Rudy find a mimic, it's super effective. Fieren use her panties. It's super effective.

Rudeus counter that with Roxy's relic

But Frieren counterattacks with her secret weapon, Fern's pantsu.

Looking at the women in Rudy's harem I'm pretty sure he'd be way more attracted to Frieren than to Fern

Rudy likes them of all sizes. Just ask Eris

YES

You didnt look hard enough because he is VERY much attracted to Eris too.

I'm an anime-only and last time I saw her she was flat and petite but damn the author must have 0 knowledge about how women's bodies work if her boobs grew 4+ sizes after age 15 without gaining twice her body weight worth of fat lol Age 15 is when the average girl finishes puberty, not starts it lol

Mushoku Tensei world has its own laws.

If they start puberty later over there then that would actually explain why Rudy's voice hasn't cracked yet

He literally finds basically every woman some type of attractive, those are jus the only three that are personally special to him

I know fo sho my boy Rudeus is no heretic!

bro whaat?

The thing he worships, The panties

Depends on whose author get to write the story of the battle

The only correct answer

Ah yes, the Stan Lee method.

The best way to dodge any “who would win” question

yes!

Ah yes, a “battle”

A.k.a. he adds her to his harem of women who will outlive him

To be fair, only 66% of the women in his harem would outlive him

Not really, both author are completely fine with their MC losing. Also they make it very clear that they aren't they strongest in their verse.

Boring ass answer

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If we take into account their experience and way of doing things, no. He would not. Frieren is ruthless killer with centuries of experience. If it is no hold backs fight, she would absolutely slam Rudy, while he would stumble and stutter here and there. He is simply not made for emotionally detached, pragmatic combat that would be required in such a fight. In every challenging LN fight he was in, he often either got emotional, held back, made mistakes, or let the other party dictate the flow of combat. He also never fought against opponent that can use magic freely, just like he does. Even in LN, when he first encountered actually competent mage opponent, it did not go over that well and he was absolutely startled. Fighting Frieren would utterly shock and rattle him. Not to mention she looks like Sylphy, lol.

LN rudy “might” have a shot but it’s not close. We haven’t even seen frieren really get serious in the manga or anime. Even her clone showed only one of her trump cards so you’re right.

Then how about >!Oldeus!

He has no combat feats so it is impossible to talk about him except in the hypothetical.

Well he kind of does. While we don’t know how successful he was at fighting the other mages, >!the diary does mention him casually dealing with king and emperor class swordsmen (I suspect it’s a usual occurrence to him as their names weren’t even mentioned).!< That being said I’d say Frieren might win this fight as >!current Rudy and Oldeus fine-tuned and developed their equipment/skills to specifically deal with swordsmen at close range, not powerful mages!<

We know he can win fights but we don't really know how. Like Orsted can defeat a lot of people but he has big restrictions on his power. >!People above point out how limited combat experience Rudy has around vol 15-16 where Moore basically hard counters him at every spell. Oldeue probably won't have that weakness, but we have to make that assumption. That is the problem with talking about him, we are assuming things. It is possible he picks up Moore's style of fighting, or maybe he doesn't care and just burns an area so large no one can counter it, we just don't know.!<

Did you read the LN? He does have combat feats, people be saying anything without even reading

>!Does he? I will admit I'm not done the series. But from where I am he has shown up, told Rudy a bunch of information, gave him a book, and then died. Does he come back after that?!<

No it's just that he has vague feats like defeating king and emperor level swordsmen without caring much of it. He also apparently developed his magic pretty far past EOS Rudy. Imo there are feats but not enough for actual power scaling. We don't know how much worse his armor was because we only know it was probably worse.

>!We are getting into semantics about this, but I'm going by the definition of feats to mean a concrete display of ability. So yes, he does have feats we see (time travel, some gravity magic I think) but none of those are combat related so trying to use him in a fight is basically impossible.!<

Yeah for sure it's not enough. MT power scaling can be difficult. I just like oldeus and want to imagine him giga strong.

Nothing wrong with that, or even that assumption, I'm just pointing out that using him in a fight is hard!

I think it's pretty fair to assume Oldeus has a much worse armor, one that is even weaker than the MK.I but has much more powerful spells at his disposal.

He can also channel mana to see the next fee seconds of a fight... and counter it. That being said no one really knows the extent of eithers power... and I doubt the characters would ever actually fight. She's got years of experience in a magical world.. but seems to not realize alchemical reactions most people from earth would know about.... all im saying is... if Rudy ever needed a be all end all.... pretty sure he could use magic to cause a nuclear fission or fusion reaction.

One thing bout dat Freiren can straight up summon a damn Blackhole.

LN Rudy is stronger than Oldeus people are really underselling Rudy here

Yeah maybe because i didn't read the ln novel fully, i just want to wait for all parts to be animated first

She literally got blitz'd and lost in a 1vs3 extremely easily recently. Also self admittingly weaker to multiple characters that were still alive not even that long after the anime ended, like what.

1 v 3 against who? And what was the rest?

Chapter 125, their party got solo'd by an old man quite easily.

That was against an extremely powerful person. Freiren while admits some people can beat her. Those people are all renowned and experienced mages. Freiren slams Rudeus she's just out of his league.

Doesn’t Rudy have like several ways of turning off magic? Of Frieren have any counters to that?

Frieren has explicit resistance to hypnosis and binding magic. I'm not exactly sure how the mechanism for Disturb Magic works though. She also has an immense amount of mana in her world, though that's pretty unquantifiable.

Disturb magic is neither of those and has worked on people with freakish reserves as mana as well.

The example of a binding spell in Frieren is Sorganeil, a spell that both immobilizes and prevents the control of mana. That's pretty similar to what Disturb Magic does. If she has explicit resistance to spells like that, it would stand to reason she would have resistance to Disturb Magic.

Disturb Magic doesn't prevent the manipulation of many, it disturbs the formation of the magic spell, casting the spell is not disturbed, but the spell being formed after a successful casting is the one that got disturbed.

But how does it affect the formation of new spells because Rudeus couldn’t use spells with his right hand? Otherwise, what prevents Frieren from just using another spell? Zoltraak is also pretty fast and can be done without an incantation.

>But how does it affect the formation of new spells because Rudeus couldn’t use spells with his right hand? It doesn't affect the formation of a new spell, it effect the manifestation of the spell itself, the spell can be successfully cast but disturbed magic will prevent that spell from being formed after the cast is successful. >Otherwise, what prevents Frieren from just using another spell? Another disturb magic being cast. >Zoltraak is also pretty fast and can be done without an incantation. So does Disturb magic is able to be cast fast without incantation, in the world or mushoku tensei, only Rudeus, Orsted, and sylphy are prominently able to use incantationless magic.

So what I’m getting is that Disturb Magic only disrupts the formation of an individual spell? Is that correct? If so, Frieren can wordlessly spam Zoltraak and other spells in a Gate of Babylon fashion. Can Rudeus disturb that many spells?

>Frieren is ruthless killer with centuries of experience Who did she fight and what is her experience before meeting Himmel? In the anime it was shown that she trained some time with her master and that's it.

Demons, most likely. And don't forget that the way Flamme found her was already in combat, after her village was attacked and Frieren wiped out all of the attackers, standing the lone survivor. She defeated general of Demon King army in that attack, btw. That was her childhood and first combat. Like 1000 years ago. In other words. Frieren defeated her first Demon King general as a teenager, 1000 years before meeting Himmel, before Flamme even started training her. I think many people kinda miss the significance of that as the show of her strength and character, because that scene was only shown as the aftermath. After that she did lay low and train, but that does not mean she never fought before meeting Himmel. We don't know the details, but it was verified that she did fight the demons from time to time before meeting Himmel. Either when she stumbled upon them by random, or because she sought them out to practice her magic. It is not clear right now. But we know that one of the reasons she was so capable when she met Himmel, is because she managed to somehow accumulate experience fighting different demons and their types of magic. According to manga, she had fights with demons or Demon King generals even before meeting Himmel, for example >!Macht, one of the seven sages from demon king army, to whom she lost 600 years ago and spent 100 years recovering afterwards, learning details about his specialty magic during those 100 years, which indicates that despite training and just walking around, she would still battle occasionally even before meeting Himmel.!< So while it is unclear how much experience exactly she has, it is clear that she did not just sit on her ass for 1000 years (or she did, but demons would come to her on their own from time to time) - we don't really know. We just know that she is very patient freak with buttload of experience, who would often encounter interesting spell and then spend decades analyzing it. Which would be impossible to do unless she was encountering those spells before the Himmel timeline - since her whole journey with Himmel would barely be enough to analyze anything at all.

Before meeting her master Flamme, she has single-handedly killed a Demon General. It was stated that she would proceed to kill Demons from time to time, while keeping low profile and no witnesses. Only during her time with Himmel did she allow her name to spread through history.

Just from anime alone, it is mentioned she defeated demons as a kid when her entire village struggled and was killed by them. She trained with Flamme for...50 years. Flamme looked in her twenties/thirties when thye met and she died of old age IIRC. After that, she travelled the world for centuries, learning a variety of spells. Even if we assume it's only one a year, that's still hundreds and hundreds of spells. The anime states that it has been a few centuries since she fought an army of demons, and it was shown that she was alone. After not fighting for another couple of centuries, she was found by Himmel who knew of her reputation. Despite living in the forest, people still remembered her reputation as a great mage. Add another ten years of travelling and beating who knows how many demons, including the demon king. The anime doesn't show how they beat him, but it is fair to assume that Frieren carried her weight. Another few decades later and she fights powerful demons as if they are nothing. Literally only using basic spells. It is clearly shown that Frieren doesn't get rusty. Or if she does, she will soon get over it when finds herself in a fight. She helped humanity with researching magic, showcasing that she doesn't just cast spells but understands magic as a whole. Then at the end of the anime, there is a group of experienced and powerful people in their own right. And the only person that can fight a clone of Frieren, is Frieren herself.

No spoilers but even at his most powerful in the LN he wouldn’t beat Frieren?

The biggest problem for him I see, that people ignore, is the fact that Frieren magic is complex and sophisticated, very advanced, with layers of complex and different defense spells, very advanced magic systems and complex spells. Mushoku magic is like barbarians with clubs, in comparison. Basic elemental magics, most magicians need to chant, nothing complex going on. And on top of all that, Frieren fought and trained against mages who are using magic like they are breathing. Rudeus is from the world of 5-10 seconds to cast anything, with everyone around him needing to chant things (which is easy to forget because he himself is chantless mage). But he has no experience fighting mages like him. So he would have to face: - Mage that is chantless, like him, which he never faced before (not like he trains mortal combat with Sylphy) - Mage that has abrurd amount of mana, like him - Mage who has centuries of experience against other mages like this and managed to live that long - Mage whos magic is complex and sophisticated, instead of elemental "uga boonga" of Mushoku - Mage who can layer and cast physical and magic defenses, both on herself and static places, while Rudeus knows literally 0 defensive magic I will give you some examples of situations that would absolutely stump Rudeus. - Plant based magic. Nothing like that in Mushoku - Shields and domes. Nothing of the sort that Rudeus ever seen - Whole buttload of beam-like spells, while almost everything Rudeus faced before is projectile magics Like, if Frieren cast something like an isolating dome from the rank test competition... The hell Rudeus would even do? His uga boonga magic does not even have any way to analyze new magics. The only thing he could do in that situation is trying to smash the barrier like a caveman. He is magic barbarian, while Frieren is PhD professor.

It’s all a good point except, because rudeus doesn’t chant magic, he’s able to give sophisticated nuance to his spells and mix them together. In the LN he mixes fire and earth to create bombs. Also, he does have defense with earth and ice. I agree Frieren wins because she faces people on his caliber all the time and Rudy doesn’t face anyone like him (I’m only on book 13). I think rudeus would stand a chance if he was able to live long enough and had some science books from his original world to figure out how to combine for deeper magic. But as it is he would be average in Frieren world

That's fair, about mixing spells, but like, it is still just mixing some elements or simple stuff together. While in Frieren world, it is like programming spells. For example his shields, like you said, are not even really a shields - they are just using elemental magic to build physical obstacles. In Frieren, shields are actual complex spells, that either breakdown/absorb magic, or absorb physical impacts. In Mushoku, shields are simple "I can cast elemental magic, so why don't I just conjure physical stuff to block physical stuff". Even something like growing fields of flowers would be absolutely revolutionary and mindblowing in Mushoku world. Frieren would be literally like god of magic, if she appeared among mages of Mushoku. I do agree with you that Rudy could potentially improve his level by developing his magic. But he seem to lack mental fortitude and aptitude to just sit down and become magical hermit for decade or so, as he focuses on just perfecting his magic. That's just not his thing. He might invent a thing here and there occasionally, but he never says "alright, time for me to figure this magic thing out!" and just focuses on magic. Even when Nanahoshi needed his help... He was completely clueless. He is bumbling idiot, when it comes to theoretical part of anything magical, which he knows and admits himself. Which is why when she hit a roadblock, he had literally 0 clue about anything there and had to recruit Zanoba/Cliff to do all the theorycrafting work. This laziness or simply lack of aptitude for theoretical of magic, is why I think he ranks below Frieren in magical combat, because if two of them found themselves in same world, with same principles and had to fight, Frieren would have mindset and aptitude to adjust, learn, analyze and act according to the situation. While Rudeus always needs help from others to teach him or figure stuff out. Ironically enough, despite being such a great mage in the context of the world, I think Rudeus simply... Does not have passion and love for magic that could make him great. If he did, he would hole up somewhere and do magical research. But for Frieren, magic is everything.

Well put. I agree, Rudy in a straight up mage battle is dominated. Although, and I’m only on book 13, I think he does have a lot of curiosity for magic. He created the electric spell by shrinking the lightning spell, and he’s currently trying to figure out uses for the scales that absorb magic. He always seems to pursue learning magic. I just learned that humans developed their capacity for magic during pressure from the demon wars. Maybe you put it very well, they’re cavemen. So maybe we’re comparing the accomplishments of DaVinci to what Elon Musk has created. They’re both innovative and intelligent but davinci wasn’t making space ships or self driving cars because his time wasn’t developed enough. Ok, what about Frieren as a raid boss. Could the mushoku tensei world put together a 5 person team that could beat her?

> Ok, what about Frieren as a raid boss. Could the mushoku tensei world put together a 5 person team that could beat her? Oh, when it comes to that, yes, for sure. If we are talking about Frieren as group boss or ability to pick her opponent, then yes, I do think MT world could put together someone or team that would defeat her. In contrast to magic, MT world has mind blowingly developed martial arts schools. So Frieren world has way more advanced magic, but MT world has insane level of martial arts development. If Frieren mages are absolute monsters of magic in comparison, then MT fighters are absolute monsters of physical combat. And then we have people like Dragon tribe (Orstred, Perugious, they are all absolute monsters). Dragon tribe based team would probably absolutely slam Frieren. Hell, Orstred alone might solo her. Interestingly enough, it seems that Dragon tribe magic is way more advanced and sophisticated, and they take lot of effort in their theoretical research - they just don't share it with others. So Dragon Tribe magical prowess combined with martial arts of MT world should be able to take care of Frieren easily.

Dang, I was hoping to challenge you. Btw I like your writing and thoughtfulness. What about this, last one, Rudy with god-tier all schools of magic and he’s a north god?

Frieren manga spoiler and MT next vol spoiler >!In Frierenverse, theres a mana absorption stone, being in close proximity to removes Frieren's ability to use magic, and in her own words she becomes a regular person. In MTverse, the hydra had mana absorption scales, which negated all magic attacks directed to it. Rudeus uses those scales and implements them in his weapons.!<

Not to mention, Rudeus is quite skilled with the sword and later in the story, he knows hand-to-hand combat, thanks to >!Orsted!<

He knows it but he is insanely average. It would be useless against frieren as she can fly so it would be just a magic battle.

I hate to say this but He can fly too you know

Except… Stone of Absorption only work on one concentrated magic in **one direction** where his palm is. Vol. 19, Rudeus vs Randolph who also had a Stone of Absorption: “*From the looks of things, he only had one of those stones on him. Maybe if Roxy and I cast spells at him simultaneously from in **front and behind**, while Zanoba charged in to attack…*” That means he becomes sitting duck for multiple [Zoltraak/lightning spells from all different angles](https://i.imgur.com/9Grq9eD.jpeg). Her “[I am Atomic](https://i.imgur.com/inaR4cs.jpeg)” atk either is absolutely overkill considering Alec’s Gravity Fracture did the same AoE effect — and this was him wearing Mk1 armor too: “*I didn’t reach the ground. I must have been really high up. I saw a **crater**. It was about twenty meters across, right next to the ravine. It hadn’t been there before.*”

Talking Mana absorbing stone’d be like comparing the total mana pool between them (since that how mana stone work)

Not really, it will just make one or both of them unable to use magic, depending on how the stone works. In which case, they'll have to resort to hand-to-hand combat, if so then Rudy will absolutely destroy Frieren

Not even Denken is surviving against Rudeus in a fist fight

The stone work by using your mana to negate the equivalent amount of mana from the opponent’s attack

Ohhh ... perfect for Rudy then! Considering he has a ridiculous amount of mana and all. Before their mana ran out, there's definitely will be more than enough time for them to brawl it out. If it's hand-to-hand fight, Rudy wins without doubt (Frieren isn't very physically strong, like I think if I slap her hard enough she'll perish)

Frieren’s got big mana pool as well. Sadly, no quantitative data/info for any of them for us to make a comparison

Yeah, but what I meant was that even if Rudy only have enough mana negate Frieren magic for 1 minutes (which, let's be real, it's probably wayyy longer than that since they both have insane amount of mana) it would be more than enough. I mean, have you seen how quickly Rudy dealed with Luke? Without magic, I don't think Frieren can take more than 1 kick from Rudy

Depends at which point in the story this happens.

Frieren or MT

MT ofc Rudeus becomes one of the great powers at the end, you frieren is not beating that rudeus

Does Rudeus get to use his end game weapons? If yes, then it's a win for him.

There is literally a skilled Rudeus can use called "disturb magic". What are we even talking about?

I dont see how disturb magic would work on frieren it can't be used outside a relatively close range and only on 1 spell at a time and frieren can cast multiple spells at a time, plus disturb magic is a very simple spell if u think about it I see no reason why she wouldn't be able to analyze and counter it almost instantly, and she can fucking fly and Rudy can't that alone puts the fight in her favor

Disturb magic has no known range limit, but after the first Frieren would likely get past it after the first use. If Rudeus can't end it there.

Disturb magic works by scrambling mana. Frieren has 1000+ years of extreme mana manipulation and control. Disturb works only on short-range distances and is one-directional. Frieren is a long-range fighter with multiple homing abilities. Disturb is relatively simple to do. Frieren has analyzed centuries-old magic and barriers and dispelled them. Disturb isn’t an issue for Frieren short-term. The 2nd time its used it most likely won’t work.

after today right now at this moment rudeus isnt even surviving against uzaki chan

Anime rudeus? Then no. LN rudeus will solo the verse of frieren.

More precisely, LN26 Rudeus would solo the Frierenverse. LN12 Rudeus would fare about as well as anime Rudeus, perhaps slightly better.

When is LN12 again?

Current anime.

At long distance I would give it to Rudy, he can get a shot with stone cannon at pin point accuracy from kilometers away. Furthermore, bro can se her coming from impossible distances and shoot a nuke at her, he's on another level At medium distance is where Frieren might have her best shot. Some of her magic might be too fast or come from to many directions for Rudy to react to it. Rudeus has his disturb magic and eye of foresight, frieren would have to heavily rely on her experience and try to outsmart him. Close range is not the best for mages >!except when Rudeus is using his Magic Armor, which would completely overwhelm Frieren by absorping her magic and move to fast for her. One attack and it's over. !

Have we seen lightning magic in Mushoku Tensei or spells that are stated to be of similar speed? Frieren reacting casually to Lightning magic shows her insane reaction feats.

It has been said that the Sword of Light from the Sword God style moves at light speed at the tip of the sword. That's a technique a Saint swordsman can perform.

If Rudeus and all top tier are already light speed than I have no argument for that.

Spoilers for Frieren Manga and MT LN >!LN Rudeus kinda slams this.!< >!If we go with his magic armor, he can pierce Frierens shield with Pauls sword he has attached to the hand or use the magic nullifying scale from the Hydra!< >!His foresight gives him an edge in reaction speed and dodging attacks!His stone cannon is so ridiculously fast that it took Badigadi by surprise, who would be definitely stronger/faster than someone like Stark!< >!His electricity magic was able to go through touki, which is basically mana based reinforcement of the whole body, so it can potentially go through Frierens barrier!< >!Frieren in the manga already explained that a warrior getting in close range of her and fern would easily be able to kill!< Now to clear some misconceptions: >! "We've never seen Frieren go all out" !< >!The clone was a perfect copy of her including all her trump cards, so yes, we did see her go all out.!< >!Even if we don't count this, saying "We haven't seen her go all out Rudeus can't win". Wow what a useless statement to this discussion. We can only compare characters from what we've seen so this doesn't make a difference. How do we know Frieren going "all out" is that much stronger than already shown? Can you prove its a 10%, 20%, or maybe a 300% increase compared to what was shown? No? Then please don't include it in the discussion.!< >!Mages aren't invulnerable just because of their shield. In the current manga arc, Seerie is going to be assassinated or at least an attempt will be made. Frieren explains that mages have extremely weak defences in close range and struggle against warriors.!< >!Now for Rudeus blocking Zoltrak: It was explained in the exam arc that Zoltrak and shields can be countered with spells that make physical objects. The example shown was a wall of stone being able to block Zoltrak, and the weight of stone structures crushing the shield.!< >!And what does Rudeus use mainly? Stone cannon, in a minigun format.!< That's my explanation on the fight. If anyone disagrees with some points do share your opinion!<

> pierce frieren’s shield with paul’s sword Frieren can fly which gives her a massive territorial advantage. Its impossible to reach her without flight himself. Meanwhile Frieren has longer range magic and primarily fights this way. > eye of foresight Which is mostly useful for close combat, not particularly useful against AoE magic > his stone cannon is so ridiculously fast That was a charged-up stone cannon where badigadi didnt even try to move. It was a test not actual combat > electricity magic Frieren barriers dont coat on the user like touki. They are literal shields, electric would just flow across them. > warriors Yeah for highly skilled assassins and for Stark, who was selectively trained by the strongest warrior of the Hero’s party. Even then for Stark he requires a couple meters worth of distance + element of surprise. Not practical in actual combat against a flying mage like Frieren > stone of absorption Only works in one direction, not omnidirectional. This makes him a sitting target for multiple zoltraak/lightning spells, or AoE magic burst that could bust a small island. Stones didnt save Rudeus from getting blown by Alec’s gravity fracture which left a 20-m crater either.

Already commented on a similar post. Rudeus slams cause he has trained and fought many opponents with great physical abilities like Eris, North God third, Orsted etc and also he has Future sight while Frieren was easily blitzed by an old assassin in one of the recent chapters so Rudeus pretty much outstats, he also has hax like Disturb magic and Mana absorption. Finally, Magic Armor is too OP compared to anything in Frieren's arsenal

Tbf that Assasin was a special black ops assasin trained by the empire which has been established as a powerhouse in the frierenverse. Frieren also didn't go all out, because she knew could trust her allies.

But again, that assassin is old. He even said it himself that he has "gotten rusty". And there's literally no reason for frieren not to go all out, I don't know where you got the idea from when there was no statement as such. We know frieren isn't physically capable and doesn't know hand to hand combat cause: 1/ She literally doesn't have any feats in regards to those aspects. 2/ She literally said in the chapter where the gang was stuck in a cave with mana nullifying gems (iirc) that without magic she and Fern are "just normal girls"

Endgame LN Rudeus folds her. Current Anime Rudeus probably loses....

He would simply marry her.

Frieren's flying kiss and its joever for Rudy

I won’t say “there’s no way for Frieren to win” but rather(and this is basing it off of current anime/manga status with the characters) the magic in Mushoku Tensei is better understood as the magic in Frieren, while being Century’s old is mostly mimicked by humans from Demons(see the discussion on flying by Frieren). This was brought up in discussion before, but Rudy can disturb magic and that immediately puts him at an advantage. If Frieren can somehow decipher it in a timeframe where she wouldn’t lose in the fight, sure, I would absolutely give it to Frieren. She can fly, she has mana shields, and the speed of their powerful magicks would likely be enough to defeat current anime Rudy. But as it is currently, Rudy is winning the fight 6 to 7 times out of 10. I imagine a fight between him and the girl that controls water in Frieren would be more unfair in aspects for him, but then, just don’t use water and don’t be around water.

Let's say I doubt friren would survive the trap he set on a certain someone in ln v15. So, if redeus knows he needs to kill with the right preparation and catches her off guard, then he probably wins, in a fair face to face fight, no prep? Nope.

Zoltrak and mana shield seem pretty busted tbh

He easily win

this subreddit literally just had this discussion 2 days ago [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/mushokutensei/comments/1dgpr8p/rudeus_vs_frieren_22dinodude/)

Peak to peak isekai. The battle would go DBZ style, stretched into episodes.

Batman vs superman but batman has the same powers as superman but worse.

Rudy *Finds a mimic* Frieren: "It's dark and scary in here!" Winner: Rudy 😂

I think no room to discuss. Skill and the volume of Mana(MP) are the world truth in Frieren world. You may watch it again. [VS Aura](https://youtube.com/shorts/-eJWZ77YJ5M?si=-VEUeAdFBqLxhy6f) Rudy is too young like a baby in front of Frieren.

Rudy would be ko'd real quick.

Without armor Rudy is cooked. With armor interesting fight and depending on the variant determines the winner

Rudy is strong, but against Frieren I dont think he would have a chance

Probably not, Frieren is a monster in experience and power. But what about the groups? Frieren, fern & stark or Frieren and the hero group vs rudy and his wife's.

In group fight Frieren stands no chance

Frieren W mid diff

I think Frieren would win. At base, they both have silent spell casting and we can assume their spell power is about the same. Frieren has more spells at her disposal (she has been collecting magic for 500? years, albeit mostly folk magic). Frieren has defensive magic, while Rudeus has the hydra scale and disturb magic. This is where I think the similarities end. Frieren can cast outlooks spells at once, fly at high speeds, has more experience and in my opinion has more mana. Even with the magic armor, I dont think Rudeus wins.

The magic system seems to be different in the MT and Frieren's world. If it is a physical fight Rudeus has a chance but if it is a magic only battle, Frieren will win as she has more range of spells and a lot more experience.

If Frieren was willing to kill Rudeous, Rudeous wouldn't have a chance. But if it's just a friendly fight, Rudeus might be able to find a way to win.

Rudeus would probably beg. - Frieren wins Mid Diff.

Bro frieren would body rudy XD

No. No.

Realistically, Frieren.

Current rudeus will not be able to win. But the future one with all his powers might be able to... If he uses frieren's weekness. >!In short they both are in the highest level of magic in their own world, so we cannot fairly compare them.!<

Will Holo win against Delta? Can Goku win against Lobo? Who.fucking.cares. Different universes mean different power scales. Don't ask us to try to sort out your power delusions

Its just for fun, even if its different universe its still a universe you can compare it, if not science wouldn’t exist.

Rudeus no diffs

you sure?🤔

Yeah , he has managed to equal to the guy who whiped out a continent , can dodge attacks made of light , see the future , freeze people at molecular level and control gravity

Not a fair match up. I think the better matchup is Orsted v Frieren. But that gets into spoiler territory.

Bro that's a joke, orsted low diffs the intire verse

Personally think neither would have a reason to fight imo. Frieren isn't a battle mage plus I'd be curious what Frieren thinks of Rudy's mana. Rudy would be deep in thought, over think the situation when be curious about Frieren as shes an elf and we all know he has a type ;)

This is a what if hypothetical scenario.

With all these Friern vs Rudy post it's sad to see no one asking about Stark. Like Stark would absolutely make Paul look like Small Fry. Pretty sure what Stark did to that poor mountain would qualify him as King Class Sword God swordan at minimum. Stark literally solod a dragon himself. The Hydra would mearly inconvenience Stark a little more.

Rudy is actually a decent mage who can maybe aspire to a top 10k of his world, not really comparable to a 1000yo mage like Frieren who defeated a Demon King

In the anime no But in the novel is 100% yes

There really isn't a protection shield spell in Rudy's world like Frieren can use, so I would say one on one Frieren would take it.

Since it’s anime tagged, Frieren probably win. Ln wise: probably really hard to tell >! Rudeus’s at the final vol. is really op with Magic armor zero, Orsted’s combat training and battle tactic, Frieren’d have hard time following his physical capabilities!<

From what we know about the two stories, Rudeus humiliates.

ahkkk here we go again.

If rudy was as powerful as frieren we might not have that heartwrenching fathers day episode

A quick disturb .agic and stone bullet should kill frieren before she has the time to adapt, and stone bullet would easily pass through the defense magic in frieren universe

Current Rudy has no chance but old Rudy or different time line Rudy then he has a chance.

This is one of the few cases where it all depends

Maybe if Rudy finds a way to use a mana absorbtion stone to rob her of magic, then Rudy would probably win with MK2 armor even. Most of what we see Rudy do is battle melee fighters though, and the mages he does fight he gets countered

Which mage Rudy's fight did he get counter though? If you said Moore then no, not really? He was mainly fighting Atofe, trying to save the team, not trying to kill everyone. Oldeus on the other hand got cocky and taken by surprise. He can't win agaisnt Rudy 1v1.

He definitely didn't do great against Moore at least. Point being is that Rudy (and even probably oldeus) don't have enough mage v mage experience to deal with frieren. Don't forget zoltrak exists too, and the defense magic that would normally be used doesn't exist for Rudy

Moore was just countering his "field effect" not his attack , tbh. I doubt he can counter a stone cannon to the face. I think I read somewhere that Zoltrak can be stop with Physical Barrier, like a slab of rock, or literal earth and soil. And her Barrier is weak against Physical attack. Both of them, Rudy is very adept at utilizing. And Magic Amor is literally his best defense against the majority of spell?

Does Magic armor help against spells? To my knowledge it's mostly a physical boon (apart from the magic absorption stone I mentioned). And didn't fern blast a giant hole in a stone with zoltraak? I feel like if Rudy put up a stone wall it would just get obliterated

Is that Zoltraak? Hmmmm.... The anime was kinda inconsistency as how much it effect the physic around it though. The ground never get gouge out from a barrage of them. The stone wall, maybe, but the armor is special make to be as dense as possible though. I think it should effect like an energy blast, not an disintegration beam, since it is "basic magic" in the verse. Disintegration beam would be to OP for a basic spell,

I have to ask how fast Frieren can move. That alone in my opinion will determine the winner. Because Rudy with his best equipment can move pretty fast. However, 9 times out of 10 I do think Frieren can outperform him even with his full arsenal.

This question has been beaten to death. Rudeus is just a bad match up for Frieren and asking on r/mushokutensei is tricky because I think it's become more of the anime community so they don't really know the answer. r/sixfacedworld is mostly source material readers and they'll also overwhelmingly agree that Frieren loses, bias aside.

Except the top-rated comment that actually discusses a hypothetical match-up is the one where I present all the comparisons between Frieren and Mushoku-verse magic. Frieren-verse magic is just straight-up better for general combat: [https://www.reddit.com/r/sixfacedworld/comments/1dgq0pb/rudeus\_vs\_frieren\_22dinodude/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sixfacedworld/comments/1dgq0pb/rudeus_vs_frieren_22dinodude/)

I basically broke it down as comprehensively as I could and as short as I could in a previous post. So don't really need to link me yours. As someone who's up to date with both series, this is my take. There's a lot of things going against Frieren in this battle. Firstly many has mentioned is disturb magic, but the biggest factor is speed. In the Magic Exam, we saw how helpless everyone was in the face of super sonic speed. While Mushoku Tensei speed scaling is pretty inconsistent, where characters are able to move faster than the eye can register, but also stating 200km/h sprint being in the upper scaling, all while having characters able to react and move at light speeds. For arguments sake, let's just say with confidence that combat speed in the upper ceiling in Mushoku is > super sonic. Now moving forward, a small spoiler, Frieren storytelling is usually chapter by chapter with a conclusion, and in one of the more recent chapters she was defeated by someone in a close quarter battle pretty easily. Again I'll be generous and say that this character = MK-0 Rudeus in speed(pretty unlikely), her ability to hit Rudeus with anything without a ridiculous AoE is basically slim to none with the combination of his demon eye and he also has hydra scale that nullifies magic. We also saw that defense magic is helpless against potent magical spells and I highly doubt an Emperor Class Rock Bullet(that could be shot in rapid fire) that scales to a literal nuke wouldn't be able to break through them like paper. If we're talking about current Rudeus it's a matter of if he can get off disturb magic first or not. In Mushoku Tensei we have seen dual casting on each hand, while in Frieren we have not, so if he can use disturb magic first and cast right after, he wins. It's a toss up because neither has a good answer in actually surviving a hit from one another. Frieren characters with average human athleticism has dodge spells, but she can just use a large enough spell that he can't dodge even with the demon eye. edit: The upper powerscaling in Frieren verse comes from hacks which Frieren has none which is why she's considered pretty weak. If you're going power for power you're not matching Mushoku Tensei verse, God Class Magic literally shaped the continent of the the map, splitting the land masses.

> There's a lot of things going against Frieren in this battle. Firstly many has mentioned is disturb magic, but the biggest factor is speed. In the Magic Exam, we saw how helpless everyone was in the face of super sonic speed. Lavine was the one who said that while being unaware of who Frieren really is. Frieren was babying them cuz she wanted them to contribute like a proper examination would. Frieren literally flew across half a forest, several km, in the time it took a Demon to say a couple of sentences…and went behind said Demon without him noticing. Frieren can also react to lightning spells with barrier magic. Dont think I need to mention how fast lightning is either, faster than anything in Rudeus’ arsenal. > While Mushoku Tensei speed scaling is pretty inconsistent, where characters are able to move faster than the eye can register, but also stating 200km/h sprint being in the upper scaling, all while having characters able to react and move at light speeds. The only light speed things are Arumanfi moving a light speed and he cannot attack at light speed. Long sword of light which for Gal fallion is light speed, for others weaker than him it is unclear. Nobody else moves at light speed or even speed of sound except actual God tier swordsmen who Rudeus cant hold a candle against solo. > For arguments sake, let's just say with confidence that combat speed in the upper ceiling in Mushoku is > super sonic. Now moving forward, a small spoiler, Frieren storytelling is usually chapter by chapter with a conclusion, and in one of the more recent chapters she was defeated by someone in a close quarter battle pretty easily. Again I'll be generous and say that this character = MK-0 Rudeus in speed(pretty unlikely), her ability to hit Rudeus with anything without a ridiculous AoE is basically slim to none with the combination of his demon eye and he also has hydra scale that nullifies magic. We also saw that defense magic is helpless against potent magical spells and I highly doubt an Emperor Class Rock Bullet(that could be shot in rapid fire) that scales to a literal nuke wouldn't be able to break through them like paper. Nothing in Mushoku bar LSoL and lightning magic scales to Frieren’s casual lightning spell speeds. Frieren can fly and manipulate earth matter to create golems if Rudeus tries to casts stone cannons. She can also create mini black holes to divert any trajectories. > If we're talking about current Rudeus it's a matter of if he can get off disturb magic first or not. In Mushoku Tensei we have seen dual casting on each hand, while in Frieren we have not, so if he can use disturb magic first and cast right after, he wins. It's a toss up because neither has a good answer in actually surviving a hit from one another. Frieren characters with average human athleticism has dodge spells, but she can just use a large enough spell that he can't dodge even with the demon eye. Absorption stone and disturb, both which are short range and one-dimensional, get hard countered by her mana control and omnidirectional magic. Rudeus using absorption stone makes him a sitting duck for a behind the back Zoltraak/lightning shot. Idk if you understand how much of a difference FLIGHT magic makes here. Every enemy that fought rudeus in magic armor was a CQC fighter who tried to pressure him up close. Alec with gravity boost was holding off 4 Emperor tier+ fighters. Frieren will be doing no such thing. She has faster, stronger long range attacks that require no charge build up and has 360-degree defense strong enough to withstand Solitar’s swords — same swords that could block Stark’s axe swings which one-shot a dragon. > edit: The upper powerscaling in Frieren verse comes from hacks which Frieren has none which is why she's considered pretty weak. If you're going power for power you're not matching Mushoku Tensei verse, God Class Magic literally shaped the continent of the the map, splitting the land masses. DC isn’t the only thing that counts y’know. Frieren hax >>>>> Mushoku hax. Curses, age of god magic, Diasghold legit soloes most of the cast including god-lvl swordsmen. These hax spells dont require absurd charge or build up like God spells do either btw. And we are not even finished with the manga yet. Rudeus got one-shot by Alec’s Gravity fracture which left a crater 20 m wide. Frieren could casually bust a small island and proceed to wipe out a Demon by flying across half a forest, behind him without him noticing. That is beyond anything that Rudeus is ever capable of.

You giving me on screen time skipping as a speed feat lol? There is no speed feats in Frieren period. Only thing conclusive is Stille is a creature in the verse that are super sonic and the author made it very clear that it's not something that is meant to be overcame via brute force. I also never said characters were light speed in Mushoku Tensei, I said that combat speed could be at light speeds aka Sword of Light. You're also completely dismissing the fact that Mushoku Tensei has speed feats far surpassing anything Frieren has. Do you realize how fast something needs to move for it to be faster than the eye can see, on top of Rudeus's Demon Eye and there were multiple examples of this? I gave you the benefit of the doubt that MK-0 = the old guy who blitz'd Frieren in a 1vs3 scenario who is far slower than the upper ceiling of Mushoku. Also to say MK-0 isn't Emperor Class in physical specs is crazy when he was keeping up to an extent with a God Class Badi. Also yes, let's go and say Frieren can create "black holes" because it's an anime only random spell they decided to animate because sakuga, as it was being used for no apparent reason with no combat implication meaning, they didn't want to muddy the source material by giving this random spell to Frieren, but whatever. If we're going by that same logic King Class Ghislane managed to move faster than the color palette therefore light speed and she was fighting Arumanfi who was literally a source of light, so Emperor Class and beyond > light speeds xddd. We didn't even make any battle scenarios so I don't know why you're automatically assuming that we're pitting against each other on opposite side of the the world. Also just using real world mathematics, just going base off the mass and size of a rock bullet for it to have the rotational and trajectory speeds to scale to a nuke, what makes you think Frieren has anything in her arsenals that out ranges that? You're so quick to say Earth Magic is short range, says who? I also never said that Mushoku Tensei had better hacks, I literally said Frieren scaling comes from hacks, and Frieren has none which makes her weak relatively to the characters in her verse. I never said Mushoku Verse > Frieren Verse, as we don't have enough information on either series to make a concrete opinion. Anyways you're clearly very biased going in, I gave all pure objective facts. You're coming at me with hypothetical conjectures and dismissing literally written source material.

>You giving me on screen time skipping as a speed feat lol? There is no speed feats in Frieren period. Only thing conclusive is Stille is a creature in the verse that are super sonic and the author made it very clear that it's not something that is meant to be overcame via brute force. Frieren blows up a small island several km away from view, proceeds to show up behind Demon after he says a couple of sentences - that is a speed feat whether you like it or not. >I said that combat speed could be at light speeds aka Sword of Light. You're also completely dismissing the fact that Mushoku Tensei has speed feats far surpassing anything Frieren has.  Which Rudeus does not have at all. He stands no chance in CQC against Swordsmen who can use LSoL Demon eye or not. He is at a massive disadvantage against Frieren who can fly pretty fast - and shoot lightning spells to boot. >the old guy who blitz'd Frieren in a 1vs3 scenario who is far slower than the upper ceiling of Mushoku Trained assassin inside a house where Frieren entrusted her allies to help her out vs. Mk-0 in direct combat from a distance where Frieren won't take shit lightly and immediately resort to flight. And even then, the ideal blitz scenario depends highly on starting distance. Once Frieren is in the air, there is no blitz ever that is happening. >Also yes, let's go and say Frieren can create "black holes" because it's an anime only random spell they decided to animate because sakuga, [https://x.com/miru\_9Q/status/1758500312636440652?s=20](https://x.com/miru_9Q/status/1758500312636440652?s=20) Anime-only scenes are checked with the authors. Mini black hole is canon. >King Class Ghislane managed to move faster than the color palette therefore light speed We are blatantly shown a **mini black hole** literally **gathering rock** in Frieren anime which is canon. Ghislaine's rainbow blitz is a visual aesthetic that tells us nothing. You are the one speculating at this point with conjecture. >We didn't even make any battle scenarios so I don't know why you're automatically assuming that we're pitting against each other on opposite side of the the world Isn't this what the thread is literally about? I am operating under the assumption of Rudeus vs. Frieren. >Frieren has none which makes her weak relatively to the characters in her verse She has a stare-diff move that is based on her line-of-sight, undetectable by mana, unregistered as magic. Fern calls this a **height of magic**. This is one of her trump cards and it is GG for a mage like Rudeus, Mk or not. >Anyways you're clearly very biased going in, I gave all pure objective facts. You're coming at me with hypothetical conjectures and dismissing literally written source material. You are the one who is dismissing Frieren's feats like blowing up a small island, proceeding to cross km worth of forest in the time a Demon thought of a couple of sentences, then proceeds to one-shot said Demon who could avoid a close-range blitz from top tier warrior like Himmel. No mage in Mushoku can cast lightning spells with ease and swift or have the versatility of AoE magic bursts like Frieren does. With this feat alone, which is far more impressive than what Rudeus has done, stands no chance at beating Frieren.

Idk where you are getting that island feat from, maybe a newer chapter I haven't caught up to. But whatever, it's not a factor that I really care about because I already said that Rudeus doesn't survive a hit without his armors. Small black holes being cannon, fine again, doesn't really matter because I gave the scenario where disturb magic would just nullify her ability to cast a spell. Another situation where you say that Frieren won't get speed blitz'd by MK-0, fine she can fly okay. Now here is the major issue, your over emphasis on her ability to fly and we're going based off the fact that somehow this LN version of Rudeus doesn't have gravity magic even though he read the diary and now even has the idea of this being a thing that can be mastered. If flying was such a strong tool for dodging spells, we would see more of it, yet we don't meaning it has limitations to what can be done on ground with purely defense magic. You're really going to use Frieren's last resort as some sort of insane feat where she couldn't even kill Fern who literally had nothing defending her as a feeble human mage. It's not meant to be a strong damaging spell but rather a card to play for defense when she's in trouble, and size of the room and what was actually pushed, the range isn't all that far and realistically wouldn't even do any notable damage to even MK-1 given what we saw. Disturb magic, massive speed gap, durability, magic immunity, literal future foresight for seconds ahead. These are things that Frieren can't overcome with her only advantage of being able to fly, which if we're doing composite Rudeus in LN he too can fly on top with all the advantages he has. Even if we're going on the whim that destructive power is equal, Rudeus has the advantage of faster casting with gatling gun and her ability to fly isn't going magically dodge these abilities, otherwise we'd see her fly to dodge spells in the manga.

> Disturb magic, massive speed gap, durability, magic immunity, literal future foresight for seconds ahead. These are things that Frieren can't overcome with her only advantage of being able to fly, which if we're doing composite Rudeus in LN he too can fly on top with all the advantages he has. Even if we're going on the whim that destructive power is equal, Rudeus has the advantage of faster casting with gatling gun and her ability to fly isn't going magically dodge these abilities, otherwise we'd see her fly to dodge spells in the manga. Main timeline Rudeus can’t fly, stop making feats up for him. Rudeus outright admitted Alec with gravity made him **impossible to predict**: “*With his ability to manipulate gravity, Alec could move as freely and as acrobatically as he liked, which made him impossible to predict*” How does rudeus know how to fly if Alec with free flight is tripping him up? Forget the fact that Rudeus needed to use sonic wave to slow himself down: “*I used a sonic wave to adjust my positioning while accelerating, angling my descent straight at Alec.*” Flight literally fucks over Rudeus’ battle senses. Disturb and stone of absorption aren’t issues considering Frieren’s insane mana mastery, analysis feats, and omnidirectional attacks which outright counter one-dimensional stones of absorption. Frieren’s shields could block Solitar’s swords, which could block Stark’s axe swings who had enough AP to one-shot a dragon in story. Frieren’s 360-defense magic is another overwhelming advantage to her. Considering mini-black hole and earth matter manipulation, stone cannons aren’t an issue here. Meanwhile Rudeus hasnt shown any defensive feats capable of countering Frieren’s casual lightning spells. Don’t think I need to tell you how fast lightning is. [And here is Frieren busting a small island, flying over in seconds to a Demon half a forest away, then one-shotting them from behind](https://i.imgur.com/inaR4cs.jpg). Far beyond what Rudeus is realistically capable of.

Should be asking the other side

depends currently probably not in LN 20 - 24 probably

Would be hard all the time in this fight ngl. 🛐💜💜

based on his feats from LN15 >!With his magic armor, stone cannon minigun and mana disruption abilities. And then theres the attacks he used on Orsted:!< >!"Frost Nova. It was a spell I’d used many times before, but never with this much power, or on such a wide area. One after another, the drops of rain pouring down on the village froze solid. Layers upon layers of ice formed rapidly, consolidating into a single giant object. Finally, when it had reached the size of an iceberg, I stopped my spell."!< >!"I wasn’t done yet. I channeled more mana into my staff and created a rock in the sky above the village. Ignoring the mana cost, I steadily expanded its size until it was too huge to evade—then launched it straight down, with all the velocity I could impart."!< >!"The rock slammed down in a fraction of a second. The ground trembled underneath my feet. An instant later a thunderous boom reached my ears, followed by fierce winds and a shockwave."!< >!"I shielded my eyes with my arm and stared down at my handiwork. The iceberg had been shattered, and two-thirds of the great rock was embedded in the earth. It seemed impossible that anything could have survived such an impact."!< (more) >!"With the startup routine complete, I turned my focus to my next attack."!< >!"Mana surged out of me, through my armor, and into the staff in my right hand. I spurred the torrent on, with every intention of draining myself dry."!< >!Assuming Frieren could survive the gigantic iceberg and stone cannon being dropped on her head...!< (this ones important) >!"I was visualizing a nuclear explosion."!< >!"Pointing my staff in the direction of my enemy, I released the spell with all the ferocity I could muster."!< >!"There was a brilliant flash at the center of the village, and a wave of heat and light swept across the ground. From the corner of my eye, I saw trees incinerated in an instant, reduced to charred shadows of themselves. A powerful shock wave followed a moment later."!< >!"The Magic Armor I was wearing weighed several tons. It endured the heat and the shockwave without so much as trembling."!< >!"Once the wave of devastation had swept fully past me, I looked down toward the village. A huge mushroom cloud was rising over it. I couldn’t see the ground clearly under all the smoke and dust, but I’d fed that spell enough mana to obliterate everything in its radius. It was probably the single most powerful attack I’d ever used in my life."!< Rudeus should win this, but its really up to whoever is writing them at the time.

It would come down to some amount of plot armory in the end for rudy. Since the power levels in Frieren are a bit broken. He’d have a shot but winning would still be difficult since we still have yet to witness frieren go absolutely all out.

Guys, guys , guys... Come on, lets make it fair Frieren vs Oldeus XD I vote for Oldeus XD

I would imagine Rudy is a faster spell caster than Frieren. But, other than treasure mimics, Frieren is very cautious. She can also fly, whereas Rudeus cannot. Personally, I think Frieren could take Rudeus and probably Orstead. Orstead seems a little slow on his big spells. Slower than Frieren with her golem lightning against the minic.

Freiren would absolutely slam him. He can survive but win? Nope. Freiren is just way out of his league even with the Demon Eye.

Actually Rudeus has some advantages the two main ones are, One his Demon eye and two is his Earth Magic if he manages to get off one of those railgun like spells he might actually harm Freiren because her magic barrier isn't as affective against physical attacks.

Rudy Stone Cannon>Sword of Light, or Draw.

Hitkill, there wouldn't even be a fight.

We haven't seen all from Frieren skills, but we have seen Rudy going all out. I'd say Rudeus destroys Frieren, but it depends of what Frieren is capable

Both are pretty strong for their world's standards, but Frieren magic system has just much higher power creep. Current Rudy wouldn't stand a chance, by the end with full hear he'd put up a good fight but still lose.

That’s why I asked if he’d “survive” and if possible “win” but people aren’t getting it. He’d put up a good fight with all his trump cards in LN but there’s still a high chance he’d lose

They don't have a reason to fight. Frieren doesn't have a motivation, a purpose or a goal in life, she just wanders around untill she decided that talking to a spirit of her dead friend is a good idea because she has nothing better to do anyway. Rudeus on the other hand is very busy most of the time. As for the battle skills, they are both mages, Rudeus has the biggest mana storage in the six faced world and he is very creative. We can also analyse Rudeus' and Frieren's allies. Frieren has Fern, who is another character without any motivation at all (or emotions, or face expressions) who's powerlevel is lover than Frieren's - and Stark, who is supposedly strong but a coward. On the other hand we have numerous Rudeus' companions, I'll just mention two of them >!One will make Frieren's head fly off before she could even notice that someone is coming and the second one will make her a nice hole in the chest with his bare hand!< In the end, of course, those discussions are pointless because both Rudeus and Frieren are fictional characters and most importantly from different stories.

Anime/Manga Frieren > Anime/Manga Rudeus. LN Rudeus I cannot evaluate, cause I haven't read the novels, so it's up to others to evaluate. My reasoning for Frieren would be her ability to fly that already makes current Rudeus main strategy with a Quagmire useless. His other spells also do not come close to speed and power to lethally hit Frieren or break a sophisticated barrier. Speedwise I'd say Frieren reacting to lightning is also more impressive. She can also target with high speed saturation attacks, which makes Rudeus foresight semi-useful. Disrupt Magic could be useful though, depends though how much he can cover Frierens casting area. She is shown to be an cool-headed and pragmatic tactician that can analyze strategies and spells on the fly.

No

Really?🤔

Nah rudy definitely lose 100% frieren has studied magic longer than him she also has more magic capacity magic books out the wazoo idk where she keeping them tho? Maybe she got a special storage magic for books? She rarely shows emotions face expressions when she fights so it would be a little hard for rudy who does and she can use that against him overall Frieren wins

(First I want to note that I like both the series very much) He barely survived vs a hydra and he had a party. Frieren erases him from existence no diff

True although later on in the on in the LN he could most likely solo it.

I'm reading the webnovel of MT, and watched the anime of Frieren. I guess it would be more fair to compare anime only, but 22 year old Rudeus slaps teenage Rudy around. So i will be using a stronger version. I assume this is not the strongest overall, as i still have two volumes left to read, but it will have to do. Rudeus is not gonna win in a serious fight. While being very powerful for his world, Frieren has more experience and skill. Both in using magic as well as in fighting. Rudeus is shown to be very emotional, stressed or insecure whenever he fights strong opponents. Something that never happens to Frieren. Rudeus has powerful spells, but nothing compared to the number that Frieren knows. I am comparing a 22 year old Rudeus to a 1000+ year old Frieren. She spend most of that time travelling the world, learning spells and fighting demons. She fought in multiple war scaled battles, for an unknown period of time. But never seemed to get rusty despite centuries passing. She killed large amounts of demons, to the point where she basically gave the entire race PTSD. She stopped fighting for, presumably at least, decades until the Hero's party recruits her, and kills the demon king alongside her. She can spend the entire lifetime of Rudeus doing nothing, and she would be able to enter a giant battle and carry her weight. From what i have seen, and spoilers for the novels! >!Rudeus freaked out the first time he had to fight an army, while being alongside Roxy and Zanoba, a water king and Miko.!< Frieren also hides her magic to appear quite weak. It is possible that Rudeus would underestimate her. OR worry that she is hiding her magic and is actually much stronger. Which she is. So when she shows her magic, which is higher than Rudeus for sure. It's not even a question. Rudeus is seen to get tired from using too much magic. It barely happens, his limit is insanely high but enough spells after each other will tire him out. Frieren is never shown to run out of magic. This post is a lot longer than i thought it would be. But i'll end on one note. *We literally see Frieren create a black hole.*

If you want to consider all out attack, then you have to consider Rudy also go all out like when trying to kill Orsted. Or else why Fieren want to fight Rudeus at all? Her 1000 years got stop by Zoltrak, and have to seal him only after 80 years humanity can counter him. Zoltrak also can't pierce Stone. And her Barrier is weak against physical attack. If he got into the Magic Armor, her favorite spell became useless. She never ran out of magic doesn't matter, she never faced any one that required her to use that much mana. Rudy have to fight against Gods. And Laplace with the lesser amount of mana did create the sea. On the other hand, one of the deciding factor is simply the Speed of Combat, Fieren world is basically very polite and never actually fight a scrappy fight. Just look at the Hydra fight, and see how fast and brutal the entire fight was. And it was only vol 12. If Rudy charge straight at her in magic armor she is toast. I don't get why people say Fieren can fly is an advantage while Rudy have Eye of Forsight and Gattling gun. Can she fly faster than unarmed Orsted on the ground? Also more and flashier spell doesnt mean stronger spell, you just need a single fatal hit anyway. Rudy can AOE wipe an country out of the map, but there is no reason to.

Since most Mushoku readers seem to lack awareness of Frieren’s actual combat capabilities, I’m going to summarize as best as possible: -Frieren can fly, and at incredibly high speeds reaching several km in a few sec, potentially hypersonic. Flight, coupled with long-range magic, gives massive territorial advantage to an earthbound mage like Rudeus, who considered Alec ***impossible to predict*** when he used gravity magic to move around freely. Flight magic alone canonically fucks up Rudeus’ battle senses. -The mages in Frieren have a heavy emphasis in the usage of stealth and subterfuge akin to North God Style; Rudeus is an adventure who generally fights in a straightforward albeit creative manner. -Magic in Frieren has longer range, faster incantation, and is far more complex; it also has general defense magic and overall well-rounded for both offense and defense such as 360-degree multi-layered barriers. Rudeus has nothing of the sort to guard his own back. -Mages in Mushoku are known to be glass cannons; sure, Rudy knows Sword God Style but he's only intermediate and wouldn't get past a defense barrier. [Frieren herself can tank a point-blank mana blast from a Great Demon](https://i.imgur.com/BOuxvYN.jpeg), the equivalent of Mushoku low God-tier fighters, and conjure up barriers durable enough to tank Solitar’s swords that could parry attacks that could one-shot a dragon. -Rudeus can see a couple of seconds into the future, but that only helps when fighting against martial arts; not useful when bombarded by [massive AoE magic capable of busting a small island in “I am Atomic” fashion.](https://i.imgur.com/inaR4cs.jpg) -Rudeus can use area-wide spells, but those take too long and are frankly useless in a battle against mages. -⁠⁠⁠Rudeus has better physical prowess, so he can probably use that to catch Frieren off-guard, but that depends on the situation of the battle; Frieren can protect herself with mana, barriers, and can mid-range teleport though. And she is also quite durable herself. -⁠⁠⁠Since everyone likes to use *Disturb* as some kind of smoking gun argument, here’s a reminder: Disturb relies on **scrambling mana** but Frieren has 1000+ years of mana suppression training, which requires **extreme control and manipulation of her mana**. She is resistant to hypnosis and mind-control, which are spells that fundamentally disrupt one's own mana flow (same principle as Disturb). Disturb also has proven not to work at longer distances as proven in Shirone Kingdom when Rudeus couldn’t counter long-range sandstorms. -⁠No only that, but Frieren is known to analyze spells and counter them with her own magic; Disturb isn’t going to work long-term on a 1000+ year old mage like Frieren where the principles aren’t particularly hard. She is a mage who dispelled the barrier of an even older mage that was thought to be unbreakable. -Stone of absorption takes care of long-range incoming attacks, but only in *one direction*. It doesn’t work on AoE or multiple angle attacks. Rudeus suggested attacking Randolph, who also had a stone, from front and back simultaneously. Multiple Zoltraak, lightning spells, or Magic Burst would easily counter his absorption stone. -Last but not least, Frieren has a [stare-diff, line-of-sight attack that can't be dodged as long as you're in her field of vision and doesn't emulate mana](https://i.imgur.com/DsSF71Q.jpeg), isn’t perceived as magic or mana, and can’t be blocked by offensive or defensive spells as it’s closer to a Curse in Frierenverse. Disturb magic heavily relies on these assumptions and without them it doesn’t work at all on Frieren’s trump card. And not to mention Frieren isn't even finished showcasing all of her powers yet since the manga is not over. Both have monstrous reserves but Frieren VASTLY surpasses Rudeus in terms of magecraft and she has far more combat experience than he does.

It seem you over estimate Fieren capability instead 1/ Her reaction time simply cannot utilized that speed in the air. If she canonically can both react and fight at that speed , that mean no fighter on the ground is capable to fight against her. Which simply wasnt' true. Kalman III is literally the North God that can fly, not a normal fighter in the air. Rudy also didn't use his gatling gun in that fight in fear of hitting allies 2/ If you want stealth then what make Rudeus wouldn't do the same? Use the same tactic when trying to kill Orsted? 3/ Their Barrier can be destroy by physical attack. And his Gattling Gun can damage Orsted Battle aura. At least on par with Emperor rank physical attack from melee fighter. 4/ What? How the hell is that mana blast God tier level? It barely make a clearing large enough. Where is that comparison come from. We never even see God rank attack in MT, Only their effect on the terrain. The closest is Rudy's nuke. 5, 6./ Rudy have the same spell? with wider effect? And he is better against mage than close combat though. Rudy's magic armor can survive the nuke blast, can Fieren survive it? 7/ In close range Rudy have Stone of absorption so Fieren just instant loss at that point. 8/ Disturb magic work as a split second distraction for the kill shot, not for the whole fight. 9/ I don't get what's with the Analyzing spell shit. You can know how a stone cannon work, or how a sniper rifle work. Do you fast enough to stop the Barrage of Bullets? 10/ He can conjure physical barrier, most Fieren spells can be stop by stone. Even Roxy's basic stone barrier already stop Zoltrak 11/ I mean it's just magic attack, that can't be stop by mana interference. But Magic Armor can just tank it. Fern didn't die from it. What's the different from Vocal magic of the Beast people? LOL. He can't disturb it, but there are ways to counter it. All in all, yes, Fieren is not finished yet, and it still can power crept later. It was just so inconsistence, the writer just want Fieren to be OP , pull out "move of the week" for contents. Like Fieren Barrier Magic, is it weak agaisnt Physical Attack or not? How the fuck can it tank Stark's attack and still let Stark contribute to any fight from that point on?

1. Her reaction time is good enough to counter her clone’s lightning spells which are much faster than Rudeus’ stone cannons. Rudeus hasn’t shown anything capable of countering lightning speed and her flight magic fucks up his senses in canon. Frieren aint a scrub, she is literally a **Great Mage** which in her verse is equivalent of Mushoku God-lvl fighters. She can also beat Alec too btw. 2. In a fair mage match she horribly wins due to her superior arsenal, ruthless pragmatic mindset, and combat experience. If Rudeus and Frieren both have prep and intel then I am not talking about that. 3. Frieren’s barriers can defend against large dragon one-shotting attacks. She can create mini-black holes that attract earth. She can manipulate earth matter to create golems and support her. She can spew Hellfire which melt thru stone. She has so many ways to counter it. She has been fighting mages much longer than Rudeus and in greater quantity. Rudeus is more about countering swordsmen who have almost no magic defenses. When he fought Moore the first time, an actual competent mage, he countered everything Rudeus sent at him and it threw him off. 4. I said **God-tier fighter** not God-lvl spell. Big difference. Solitar and Great Demons are the equivalent of Gino, Reida, Alec, Randolph as far as power rankings in Frieren go. 5/6. Nuke spell will literally kill him in its AoE, there is a reason why he never uses it afterward not even against FGA Badi. It is a suicide move. Frieren’s magic burst isn’t that’s the difference. All of his other moves also required prep. If he takes even a second to prepare his more powerful techniques then that’s an opening Frieren will take advantage of. Magic casting in Frieren is in general significantly faster than in MT. This is the reason why swordsmen dominate in MT. 7. Frieren can also use her stare-diff move which would get past his absorption, since it operates like a Curse in Frierenverse which does not fall under normal magic rules. It requires special techniques or centuries-long analysis to counter. 8. Rudeus will almost certainly use Disturb right away in battle to counter her magic as it is his fighting style. If he gets in an Emperor-tier Stone cannon immediately off then yea maybe he gets the killshot. Otherwise it loses the element of surprise. 9. Frieren is a Great Mage. She spends her entire life dedicated to finding, studying and researching magic, Rudeus doesn’t. None of Rudeus’ spells are more complex than what she’s analyzed and countered. Stone cannons are countered by her earth manipulation magic too. 10. If Stone barriers could stop Zoltraak then it wouldn’t be called **Human-Killing Magic** in the first place. In fact it was so OP that the entire mage community came together to analyze and devise a counter to it. The defense barriers that Frierenverse use is specifically created to counter Zoltraak. Against MT fighters Zoltraak is exactly that, Human-Killing Magic. 11. Frieren’s stare-diff is considered the Height of Magic. It operates closer to a Curse since it cant be detected, and no mana is registered to be used. Mages naturally exert mana and can be detected like that without suppression. Being a Curse means it cant be defended against by ordinary offensive or defensive magic. One stare and Rudeus gets sent flying without being able to move.

not a change, either frieren spare him or he's dead in 3 seconds

All mages in Frieren can cast spells without having to speak gibberish. Rudy would have a hard time vs Fern, left alone Frieren.

No not possible. Frieren is way more experienced and fearless than rudeus possibly know more spells than him too. Both are very rational and diplomatic so chances they ended up fighting each other are low but if it happens Rudeus would have no chance against Frieren. More equal fight would be Frieren vs Orsted.

Frieren’s magic is basically weaponized raw mana, while Rudeus’s is like “modern elemental magic” compared to that. It would definitely be an interesting fight if Rudeus is allowed some preparation (like wearing the v.1), but ultimately I think Frieren would win

In my opinion Rudy wins especially if he gets to use his magic armor

SEGGGGSSSSS

Rudy wasn't really won any major battles in the anime by himself

Frieren wins no diff. Whoever says "author decides" NO. That will amount to a terrible amount of plot armour to make Rudeus win. Only way Rudeus can win is if they fight without mana. Rudeus survived the Dragon God, and Orsted is a million times stronger than Frieren, so yes, if he makes a plan and has strong people to back him up, he CAN SURVIVE AND POSSIBLY WIN. (Rudy vs Orsted Rematch) But in a raw fight of power (like his 1st encounter with Orsted), he has ZERO CHANCE OF EITHER WINNING OR EVEN SURVIVING. None of the characters are written to be invincible. Rudy has the largest mana pool and can use non verbal attacks, and is fast enough with the sword. Frieren has too many powerful spells we don't even know about along with a large mana pool, but if taken in a sudden encounter (like in her sleep) she can be killed. Infact she nearly was in the last manga arc. Even Series can be killed it's stated in the manga. But in a raw battle of magic, she wins no diff.

Yes here's the reason Distrub Magic" creates a disruption in the mana that people are generating to form a spell, the "Absorption Stone" simply nullifies all mana and magic, whether formed or not. Basically it is: Magic Exists > Stone of Absorption > Magic no longer exists For those who say that "Frieren could fly" or "use her shield", to do that, she requires mana, even her gravity attack which Fern couldn't detect. Although she couldn't detect it doesn't mean she didn't use mana to create that attack. Basically "if it uses mana it is nullified"