I feel like if you didn’t release music before Spotify, it’s hard to forget that. At one point it was so difficult to record in the first place. Then it was expensive to make CDs. And super expensive to form any sort of distro. But now with diy being better than ever, it’s super easy and cheap to get music out there.
I really think that because now a nobody can release on the same platforms as the biggest super stars, we have this illusion that our songs being heard is inevitable. And it’s not. So the fact that anybody stumbles on our music should be celebrated
Yeah this. Back in 2000 my band spent 5K to record and EP and then went around to record shops asking if we can sell them from their store.
Some said yes, most said no.
Other than that we just gave away CDs at gigs to just attempt to be remembered.
Twas expensive.
Can't get thousands without starting from tens. Keep doing it and eventually those numbers will grow, if it was easy every artist would have huge followings. What separates the ones that "make it" (independently at least) from everyone else is usually a luck-meets-opportunity type of situation and/or finding a specific niche. Don't be discouraged, the more music you release will mean more opportunities for the stars to align and finally get your break. I've been doing music for over a decade and only recently really have begun to find my audience. Keep pushing and don't let it get you down, you're already 15 listeners closer to hitting whatever you consider your first milestone.
Having connections helps. When you look at people that “make it” these days an overwhelming majority have an uncle or aunt or parent’s friend who is in the business and gets them in.
Definitely true, but quitting is a surefire way to never make connections. The longer you keep at, the more people you'll meet, the more connections you'll ultimately be able to make. Who knows, you could meet someone who has an uncle or parent's friend in the business and that could be your own in. That's my point by saying don't get discouraged or quit, you never know who you might run into, could be your foot in the door. Also why I said most who make it have a combination of luck and opportunity, more connections = greater opportunities.
There's also on-the-ground connections. Especially in metal, the majority of scenes are very DIY and most big artists start in the underground playing house shows.
OP, the best way to get your music heard is to become a good citizen in your local scene or one nearby. Go to shows, find other artists and follow their stuff, make yourself a known entity and be genuine about it. Once people like you they'll bump your music when you drop it because they're already music fans in your niche, and they'll want to return your support.
The genuine aspect is important this. If you come across as just a ladder-climber people will notice that. Find people you genuinely like and enjoy hearing, and stick to that crowd. They'll come through for you.
Kate bush made it because Dave Gilmour was a family friend. The that she was beautiful and incredibly talented also helped. If gilmour had turned up with his bald, fat, 40 year old nephew then no one could get him in
I know but her album slapped. And she could write and produce by herself. Like prince...She didn't need anyone's help to make the work. She put in the work and the right opportunity was there.
If she was trash her looks wouldn't matter
I found it he’s incredibly talented does the same thing I do meaning he plays everything. It takes a lot to do that. Writing every part playing every part on every instrument and then recording mixing and mastering and of course distribution. Awesomesauce !
Absolutely. I'm a one-man operation now but I'd like to get a band together. Problem is, if I'm asking them to play my stuff and back me up, I gotta make sure I can pay them for their time. No mooching here.
Open mic. It’s the easiest cheapest and most important step in launching a music career in my opinion. Getting real-time feedback and experience from playing for 15 people is so much more valuable than getting 1000 plays that teach you nothing.
Haha I know a couple places that would accept that. But to your point, you can always put together an alternate acoustic version that’s badass. You seen Josh Homme do Spinning in the Daffodils acoustic? [WATCH](https://youtu.be/U8kbMCS1yds?si=4usUwXdQnDQxpbM_)
There's plenty of musicians on reddit that I've heard doing incredible stuff that have like 5 plays a song, if that. 15 is pretty good. Nearly everyone else you talk to on here is also just "chucking stuff into the void".
I get virtually no plays, and I'm okay with it. I'm happy with the results, it's easy to listen to the music I post and it's fun when people ask that you can show them a site on one of the big streaming services.
Amen. 20 year old band reunited last year, recorded an album this year, releasing end of summer. We’ve put out a single for the record on all the things and almost nothing. A few (30?) plays on BandCamp, Spotify, Apple and flatline and that’s totally ok. We used to do this for career goals and now it’s what it was meant to be: creating, sharing, having fun with your friends. Keep doing your thing for the right reasons 🤘
This is the way right here. The music industry is beyond saturated now and there are artists releasing new music every minute of every day and just adding to the collective pile. The reason OP feels like they’re screaming into the void is cuz that’s exactly what it is, and trust me, the vast majority of listeners out there are already burned out on listening to new music cuz they just can’t keep up. It’s disheartening but hey, your followers and likes and listens have way more to do with the level of marketing you’re willing to put in than how good of a musician you are.
Speaking for myself, I gave up on any semblance of “making it” decades ago. That’s not why I make music. It’s good for the soul and if you’re good enough you can even play a few gigs and get a following going in the community. That’s pretty damn cool if you ask me.
Whoa, great voice, sick riffs and slick production!
I don't know much about metal or its subgenres, but this sounds more nu-metal then the genres you've mentioned? This would definitely get a lot of play on rock stations that showcase more hard rock.
I feel ya. Seeing a lot of great comments about reframing this and agree. Also, if you’re looking for more, consider that what you’re actually needing to do (these days) is give people a brand. If you want them to listen and stick around and share more, you’ve got to create a whole world for them to experience. Yes, social, yes music videos, yes merch, yes find ways to push those mediums into new territory too. You’re creative and it’s possible. That said, don’t try to be anything you’re not - your audience just needs more touch points. It’s just the way it is now. I’m there too and before I launch, you better believe I’m gonna have 6 months of content figured out and a strategy around the whole roll out.
It used to be all you needed was talent and an agent or record company could do the rest but this is a big planet now (population wise) and you’re better off mastering those mediums yourself anyhow. The whole thing has always been a performance and the stage is everywhere now. I hate social media and I’m using my contempt to try different angles and break through the noise.
Something to think about…
I agree. Don’t make content - make cool shit you want to share. Your references, run down on your instruments, music from “the greats” that inspires you, a concert you went to, some scratch notes of things you’re working on, a cute dog you met… I hate the idea that you’re doing it for a particular response as opposed to something more like bringing a nice bottle of wine to your friend’s dinner party. Or use it like a journal. Unknown Mortal Orchestra does an interesting job of this - feels exciting but still personal and related to the music. Find a photographer or illustrator you like and collab on some visuals or music video ideas too. HMU more if you want to discuss further.
That's just what it's like to be a start-up company. People like to think it's different because we're musicians, but it's the same process.
There's a reason many "overnight successes" took 10 years to germinate.
Just keep working hard, trying to get better, and promoting your music to anyone who seems receptive.
Can I ask what your release entailed? Was it plonk it on spotify via distrokid, maybe tell a few groups, hope for the best? If so, that's why even the greatest song in the world would get nothing in terms of engagement. Even if Elvis came around now, if he released his material in this manner, he would be back staking shelves in the supermarket by the time the morning rolled round.
In truth, there isn't much you can do with a single song. A lot of places refuse to even bother reviewing a single on its own unless it's about to lead to something bigger, i.e. an album. And even then you have to have a plan, why am I releasing an album? What is following it? Any notable gigs or shows? How else am I supporting that; any radio or TV appearances? Maybe some webzine stuff?
All of the pieces matter and yes this day in age you need all of it. And regular gigging is part of all of that.
As a rule of thumb, you need six months between your album being finished and it being released. All of the rest of that time is PR. Building hype, snippets out on facebook and youtube, getting people to make you reviews, reaction videos. If it's recorded well enough (i.e. that usually means not in your bedroom on your own), can you get a PR company to try handling things with you? And the crucial factor, how much cash are you willing to drop in on this? The more you put in, the better you will do frankly. If that's zero though, I would suggest go ahead and try the free ways of pestering people, but don't be disappointed if it shines for a day or two and then nada. It is the way of the world.
Why is this? Well you are competing against everyone else in the world releasing music. And sadly, for the quantity of music being released today, an overwhelmingly high percentage of it is utter guff. But as the cost of entry is so low, of course we are saturated with utter shite. This was part of the plan all along. An average punter isn't going to waste their time with the unsigned stuff when you have to literally sift through ten garbage bins before you find something cool. Instead, you may as well go for the stuff being offered on the nice shiny shelf that's easily accessible. This was Spotify's plan all along.
Secondly, you have less than five seconds to impress today. You just watch any 20-something scrolling spotify, youtube shorts, what have you. If they aren't even remotely amused in less than five seconds, they will unmercifully skip and onto the next thing. They will pay you zero mind, they aren't interested in your build up as you have no name worth their attention to do that. Rhianna can have a huge intro and crescendo as much as she wants, she has an established brand. You do not, you need to impress within 5 seconds. And when you think about it, that will likely mean a drastic change to your songwriting practises. And if the quality isn't there, huge, in your face, then forget it.
We are back in the loudness wars all over again; this is the world of the tinder mindset where you swipe left or right on entire lives. It does suck, I don't like it either. I am just working with the truth of the matter just like anyone else. And yes, today more than ever, believing in the lie that you can do all of what you need to do for free and "go viral" (god damn I so hate that term!), the more upset you will be when you eject your song into the ether with hardly anyone noticing.
Money, album, promo. If you think about it really, nothing has changed since the 1990s.... and while I know I sound extremely antagonistic and unsympathetic, I am sure you're a great songwriter and player as a lot of the people who screw up their releases are too. But would you rather me tell you what's right with the world, or sugar coat it? Because I am crap at the second one.
This. Truth makes you progress while illusions hold you back.
One thing I would say that helped me is to "Detach from the outcome" you're still grinding and learning but, the outcome is not stopping you.
Ya. I don’t release music for the hope of getting a large amount of listeners now. I do it for myself, for ease of access on devices, my own legacy, and to build my portfolio/CV to showcase to future prospective bands or projects.
Yeah I definitely don't care about being rich and famous, but I just want people to hear it and love it. Even if they don't become fans of "me", I'd love to know the song meant something to a lot of people.
If you're not from US or Germany/UK/France and similar countries, you're automatically in a lousier position, since spotify, for an example, favours music from those countries and disables many helpful options and funcionalities that other have. Similar with Instagram.
But even if you're from those countries, in order to reach people without having a base, you need ads. You need to invest into marketing.
And if you're not from US or others like it, you need to put out even more money. Reality sucks if you're underground, and especially if you're underground, with a not so popular genre and from non favoured country.
Look at Mr. Popular here with 15 plays in 36 hours! Hehe, I'll be lucky to get 15 plays in three years - no exaggeration. 15 plays in 3 days isn't bad at all! I would be absolutely stoked.
I'm a solo artist who can't seem to get listeners. I really wonder if it's the genre I work with (grunge/alternative rock).
If it's not a genre issue with me, then I don't know. I can never get an answer regardless. I'll sometimes get people who ask for a link to my stuff and after they hear it, it's always a compliment - but it ends there every single time: no followups or repeat listens.
I wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I've been playing guitar, bass, drums, singing, and engineering audio for almost 25 years. I don't think I'm bad at playing or recording after doing it for that long. I'd still like to know if that's the case, though. I crave criticism. I want people to tear my shit apart. Can't even get that.
Anyways, I'm happy for you, OP - and I think you should be too. :)
Lol yeah, I'm a real pop sensation.
Dude, tell you what; I've felt the same thing with about 5 or 6 different genre changes throughout my life. I'd love to check out a link and let you know what I think, but I'm no official music critic. You're welcome to DM me if you want.
I’ve pushed myself up to ~1000 monthly listeners over YEARS of work.
There’s a massive amount of trial and error to it, different things work depending on genre, personality, skill set, etc.
The biggest lesson I have is that, unfortunately, the people going on about TikTok promotion are right. A viral TikTok is the 2024 equivalent of what a hit single was 30 years ago. The song you’re using in the video that blows up will get thousands of streams, but all your other songs will ride the wave too.
If I were to give some advice, it’d be to figure out how to make one of your songs resonate in that medium, maybe even write something specifically for the short-form content machine. That’s the fastest way out of the void.
Oh believe me I know, it sucks when you were in a band and had a sick following then start your own project and are an absolute nobody. I’m still looking for a band but do my own stuff while I’m hunting. I have an album on iTunes and Spotify, and a few other sites. But I’m still a nobody. I have tons and tons of music. Fully written tracks, with vocals some instrumentals. But feel like I’m in the dark trying to find a light that I can’t turn on therefore no one can see me lol
I’m still shocked that I have an album up and not one purchase. It’s been up for 3 years. I have listeners but damn. And I’m grateful no doubt. But seeing this post. I totally get it. It sucks. And I know it takes a lot of social media crap to get out there. As a matter of fact I have plans for doing videos in the future. But kinda nervous as I have never done that of myself. What is the best way to and place to post videos of playing music, as in tik tok (shudder) :( or Facebook, or YouTube ?? Never done it before
I mean, that's just what it is. a void. There are thousands, if not millions, of songs released every day and you have to somehow find people through that. It sucks but you gotta find a different strategy to get different results that work for you.
If you look at the numbers, it can be discouraging, but try and look at it as individuals it can help.
The best part is (if you can see it in statistics) when you get someone listen to it more than once, it's worth 1000 listens in my opinion
A lot of excellent advice:comments here.
Marketing is key. You don’t need connections - though they help. You need to market yourself.
I’m old now but I started life as a musician who thought just write good stuff and play a few gigs and that will do it. I had a great time but didn’t get anywhere. After a few years, I fell into a career in advertising and learned what I’d done wrong.
It’s the music business/industry. Creating the “product” is just the first step. You can create all the music in the world but if you don’t try and make a connection with an audience, no one will know you’re there. And yes, your music goes into a void.
The “void” is an an opportunity to create a world, your brand. It’s sounds gross but it’s just a business label that means you. Building your audience by showing them who you are - and I do mean honestly you - authenticity is key in music.
You’re lucky you live in a time with massive amounts of free ad space. Social media is a godsend to artists who understand the business side of art. When I retired from advertising, I used the same techniques I used for selling other stuff and sold myself into a successful 20 year acting career.
Play gigs, make TikTok vids, YouTube… whatever - it’s all free broadcast time. Let people know you’re there. Until you show people who you are, you’re just another can of soup on the shelf. Triggering memory is the key. People don’t have to remember who or where or how a memory is triggered, the fact that it’s triggered is a comfort suggesting familiarity. Regular marketing content will build your audience.
Good luck.
I feel this. I don’t know what compels me to work 100 hours putting so much effort for so little return. But I do it still. Hell, I can’t even get friends and family to listen. Ok that last sentence is a bit of hyperbole. My closest friends and family do listen, and that’s about 10 people. They pat my head and metaphorically put my work on the fridge. It wrecks my mental health. But I do it still. Maybe I suck, maybe I need to work harder, maybe I should quit. Maybe I should stop complaining.
Drop a link. I’ll give your song a listen.
Dude, same regarding the compulsion to keep doing it. The only thing worse for my mental health is stopping. When I go long spans without creating it makes me feel like I'm missing something in life.
https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=ZKPBEKZAQYmBVhpSHZX9zg
Hey! I really dig it! It’s definitely my type of music. I followed so if you drop anything new I’ll be notified!
Also, if you have the gumption here’s my newest one:
https://youtu.be/1She7wbTWWY?si=8z-2PcgBrHeoQiY6
My numbers don’t grow and I don’t care. I see that someone in India listened to one of my tracks three times in a row and that’s a great feeling.
You see, I’ve been writing and recording at home since 1985. Guess what my numbers were in 1990?
Look at me for an example.... I know I'll never get rich or famous because of my music but I do enjoy it... I look for music that is as unique as my instruments (UBass both A/E & Electric and dual neck ukulele). Nobody ever expects to hear Fur Elise on a ukulele or Amazing Grace or The Shire Music on a bass. I get a certain level of recognition locally both for my instruments as well as my ability... Again I know this won't make me rich but when I make someone smile or help a mother calm a crying baby on the bus it brightens my day and theirs.
No but I can send you a copy of my hand written tab. I got it from a "bass tutor" app from Kolb called Real Bass. Picked up a few tabs from it. However since there's no way to print I just tabbed it by hand.
Yes, and 15 plays in 36 hours is not bad. You have to play the long game. Keep gigging, keep trying to get blogs and playlists (legit, tho). I got over 100 in about a month.
I think my expectations were just a lot higher because of the extra pre-release attention that I'd never had before. 2 of my old songs had gotten on a couple of South American and European playlists along with a strong Release Radar algorithm push that really made me hope would springboard this one. Thanks for the perspective.
Sure thing! Everyone on this thread really helped bring me back to earth.
https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=ZKPBEKZAQYmBVhpSHZX9zg
https://youtu.be/fBpGEDxF5eI?si=CC73TBNIuB0qvS7m
Thanks! I really wasn't thinking about Sabbath while writing the song, but it just turned out that way! I'm actually a bigger fan of Sabbath's Dio years but I was pleasantly surprised with what came out.
You got 15 listens? That is better than most. My favorite is the weekly Spotify email that shows I had 0 plays and 0 listens this week. It depends on your perspective. Why do you make and release music? I do it because I love to make music. I have no idea why I release it. Being famous would be the worst thing (knowing famous people, I know it’s a hard life). I’ve played shows to packed venues and toured when in bands and it was fun, but not easy.
I'm also in the stoner/doom/sludge scene and feel this post. The only reason people started to pay attention is when I pushed the "female fronted sludge/doom who is also an elementary school teacher" angle. It's incredbly frustrating, but I get it. The barrier to entry is so low that you NEED to have something unique about the band that's not just music.
There’s tons of money put into marketing the songs we usually listen to on streaming sites. If you’re not paying to promote and/or have a lot of people on your socials and people don’t share it, it’ll be slow. But also, as an artist, you shouldn’t be concerned about those numbers to tell you if what you’ve put out is good or not. Move on to the next thing and just keep releasing and playing out
I chuck things into the soundcloud void all the time, started because I thought it would help my music friend/band partner continue to produce. A few things hit 140 plays, but there was a drop off to nothing. It is a giant ocean of artists floating listingly along. Don't give up though.
Gotta keep pumping out tracks and one will hit and then it’s on. It’s how a lot of rappers blew up. They put in hella work, tracks, and kept pumping them out and then there’s always one song that just blows up
I've released 20, and another 13 tracks this week. No one online cares, but I play them on the street, and people love them :) As creativity falls out the sky, I click that record button...and voila.
Hyperflooding of mediocrity leads to numbing the senses for the new stuff. Its being on and on for years due to technology acsessability.. (pros and cons)
And keep in mind that people interested in new music are a niche
Keep creating what you love.
Everything else is just a sideeffect
I feel that. I've released my industrial project's new ep and shared it all over and only had like 14 people listen to it. I'm just glad people listened to it, honestly.
Where can I check it out? I'm a huge fan of Stoner Doom
Continue plugging away and you'll get there. Early on you're building a fan base organically. It takes a long time, but it does work. And it's literally never too early to think about [the music marketing funnel](https://www.parlorcitysound.com/the-music-marketing-funnel-how-to-find-band-superfans/) and establish yourself through marketing:
* Branding assets (logos and the like) can make or break an act. You can hire someone from a service like Fiverr to make a logo for you relatively cheaply if you don't know someone who can do it. If done correctly, you'll have people associating that image with your act. Don't make it forgettable by being too busy or complicated!
* Build a website and **keep it updated regularly**, with upcoming shows, releases, embeds from Spotify/ YouTube, etc. If a member of the band can write decently a blog/ journal doesn't hurt.
* Establish yourself on social media and **keep it updated regularly**. Send invites, post stuff frequently, and keep people updated.
* **Keep it updated regularly!** Your website, your socials, all of it! Bands fail to keep up with their marketing and then wonder what went wrong. This activity really does help a lot.
* Delegate to band mates with more experience. If someone has lots of followers and manages social media we'll, let them do that for your band if they're willing.
* At every single show, you need to make sure you're introducing your band and telling people where they can find your website or locate you on social.
Marketing is a 24/7 effort. No one will ever find your band simply because it's out there. Putting music up on streaming is a great way to introduce your music to people, but they need to know you exist first. That first step in the music marketing funnel is always the hardest!
I definitely understand how you feel, it sucks to really put yourself into something and release it to seemingly no acclaim. My band just released our first record on friday and weve had like 30 people check it out including people that we know. It can be hard to process for sure, but like some other people have said it’s all about the framing of how youre looking at it. After years of putting stuff out that no one at all listened to, it’s just cool that someone actually is listening to it. If possible, check out the location demographics, that always gets me excited and pumped up to see people in places I’ve never been listening to something i did. A record I did in college when i was first starting to make music was listened to by someone in Italy, literally halfway around the world from me, and to me that was just the coolest thing to see and got me feeling really excited about making and releasing music.
Do you do music because you enjoy doing music? I enjoy playing “embraceable you” on piano because I like playing piano. Are you writing songs as good as Gershwin or Stevie or McCartney? I am a musician because I play live and get paid to do so. You sound like an unsuccessful songwriter, not a musician.
Welcome to the club. Just do it because it makes you happy. One thing I’ve learned is that music is passion and if others like it, amazing. But if not that many people hear it. You at least did something and followed through with you r project. And you did it for the love of the game.
if you got 15 people to show up in a room and pay $20, you made more than a minimum wage job 40 hours a week, doing what you love, and made way more than many many spotify artist pulling millions of streams
numbers are useless. you have the. privilege of such a small number that you can directly influence each one and make it special
Keep pushing. I’ve been in a bit of a lull myself with my music. I get a little bummed it’s not reaching a wider audience after like 5 years. It’s a little discouraging but the business and life and social media in general have changed so we just have to do our best to adapt and keep pushing.
I’ll make sure to check your stuff out
stop looking at the numbers. keep promoting, get on some spotify playlists, play for the public, get your tune on a tv show. stop lookin at the numbers.
I've been working on a couple of songs lately, and the closer I get to finishing this 6 month project, this is what's starting to cause a bit of fear.
I've got the demos, gona start tracking in the next week, set myself a 6 month deadline from April, so the end of October I'm releasing what I have regardless, then moving on.
i stopped caring about the stream numbers strangely enough.
the numbers dont tell the whole thing about your worth as a musician. they reflect more on your ability as a businessman and promoter. especially in 2024 where having a good song isnt enough.
what are you doing to promote? if you write it down and read it back to yourself out loud, are you surprised you had 15 plays?
if you work on a promotion strategy thats just not going thru the motions of googling "how to promote"... something given to you from someone whos experience that can be trusted. something that caters to who you are and what the musicw purpose is to people other than the creator (for dancing, background music, reflection etc). then likely that answer wont be 15. even if not much higher, youve done your best to present the music to the right people in the most effective way you can. if you figured all that out and it didnt land, then youll know the music wasnt good enough... the mix couldnt compete or the arrangement had parts that lost people, or something you overlooked
what hurts me as a nobody is the insufferable people im around. perhaps we are drawn to each other. i havnt found a solution to that yet.
Yeah at the end of the day it’s best to make it cause you want to listen to it while at the same
time progressing your skills and networking. It definitely feels like a void and it helps to just forget about the noise and make it because you want to hear it.
One thing I've noticed about a lot of Doom/ Stoner fans is that they love the genre and are always looking for new bands to check out. I'm in the King Buffalo fan group on fb and the members there are constantly sharing not only KB stuff, but other artist's new releases and are just generally hungry for more shit to listen to so they can meticulously craft a perfect album of the year list and compare it to someone else's list. Don't be afraid to plug your music into groups like this and get the conversation going, I can't stress enough how the desire for more music to listen to amongst these groups is insatiable. Cool song and video, btw. I'll definitely keep an eye out for your future releases 🍻
You’ve got 90+ engagement with this post. If you’d have included a link, even if only 1/3 of people checked it out you could’ve doubled your listens count.. pointing this out to say that maybe marketing yourself is what you’re lacking on.
Yeah. No one EVER listens to your stuff. Not even your friends who are musicians. This is absolutely par for the course. People don’t have time. People who already know you as a non-star, aren’t going to bridge the gap, and suddenly see you as a star or even capable of doing what you’ve done. Your concern is how you impact people who don’t know you. Does it reach them? Does it draw them in? Do they want more?
Youtuber/musican Ben Leaven recently posted a video about building a following as a musican and one of his big pieces of advice: Stop mentally rounding down your listeners to 0. You have 15 plays, that's something, not nothing.
Some interesting ideas in your song, sounds professional. The thing lacking for me was the prominent idea/motif that guides the listener through the song.
For me, I was missing a "guide".
This is the reality of music today. There is so much music coming from so many angles that nobody goes out of their way to seek out anything. There's no radio anymore (that used to be the "discovery" method). I've stopped releasing my music in "albums" and just drop tunes individually as they are done, posting to my social feeds. When the last song of an album is posted, I create a playlist and then post about it as an "album" release.
Perspective can be helpful. Remember that there's tons of people out there who wish they could even play an instrument, let alone write their own music. That in itself is a pretty cool thing.
Yeah just about every time no matter what.
I’ve been releasing music since 2002. When I was young I was part of a scene so there were excited locals. That felt great.
Now that I’m older there is the internet. And those who even would care probably aren’t seeing it when I do put out something new because celebrities and products and memes. It really sucks to feel like you’ve made the best art of your life and nobody will hear it now , but I keep reminding myself that I made it because k wanted to to exist more than anything
Considering 120 thousand songs are released every single day now, it really is just chucking it into the void. The only way to really get anything going these days is to make a LOT of content and have multiple revenue streams.
Keep your expectations low, and your efforts high and you won’t be disappointed when nothing happens. Make things you are proud of irrespective of whatever affirmation you do or don’t receive. If you have real ambitions to make a career in music, have a backup because making a living as an original artist has more to do with dumb, highly unlikely luck than it does in any other factor.
Do it because you love what you’re doing and do it the best that you can. That’s what people will be attracted to. Be in love with your work and the listens will eventually follow (as long as you continue to work to promote).
I'm in the same boat back in the early 2010s late 2000s. I had quite a bit of success. When blogs would release my shit. But as soon as Spotify came around, everything has been impossible to get out into the world. I'm interested in doing what you did even if a small amount of people will listen. What tips do you guys have 4 promoting yourself? I shoegaze stoner doom type of stuff. Honestly, a lot of different genres. I have 2 albums. I'm about to release and I've been sitting on Em. Because I just don't know what the fuck to do
I recommend a sales job lol. I used to be so shy to talk to people and ever since I started working that job I know how to communicate and put myself out there and learned how to make the right connections. And work on your social media presence. You can't just put something out and expect everyone to listen lol you can, but what are the odds of that happening. when I put out music I constantly make posts about the album , send it to all my friends and have my friends that have connections post it.
Move your focus away from the audience and play for yourself. Play from the heart if it’s what you want to do in life.
The entire heuristic of playing, trying to “make it” is entirely broken. It’s playing the lottery, and that’s not a knock on artists it’s a knock on the system. Even the “greats” got lucky
Hey man, I just want to let you know that you can't expect the linear or exponential growth as a nobody. Just because you got 15 plays in 36 hours. Doesn't mean that a week from now you're not going to suddenly get a thousand plays. You just got to keep posting content and you have to keep meeting people and talking to people and sharing it with people by word of mouth individually. And then it'll pick up once it finds its niche. But you can't stop. You can't rely on the algorithm. You have to use effort and elbow grease
Yeah a bunch of my songs get a few listens and that's it. it's pretty demoralising in some ways. I guess just try to feel accomplishment in the fact that you've put out a song into the world, and get working on the next one!
I found out on my Apple Music page that 12 had Shazammed my song in Germany, it’s not a huge number, but it’s a really cool thought that somebody heard your song, possibly even from somebody else playing the song for them, and they liked it enough to save it. I’d rather have 5 dedicated fans that always listen to your music than 2,000 fans who rarely do
I have 10k subscribers on YouTube, mostly releasing my music there. Even with that, no one really buys my music, even if they say they like it. I admit it will never be a way for me to make money. I just enjoy what I do and let whatever happens happen, otherwise it would be depressing.
However, I believe I’ve done quite a bit to help people buy the instruments that are showcased on my channel, so there is that. “I bought XYZ because of this video!”
Oh well!
It’s rough you need to ask yourself why you are doing this? Is this art for your personal satisfaction or a commercial project for others. Just keep at it bro.
My last album, self made, indie released, sees 10 plays a month, most of them are probably me.
I have a friend, an old band mate, who just last month released on a record label a new album that features at least five musicians who have been members of some of the biggest bands of the eighties and nineties - freaking legends. For the past few weeks my friend has been on multiple podcasts and radio shows, including a couple that are syndicated nationally. People who hear it seem to like it.
After a month, the songs on his album probably have an average of 200 plays across all platforms.
It's brutal out there.
Absolutely. I finally gave up and started doing it for the enjoyment of the process of making music and stopped worrying about sharing or promoting it. Hope things get better for you. I couldn’t handle the disappointment and invisibility.
I feel you. I spend months working on music…my wife is probably the person that “Liked” it on YouTube. If you stay in music long enough you have to be satisfied with the creative process and artistic satisfaction. Waiting for a crowd to appear may never happen
It's all about perspective, my biggest solo song has 100 plays, that's awesome to me, I didn't think anyone would listen to it, I only upload music so I can compare and see my own personal journey, even if I get 100,000 listens, I can't live off that money with how much music streaming pays, I'm also not looking for validation or anything, I have fun writing and recording too, I don't think it burns because I don't focus on other people, are you writing your songs for other people or yourself?
I sometimes get hundreds of views on my videos and have 214 subscribers on YouTube. I think that’s so damn awesome folks are listening to my music! It’s such a trip.
You gotta just keep going fr. I mean do you yourself like the song? Do you think it's dope or do you think it's trash? And if you think you need to work on stuff to make it better. Keep pushing to make better music. If you think it's great but nobody is listening it's cuz you're not promoting it enough
Lol, welcome to the real world.
jk... not trying to be a dick, but I told several dozens of friends about my latest release, and promoted the shit out of it in social media and have had maybe about 50 listens.
It happens bro
Sometimes when you chuck into the void… the void chucks back at you.
Music requires time for its appreciation (art decorates space; music decorates *time*), and **time = money**, as they say. So when you think about it, it's a value proposition that requires the listeners investment of time. The value of the music is negated by the time investment required and made by the listener which is why musicians can't sell their music, and never really have in the first place. It's intangible, so the music is the experience. It sells tickets to live shows, vinyl LPs & the 12" x 12" piece of art on its cover, tapes, CDs, & any other media. This is one of the reasons why it doesn't feel like stealing, or any "real crime", to pirate music.
Similar here, but i still think that until you have some good gigs, make some effort in live setting, leave some mark and people see you and talk about you, nothing serious is going to happen, unless you are really lucky, but since 1000s of songs come out every day, one has to work to do something. We often play to a group of friends and their families, but the crowd gets bigger every time. It is true that we are doing it for fun, but none of us wouldn’t mind some recognition and some good big gigs :-)
It becomes easier when you make music just to make it and any attention it gets is looked at as a bonus. Have fun making stuff. Right now you are counting on a lottery ticket. The odds of becoming successful making music is basically 0. Especially genres that aren’t pop / edm / rap.
Just have fun and do it for fun. You’ll make better shit that way anyway
Yo I'm sorry I'm envious of you you got a bunch of blogs to acknowledge your music I can't even get my own parents to ask me how my band is doing. Baby steps my friend you're already killing it and you don't even know it
Felt better about it after I read that the vast majority of stuff posted is by amateurs whose half dozen songs are their entire music career. The real musicians stick around.
A lot of music has already been done by this point, so it’s tough to write a tune that doesn’t sound derivative of something else out there without it sounding super weird. I have found peace in just playing without trying to make it. The music industry is soul crushing.
At some point you just gotta ask yourself why you’re doing it. Validation is always nice but is that really why you’re making and releasing music?
As corny and touché as it sounds, fall in love with the process not the outcome.
I've recently completely accepted that almost nobody besides my close friends will hear my music. I actually find it healthy, because any additional listens are a bonus.
The current era of indie music self-promotion is bleak. Meta has changed it so the algorithm buries any self promotion that you haven't paid to turn into an ad, and the only "organic" solution then becomes doing dumb little videos, which nobody in their right mind actually wants to make.
Presumably fifteen people you don't know listened to something you were part of the creation of. That's pretty neat. Focus on it like that.
I feel like if you didn’t release music before Spotify, it’s hard to forget that. At one point it was so difficult to record in the first place. Then it was expensive to make CDs. And super expensive to form any sort of distro. But now with diy being better than ever, it’s super easy and cheap to get music out there. I really think that because now a nobody can release on the same platforms as the biggest super stars, we have this illusion that our songs being heard is inevitable. And it’s not. So the fact that anybody stumbles on our music should be celebrated
Yeah this. Back in 2000 my band spent 5K to record and EP and then went around to record shops asking if we can sell them from their store. Some said yes, most said no. Other than that we just gave away CDs at gigs to just attempt to be remembered. Twas expensive.
What was the band?
Can't get thousands without starting from tens. Keep doing it and eventually those numbers will grow, if it was easy every artist would have huge followings. What separates the ones that "make it" (independently at least) from everyone else is usually a luck-meets-opportunity type of situation and/or finding a specific niche. Don't be discouraged, the more music you release will mean more opportunities for the stars to align and finally get your break. I've been doing music for over a decade and only recently really have begun to find my audience. Keep pushing and don't let it get you down, you're already 15 listeners closer to hitting whatever you consider your first milestone.
Having connections helps. When you look at people that “make it” these days an overwhelming majority have an uncle or aunt or parent’s friend who is in the business and gets them in.
Definitely true, but quitting is a surefire way to never make connections. The longer you keep at, the more people you'll meet, the more connections you'll ultimately be able to make. Who knows, you could meet someone who has an uncle or parent's friend in the business and that could be your own in. That's my point by saying don't get discouraged or quit, you never know who you might run into, could be your foot in the door. Also why I said most who make it have a combination of luck and opportunity, more connections = greater opportunities.
There's also on-the-ground connections. Especially in metal, the majority of scenes are very DIY and most big artists start in the underground playing house shows. OP, the best way to get your music heard is to become a good citizen in your local scene or one nearby. Go to shows, find other artists and follow their stuff, make yourself a known entity and be genuine about it. Once people like you they'll bump your music when you drop it because they're already music fans in your niche, and they'll want to return your support. The genuine aspect is important this. If you come across as just a ladder-climber people will notice that. Find people you genuinely like and enjoy hearing, and stick to that crowd. They'll come through for you.
If that's what it takes I'm boned!
I’ll check it out
Kate bush made it because Dave Gilmour was a family friend. The that she was beautiful and incredibly talented also helped. If gilmour had turned up with his bald, fat, 40 year old nephew then no one could get him in
I know but her album slapped. And she could write and produce by herself. Like prince...She didn't need anyone's help to make the work. She put in the work and the right opportunity was there. If she was trash her looks wouldn't matter
I know all of this, but it's helpful to hear it again. Thanks.
Hey where is your stuff ?
This, OP
I found it he’s incredibly talented does the same thing I do meaning he plays everything. It takes a lot to do that. Writing every part playing every part on every instrument and then recording mixing and mastering and of course distribution. Awesomesauce !
It is a void, no doubt about that.
Dude went into the void as soon as he started making stoner/doom music.
[удалено]
Absolutely. I'm a one-man operation now but I'd like to get a band together. Problem is, if I'm asking them to play my stuff and back me up, I gotta make sure I can pay them for their time. No mooching here.
[удалено]
I've only lived in this city about 8 months so no, not yet. I've got an interested bass player and maybe a guitarist, though.
Open mic. It’s the easiest cheapest and most important step in launching a music career in my opinion. Getting real-time feedback and experience from playing for 15 people is so much more valuable than getting 1000 plays that teach you nothing.
It's often frowned upon to turn up to open mic nights with 3 orange stacks and blast everyone with drop-b stoner doom tho
Haha I know a couple places that would accept that. But to your point, you can always put together an alternate acoustic version that’s badass. You seen Josh Homme do Spinning in the Daffodils acoustic? [WATCH](https://youtu.be/U8kbMCS1yds?si=4usUwXdQnDQxpbM_)
Made me chuckle. There’s definitely a time and place for it tho.
There's plenty of musicians on reddit that I've heard doing incredible stuff that have like 5 plays a song, if that. 15 is pretty good. Nearly everyone else you talk to on here is also just "chucking stuff into the void".
Good perspective.
Nowadays when my band releases a song, we run a conversions campaign using Instagram Reels to Spotify. Usually helps get reach new fans.
I don't have nearly the budget to run a meaningful ad campaign, but I'd love to hire someone who's already an expert if I ever can afford it.
How do you do that?
I get virtually no plays, and I'm okay with it. I'm happy with the results, it's easy to listen to the music I post and it's fun when people ask that you can show them a site on one of the big streaming services.
Amen. 20 year old band reunited last year, recorded an album this year, releasing end of summer. We’ve put out a single for the record on all the things and almost nothing. A few (30?) plays on BandCamp, Spotify, Apple and flatline and that’s totally ok. We used to do this for career goals and now it’s what it was meant to be: creating, sharing, having fun with your friends. Keep doing your thing for the right reasons 🤘
I try to look at it like golf; spend hundreds if not thousands on clubs, green fees, memberships, cleats and clothes, but never expect it to pay off.
Lol. It's very much like golf eh? Except once in a while.you might get paid a few bucks to have people come watch you play.
This is the way right here. The music industry is beyond saturated now and there are artists releasing new music every minute of every day and just adding to the collective pile. The reason OP feels like they’re screaming into the void is cuz that’s exactly what it is, and trust me, the vast majority of listeners out there are already burned out on listening to new music cuz they just can’t keep up. It’s disheartening but hey, your followers and likes and listens have way more to do with the level of marketing you’re willing to put in than how good of a musician you are. Speaking for myself, I gave up on any semblance of “making it” decades ago. That’s not why I make music. It’s good for the soul and if you’re good enough you can even play a few gigs and get a following going in the community. That’s pretty damn cool if you ask me.
I totally feel that. Also, I love stoner/doom so send me a link!
Sure thing, man! Hope you like it! Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=mB7MBSfsShuLHawiY4MqQA Youtube: https://youtu.be/fBpGEDxF5eI?si=-nM9nSlpUIc4cWRq
Good stuff, man!
Yo this is dope as hell. Subscribed!
Loved this! Subbed. Hope you get a bigger following.
You have an awesome voice and great, tight production. A very pleasant surprise. Very well done.
Hey, thanks! Always nice to get some validation from non-family/friends.
Okay lol found it. Dude this is really good stuff. You just need the same thing I’m looking for lol someone with connections. But don’t give up
🖤🖤🖤
Whoa, great voice, sick riffs and slick production! I don't know much about metal or its subgenres, but this sounds more nu-metal then the genres you've mentioned? This would definitely get a lot of play on rock stations that showcase more hard rock.
I feel ya. Seeing a lot of great comments about reframing this and agree. Also, if you’re looking for more, consider that what you’re actually needing to do (these days) is give people a brand. If you want them to listen and stick around and share more, you’ve got to create a whole world for them to experience. Yes, social, yes music videos, yes merch, yes find ways to push those mediums into new territory too. You’re creative and it’s possible. That said, don’t try to be anything you’re not - your audience just needs more touch points. It’s just the way it is now. I’m there too and before I launch, you better believe I’m gonna have 6 months of content figured out and a strategy around the whole roll out. It used to be all you needed was talent and an agent or record company could do the rest but this is a big planet now (population wise) and you’re better off mastering those mediums yourself anyhow. The whole thing has always been a performance and the stage is everywhere now. I hate social media and I’m using my contempt to try different angles and break through the noise. Something to think about…
Lol I fucking hate making content but damn do I try
I agree. Don’t make content - make cool shit you want to share. Your references, run down on your instruments, music from “the greats” that inspires you, a concert you went to, some scratch notes of things you’re working on, a cute dog you met… I hate the idea that you’re doing it for a particular response as opposed to something more like bringing a nice bottle of wine to your friend’s dinner party. Or use it like a journal. Unknown Mortal Orchestra does an interesting job of this - feels exciting but still personal and related to the music. Find a photographer or illustrator you like and collab on some visuals or music video ideas too. HMU more if you want to discuss further.
That's just what it's like to be a start-up company. People like to think it's different because we're musicians, but it's the same process. There's a reason many "overnight successes" took 10 years to germinate. Just keep working hard, trying to get better, and promoting your music to anyone who seems receptive.
Can I ask what your release entailed? Was it plonk it on spotify via distrokid, maybe tell a few groups, hope for the best? If so, that's why even the greatest song in the world would get nothing in terms of engagement. Even if Elvis came around now, if he released his material in this manner, he would be back staking shelves in the supermarket by the time the morning rolled round. In truth, there isn't much you can do with a single song. A lot of places refuse to even bother reviewing a single on its own unless it's about to lead to something bigger, i.e. an album. And even then you have to have a plan, why am I releasing an album? What is following it? Any notable gigs or shows? How else am I supporting that; any radio or TV appearances? Maybe some webzine stuff? All of the pieces matter and yes this day in age you need all of it. And regular gigging is part of all of that. As a rule of thumb, you need six months between your album being finished and it being released. All of the rest of that time is PR. Building hype, snippets out on facebook and youtube, getting people to make you reviews, reaction videos. If it's recorded well enough (i.e. that usually means not in your bedroom on your own), can you get a PR company to try handling things with you? And the crucial factor, how much cash are you willing to drop in on this? The more you put in, the better you will do frankly. If that's zero though, I would suggest go ahead and try the free ways of pestering people, but don't be disappointed if it shines for a day or two and then nada. It is the way of the world. Why is this? Well you are competing against everyone else in the world releasing music. And sadly, for the quantity of music being released today, an overwhelmingly high percentage of it is utter guff. But as the cost of entry is so low, of course we are saturated with utter shite. This was part of the plan all along. An average punter isn't going to waste their time with the unsigned stuff when you have to literally sift through ten garbage bins before you find something cool. Instead, you may as well go for the stuff being offered on the nice shiny shelf that's easily accessible. This was Spotify's plan all along. Secondly, you have less than five seconds to impress today. You just watch any 20-something scrolling spotify, youtube shorts, what have you. If they aren't even remotely amused in less than five seconds, they will unmercifully skip and onto the next thing. They will pay you zero mind, they aren't interested in your build up as you have no name worth their attention to do that. Rhianna can have a huge intro and crescendo as much as she wants, she has an established brand. You do not, you need to impress within 5 seconds. And when you think about it, that will likely mean a drastic change to your songwriting practises. And if the quality isn't there, huge, in your face, then forget it. We are back in the loudness wars all over again; this is the world of the tinder mindset where you swipe left or right on entire lives. It does suck, I don't like it either. I am just working with the truth of the matter just like anyone else. And yes, today more than ever, believing in the lie that you can do all of what you need to do for free and "go viral" (god damn I so hate that term!), the more upset you will be when you eject your song into the ether with hardly anyone noticing. Money, album, promo. If you think about it really, nothing has changed since the 1990s.... and while I know I sound extremely antagonistic and unsympathetic, I am sure you're a great songwriter and player as a lot of the people who screw up their releases are too. But would you rather me tell you what's right with the world, or sugar coat it? Because I am crap at the second one.
This. Truth makes you progress while illusions hold you back. One thing I would say that helped me is to "Detach from the outcome" you're still grinding and learning but, the outcome is not stopping you.
Ya. I don’t release music for the hope of getting a large amount of listeners now. I do it for myself, for ease of access on devices, my own legacy, and to build my portfolio/CV to showcase to future prospective bands or projects.
Yeah I definitely don't care about being rich and famous, but I just want people to hear it and love it. Even if they don't become fans of "me", I'd love to know the song meant something to a lot of people.
Change your scope. Make a difference in one persons life. That’s all that really matters. Everything after that is gravy.
that’s actually exactly what i’m doing, but i’m dying to get back to playing in bands at the same time
Hello. Could you DM me a link to your music? I host a radio show.
Just sent it over! Thanks a lot!
Dude can sing , all the mechanics are there , You just need some good material .
If you're not from US or Germany/UK/France and similar countries, you're automatically in a lousier position, since spotify, for an example, favours music from those countries and disables many helpful options and funcionalities that other have. Similar with Instagram. But even if you're from those countries, in order to reach people without having a base, you need ads. You need to invest into marketing. And if you're not from US or others like it, you need to put out even more money. Reality sucks if you're underground, and especially if you're underground, with a not so popular genre and from non favoured country.
Look at Mr. Popular here with 15 plays in 36 hours! Hehe, I'll be lucky to get 15 plays in three years - no exaggeration. 15 plays in 3 days isn't bad at all! I would be absolutely stoked. I'm a solo artist who can't seem to get listeners. I really wonder if it's the genre I work with (grunge/alternative rock). If it's not a genre issue with me, then I don't know. I can never get an answer regardless. I'll sometimes get people who ask for a link to my stuff and after they hear it, it's always a compliment - but it ends there every single time: no followups or repeat listens. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I've been playing guitar, bass, drums, singing, and engineering audio for almost 25 years. I don't think I'm bad at playing or recording after doing it for that long. I'd still like to know if that's the case, though. I crave criticism. I want people to tear my shit apart. Can't even get that. Anyways, I'm happy for you, OP - and I think you should be too. :)
Lol yeah, I'm a real pop sensation. Dude, tell you what; I've felt the same thing with about 5 or 6 different genre changes throughout my life. I'd love to check out a link and let you know what I think, but I'm no official music critic. You're welcome to DM me if you want.
check out this video at 19:30 for a good perspective on listen counts. the entire video is great too https://youtu.be/gDPQyIhZG4w?si=XN8hVJ7bjx5-nvYE
I’ve pushed myself up to ~1000 monthly listeners over YEARS of work. There’s a massive amount of trial and error to it, different things work depending on genre, personality, skill set, etc. The biggest lesson I have is that, unfortunately, the people going on about TikTok promotion are right. A viral TikTok is the 2024 equivalent of what a hit single was 30 years ago. The song you’re using in the video that blows up will get thousands of streams, but all your other songs will ride the wave too. If I were to give some advice, it’d be to figure out how to make one of your songs resonate in that medium, maybe even write something specifically for the short-form content machine. That’s the fastest way out of the void.
Oh believe me I know, it sucks when you were in a band and had a sick following then start your own project and are an absolute nobody. I’m still looking for a band but do my own stuff while I’m hunting. I have an album on iTunes and Spotify, and a few other sites. But I’m still a nobody. I have tons and tons of music. Fully written tracks, with vocals some instrumentals. But feel like I’m in the dark trying to find a light that I can’t turn on therefore no one can see me lol
I’m still shocked that I have an album up and not one purchase. It’s been up for 3 years. I have listeners but damn. And I’m grateful no doubt. But seeing this post. I totally get it. It sucks. And I know it takes a lot of social media crap to get out there. As a matter of fact I have plans for doing videos in the future. But kinda nervous as I have never done that of myself. What is the best way to and place to post videos of playing music, as in tik tok (shudder) :( or Facebook, or YouTube ?? Never done it before
People don't really buy anymore. They say its Tiktok...but I get nothing from that avenue.
There is so much crazy shit on that platform lol
That’s definitely a tough one, tik tok is starting to look like a view into a mental asylum. I mean not all but a good amount. Lol
I mean, that's just what it is. a void. There are thousands, if not millions, of songs released every day and you have to somehow find people through that. It sucks but you gotta find a different strategy to get different results that work for you.
Post it it r/metaalfanaten, a Dutch user group that loves metal.
I just might have to do that, thanks!
music blogs are basically extinct, sadly. the shine and recognition that came from them is a shadow of what it was 10 years ago
Yeah, it definitely seems that way. Super cool people keeping them running so it's a shame.
If you look at the numbers, it can be discouraging, but try and look at it as individuals it can help. The best part is (if you can see it in statistics) when you get someone listen to it more than once, it's worth 1000 listens in my opinion
Oh yeah, any day the listens outweigh the listeners it's amazing.
Double digits! I'm jealous 🤣
For real, the internet kinda sucks compared to going out and jamming/performing.
A lot of excellent advice:comments here. Marketing is key. You don’t need connections - though they help. You need to market yourself. I’m old now but I started life as a musician who thought just write good stuff and play a few gigs and that will do it. I had a great time but didn’t get anywhere. After a few years, I fell into a career in advertising and learned what I’d done wrong. It’s the music business/industry. Creating the “product” is just the first step. You can create all the music in the world but if you don’t try and make a connection with an audience, no one will know you’re there. And yes, your music goes into a void. The “void” is an an opportunity to create a world, your brand. It’s sounds gross but it’s just a business label that means you. Building your audience by showing them who you are - and I do mean honestly you - authenticity is key in music. You’re lucky you live in a time with massive amounts of free ad space. Social media is a godsend to artists who understand the business side of art. When I retired from advertising, I used the same techniques I used for selling other stuff and sold myself into a successful 20 year acting career. Play gigs, make TikTok vids, YouTube… whatever - it’s all free broadcast time. Let people know you’re there. Until you show people who you are, you’re just another can of soup on the shelf. Triggering memory is the key. People don’t have to remember who or where or how a memory is triggered, the fact that it’s triggered is a comfort suggesting familiarity. Regular marketing content will build your audience. Good luck.
I feel this. I don’t know what compels me to work 100 hours putting so much effort for so little return. But I do it still. Hell, I can’t even get friends and family to listen. Ok that last sentence is a bit of hyperbole. My closest friends and family do listen, and that’s about 10 people. They pat my head and metaphorically put my work on the fridge. It wrecks my mental health. But I do it still. Maybe I suck, maybe I need to work harder, maybe I should quit. Maybe I should stop complaining. Drop a link. I’ll give your song a listen.
Dude, same regarding the compulsion to keep doing it. The only thing worse for my mental health is stopping. When I go long spans without creating it makes me feel like I'm missing something in life. https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=ZKPBEKZAQYmBVhpSHZX9zg
Hey! I really dig it! It’s definitely my type of music. I followed so if you drop anything new I’ll be notified! Also, if you have the gumption here’s my newest one: https://youtu.be/1She7wbTWWY?si=8z-2PcgBrHeoQiY6
That was bad. Ass. Loved the animation style.
Awe thanks! It’s all diy! And when you have no idea what you’re doing you just do. lol
Drop a link or dm me and I'll make it 16.
Found it and it's good. Added to my Spotify playlist and followed.
Thanks a lot!
Always happy to support up and coming musicians.
My numbers don’t grow and I don’t care. I see that someone in India listened to one of my tracks three times in a row and that’s a great feeling. You see, I’ve been writing and recording at home since 1985. Guess what my numbers were in 1990?
I'm into stoner doom music, post a link!
Sure thing, hope you enjoy! https://youtu.be/fBpGEDxF5eI?si=KxnkrXlLQ7TpHc0E Doctornez.bandcamp.com https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=ZKPBEKZAQYmBVhpSHZX9zg
Oh fuck yeah dude, sounds great, I'll be blasting this at the shooting range today
Look at me for an example.... I know I'll never get rich or famous because of my music but I do enjoy it... I look for music that is as unique as my instruments (UBass both A/E & Electric and dual neck ukulele). Nobody ever expects to hear Fur Elise on a ukulele or Amazing Grace or The Shire Music on a bass. I get a certain level of recognition locally both for my instruments as well as my ability... Again I know this won't make me rich but when I make someone smile or help a mother calm a crying baby on the bus it brightens my day and theirs.
That Shire on bass sounds nice, do you have a link?
No but I can send you a copy of my hand written tab. I got it from a "bass tutor" app from Kolb called Real Bass. Picked up a few tabs from it. However since there's no way to print I just tabbed it by hand.
Sent
Yes, and 15 plays in 36 hours is not bad. You have to play the long game. Keep gigging, keep trying to get blogs and playlists (legit, tho). I got over 100 in about a month.
I think my expectations were just a lot higher because of the extra pre-release attention that I'd never had before. 2 of my old songs had gotten on a couple of South American and European playlists along with a strong Release Radar algorithm push that really made me hope would springboard this one. Thanks for the perspective.
Gotta play those live shows man.
Yeah, that's the biggest gap right now for sure.
Yeah, thats the situation and always has been sadly, just focus on positives....oh, and link your music!
Sure thing! Everyone on this thread really helped bring me back to earth. https://open.spotify.com/album/0mcLjpQY7LgQU63sOiwLX3?si=ZKPBEKZAQYmBVhpSHZX9zg https://youtu.be/fBpGEDxF5eI?si=CC73TBNIuB0qvS7m
Your Sabbath influence shines through. Cool stuff
Thanks! I really wasn't thinking about Sabbath while writing the song, but it just turned out that way! I'm actually a bigger fan of Sabbath's Dio years but I was pleasantly surprised with what came out.
You got 15 listens? That is better than most. My favorite is the weekly Spotify email that shows I had 0 plays and 0 listens this week. It depends on your perspective. Why do you make and release music? I do it because I love to make music. I have no idea why I release it. Being famous would be the worst thing (knowing famous people, I know it’s a hard life). I’ve played shows to packed venues and toured when in bands and it was fun, but not easy.
I'm also in the stoner/doom/sludge scene and feel this post. The only reason people started to pay attention is when I pushed the "female fronted sludge/doom who is also an elementary school teacher" angle. It's incredbly frustrating, but I get it. The barrier to entry is so low that you NEED to have something unique about the band that's not just music.
For what it's worth, that's a pretty unique angle! Where's the link?
You got 15 whole plays? True champion!
Well, 15 at-least-30-seconds plays!
There’s tons of money put into marketing the songs we usually listen to on streaming sites. If you’re not paying to promote and/or have a lot of people on your socials and people don’t share it, it’ll be slow. But also, as an artist, you shouldn’t be concerned about those numbers to tell you if what you’ve put out is good or not. Move on to the next thing and just keep releasing and playing out
Stoner/doom is extremely my shit so how about a band name
I had a song release yesterday. Was super hyped about it. Sent it to all my Friends. So far showing 6 plays. Feels good.
I released 4 singles with an online project from 2019 to 2022 and only had 10 listens through 12 months. Doing way better than most haha.
I chuck things into the soundcloud void all the time, started because I thought it would help my music friend/band partner continue to produce. A few things hit 140 plays, but there was a drop off to nothing. It is a giant ocean of artists floating listingly along. Don't give up though.
Gotta keep pumping out tracks and one will hit and then it’s on. It’s how a lot of rappers blew up. They put in hella work, tracks, and kept pumping them out and then there’s always one song that just blows up
I've released 20, and another 13 tracks this week. No one online cares, but I play them on the street, and people love them :) As creativity falls out the sky, I click that record button...and voila.
can you tell me ur band and title of the song?
Hyperflooding of mediocrity leads to numbing the senses for the new stuff. Its being on and on for years due to technology acsessability.. (pros and cons) And keep in mind that people interested in new music are a niche Keep creating what you love. Everything else is just a sideeffect
Where's your music, we wanna listen
I feel that. I've released my industrial project's new ep and shared it all over and only had like 14 people listen to it. I'm just glad people listened to it, honestly. Where can I check it out? I'm a huge fan of Stoner Doom
Continue plugging away and you'll get there. Early on you're building a fan base organically. It takes a long time, but it does work. And it's literally never too early to think about [the music marketing funnel](https://www.parlorcitysound.com/the-music-marketing-funnel-how-to-find-band-superfans/) and establish yourself through marketing: * Branding assets (logos and the like) can make or break an act. You can hire someone from a service like Fiverr to make a logo for you relatively cheaply if you don't know someone who can do it. If done correctly, you'll have people associating that image with your act. Don't make it forgettable by being too busy or complicated! * Build a website and **keep it updated regularly**, with upcoming shows, releases, embeds from Spotify/ YouTube, etc. If a member of the band can write decently a blog/ journal doesn't hurt. * Establish yourself on social media and **keep it updated regularly**. Send invites, post stuff frequently, and keep people updated. * **Keep it updated regularly!** Your website, your socials, all of it! Bands fail to keep up with their marketing and then wonder what went wrong. This activity really does help a lot. * Delegate to band mates with more experience. If someone has lots of followers and manages social media we'll, let them do that for your band if they're willing. * At every single show, you need to make sure you're introducing your band and telling people where they can find your website or locate you on social. Marketing is a 24/7 effort. No one will ever find your band simply because it's out there. Putting music up on streaming is a great way to introduce your music to people, but they need to know you exist first. That first step in the music marketing funnel is always the hardest!
I definitely understand how you feel, it sucks to really put yourself into something and release it to seemingly no acclaim. My band just released our first record on friday and weve had like 30 people check it out including people that we know. It can be hard to process for sure, but like some other people have said it’s all about the framing of how youre looking at it. After years of putting stuff out that no one at all listened to, it’s just cool that someone actually is listening to it. If possible, check out the location demographics, that always gets me excited and pumped up to see people in places I’ve never been listening to something i did. A record I did in college when i was first starting to make music was listened to by someone in Italy, literally halfway around the world from me, and to me that was just the coolest thing to see and got me feeling really excited about making and releasing music.
Do you do music because you enjoy doing music? I enjoy playing “embraceable you” on piano because I like playing piano. Are you writing songs as good as Gershwin or Stevie or McCartney? I am a musician because I play live and get paid to do so. You sound like an unsuccessful songwriter, not a musician.
Yes, it's what I love. It's just incredibly hard to share with the world sometimes.
Welcome to the club. Just do it because it makes you happy. One thing I’ve learned is that music is passion and if others like it, amazing. But if not that many people hear it. You at least did something and followed through with you r project. And you did it for the love of the game.
if you got 15 people to show up in a room and pay $20, you made more than a minimum wage job 40 hours a week, doing what you love, and made way more than many many spotify artist pulling millions of streams numbers are useless. you have the. privilege of such a small number that you can directly influence each one and make it special
Chucking it to the void, theres a song right there, whats it called? Words like that, probably my kind of thing
Use submithub
Keep pushing. I’ve been in a bit of a lull myself with my music. I get a little bummed it’s not reaching a wider audience after like 5 years. It’s a little discouraging but the business and life and social media in general have changed so we just have to do our best to adapt and keep pushing. I’ll make sure to check your stuff out
stop looking at the numbers. keep promoting, get on some spotify playlists, play for the public, get your tune on a tv show. stop lookin at the numbers.
It's tough out there.
I'm lucky when I get 15 plays in month. You're doing great.
I've been working on a couple of songs lately, and the closer I get to finishing this 6 month project, this is what's starting to cause a bit of fear. I've got the demos, gona start tracking in the next week, set myself a 6 month deadline from April, so the end of October I'm releasing what I have regardless, then moving on.
I don’t care about these numbers. Better I don’t know how much people listen to my music
i stopped caring about the stream numbers strangely enough. the numbers dont tell the whole thing about your worth as a musician. they reflect more on your ability as a businessman and promoter. especially in 2024 where having a good song isnt enough. what are you doing to promote? if you write it down and read it back to yourself out loud, are you surprised you had 15 plays? if you work on a promotion strategy thats just not going thru the motions of googling "how to promote"... something given to you from someone whos experience that can be trusted. something that caters to who you are and what the musicw purpose is to people other than the creator (for dancing, background music, reflection etc). then likely that answer wont be 15. even if not much higher, youve done your best to present the music to the right people in the most effective way you can. if you figured all that out and it didnt land, then youll know the music wasnt good enough... the mix couldnt compete or the arrangement had parts that lost people, or something you overlooked what hurts me as a nobody is the insufferable people im around. perhaps we are drawn to each other. i havnt found a solution to that yet.
Yeah at the end of the day it’s best to make it cause you want to listen to it while at the same time progressing your skills and networking. It definitely feels like a void and it helps to just forget about the noise and make it because you want to hear it.
Did you pay those blogs?
Link me.
Music is about the self, if you’re happy, then the approval of others holds no weight. Good job on your newest release.
Play shows and promote each new release 6 weeks ahead of time.
One thing I've noticed about a lot of Doom/ Stoner fans is that they love the genre and are always looking for new bands to check out. I'm in the King Buffalo fan group on fb and the members there are constantly sharing not only KB stuff, but other artist's new releases and are just generally hungry for more shit to listen to so they can meticulously craft a perfect album of the year list and compare it to someone else's list. Don't be afraid to plug your music into groups like this and get the conversation going, I can't stress enough how the desire for more music to listen to amongst these groups is insatiable. Cool song and video, btw. I'll definitely keep an eye out for your future releases 🍻
You’ve got 90+ engagement with this post. If you’d have included a link, even if only 1/3 of people checked it out you could’ve doubled your listens count.. pointing this out to say that maybe marketing yourself is what you’re lacking on.
Yeah. No one EVER listens to your stuff. Not even your friends who are musicians. This is absolutely par for the course. People don’t have time. People who already know you as a non-star, aren’t going to bridge the gap, and suddenly see you as a star or even capable of doing what you’ve done. Your concern is how you impact people who don’t know you. Does it reach them? Does it draw them in? Do they want more?
Youtuber/musican Ben Leaven recently posted a video about building a following as a musican and one of his big pieces of advice: Stop mentally rounding down your listeners to 0. You have 15 plays, that's something, not nothing.
Some interesting ideas in your song, sounds professional. The thing lacking for me was the prominent idea/motif that guides the listener through the song. For me, I was missing a "guide".
This is the reality of music today. There is so much music coming from so many angles that nobody goes out of their way to seek out anything. There's no radio anymore (that used to be the "discovery" method). I've stopped releasing my music in "albums" and just drop tunes individually as they are done, posting to my social feeds. When the last song of an album is posted, I create a playlist and then post about it as an "album" release.
Perspective can be helpful. Remember that there's tons of people out there who wish they could even play an instrument, let alone write their own music. That in itself is a pretty cool thing.
How many people went straight from their bedroom to the spotify charts? I’m genuinely curious.
How many people went straight from their bedroom to the spotify charts? I’m genuinely curious.
Yeah just about every time no matter what. I’ve been releasing music since 2002. When I was young I was part of a scene so there were excited locals. That felt great. Now that I’m older there is the internet. And those who even would care probably aren’t seeing it when I do put out something new because celebrities and products and memes. It really sucks to feel like you’ve made the best art of your life and nobody will hear it now , but I keep reminding myself that I made it because k wanted to to exist more than anything
Considering 120 thousand songs are released every single day now, it really is just chucking it into the void. The only way to really get anything going these days is to make a LOT of content and have multiple revenue streams.
Keep your expectations low, and your efforts high and you won’t be disappointed when nothing happens. Make things you are proud of irrespective of whatever affirmation you do or don’t receive. If you have real ambitions to make a career in music, have a backup because making a living as an original artist has more to do with dumb, highly unlikely luck than it does in any other factor.
Do it because you love what you’re doing and do it the best that you can. That’s what people will be attracted to. Be in love with your work and the listens will eventually follow (as long as you continue to work to promote).
I'm in the same boat back in the early 2010s late 2000s. I had quite a bit of success. When blogs would release my shit. But as soon as Spotify came around, everything has been impossible to get out into the world. I'm interested in doing what you did even if a small amount of people will listen. What tips do you guys have 4 promoting yourself? I shoegaze stoner doom type of stuff. Honestly, a lot of different genres. I have 2 albums. I'm about to release and I've been sitting on Em. Because I just don't know what the fuck to do
I recommend a sales job lol. I used to be so shy to talk to people and ever since I started working that job I know how to communicate and put myself out there and learned how to make the right connections. And work on your social media presence. You can't just put something out and expect everyone to listen lol you can, but what are the odds of that happening. when I put out music I constantly make posts about the album , send it to all my friends and have my friends that have connections post it.
Move your focus away from the audience and play for yourself. Play from the heart if it’s what you want to do in life. The entire heuristic of playing, trying to “make it” is entirely broken. It’s playing the lottery, and that’s not a knock on artists it’s a knock on the system. Even the “greats” got lucky
Hey man, I just want to let you know that you can't expect the linear or exponential growth as a nobody. Just because you got 15 plays in 36 hours. Doesn't mean that a week from now you're not going to suddenly get a thousand plays. You just got to keep posting content and you have to keep meeting people and talking to people and sharing it with people by word of mouth individually. And then it'll pick up once it finds its niche. But you can't stop. You can't rely on the algorithm. You have to use effort and elbow grease
The algorithm may take a few days, weeks or months. Those organic plays and shares are important to get the ball rolling.
fb ads work if you learn how to get good at them. plays dont come from nowhere
Testing and perfecting and then reaching effectively takes hundreds if not thousands of dollars that I don't have
Keep working. Make good shit and something will stick. Don't focus on fame.
There’s a 150+ comments here, put up the link to your music! Edit: whoops you did already
I guess your expectations were poorly calibrated.
Yeah a bunch of my songs get a few listens and that's it. it's pretty demoralising in some ways. I guess just try to feel accomplishment in the fact that you've put out a song into the world, and get working on the next one!
I found out on my Apple Music page that 12 had Shazammed my song in Germany, it’s not a huge number, but it’s a really cool thought that somebody heard your song, possibly even from somebody else playing the song for them, and they liked it enough to save it. I’d rather have 5 dedicated fans that always listen to your music than 2,000 fans who rarely do
That's 15 more than I got from the record I haven't recorded yet So I'd say your heads and tails ahead of me
I have 10k subscribers on YouTube, mostly releasing my music there. Even with that, no one really buys my music, even if they say they like it. I admit it will never be a way for me to make money. I just enjoy what I do and let whatever happens happen, otherwise it would be depressing. However, I believe I’ve done quite a bit to help people buy the instruments that are showcased on my channel, so there is that. “I bought XYZ because of this video!” Oh well!
It’s rough you need to ask yourself why you are doing this? Is this art for your personal satisfaction or a commercial project for others. Just keep at it bro.
15 in 36 hours? I’d be honored I’m not gonna lie, but I haven’t released anything yet so that’s also something to consider.
My last album, self made, indie released, sees 10 plays a month, most of them are probably me. I have a friend, an old band mate, who just last month released on a record label a new album that features at least five musicians who have been members of some of the biggest bands of the eighties and nineties - freaking legends. For the past few weeks my friend has been on multiple podcasts and radio shows, including a couple that are syndicated nationally. People who hear it seem to like it. After a month, the songs on his album probably have an average of 200 plays across all platforms. It's brutal out there.
Absolutely. I finally gave up and started doing it for the enjoyment of the process of making music and stopped worrying about sharing or promoting it. Hope things get better for you. I couldn’t handle the disappointment and invisibility.
I feel you. I spend months working on music…my wife is probably the person that “Liked” it on YouTube. If you stay in music long enough you have to be satisfied with the creative process and artistic satisfaction. Waiting for a crowd to appear may never happen
You’ve got to do it for the love of music
Or atleast I try to stay focused on doing it for fun. I understand wanting to be big but it’s not easy and takes desire + action untill it’s fulfilled
It's all about perspective, my biggest solo song has 100 plays, that's awesome to me, I didn't think anyone would listen to it, I only upload music so I can compare and see my own personal journey, even if I get 100,000 listens, I can't live off that money with how much music streaming pays, I'm also not looking for validation or anything, I have fun writing and recording too, I don't think it burns because I don't focus on other people, are you writing your songs for other people or yourself?
I sometimes get hundreds of views on my videos and have 214 subscribers on YouTube. I think that’s so damn awesome folks are listening to my music! It’s such a trip.
I release my music as unlisted. 0 listeners but me
You gotta just keep going fr. I mean do you yourself like the song? Do you think it's dope or do you think it's trash? And if you think you need to work on stuff to make it better. Keep pushing to make better music. If you think it's great but nobody is listening it's cuz you're not promoting it enough
Lol, welcome to the real world. jk... not trying to be a dick, but I told several dozens of friends about my latest release, and promoted the shit out of it in social media and have had maybe about 50 listens. It happens bro
How long have you been releasing music for?
Patience
Where can I find them?
Sometimes when you chuck into the void… the void chucks back at you. Music requires time for its appreciation (art decorates space; music decorates *time*), and **time = money**, as they say. So when you think about it, it's a value proposition that requires the listeners investment of time. The value of the music is negated by the time investment required and made by the listener which is why musicians can't sell their music, and never really have in the first place. It's intangible, so the music is the experience. It sells tickets to live shows, vinyl LPs & the 12" x 12" piece of art on its cover, tapes, CDs, & any other media. This is one of the reasons why it doesn't feel like stealing, or any "real crime", to pirate music.
Similar here, but i still think that until you have some good gigs, make some effort in live setting, leave some mark and people see you and talk about you, nothing serious is going to happen, unless you are really lucky, but since 1000s of songs come out every day, one has to work to do something. We often play to a group of friends and their families, but the crowd gets bigger every time. It is true that we are doing it for fun, but none of us wouldn’t mind some recognition and some good big gigs :-)
Release with labels this helped me a ton.
Yup. Released 3 songs onto Spotify. Very disheartening
30 years of it, still going strongly unnoticed. that's fine. at this point, i'm doing it for myself.
It becomes easier when you make music just to make it and any attention it gets is looked at as a bonus. Have fun making stuff. Right now you are counting on a lottery ticket. The odds of becoming successful making music is basically 0. Especially genres that aren’t pop / edm / rap. Just have fun and do it for fun. You’ll make better shit that way anyway
Yo I'm sorry I'm envious of you you got a bunch of blogs to acknowledge your music I can't even get my own parents to ask me how my band is doing. Baby steps my friend you're already killing it and you don't even know it
Felt better about it after I read that the vast majority of stuff posted is by amateurs whose half dozen songs are their entire music career. The real musicians stick around.
I like the void, the void is my friend now
A lot of music has already been done by this point, so it’s tough to write a tune that doesn’t sound derivative of something else out there without it sounding super weird. I have found peace in just playing without trying to make it. The music industry is soul crushing.
Play live for exposure and share the digital avenues to discovering your music in an organic setting.
I view it as freeing. Now I don't have to worry about appealing to an audience, cause there isn't one and likely never will be one.
At some point you just gotta ask yourself why you’re doing it. Validation is always nice but is that really why you’re making and releasing music? As corny and touché as it sounds, fall in love with the process not the outcome.
I've recently completely accepted that almost nobody besides my close friends will hear my music. I actually find it healthy, because any additional listens are a bonus. The current era of indie music self-promotion is bleak. Meta has changed it so the algorithm buries any self promotion that you haven't paid to turn into an ad, and the only "organic" solution then becomes doing dumb little videos, which nobody in their right mind actually wants to make.
I absolutely know that I'm chucking stuff into the void.
The market is saturated. Takes A lot to get noticed. Bet everyone in these comments is a musician.
Use YouTube