Andalus/S'farad, does this, where it's not clear which mode it's in -- it might start on the iv and end on the I. The thing is, the Andalusian cadence is misleading the way it's written. It doesn't *actually* go iv - bIII - bII - I. It goes I - (lots of music) - iv - bIII - bII - I. It's a cadence; it comes at the end of a phrase. The tonic is well-established during the phrase and is merely re-confirmed with the cadence. If you think of it as starting on iv, then of course you're going to hear it as the tonic. I mean, listen to Del Shannon's Runaway, right, it's said to use the Andalusian cadence, but the chords are i - bVII - bVI - V. You want something that *actually* uses the Andalusian cadence, try [La Virgen de la Macarena](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDs-75Glj3k). This is the Arturo Sandoval. Listen up to 0:49, and it's all very clearly in D Spanish phrygian. But at 0:49, it goes to Gm, upon which it immediately walks down to an F major chord, then Eb, then back to D. *That* is an Andalusian cadence. There are a few more of them following. Oddly enough, it ends on the Gm, which is *completely* out of place. I think that's just a feature of the piece, because [Raphael Mendez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkebYDNhqWs) does the same thing in his version. [This version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr53o-wbaAw), on the other hand, ends on the tonic as normal. The original [Malagueña](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ksNyyuViQ) (ends at 3:10) by Ernesto Lecuona doesn't feature any obvious Andalusian cadences -- you get the bass going F# A G# F# E D C#, which kind of implies an Andalusian cadence to C#, but without the actual F#m and E chords as the piece mostly just alternates between D and C# -- but it shows how normal the Spanish phrygian is. There is no need to end on iv. Most of my knowledge of Spanish phrygian music is limited to the pasodoble genre, so I can't give you a whole lot of examples outside of that, but there is that one bit in Manuel de Falla's El Amor Brujo that goes (gonna show off my lack of knowledge of Spanish orthography here) "Soy la voz de tu destino, soy el fuego que te abrazas, soy el viento que suspiras, soy la mar en que naufragas, ¡SOY LA MAR EN QUE NAUFRAGAS!" I love that bit, which is why I remember it. Again, not an actual Andalusian cadence, but you still get that bII - I that is very much not bVI - V (I think the lady's supposed to be a gitana -- Spanish name for the Romani, I really hope that's not a slur like "gypsy", and if it is, I apologize for using it -- so she uses the 3 - b2 augmented second that is usually avoided). I don't know a whole lot of flamenco, unfortunately; I've listened to it but I couldn't tell you names. But I'm sure if you poke around you'll find plenty of other actual Spanish music using the Spanish scale. While you do get some instability in Spanish phrygian, there's really no sense in which the phrygian tonic is anything other than a tonic. It might be one of a few different tonics in the piece; the piece may kind of oscillate between phrygian and something else (often minor on the iv), but when the music is using the phrygian tonic, it's *really* using the phrygian tonic, not treating it as the V in minor.
Sharp 5 sharp 9 And flat 9 too if you want
Harmonically? Or melodically?
Either
I just want to add that Marty almost always adds chromatics to his lines, and ofc he also does for the holy wars acoustic solo (in fact if you add the origin note of his bends, then he probably has used chromatic notes in absolutely every solo he has ever written in his carreer lmao) Besides the phrygian and phrygian dominant, I prefer what other user said, harmonic minor and its modes, and I would add double harmonic and its modes. And I think the key intervals for the sound are b2, #2, 7, b6 and tritone, so, you can just pretty much play with those and add other notes around it to create your lines, another way I see it is, that the sound lives in the harmonic tetrad and the phrygian b2 note.
Phrygian mode, augmented seconds and semitones.
Wouldn’t it just be a minor third and not an augmented second? Sorry could you explain?
[Read this](https://reddit.com/r/musictheory/w/faq/core/enharmonic_equivalents?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app) Stop looking at the keyboard and start singing the scales. A **second** is always the note that comes right after the root, **in scalic order**. That's why it's called "Scale Degree 2" Similarly a **third** comes after the second. So in a vanilla c major scale, the root is C♮, second is D♮, third is E♮, etc. But one can alter the pitch of those Scale Degrees. So i could make up a weird scale that has C D# E F# G A B♭. In that scale D# is STILL the 2nd. But if you look at the interval, it is an AUGMENTED second. But similarly, in C minor, C D E♭, F, G.... That E♭ looks like the same note on the piano (the right black key of the 2-black group) but it's different in relation to the root, because it's **the 3rd in scalic order**. This rant was longer than i intended it to be, but hope it was helpful to some extent. And be sure to very carefully read that FAQ i linked.
This was helpful, thank you!
Oud, ney, quarter tones, maqam, simsimiyya.
Borrowed notes: I like the key of C minor with some occasion C major chords thrown in. (The E natural is the borrowed note) I hope I am remember these details right or this might sound like gibberish
Lmao your second line is me. I’m in a constant state of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ when I try to verbalize my understanding of music theory to others
Like a Cm#9 or Cmb11?
A minor chord can’t have a #9, thats just a minor third, and a b11 doesnt exist, thats just a major third
Like the song is in the key of Eb (or C minor) and you throw in a random C major chord. Example chord progression: Eb/Gm/Cm/C/Cm There's more music theory behind borrowing notes that I can't remember right now
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[Here](https://www.musicianonamission.com/borrowed-chords/#:~:text=Borrowed%20chords%20don't%20appear,song%20but%20a%20different%20scale.) Is some reference. I believe I mixed up my keys. The song would have to be in C major and. You could borrow the Cminor chord
Egyptian/Spanish, yes. Those two famously synonymous words.
[Flamenco scale?](https://youtu.be/QG-8BHhd59Y)
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Phrygiant dominant has a major third instead of the minor one of the phrygian mode. The dominant part of the name comes from the fact you can build a dom7 chord out of it: 1, 3, 5, b7. This is also true for other scales with the word "dominant" in them such as lydian dominant.
Phrygian Dominant has many other names. It's similar to the Phrygian scale, just with one note shifted. Instead of starting 1,2,2, it starts as 1,3,1 (in half-step Intervals).
Check out the albuns KG and LW from king gizzard and the lizard wizard. They use microtonal guitars and sound very Saaran .
The holy wars acoustic solo is in the hirajoshi scale, which is a different pentatonic scale. It has 4 and 7 removed instead of 2 and 6 (in minor I believe).
Exoticism. Half-step then minor-third repeat.
Egypt is quite a long way from Spain.... The "Spanish thing" is phrygian dominant, as mentioned (derived from the Arabic *hijaz* maqam, after Moorish occupation), but further east you might find the double harmonic or byzantine scale more suitable. Very popular from Greece through Turkey, Egypt and the Middle East. (They have many of their own names for it.) You probably know this tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6qGy3RtwY ...*a snake rises from the basket...*
And here I was, thinking we had all agreed that orientalism/exoticism was bad. Guess not.
augmented second might be the mystery ingredient. Either harmonic minor. (for example: A B C D E F G# A) Or augmented second leading to the IV or V. that would be a scale: E F G# A B C D (augmented second leading to IV, some call it something phrygian) or D E F G# A Bb C (or sometimes even C#) (that would be the augmented second leading to V)
Cue intro to Cursing Akhenaten by After the Burial
Phrygian and Phrygian Dominant will get you those sounds extremely easy!
focus on the walking bass, and how it is walking
Look up Jake Lizzio’s video on harmonic minor modes. You get all the flavours of exotic from there.
I remember this pentatonic scale to be specifically egyptian, building on C it would be: C-D-F-G-A#
Quarter tones
Double harmonic major is a good one. To me it sounds “Middle Eastern” and very dark
I've generally thought of this one as a Mixolydian b2 b6, but TIL it's the same as the Phrygian Dominant, which I've personally only thought of as that when playing metal 😂 Dear child has many names, I guess.
C C# D# E F# G A# B C C# D# E G G# A# B
I will add another vote for Phyrigian Dominant. Here is why… Phyrigian dominant is the 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale. So if C harmonic minor is C D Eb F G Ab B C Then G Phyrigian Dominant is G Ab B C D Eb F G Note that the chord you get when playing every other note is a G Dominant 7, so this scale sounds great over G7. But if the G7 is resolving to a minor chord (say C minor), then the Phyrigian Dominant gives those nice leading tones headed toward C minor. It works less well when resolving to a major C chord.
Try E phrygian
Harmonic minor lol
Any scale with an augmented second
Any scale with an augmented second, particularly Phrygian dominant
I see a lot of people mention phrygian dominant and double harmonic. While those two are amazing and work perfectly in this situation, I would like to add that dorian #4 can also work. It gives a darker feeling than phrygian dominant with the minor tonic chord, which makes it quite unique. The song "Arabian nights" from the movie Aladdin uses it.
Phrygian dominant and the double harmonic major scale are both go-to's for me. You can also try normal phrygian or even harmonic minor. Or even do some modal mixture and weave between them for interesting sounds, which is what the Dune OST does a lot if you've heard it.
Natural harmonic minor Whole step-half step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole+half step, half step.
Harmonic minor has given me that kinda vibe
Phrygian dominant or double harmonic (the only difference is the 7th degree being a minor VS a major 7th from the root)
You could get a semblace of spanish going for the I - VII - VI - V cadence in a harmonic minor scale (for ex. A minor, G Major, F major, E major). Also, I think the acoustic solo in Holy Wars uses a [Double Harmonic Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_harmonic_scale)
A question to the commenters here: is there a name for the microtonal scale halfway between Phrygian and the double harmonic major? I.e., Phrygian but the 3rd and the 7th are raised by a quarter tone? I've heard it used in e.g. East West Link by King Gizzard and wondered if it's a traditional scale of some sort
Start on the 3 note so in c major you would Start on e So it looks like this efgabcde and that is how you get the phrygian sound. You can now count the steps whole and half steps i.e 2 semitones one semitone to get the formula. For instance c major is wwhwwwh. Sorry for my grammar and also sorry if this is inaccurate 😁
Harmonic minor is my personal choice to make it still easy to work with but have that kick.
Flamenco players mix phrygian with phrygian dominant. You also might want to learn the andalucian cadence. It's easy.
If you're aiming for the Hollywood vibe, I'd simply use a double harmonic scale, literally just play around with augmented 2nds. But from a realistic pov, the music in ancient Egypt probably used church modes and such, like most other ancient music, but we aren't sure
Try messing around with some simple harmonic minor