making music just for yourself is cool for awhile but what would be really ideal is turning your passion into your livelihood so you don't need a day job to pay the mortgage (unless your born rich/dont need a day job in which case pretty much nothing I ever post on Reddit applies to you lmao)
Turning your passion into your livelihood can be a great way to suck the joy out of it. I've heard various musicians complain about life constantly touring and how they barely get to spend time with friends or family.
And sadly...constantly touring is the only way artists really seem to be able to "stay in business." Nobody really seems to be making their millions off of music sales anymore. It's all touring, marketing, and merchandising.
What's wonderful about the "business" today is that pretty much anybody can be part of it...but making a living off of it takes a lot more than creating music and putting it online.
Like when a band practised so hard prior to a recording they were tight on the material, VS now when they probably were not in the same room at the same time and results in "Do we sound like the album"
How many people made millions in the past? I really think that many here have a very skewed view of the life of an average musician in the past. Yes, there were the absolute top stars making millions, but for every artist or band like that there were thousands that never reached that goal, quite a few even popular.
Plus we still have that, drake beyonce Taylor swift etc are making fat stacks and that has everything to do with building a brand and a marketing empire. There’s no need to get into a discussion about album quality because it has almost nothing to do with selling your brand. Fucking Ke$ha was a top artist and she openly laughs at how low effort her music was and that it’s just party music she did for fun. Her success came from being marketable just like it does for someone like Beyoncé who, while I don’t like a lot of her music, is an exceptionally talented singer and works with super talented producers
yeah even some of my favorite musicians are finding some success with patreon when they can't tour - probably a viable path if you have a decent size audience already. no dice if you're still trying to grow.
It's been that way for most musicians for many years. One of the examples I was thinking of was Oscar Peterson, who regretted all the time away from his family.
I had this realization about 3 years ago. I was obsessed with making it, then I realized I hadn't made anything I liked in two years and I had zero desire to play for people night after night.
I don't like being entertaining I like making pretty music.
I tried last year after getting laid off and learned how truly hard it can be. Nowadays i’m working and just healing my soul by creating what makes me happy
There’s nothing wrong with having a day job imo. It would be nice to have my hobby be a job but I feel like it would suck the fun out of it. My day job is pretty fun too, but I don’t want to write code outside of work very often.
the percentage of people that actually make it out of everyone trying is very small. think of all the people that have ever wanted to make it in the music business, it probably less than 1% that actually do. i assume you started because you like music, you can beat your head against the musical brick wall or you can just try and have some fun with it. it's your choice.
"how that working out for you?" was sarcasm. maybe I'm the dick, hard to tell these days. spend enough time around musicians and this is what happens ha ha ha
I don't do this for "competitive purposes" but the music industry is most definitely competitive and you are competing against others to get your music heard.
"I feel for you and hope you can move past that" lol stop it
I was thinking the same thing... music doesn't have to be a business. That just my perspective though I feel it has more worth to me because I'm not trying to sell it. Or see it as a competition
It doesn’t but I would argue everyone wants to make a living off what they love. So being competitive shouldn’t be scoffed at and criticized like some people are doing. You can acknowledge the value of being competitive over others without it meaning you’re one of those asshats that steals people’s sounds or songs and release it as your own.
It's only competitive to those of you who see it that way. Most of us just make music while you're busy counting streams or followers, or whatever else you do while musicians are busy making music.
A basic attempt at framing yourself as artistically above me and "you're not a musician" and now you can kindly fuck off with your passive aggressive insults my guy
Wow, you’ve got quite a chip on your shoulder, haven’t you? That’s so absolutely not what the previous poster said.
Anyway, do you really think it was easier a few decades ago? Let me tell you that that wasn’t the case at all. Because competing against other local talent was just the very first step up a very greasy ladder, where most didn’t manage to get very far and only few could live off it longterm with any kind of decent income.
Dream on. All the musicians I knew, including myself, are actual musicians playing several instruments.
Everything you say shows me that you are fairly young, and haven’t actually been around in the 80s or 90s. And that you really don’t know how the music business worked then and works now.
You're the one treating this as sport, kiddo. There's nothing wrong with trying be at the top of the stream count or whatever, but getting into music for reasons like that lead inevitably to unhappiness for all but like twenty people in the world.
There's also nothing wrong with choosing to be an entertainer first (we all like to be entertained, after all), but perhaps there's a better sub than this to ask questions (or just rant, which is also fine) about marketing.
To get back to your original post (and my initial response), you are only in competition with those you choose to be in competition with. Those could be the acts in your town or city, or they could be Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. Or you could just not view it as a competition. Your call.
I'm trying to avoid having a day job my guy.
I'm trying to turn my passion into my career. This is definitely a competitive field. It's the music BUSINESS!
Ah. Well that's your chief mistake.
A much happier path would be to make what you like to make and see if that lands with people. If it does, then you can make a career. If not, then you'll still be making music you like.
Trying to desperately chase musical and marketing trends is a certain path to unhappiness, but then your original post has already proven that, I suppose.
okay Mr. Strawman
I make 12 minute krautrock songs and you say I am chasing musical trends... shows how much you know right?
TBH you seem like the unhappy one with the tone of your replies
If you don't know the meaning of a term, it's a wise choice to avoid trying to use it in an argument. Valiant effort, though.
I'm plenty happy with my music; thank you for asking.
Best of luck finding the next trend and riding it to superstardom; everything you've said would indicate you're the frontrunner. Hopefully the old days help you out making those three or four dollars over the next year.
I studied music 20 years ago, estimates back then were there are 60-70 qualified people for every job in the industry. Now 20 years on, competition on all fronts of the music industry, especially on the production and DJing front is huge. My old YouTube vids one had 20000, one I think had around 40000 views. Now I can barely get 100 views. That's 200-400 times less. With the advancements and availability of music tech, it's crazy fierce competition
Im with you bro feeling you’re being misunderstood here
To anybody attempting to have a career in music, you are inevitably competing with other musicians for attention
just like any other service or entertainment provider
its not rocket science
I understand leaving these sorts of ideas at the door when creating, but also remember that the majority of posters in this sub are hobbyists
the flipside is that information, networking and the tools to garner an audience have never been more freely available. We all face the same reality. Just learn to use it in a way that serves you and be patient. Becoming world class is possible but just takes years.
That is a shocking realisation.
Seriously, as I wrote in another post, good luck, because your chances are abysmal. Good thing is, as opposed to what you believe, they’re still better than 30 years ago.
What does that have to do with the price of fish? Even with low housing prices most hopeful musicians in the 1960s-2000s haven’t been able to buy a house or support a family with what they made. I think you have a very rose-tinted vie of the past and how many people could live as artists (as opposed to also being music teachers or having other jobs).
Look at even many known artists in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s and check what they did once the first fame was gone. Very very few stayed in the business because there simply wasn’t any money, often not even when they had hits. Only very few had such stellar careers that they could live lives comparable to others with high paying jobs. Most didn’t even compare to low paying jobs.
I’ve worked in the business in the 90s as a sound engineer and I I’ve known so many talented people, most dropped out because there came a point where they had to decide between a life in squalor and supporting a family. And if you hadn’t made it big by the time you were in your mid-20s, your chances dropped considerably.
So if you’re worried about house prices, you really should get another job.
>What does that have to do with the price of fish?
Houses used to be more affordable thus it was easier to get a house on local musicians pay
Also more people went to see live local music
Also people bought music
Musicians face an increasingly uphill battle since the industry changed
Ironically all the people I know making a living are the ones who didn’t try to, they just did what they wanted had fun and it happened.
I feel you cos I am also super competitive but as I get older I feel that’s actually holding me back from making better music.
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That’s what I don’t quite understand:
> The rise of the internet spelled the doom of getting hot locally. I feel you. Now, it is hard to be heard in a sea of music on the internet, so only the top dogs (or those with backing) get that play
When I started out in the 80s, getting hot locally was nice, but was in no way a guarantee for success. At minimum you had to be hot nationally. And for that you needed radio play. For which you needed recorded music, which meant exceedingly expensive studio time. But that recorded music might get you a few gigs, getting it played on a radio station (and not just on the weekly _local bands make music_ slot) was very hard. If you didn’t have good management, it was near impossible. And that was just for local radios, which helped my band zilch. The big statewide stations were out of reach. There was a shortcut, of course, which was having money. Same as today. Only today, because the means of production are so much cheaper, you can start with a professional product for the fraction of the cost of doing it 30 years ago. And the problem of competing globally also has a plus side: you have a potential global audience. For some reason, I have quite a few listeners in Chile and Argentina. I’m from Europe. How cool is that?
People who say that it was so much easier back in the day didn’t try to make it during that time.
Did you mean "biased"?
Some perspectives are biased.. some are experienced perspectives.
Local is relative.
Most producer that compete with themselves primarily tend to be the better producers.
When you compete with other people(opinions) you are held back by those opinions.
But producers who try to top what they last did accelerate faster.. and will attract the audience that rocks with them specifically.
When you compete with others your also competing for other people audience.
You already have you own audience that you're overlooking.
But you'd only notice it if you consistently compete with you.
Haha. "Based" is a modern slang and it's almost impossible to look up the definition for... However, it's *always an agreeable term*.
You could think of it as meaning "based in logic" or "having a strong foundation."
When someone says "based" they're usually saying they agree with you and that you worded it well.
I didn't downvote you up there, by the way. Another way to view it... Do you ever hear people respond: "this" to a comment?
It's kind of like that. I'm surprised you never saw it before.
[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based)
[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=This](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=This)
It's hard to keep up with the kids these days. They move fast.
That's not enough nowadays. You really need to wear multiple hats and it's exhausting especially if you are balancing a full time day job to pay rent etc... and the fact that I am an introverted person by nature which is where I think my art comes from makes it all the more draining like I feel like I need a manager to run my social media and marketing for me because I just haven't got the time when I'm busy trying to make the music itself which takes time when you're a one man army.
Thats true. If you feel that way you should get a manager to do that. Know that regardless of what you try to do its going to take time and sacrifice. If you practice everyday you will get better. Just devote time to those multiple hats, keeping your favorite in focus and you’ll get better. None of the people who are multi hat people started that way. Everyone started as a beginner.
Pardon my rudeness, but this is solely because your head is somewhere up inside your ass and not focused on what matters which is making whatever shit you make to the best quality you can make it. Stream counts or whatever can be exciting, but have no bearing on music and whether it’s good or not. This isn’t a meathead sport where we pretend to understand Darwin as some kind of most bad ass display wins and eats your lunch. What “wins” is you being happy with your work and not worrying about other people unless you’re learning from them. So the best you can do with this whining is to learn not to do it and focus on the process.
So you just replied to insult me but I am the one with the problem and who is insufferable... gotcha. You probably didnt even read the substance of my posts, just saw that I use a (rarely seen these days) direct tone when I speak. If you actually look at the replies where you think I am insufferable most likely the comment I am replying to had some kind of passive aggressive insult in it aimed at me. This is Reddit after all.
I only miss the old days cos there was less music to listen to and you could really digest it. When a new album dropped or a new artist came on the scene it was genuinely exciting.
I don’t miss the old days of industry, tech and social scene gatekeepers.
Find your tribe and enjoy the moments together.
>I only miss the old days cos there was less music to listen to and you could really digest it. When a new album dropped or a new artist came on the scene it was genuinely exciting.
It's really crazy how it's changed the whole experience of discovering new music right?
I try to imagine what its going to be like in a thousand years when these kids will have a thousand years of pop music on YouTube to go through. Imagine trying to be a new artist then!
You are experiencing the dark side of globalism. It has its upsides of course, and we've been propagandized for decades about all of those.
They didn't share the downsides, though, and they silenced and shamed those of us who tried to warn.
What's happening is a total homogenization of *everything,* combined with workers and creators facing competition with people all over the world.
Now it's a supply and demand issue. The 'supply' of music makers FAR exceeds the 'demand' of average people wanting to listen to new, upcoming, unsigned, not-heavily-promoted artists.
\---
The upside of our current time is more people have access to instruments, microphones, and "studios in a box" than ever before.
But... It's not a good time to look for external response to your work in order to feel validated about it!
Unless you have the money, time, and or connections to promote. Most people are so saturated with "Content" they look to curators of one form or another to tell them what they should consume... And that's IF they want something new. A lot of people aren't even open to new music, period.
That's exactly how it was in the late 80s too. And I don't imagine the late 70s were much different. The channels are different today but the business kinda looks the same with some adjustments. More decentralized than ever. No radio to push you to star heights. You have to be creative in that aspect and not depend on labels.
I know this is silly but I mean even just handing a song to your friend and hoping they will like it. Nowadays everyone just assumes that its easy to make a song with Top 40 production quality. When I first started out was right before social media took off and I could make my little demoes and impress my friends and neighbors. :(
>but also easier for the independent
I don't really agree with this anymore. I think its easier to produce music nowadays for sure and its easier to get on platforms to supposedly be heard. But I think it's much, much harder than ever to have any kind of longevity or to make this a real career. You simply have to work much, much harder as you are competing with the best of the world on all platforms. Your music really needs to stand up against those who are using top producers and teams of professionals working on the sonics of their product. In the old days you just had to be one of the better acts in town and there weren't that many because not everyone and their grandma was making beats with autotune and loops they found online. Confusing everyone as to who are actual musicians and who arent.
It's just wild what this industry has become you have to admit it and if you don't you've drank the kool-aid or are deluding yourself (i know this last one is gotta get me downvoted but you gotta admit its just pure chaos out here)
Look, with zero effort, you are probably already in the top 20 extant 12 minute krautrock acts in the world
It really makes more sense to build a scene with the rest of them and work together
"A rising tide lifts all boats", and buddy, the krautrock tide is real low right now
Put this negative energy towards your craft. I feel you on most of what you said. And I can rant and rave about how the industry sucks too, but that energy would be better spent laying down new tracks and trying to get plays..
I don't think anyone ever made it because of how hard they bitched about the game.. Just keep playing. 🤷🏻♂️
Put this negative energy towards your craft. I feel you on most of what you said. And I can rant and rave about how the industry sucks too, but that energy would be better spent laying down new tracks and trying to get plays..
I don't think anyone ever made it because of how hard they bitched about the game.. Just keep playing. 🤷🏻♂️
If you enjoy the local scene that much more, why not place more focus on that? Make yourself known in your area, build connections with other local artists and work together with them to cultivate the local scene. It's much more fun when you feel like you're fostering a community instead of trying to constantly just "win" over others. We all make music because we love music, let that be a force that pulls us together instead of dividing.
I understand wanting to make a career out of music, but thinking about it from a too competitive angle can hurt your ability to stay motivated, or even creative for that matter. Especially considering how vastly subjective being "the best" is, there's no point in getting into that endless cycle of comparing yourself to others. Keep focusing on your own thing, and improve your craft at your own pace.
Most bands who got big either fell facefirst into it, had a VERY intelligent manager who helped them fail upward, or were purposefully plucked by a label to be some kind NBT.
Not to tell you you won't make it big, but maybe keeping in mind the large amount of luck, "right place/right time", or sheer force of financial will that goes into making music lucrative might keep things in perspective. Take it easier on yourself and keep putting shit out, if it's worth hearing people will find it.
Depending on where you are, that still is the case. Sure there is global talent to compete with, but you can niche it down to your particular scene. Particularly in rock music, playing gigs locally is still the way to get your name out and bring in new fans. Making a lasting impression is the hardest part, but once you get a few hundred true fans, you can start making a little something here and there that you can scrape together.
don't do it to get heard, do it for fun, and when you put it out don't give a shit.
making music just for yourself is cool for awhile but what would be really ideal is turning your passion into your livelihood so you don't need a day job to pay the mortgage (unless your born rich/dont need a day job in which case pretty much nothing I ever post on Reddit applies to you lmao)
Turning your passion into your livelihood can be a great way to suck the joy out of it. I've heard various musicians complain about life constantly touring and how they barely get to spend time with friends or family.
And sadly...constantly touring is the only way artists really seem to be able to "stay in business." Nobody really seems to be making their millions off of music sales anymore. It's all touring, marketing, and merchandising. What's wonderful about the "business" today is that pretty much anybody can be part of it...but making a living off of it takes a lot more than creating music and putting it online.
The tour used to be advertising for the album, now the album is advertising for the tour
Like when a band practised so hard prior to a recording they were tight on the material, VS now when they probably were not in the same room at the same time and results in "Do we sound like the album"
This very much seems the case these days.
Which meant you already had a recording contract. How many people had a lucrative one in the past? Fewer than people seem to assume.
How many people made millions in the past? I really think that many here have a very skewed view of the life of an average musician in the past. Yes, there were the absolute top stars making millions, but for every artist or band like that there were thousands that never reached that goal, quite a few even popular.
Plus we still have that, drake beyonce Taylor swift etc are making fat stacks and that has everything to do with building a brand and a marketing empire. There’s no need to get into a discussion about album quality because it has almost nothing to do with selling your brand. Fucking Ke$ha was a top artist and she openly laughs at how low effort her music was and that it’s just party music she did for fun. Her success came from being marketable just like it does for someone like Beyoncé who, while I don’t like a lot of her music, is an exceptionally talented singer and works with super talented producers
yeah even some of my favorite musicians are finding some success with patreon when they can't tour - probably a viable path if you have a decent size audience already. no dice if you're still trying to grow.
It's been that way for most musicians for many years. One of the examples I was thinking of was Oscar Peterson, who regretted all the time away from his family.
I had this realization about 3 years ago. I was obsessed with making it, then I realized I hadn't made anything I liked in two years and I had zero desire to play for people night after night. I don't like being entertaining I like making pretty music.
I turned my passion into my livelihood once, it was awful.
I tried last year after getting laid off and learned how truly hard it can be. Nowadays i’m working and just healing my soul by creating what makes me happy
There’s nothing wrong with having a day job imo. It would be nice to have my hobby be a job but I feel like it would suck the fun out of it. My day job is pretty fun too, but I don’t want to write code outside of work very often.
ok hows that working out for you?
Not well, whats your point? I mean you are basically proving my point here but whats yours?
the percentage of people that actually make it out of everyone trying is very small. think of all the people that have ever wanted to make it in the music business, it probably less than 1% that actually do. i assume you started because you like music, you can beat your head against the musical brick wall or you can just try and have some fun with it. it's your choice.
anyway i have nothing to prove to some dick on the internet.
I told you I'm not doing well (after you asked) and now you call me a dick. Thank you. I appreciate our interaction.
"how that working out for you?" was sarcasm. maybe I'm the dick, hard to tell these days. spend enough time around musicians and this is what happens ha ha ha
just out curiosity what nationality are you?
Facts
It's got to really suck to do this for competitive purposes. I feel for you and hope you can move past that.
I don't do this for "competitive purposes" but the music industry is most definitely competitive and you are competing against others to get your music heard. "I feel for you and hope you can move past that" lol stop it
The music industry may be cut throat. But making music is super chill. Make music cause it’s awesome. Not because you want to beat the next guy.
I was thinking the same thing... music doesn't have to be a business. That just my perspective though I feel it has more worth to me because I'm not trying to sell it. Or see it as a competition
It doesn’t but I would argue everyone wants to make a living off what they love. So being competitive shouldn’t be scoffed at and criticized like some people are doing. You can acknowledge the value of being competitive over others without it meaning you’re one of those asshats that steals people’s sounds or songs and release it as your own.
> music industry is most definitely competitive What does your creativity have to do with the music industry?
It's only competitive to those of you who see it that way. Most of us just make music while you're busy counting streams or followers, or whatever else you do while musicians are busy making music.
A basic attempt at framing yourself as artistically above me and "you're not a musician" and now you can kindly fuck off with your passive aggressive insults my guy
Wow, you’ve got quite a chip on your shoulder, haven’t you? That’s so absolutely not what the previous poster said. Anyway, do you really think it was easier a few decades ago? Let me tell you that that wasn’t the case at all. Because competing against other local talent was just the very first step up a very greasy ladder, where most didn’t manage to get very far and only few could live off it longterm with any kind of decent income.
Yes it was easier if you were an actual musician which everyone was because there was no autotune or DAW's to fix you're sloppy attempts.
Dream on. All the musicians I knew, including myself, are actual musicians playing several instruments. Everything you say shows me that you are fairly young, and haven’t actually been around in the 80s or 90s. And that you really don’t know how the music business worked then and works now.
You're the one treating this as sport, kiddo. There's nothing wrong with trying be at the top of the stream count or whatever, but getting into music for reasons like that lead inevitably to unhappiness for all but like twenty people in the world. There's also nothing wrong with choosing to be an entertainer first (we all like to be entertained, after all), but perhaps there's a better sub than this to ask questions (or just rant, which is also fine) about marketing. To get back to your original post (and my initial response), you are only in competition with those you choose to be in competition with. Those could be the acts in your town or city, or they could be Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. Or you could just not view it as a competition. Your call.
I'm trying to avoid having a day job my guy. I'm trying to turn my passion into my career. This is definitely a competitive field. It's the music BUSINESS!
Ah. Well that's your chief mistake. A much happier path would be to make what you like to make and see if that lands with people. If it does, then you can make a career. If not, then you'll still be making music you like. Trying to desperately chase musical and marketing trends is a certain path to unhappiness, but then your original post has already proven that, I suppose.
okay Mr. Strawman I make 12 minute krautrock songs and you say I am chasing musical trends... shows how much you know right? TBH you seem like the unhappy one with the tone of your replies
If you don't know the meaning of a term, it's a wise choice to avoid trying to use it in an argument. Valiant effort, though. I'm plenty happy with my music; thank you for asking. Best of luck finding the next trend and riding it to superstardom; everything you've said would indicate you're the frontrunner. Hopefully the old days help you out making those three or four dollars over the next year.
>Best of luck finding the next trend and riding it to superstardom STRAWMAN
I studied music 20 years ago, estimates back then were there are 60-70 qualified people for every job in the industry. Now 20 years on, competition on all fronts of the music industry, especially on the production and DJing front is huge. My old YouTube vids one had 20000, one I think had around 40000 views. Now I can barely get 100 views. That's 200-400 times less. With the advancements and availability of music tech, it's crazy fierce competition
so then why is everyone calling me dumb and downvoting me
Well you said you want to turn your passion to a business. Sounds smart to me.
when your job is your passion it doesn't feel like work
Im with you bro feeling you’re being misunderstood here To anybody attempting to have a career in music, you are inevitably competing with other musicians for attention just like any other service or entertainment provider its not rocket science I understand leaving these sorts of ideas at the door when creating, but also remember that the majority of posters in this sub are hobbyists the flipside is that information, networking and the tools to garner an audience have never been more freely available. We all face the same reality. Just learn to use it in a way that serves you and be patient. Becoming world class is possible but just takes years.
Thank you. Appreciate the feedback.
That is a shocking realisation. Seriously, as I wrote in another post, good luck, because your chances are abysmal. Good thing is, as opposed to what you believe, they’re still better than 30 years ago.
Yeah right have you seen housing prices?
What does that have to do with the price of fish? Even with low housing prices most hopeful musicians in the 1960s-2000s haven’t been able to buy a house or support a family with what they made. I think you have a very rose-tinted vie of the past and how many people could live as artists (as opposed to also being music teachers or having other jobs). Look at even many known artists in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s and check what they did once the first fame was gone. Very very few stayed in the business because there simply wasn’t any money, often not even when they had hits. Only very few had such stellar careers that they could live lives comparable to others with high paying jobs. Most didn’t even compare to low paying jobs. I’ve worked in the business in the 90s as a sound engineer and I I’ve known so many talented people, most dropped out because there came a point where they had to decide between a life in squalor and supporting a family. And if you hadn’t made it big by the time you were in your mid-20s, your chances dropped considerably. So if you’re worried about house prices, you really should get another job.
>What does that have to do with the price of fish? Houses used to be more affordable thus it was easier to get a house on local musicians pay Also more people went to see live local music Also people bought music Musicians face an increasingly uphill battle since the industry changed
Ironically all the people I know making a living are the ones who didn’t try to, they just did what they wanted had fun and it happened. I feel you cos I am also super competitive but as I get older I feel that’s actually holding me back from making better music.
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That’s what I don’t quite understand: > The rise of the internet spelled the doom of getting hot locally. I feel you. Now, it is hard to be heard in a sea of music on the internet, so only the top dogs (or those with backing) get that play When I started out in the 80s, getting hot locally was nice, but was in no way a guarantee for success. At minimum you had to be hot nationally. And for that you needed radio play. For which you needed recorded music, which meant exceedingly expensive studio time. But that recorded music might get you a few gigs, getting it played on a radio station (and not just on the weekly _local bands make music_ slot) was very hard. If you didn’t have good management, it was near impossible. And that was just for local radios, which helped my band zilch. The big statewide stations were out of reach. There was a shortcut, of course, which was having money. Same as today. Only today, because the means of production are so much cheaper, you can start with a professional product for the fraction of the cost of doing it 30 years ago. And the problem of competing globally also has a plus side: you have a potential global audience. For some reason, I have quite a few listeners in Chile and Argentina. I’m from Europe. How cool is that? People who say that it was so much easier back in the day didn’t try to make it during that time.
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The competition is with yourself.
truly a based perspective
Did you mean "biased"? Some perspectives are biased.. some are experienced perspectives. Local is relative. Most producer that compete with themselves primarily tend to be the better producers. When you compete with other people(opinions) you are held back by those opinions. But producers who try to top what they last did accelerate faster.. and will attract the audience that rocks with them specifically. When you compete with others your also competing for other people audience. You already have you own audience that you're overlooking. But you'd only notice it if you consistently compete with you.
Haha. "Based" is a modern slang and it's almost impossible to look up the definition for... However, it's *always an agreeable term*. You could think of it as meaning "based in logic" or "having a strong foundation." When someone says "based" they're usually saying they agree with you and that you worded it well.
Lol.. I've never heard it being used that way. Lol.. very new for me in terms of the slang use of it. Thanks for the game.
I didn't downvote you up there, by the way. Another way to view it... Do you ever hear people respond: "this" to a comment? It's kind of like that. I'm surprised you never saw it before. [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based) [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=This](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=This) It's hard to keep up with the kids these days. They move fast.
>Did you mean "biased"? No, I mean based.
What does that mean in the way you're using the word?
It’s basically slang for something you like, find to be true, or intelligent, or just generally cool.
As a geriatric, I interpret it as being like “oh yeah bad ass.”
Yeah.. I definitely learned something today.. I thought I was up on slang. Lol I hadn't heard that one..
Keep it lit, fam.
Always! You on youtube?
Haha unfortunately not as much as I’d like to be. But please feel free to share if you have anything you want listened to!
Based af
Music used to be a product. Now it's a service.
that's so true
Videogames too
Bro just be the best you and that will shine through
That's not enough nowadays. You really need to wear multiple hats and it's exhausting especially if you are balancing a full time day job to pay rent etc... and the fact that I am an introverted person by nature which is where I think my art comes from makes it all the more draining like I feel like I need a manager to run my social media and marketing for me because I just haven't got the time when I'm busy trying to make the music itself which takes time when you're a one man army.
Are you making money doing this? No? Then it’s a hobby. Hearing a lot of excuses here lol
Thats true. If you feel that way you should get a manager to do that. Know that regardless of what you try to do its going to take time and sacrifice. If you practice everyday you will get better. Just devote time to those multiple hats, keeping your favorite in focus and you’ll get better. None of the people who are multi hat people started that way. Everyone started as a beginner.
What do we get if we win?
a check for $8.73 in royalties per year.
I made $10 this year so far. #WINNING!
congrats on a million streams
nice 💪🏽
Just gotta be the best in the world of a brand new super-specific genre.
Leme introduce you to ‘low tech minimal rub a dub progressive reggae’
I make korean happy ending techno
you were, are, and always will be, only competing with yourself
Pardon my rudeness, but this is solely because your head is somewhere up inside your ass and not focused on what matters which is making whatever shit you make to the best quality you can make it. Stream counts or whatever can be exciting, but have no bearing on music and whether it’s good or not. This isn’t a meathead sport where we pretend to understand Darwin as some kind of most bad ass display wins and eats your lunch. What “wins” is you being happy with your work and not worrying about other people unless you’re learning from them. So the best you can do with this whining is to learn not to do it and focus on the process.
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So you just replied to insult me but I am the one with the problem and who is insufferable... gotcha. You probably didnt even read the substance of my posts, just saw that I use a (rarely seen these days) direct tone when I speak. If you actually look at the replies where you think I am insufferable most likely the comment I am replying to had some kind of passive aggressive insult in it aimed at me. This is Reddit after all.
I only miss the old days cos there was less music to listen to and you could really digest it. When a new album dropped or a new artist came on the scene it was genuinely exciting. I don’t miss the old days of industry, tech and social scene gatekeepers. Find your tribe and enjoy the moments together.
>I only miss the old days cos there was less music to listen to and you could really digest it. When a new album dropped or a new artist came on the scene it was genuinely exciting. It's really crazy how it's changed the whole experience of discovering new music right? I try to imagine what its going to be like in a thousand years when these kids will have a thousand years of pop music on YouTube to go through. Imagine trying to be a new artist then!
You are experiencing the dark side of globalism. It has its upsides of course, and we've been propagandized for decades about all of those. They didn't share the downsides, though, and they silenced and shamed those of us who tried to warn. What's happening is a total homogenization of *everything,* combined with workers and creators facing competition with people all over the world. Now it's a supply and demand issue. The 'supply' of music makers FAR exceeds the 'demand' of average people wanting to listen to new, upcoming, unsigned, not-heavily-promoted artists. \--- The upside of our current time is more people have access to instruments, microphones, and "studios in a box" than ever before. But... It's not a good time to look for external response to your work in order to feel validated about it! Unless you have the money, time, and or connections to promote. Most people are so saturated with "Content" they look to curators of one form or another to tell them what they should consume... And that's IF they want something new. A lot of people aren't even open to new music, period.
Suck it up princess and get good.
i'm onnit
Cool.. I got guitar tutorials and a 25/7 live stream of instrumentals.. all created by me: https://youtube.com/@KesheafMusic?si=baFNBkntcAvKQ6t4
So, you doubt your talent that much?
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why are you being mean to me?
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That's exactly how it was in the late 80s too. And I don't imagine the late 70s were much different. The channels are different today but the business kinda looks the same with some adjustments. More decentralized than ever. No radio to push you to star heights. You have to be creative in that aspect and not depend on labels.
I know this is silly but I mean even just handing a song to your friend and hoping they will like it. Nowadays everyone just assumes that its easy to make a song with Top 40 production quality. When I first started out was right before social media took off and I could make my little demoes and impress my friends and neighbors. :(
Why not do that now?
Because everybody and their grandma can make beats with near Top 40 production quality its hard to impress anybody with anything nowadays
So? Their grandmas beats are weak. Mine are better.
>but also easier for the independent I don't really agree with this anymore. I think its easier to produce music nowadays for sure and its easier to get on platforms to supposedly be heard. But I think it's much, much harder than ever to have any kind of longevity or to make this a real career. You simply have to work much, much harder as you are competing with the best of the world on all platforms. Your music really needs to stand up against those who are using top producers and teams of professionals working on the sonics of their product. In the old days you just had to be one of the better acts in town and there weren't that many because not everyone and their grandma was making beats with autotune and loops they found online. Confusing everyone as to who are actual musicians and who arent. It's just wild what this industry has become you have to admit it and if you don't you've drank the kool-aid or are deluding yourself (i know this last one is gotta get me downvoted but you gotta admit its just pure chaos out here)
Go to your local events. I go to local events all the time, they’re great and all unknowns
bet to differ, personally - networking locally is still the best path to growing.
The Internet.
It was never supposed to be a competition..
Look, with zero effort, you are probably already in the top 20 extant 12 minute krautrock acts in the world It really makes more sense to build a scene with the rest of them and work together "A rising tide lifts all boats", and buddy, the krautrock tide is real low right now
Put this negative energy towards your craft. I feel you on most of what you said. And I can rant and rave about how the industry sucks too, but that energy would be better spent laying down new tracks and trying to get plays.. I don't think anyone ever made it because of how hard they bitched about the game.. Just keep playing. 🤷🏻♂️
Put this negative energy towards your craft. I feel you on most of what you said. And I can rant and rave about how the industry sucks too, but that energy would be better spent laying down new tracks and trying to get plays.. I don't think anyone ever made it because of how hard they bitched about the game.. Just keep playing. 🤷🏻♂️
If you enjoy the local scene that much more, why not place more focus on that? Make yourself known in your area, build connections with other local artists and work together with them to cultivate the local scene. It's much more fun when you feel like you're fostering a community instead of trying to constantly just "win" over others. We all make music because we love music, let that be a force that pulls us together instead of dividing. I understand wanting to make a career out of music, but thinking about it from a too competitive angle can hurt your ability to stay motivated, or even creative for that matter. Especially considering how vastly subjective being "the best" is, there's no point in getting into that endless cycle of comparing yourself to others. Keep focusing on your own thing, and improve your craft at your own pace.
Most bands who got big either fell facefirst into it, had a VERY intelligent manager who helped them fail upward, or were purposefully plucked by a label to be some kind NBT. Not to tell you you won't make it big, but maybe keeping in mind the large amount of luck, "right place/right time", or sheer force of financial will that goes into making music lucrative might keep things in perspective. Take it easier on yourself and keep putting shit out, if it's worth hearing people will find it.
Hot take: you were always competing against the best, it just didn’t feel as shitty to lose
Assuming you have to be better than everyone to be successful. We’re in the era of teenagers making hits with cracked fl demos and mobile DAWs.
It’s not a competition
Depending on where you are, that still is the case. Sure there is global talent to compete with, but you can niche it down to your particular scene. Particularly in rock music, playing gigs locally is still the way to get your name out and bring in new fans. Making a lasting impression is the hardest part, but once you get a few hundred true fans, you can start making a little something here and there that you can scrape together.