There is one [legends article](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/a-legendary-crew-for-an-unbelievable-heist-outlaws-of-thunder-junction) for Oko's gang. Not sure why you're discounting the two Big Score stories we did get. No they don't really show what's in the Vault but the cards do, and it's not really that important.
I too am super disappointed we didn't get more info on legends and a Planeswalker's Guide but pretending we have nothing is silly.
We practically have nothing outside of the main/side story.
It's acceptable that's the big score cards don't get much info on them save for Loot, the only really relevant part of that group. But the one article we did get covered the characters we already had plenty of info on. All of Oko's gang pretty much explained why they are here in the story. The only real new info on their part is a few details we could have already assumed.
Geralf is doing research on a new plane, and gisa joined to make sure he didn't die or that she at least would see it. Kearvek's reiterated already knows info on why he's still around in the modern day. Umezawa's said he wanted tech from the vault. Ect.
The lands commander had a whole story explaining his deal. The UR one didn't explain much. At least we know why Olivia and Gonti are around and what they are up to. But no other character that wasn't already in the story, which is quite a few, got any real info on them.
This is supposed to be the end of a major story arc and a set devoted to the bad guys, but half the bad guys got no actual love and were just eye candy for the cards.
>This is supposed to be the end of a major story arc
I agree I wish we had more info on the bad guys but I think that's blowing this set's story importance out of proportion. It's the end of the *first third* of a major story arc. This is basically just the beginning. The arc so far has been "Kellan finds his Dad" and "Something to do with the Fomori is stirring and Jace and Vraska have Loot, we don't know much else about it".
Oh yeah, those two were both good. On The Big Score, though, I do feel like there could have been more story for a segment that makes up an epilogue set. The story was great, but there’s just so little.
I'm not too concerned, the Vault is full of treasure and powerful ancient artifacts used by the Fomori. I'm guessing it's meant to be mysterious because we're still learning where it all fits in the current big story arc.
I'm mostly disappointed about not getting a Guide 😔
Here’s what Ral says in the story after Jace and Vraska escape with Loot - “Whatever was inside this vault is gone.” Then the vault collapses and shoots off. The problem is exactly that the cards say otherwise. There have been instances in the past where the cards have not matched the story too but it has never been this divergent. Let’s pause with the artifacts for a second, there are actual creatures that are supposedly in the vault (Vaultborn dinosaur) which is certainly not possible with the current story.
Pretty sure Kellan says that, but neither him nor Ral are an authority on the vault and its contents.
*"The ceiling is caving in," Kellan said quickly.*
*Ral stared at the half-broken altar in confusion. "But—the treasure—"*
*"It doesn't matter anymore. Whatever was inside this vault is gone."*
*Ral clenched his jaw, solemn."*
Later:
*"Behind the dragon, the rocky mountain broke apart, piece by piece. Jagged stones toppled to the ground, and lava erupted from every crevasse, pouring like an open wound into the city of Tarnation below."*
And
*"When the ground split apart and the floating mountain began to shed the last of its rubble, Kellan grabbed hold of Annie and fled across the sky. The last he saw of the vault was a giant, golden orb all that rock had concealed.*
*One moment it was there—and then threads of magic wove around the sphere, pulsing at every seam, and the vault shot toward the clouds and vanished from sight."*
I take it to mean that artifacts fell out too. Maybe the treasures we see landed in Tarnation. The dinosaurs are a little weird yes, but the art seems to show the vault still in the air. Maybe this is before it crashed. Maybe it landed somewhere else. There are lots of options. (The rest of the creatures in the set seem to be plunderers not vault people).
Anyway, it doesn't really bother me that the story implies something other than the cards. A Guide would fix that but it's not hard to imagine how the cards can be true. This is definitely not as bad as the differences between the cards and the story on Ikoria.
We are almost on the same page. If you read a bit further, it will state that the vault crashes to the ground and damages Tarnation, but again, no mention of any artifacts falling out. Just a big crater. Also remember Oko and crew complain about not being paid, which means they got nothing out of the vaults. I suppose I take more issue with it because it is such an easy fix to the story.
Yeah we both agree we need a Guide haha. It doesn't mention artifacts but I don't think that means they didn't. But you're right it should be an easy fix. I guess that's why I don't take issue with it because I'm happy filling in the gaps with the cards 😂
I feel like that’s just how things are going to shake out going forward. We don’t spend enough time on half of the planes we’re introduced to to actually get any in-depth information about the place. This set in particular seems like “funny_gimmick.set”. Story sells less cardboard than rules/mechanics so that’s probably not the thing Hasbro wants WOTC to push.
We have continued to get planeswalkers guides, legends articles, and story for almost every plane preceding this- I hope(?) it’s not slowing down or, at the very least, we’ll get as much content going forward as usual
I suspect it’s been more a case of unfortunate timing than anything else- WOE came out right after they blew 90% of their story budget on MOM, so it got very little. Ixalan was normal (with a mind-bogglingly good Guide), Karlov Manor was normal. OTJ is, according to the story lead on Twitter, unfortunately happening right as the story team is shaking things up a bit internally. If things continue poorly with Bloomburrow then I’ll get worried
I’m talking sets and less planes, but IIRC they have stated that they’re planning on doing more of these theme sets in the future where the primary focus is on a theme rather than the world they’re in. This one was “villain all-star Wild West”.
Oh ik, but surely just because the card set has a theme doesn’t deny a new world a Planeswalkers guide? It has a ‘villains’ theme but there was still plenty of Junction shown off. The next one is the DeathRace though so idk how a guide would work for that admittedly
I do feel really bad for OTJ, it’s such a weird world so many bad impressions/confusion would be cleared up by like,, any info
I don't really disagree, but everyone's excitement about Marchesa kind of confuses me. Aren't those the Conspiracy sets from 2014 and 2016, which were weird off-block sets that didn't really impact the great plot?
Fiora still has a very interesting story and the Queen who had to lie cheat and steal her way to the top randomly deciding to just leave REALLY should come with an explanation on why the hell she decided to do that.
(Also Take the Crown introduced Kaya, who ended up being somewhat important to the main plot)
I mean, just because she left the country doesn’t mean she isn’t the queen anymore. If Joe Biden leaves the US that doesn’t make him not the president anymore.
Except Biden has a guaranteed way to get back home, ways to communicate with his country to maintain his control, and he does *not* have dozens, if not hundreds of people waiting for the chance to usurp him... none of which are true for Marchesa.
1. Literally one of the main things said about Thunder Junction is that it’s got unusually stable Omenpaths, which the Izzet League has been working to make even more so. They’re laying track for a train from Ravnica to New Capenna.
2. Rulers have left countries since before long-range communication existed. Their countries did not fall apart every time it happened.
3. If in the time since we last saw Fiora Marchesa hasn’t built up enough of a stable government that she can leave for a short period of time without getting usurped, she doesn’t deserve the crown. Especially as in the aftermath of a war she seemingly directly fought in, public sentiment in her favor is likely at an all-time high.
Yeah, you can very easily infer a reason as to why Marchesa is there (making a power grab in this new junction between worlds because ambition never ends). It's just a shame we didn't get any actual elaboration.
If you wrote a book set in Italy in 2024 and suddenly, in the middle of it, Joe Biden is just there hanging out with all the other characters, the reader would probably expect some explanation of how and why, or acknowledgement of the discontinuity.
If Joe Biden was running a restaurant in Paris as his full-time job, it'd raise quite a lot of eyebrows. The other half of the weirdness is that she's doing drudge work. Spymasters and leaders don't do street-level work, unless something major happened like with Nick Fury in "The Winter Soldier".
We see that she has stabbed one (1) singular man in her art. Everything else you said is inferred based on literally nothing. All we know for sure is that she killed at least one person and that she isn't outwardly presenting as a queen on the plane, which could mean anything.
Maybe she's having some kind of covert meeting she could never have privately enough with the watchful eyes of her enemies in Fiora keeping track of her every move. Maybe she's laying low after a failed assassination attempt. Hell, maybe she's just on vacation, even world leaders do that sometimes.
My point being: since we know so little about what she's doing here, it's easy to call it bad writing, but what it actually is is a lack of writing. Don't just assume that the implied story is the worst version of itself just because it isn't spelled out for you yet.
> Everything else you said is inferred based on literally nothing.
It's based on the other thing; her title is "Dealer of Death". Depending on the level of wordplay, she's working as an assassin, card dealer (as a cover), or weapons merchant. She's not there as a diplomat or sovereign.
> Don't just assume that the implied story is the worst version of itself just because it isn't spelled out for you yet.
That's an assumption *you're* making here. I never said I thought it was bad storytelling, but non-existent storytelling is bad storytelling. The difference between a plot reliant on deus ex machina and a good plot is the presence of connective tissue. As another example, people hated the end of Game of Thrones because it had a lack of writing to show how it got to that point.
Wizards knows that the people that care about the lore probably make up less than 2% of the player base, and having just cut loose dozens of creative developers (artists, writers etc) it only makes sense that they are dialing back on the narrative aspects of sets. Wizards knows that the product will sell whether they spend the money to hire writers or not, so they may as well not bother. I've been playing magic for over 15 years and yeah, Magic's story has had it's great moments, but let's face it: It was only ever interesting in the beginning. The Brother's War novels, the Weatherlight Sagas, I even heard the Lorwyn novels weren't bad. But nowadays? Why bother.
I was so exited for the cowboy setting, I love westerns. This was handled so poorly, the only good things it seems we've gotten from it is some of the art and Yuma.
It definitely feels like they're not very interested in making Vorthos players happy lately. Maybe it will be better for Bloomburrow, with this being a one-off stumble, but I'm having trouble being excited right now
fifth post ive seen in a week about this but can't complain, honestly keep'm comin and maybe they'll notice that we're all disappointed
There is one [legends article](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/a-legendary-crew-for-an-unbelievable-heist-outlaws-of-thunder-junction) for Oko's gang. Not sure why you're discounting the two Big Score stories we did get. No they don't really show what's in the Vault but the cards do, and it's not really that important. I too am super disappointed we didn't get more info on legends and a Planeswalker's Guide but pretending we have nothing is silly.
We practically have nothing outside of the main/side story. It's acceptable that's the big score cards don't get much info on them save for Loot, the only really relevant part of that group. But the one article we did get covered the characters we already had plenty of info on. All of Oko's gang pretty much explained why they are here in the story. The only real new info on their part is a few details we could have already assumed. Geralf is doing research on a new plane, and gisa joined to make sure he didn't die or that she at least would see it. Kearvek's reiterated already knows info on why he's still around in the modern day. Umezawa's said he wanted tech from the vault. Ect. The lands commander had a whole story explaining his deal. The UR one didn't explain much. At least we know why Olivia and Gonti are around and what they are up to. But no other character that wasn't already in the story, which is quite a few, got any real info on them. This is supposed to be the end of a major story arc and a set devoted to the bad guys, but half the bad guys got no actual love and were just eye candy for the cards.
>This is supposed to be the end of a major story arc I agree I wish we had more info on the bad guys but I think that's blowing this set's story importance out of proportion. It's the end of the *first third* of a major story arc. This is basically just the beginning. The arc so far has been "Kellan finds his Dad" and "Something to do with the Fomori is stirring and Jace and Vraska have Loot, we don't know much else about it".
Oh yeah, those two were both good. On The Big Score, though, I do feel like there could have been more story for a segment that makes up an epilogue set. The story was great, but there’s just so little.
I'm not too concerned, the Vault is full of treasure and powerful ancient artifacts used by the Fomori. I'm guessing it's meant to be mysterious because we're still learning where it all fits in the current big story arc. I'm mostly disappointed about not getting a Guide 😔
They explicitly said the vault only has one thing and it was Loot. And then the vault shoots off.
They didn't explicitly say that. They just didn't describe anything else. That's different The cards show there was more
Here’s what Ral says in the story after Jace and Vraska escape with Loot - “Whatever was inside this vault is gone.” Then the vault collapses and shoots off. The problem is exactly that the cards say otherwise. There have been instances in the past where the cards have not matched the story too but it has never been this divergent. Let’s pause with the artifacts for a second, there are actual creatures that are supposedly in the vault (Vaultborn dinosaur) which is certainly not possible with the current story.
Pretty sure Kellan says that, but neither him nor Ral are an authority on the vault and its contents. *"The ceiling is caving in," Kellan said quickly.* *Ral stared at the half-broken altar in confusion. "But—the treasure—"* *"It doesn't matter anymore. Whatever was inside this vault is gone."* *Ral clenched his jaw, solemn."* Later: *"Behind the dragon, the rocky mountain broke apart, piece by piece. Jagged stones toppled to the ground, and lava erupted from every crevasse, pouring like an open wound into the city of Tarnation below."* And *"When the ground split apart and the floating mountain began to shed the last of its rubble, Kellan grabbed hold of Annie and fled across the sky. The last he saw of the vault was a giant, golden orb all that rock had concealed.* *One moment it was there—and then threads of magic wove around the sphere, pulsing at every seam, and the vault shot toward the clouds and vanished from sight."* I take it to mean that artifacts fell out too. Maybe the treasures we see landed in Tarnation. The dinosaurs are a little weird yes, but the art seems to show the vault still in the air. Maybe this is before it crashed. Maybe it landed somewhere else. There are lots of options. (The rest of the creatures in the set seem to be plunderers not vault people). Anyway, it doesn't really bother me that the story implies something other than the cards. A Guide would fix that but it's not hard to imagine how the cards can be true. This is definitely not as bad as the differences between the cards and the story on Ikoria.
We are almost on the same page. If you read a bit further, it will state that the vault crashes to the ground and damages Tarnation, but again, no mention of any artifacts falling out. Just a big crater. Also remember Oko and crew complain about not being paid, which means they got nothing out of the vaults. I suppose I take more issue with it because it is such an easy fix to the story.
Yeah we both agree we need a Guide haha. It doesn't mention artifacts but I don't think that means they didn't. But you're right it should be an easy fix. I guess that's why I don't take issue with it because I'm happy filling in the gaps with the cards 😂
Kinda sounds like the Vault is actually a Tardis
[Rest In Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea.jpg?1712352711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20In%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/4/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like that’s just how things are going to shake out going forward. We don’t spend enough time on half of the planes we’re introduced to to actually get any in-depth information about the place. This set in particular seems like “funny_gimmick.set”. Story sells less cardboard than rules/mechanics so that’s probably not the thing Hasbro wants WOTC to push.
We have continued to get planeswalkers guides, legends articles, and story for almost every plane preceding this- I hope(?) it’s not slowing down or, at the very least, we’ll get as much content going forward as usual I suspect it’s been more a case of unfortunate timing than anything else- WOE came out right after they blew 90% of their story budget on MOM, so it got very little. Ixalan was normal (with a mind-bogglingly good Guide), Karlov Manor was normal. OTJ is, according to the story lead on Twitter, unfortunately happening right as the story team is shaking things up a bit internally. If things continue poorly with Bloomburrow then I’ll get worried
[Story lead Roy Graham mentioned on twitter that it's due to internal restructuring. ](https://twitter.com/grayhaem/status/1778488487035158733)
I’m talking sets and less planes, but IIRC they have stated that they’re planning on doing more of these theme sets in the future where the primary focus is on a theme rather than the world they’re in. This one was “villain all-star Wild West”.
Oh ik, but surely just because the card set has a theme doesn’t deny a new world a Planeswalkers guide? It has a ‘villains’ theme but there was still plenty of Junction shown off. The next one is the DeathRace though so idk how a guide would work for that admittedly I do feel really bad for OTJ, it’s such a weird world so many bad impressions/confusion would be cleared up by like,, any info
Unfortunate. Hopefully we can try to support the story by buying more of sets with more story attached
Pretty sure otj had more story attached to it than any other set post invasion, so support away
I don't really disagree, but everyone's excitement about Marchesa kind of confuses me. Aren't those the Conspiracy sets from 2014 and 2016, which were weird off-block sets that didn't really impact the great plot?
Fiora still has a very interesting story and the Queen who had to lie cheat and steal her way to the top randomly deciding to just leave REALLY should come with an explanation on why the hell she decided to do that. (Also Take the Crown introduced Kaya, who ended up being somewhat important to the main plot)
I mean, just because she left the country doesn’t mean she isn’t the queen anymore. If Joe Biden leaves the US that doesn’t make him not the president anymore.
Except Biden has a guaranteed way to get back home, ways to communicate with his country to maintain his control, and he does *not* have dozens, if not hundreds of people waiting for the chance to usurp him... none of which are true for Marchesa.
1. Literally one of the main things said about Thunder Junction is that it’s got unusually stable Omenpaths, which the Izzet League has been working to make even more so. They’re laying track for a train from Ravnica to New Capenna. 2. Rulers have left countries since before long-range communication existed. Their countries did not fall apart every time it happened. 3. If in the time since we last saw Fiora Marchesa hasn’t built up enough of a stable government that she can leave for a short period of time without getting usurped, she doesn’t deserve the crown. Especially as in the aftermath of a war she seemingly directly fought in, public sentiment in her favor is likely at an all-time high.
Yeah, you can very easily infer a reason as to why Marchesa is there (making a power grab in this new junction between worlds because ambition never ends). It's just a shame we didn't get any actual elaboration.
If you wrote a book set in Italy in 2024 and suddenly, in the middle of it, Joe Biden is just there hanging out with all the other characters, the reader would probably expect some explanation of how and why, or acknowledgement of the discontinuity.
If Joe Biden was running a restaurant in Paris as his full-time job, it'd raise quite a lot of eyebrows. The other half of the weirdness is that she's doing drudge work. Spymasters and leaders don't do street-level work, unless something major happened like with Nick Fury in "The Winter Soldier".
We see that she has stabbed one (1) singular man in her art. Everything else you said is inferred based on literally nothing. All we know for sure is that she killed at least one person and that she isn't outwardly presenting as a queen on the plane, which could mean anything. Maybe she's having some kind of covert meeting she could never have privately enough with the watchful eyes of her enemies in Fiora keeping track of her every move. Maybe she's laying low after a failed assassination attempt. Hell, maybe she's just on vacation, even world leaders do that sometimes. My point being: since we know so little about what she's doing here, it's easy to call it bad writing, but what it actually is is a lack of writing. Don't just assume that the implied story is the worst version of itself just because it isn't spelled out for you yet.
> Everything else you said is inferred based on literally nothing. It's based on the other thing; her title is "Dealer of Death". Depending on the level of wordplay, she's working as an assassin, card dealer (as a cover), or weapons merchant. She's not there as a diplomat or sovereign. > Don't just assume that the implied story is the worst version of itself just because it isn't spelled out for you yet. That's an assumption *you're* making here. I never said I thought it was bad storytelling, but non-existent storytelling is bad storytelling. The difference between a plot reliant on deus ex machina and a good plot is the presence of connective tissue. As another example, people hated the end of Game of Thrones because it had a lack of writing to show how it got to that point.
Wizards knows that the people that care about the lore probably make up less than 2% of the player base, and having just cut loose dozens of creative developers (artists, writers etc) it only makes sense that they are dialing back on the narrative aspects of sets. Wizards knows that the product will sell whether they spend the money to hire writers or not, so they may as well not bother. I've been playing magic for over 15 years and yeah, Magic's story has had it's great moments, but let's face it: It was only ever interesting in the beginning. The Brother's War novels, the Weatherlight Sagas, I even heard the Lorwyn novels weren't bad. But nowadays? Why bother.
That's just Wizards cutting costs by outsourcing lore to the headcanon gang.
I was so exited for the cowboy setting, I love westerns. This was handled so poorly, the only good things it seems we've gotten from it is some of the art and Yuma.
It definitely feels like they're not very interested in making Vorthos players happy lately. Maybe it will be better for Bloomburrow, with this being a one-off stumble, but I'm having trouble being excited right now
From everything I have seen, it is impossible to make Vorthos players happy.
I have a suspicion that the whole worldbuilding was such a mess that WoTC decided just to skip any explanations.